1959 Joan Sutherland's First Mad Scene
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
- And the best one in my opinion. Complete with applause.
Joan Sutherland, soprano
Chorus & Orchestra of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden
Tullio Serafin
Recorded live, February 26, 1959
....and 4 years later I sang for the first time with her (Puritani)in Carnegie Hall....She was a miracle!
Justino Diaz-Villarini you are great too
Justino-Diaz-Villarini ! Best wishes to you ! You don't need to remind us - your fine singing, not only in Puritani, but many other recordings is still fondly remembered by those of us old enough to do so. Your recording of Lucia di Lammermoor with with Sills remains one of the best. Thank you, Sir!
OMG! THE Justino Diaz?!?!?!?
Opening Night at the New Met with Price
Barber's Anthony and Cleopatra!
I heard you !!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@stevendaniel8126 …yes…and getting allong in years,82 in Jan….keep up your good work…with the operatic MONSTERS of the past !!😄
@@justinodiaz6501 ... where has all the time gone! 💝
Fall of 1984. I was a freshman in college and I remember reading on several books about her magnificent voice. "The voice of the Century"....."She turns any aria into pure gold" The accolades were endless in writing, but up to this point I had never heard her voice. The music library at my college was full of Maria Callas, Monserrat Caballe, Eleanor Steber, Ana Moffo, and Brigit Nilson, but no records on what supposedly was the most magnificent voice that ever existed. So my quest to listen to Joan Sutherland began. By the following semester, I found my first Joan Sutherland vinyl 20 miles away from my college at a public library. I was in complete disbelief the first time I heard her beautiful voice. How was this humanly possible? That perfect trill and coloratura runs were absolutely divine to my ear and soul. And hear I am now. Listening to the legendary Joan Sutherland on TH-cam and getting that same gratification I got in the Spring of 1985. La Stupenda....may you rest in peace.
no solo la coloratura.seria y magistral........si no tambien....sus harmonicos............su voz estratosferica...............su voz morbida.............de una capacidad............fuera de este mundo..................una voz...................inmediatamente...............fulgurante fuego...............ella es como la llama que humildemente empieza.........y luego es una hoguera....................aplastante....que te embriaga.....................hasta dejarte....................tan lleno..............que la fiesta solo se convierte en cultura .................una voz..............estratosferica................................
What a wonderful recollection; thank you. I always loved beautiful voices, even as a child, but growing up poor I had no access to cultural events; the one, small family radio was tuned to either baseball or the weather. When I was a senior in college I took a History of Classical Music course just to fill out my schedule (my requirements had been met). It was 1974, and the professor suggested we attend an upcoming Sunday afternoon recital at the U of MN to hear an "up and coming tenor," then write a report on it. Tickets were $5, and the tenor was Luciano Pavarotti. It changed my life. I started buying his LPs and , of course, he was paired with Joan Sutherland on the operas I loved. Well, there was no going back after that. I'd never heard such beautiful singing, nor have I since. Simply put, she had the greatest voice God ever gave a human being; no soprano could do what she did. Of course there were other incredible sopranos (Sills, Caballe, Tebaldi, Price, Nilsson, etc.) but none of them astounded me like Sutherland: the beauty of tone, the unparalleled mastery of bel canto technique, the trill, the range, the glorious top that never thinned, the power to be heard over an orchestra. To this day I listen to at least 10 minutes of her signing via all my bookmarked TH-cam videos. I am so grateful others appreciated her genius and posted examples for all to hear. BTW, because of Sutherland, I came to adore and collect the music of Marilyn Horne, my all-time favorite mezzo. I met her once after a recital she gave at a local college. She couldn't have been nicer or more appreciative of people coming backstage to greet her. When I got home I realized she had autographed my program, but I was so in awe I don't recall asking her to. And I do own two of Dame Joan's books which she autographed, as well as one of 50 autographed B&W photos of her as Lucia from the Met's '82 production. They are among my greatest treasures.
I started listening to Joan Sutherland when I was 9 and 50 years later she's still the standard I compare all other sopranos to. There have been quite a few great Lucias, but La Stupenda's still in a class by herself
She is , indeed!!!!!
Absolutely 💯
She had a great and skillful command of breath control .
Technique over technique.
Hard work!
