Brandon Sanderson - 318R - #8 (Magic Systems)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Brand new for 2016 are Brandon Sanderson's writing lectures at BYU. This lecture was delivered on March 3, 2016.
Filmed by Jon Deering and Earl Cahill, edited by Earl Cahill (@spackest - where I will announce when new videos go public).
Table of contents:
02:22 origin of Sanderson's laws
08:27 Sanderson's first law
23:35 hard and soft magic systems
26:15 Sanderson's second law
41:44 Sanderson's third law
50:58 Sanderson's zeroth law
57:20 class questions
Authors Mentioned:
Terry Pratchet - amzn.to/2beC61Q
Orson Scott Card - amzn.to/2b5uA8X
J. R. R. Tolkien - amzn.to/2beCnSf
Works Mentioned:
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Logo by Isaac Stewart, intro music by David Doxey.
Cameras / lenses
- Panasonic G7 (42.5mm, F1.7)
- Sony A6000 (Rokinon Cine 85mm T1.5)
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- Canon 70D (Sigma 18-35, F1.8)
Audio
- Sanken COS-11D
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- Tascam DR-40 recorder
If you love, love, love the videos you are more than welcome to say thanks in one or more of the following ways
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© 2016 Skepteon Media
19:19 Shoutout to the guy with the pen in his mouth who just keeps it there for 15 seconds with the camera on him the whole time. And when you think he's reaching his hand up to take it out, nope, he just readjusts it in his mouth. What a legend.
I love that
hahahaha it was just a random part of the scene for me, but because of your comment it is now truly an epic moment
he even looks straight into the camera and you can see the flash in his eyes when he commits to the pen
Write a character that does that
Hoid
People actually stop going to his class? I've gotten annoyed at hour long videos because they're TOO short lol I could listen to his ideas on writing a book for hours on end.
yeah that also immediately caught my attention and made me upset. How the hell can you skip this brilliant man's lecture
You should check out Writing Excuses, a podcast where he and a few other writers talk about writing and getting published
You've been in college before. You know how it goes. I can't think of a single class where like everybody who was showing up the first couple weeks was still showing up the last few weeks. My last semester, my econ class would have like maybe 40 people at most on any given day, then on exam day there's like 200+ people easy. that professor was boring as shit though.
It's a 1 credit elective and he gives everyone an A unless they are godawful.
strange he can spend so much time teaching AND writing very long books, while some unnamed other authors can barely finish one book a decade
Not gonna lie, your magic systems are some of the reasons why I'm so engrossed. I love theorizing about how the books will play out based on what you've already laid out for us.
Brandon's magic systems and worldbuilding are the reasons I love him as much as I do. His stories are outstanding, but to me, seeing how the magic works ona fundamental level, and how that affects societies is the meat of the thing.
The reveal of the bridgemens true purpose was great, but the reveal on why lighteyes rule, while darkeyes are ruled was just fantastic to me. One is a story beat, one that I've seen before, the other gives insight to society, both real and fictional.
His magic systems are absolutely fascinating and he uses them so creatively
"we only know so much because we know how little we know about our magic"
huh. i like this.
Billy Alarie
If you’ve read warbreaker, that’s almost an exact quote from Vasher.
FYI the ring’s temptation is exponentially proportional to the person’s power, a wizard or elf who is already ridiculously powerful is super tempted, the eagles were on the power level of dragons and wizards.
That said since that wasn’t in movies, it is in the Silmarillion, it is one of those things that should have been added say at the counsel of Elrond, so people would understand.
Too bad the Silmarillion is essential to understanding his work, hardly anyone reads it.
For instance, Gandalf who knows the temptation is proportional to power, could've said this to some powerful elves from Elrond's court that wanted to join the fellowship. He could denounce them on those terms, and it could signify that these unnamed, potentially powerful people aren't going to be as powerful as these forces and named evils that pursue the ring, and give the idea of it in their hands more and more weight.
I always thought about how interesting it would've been, that before the council for the fellowship was held, Elrond could've asked for or summoned the eagles to aid in the ring's journey, and when he reveals this to the circle Gandalf's face could turn ill, as he scolds Elrond for exposing the location of the ring to such powerful, ill-fit ring bearers. That could've expedited their departure from Rivendel, as they'd have to retreat and travel secretly not just from Sauron's forces, but the very adept-at-traveling eagles, as Gandalf thinks their acceptance to "help" would just be another ploy to obtain the one ring.
@Romano Coombs agreed; i'm all for highly complex and difficult to understand fantasy worlds but for god's sake at least include it in the actual books!!!! i'd rather have a much longer and more confusing read than have to read a separate guide just to get the context of the plot
"Why did you get chosen to wield the ring?"
