Does Investing Over 25% Make You a Tightwad?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Does Investing Over 25% Make You a Tightwad?
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I love the fact that these two have their own opinions and dot go out of the way to agree with each other. My favorite finance show
Correct. Dave Ramsey isn’t that way at all.
@@dforrest4503agreed. DR has an ego problem and seems to definitely hire "Yes Men".
@dforrest4503 no other channel will give you this dynamic.
Compliments to Rebie. She’s a great moderator.
This show has changed my life, found the show during the pandemic at 27 and since then worked my way up to a 35% saving rate. I can’t say thank you enough for the awesome content you guys put out!
Right there with you brother, keep it up!!!
That’s amazing! At 35% you’ll be able to retire in
@@9e7exkbzvwpf7csavings they didn’t say investing?
My wife and I are currently saving around 40% of our household income. Yes, we are tightwads but because we have to be. While we are fortunate enough to own our home, our combined income is pretty low. With two young kids my mindset now is that they really have no concept of material posessions, or expensive vacations. By sacrificing some "would likes" now, I am hopeful we will have the financial flexibility to afford some great memories with them in the future.
Your kids will thank you when they are 30 years old and were able to buy a home when their friends are still paying off school loans, because instead of spending thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation every year, you saved to be able to play for their college. My dad did that for me, and I thank him at least once every six months. I am so far ahead of my peers financially, just because I was able to get a degree and not have a cloud of debt hanging over me for 15 years afterwards. 😊
And even then @@OhhState vacations where you road trip somewhere are sometimes the best memories a child can have. My family did a 2 week trip every summer to see my grandparents (a two day trip driving) stopping over at my aunts place on the way to stay the night and catching frogs in her backyard, eating with all my cousins around a big homecooked meal, are some of my best memories. Every day at my grandparents was surrounded by people and yet all these trips cost was a tank of gas. You can always make memories @loganfishbeard even without money, spending time with family, having a garden in the summer, volunteering, going swimming at the local lake or fishing at a river, just playing with your kids, family games night! These are the things your kids will remember more than any toy or big stressful trip.
@@OhhState 15 years is the low end for those taking loans these days. I’m guessing they will be paying student loans longer than a typical mortgage now that many have balances in the six figure range. College is a scam that replaced the housing bubble of 2008 where easy loans led to catastrophic failure… the only difference is you can’t really foreclose on a degree.
It's hard living minimally when you know you don't HAVE to and all your friends don't live like you. I've been saving 60-70% of my paychecks every month for the last 3 years and realized I have hardly left my house except for work. I can't do this forever, I may go back to 30% so I can also live my life. I'm young and don't want to blow my young years. You are only young once.
Wow !! impressive discipline ...i hear you that you're only young once. if you in you're 20's the compounding power /snowballing effect is amazing compare to each decades there after. I say cut back to 40% as at that amount you're killing it compared to most people and enjoy yourself a little ,but don't get caught up of how your friends are living big because in all reality people who have all the flash don't always have the cash and are just posers. I'm older ,but can tell you when you put yourself in the circumstances of your money working for you vs the other way around .You'll love the feeling of financial freedom of being able to afford the nicer things in life without struggle .
I'm doing 70% while living in LCOL countries. Still having a great time and doing whatever, so no big sacrifices.
@@jackieboy1593 That's good to hear! Keep up the saving grind, it will pay off :)
"living minimally when you know you don't HAVE to"
This definitely! My husband and I have to max out our 401ks to each reach 3mil by the time we retire. That's $3800 a month total just for retirement savings. We are also maxing out HSA contributions which is another $690 a month. That's already $4.5k out the door every month from our combined income. And these two were non-negotiables for us so we didn't want to cut them.
Now if we want to continue those contributions, pay our mortgage, and live life.... is it really possible? Yes --- increase income. It's the only way. Sure you can cut back on living costs, but why not just spend every waking minute of your 8-9 hour job everyday just working towards a raise or promotion? Imo, this was actually easier than sacrificing our short and long-term goals. We have a certain income threshold we want to reach and until we reach that threshold, we HAVE to get raises every 1-2 years. Either by promotion or switching jobs.
