Why Over Gassing Your AR-15 is Unreliable
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video, we discuss the potential dangers and drawbacks of over gassing your AR-15 rifle. Over gassing can cause the rig to cycle too fast, leading to various issues such as failure to extract, failure to feed, premature wear on your bolt, bolt lugs, and gas rings, increased perceived felt recoil, stovepiping, erratic ejection, broken bolt faces, and cracked lugs. None of these scenarios is ideal for any shooter.
We explain why over gassing may seem reliable because the rifle runs and functions under any circumstances, but it is quite the opposite. Over gassing adds unnecessary wear to your rifle's parts and can cause malfunctions faster than a properly gassed rig.
We also address the danger of a case rupture due to a rig functioning too fast, highlighting the importance of respecting the concept and understanding the potential hazards of over gassing. We invite viewers to share their comments and opinions on the topic and subscribe to our channel for more educational content.
If you're an AR-15 rifle owner, you don't want to miss this video. Watch it now to learn why over gassing is unreliable and how to keep your rifle running smoothly and safely.
Case rupture was terrifying, also heard the loudest sound known to man, a click when you expect a bang. Had lots of double feed errors and weird shit happening with failure to eject right and the range officer calmly pointed to the pile of spent brass at 1 o’clock and told me what my problem was.
Wow, a new BA video!?!
Really good points man. Overgassing will definitely effect your reliability by destroying your parts faster. The industry seems to have nailed gassing with port sizes, adjustable gas blocks, the mid length gas system, etc., overgassing for reliability isn’t just dated, it’s less reliable than what we have now.
Also, If I’m taking anyone’s advice on barrels, it’s Daniel Defense, SOLGW, FN, Criterion, and Ballistic Advantage/Aero Precision. These are the champ barrel manufacturers/suppliers/vetters of the industry.
DD does not deserve to be mentioned with those other companies.
What about locking lugs wear and therefore enlarging the head space due to lack of gas? Should I be afraid, that redusing the volume of gas would mean that locking lugs would not be pushed forward enough while being turned ???(therefore it would wear quicker)
So can any experts in here tell me if the CMMG Endeavor (18") in 5.56 is over gassed? Should I opt for the Resolute instead but suffer that sub 3,000fps?
This man knows what he's talking about 👍 ... and that's the biggest reason I only use Ballistic Advantage Barrels in all my Aero Precision builds. If you put it together correctly, it cycles perfectly every single time. Thanks again for making the best quality barrels for guys that home build the AR platform. I've tried others, and I now exclusively only use Ballistic Advantage for all my builds ... and I have many😉👊👍🇺🇸
Glad to see you're posting videos again!
Yes! More real talk! I learned so much from your early videos. I’ve been through several top name armorer classes that do not teach the techniques you showed in those early videos.
Great content! More discussion related to means of fixing over gassing would be greatly appreciated. Especially going from subs to supers with a suppressor. Finally means of diagnosing further would be really appreciated! Great content ... even better products!
The first thing I check after building a rifle is the ejection pattern. That is key to how good your build is, the foundation of how that rifle functions. You will bust up all those expensive parts if you are running over-gassed, period! Very good information, glad you are posting videos again, BA rocks!
What about locking lugs wear and therefore enlarging the head space due to lack of gas? Should I be afraid, that redusing the volume of gas would mean that locking lugs would not be pushed forward enough while being turned ???(therefore it would wear quicker)
@@mirekslechta7161 Did you look at running an adjustable gas block? You can find tune your system and really get it dialed in for you setup. If you are under-gassed, the bolt won't cycle and you can make adjustments on the adjustment gas block to allow more gas in the system.
@@shramj I have adjustable gas block. I only wonder, whether small amount of gas could cause increased wear for locking lugs.
Welcome Back! Your return is long overdue. Great explanation of the dangers of too much gas 😂 Can you speak about the various and best ways to address an over gassed rifle?
I've got 2 of your barrels and both of them are overgassed. The 14.5's gas block is crooked when the pin is installed. Never had a problem, but the irony is ridiculous.