"I was chosen for of all the men, elves, dwarves and beasts of the land... all the creatures of the seas... the ageless ents of the forest.... of them all:
I, am the weakest little bitch"
Counterpoint: Tom Bombadil
Gosh. Whenever I watch these I get super jealous. At the end whenever he asks if anyone has questions, I'm like "me me me I want to ask questions too!" XD
Berrymouse ask them here and someone else could probably answer!
@@Eccentrick218 yeah, and the rest of us could have fun thinking about your questions too!
It's good the entire class is also shown. Not just Brandon.
Makes you feel you're really part of the discussion.
Watching this I could not stop thinking about the Nen system in the HunterxHunter anime, by Yoshihiro Togashi. A magic system that allows the character to create his or her own magical ability based on his or her creativity and even invent their own limitations to their ability in order to make it even more powerful. It's obvious that this freedom is only possible by following certain rules in the system, and it's these rules and limitations that move most of the plot. This is certainly one of the best systems ever created.
I would say it is the best magic system ever
Best comment
@S. DBZ is pretty hard too, it’s basically how muscles work - break it down to make it stronger. But it does have escalation, not as bad as YuYu Hakusho or One Piece though. Those two are really broken.
Nen is the best power system in all of fiction
Okay I know this is a very old comment but it just sold me. People have been trying to push me to watch HunterxHunter ever since it came out but the trailer just didn't look appealing to me, but that kind of magic system sure does!
"Eagles can't take you because of reasons." Had me laughing so hard 😂
Obviously because Sauron must not know what they’re trying to do because he’s powerful enough to stop them otherwise. That said, fair enough.
I watched a video on this. Supposedly the eagle were extremely powerful (like right below sauron strong) and so if Gandalf shouldn't be near the ring, they definitely should not.
Or, to put simply... “Journey before destination.”
The eagles explain in the Hobbit that they avoid flying near humans because they'll shoot them with their bows. And that's just a few humans. So imagine what armies of orcs, determined to put a stop to them would do? That's not even including the Witch King on his fellbeast.
@@miguelthealpaca8971 im pretty sure the eagles are more than capable of flying over bow range and if they where able to sneak they could avoid the witch king.
This is like making a good riddle: before you know the solution it should seem impossible, but after you guess or hear the solution it should seem obvious. I think that's the feeling of satisfaction Brandon is describing. The feeling of changing from "I have no idea" to "of course, that's the only way, why didn't I think of that before?!"
Rule #1 (around 10:45) makes me think a lot about Avatar: The Last Airbender and how Toph discovers metalbending based off of what she already knows about the applications of Earthbending and seismic sense.
YES that was such a good development of the atla magic system; if it hadn't happened i would have been bothered because metal naturally occurs in earth so it would contradict the magic system for metalbending to be entirely impossible. plus toph got to be a badass
43:54 he just perfectly explained the problem with "no man´s sky"
Yeah as soon as he said that I thought "he played no man's sky and felt betrayed just like all the rest of us
The vid litterally released a day after the lunch of NMS LOL
Yeah, I was not expecting the No Man's Sky shade here.
^ this guy loves no mans sky
No Man's Sky is great now.
Here are my notes I took in case anyone wants a summary (or to cheat I guess):
*Magic Systems Fundamentals:*
- If the reader doesn't understand the magic system's rules, there are no rules
- Sanderson's laws
1.) Your ability to solve problems with magic in a *satisfying way* is directly proportional to how well the reader understands the magic
- get the reader to react to the magic how you want
- the magic is explainable
2.) Flaws and limitations are more intereting than the powers themselves
- flaw = weakness; limitation = exclusive usage
- What can't the magic do? What is it bound to? etc.
- Limitations:
- cost (economic, emotional, physical, mental, social, moral, etc.)
- boundaries (specific parameters, "yes, but-")
3.) Go *deeper* into a magic, instead of wider
- quality over quantity
- if the magic plays a *minor* role, deal with the current characters using it, then leave it alone
- you can write a sequel that delves deeper into it
- it's "okay" to write rules of magic when you need to... but you SHOULD try what you've already done, expand it further, and *make it work* for the situation
- set this up ahead of time in revisions!!
- you can leave holes in or chip away at your rules
- this leaves wonder and mystery, ehich can be enhanced through foreshadowing
0.) Always err om the side of what ks *awesome*
- "This is cool, let's make it work!"
- don't write yourself out of what was the awesome concept that started the idea
- do it cuz it's cool
* These laws are storytelling laws/rules-of-thumb adapfed for music
- What if the magic doesn't work, in the story, as it supposedly should?
- That can work! Ask yourself "what emotion am I looking for in the readers with *this disappearance* of magic?" "What is it *doing* for me?"
