How Do Hate Symbols Work? A Helpful Guide for Pewdiepie!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2019
- Recently Pewdiepie, also known as Felix Kjellberg, uploaded a video under the missleading title "The BROFIST is declared a HATE SYMBOL! (this is bad)". In this rather confused presentation Felix seems to have a bit of trouble with understanding how symbols work. We are here to help!
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#pewdiepie #symbols #pepethefrog - เกม
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Very concise and I'm glad that you always make the time for well researched arguments, something which is very close to this content matter. It isn't exactly clear whether Pew has an agenda or is just clumsy, naive and poorly read. Looking at this, results matter more than intent anyway.
I think entertainers and actor in general should stay out of tricky debates altogether since they are amateurs in a bubble (very atypical life from the one the rest of us leads).
I'll just lift Mark Wahlberg as a rare good example:
"Mark Wahlberg has said celebrities should keep their political opinions to themselves, saying they live in a “bubble” and have no real understanding of the issues faced by others. /../ When asked why he did not get involved or actively endorse anyone throughout the 18-month campaign, Wahlberg said he didn't feel in a position to do so because of his own privilege. "
Knowing and understanding your own privilege in political matters is for sure a good thing for most people. Putting yourself in some sort of perspective and be introspective.
So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
New to the channel really love how you break down symbol and dissect these hateful tools of institutional power. Excellent video.
Thank you, glad to have you here friend. It is a bit of an easy one, a bit too 101 for some maybe, but hopefully people find something useful from it! :)
So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
Th comments in his video were saying stuff like ‘white Nationalists don’t have bad intentions thats the only thing he got wrong’ like can you try to exclude nazis like just try to
Heh, one would hope that we could at some point exclude nazis all of the time. Forever.
Really good video, I'm enjoying your work a lot! I can't wait to see what you do next, your videos are really satisfying.
Thank you! Glad you enjoy them! Next one is planned to be something a bit more holiday related. Traditions and stuff like that.
So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
This video reminds me of contrapoints Decrypting the alt right. Good job, keep up the good work.
We will take the comparison, haha. Thank you, and you stay awesome!
@@Transparencyboo So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
Unfortunately, someone with 100 million subscribers literally *can* afford not to do better. The algorithm has a strong influence on the volume of views, and therefore ads, and therefore money. It does not care if a video was produced ethically or tells the truth. The financial success of PewDiePie comes from the fact that he puts out broadly accessible videos (like let's plays) and uploads frequently. Doing better might even *reduce* his income, if careful consideration and fact checking mean videos take longer to make.
Very true, there is little insentive for him to do better. To some extent it is also hard to filter all the feedback from such a massive audience. But yeah, clearly the money is not there, might as well just do the bare minimum.
I think this is the heart of the matter. The responsibility of what you say to literally millions of people, many who could be argued to be young and therefore naive or accepting whatever statement at face value. You hit the nail on the head - it doesn't matter what he is or isn't. He has a immense platform to speak from and that means he has to take accountability for everything he says and does. Which is why people on television, radio and other conventional media have scripts, or bullet points and are instructed by other people before they speak, either live or recorded. If tomorrow, BBC decided to release a documentary or host a show that has really bad implications due to lack of good communication or incompetent writing or research, and to quote pewdiepi "did an oopsie" of course you'd expect them to get all the properly deserved hate from the media. Doing a one man operation on a scale this big without carefully planning your words is difficult, but to have an operation this big doesn't mean it comes without its fair share of challenges. Great video and I hope to see more good content out of you all!
Thanks! What I find to be rather odd is that he does not seem to have a PR team, or at least hire people specifically for times like these. He sure does have the money for it, so... maybe he doesn't feel it is needed? I mean he does not seem to be impacted much from these things ever.
He's a kid with matches who don't understand the consequences, and I think it'd be too much to ask that he learns to navigate these waters anyway.
Better if he just focuses on entertaining, He's a pro entertainer, but an amateur when it comes to these debates, so better if he just stay out of it all.
