I had always seen the edge finders being used, but never understood why they jumped when they were in the right position. Telling us that it jumps when it "touches" made it all make sense! (because it's climbing!) Thank you!
I, as you might imagine, never made one of these (they’re so cheap!), so I’m not sure how the forces of the internal extension coil spring conspire with the surface finish between the mating surfaces between the parts to make the correct “slip / stick” balance to be overcome by the friction of the rotational .200” pin.?!?! Kind of an amazing gizmo, if you ask me, and so repeatable as to be completely trustworthy if done correctly! A machinist’s magic wand!
I recently discovered this channel and I am literally watching all the videos non-stop. First of all, congratulations, your way of explaining is very clear and precise. It is an immense pleasure to see an established professional and a true innovator, a rare thing in the field of electric guitars, share, with so much passion and spontaneity, his knowledge and his experience, formed by years of hard work, experimentation and many tests. Among so many tinkerers and instrument builders that populate TH-cam (some of them are good, let it be clear), who dispense advice on various construction aspects, unfortunately, often, showing off basic skills passed off as great professionalism, I can say, without fear of contradiction, that your channel is almost unique. They do entertainment, you do education. The topics are treated by you with extreme professionalism, without ostentation, which denotes your great knowledge of the subject. Your very in-depth skills are all at the service of the viewer without the need for frills. I express my deepest respect and thank you because seeing you, in addition to increasing my knowledge on a subject that I love, gives me a certain serenity that, in this period of my existence, is a feeling that I feel very rarely. I believe that your channel deserves a much greater amount of subscribers and views. Unfortunately, I realized that the algorithm (or, better said, the program code written by the computer scientists who develop TH-cam) tends to favor “circus freaks” or entertainers, rather than true professionals who have something to transmit. I greet you with a somewhat impertinent "request": if you ever decide to build electric guitars again, contact me, seeing your videos and your various innovations I imagined the project of an electric guitar that I would define as a sort of "Frankenstein". I started from your innovative construction processes and applied them to different areas of the instrument in order to be in line with my tastes. In this case, I didn't invent anything myself. Thanks again and congratulations. Luca Belfiore
I’ll bet that you didn’t think that you would be teaching metallurgy, machine tool jig setup, adhesive philosophy, metallurgy, and rolled threads vs cut threads when you took on this journey 😂. But you can break down complex technical issues into simple vernacular so well that every video is a masterpiece in instruction. If only today’s teaching allowed the rare talent evident in every aspect of the art of luthiers daily practice……the world would be a far better place. No question this time, just a humble thank you.
You’re right, I never did think about teaching, but now that I’m finding out how fun it is, and also how much I’m learning, I wish I’d started sooner. Thanks for your support and your kind words!
Hi Ken, Last night a friend and I saw the King Crimson "Beat" concert at the Paramount Theater in Denver. They were amazing. Front man Adrian Belew was using a Parker Fly almost exclusively to make incredible sounds, howling, wailing, screaming and singing sweetly. All while beaming a smile like the happiest person on the planet. The guitar is a slightly green-tinted gold sparkle finish with a whammy bar. I would be fascinated to know if Adrian just bought it off the shelf or if he worked with you to make such a special instrument. It was the star of the show.
I was fortunate enough to have seen them at a little venue in Phoenix around 70? Probably seventy to a hundred showed up, and when the band came on stage they requested the house lights to be switched on to see the audience. It wasn’t what they expected, but the commentator said “ well…I’m glad that you were able to show up “ and then proceeded to put on their show. I had not heard of this band before, it was my buddy who was responsible for us making the trip, and I was amazed at the performance. I have seen many of the great bands since, but have forgotten many also, but this night is still on the top of my list of bands I have been able to see. What a great show! 55 years later I can hear the intro to 21sr century schizoid man😊
I love edge finders! I demonstrated the use of one once to a middle manager at Beechcraft, and he was gobsmacked at how it worked. He thought it was some kind of magic. They are so useful in the machine shop, and a pleasure to think how much use I can get from such a simple and affordable tool. Nice Kurt vise, too. Such good workholding devices.
Great story, I can completely relate, and magic/gobsmacked isn't too strong a reaction to this amazingly precise and simple tool. The vise is the design of a couple of brothers, Charlie and Bill Ballou, who are friends and master machinists. They had them manuactured in a country far, far away, but never had the right marketing levers to get them out into the world, sadly. Until you have one, it's impossible to imagine how many problems they solve. There isn't a better vise geoometry for a Bridgeport, I can promise you!
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 - Ken, have you ever seen Chick Vises? I made hundreds of set of jaws for them at Beech for the JPATS program. Every country that bought the planes got to make some of the parts on tools I made. That's pretty cool.
In my experience, working in a machiine shop was like going to graduate school. Most folks have no idea how "commonly used" objects in theirr life are created, and it's always been fascinating to me to dig in and find out how it all works. Ken Wisner, one of my menttors, was fond of saying "It's all the same machine!!!"