I am very passionate about bel canto but not a professional expert. I have heard and seen quite opera in my life and live to some of the greatest we all know. But not the Dame. Very fortunate who has ever heard her live. In this fragment of the Covent Garden the perfection is represented, the zenith, the majesty of the voice. I cry tremendously of the emotion every time I hear it. But if you listen to her almost 25 years later in Australia, you will believe that it is a miracle. And so it is. It is the angel that came down from heaven to delight us for the rest of our lives.
raki091 so much for idol worship she is just like the rest of us but she has a dare I say it a great voice. Respectfully Arnold Bourbon Amaral 🌏🌎🌍🌹🌝
Just one of the greatest voices of ALL TIME!! I think even up into her last years! Her interpretations are so amazing that many others do not live up to them.
This recording offers a fascinating look at the early days of Dame Joan Sutherland's career. Her voice is lovely, her diction clear, and her coloratura is superb.
I grew up on these recordings of Joan and I was always transfixed. When I grew up I was privileged to perform alongside her, in the chorus, in her last performances in Sydney in 1990 in Les Huguenots. What a memory!
Wow! I would have given almost anything to have been there.
I remember when I was a very little girl creeping onto the stairs when Joan's Lucia made 100 Best Tunes on the radio after i was supposed to be in bed, just so I could hear the most beautiful voice I'd ever heard. Still sublime listening now.
Meme commentaires que ceux de Yeudy Menuhin
Non ci sono abbastanza superlativi per descrivere questo cantando ... Magnifico, bello, la bellezza tonale è magica, sublime, potente, coloratura perfetta e la lista potrebbe continuare all'infinito ... La Stupenda davvero !!!💖🌺💐🌻🌸🌹
She was absolute perfection. A unique, sublime, wonderful voice. There will never be a singer like her ... there will never be another Joan Sutherland. The Stupenda, The Perfect ... The Only One.
It’s easy to hear why Joan was such a sensation in her first Lucia at Covent Garden. At this stage of her career the voice was at its finest, fresh, brilliant, totally secure, in fact a miracle of bel canto singing. By the 1980’s, while she could still manage those high notes, her voice was a different animal, a very long way from those sensational early years. Certainly we will never hear her like again.
Is it possible for the human voice to be perfect in every category of song? I doubt it, but Sutherland's instrument was the greatest I ever heard.
That's very true
Me as well, Lucia in London 1985… older and from another world, gorgeous, powerful… greatest musical experiences of my life
Absolutely stupefying. I can only imagine what it was like for those present in the Opera house.
I knew someone who was there. He said they thought that something outstanding was going to happen because of rumours coming out from rehearsals, but the real thing was stunning.
I was at some of her performances at the Metropolitan opera. After the opera I went backstage and met her a few times. I still have the photo she kindly let me take. She was a very kind person which adds to her greatness.
OMG, this is the heaven! Most sopranos should be blessed with such voice and art!
She was so, so beautiful. I wish she would have had better stylists who didn't make her look so mannish all the time. Tall, beautiful auburn hair and a beautiful, agile dramatic soprano voice. May she rest in eternal peace.
Jules Manresa my wife and I always felt the same way about the way they were doing her makeup and hair Etc. She had incredible bone structure beautiful complexion very statuesque. She wasn't a vain individual so totally absurd about her appearance. And she had a voice that was incredible. We saw her live in concert with Pavarotti and they were really incredible this was in the late 70s. It was sold out 15000 people. Behind the stage where many teenagers from high schools all of them were music students and I read in the paper that they were allowed to get in free due to their Scholastic achievements. Dame Joan would acknowledge them after each aria or duet and so would Pavarotti. It was a wonderful night. Thank you for posting these beautiful pieces brings back great memories. Sincerely Arnold Bourbon Amaral 🌹🌝💏
🤔 mmm... then let me just tactfully say that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder 😀
I'm old and lucky to have seen & heard her numerous times live, and also off-stage. She's a goddess, the greatest voice, possibly, in the 20th Cent. She was charming and modest. A beautiful and accomplished person. But her physical beauty was never the big thing. Neither was it with her. She would have laughed.
I love these early recordings of her. The voice was much purer, unaffected. And the dramatic attempts were much more successful, as I see it.
she does sound more expressive than some of her later recording, and def. also had heavier take on the chest notes
No question that Joan was at the peak of her indescribable voice at this time. IMO her career as one of the most unique singers of all time was in fact around 12years - roughly from 1958 to 1970. By the middle 70's the voice had darkened quite a lot but also taken on what can only be described as an almost mushy delivery in the middle register though the higher register remained remarkable. “La Stupenda” indeed!