It may seem unfair to treat even celebrities this way, but I think it comes with the premise. While we can discuss openly and broadcast our views, these guys really shouldn't very much.
Hey! If he wants to make a meaningful impact, he can send some millions to a charity. Proved and tried method right there, because that is something we can't do actually.
There's pros and cons to fame.
När en youtuber uttalar Kjellberg korrekt
Måste bryta engelskan och få in korrekt svenskt uttal, vettu!
So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
I didn't know about some of those symbols at all, now the reaction I got to using a pepe meme makes a lot more sense... guess i'll avoid using that now, thanks for educating people!
It is all good, thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed it and even learned something from it! We at least hope that Pepe can be reclaimed at some point, because that is very much a possibility. Things were quite good when he was just a fun loving dude after all.
no dude, people are just trying to ruin wholesome internet culture.. pepe the frog is ok! saying poggers isnt racist! not saying Transparency is ruining internet culture, just the people trying to turn pepe the frog into something worse are ruining wholesome internet culture.
I was going to dislike this video, ended up liking it.
Cheers, friend!
This channel if quickly becoming one of my favorites! A lot of people tend to laugh off these new hate symbols as being ridiculous or innocuous as if that isn't the whole point. I think a lot of people, possibly Felix himself, think that "the ok sign is classified as a hate symbol" = "If you use the ok sign you are a white supremacist." This is obviously false because, as you stated, context matters. Thanks for the great video, it will be really helpful in discussing these topics with people who think like Felix.
Wow, thank you! Being among someone's favorites is honestly more than we can ask for. Really warms our hearts! Thank you so much for the kind words!
@@Transparencyboo I'm really looking forward to watching your channel grow!
Thanks! Hopefully we can keep it up!
Hello,
I'd like to say something that I'm sure wouldn't be on my mind regarding this topic a few years ago, because most of the time whatever the people claim as their new hate symbol isn't widely used or is actively made up (as in ,"12"), but the symbol for ,"OK" that is a frequent example is something I'm very concerned about - you see, in PJM (Polish Sign Laungage, Polski Język Migowy), this particular gesture and finger placement is very important. The gesture itself means "fine/good/well etc.", but also "zero" and "o (the letter)", and the finger placement along with various hand movements and angles is used in many signs. Even though I'm not deaf I use sign language, and even though I'm not in a country that links this gesture with hate symbols as a matter of course (we have our own:/), it's still something I'm concious of, just because of an Internet osmosis. And some of the gestures and symbols that are being, well, taken, are similarly important to people. I'm not religious, but obviously swastika comes to mind, and I've heard that there's neo-pagan movement in Nordic countries and the pagans also have to compete with the symbols of their fate with neo-nazis.
I suppose it's a matter of privilege that I were able to live with mainly disregarding the topic, but it's something that bothers me - changing a part of language because a group of people distant from myself decided to co-opt a sign in a hateful manner is not fair. And is it necessary? Does it even matter, in the long run? I don't really have an overall point, I'm afraid, I'm mostly musing.
It absolutely matters, and I and the other people who liked your comment prove that. We appreciate your honesty and thoughts on the matter. It's immeasurably valuable to be introspective. It gives me hope in humanity that even neutral people can reflect on their complacency, thank you so much for sharing.
Love the video! Your iconography is very cool
Thanks! We'll see if that will be present in every video. Kind of playing around a bit still. We like to mix things up, haha.
Excellent work. Subscribed.
Thanks you!
God, re-watching this years after the fact is so interesting. As an edgy teenager watching him and other creators at the time, it was easy to fall into this anti-sjw idea and not take these things seriously. However, seeing how Felix, and other formerly "edgy" creators (Idubbz, for example) have gone on in the years since, I think at least the intention of their actions has become clear. I don't think they ever had any far-right intentions, but they fell into a trap at the time and didn't try hard enough to acknowledge or explain it. Even thought the point of this video stands strong, I understand the backlash, considering I believe Felix truly just wanted to stay removed of something he never wanted to be attached to (not the best defence but, hey, I think people have moved on for the better since). Also, I say this as someone who is still a fan of his, so, sue me i guess...