It continues to be a fun project, and it's very satisfying to have it all add up to such a reliable neck joint! Even now I am tweaking the processes and bits & pieces
Even more shapes than pasta, I believe! What a slick way to make a shaped x-section; the cost of the die is modest. It's too bad there aren't more materiaals that extrude so well, but we'll happily take the aluminum!
Since this method is "happiest" with a body deph of at least 2'' or 50 mm, it might not be best suited to thinner instrumentts and solidbodies, although some variant could be devised.
The neck joint seems to be the most innovative part of your very innovative guitars. Really brilliant stuff. I'm curious, which idea came first; the carbon reinforced neck or the neck joint? Can I also ask a follow up question to your previous video? Why would we want the neck to comply with varying forces? As I understand on an archtop such as yours the sound is determined almost entirely by the body and a flexible, compliant neck would rob the body of energy. Not to mention alter the geometry with different string gauges. Wouldn't we therefore want a perfectly rigid neck? Thanks again for taking the time time to answer and to share your knowledge.
Good question, the neck reinforcing came when I first started using carbon/epoxy to replace wood veneer on the back of the neck shaft. As you can see, the pin neck joint I’m using now is just a kind of extension of this fiber layer, so egg first, I guess. The only way I want the neck to comply by changing shape is to increase the relief in the first octave when heavier strings are applied. I took a chance on being misunderstood here, and now it seems like I should have explained my thinking in the film. Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse. To be clear, this compliance movement is TINY, and I very much want to retain the enormous stiffness improvement that the carbon/epoxy lends to the neck shaft.
My tailpiece attachment design is directly inspired by the style used in the Gamba instrument family. shop.stringking.net/tail-piece-tenor-alto-viol-maple-walnut-ebony-inlay.html In this early renaissance design, there is a small post of hard wood which is glued to the tailblock, projecting above the top. This post supports the tailpiece by passing through the rectangular hole that you can see in the above tailpiece. I'll suggest that this, not the folded metal plate you mention, is the traditional design. I first started using my variation of this design using a tailpiece of either wood or metal, supported by a ball on a rod in 1975, since which it has been copied in some way by many, many builders. What is new in instrument making? not much, as it turns out! Styles cycle in and out of fashion, just as they do in clothing and other common articles!
Fascinating as always Ken...what a great neck attachment system. I realize that it has no appreciable effect on the function or stability of the junction, but I must admit that it bothers me to see the wooden core off-centered in the carbon fiber square.
I'm planning a film addressing the understanding of the word "tolerance" as it applies to our mechanical world. I don't like this slight misalignment anymore than you do, and it has vexed me for almost 20 years, so, just saying, I was bothered first! I have done everything in my power to control it. Sometimes it comes out perfect, or nearly so, and sometimes I mis-judge the arrangement of the wet carbon tubes as it gets ready to enter the mold, and it's a little bit off-center. This is how life shows us that we're always learning, and keeps us humble. I can promise you the guitar doesn't care one bit.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Sorry - in no way did I mean to indicate that you were being lax in your dedication to the craft...it's just that your instruments are as flawless looking as I've ever seen...so a tiny (and seemingly uncontrollable) visual imperfection only stands out when something is otherwise basically perfect.
Ken a differential pitch thread is two rh threads with different pitches which when you screw them in they slowly move apart giving incredibly fine adjustment.
So right you are, I mis-spoke, and not for the first time, I can assure you. Thanks for catching this. This screw design works beautifully on many low angle block planes to adjustt the depth of cut. Thanks for catching this!
Wow Ken your drill press is amazing! So much more advanced than what we had in my high school "Industrial arts" class in the early '70s! What's the story on acquisition of this fine machinery? Thanks. Tom😎
Ha! This machine is my trusty Bridgeport Milling Machine, first built in the '30's, and one of the reasons we don't speak German. Look it up on TH-cam, and maybe get one, they're cheap these days.
This "unavoidable" thread backlash doesn't mar the function of the neck adjustment because the neck is retained by friction, and only moved, and not restrained by the force exerted by the clamp screw fastener. You can assemble the instrument without the clamp screw and it will work just the same, except you'll need to tune it down, and take some pressure off the assembly in order to change the action by moving the neck in or out.
Aha makes sense, thanks for showing this process! Your experience with threaded inserts / helicoils, and especially your clever spline shaft solution, was super interesting. I also really appreciate the precision jigs and custom tools. Can’t wait to see the rest of the series!
Cool stuff! Makes me wonder if that design could be more precision machined metal, less composite. Maybe a more conventional neck, etc. with aluminum post. Working in tenths can be fun and “real world” but temperature comes in to play. More an airplane landing gear parts thing than guitars I guess. Amazing stiffness on that neck.
There are so many ways to do this! I chose to use carbon, but aluminum, or other metaals could work well also. I have seen a version using ebony for the pin, which I wouldn't choose to do, although reports are it workd fine. Lots of ways to the mountaintop.