Absolutely mesmerizing!
Sutherland said herself in an interview recorded at her home in Switzerland (and uploaded on YT) that Richard was NOT a vocal coach and she did not regard him as such. He was a conductor and artistic confident.
Thank you, M° Serafín.
A lovely woman, an astonishing instrument...but I could never warm up to her sound and style. I remember her while I was at the Met - she was very sweet and somewhat shy, I thought. A phenomenal talent.
love the end photo of Callas with Sutherland
+Tenor Tony Villecco It was taken in Sutherland's dressing room after the dress rehearsal :)
Never to be forgotten!!!
Callas changed the whole conception of Bel Canto repertoire.
And? Why? Callas nuts.
She is not one of the greatest sopranos but
the very greatest one
that ever existed !!!
Thankyou, I am moved to tears.
Diva absoluta, e incomparable,
Why the comparing all the time between her and Callas. Both were giants. I love and enjoy both. And others too.
Mauricio Szwerdszarf I said it once and I'll say it again my friend you cannot compare greatness I totally agree with you enough said with these comparisons. Sincerely Arnold Bourbon Amaral
Actually, yes. Yes, you can. You can compare and contrast two greats.
Sublime!
This is her second performance of Lucia. The BBC changed their schedule in order to broadcast it after the sensational opening night. A legend grew about that opening being a stunning surprise, but this is not really true. Many in the audince had a good idea of what to expect because she had already had huge successes at Covent Garden as the doll in 'Hoffman' and in 'The Midsummer Marriage.
+John Mitchell It was the fourth, actually - she had sung Lucia on the 17th, 20th and 23rd as well.
John Mitchell
John Mitchell
John Mitchell- Joan sang Handel. Mozart and early bel canto before Lucia and they were great and the recordings of live performances which we have show great applause. She had a special success but she was heard as a major voice before that.
You are right John. Including Donna Anna. Cheers
This performance IS the epitome of Lucia and so well acted vocally anyways.
Sutherland didn't need to act..her voice did it. Best Lucia ever IMHO
La Stupenda= La Perfezione
It's wonderful, but, alas, it is NOT her first ever Mad Scene, which appears to be lost to the ages. This is her first Lucia BROADCAST, but not her first performance. Nobody seems to have a copy of the very first Lucia (probably because no-one expected it to be the world-changing event it was, and portable tape recorders were rare in 1959). But at least this copy is in the right key, as opposed to the Royal Opera's own version, which is almost a half-step high!
I've read all the comments on here. Despite what the armchair critics say and claim, I don't think she did too badly really!
@MrCafiero Sutherland's sound in this video is thanks to Bonynge (in addition to her God-given voice, of course). Saying he was responsible only for her faults doesn't make sense.
Her voice is much better here than later on. As time went on I am afraid that idiot Bonynge got her to lose her vowels, lose core to the sound etc. It was a stunning instrument and it is too bad she listened to him so much.
Amen to that
So grateful to hear this unforgettable performance! One can truly hear the amazing voice that made her become La Stupenda! In fact, in this very early performance of her famous Lucia, we can even hear an incredible sense of drama, which she frequently and sadly is criticized for lacking. But, there's no denying that it's VERY noticeable here!!
You are right. She needed someone who knew technique. I think in Bonynge she had someone in the pit who kept the orchestra in check so that it would be subordinate to the singers (especially herself) but not a musician of any quality who could bring orchestra and singers harmoniously together. The immortal Karajan Lucia from Berlin 1955 is amazing and the sextet (the one he did the encore) beyond any comparison. It is such a beautifully poetic blend of instruments and voices!! Perfection
gosh, MrCariero - you're so right. Thank GOD people stopped going to her performances after 1959 and buying her records. You alone are right - and certainly a great authority on singing... that's why you're SO celebrated and those two idiots are languishing in total obscurity now.....
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These comments denigrating Bonynge are completely misplaced. He's the one who recognized the potential in her for the bel canto repertoire, so he's the one you should be thanking. Of course her voice changed over the years; name me one whose voice didn't change over 30+ years of singing. She's the greatest singer of the 20th century, IMO.
thank you for saying that ! Bonynge quit his own career to perfect Joan's repertory and execution...and she practiced very HARD !