I feel like PewDiePie is going further and further into the alt-right. I used to enjoy him until the controversies started coming in. And now he's just a gateway to the alt-right and his lack of responsibility for 100 million people is so dumb. Good video.
A lot of people did, and do still, enjoy him. He has at times a very likeable personality to be honest. When he starts talking about things like this, or when he has to respond or apologize it tends to be a bit... like he is not listening. And yeah, sure, with so many voices screaming at you at once I bet it is hard to discern the valid from the opposite. We still want to be hopeful though. Then again what else can we do, haha?
Anyway, thanks for enjoying the video, and reading this rambling response.
@@Transparencyboo this is exactly how I feel as a viewer since he blew up back in 2012 or so. It feels like he shrugs the criticism off as people overreacting. Honestly so much of what he says when he talks about issues such as these seem to come from ignorance. It's so tiring as a viewer to see him not trying very hard to be responsible.
The problem is that people don't unsubscribe from him to send a message. He won't change his behavior unless it impacts his subs and views.
@Tranquility watch the video
@Worst Nightmare excuse me?
I can agree with most sentiments but you conveniently left a fact out. To quote you:
"The ok hand sign is in fact great in this regard since it is inconspicuous enough and widely used in other contexts. It can be *used to leave people unsure about your intentions* or even oblivious to them. *Felix does not seem to acknowledge this* as he keeps making this false dichotomy people who like to demonize others and those who like to troll."
What he said:
"It's supposed to be a dog whistle [...] If it's a dog whistle it's a god damn megaphone, everyone gets called out on it." (th-cam.com/video/F5QWUOAcg_Q/w-d-xo.html)
He definitely hasn't painted a very clear picture of the situation, but the fact, that, by giving it so much media attention, the actual white supremacists can not be discerned from people that aren't white supremacists, which in turn helps the former by making them less conspicuous, still stands. Not to say that not giving them any attention is better, in fact, instead of demonizing people who use it in contexts, where there's no evidence to support the argument that they're white supremacists, wouldn't it be better to make clear that it can be used in hateful ways and in turn prevent trolls from gaining traction?
In the end, we have to keep in mind that people are fricking morons and when impressioned with any particular view, often dismiss any logic or reason that doesn't coincide with that view. It comes to show that in my opinion this very much isolated instance actually has four factions, the ones who use it as a dog whistle (i.e. actual white supremacists), those who use it "normally" (i.e. without bad intent), the ones who demonize anyone for using it, and those who as a reaction to the latter use it to troll.
And a kinda (not so much) related thought: To any extremists as much as the media, Pewdiepie (and any "celebrity"), is just a way to get to what they want. For the former to get attention of both non- and extremists, and for the latter to get attention to make money.
Great video can’t believe you don’t have more subs
Thanks. We are doing our best.
So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
Great job!
Well honestly doesn’t the fact that he looks down on racism, homophobia and such affect his responsibility in the matter? That’s just my opinion but I don’t wanna start a fight, just a conversation. Btw I’m not a conservative at all. Great video ;)
It is great that he does, and when he does it, of course! Would love to see more of it of course. We would not dismiss Pewdiepie just based on what he has done before, and honestly people need to have the room and opportunity to change, right? It is mostly a matter of him doing better and not make these, in our opinion, rather harmful arguments. To be honest we can see why a lot of people find Felix enjoyable and likable even, and that is why we would like him to do better and take more care of the way he adresses these issues.
You will not find fights here by the way, we are not into that, haha. Thanks for liking the video! :)
Transparency yeah I agree :) I think it’s hard to have such a big fanbase and not have some controversies every now and then
Pewds isnt even an American. You dumb pcychos keep hating and spreading hate for no reason. Like why? Are you nutty in the head normally?
algorithm and love
WOOOO!
This was great.
You should do a video on Rationality Rulez and all that transphobia he spouts!
Don't think I have actually ever heard of them, but might take a look at it. Thanks!
Lovely video! Time went by really fast. :)
It probably means we did something right with the pacing hopefully, haha.
genuine question: why is this fool so popular?
anyway, new subscriber here. Love your videos!