I love these videos, the erudite presentation, humor, and your laugh :) I am curious on your thoughts of Graph Tech's RATIO tuners and the balance between ease of use and precision. For anyone not familiar each string tuner has its own gear ratio so that 1/2 turn is approximately one semi-tone. I am also curious what your thoughts on patents vs stifling innovation. For example; PRS, Wilkinson, and Gotoh have all recently developed standard Fender tremolos with locking saddles which pair nicely with modern graphite nuts and locking tuners. I would posit Floyd Rose's aggressive patent defense stifled development of these innovations relegating guitarists and manufacturers to inferior designs for decades. Cheers!
Thanks for your appreciation and extravagant praise! I'm not sure how I would adapt to the ratio tuners, having a trained muscle memory/biofeedback system in place for 50+ years that now automatically corrects for the differences that these pegs even out mechanically, and thus would be at odds with how they work. Some folks may like them, but it seems like it might be one of those things that's trying to answer a question that no-one was asking. I did recieve a sample set to evaluate, but I don't know what I would ever attach them to, as they are way too giant and heavy for my work. As to patenting, wow, it's a deep subject, and I'm no expert. What I will say is that the defense of a patent is not the same thing as preventing other manufacturers from sharing in the benefit of it. Normally, the only thing needed is an agreement and a modest royalty paid to the inventor, typically 3% for utility patents like this. I don't know anything about the back door conversations between these companies that might have occurred, but even if Floyd was playing hardball and refusing to make a deal, I hardly think that Floyd's locking bridge saddles are required to design a great vibrato system. I think, for example, that the vibrato system that I designed for the Fly Guitar is just as good at staying in tune, Way more versitile, in that it can easily be reconfigured by the player, while in playing position, without the need to re-tune (Big plus, no bench time required) without tools, to behave as a fixed bridge, a down - bending only bridge, or floating vibrato bridge. The only example of what you cite that really hits hard for me is Thaddeus McHugh's 1923 patent on the adjustable truss rod located within the neck, assigned to his employer, the Gibson Mandolin and Guitar Co. This patent expired in 1940, whereupon the truss rod quickly snuck into nearly every steel string neck. Again, I don't know if Epiphone or others tried and failed to licence it, I suppose we'll never know.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 That has been my experience with the graph tech tuners, lol. Those are good points about patents and innovation. It amazes me how once a race time, benchmark, or other feat is accomplished others know they can strive for it and succeed. I guess that is the overarching impetus to innovation patents provide. Thank you for your reply and especially taking the time. Cheers!
If you wanted to get totally crazy, you could replace the straight pin at the "best average angle" with a curved pin and tube that describe an arc of appropriate radius (IE: nut line to pin center). This would rotate the neck (around the nut line) in relation to the body, instead of merely changing height. Nut to saddle distance would remain unchanged, thereby preserving tuning - and your almost perfect system becomes perfect. Pin fabrication might be problematic. A curved version of the turnbuckle (clamp screw) and tube should be doable. All custom machined, of course. Then the question becomes the hassle-to-benefit ratio (is it worth doing?). I love the use of off-the-shelf components in the form of 1x1 aluminum square stock. Home Depot parts in a guitar that made it into the Met!
First, let's agree that there is no perfect, and here the obvious example is that you can't design an action adjustment system that both keeps the strings at the same tension in order to preserve their pitch, and also adjusts the string length, or compensation so that he guitar intonates properly at the new action height. Nice idea though! As you seem to suggest, implementing this would be diffficult, fussy and strike the sensible utility of being able to source useful components at the hardware store (Bring your micrometer, every run is different!!!). Pin fabrication, and the mating parts would indeed be problematic. Did you do the math and see how much this would change how the joint works, or is that a joint in your hand? Seriously, it's fun to split hairs, but if you had one of my guitars and a tuner in front of you, I think you would agree that this works very, very well. Most everyone declines to re-tune after an action adjustment, often exclaiming "oh, it's still in tune!" the first time they try it. In the real world, action adjustments are very small movements, and the other consequences of repositioning the neck are also very small. Nice splitting hairs with you!
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 lost my original reply. In brief: If users can't hear a difference, its good enough. Assuming your pin is at the 15th fret on a fender scale length and you have +/- 0.25" action adjustment range, the difference between a straight pin and a curved pin works out to about 0.002" change in scale length at maximum adjustment. No wonder they can't hear a difference. Obviously not worth it.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Here's the math: let P = nut line to pin center distance. Let A = 1/2 the adjustment range of the pin. Let H = the hypotenuse of a right triangle with rise A and run P. H = sqrt(P*P+A*A). The difference between a straight and curved pin at maximum adjustment is H-P.