WOW! *LA STUPENDA* INDEED
el aria mas potente del mundo del canto...................para la interprete...mas potente.....del mundo en tres siglos........................un milagro sonoro...................el milagro de la voz autentica de joan Sutherland................
REINAAA 😍👏👏
Thank you. Glad you like the videos.
Not making vocals and you can still understand her, why the hell she changed that and did make vowels like oe, eu, ahahahaha, euheueheu!!!!!!!!! THis her real voice and beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my, oh my! Oh my!
su presencia imponía.....................
su belleza era de cuento...............hermosa...seria y con una bis comica ...que le daba ese punto grandioso de algo potente que estaba cercano.......................aunque jamas otra cantante ha podido emular.......sin embargo el planeta entero se rompe de gusto
Astonishing!
The picture at 13:20 is also Stunning!!!
You know I agree with you. in this instance . and for the record, while i have disagreed with you in the past, i have reread several of your comments regarding why Callas lost her voice.. and I agree with you now.. you are correct. Further your appreciation for great voices, is right on.. you pick the right ones. ( and I like your vids). .
Brava
A ribbon of light
La Divina Stupenda
Her voice was so crystaline in 59, but in the 60's the color change a looot...
Devastating.
pues existe.........ese sonido.............grabado en tiempos tempranos en el siglo xx
A real diva divina
There is a very good reason why the Italians named her "La Stupenda" folks. She surpassed Maria Callas on so many levels.
I totally agree. It is funny too because bel canto is built also on the balance of the vowels. They must be dark, but clear (chiaroscuro). She did not have that. She had skill of movement etc, but not the vowels. She would have been far greater with someone who knew technique.
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I agree that not all of Bonynge direction was ideal, but some of it was. After all, the sound JS produced in 1959 was thanks in part to his direction over the previous 7+ years. I don't agree with all his decisions in the 60s. The "she needs better" legato business, for example, was bunk.
We love to speculate what else Joan could have been, especially when they're is a (potentially deserving) scapegoat on hand.
Sutherland indeed had a lovely voice in this performance. However, I couldn't tell whether Lucia was going (or already went) mad or JS was having a duel with the flutist.
I think the problem with the flute duet in this 1959 issue was more in the recording, but of course I wasn't there. The phrasing and pace are also kinda different from later performances. So much of what we hear in opera depends on the set, setting, equipment and professional recordists. I believe the 1971 Kingsway Hall recording captured the best performance she did, and the 2009 re-mix resolved almost all the sound issues. The flute duet is immensely powerful, balanced and nuanced. I still don't know the flautist or the recording engineer who did the work (I've lost my copy, sigh. I keep giving It to people to listen to and they very sensibly don't return it.) The Callas photo was poignant. Callas best recording was made at the end of her career, and voice; Sutherland was just starting with her immense presence and so much better recording equipment available. I do not diminish anyone's voicing because of technology, the the medium IS the message ...
Both
Zeferelli told her that the flute was all in her head and made her run around the stage to find the source of the sound. She was already mad on her entrance. Callas said at the dress rehearsal that she wouldn't do it for any director. It made Sutherland the worldwide star that night. A product of Bonynge's insight and Zeferelli's stage direction. And THAT voice.
1959: the last Callas' Lucia and the first Sutherland's Lucia
Sutherland is much greater dramatically here than Callas.
And these pictures are to-die for. JS is so beautiful....
I don't go around pretending to be either a conductor or a voice coach!!! Bonynge does.
If Bonynge was this amazing conductor and expert of belcanto operas, how come once Joan retired, he was never asked to conduct again either at the Met, or Covent Garden or at any other significant opera house except in places somewhere in the outback!!! He still wanted (and still does) to conduct and only manages to get hired in small out of the way places. Perhaps he told you why this is so!!!!
si las demás te gustan en 10 arias..........ella te gusta en 100
haha, I feel so silly, I wanted to reply to CaptFitzbattleaxe by agreeing with your comment. Sorry about the confusion...
I could not agree more. Joan Sutherland had one of the most astonishing instruments and her timbre was simply breathtaking. Some people blame the sinus operation for the dramatic change in the voice, and I would like to say that this is nonsense. Her studio recording of Lucia's mad scene was after the surgery and there was no change. Bonynge is a terrible conductor and vocal coach! He messed up Sutherland so much in the 60s.