- What if the magic is unlimited and overwhelming?
- make the reader scared that the character will be forced to use the magic.
- if they do use the magic, *make the bad thing happen*
- think Ice King/Simon from Adventure Time
- Is too many flaws/limitations possible?
- yes, 100%
- don't make the reader keep track of the rules on a spreadsheet
- the best magics are the ones that are both elegant powers and elegant limitations
*magic, not music!!
I'm reading a book by Brandon Sanderson while listening to Brandon Sanderson talking about how to build a magic system like Brandon Sanderson. nice.
I have become a HUGE Brandon Sanderson fan in the past few years. His plans for the cosmere are so ambitious though. I hope he lives long enough to finish the entire thing but it seems unlikely as it would mean a total of something like 140 books.
"In the end, the Cosmere Cycle will include between 32-36 books"
I thought he said there were to be 13 series in total, not including any short stories or other odd works, and the each series would include 10 books.
Can you link me to some more info, or did I miss it in the part of this video I sipped through? :)
Misborn and Stormlight Archives together when they are complete will be a solid 60%+ of the Cosmere I believe
to come:
at least 7 more books in the mistborn series.
an elantris sequel
dragonsteel
warbreaker sequel
3 more stormlight archive books (split into who knows how many)
another novella
unsure about white sand
@@heliopyre 7 more mistborn? :o
Love how he says, “Tolkien nerds don’t kill me” and then immediately gets attacked😂😂
I love his magic systems BECAUSE they have rules, we don't always know them, sometimes we do but is CONSISTENT! :D And the "wonder" comes from how his characters use their magic and their limits creatively :)
@Muto I love the Mistborn system the best, all three arts make so much sense and I still can't pick which I want more- ferrochemy or allomacy, did you have a favorite?
@Muto first of all I shamelessly want to suggest you read mistborn xD (it's the first book I recommend to everyone), but my favorite magic system is Mistborn and second would be Full Metal Alchemist, both are similar in that it has clear limits and costs, limitations, creativity, and skill needed
@Muto In Mistborn the system is all about pushing and pulling, for physical attributes, mental attributes, senses, and pushing and pulling metal. I couldn't explain it all well shortly but a lot like FMA every action has a predictable reaction. (I am a big fan of FMA in general xD thus why I built a full scale real metal suit of Alphonse lol I'm working on a suit of plate from Sandersons The Way of Kings series now
I remember on the commentaries Peter kept asking 'why can't the eagles just take them?' and his wife and friend (the other co-writer) would keep saying 'because of the Nazgûl', and Peter would say 'oh, yeah, that's right'. Hhaha, best nine hours of my life (or however long the extended comms are for the LOTR, but now it is time to buy the Hobbit 15 disc box set).
There's another reason why.
Ever wondered why the RING OF POWER, only grants invisibility?
It amplifies the user's power. A hobbit is the least among us, and so had the least power to be manipulated by it.
When pseudo dieties like the Eagles (which are quite literally at the level of angel) and Gandalf (old jesus) refuse to touch or carry it, it would cause a cataclysm of unbreakable temptation and power.
Someone found this explanation in relation to Tolkien's letters, and it makes way more sense than just 'because Nazgul'.
I agree, every single one of those extras was worth watching for LOTR's extendeds. Even the documentary about the kid filmmaker who died and ended up inspiring the song at the end of the series.
These people are so lucky... I would sacrifice many things to be present at one lecture by Brandon!
There is a show called Once Upon a Time. It's an amalgamate of classic fairy tales where all the characters are mixed into one general story. And some of the rules to the magic are, "every curse can be broken." and also, "All magic comes at a price".. and that is what makes the conflict more interesting. What must be done to break the curse, and what are the repercussions for the magic that people choose to use? and, why are they choosing to use the magic? and those rules don't really limit the directions that things can go, or everything that can be done through magic.
It has grown a bit stale, though.
Josiah Klein Because they chose to go wider instead of deeper! ;)
I know nobody will read this but as I am just starting my writing career I would say what I consider my method of making magic systems: I use one seemingly unimportant character from a video game, book, or some comic book and I create a totally deeper lore for that character to the point that I make their existing power complex. For example Teemo's stealth and darts, Darius's bloodlust (I treat as magic), Alpha (VG) infinite reboot and scanning ability. And I over extend the abilities to create a group of people using their skills.
Why with videogames though?
Sanderson is one of the best in constructing a magic system.
LordMichaelRahl Patrick Rothfuss has a great one as well, but Sanderson has created so many of them that are fun and interesting that it makes him king.
Exactly.