Funny man scream at game, maybe?
We learned a lot here today. Postposterous can't get enough. --Postposterous
Glad to be at service!
Algorithm Internationale!
Very good
You are very good!
😳😳😳
Still wonder how sympathtic he is to the alt right since he used to follow them openly on twitter and maybe only does it now with a private account.
Who knows, I am not really going to speculate on it either, haha. But yeah, sometimes you just have to wonder.
@Worst Nightmare Go do something useful, kid. Like read a book.
@Worst Nightmare
Ok nazi sympathizer.
@Worst Nightmare Honestly, mate. You are not backing anyone into a corner. You are just being another regular old piss baby in the comment section of a youtube video you didn't like. Get over yourself, lol.
@Worst Nightmare
He literally followed people in that scene so it is not that just followed some random people but I guess some fanboys don´t want to see that.
Legit question, how powerful are hate symbols really?
Depends on what you mean by powerful I suppose. They are useful tools for certain people to collectivly show power over others, sometimes to signal that power to like minded individuals that then can do the same. I think we need to at least acknowledge how they are being used and that they can indeed have an impact on the feelings of safety for certain minorities. And of course how they can embold hateful groups in general.
I dont understand why people in the comments still say his channel is big. I still a fan of pewds and I could tell nearly most of those subscribers are from people who made multiple accounts. Also. I believe the Christchurch shooter is clearly not a fan of pewds. Of he is a fan, he would surely know that pewds would be in big trouble. Also, he has KSI written on his gun and no one is talking about it.
Because he has a big audience, lol. That is just the fact of the matter, no way to slide around it. Also - the Christchurch shooter being a fan or not is besides the point. This is about pewds dealing with that aftermath moreso than anything.
@@Transparencyboo Also it gets a lot of attention of the media when a youtuber is mentioned in such a horrible crime.
The intro got me interested in a fair view about this, yet...
"intent doesn't matter"
"context is important".
That's enough for me.
Great work, mate.
@@Transparencyboo Wish you all the best there!.
💘💘💘 Approaches perfection!
Thank you! You are approaching perfection!
So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
@@Coldfront-sg3tt lol, "pcycho" (I know we shouldn't make fun of the kids, but sometimes we can't help it.) Word up, homey! See what I did there?
good video
Hey, thanks! Glad you liked it! :D
Symbols like, gods lost all power once people ceases to believe in them.
There’s not something in this video that I necessary disagree with, but one thing I need to ask, how many people do you think this video causes them to dislike PewDiePie?
Oh right, does anyone still use the ok hand sign as a hate symbol I wonder 🤔.
Do you think the goal of the video is necessarily to make people dislike him?
@@Transparencyboonot really, as like what PewDiePie did, the side effects that your video can cause is unknown, is my point. How does people interpret your work is something that artists and creative of all sorts have been pondering for ages.
@@bruhbrother4805 o k
@@Transparencybooo k the real question is do you believe that symbol, like gods, lose it’s power once people stopped believing in them?
@@bruhbrother4805 what symbol?
this video got me feeling all kinds of ways
really got me thinking
thinking enough to waste a lot of time writing and revising entire paragraphs below about a couple of areas i think this video could have improved
exhibit a: ok hand appropriation and dogwhistles
yes it's 100% true that the ok hand is now a dogwhistle which is worth spreading awareness of.
yes it's 100% true that its origin is irrelevant to its current use.
however i think a lot of people are unable to understand these truths because they're unable to see past the trolling campaign that popularized it.
you could have indicated that people falling for the trolling is the reason why it got popular enough for hate groups to decide to co-opt and appropriate it.
if not for the trolling success it would have died in the bowels of 4chan as just another thread nobody gave a shit about.
you could have then explicitly pointed out that this does not diminish its power and danger and when presented in this way i think more people would be able to realize this.
but the video in its current form could be interpreted as you attempting to deny that the trolling campaign ever happened.
me personally i did not immediately realize that you were not trying to argue this.
exhibit b: "no one should know these things"
this statement is for sure some real bad stuff.