🤮🤮🤮
❤❤❤😊😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉🎉
When I next write to Richard,I shall have to take him to task as Mr Cafiero see4ms to know him better than himself(or me).
Quizás Ganaríais bastante si al poner la interpretación del canto, y más aún cuando son óperas y Grandes Galas, pusiérais a la vista dicha representación desde el escenario y en lo que fue "En Directo". Ganaríais más fama de cómo poneis en youtube las músicas, cantos, Réquiems, Misas Chorales, Óperas, Galas, y las Grandes Galas.
Faultlessly...
@CaptFitzbattleaxe Oh really? She herself said all he did was to convince her that she could sing the bel canto. Technically he did nothing other than that. She learned from her mother and according to Sutherland her instrument was always there from that. It is just that she sang more Wagnerian stuff when she was younger. However, she ALSO says Bonynge's insistence on what HE thinks is legato caused her vowels to get "mushy". I know singers who worked with him and he is an idiot.
Toilet paper.
😱
MrCafiero l'm curious. When did Dame Joan say she lost her vowels because of her husband ? when and where?
l'll believe it if l see/hear it
I think it was crtics that accused Rickie of losing her vowels,she(or Rickie) never said so.Her diction was never good,and she and her husband decided(quite rightly) to concentrate on the notes and the voice(sound) and let vowels/diction take care of themselves.As she became more sure of where and what her voice was the vowels/diction came back.After all what would we have in a singer,a wonderful sound,or clear diction/vowels?I know which one I would choose.
so do l,
moreover if you sound like her who the f* cared about the diction? lol
Plus, her diction isn't even half as bad as people usally say....nowadays sopranos have FAR WORSE diction! at least DJ's was very good until 1960...
have you ever understood any word sung words netrebko ? l never have XD
As you say,if these critics care to look at modern voices they might not be so quick to criticise Joan.She and Ricky were primarily responsible for the revival of Bel Canto in the 20thC.Before Joan very few (if any) singers could cope with the repertoire.While she lived and sang,very few other singers dared to compete.Now she has gone there are singers that attempt the Bel Canto operas,but none that reach the heights that Joan achieved.She (and Rickie) have set a benchmark that (I personally) do not think will ever be equalled,let alone surpassed.
+Dadacomero Hahaha, as for Netrebko, even IF I understood every word, I'd still have to BE payed to go hear her - and rather large sums at that! As for all the Sutherland bashing here on TH-cam and elsewhere, it is just ridiculous. She was a great, great artist, and no one can change that by carping about insignificant details. I think a lot of people forget today, that an important and integral part of opera is a beautiful voice that is used correctly - Beniamino Gigli wasn't a great actor, yet he was considered to be very moving because of his consumate SINGING. Who cares about being thin or sounding "dramatic" ( = shrill), if you don't know how to sing properly? It's going to be a very long night at the opera if all the singers have to offer are thin bodies and contorted voices that sound "dramatic"!
Richard was and continues to be about properly supported singing and the most round of all vowels. The change to my mind had a lot to do with the nasal surgery she had shortly after her debut. They scraped her sinuses clear and it very likely changed some of the positions..... she was and will remain no matter the time she sang one of the greatest examples of bel canto singing that has ever existed..... God bless her and her magnificent husband, Mo. Richard Bonynge.....
Agreed. Her sound sort of rebounded in the mid-60s, but I too wish of bit of the old lightness had been left alone.
I am sorry if I got carried away with my Bonynge hatred comment. Joan is one of my favourite singers, I just feel so sad listening to her after the mid 60s. The "luster" started fading away from 1964-6 onwards, a certain dryness occured and the sound was more and more muffled and the pronunciation disappeared because of Bonynge's hideous obsession with roundness. I honestly think if she had worked with other conductors she would have retained more of her "original" vocal qualities...
Yes, she could have been a much better singer, and with a great career. 😂👍
You can always delete your hate comment if you feel that way, you know. 😬
@@theon9575 I stand by my words thank you very much. Bonynge is an overrated conductor and vocal coach. Joan Sutherland was far better singing with other conductors. My comment said nothing about her career which speaks for itself. Bonynge would have had nothing without her. He rode his way to glory using her. Peace out :)
@@JayBee 🤮🤮🤮
y me cayo ...........para no decir mas............en cuanto a historia y contemporaneidad.......................y mejor es callar..................