@@stephengrant4841 How do we get magic to get the f-cker to finish his own trilogy? I mean, he's on youtube D&D shows instead of writing, for years now
Stephen Grant Rothfuss’ is largely based on voodoo. The power of words might come from the Judaic/Christian beliefs that miracles are granted by speaking them into existence (eg: “you could say to this mountain, ‘move from here to there,’ and it would move”), or he may have never heard that verse before and he came up with it. The sympathy, however, (which is the much more prevalent magic system) follows almost the exact same rules as voodoo. Don’t get me wrong, Rothfuss wrote a great story, but the magic is hardly original.
@@moedelaun some of the best magic systems are based in familiar concepts; that's what makes them immersive to the reader. every magic system needs a hook- with mistborn, the hook is the sheer fantasy of leaping through the air; with the stormlight archive, the hook is all the different possibilities of soulcasting and the mystery of it all (combined with a world so vastly different from ours that you can't help but be fascinated). magic based on real concepts such as voodoo have a built in hook: people read because they want to see the author's unique take on magic they've already heard of before. why do you think there are SO MANY "greek demigod discovers godly powers" books? we've seen it before with actual greek myths, and we certainly saw it from rick riordan, so it's only natural that readers would be interested in seeing other takes on greek myths and magic. i'd imagine the same goes for voodoo, though i haven't read rothfuss (should i? the spoken language aspect sounds fascinating) so i'm probably not the best person to talk about his magic system.
wow that was a long reply lol sorry! i get really into talking about magic systems
SHOUTOUT to Camera Panda for uploading these vids!! Doesnt hurt to have a youtuber providing Brandon's lectures for budding writers!
Next video should be up next week. I believe there were four more lectures filmed that I plan on putting up. Enjoy!
Yip, no new lecture this week. If all goes well, Brandon Mull's lecture will go up next Tuesday, August 23rd
In some ways, watching these a second time now that I've read Mistborn and part of the Stormlight Archive is more interesting. There are certainly things I understand better now that I've seen them in Brandon's work.
44:00 lol No man's Sky
lmao exactly what i thought
omg that's so true
True. It makes me think of dunkey's lisa review.
more like no mans lie!
just what i was thinking
Oh man a story were the main character is in a world where the magic is fading away but their magic is getting stronger. At some point everyone panics and blames them. At first everyone else has the upper hand and then the tables turn.
Ian Fyffe thank you. I’ll send you a signed copy.
bossaddict08 send me another signed copy thanx.
@@jorgenavarrocruces7149 whats the book called
Book 1: The Nervous Table, Book 2: Turning of the Table, Book 3: Flipping of the Table
@@ethanbehee3942 🤣
Pleasant surprise, been waiting for this. Im not writing myself, but am fascinated by these lectures. They make me enjoy my first reading of Way of Kings even more :) thanks for this!
Love Sanderson. Thanks for uploading this series of videos. Gonna check them all out. And of course, thank you to brandon sanderson for this and much more
10:17 Vin vs Shan in The Final Empire. Vin vs Zane in The Well of Ascension. Bravo Brandon.
I've been designing a very weird magic system. It's basically a super rigid hard magic system, borderline mundane in it's scientific rigidity (mundane as our modern world would be to someone of the 1800s) but with an underlying mysterious soft magic system. So it's sort of inside out? So happy to see a long video just for magic systems!
I wonder what Sanderson would think of Hunter x Hunter's nen.
I bet he would love it, its quite similar to what he likes to do. I know because i have also wrote a magic sistem and there is some conceptual connections that i found between Nen and Stormlight.
Its a brilliant system. Best anime shounen Ive seen
Well best power system in any media, it's brilliant, Togashi is a genius
Tora Blaze Harry Potter’s magic isnt that great. It’s hand waving and language. Like go ahead and like Harry Potter more but don’t be crazy and act like it’s one genius it’s not or two super complex which it’s not. It fits the story it’s in that’s good enough. You are dismissed Pothead
Brian Lowe ooh thank you!
I clicked on this video thinking he was gonna give a lecture on ancient esoteric occult magic rituals...I think my YT algorithm might be more lost in the rabbit hole than I am. I still listened though, it was cool I learned something
As an aspiring writer these videos have been great. It's really made me look at what I put into my story with new eyes
The talk of "dungeons" reminds me of the difference between Legend of Zelda and Skyrim. Open world is cool and all that, but a series of between 8 and 16 dungeons which are really well thought out and fun to explore is much more interesting than the countless Dwemer ruins, Ancient Nordic tombs, bandit forts, and random, underground tunnels which are all over the landscape. Although, those random underground tunnels full of Falmer did get pretty cool, with their giant, glowing mushrooms.
Black Reach is so fucking annoying...
That’s my biggest complaint with Breath of the Wild, the “dungeons” suck.