Hi Ken. Thanks for this - so clever! When I first figured it out I searched for dual-ended (L-R) studs and found some in 6mm here in the UK, but of course they're too long, and they're designed to be turned with a wrench in the middle :¬( For my prototype I cut one down, and cut a slot in one end (I have no facility to broach) - it works, but it's certainly not pretty. Anyway, just to say that since the last time you were there, Mac-it have added metric clamp screws, so I'll definitely get some :¬)) That's a really useful site, but I'll have to check postage :¬( A quick question - you say the neck is at a slight angle. Can you say what that angle is, and how you derived it?
I'm glad to hear about the metric offerings from Mac-It. Problem solved. In Neck Journey 21, at about 1:00, is the answer to your question as best as I can communicate it, it's pretty simple really, just square to the string @ rest.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Ken, thanks again. I'm waiting for some info from Mac-It but I fear postage will be a killer for non-US residents. On the other question, if my trig is correct, the angle between the strings and the fretboard is around 0.13°, which is far below my ability even to measure, let alone build to. I remain astounded at the finesse in your instruments.
Ken.....I'm curious why you use spruce as an insert in the carbon post and not aluminum or some other more robust material? .........I thought aluminum bonded well with carbon fiber when using epoxy as an adhesive......I somehow missed the episode where you do the layup that results in the carbon post.....such intriguing guitars......I wish I could afford one.....do you need a sports car? I'll trade you a 95 lotus esprit S4 in superb condition for one
I suspect the mighty spruce might be a little insulted to hear you talk down her robustitude. Firstly, there isn't much left of this pin by the time it all takes shape, a big part of itt is drilled out to recieve thr neck adjusting bushing, so there's that. If you wanted to choose a stiffer material, you might consider a carbon/epoxy rod, but see above. In fact, as I explained, it's the carbon / epoxy near the outside surfaces of the square pin which takes the loads, and not the material near the center, whtever material it is. Aluminum bonding to carbon - epoxy is tricky because this combination is a corrosion nightmare. I now avoid it, having had some struggles with this combination over the years on a variety of projects. I knw there's a lot to this darrn neck journey, but I'm trying not to miss anything, so maybe go back and see the ones you missed. How many owners, and what color S4? Existential question at it's simplest, "Do you need a sports car?" Doesn't everyone?
What is the neck pin angle? Theoretically could it be curved to the diameter of the scale length? I would love a visual of how the neck adjustment moves the action 🙏🏼 P.S. thank you so much for making these videos!! I love my 90s nitefly and fly standard and now I have to try to build a Ken style archtop!
How great that you want to biild yourself an archtop!! Exactly what I'd hoped! Have a blast! Today everyone uses a screen and a program to "get a visual" on how... Me, it's paper and straightedge all the way. Go for it! For the neck pin angle, you'll want to position the pin square to the strings at rest for the best results, not square to the fingerboard surface. To determine this very small angle, just divide half the scale length into the string action height at the 12th fret. A quick calculation shows that, assuming a moderate 2mm, or .080" string action at the 12th fret, and a scale length of 25.5", we get a taper of .006"/inch, or about 1/3 degree. As I just mentioned in a reply to another commentator with a similar question about the utility of curving the neck pin's path of travel........ @kenparkerarchtoppery9440 • 0 seconds ago First, let's agree that there is no perfect, and here the obvious example is that you can't design an action adjustment system that both keeps the strings at the same tension in order to preserve their pitch, and also adjusts the string length, or compensation so that he guitar intonates properly at the new action height. Nice idea though! As you seem to suggest, implementing this would be diffficult, fussy and strike the sensible utility of being able to source useful components at the hardware store (Bring your micrometer, every run is different!!!). Pin fabrication, and the mating parts would indeed be problematic. Did you do the math and see how much this would change how the joint works, or is that a joint in your hand? Seriously, it's fun to split hairs, but if you had one of my guitars and a tuner in front of you, I think you would agree that this works very, very well. Most everyone declines to re-tune after an action adjustment, often exclaiming "oh, it's still in tune!" the first time they try it. In the real world, action adjustments are very small movements, and the other consequences of repositioning the neck are also very small.
I had always seen the edge finders being used, but never understood why they jumped when they were in the right position. Telling us that it jumps when it "touches" made it all make sense! (because it's climbing!) Thank you!
I, as you might imagine, never made one of these (they’re so cheap!), so I’m not sure how the forces of the internal extension coil spring conspire with the surface finish between the mating surfaces between the parts to make the correct “slip / stick” balance to be overcome by the friction of the rotational .200” pin.?!?!
Kind of an amazing gizmo, if you ask me, and so repeatable as to be completely trustworthy if done correctly! A machinist’s magic wand!