but i think that it would have been more effective to make the assumption (even if false) that pewdiepie had good intentions but extremely poor execution.
i get that in an analysis like this that this is a big no-no since you have no clue at all what the man was thinking when he pushed out this bit of bad content but this felt like a real big missed opportunity.
here's what i mean by this: when i watched the original video to confirm that nothing was being maliciously edited i completely failed to register that pewdiepie did in fact say "no one should know these things".
i had to go back and listen to it in isolation from the rest of the video to confirm that you didn't actually pull that clip out of your ass.
what had happened was that my brain had made a small leap in logic and used the context of the rest of his video to assume that it meant something else than it really did.
i had automatically assumed that he probably skipped a word and meant to say "no one should HAVE TO know these things".
which means something very different.
instead of promoting blissful ignorance, now this is saying that people shouldn't be forced to seek out obscure-at-the-time knowledge to avoid getting falsely accused of being a white supremacist.
which is a position that i'd assume the majority of people agree with.
now anyone else that made the same small leap in logic that i did thinks that you are arguing for unjust and reactionary persecution when really you are just condemning ignorance.
i understand that technically the burden is on them to not misunderstand in this way but again if you pointed this distinction out explicitly you could have maybe changed a few more minds.
fwiw i left a dislike on both this video and pewdiepie's, his video was really badly constructed as you laid out here but the unnecessarily patronizing tone on this video left a real bad taste in my mouth and has me wondering if these missed opportunities for improvement were actually honest oversights and not just the byproduct of trying to dunk on pewdiepie as hard as possible.
it's very interesting that in both of these instances the arguments are structured in a way that never allow him to be somewhat correct about anything at all or appear even once in a positive light.
given how well put together the video is overall i find myself questioning if any part of it wasn't deliberate.
maybe you did consider my proposed improvements at one point but scrapped them because they would make him look less bad.
still i do appreciate that you opened my eyes to the poor quality of his arguments (even if i hadn't actually seen the original video before) and i did learn something about the power of symbols today.
You guys should change your thumbnail style . Add more colors.
We'll most likely stick to the aestethics of our videos, but from time to time we will switch it up a bit.
The OK hand symbol is still a harmless and innocent hand symbol, as symbols mean how they are used, and since 99.99% of people were using the OK hand-symbol as an innocent "made you look," then it is innocent.
It's almost like we made a video about this.
@@Transparencyboo Almost.
If you look a little bit harder you might actually find it. I know this is hard for you.
@@Transparencyboo This is indeed hard for me. I turned the difficulty setting up to legendary and my "escape" key doesn't work anymore so I can't go to the menu. Basic things are hard.
@@Divinemakyr You should get a new keyboard then.
So many pcycho karens in the comments. Now i see where the karen/furry breeding grounds are.
i.imgur.com/irwzJqa.jpg
Oh my god it is not his responsibility to take care of every moron that watches a video and takes a joke too seriously. Every human being has the responsibility to decide how they react to these things on their own, it is nobody else's fault but your own if you get offended by something that was a joke.
lol, nice.
Do you fart?
let be real telling everyone that the okay sign is a hate symbol is not helping anyone
Cool.
@@Transparencyboowow, you have no argument. that why you just put “cool” in the comment
@@LWoodGaming I think you got it the wrong way, friend. We have a video with an argument. You made two comments with nothing. But keep trying though. It is cute.
@Savio CHIRIYANKANDATH The avatar is what really sells this to us.
@Savio CHIRIYANKANDATH Stop writing five hundered comments where you might as well have just posted one, then we'll think about it.
Clout chasing I see keep complaining snowflake though I will say love the video format :)
Not gonna lie there is so much death and problems in the world and people wanna complain about hand gestures its a sad world iv lost hope for the human race
@@ryanyoung9954 then go do something about that? what does this have to do with the video?
@@ryanyoung9954 uhhh... this hatred often leads to people getting hurt/killed.
Soooo... Pretty sure this falls into the category of some of the worst crap that can happen so I think it's worth complaining about.... You clown lololol