It's a delicate balance between making more money and keeping the work-life balance. Because more money usually means more responsibility. So in this journey of increasing income, you learn to prioritize better at work so you don't waste time on shit that don't matter. And since you've been focused and disciplined and getting shit done within that 8-9 hour time frame, you NEED to be off work at a certain time and do other things (i.e. things you like) or else you just burn out and everything will be for nothing.
The nice thing about doing a budget and including a “fun” section is that you don’t have to feel guilty about spending $100 last month on entertainment because savings were already set aside
I save and invest about 50%. It really just depends on what your expenses and income are. You don't need inflate your lifestyle
I can do anything between 15-50% depending on income. I'm on a variable income.
Same here. Saving about 50%. Married with 2 kids. Both parents are 40 yo and both working
I wonder how much people are making when they say they are saving 50%. For example, are people making $100K and saving $50K?
To save $50K out of $100K of income would work out to be $30K. That's also assuming $23K of the $50K was put in a tax deferred account. So $2500/month to pay all expenses including healthcare?
@@TheFirstRealChewy
In 2020-2022, I invested 50% of my GROSS salary each year. 48% in 2023. I currently make a little under $79k/yr.
Currently, 22% goes into pre-taxed accounts.
50% savings is insane. Good job… We get hit with way too much life to save that much. Gotta fly here this month, fly there next month.. see “x” family member, rent a car, get an Airbnb.. water heater breaks… baby is born… it never ends!
When I got my home at 19, I wasn't saving anything. That was the tightest time in my life financially. All my extra money was going for things like a refrigerator, dining room table, lawn mower, blinds, etc. This week, I saved 100% of my bring home pay. Past two weeks were 83%. I didn't need most of the 17% i held back. So, I invested it Friday. How? I started a diet and mainly eating from what I have in the freezer. The weather has been mild. Utilities including electric, water and trash equaled $121.00. I spent $60 this week on groceries and one rose bush and pet food, but i have enough bonus rewards to cover it. Life just isnt expensive anymore.
What i would do with the money i have today if i could, is give my 19 year old self some money. Probably the reason I focus on helping my children.
In 2020, 2021, and 2022, I invested 50% of my GROSS salary. I missed the mark in 2023 when I invested 48%.
You need to make sure you enjoy life. Every year I take up to 7 vacations (averaging 5). I cut corners where it's not important to me, so I can invest and spend where I want to. I'm a tightwad in some areas of life, and I splurged in others.
Solo/live alone
meaningless without saying the GROSS. You could say 50% of $1m/yr GROSS, which is $500k, so, I'm quite sure living off $500k/yr puts you above 99% of the US household income versus your making it rain money.
To each their own right! You are taking care of your future and living in the present how you want. Good for you!!!
The way I see it now, while you're relatively young and don't have a family to support is prime time for saving and investing. And as long as you're not hurting yourself or anyone else, there shouldn't be any stigma about it. Life is expensive.
Agreed, I wish I saved more in my early 20's.
I agree with Bo that the inflationary period we just went through with housing has greatly affected the "starter home" concept. In addition to the points they said, the concept has also greatly affected people who bought their starter homes before/right at the start of this inflationary period. When I bought my home in 2020 ($300k) I bought it as a starter home. Now that the house is worth ~425k with a 2.625% interest rate, the challenges are a) finding a home that feels enough of an upgrade (apart from location) that is
I'm in the same boat bro! Upgrading the house would be awesome but being aware of lifestyle creep holds me back. Saving without a mortgage would be cool.
"if your kids don't spend it your grandkids will" so might as well spend it yourself.
Fix the problem with a trust, that's what we need a show on!
or just spend YOUR money.
@@hanwagu9967 that's how you stay poor generation after generation. Wealthy families know better.
@@hanwagu9967 The truly wealthy can spend lavishly on themselves their whole lives, and still have enough (considering the money will continue growing) to set up a legacy trust and pay for the next 10 generations of their descendants college degrees. And maybe help with down payments on homes too.
There's a lot of ways to set up the groundwork for generational success without just dumping all the money on your kids or grandkids at once for them to blow on whatever and not have to work. That's lazy. A legacy trust can last up to 1000 years and you can dictate exactly how the money can be distributed to your heirs and what for.
No wealthy person that isn't an idiot just throws high 6 or 7 figures at their heirs with no conditions and makes it so they don't have to work.