Brandon
What about dragons?
FUCK THEM!!
FUCK EVERY DRAGON, DRACCUS, LIZARD AND THE WHOLE REPTILE SPECIES!!!!
@@JuanAntonioGarciaHeredia
I'd really rather not, but you do you, friend.
DaBezz that’s a good point but I think you’re forgetting about
SWORDS!!
Hey.... machicolations....
@@JuanAntonioGarciaHeredia Found the bard
I can't imagine how amazing having Brandon Sanderson as my DM would be. Please be my DM!
I'm impressed: he's a giant in fantasy-adventure but seems so approachable.
I love the costs in magic systems; it forces one to be creative and in videogames entire builds can be build around it.
Most games for example use a magicka pool that is dipped in order to cast spells; the more magicka you have, the more, better and cost worthy spells you can cast.
In Skyrim your magicka can become obsolute when your enchanting is high enough and magic becomes free to cast (I found that boring).
But economic coud also play a part, with a bit of tweaking; scrolls are one time shoot and forget, can be cast by anyone, but cost money to buy or resources to make. The same goes for staves, which have more uses, but will run out and need recharging with gems that cost money to buy or knowledge to be filled up.
And then there is blood magic; where your limited (but often stunned) magicka pool can be filled up by sacrificing your own life forces, which takes time to recharge and can even be life-threatening when not used carefully.
I love that type of variety.
Sanderson is the most charismatic nerd I've ever seen. I'm swooning.
"We introduce one of three things to the story:
1. The thing that takes all his powers away
2. Someone just as strong as he is
3. A woman"
Woof, just imagine if we had all three combined in one.
Will Smith in Hancock
@@matthewthompson6455 basically yeah
You mean a wife?
3rd option is only 1 when you think about it
Darkseid, but on estrogen and made out of kryptonite. . .
at 36:00 - I think The Never Ending Story 2 had a really good one, where every wish he made it would cost him one of his cherished memories or something like that !
He could have wished to get his memories back, or, "i wish id never lose my cherished memories after making a wish"
brandon sandersons writing style is so satisfying and his magic systems are so fun to get lost in as a reader
I'm a video game designer... MAGIC HAS RULES! It better be tactical. It better be fun! It better be visually aesthetic.
Sometimes I do find that I like video-game like mechanics in stories too, especially balancing etc. But even video games (at least more storylike ones) have magic that is only useful for the plot and can't really be understood.
Keegster I think he’s talking more about rpgs in which your character can only use magic at a cost, and the stronger the spell is, the higher the cost is
@@keegster7167 but you can always fix them to be understood
But then if in books magic had rules like in video games, wouldn't that be derivative? Every medium has its own rules too...
Storytelling Genova not at all because only really recently during the 21th century has magic in novels start really have rules and limitations on what it can really.
A lot of magic systems in books, let’s do whatever the hell you want and not seem to have any limits as there seems to be a spell for any situation.
YES! I've been refreshing all day yesterday and today waiting for this!
Me too haha
Me too. And it's a great topic to boot.
Me too!.
1:03:12 I like that he uses "sapient" instead of "sentient". People too often mistake the latter for the former, like saying animals aren't sentient when they are. Most animals are sentient, the one's that aren't would prolly be corals and stuff like that. But animals like pigs or cows definitely are. While humans are also sentient, what we uniquely are is sapient.
I started watching the 2020 videos, and now checking this out. I don't even think the lectures get better over time. They're just all really, really good.
when Brandon was talking about error on the side of awesomeness was anyone else thinking about the final empire? I was remembering Kelsiers last fight with the inquisitors.
It was definitely one of the most engaging fight scenes I've ever read. I was on the edge of my seat reading a book of all things
I've only seen the Extended Editions of Lord of the Rings, so I'm always baffled to hear what got cut out of the theatrical release. Most of it seems to have been super important.
i hate when there are no rules in magic, fantasy, even superhero stories. you need rules, even if theyre not explicitly stated, because otherwise you end up contradicting yourself and if your reader was paying attention (which you want them to) their suspension of disbelief is destroyed.
doctor who (and a lot of time travel shows, to be fair) has become really bad about this. the rules that were established were thrown to the wayside in favor of plot, but then the really fanatic watchers became so irritated by this that they just quit.
but how could a panel of established authors say you can't have rules! no rule sounds incredibly boring: ie, they never get tired, the magic has no restrictions, there are no obstacles ok so where is the plot.
that doesnt happen often because in reality, almost every magic system has rules whether the author outright writes them down or not.
totally agreed. thanks for that ;D
Christy S Plus it's entirely possible for magic to give you a sense of wonder *and* have rules. My personal favorite example of this is the Stone in the Secret of NIMH. We dont know where it came from, how Jonothan Brisby got it, or how it works. All we know is "Courage of the heart is very rare. The stone has a power when it's there." Mrs Brisby demonstrates courage of the heart by holding onto the Stone even when it burns her, to save her kids, and as a result, the Stone saves her kids. We both have the foreshadowed rules followed, and we have an incredible sense of the unknown at the same time.