Exactly right. I just wish we could get this message to barrel makers. They bend to hear it way more than us.
I have a BA gov't profile barrel that I rarely use any longer because it is so over gassed. I have a few BA barrels and they all perform well...the gas port size is spot on...Great info
Funny. I just received a 14.5 BA and I'm a bit worried about it. It's over 0.08 according to my crappy Chinese pin gages. This'll be my first build with an A5 extension, so I won't be too upset until I get it finished and see how it runs, but I was expecting a bit smaller port. Maybe I should've asked before ordering🤷♂️. Oh well, with a bunch of extra headroom in the bigger buffer, I'm sure I can dial it in, I just hope it doesn't cost me too much tungsten.
*slightly* overgassing your rifle *can* be more reliable. But that typically only applies to a duty scenario with the full weight of government supply chains behind your rifle. That doesn't necessarily apply to the vast majority of shooters.
I prefer my rifles to eject somewhere around 4 o'clock unsuppressed, and at 2 o'clock suppressed. Mostly because I'm not into changing gas settings every time I swap to and from a can.
This video is spot on, great content guys.
Excellent video with superb logic applied.
Your vid is spot on and well explains your reasoning. I love the Aero Precision adjustable gas block for this very reason. Tune down that overgassing!
I think you literally just nailed the malfunction in my Brand new AR pistol. Over gassed! After the second mag, it jammed EVERY round! 😢 Couldn't remove the first round before it tried to chamber a new round. But when manually cycled, even jammed, the extractor worked. Even if you had to force it to worked. I think it's cycling too fast.
Put a heavier buffer and buffer spring or one or the other to see if it slows it down. If not try an adjustable gas block. I had an h1 buffer and put an h2 with a heavier spring and not it’s around 3 to 330 o’clock ejection
Yes keep it up, more content!
Watched the shi👍 out of your videos when I got into AR’s and reloading again.
3 uppers 3 Hanson bbl’s
This hobby helped save me from the dark place I was in!
Thank You
Glad to see y’all are back at it. My favorite channel to refer to while building ar’s.
True unfortunately some manufacturers are overgassing their firearms because they are saying its more reliable
When I replaced my FN mid-length barrel with a BA carbine length, I was all of a sudden over gassed. An H2 didn't cut the mustard so I ended up installing an H3 buffer and that slowed it down so I'm ejecting at 4 o'clock now. I'm not a big fan of adjustable gas blocks so buffering was my fix of choice.
Maybe a video about suppressing SBR’s in 300 blackout in the future? Just asking. Thanks for everything.
Love all my Balistic advantage barrels!!
YOUR Modern barrel was nicer looking than the rest, priced well, and married to my upper perfectly. Also they are magical, I forgot to index the gas tube and remembered as I was putting things away. Slid the GB forward and it fit better than if I actually tried. Now THAT is a Bad Ass Barrel. And it came with a "Properly Headspaced" bolt, very nice.
This is great content for the community to hear from a reliable source like yourself. Nice work @ballisticadvantage, keep producing videos like this.
Man, this feels like Angry Hanson responding to some range shenanigans.
Appreciate it I have an 11.5 that is so overgassed I have a red springco spring and H2 buffer and it's still throwing them forward heading to a gas restriction device next.
Try h3
@@texasoutlaw210 thanks but went to the root and pulled out the weed LoL put an adjustable gas block super soft now
Happy to see you making more videos. I always learn a ton from your content.