If you only have enough for your own retirement, that's fine, spend all your money on yourself and your gift to your kids is that you raised them when they were young and you weren't a financial burden on them when you were old. That's good enough.
But if you have plenty of excess, and you'd rather blow it on oversized homes, boats, sports cars, etc. than help secure the future of your own kids, grandkids, great grandkids etc... then you're just an extremely selfish person, if I'm being honest. I'm not sure why you even had a family. Probably shouldn't have. Dual income, no kids is an objectively better way to live a financially selfish life.
Yes! My grandparents set up a trust. I have been getting $$ every month for the last 15 years and I will forever (currently about $2,500/mo and goes up a little every year)
- i finally paid off my $90k student loan 😳
"Brian, I am SO excited"
Bo is like the opposite of a news anchor with their signature sign off
LOL
I think people put too much into starter homes .
Love where you are and what you can afford right now. Life brings on so many changes.
I agreed with Bo regarding pulling funds from the house especially Heloc. Even as a realtor and coming from family owning multiple properties (mostly paid by cash). I thought if I have the heloc on my home i would just use it temporary and repay back right away. But it is not the case. However on the bright side, I was able to refi and cashed out in 2020 with 2.625% interest rate and used that fund to build an adu which now generating couple thousands a month. It’s really about the timing. However, overall, best to have cash reserves when it comes to real estate. Do not over leverage.
Another thing with social security I didn't realize until I saw comments on an article. If you start drawing SS before 65 you will automatically be enrolled in Medicare A and B at 65. Someone commenting on an HSA article said it tripped him up. What happened to the commentor was he was contributing to an HSA when the automatic enrollment happened. I was surprised to learn that as I thought you had to apply for Medicare separately and it had nothing to do with SS except paying for it. IDK the situation where he was doing HSA and drawing SS maybe he retired and was doing HSA because he was covered by wife's HDHP but came as an unwelcome surprise to him.
Honestly, i struggle to spend more money. I live really nicely and dont want to spend more. I think i save like 40%.
The only way i could realistically spend more is to donate to charity more.
If I didnt have a family to take care of i could easily live on half of my income or less. As it is, I save around 30%, which is still really good, especially since I dont feel like I'm sacrificing anything to get there
I was investing 25% and saving 50% while living on 25%. I was planning on buying my first investment property with cash, but with these high properties prices, I am thinking of switching my strategy to investing 75% and living on 25% instead. My investment amount would be $60K per year. When properties come down, I'll buy if they don't come down or actually go up it's okay. My etf stocks investment portfolio should have grown by the time I am ready to buy. I am 42 and completely debt free with home paid off and no other debts.
Short answer: depends on how much income you have but yes however you shouldn’t care what other people think.
Will Brian’s book also be available as an audiobook?
These are great observations about the real estate market. I bought my house (basically a starter home, but it’s just me) for $98k in 1996. As of 2021, it was still assessed at $145k, which was less than inflation over that time. For 2024, it’s assessed at $243k. So in three years double the increase as compared to the previous 25 years. I’d definitely be in no rush to buy a home.
One thing I haven’t heard you talk about regarding net vs gross income percentages is tax rates between states. I’ve just moved from Minnesota to my neighboring state of South Dakota. My gross income is virtually the same but I’m saving $3,500 in taxes each year. Each paycheck is about $100 higher than when MN taxes are calculated, which allows me to either save more or spend a little more on proper housing.
I say you can never save enough. Lol. 😂😂
We’re saving around 15 percent. We’d save more, but my wife works for the state and gets money taken out for a pension. We’re also putting our kids through college so they’re self sufficient. We’d save more, but don’t want to miss out on opportunities we may not be able to do later in life (travel) due to health or other issues. 52 right now and hoping to retire comfortably at 61.
Totally depends on your income. If you make less than 100k per year and save 25% or more you aren’t spending much money on things you enjoy. I’d be miserable but if being a tightwad makes you happy then you should do it.
Spending money on pretty much anything other than travel and experiences is physiologically painful for me. It actually hurts. Saving (or more specifically investing) money feels incredible. I love it. From what I see in society, I'd guess 90% of people are wired basically the opposite of me. But a high savings rate isn't a chore for me. It's actually much more painful to not have a high savings rate.