"No rules" does not mean that the magic has no way of operating or working. It generally just means that there are very few rules and very usually even less is shown to the reader. Example from the video: Gandalf. In the Silmarillion, the rules to his magic are clearly shown. But for the sake of Lord of the Rings there are no rules. But his magic still has rules and a way of working. Even if it is never explained to the reader. So no rules" is more like "only a few rules and/or only a few of them revealed to the reader".
Also, about Doctor Who: It does not throw the rules to the side. It relies on the rules of the old show. But when it does something different, it is the new show establishing a retroactive change to those old rules. Rather than being thrown to the side, the viewers are being told about a difference between the original show and the reboot.
They actually have rules even if they dont know, they want the magic to do something specific and it does that, and the sense of wonder might come to the reader from discovering what it can do. In The King of Elfland's Daughter, a masterpiece of classic fantasy literature, the focus is mostly on cool descriptions of the magic stuff, with a lot of enfasis on color and abstract ideas. But even there we are told that the King of Elfland (wich might or might not be really an elf) has 3 runes that are extremely powerful and can beat all the runes that the main character possess, and we discover what this runes do as the book advances, and the marvelous descriptions bring the magic to life, wich makes it unnecesary to explain it, but there are rules there.
I am pretty sure 100% of people who say that 'magic should not have rules at all' don't understand right what *Rule* means in this context. They must have some misconceptions because if you really look into this topic you are bound to find Some rules in every medium that presented magic. Whenever there are no 'shovedinyourface' rules they exist behind the stage, somewhere in the author's draft or mind. Because otherwise it's uninteresting to watch anyone even struggle, because why would they, obviously.
Though, there can be many ways how those people might have misunderstood the word 'rules'. Maybe they thought that you have to tell them to the reader directly, or they believed it has to be explained through pseudo-science.
Also, there is a huge difference between modern writing and old fairy tales. Today, fantasy and magic in writing is taken seriously and has a huge fanbase - full of very analytical and often intelligent *adults*. While in the past, magic in old-wives stories was there to entertain and teach children who didn't question the 'logic' behind it.
That's also a possible reason why people might be confused about the rule setup. But those have been there for quite some time, even if they were unvoiced laws that some just had in their guts, ya know what i mean?
Anyone notice that someone was goofing off in class, and Brandon did the world's best "pay attention" move *without* being mean? It was adorable
im glad brandon said that about uprooted, bc ive heard a lot of ppl critizise it for its magic system and i always thought it was unfair. glad brandon confirmed that for me lol
Someone talked about magic vanishing, and it made me think of one of my favorite fantasy, Dawn of Wonders, because it doesn't bring up magic for real until near the end and together with the title, it gives a sense of magic being created or the origins of this worlds magic, which I have never read before.
That's something that I always find curious.Origin of magic, spells and other stuff in-Universe. It also kind of happens in Stand Still Stay Silent webcomic. A kind of post-apocalypse version and the magic has more like... re-appeared. In two different and mutually exclusive styles.
I read that book ages ago on Kindle, and could never find it or mention of it anywhere else. Iirc, there's a major cliffhanger at the end of the book, and I could never find a sequel
whoa that sounds like a book i'll have to check out! i love magic origin stories; that's actually why i love sanderson so much. he incorporates origin of magic lore into his books and it makes the magic systems more interesting because usually the source of the power is explained in so much depth that you can't tear your eyes off the page
“Next week you’ll have a sub…who the hell can sub a class for Brandon Sanderson?!”
I have only ever seen the extended edition i had no idea the ghost thing wasn't set up at all.
I LOVED hearing this. I am trying to write a sci-fi/fantasy novel, and this was very helpful. Many of these were concepts I understood, but hearing them explained by Sanderson helped me to grasp them more thoroughly.
Writing prompt:Several authors discover that writing IS magic, and these lessons from Brandon Sanderson are the "rules" for this magic. Eventually they each get writer's block and their understanding of the rules of magic are directly proportional to how well they can overcome their writer's block in an interesting way.
What people need to understand about magic systems most of the time in anime (specifically Shonen) is that the magic system is primarily used for combat/ fight scenes.
Like Bleach, Naruto, HxH, Shaman King, and even FMA uses its “magic” for fight scenes to make fights more unique and engaging.