DJS my❤️
y me diran y preguntaran porque se este detalle...........cultural.......y yo les respondo.......
Irre, aber meine Frau hat es erlebt: Bei einer Passage ihres Gesangs klirrten im Covent Garden die Gläser des Kronleuchters!!
LOL! No problem.
Does anyone know what the first image is from?
Nothing you wrote disagreed with anything I said. So I have no clue what you mean.
People just have flipped
Where is this? I thought her Lucia debut was in 1961?
No she debuted in 1959 😊 in covent garden.
Absolutely. Her voice in its early years had a lot of brightness, and ping and always great agility. Her first Lucia at Covent Garde with Serafin is way better than any of the later ones when she started that swallowed up sound, I think trying to darken the voice.
Singing is done on the vowels and the consonants are like the pegs on a washing line. Her vowels were atrocious and the consonants worse. Listen to her opening line of Bolena. Awful. Taking on the role aged 58 was always a bad idea!
I don't agree. I actually think her first studio recording might on the whole be the most overwhelming vocalism in recorded history. Yes, the vowels are bad, but the overall liquidity of the sound, the sadness of the middle voice, the brilliance of the top, have never been matched. The girlish brightness is gone and it is replaced by a still young but incredibly melancholy sound that floats but has real heft and power, the voice can cut through steel yet it has rounded edges. She had finally become herself and left her little Callas touches behind. It is perfect singing. That's who she was. Even her much lauded Turandot has the distinction of basically being perfect. For me, the first studio Norma (also perfectly sung) is my favorite recording of hers. The voice is heavier, but still youthful, and the sheer power couples with the unchanged agility is almost science fiction. The second half of "a bello a me" is singing pushed to the limits. That brightness and ping in her voice on this Lucia recording to me detracts from what makes her great. She wasn't Galli-Curci, and she wasn't Callas, she was in between. You find that in the recordings made between 1960-1970.
Joan could have really been a extraordinary interpreter. She sadly based her career on this Lucia. She should stayed with Serafin. Could you imagine what would've happened if she followed him as devotedly as Callas did ?
RicharddtheStar and look what happened to Callas ...
What happened ?
RicharddtheStar was convinced - by that same Serafin! - that she could sing Brunhilde and Elvira etc with never a thought to the eventual vocal cost. Callas burned herself out ... her loss to music and was terrible! And did that vocal vandal Serafin save her?
Chris Ryan sorry to say but this is just bullshit, she did sang Brünnhilde and the next week Elvira without any problems, the problem is not serafin but her rapid unhealthy weight loss, when she lost 40 kg there were nothing to support this huge voice so what happen she was only straining her voice and she was literally destroying her voice when she kept losing weight until 1958. i also thought of that myself if Joan followed serafin as Callas she would be great artist not just vocalist, her interpretation here is heavenly, even her weakness in chest register was turned to an advantage to convey a sickness and madness feeling. even her dictions were much clearer than with Bonynge who turned Sutherland to a canary, Bonynge saved her from going to Wagner and did trained her well but he was not a good conductor IMO.
+RicharddtheStar It has almost become received wisdom to say that Bonynge somehow destroyed Sutherland's voice. It must be admitted that he is opinionated. but she said that she was her own woman and no one made her do anything that she didn't want to. As to Serafin, he was 81 when he conducted Lucia and Dame Joan was contracted to Covent Garden and had several musical directors. It is not possible for singers to pick conductors., and anyway they have no input on how a singer uses his or her technique. Their responsibility is the tempo and orchestral sound. Before and after Lucia our heroine sang a large range of roles. Norma Roselinda, Alcina, The Merry Widow,
Otello Dei Fledermaus. etc. Sorry to go on a bit, but I am very old and did hear the first broadcast. I am enjoying the discussion.
ustedes saben??............como cantaban............los castrados.?????????....................teneis una idea minima de como cantaban...y de cual era su sonido?.......................
The sad truth is that Joan herself for all that she had a miraculous voice (quality of sound wise) I don't believe possessed much musicianship. And neither did Bonynge. Add to that that she never learnt much Italian or French (and her pronunciation was atrocious) so she had no natural feeling for the flow of either language. Unfortunately for a lot of people a few E6s are enough to go WOW!! I often wonder how she would have developed had she had a really great mentor and coach. Who knows!!!