I think a lot of people don't get this when they tell savers to "let loose" and "live it up". Saving is how we live it up... It's what I enjoy doing with my money the most (or 2nd most, behind travel). And the reality is I only get enough time off work to travel 1-2x a year. So time is really the limiting factor, not money...
Agreed. My wife and I make just over 100k gross combined, live very frugally and we have to really squeeze the budget to even hit 15%
Loved the 457 question and answer. Thanks, Team!
Finding this channel and a few others in the last moth has helped me greatly with my financial education. I was doing well with my 401K but a rolled over IRA managed by a broker. It was from a frozen and paid out pension plan. At the time I didn't know what I was doing so I figured let their broker handle it. Probably an expensive mistake as when I looked at it I realized it was not keeping up with even average market returns over that time. I realized I could probably manage it myself using a 3-fund portfolio since I now had confidence to do so. That broker had some multi-fund plan several with high fees and were charging a hefty fee to boot to manage it. I moved it and caught the Nov rally last year.
There are always three things to do with money: give, save, and spend. It’s not just the saving and spending we should focus on.
Brian and Bo, what are your recommendations for FIRE folks and Social Security benefits? Do we delay taking it to 67, 70, or do we take it as soon as possible so that our drawdown amount is smaller?
They ain't gonna tell you unless you pay them AUM fee, because you could just sue them, that's why these videos are caveated as for entertainment purposes and opinions not financial advice. I would web search mike piper, who, I think there's a general concensus, provides a very good online FREE social security strategy calculator. It is very tailorable tool, and did I mention FREE. I have no connection to Mike. Even if you paid a financial advisor, I'm pretty sure they would just use Mike's free tool.
Surprised how lenient they were on the starter home question. The purpose of a starter home is to live there for 3-7 years while figuring out what kind of home you really need. Guessing what you'll need 10 years from now at the "buying a starter home" age seems like a pretty straightforward path to overspending on a nicer home that very well may not fit your needs.
I can't afford 1 house let alone 2. I'll just keep on with my 22% savings
Will Bryan’s book be on audible on release?
Are you guys planning on having an audible version of the Millionaire Mission?
Food historically doesnt return to previous prices. And the housing price:income ratio has gone from 50% to 11%. 25% isnt realistic for 20s and 30s. 30% gross is a more realistic number especially since housing will continue on its unaffordability climb
What do you think about building and renting tiny houses on your property. It seems like a great way to get extra money without having to deal with a lot of stress.
Depending on where you are it is not legal per the zoning ordinance to build more than one livable building in one lot. Renting is also always stressful.
I’m 35 at 25 percent gross excluding extra savings for possible future expense like house downpayment so on average, i am able to save at least 40 percent. And i allocate 5 perxent of take home as fun money
I'm 33, saving 70%. I live with my parents though.
Here's how I picture Bo going out to dinner. Server : "My name is Brian, and I'll be your server this evening. Can I start you off with an appetizer?". Bo : "You know, Brian, I am so excited that you asked us that question, because my family has been talking a lot about that very thing lately." :)
Good information ❤
I think it really depends on how much you make and what you want to do with your money.
Like someone making $30k/year is going to absolutely be a tightwad trying to save 25% of their income because chances are they're sacrificing or cheeping out on most of their wants, and even some of their needs to get their investments up to that point.
But someone making $100K/year or more, well once you have all your needs met (Which I mean can absolutely be reasonably and comfortably met for $50k a year or less.) Then other than wants, what are you spending on? Just because you make more doesn't mean you have to expand your needs beyond your means, especially if you're aiming for things like early retirement, or living a comfortable life.
Does the US have salary sacrifice equivalent. I"m in the UK and regularly Sal sac between 20% to 65% each month (change it when need more take home pay) such a valuable option fir high rate tax payers :)
Agree 100%, it is a no brainer (also UK here). I do appreciate paying a lot less tax and contributing a lot to the future. We are lucky in the UK with the amounts we are allowed to put in each year. The U.S have the 401k which is very similar from what I understand
No, we don't have that in the US (had to Google it). I've heard of some very high earners negotiating various extra benefits but I've never heard of anyone sacrificing part of their salary to get them. And many benefits are still taxable in the US.