Hell I'd even say stories like Harry Potter, Eragon, The Dresden Files eventually use all their creative magic stuff for fights. All of their spells and casting inevitably gets used for offensive and defensive battles maneuvers and tactics that you see in climax of each book/arc or ending of a series.
It's not a bad thing in anyway, just an observation that these things are used to fight and kill their inevitable enemy.”
When he talks about superhero stories having hard magic systems it actually kind of blew my mind. That's why their powers typically never change or improve, as say, someone's power would in My Hero Academia, another piece of superhero media. That's why I thought MHA was initially refreshing, but as the story continued, it became frustrating when I noticed it was impossible to tell what the limitations or boundaries of one's quirk was.
Now that I think about it, that's what makes Hitchiker's guide to the Galaxy so fantastic for me. Apart from having geniously funny scenes, there was a super computer knew the specs to build something that would give them the ultimate question... All you need is time (like the scotty thing he was talking about). But time runs out 5 minutes short of victory. As the reader I was feeling as silly as the main character in that story.
The astronomy class I'm in now is amazingly helpful, especially the history of astronomy!
I stumbled upon this today and I had no idea it would come out, so awesome :)
I thought of 3 new magic systems while writing this, and was able to go deeper into 1 of my current systems as well. Damn, Sanderson. Well played.
45:00 Naruto and Marvel do this very well. No one would read these if there were only a couple of different abilities. There's lots of fantasy worlds out there which feature more than a few magic abilities or super powers, they sell well and people don't get bored reading them.
Debatable. Theyre all mary sues
About the "width versus depth" in magic and worldbuilding in general. I absolutely and completely agree, it's much more satisfying as a reader to discover one deep rabbit hole rather than a bunch of shallow pits, so to speak.
However! To play the devil's advocate for a second. What if, in theory, you're able to pull off a combination of the two. Have a wide array of everything, 20 races, 7 villains, 10 schools of magic or something like that. All of which are thoroughly fleshed out with complexity and depth while remaining consistent.
Would this ultimately ruin the experience, or enhance it despite much of the "content" likely going unnoticed?
It then becomes a tradeoff between being shallow (because you never reveal it to the reader and it might as well not exist) and exposing the entire iceberg.
You could probably pull it off if your story is sufficiently long, but it'll be tough.
Late to the party, but hopefully it’ll be useful to someone in the future.
I agree with the previous person with a hard profile name. I would also say that, if you do put all of the information in, and it somehow is presented in a way that’s not boring but also doesn’t take 5,000 pages (which would be a wonder in itself), you start getting into the realm of “If your reader needs a spreadsheet to keep track of the magic, you’re running into problems.”
@@dylanwatts1045 typically I think they remember their favorite types then Google the other types if needed, for example, in D and D, people only remember their favorite spells then look in the handbook for the rest.
You might remember the basics of other schools of magic in a series, but you'll remember your favorites the best regardless of how many there are in it I think. I could be wrong but if the hardcore nerd wants to have a spreadsheet for the magic, more power to them.
The book I'm writing has a complex magic system with multiple types and applications of magic, but most of the knowledge for how it works has been lost to time because magic is dying on Earth. It's going towards high fantasy, don't worry, there's another world, but it's a mess right now in the book.
It's a bit of a softer magic system with huge costs and risks and it will become harder as the rules are remembered.
Of course there's a major twist coming as to where I'm writing now lol and changing the established lore a bit
Really late to the party, but it's been done, and it's called Malazan.
Stormlight archive does have 20 different types of magic tho
Samuel Button 30
It’s really just one system with 20 different abilities. Although is it really 20 some of the radiants share abilities/surges. Although one could argue the void light is a separate system so it could be argued there are two systems.
david sandlin I remember Brandon saying there was 30. I think soul casting counts. Or maybe it's cultivations magic.
Sanderson book recommendations:
"Uprooted" by Naomi Novik (good example of a soft magic system)
I would love to be able to take a writing class from Brandon Sanderson
Even ignoring how awesome his books are, and his fascinating insights, Sanderson seems like a fun teacher.
Love the limitation in Piers Anthony's "On a Pale Horse" right at the beginning on the money-seeking stone he buys. It always seeks the nearest unclaimed money. Which is usually (in fact, always in the book, before the protagonist gives up) a very low-value coin.
Lord Denethor stood at the balcony, a rock guitar in one hand.
"Thunderstorm..."
@14:50 the #1 complaint i get when i try to introduce new people to fantasy is there are too many characters with different names and stories to keep track of who everyone is. I was told this by my friend who read the first part of WOK, mom who read first part of Final Empire, and wife who read the first part of NOTW. All three people enjoy fantasy films but for whatever reason can't keep track of the characters while reading.