I recently discovered this channel and I am literally watching all the videos non-stop. First of all, congratulations, your way of explaining is very clear and precise. It is an immense pleasure to see an established professional and a true innovator, a rare thing in the field of electric guitars, share, with so much passion and spontaneity, his knowledge and his experience, formed by years of hard work, experimentation and many tests. Among so many tinkerers and instrument builders that populate TH-cam (some of them are good, let it be clear), who dispense advice on various construction aspects, unfortunately, often, showing off basic skills passed off as great professionalism, I can say, without fear of contradiction, that your channel is almost unique. They do entertainment, you do education. The topics are treated by you with extreme professionalism, without ostentation, which denotes your great knowledge of the subject. Your very in-depth skills are all at the service of the viewer without the need for frills. I express my deepest respect and thank you because seeing you, in addition to increasing my knowledge on a subject that I love, gives me a certain serenity that, in this period of my existence, is a feeling that I feel very rarely. I believe that your channel deserves a much greater amount of subscribers and views. Unfortunately, I realized that the algorithm (or, better said, the program code written by the computer scientists who develop TH-cam) tends to favor “circus freaks” or entertainers, rather than true professionals who have something to transmit. I greet you with a somewhat impertinent "request": if you ever decide to build electric guitars again, contact me, seeing your videos and your various innovations I imagined the project of an electric guitar that I would define as a sort of "Frankenstein". I started from your innovative construction processes and applied them to different areas of the instrument in order to be in line with my tastes. In this case, I didn't invent anything myself. Thanks again and congratulations. Luca Belfiore
That was a special project, alright. Adrian s a treasure!
I’ll bet that you didn’t think that you would be teaching metallurgy, machine tool jig setup, adhesive philosophy, metallurgy, and rolled threads vs cut threads when you took on this journey 😂. But you can break down complex technical issues into simple vernacular so well that every video is a masterpiece in instruction. If only today’s teaching allowed the rare talent evident in every aspect of the art of luthiers daily practice……the world would be a far better place. No question this time, just a humble thank you.
You’re right, I never did think about teaching, but now that I’m finding out how fun it is, and also how much I’m learning, I wish I’d started sooner. Thanks for your support and your kind words!
I've been waiting for this! Thank you for al the fine details on every operation Ken.
It's my pleasure, thanks for your interest!
Hi Ken, Last night a friend and I saw the King Crimson "Beat" concert at the Paramount Theater in Denver. They were amazing. Front man Adrian Belew was using a Parker Fly almost exclusively to make incredible sounds, howling, wailing, screaming and singing sweetly. All while beaming a smile like the happiest person on the planet. The guitar is a slightly green-tinted gold sparkle finish with a whammy bar. I would be fascinated to know if Adrian just bought it off the shelf or if he worked with you to make such a special instrument. It was the star of the show.
I was fortunate enough to have seen them at a little venue in Phoenix around 70? Probably seventy to a hundred showed up, and when the band came on stage they requested the house lights to be switched on to see the audience. It wasn’t what they expected, but the commentator said “ well…I’m glad that you were able to show up “ and then proceeded to put on their show. I had not heard of this band before, it was my buddy who was responsible for us making the trip, and I was amazed at the performance. I have seen many of the great bands since, but have forgotten many also, but this night is still on the top of my list of bands I have been able to see. What a great show! 55 years later I can hear the intro to 21sr century schizoid man😊
I love edge finders! I demonstrated the use of one once to a middle manager at Beechcraft, and he was gobsmacked at how it worked. He thought it was some kind of magic. They are so useful in the machine shop, and a pleasure to think how much use I can get from such a simple and affordable tool. Nice Kurt vise, too. Such good workholding devices.
Great story, I can completely relate, and magic/gobsmacked isn't too strong a reaction to this amazingly precise and simple tool.
The vise is the design of a couple of brothers, Charlie and Bill Ballou, who are friends and master machinists. They had them manuactured in a country far, far away, but never had the right marketing levers to get them out into the world, sadly. Until you have one, it's impossible to imagine how many problems they solve. There isn't a better vise geoometry for a Bridgeport, I can promise you!
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 - Ken, have you ever seen Chick Vises? I made hundreds of set of jaws for them at Beech for the JPATS program. Every country that bought the planes got to make some of the parts on tools I made. That's pretty cool.
Wow ! Nice tooling! Thanks, this is tthe first I've heard of them.
This is the video I've been awaiting. I really appreciate the in depth explanation of your design. Simply genius 👏 👌
10000%
So glad you're digging this. It's my pleasure to spell it all out.
Absolutely fascinating Ken. The engineering involved in making such beautiful instruments is staggering.
Thanks! Solving "mechaanical" problems has always fasscinated me.
Beautiful ideas, Explanations and Demonstration...As always! Thank you.
Thanks so much, glad it's helpful!
Many thanks, and so glad you get it.
I once worked for a machine shop that made parts for various extrusion processes. Learned a ton.
In my experience, working in a machiine shop was like going to graduate school. Most folks have no idea how "commonly used" objects in theirr life are created, and it's always been fascinating to me to dig in and find out how it all works. Ken Wisner, one of my menttors, was fond of saying "It's all the same machine!!!"
Geez, what a engineering journey! Really interesting(as always).👍🇨🇦
It continues to be a fun project, and it's very satisfying to have it all add up to such a reliable neck joint! Even now I am tweaking the processes and bits & pieces
elegance overload! thanks sir for sharing your magic with us
Aw shucks, it's just nuts and bolts.