@@JessMN1974 hi, the sacrifice part means that i lower my salary by an amount and that amount is what goes in to my pension ( equivalent 401k...) So then we only get taxed on the lower salary figure, not the higher one. It's very useful!!:)
E@@nicolawilliams2319we do have a tax break on 401k pretax contributions, but it is capped at $23k for 2024 (over 50 yrs old can do catch up amounts in addition). It is taxed when it is withdrawn in retirement and has penalties on top of taxes if withdrawn before retirement age, unless it is a loan which has rules. Pretax 401k accounts also have required distributions in retirement which can create tax challenges too.
Does your option have a max deferral amount?
@@nicolawilliams2319 In a roundabout way, we kind of do... There's no negotiations to be paid less in exchange for adding to pension or pension equivalent, but money contributed to a 401k is considered pre-tax dollars.
Let's use the example of someone who earns 100k in a year. If they choose to contribute 20k to their employer sponsored retirement plan (a 401k), then that 20k will not be taxed that year. So, the employee was paid and earned 100k, but will only be taxed on 80k of earnings that year. The invested money can be tax deferred all the way until retirement.
So no, we don't have the same system, but we have ways of achieving similar results. And hello from the US by the way... I hope you're doing well over there across the ocean.
What is the FINE movement?
Andrew has the right idea!
Are you guys saying the "FI movement" [Financial Independence] or "FINE movement" [Financial Independence, Next Endeavor]?
Both have great points!
Save extra as a default (>25%), so you will ready to spend when you find something you really want.
And don’t spend too quickly because it might be impulsive and keep you from spending on what you really want. MEASURE TWICE AND CUT ONCE WITH FUN SPENDING. For example: saving for an extra car. I think I want something fun and fast but over time I’m realizing my preferences are changing so I am glad I didn’t rush in.
11:48 by this rule, someone making 80,000 a year, with 20% down at current rates - can only afford a $270,000 house.
Idealistic rule… where in this country, are you going to find a house for that price?
POS starter homes here in Washington State are in the low 400s
I think he would tell you that if you live in those places, you shouldn’t be owning a car (basically only NYC makes sense)
The 20% rule he mentions at 11:48 is for cars, not housing
@@raffaelepiccini3405 well 20% down avoids PMI doesn't it?
@@hanwagu9967for your first home they say they are ok if you only put 3-5% down. They also say if you get a second house you must put at least 20% down
@@raffaelepiccini3405 the Money guys recognize that you should go with minimal down for your first house, but getting to 20 is important for the long term. the 20-3-8 rule is for cars but that's more because they recognize that car values drop like a rock and its risky to have an underwater asset.
Between my saving, and investments, i am putting away about 30% away
Like the show. Much wisdom
Depends on income. 25% into a locked up account can be problematic.
Why gross and not net 25% to retirement?
Why not eat beans and rice, live in a cardboard box and do 99% to retirement
@@LawrenceTimme Why only 99%? As a dual income household I invest 100% of my net pay and we live off my spouse's income. In terms of getting by, It's no different than the way a single income household that lives paycheck to paycheck lives. Which millions of people do right now by necessity.
The only difference is I keep and invest my 2nd paycheck instead of a bunch of companies and creditors getting it like most people do.
And I do like rice and beans if it's seasoned well but eat better than that most nights... i'd invest 100% of my gross income, but ya know, the IRS would probably get pretty upset about that.
All the people groaning about how "miserable" I must be saving so much money are sure going to be miserable working until they're 72 while I've already been retired for 25-30 years. Suffer the pain of saving now, or suffer the pain of working until old age later. Pick your poison. Unless you're a trust fund kid, not suffering is not an option.
And living your life trying to avoid all suffering is both futile (because it can't be done) and kind of pathetic, to be honest.
Shit I want to invest 25, I’m at 20. I’m also 46 so I’m not sure how much difference it will make at this point. I plan to retire at 59.5
My family has been living on a take-home income of $75k a year with 20% retirement savings. This month, our income is increasing to $225k annual take home. (A decade of hard work finally paying off) We will be buckling down to be debt free in a few months, which will reduce our basic living expenses and bills down to $25k. Why not keep the $75k limit on our expenditures and invest $150k a year pushing to get to $2 million invested outside retirement to give us the option to retire early in the next 8-10 years?
I feel like blowing more than $50k in disposable income a year is irresponsible. Even planning a couple nice international vacations a year we'd be well within the $75k limit.