And in which opera houses did you sing during a 40 year career?
Bonynge is a fine musician and advocate for singers who may have gone unnoticed. He is now a true connoisseur of the soprano voice. He is one of the last people around who heard Callas PRIOR to 1955, Flagstad, and to have authentically mentored one of the greatest sopranos of all (Dame Joan). I think you go too far with your judgement.
We have, who we have she would never have sung this repertoire without Bonynge.
Her diction did lessen especially in recordings in the 60’s as they recorded her away from the mic.
I worked with her first in 1972 in a rehearsal hall and I couldn’t believe her sound and what she could do with it. That was days before I heard her E flat
This is incorrect. She spoke Italian quite well.
@@francoisjoubert6867 Just because you can't do it yourself, doesn't mean you don't know how it should be done!
first of all it may be a discussion to you, but it is not to me. It simply is, one who knows and one who has only opinions.Opinions is not knowing and you are a matser in showing that.
WOW. How clueless can one be about what "singing" actually is. Guess what? We sing ON VOWELS. We sing WORDS which are made up of vowels and consonants. The vowels are what we sing on and how you get the beauty in the sound with proper balance of harmonics (chiaroscuro). JOAN herself said her vowels got mushy as a result of Bonynge. Are you calling her a liar?
was this before R.Boyninge (?)
Tulio Serafin.
was that an answer?
No, she was the type of singer she was because of Bonynge from the late 40s on. None of her career is before Bonynge. However, they tried to round out her middle voice to create perfect legato and I do think it harmed her diction. Her earliest recordings are brighter. I prefer he first studio recording of Lucia. I think it is just the best of all worlds and I think she projects an almost unbearable sadness in the mad scene.
You are very misinformed. Read the helpful introduction above. This production was from 1965 under the baton of Serafin,. The Bonynges didn't meet until the 1950's. Before Lucia she sang under Beecham, Boult, Downes. Davis and others whom I won't bore you with. I'm sure that you are too young to recognise the slow and steady progression of her early career. It was several years after the first Lucia that the couple entered into their unique partnership.Why you would prefer the sterility of a studio recording to the excitement of a live performance, I don't know
Without Richard there would be no Joan (as we knew her).
She didn't loose her vowels because of him,it was a case of beautiful singing or diction,and I know which I want,and so did Joan and Richard.
If you had stood in the wings and listened to her(as I did at Covent Garden) even later in her career,you would know that talking of "losing core to the sound"is sheer nonsense.
Who else should she listen to but her husband and teacher?
Sorry,but you know not of what you speak.
Exactly. Anybody who ever heard her live, even in the 80s, knows that these comments are nothing short of nonsense. The chiaroscuro comments are basically toilet paper with shit on it.
All this poor language about Joan is true enough but her tone was quite nearly perfect. Maria hooted trembled and wobbled from within 5 years of her first major appearances.I can handle Joan's flaws more than I can Maria's - so what. Others think differently and others like both about the same. Let us enjoy what we do - disagree but not try to mall each other. Enjoy-John
65attila INDEED MY FRIEND! 🌿📖🙏🌹🌏🌎🌍
Bravo, well said.
Technically it's the best Lucia. Callas performed better and with more emotion,but Sutherland was a real dramatic coloratura who owned the role vocally.
The better vocal performance goes to the only one between the two of them who sang with a low larynx. And that was Callas. High larynx singing is NOT operatic singing. And Sutherland only sang on a HIGH larynx.
Es muss nicht immer die Callas sein,
Joan Sutherland singt viel feinsinniger,
ähnlich wie die wunderbare Sumi Jo.
You are banging your head against a brick wall of fanaticism. Sutherland had naturally great vocal quality but, apart from the first few years when perhaps she had good coaching, her singing technique was mediocre and her interpretative skills never developed. Whether it is Bonynge's doing I don't know. All I can say is that he is not much of a musician. In my opinion if she had chosen to work with the likes of Serafin, Karajan, Giulini, Resigno etc the results would have been 1000 times better.
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It has nothing to do with me, JOAN said it. Do you understand English? And I could not give a crap less about what Bonynge thinks or has to say about anything. I don't respect him at all. Her voice could have been better without him.
She wouldn't have had the voice without him. He guided her val development from 1951 on. He's the reason she is famous at all.
Coulda, Woulda ,Shoulda...etc...(LOL)...