Holy crap! What a pleasant surprise. I missed the BA videos
Have you ever noticed how language gets "more harsh" the more fed up you get with other people's stupidity? 😂😂😂
I know my language does. 😏
Here's to not being afraid to saying it like it is. 🍻 👏👏👏👏
I purchased a complete upper from Midwest industries and based on the research I did I believe(even the Midwest industries won’t tell me who made the barrel) that its a ballistics advantage barrel. The rifle is over gassed, to the point where I had to use a h2 buffer to get a 3 o’clock ejection. The firing pin retaining pins in that rifle. keep getting mangled and destroyed because it’s over gassed…
Brother I really appreciate and enjoy all your videos would love to see more. Thanks for all the info
AR's are more of a recipe than legos. Overgassing is overcompensation for gas leaks and/or a poorly spec'd carriers with too large of a gas ring run or bolt tail seal. Over-functioning a weapon is as bad as under-functioning. I have an m16 BCG that came with a military surplus m16a1 parts kit which was probably used as a training gun the last 30 years. Its hard to say if the BCG is original to the gun, but based on the coating condition, I believe it might be if not an early replacement. The bolt lugs are still in great condition and the carrier internals are still in spec. My theory for why - 1. probably because it was in spec to begin with since Colt is where the actual spec comes from. 2. It was a rifle length gas system which means the bolt stays locked for longer before the gas finally reaches the carrier key to force it open AND the gas pressure being delivered to that gas key is lower because more of the powder is burnt by the time it reaches that gas port = which results in a smoother operation which is less stressful on the mechanical components.
I say this to illustrate that the less violence you subject mechanical parts to, the longer they will continue to function correctly. Use the longest gas system you can on a given barrel length. Coming from a perspective that suppressors are standard equipment, suppressors add dwell time, so having a short dwell time barrel makes sense so that you haven't over extended your dwell time upon adding a suppressor. This makes the loudness at the shooters ear less severe and again reduces overpressure at the carrier key.
Don't like over gassed ARs either. The Hanson 14 and 16" mid length barrels tend to have the best ejection patterns and recoil impulse right out of the box. Hope that my supplier will eventually get some of the mid length 17.7" 3 Gun Hanson barrels back in stock.
This is why M4 feedramps were invented, to deal with the high cyclic rates of the M4 when new as well as heavily used. Of course, modern M4 carbines can still choke given enough suboptimal conditions. Overgassing can be one.
What ever happened to Q&A with BA?
This
If any of you have built an upper with a ballistic Advantage Hanson midlength barrel and it wont feed 223 then you may need to look at the gas port. Ba uses a .0730"" gas port which is about perfect for shooting 5.56 ammo w/ suppressor(highest gas scenario). If you plan on shooting a ton of 223 unsupressed you will have to enlarge the gas port one size up to .0760" or #48 drill bit. Stick a cleaning rod down barrel, put a drop of oil on port and drill it out in one clean pass. You will be removing the tiniest amount of material. This setup will cycle/lock back with brass 223 55gr using an h1 buffer. It will cycle but not lock back with steel case 223
Noveske is known for being massively over-gassed. 0.086" gas port it just stupid. I'm in the process of having them replace my 13.7" Infidel light mid CHF CL barrel. Right now I have the SpringCo Orange extreme power spring in it with an H2 just to slow it down an I'm still at 1:30 for the ejection pattern. Super annoying. Suckes with a can as well.
What's ideal ejection for a CLEAN, broken-in rifle, which will still allow reliable function once it's a little dirty? 3:00? 4:00? Great video, BTW!
Funny thing is...the “bad ejection” is likely what you would get shooting a BCM suppressed. It will run with or without the can, in freezing temps, and with just about any ammo. But because they only source quality C158 bolts and CL barrels that are individually HP/MP, their rifles can run longer before parts failure. For people whose lives depend on a gun that works, it’s hard to beat a healthy gas port on a quality rifle.. A proper maintenance schedule using quality parts ensures continued reliability.
A 4:30 ejection pattern on a suppressed SBR with an adjustable gas block is ideal for fair weather larping. There’s nothing wrong with that. But that on that gas block setting with the same ammo, the gun is likely to choke without the can or in freezing weather.
Older suppressor design does have that affect as you stated. However, free-flow suppressors tend to mitigate over gassing a rifle due to the design. If a rifle does not have an adjustable gas block, free-flow suppressors are ideal.