Wow Ken, I’ve been waiting for this one, worth the wait!
Glad you like it, it's been a nice puzzle to solve, and the solution is still evolving!
Thanks Ken. I have so much aluminum extrusion around. Great stuff.
Even more shapes than pasta, I believe! What a slick way to make a shaped x-section; the cost of the die is modest. It's too bad there aren't more materiaals that extrude so well, but we'll happily take the aluminum!
Wow. Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
thank you so much to share this !
It's my great pleasure!
Thats a unique and beautiful neck joint for sure :)
I'd love to see it applied to and electric guitar.
Since this method is "happiest" with a body deph of at least 2'' or 50 mm, it might not be best suited to thinner instrumentts and solidbodies, although some variant could be devised.
The neck joint seems to be the most innovative part of your very innovative guitars. Really brilliant stuff. I'm curious, which idea came first; the carbon reinforced neck or the neck joint?
Can I also ask a follow up question to your previous video? Why would we want the neck to comply with varying forces? As I understand on an archtop such as yours the sound is determined almost entirely by the body and a flexible, compliant neck would rob the body of energy. Not to mention alter the geometry with different string gauges. Wouldn't we therefore want a perfectly rigid neck? Thanks again for taking the time time to answer and to share your knowledge.
Good question, the neck reinforcing came when I first started using carbon/epoxy to replace wood veneer on the back of the neck shaft. As you can see, the pin neck joint I’m using now is just a kind of extension of this fiber layer, so egg first, I guess.
The only way I want the neck to comply by changing shape is to increase the relief in the first octave when heavier strings are applied. I took a chance on being misunderstood here, and now it seems like I should have explained my thinking in the film. Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse. To be clear, this compliance movement is TINY, and I very much want to retain the enormous stiffness improvement that the carbon/epoxy lends to the neck shaft.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Thank you for elaborating Ken.
Incredible! So curious about the tailpiece. It seems so different compared to the traditional tail piece that folds over the body's end.
My tailpiece attachment design is directly inspired by the style used in the Gamba instrument family.
shop.stringking.net/tail-piece-tenor-alto-viol-maple-walnut-ebony-inlay.html
In this early renaissance design, there is a small post of hard wood which is glued to the tailblock, projecting above the top. This post supports the tailpiece by passing through the rectangular hole that you can see in the above tailpiece.
I'll suggest that this, not the folded metal plate you mention, is the traditional design.
I first started using my variation of this design using a tailpiece of either wood or metal, supported by a ball on a rod in 1975, since which it has been copied in some way by many, many builders.
What is new in instrument making? not much, as it turns out!
Styles cycle in and out of fashion, just as they do in clothing and other common articles!
Fascinating as always Ken...what a great neck attachment system.
I realize that it has no appreciable effect on the function or stability of the junction, but I must admit that it bothers me to see the wooden core off-centered in the carbon fiber square.
I'm planning a film addressing the understanding of the word "tolerance" as it applies to our mechanical world. I don't like this slight misalignment anymore than you do, and it has vexed me for almost 20 years, so, just saying, I was bothered first! I have done everything in my power to control it. Sometimes it comes out perfect, or nearly so, and sometimes I mis-judge the arrangement of the wet carbon tubes as it gets ready to enter the mold, and it's a little bit off-center. This is how life shows us that we're always learning, and keeps us humble. I can promise you the guitar doesn't care one bit.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Sorry - in no way did I mean to indicate that you were being lax in your dedication to the craft...it's just that your instruments are as flawless looking as I've ever seen...so a tiny (and seemingly uncontrollable) visual imperfection only stands out when something is otherwise basically perfect.
Ken a differential pitch thread is two rh threads with different pitches which when you screw them in they slowly move apart giving incredibly fine adjustment.
So right you are, I mis-spoke, and not for the first time, I can assure you. Thanks for catching this. This screw design works beautifully on many low angle block planes to adjustt the depth of cut.
Thanks for catching this!
Wow Ken your drill press is amazing! So much more advanced than what we had in my high school "Industrial arts" class in the early '70s! What's the story on acquisition of this fine machinery? Thanks. Tom😎
Ha! This machine is my trusty Bridgeport Milling Machine, first built in the '30's, and one of the reasons we don't speak German.
Look it up on TH-cam, and maybe get one, they're cheap these days.
My wife is watching Masterchef... I'm checking out Masterluthier 🤣
Ha! I suspect she'll eat better, althoough I have been encouraged to do some riffs in the shop kitchen, you never know....
Awesome video! What do you do about backlash / slop in the neck adjustment clamp screw? Do you have to undersize the female threads slightly?
This "unavoidable" thread backlash doesn't mar the function of the neck adjustment because the neck is retained by friction, and only moved, and not restrained by the force exerted by the clamp screw fastener. You can assemble the instrument without the clamp screw and it will work just the same, except you'll need to tune it down, and take some pressure off the assembly in order to change the action by moving the neck in or out.