This is the nerdiest thing I've ever seen haha awesome
chaosinorderrr Being nerdy about a couple of topics can be fun xD
Nerds rule!
Welp, this is geeky
43:29 The Dragon Prince comes to mind with few races but done well. Either way I do like several races/species.
Great camera work and editing/cutting between them.
His knowledge is amazing
There was a Marvel miniseries 1980s called Longshot. Longshot has the power to manipulate his own luck.
SPOILERS:
It turns out Longshot gains his own luck at the expense of other people's luck, and he ends up destroying his best friends life because of this. It's an interesting magical trade-off that allows for an interesting moral conundrum.
Brandon, I cannot believe you of all people have not seen the extended editions of Lord of the Rings.
Can't find my comment on some authors struggling with teaching how to write fantasy fiction, I might have left it on another video. Just wanted to clarify I was mainly talking about writers of the early 20th century like CS Lewis - brilliant fiction writers whose lectures on writing fiction could come off as having too much jargon or advanced English that is difficult to understand.
Anyway, thank you for this delightful video, Brandon's videos of his writing lectures are always fun to watch, and easy to understand. I also enjoy Shadiversity's videos on worldbuilding, they are so helpful.
52:24
Pretty good Jack Black impression actually
I would love to hear his lectures live, these guys are so lucky! Thank you, internet (and BS obviously)
"ooooh glowy flower containers for souls that are an energy source" is why i am watching this right now
The rule of cool is an important part of desing
I feel like Rule 3’s applicability is directly proportional to how hard the magic in question is. If your magic is soft, a lack of depth of understanding is a feature, and making a long list of things it can do adds to its unpredictability.
My favorite kind of magic system is one where the rules are gradually introduced, then meaningfully broken
Thank you for putting these videos on youtube. It's always very interesting to see into other peoples worlds like this. I'm an engineer so a creative writing class is not something I ever got to take, but I am glad that I can get a glimpse into it with your videos.
Every time I hear poke fun at LOTR, about how the eagles couldn’t fly them; i’m thinking, “You wrote the answer yourself!” Journey, BEFORE, destination
I have two big costs for my two magic systems, different settings; they're both economic. In the first, the magic requires resources that only come from one nation each. The conflict happens when those countries don't want to trade resources. The second is that every usage of magic takes away from the same pool everyone else uses and so using it excessively damages everyone elses ability to cast, and the conflict there is stopping groups of people from misusing the collective pool.
Even Brandon Sanderson hates No Man's Sky I'm not sure if that's a further indictment of the game or a recommendation for Sanderson.
it must be a coincidence that he used planet exploration as an example. He may not even know about No Man's Sky
Its not like it is an exploited idea...
NoMansSki
Starbound
KerbalSpaceProgram
Homeworld
Eve
...
50:40 I mean that pretty much sums up Terry Brook's magic system
The way the characters use it is not well explained, but we know the Elfstones quite well
Sanderson: "I want to write a story about a sword that's the most powerful in all the world but has a million silly rules and aggravations about it" So basically the X-men show Legion then right? He has all the powers, but all those powers are mostly useless and even drive him crazy because he can't control them.
I can’t believe this shit is on TH-cam. I feel like I should be paying for this shit
With how much the phrase was used, I wish he would have at least expressed what - in his opinion - a magic system IS. I couldn't figure out from his example whether each power is a magic system, each set of powers, or in fact any number powers that can interact.
I hate writing and am terrible at it , but these lectures seem like a lot of fun lol. A lot more fun than the boring IT lectures I had to sit through in college
I read Mistborn and Stormlight Archives...
Boom.
Lectures.
My personal take on why the ghost army failed in comparison to the exiled Rohirrim is we're given no information about how the ghost army actually works. We know they can't be interacted with by physical beings under normal circumstances, and that they can interact with us, but that's about it. We understand the power of the Riders because they're just humans with swords and horses, and obviously Gandalf. I believe the ghost army would have worked much better if the film had set up what they can do rather than just that Anduril earns Aragorn their allegiance.
I just finished Mistborn and really liked it, up to the last chapter when Vin fell into the usual teenage girl trope of thinking that all she really wanted was a hug from her teenage crush. That was a major disappointment. I do plan to read The Well of Ascension because I need more explanation of this world.
4:40 "we argued and debated, and then I became a much more successful author than any of them and I win." is what he should have said.
His humility got in the way.
Imagine getting a lecture on building magic systems from the master of it
He would be the best teacher, I’m so jealous of everyone at BYU
Not sure if it was on purpose but he referenced my hero academia with the hard rules explanation where he's says gene x turns some people into frogs and others can shoot ice out of their hands
Pretty sure it was just X Men