Before anybody tries to trouble shoot a gassing problem, they should watch David Tubbs video on buffer springs. I would first start by purchasing a flat wire spring for any AR-15 build. That alone will assure you of a good build. Then go from there. Besides it's a great addition to your build and you can't go wrong even if that doesn't fix the entire problem. I have found there is no universal length nor tension for the rear spring. It is very inexpensive for the total price of a build.
Link?
Damaged Industries makes an awesome buffer spring as well, check them out, very inexpensive to boot.
Brandon, be sure and take a little time to watch his videos on springs. He has made a gauge for this and his flat wire springs also stops the oscillation when the spring is expanded. Cool videos and rig he has set up.
Just to add a little note to my comment, I had built 2 AR-15's with Ballistic Advantage complete uppers. these were .223 Wylde chambers to be shot with hand loaded match ammo. I also was using UTG A-2 stock w/tubes & springs. The rifle shot sub minute groups but would not load another cartridge. A slow-motion video helped us see this. The brass was ejected at the 3-4 o'clock position and could be put in a large coffee can. God bless Ballistic Advantage I love their uppers. So we looked at several AR's on the range that day and the buffer springs in everyone was different length, even the one that were ejecting its shells was swapped out and would not work. Thats when I studied the David Tubbs videos. I have purchased several items from them in the past and I trust him and his products. This is not to say this will fix your problem it is something not to overlook.
Clint thanks for for insight and I concur 100%. The correct way to cure "Overgassing per load" would be adjustable gas block. But I myself am at the point of cheating by trying different buffers and springs to get a 4 to 5 oclock ejection. Is that really cheating ?????
On my 16” AR’s my buffer weights are at 4.3 or heavier and I use springco red. 3:30 to 4:00 ejections all day. Also install 5 coil extractor springs and upgrade extractor. ???
I think maybe an even simpler analogy is that it’s common knowledge that putting a can in a gas operated rifle wouldn’t be that reliable since there’s more gas due to more dwell time. It’s less consistent and less reliable because of that gas. It may have enough oomph to power through, but too much and it’ll cause wear and tear while caking up the receiver. In the end, that much gas wouldn’t do much if there’s so much burnt up carbon in the receiver, more so when having much more hot gasses recirculated into the system would burn off all the oil and lubricant.
Woo Hoo..! New Clint video by god..!
Great informational video,
Thank you sir.
How often do you see malfunctions in adjustable gas blocks? I really prefer non-adjustable myself, but sometimes I need adjustment on some over gassed systems...and I am curious...which is more likely to fail, a mildly over-gassed system, or an adjustable gas block? Thanks.
Adjustable gas block for the most part. Slightly over gassed is not an issue for the most part. You gotta be pretty horrendously over gassed to experience what he is talking about. For example, if you have an ar that ejects at the 2:00 without a suppressor and then add a suppressor, you are going to end up having a bad time. Lots of different variables, some times ejection pattern alone can be misleading, also some suppressors are better than others at back pressure.
Cool, so it's supposed to hit the deflector
Nice, thanks for the info!
Just bought a new rifle and the previous owner was running it so over gassed a cartridge was ejected, bounced off the brass deflector and back into the chamber jamming the gun.
Thanks brother!
Thank you!
Got one of you uppers if you hold it like a pistol last round hold doesn’t work but if you put it to you shoulder it does 300 blackout 10inch
If I turn up my gas block and over gas, my BCG gets all icky.
That burrito I ate over gassed my ass.
my brass is coming out at slightly past 3 oclock
Thanks
Good topic
What about locking lugs wear and therefore enlarging the head space due to lack of gas? Should I be afraid, that redusing the volume of gas would mean that locking lugs would not be pushed forward enough while being turned ???(therefore it would wear quicker)
How do you solve the over gas issue on a DI gun? Mine ejects at 4 o'clock un-suppressed, but forward when suppressed. I'm using a Sharps adjustable gas BCG and Armaspec H2 silent buffer spring.
Besides observing direction and strength of case ejections, are there any other indicators of over/under gassing to look for?
When is the Cage device coming back???