Aha makes sense, thanks for showing this process! Your experience with threaded inserts / helicoils, and especially your clever spline shaft solution, was super interesting. I also really appreciate the precision jigs and custom tools. Can’t wait to see the rest of the series!
Cool stuff! Makes me wonder if that design could be more precision machined metal, less composite. Maybe a more conventional neck, etc. with aluminum post. Working in tenths can be fun and “real world” but temperature comes in to play. More an airplane landing gear parts thing than guitars I guess. Amazing stiffness on that neck.
There are so many ways to do this! I chose to use carbon, but aluminum, or other metaals could work well also. I have seen a version using ebony for the pin, which I wouldn't choose to do, although reports are it workd fine. Lots of ways to the mountaintop.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Not many reach that summit you stand on.
I love these videos, the erudite presentation, humor, and your laugh :) I am curious on your thoughts of Graph Tech's RATIO tuners and the balance between ease of use and precision. For anyone not familiar each string tuner has its own gear ratio so that 1/2 turn is approximately one semi-tone.
I am also curious what your thoughts on patents vs stifling innovation. For example; PRS, Wilkinson, and Gotoh have all recently developed standard Fender tremolos with locking saddles which pair nicely with modern graphite nuts and locking tuners. I would posit Floyd Rose's aggressive patent defense stifled development of these innovations relegating guitarists and manufacturers to inferior designs for decades. Cheers!
Thanks for your appreciation and extravagant praise!
I'm not sure how I would adapt to the ratio tuners, having a trained muscle memory/biofeedback system in place for 50+ years that now automatically corrects for the differences that these pegs even out mechanically, and thus would be at odds with how they work. Some folks may like them, but it seems like it might be one of those things that's trying to answer a question that no-one was asking.
I did recieve a sample set to evaluate, but I don't know what I would ever attach them to, as they are way too giant and heavy for my work.
As to patenting, wow, it's a deep subject, and I'm no expert. What I will say is that the defense of a patent is not the same thing as preventing other manufacturers from sharing in the benefit of it. Normally, the only thing needed is an agreement and a modest royalty paid to the inventor, typically 3% for utility patents like this. I don't know anything about the back door conversations between these companies that might have occurred, but even if Floyd was playing hardball and refusing to make a deal, I hardly think that Floyd's locking bridge saddles are required to design a great vibrato system.
I think, for example, that the vibrato system that I designed for the Fly Guitar is just as good at staying in tune, Way more versitile, in that it can easily be reconfigured by the player, while in playing position, without the need to re-tune (Big plus, no bench time required) without tools, to behave as a fixed bridge, a down - bending only bridge, or floating vibrato bridge.
The only example of what you cite that really hits hard for me is Thaddeus McHugh's 1923 patent on the adjustable truss rod located within the neck, assigned to his employer, the Gibson Mandolin and Guitar Co.
This patent expired in 1940, whereupon the truss rod quickly snuck into nearly every steel string neck. Again, I don't know if Epiphone or others tried and failed to licence it, I suppose we'll never know.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 That has been my experience with the graph tech tuners, lol.
Those are good points about patents and innovation. It amazes me how once a race time, benchmark, or other feat is accomplished others know they can strive for it and succeed. I guess that is the overarching impetus to innovation patents provide.
Thank you for your reply and especially taking the time. Cheers!
If you wanted to get totally crazy, you could replace the straight pin at the "best average angle" with a curved pin and tube that describe an arc of appropriate radius (IE: nut line to pin center). This would rotate the neck (around the nut line) in relation to the body, instead of merely changing height. Nut to saddle distance would remain unchanged, thereby preserving tuning - and your almost perfect system becomes perfect. Pin fabrication might be problematic. A curved version of the turnbuckle (clamp screw) and tube should be doable. All custom machined, of course. Then the question becomes the hassle-to-benefit ratio (is it worth doing?). I love the use of off-the-shelf components in the form of 1x1 aluminum square stock. Home Depot parts in a guitar that made it into the Met!
First, let's agree that there is no perfect, and here the obvious example is that you can't design an action adjustment system that both keeps the strings at the same tension in order to preserve their pitch, and also adjusts the string length, or compensation so that he guitar intonates properly at the new action height.
Nice idea though! As you seem to suggest, implementing this would be diffficult, fussy and strike the sensible utility of being able to source useful components at the hardware store (Bring your micrometer, every run is different!!!).
Pin fabrication, and the mating parts would indeed be problematic. Did you do the math and see how much this would change how the joint works, or is that a joint in your hand?
Seriously, it's fun to split hairs, but if you had one of my guitars and a tuner in front of you, I think you would agree that this works very, very well. Most everyone declines to re-tune after an action adjustment, often exclaiming "oh, it's still in tune!" the first time they try it. In the real world, action adjustments are very small movements, and the other consequences of repositioning the neck are also very small.