We could pay cash to build ourselves a nice cabin or lake house. Buy some acreage.
Invest more in hobbies but still.
Yes, and a smart one!
25% of your base pay or would you include a volatile bonus as well? My bonus could be 0 one year and 40% of my salary the next.
25 percent of your base pay, and then if you get a bonus save 25% of that
Nope, next question. 😂
I think im saving 70% a month. Maybe even more.
There are plenty of ways yo reduce risk in rental real estate, reserves, screening, brrrr,
25% of my gross is 1000 dollars. According to that rule I will never own a house
It blows my mind that people still trust in pensions in 2024.... pension will likely get frozen at some point long before you retire in 30 years.
It’s definitely important to look at the funding level.
@dforrest4503 It's not even just about funding levels.... I doubt a single company, government of not, will still be offering pensions in 30 years. Companies/school districts have been freezing pensions left and right just this decade. We're down from 50% at the peak of pensions to under 13% currently... give it a decade or two, and that will be down to zero.
If you make $10,000 after taxes and benefits, investing 2500 is no big deal.
If you're broke, and make 2000, 500 is too much.
I love these guys but paying 2% of your net worth for asset allocation is still a rip off. I'll die on that hill. Unless you're totally financially illiterate, a weekend on TH-cam can give you all the j do you need on a basic 2-3 fund portfolio.
I am going to ignore you advice and buy a house thats 30-35% of my income that i can live in forever. 😎 5-10 years seems like short term planning to me.
Can you 1000% guarantee you’ll live there forever?
25% isn't enough information to make any ruling. 25% of $75,000 isn't even maxing out your 401K and IRA. Gotta bump those numbers up.
Of course it isn’t. But if your lifestyle is affordable at 75k, you probably don’t need to max out your 401k and IRA to retire. That’s fine and not everyone needs to be maxing out their accounts.
@@General8675 It depends where you live and when you plan to retire. Not everyone needs to max it out, but they should if they have the means to do so. Can't predict the future but prices only go up
@@maoisnI’d disagree if you’re talking about tax-deferred accounts. If you’re saving that much, you could easily want to retire early enough to not want to put all your eggs in tax deferred accounts.
I save and invest 116% of my income. It's difficult at first, but I believe you can do it too. 💪
what is that 116% figure? if you're making 100k. you're saving 116k?
Lol
@@Boleeezy I would be ashamed of myself if I made less than $400k/year.
@@roysherwin9348 I'll jump on the the stupid bandwagon. If your income is $400k/yr, this means you save $464k/yr? I think @Boleezy's point is that saving over 100% of your income doesn't make any sense. Primarily, becuase you cannot save and invest over 100% of income, because of taxes. If you are getting money from mommy and daddy which allows you to offset taxes and the 16% over 100%, that ain't income. Considering you can't do common sense simple math, I guess you are pretty much perpetually ashamed of yourself, because you ain't making over $400k/yr.
@hanwagu9967 actually, in the time I'm taking to type out this comment, I increased my savings rate to 121%.
depends on 25% of what doesn't it? talking percentages are rather meaningless. For example, we spend 25-30%, 30% taxes, and 40-45% savings of gross. I can guarantee we are not tightwads, given on the what those percentages are based on. I'm pretty sure there is no 457 for military, and I'm also pretty sure it's not a military pension, but it's retirement pay. I'm pretty sure my forever home is not gonna be a structure of any kind. Greedy Holly sounds like she wants her parents' money, which indicates there won't be savings for third generation. Forgot to mention life expectancy when to begin drawing soc sec. I don't think it's nuanced at all, because you forgot to mention the break even point. Statistics don't lie: most people will expire before or very shortly after break even point. Someone like your father, is myopic thinking. it's the same as insurance. Sure it sucks you made 30 years of payments and day 1day after policy ends and never get anything back on that term policy. Same goes with soc sec. Soc sec pays out far more like 300-500% more than you put in. if you wait for 70 and talk about 7-8% inherent return, you will never get back what you paid into vs taking at 62, so what's the difference between that and Brian's dad's situaiton? It's insurance and you are playing the actuarial odds.
If I didnt have a family to take care of i could easily live on half of my income or less. As it is, I save around 30%, which is still really good, especially since I dont feel like I'm sacrificing anything to get there