I’m currently taking suggestions on how to fix my over gassed DDM4v7 suppressed with a hybrid 46 it is ejt at 2… and ive put as much of a weighted buffer as i can find 5.8 ozs
The amount of ignorance on this topic in general is staggering. Some of it I understand, as there is often too much nuance in the discussion for some to follow along. But I have had several conversations with people about the AR gas system that ended with my realization that they don't even understand what 'over-gassed' or other basic terminology means, or at the very least how those terms relate to what is physically happening with the gun.
'Carbine-length gas systems are good enough, but if you have a choice then mid-length would be more beneficial for a 16" rifle.'
'No no no, I *want* a carbine-length gas system so it's over-gassed and more reliable. I'd even take a 20" barrel with a carbine system if I could.'
'... carbine-length does not equal over-gassed ...'
'Yeah, I'm really enjoying the KP-15 lower. I threw my A4 upper on it, and it was lighter than some 16" guns.'
'Wait, you mean you had a rifle-length upper on a carbine-length lower!?'
'Uh, yeah?'
'It could have blown up! The pressures are too different!'
'... nope ...'
As Mike from SOLGW said, ejection is ejection. Cause every time you shoot is a different animal. It’s never lubed the same way, or as clean as it was the time before. So long as it ejects, who cares?
What if my AR is overgassed and have weak ejection? Like barely spitting the casings
If this is true then how are AK's able to be so reliable despite these horrible issues that happen when they are overgassed
--How do you fix over gassing might be a good video...
One thing even with proper gassed adjustable gas blocks: gas port erosion
As you use the rifle more and more, there is more erosion to the port. In Layman's terms: hole gets bigger, so ejection might be stronger now. Not crazy more, but more.
So technically you could dial gas back sometime during first 1000 rounds, but I personally don't touch the gas block after I gas it properly on some weak PMC Bronze 223, or Federal American Eagle 223. Both are very underpowered, and it allows me to gas to the weak round and all 5.56 will run then.
PMC Bronze 223 is more anemic than American Eagle 223.
Before the war with Russia, I was using Wolf/Tula to gas my rifles to that weak crap.
No more supplying them with money, indirectly supporting war in Ukraine. No thank you.
I used to think gas port erosion was a ''thing''or a problem until recently. I just replaced the barrel on a 1986 Colt HBAR with appox. 10,000 rounds for a lighter gov. profile. After removing the A-2 front sight base I noticed the gas port was not eroded at all. the port size was .091. The dept of the hole was appox.270. Only .080 off the rifling was eroded. The rest of the port was perfect. The chrome on the throat and about 1/4 forward was gone,with bad fire cracking for another 1/4 inch. The crown shows wear. The rest of the bore was in very good condition. Note this was a semi -auto gun it whole life.
@@tonyc223 I believe you, but I wonder, maybe you are seeing that gas port with caked on carbon now, and carbon is actually quite good at filling in some imperfections on any surface. Maybe, it just looks like it didn't erode because carbon did its business in the gas port.
I don't know about you, but I never clean my gas port, and obviously I am not looking at the same barrel as you. Perhaps you are absolutely right.
Though...CMV is EXTREMELY strong material, so it may not be that surprising.
Recently I was drilling for 2 gas block dimples on CMV/Nitrided barrel. My God! I forgot just how strong the surface of Nitride barrel is. I was drilling for so long, I ran out of patience and ended up breaking the cobalt drill bit by pressing into the barrel, because it was not making a leeway. Stainless steel drilling is smooth as butter in comparison.
I expect gas port erosion personally, but I speculate gas port erosion shows up under sustained fire, even if it's semi-auto, just rapid fire trigger pressing. To the point the metal becomes extremely hot, and then it becomes malleable, and then it can warp or shift. 50 thousand PSI will erode it then no question. For slow firing...probably not. So, I do think erosion happens, just not to the military extent, I know in my case I have zero ejection issues with adjustable gas block even thousands of rounds after. It did not get worse, but is constantly caked with carbon, so it has to be more eroded in my case, otherwise there would be a time when it would just stop cycling from carbon. Something that I read from Centurion Barrel yesterday is that CMV barrel will last for 17,000 rounds, and Stainless will only last max of 7000, and most replace the barrel at 2000 as the rep said, as accuracy is already shifting then.