Nice splitting hairs with you!
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 lost my original reply. In brief: If users can't hear a difference, its good enough. Assuming your pin is at the 15th fret on a fender scale length and you have +/- 0.25" action adjustment range, the difference between a straight pin and a curved pin works out to about 0.002" change in scale length at maximum adjustment. No wonder they can't hear a difference. Obviously not worth it.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Here's the math: let P = nut line to pin center distance. Let A = 1/2 the adjustment range of the pin. Let H = the hypotenuse of a right triangle with rise A and run P. H = sqrt(P*P+A*A). The difference between a straight and curved pin at maximum adjustment is H-P.
Hi Ken. Thanks for this - so clever! When I first figured it out I searched for dual-ended (L-R) studs and found some in 6mm here in the UK, but of course they're too long, and they're designed to be turned with a wrench in the middle :¬( For my prototype I cut one down, and cut a slot in one end (I have no facility to broach) - it works, but it's certainly not pretty. Anyway, just to say that since the last time you were there, Mac-it have added metric clamp screws, so I'll definitely get some :¬)) That's a really useful site, but I'll have to check postage :¬(
A quick question - you say the neck is at a slight angle. Can you say what that angle is, and how you derived it?
I'm glad to hear about the metric offerings from Mac-It. Problem solved.
In Neck Journey 21, at about 1:00, is the answer to your question as best as I can communicate it, it's pretty simple really, just square to the string @ rest.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Ken, thanks again. I'm waiting for some info from Mac-It but I fear postage will be a killer for non-US residents.
On the other question, if my trig is correct, the angle between the strings and the fretboard is around 0.13°, which is far below my ability even to measure, let alone build to. I remain astounded at the finesse in your instruments.
Ken.....I'm curious why you use spruce as an insert in the carbon post and not aluminum or some other more robust material? .........I thought aluminum bonded well with carbon fiber when using epoxy as an adhesive......I somehow missed the episode where you do the layup that results in the carbon post.....such intriguing guitars......I wish I could afford one.....do you need a sports car? I'll trade you a 95 lotus esprit S4 in superb condition for one
I suspect the mighty spruce might be a little insulted to hear you talk down her robustitude.
Firstly, there isn't much left of this pin by the time it all takes shape, a big part of itt is drilled out to recieve thr neck adjusting bushing, so there's that.
If you wanted to choose a stiffer material, you might consider a carbon/epoxy rod, but see above.
In fact, as I explained, it's the carbon / epoxy near the outside surfaces of the square pin which takes the loads, and not the material near the center, whtever material it is.
Aluminum bonding to carbon - epoxy is tricky because this combination is a corrosion nightmare. I now avoid it, having had some struggles with this combination over the years on a variety of projects.
I knw there's a lot to this darrn neck journey, but I'm trying not to miss anything, so maybe go back and see the ones you missed.
How many owners, and what color S4?
Existential question at it's simplest, "Do you need a sports car?" Doesn't everyone?
What is the neck pin angle? Theoretically could it be curved to the diameter of the scale length? I would love a visual of how the neck adjustment moves the action 🙏🏼
P.S. thank you so much for making these videos!! I love my 90s nitefly and fly standard and now I have to try to build a Ken style archtop!
How great that you want to biild yourself an archtop!! Exactly what I'd hoped! Have a blast!
Today everyone uses a screen and a program to "get a visual" on how...
Me, it's paper and straightedge all the way. Go for it!
For the neck pin angle, you'll want to position the pin square to the strings at rest for the best results, not square to the fingerboard surface. To determine this very small angle, just divide half the scale length into the string action height at the 12th fret. A quick calculation shows that, assuming a moderate 2mm, or .080" string action at the 12th fret, and a scale length of 25.5", we get a taper of .006"/inch, or about 1/3 degree. As I just mentioned in a reply to another commentator with a similar question about the utility of curving the neck pin's path of travel........
@kenparkerarchtoppery9440
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First, let's agree that there is no perfect, and here the obvious example is that you can't design an action adjustment system that both keeps the strings at the same tension in order to preserve their pitch, and also adjusts the string length, or compensation so that he guitar intonates properly at the new action height.
Nice idea though! As you seem to suggest, implementing this would be diffficult, fussy and strike the sensible utility of being able to source useful components at the hardware store (Bring your micrometer, every run is different!!!).
Pin fabrication, and the mating parts would indeed be problematic. Did you do the math and see how much this would change how the joint works, or is that a joint in your hand?
Seriously, it's fun to split hairs, but if you had one of my guitars and a tuner in front of you, I think you would agree that this works very, very well. Most everyone declines to re-tune after an action adjustment, often exclaiming "oh, it's still in tune!" the first time they try it. In the real world, action adjustments are very small movements, and the other consequences of repositioning the neck are also very small.
curious how the square hole is made in the neck block...
We're gonna get there. Clue is it happens in the Bridgeport Milling machine and uses a 1" square mortising bit for finishing the pocket.