I don't know about you, but I can easily go through 2000 rounds in about a year on same barrel. I would not build a rifle with stainless if I knew that. I have Centurion stainless steel. In fact I am coming back to CMV for that reason. I don't think you are wrong, but you are not wrong because you don't shoot enough to get to that point, and you have CMV barrel, that's my thought. I saw gas port erosion on some of my barrels
If cases on a ak is leaving dents on case does that mean it's over gassed? Same for psl? Thanks
I heard the best example of this.
You just bought a new car. Are you going to slam the gas every single time you need to accelerate? If you do, you ruin your car much quicker, than if you just accelerate normally as needed.
Looking for some advice. 11.3 hanson barrel with pinned GB, and Aero/BA everything else running a sandman s. Overcycling to the point of stovepipes/failure to eject. Running a standard weight buffer and spring. first thought was to get an H2 or H3? or maybe a sprinco setup.
SpikesT-2 buffer and a Sprinco blue spring. As a starting point. H-3 might be too much.
For someone like me who bought a factory made rifle and is thinking about a build for the first time, how do you avoid this problem?
Buy a barrel from a manufacturer that drills proper-sized gas ports for the barrel length you're looking for.
I’m having a problem with mine. It’ll lock back on last round but it has bad cycling issue when trying to re chamber a round someone told me it’s under gassed but it does lock back. Does too much gas cause it to constantly not feed and what would I need to do to fix it?
I currently have a rig thats over gassed and thinking an adjustable gas block will help mitigate that problem. Am i correct?
Don't talk about it, be about it.
I have a 14.5 Hanson performance barrel with a carbine buffer spring and buffer. It shoots fine but is over gassed. What do you recommend?
Spikes t-2 buffer and Sprinco blue spring.
So how do you fix it?
Yes my logically friend. Drama being nessary in some instances.Very well delivered and dang if you aint just a manly lookin
Has anyone designed an adustable gas tube?
What diameter do you drill your gas ports?
What size is the gas port on your 10.5" Modern?
Aren’t all AR platforms that are not at least the same barrel length gas system and BCG as an old school M16 over gassed?
When the AR platform was designed, it was built in modification to a 20”, 5.56 (M193) M16 that troops were issued at the time. Now that you have anything less than 20”, you’re going to get less dwell time, barrel length dependent, may be significant if you have legs say a 10.5 but might not be as bad if you have say an 18” barrel. So with the thought process on here, you’re now looking to rob Peter to pay Paul in other critical parts of the system - gas blocks, bcg’s, buffers, even charging handles.
I understand the point and what the video is trying to address, however I still think I’d rather be a little over gassed than under gassed because METTTC dependent variables exist
thats... not how it works
Where’s Sarah?
She had 2 kids
Why didn't he talk about how to fix the overgassing? We all know over gassing is not good but a waste of a video without telling how to correct the problem.
Buy an adjustable gas block and fix the problem.....not hard
Weird energy.
i disagree. seems like clint has a bone to pick with overgassers and is getting it off his chest.
How much can over gassing be regulated by changing the buffer weight?
It’ll slow down the cyclic rate, but it won’t necessarily change the stress it’s putting on your bolt and extractor.
Controversial opinion: not enough. I'd change gas blocks and adjustable bolt carriers before messing with buffer weights, and then change barrels as a last ditch solution. Sorry if you don't have the tools to fix at home, it may be time to introduce yourself to your local smith.
@@ComeOnPelican91 There’s gas tubes out there with reduced ports. You don’t even need to change gas blocks
Thanks for the responses! I don't have problems with overgassing, was just wondering about buffer weight.
What about locking lugs wear and therefore enlarging the head space due to lack of gas? Should I be afraid, that redusing the volume of gas would mean that locking lugs would not be pushed forward enough while being turned ???(therefore it would wear quicker)