In age of mythology, long ships can carry units, although very limited and not as good as transport but the longships are quite useful as multipurpose vessels and helping with early game harrasing. Interestingly, samurai having multiple attacks is given to the chinese special hero units in Age of Mythology, the name elude me but yea, they were armed with swords and short bows.
I noticed there can be an interesting bug when trying to make warships able to transport units, depending on the way it's implemented. At first I made it so that Longboats actually have the Transport Ship unit class, which causes them to be unable to attack automatically. On the other hand, it's possible to just give them garrison space while leaving them with the Warship class, but in that case, any unit that you want to be able to board ships will need to have the ability to do so. It gives some interesting nuance, for example I made it so that only infantry units are able to get onboard a Longboat, and they also have reduced transport capacity compared to Transport Ships. I've also been studying the idea to make them trainable, but I'm not totally sure how to make it balanced. The idea to make them able to cross land is pretty cool and historically accurate, too, I love it. Might implement it in the future, with credits given to your channel of course. I'm planning to make a naval-themed mod to make water combat more exciting so this would make Vikings very interesting.
Sounds very cool! In case you wanted the longboats to increase speed/building damage with garrisoned units, you can give them the siege weapon class (13). That way they can garrison infantry and archers, but only infantry will increase their speed. They'll mostly behave as normal ships, you just have to edit some of the technology effects (e.g. fletching, careening) to make them apply. As far as balance, I think having 4-6 resources and population worth of units is more than enough to balance their improved stats (if you go with that method). Or you could decrease their base speed slightly if you're worried about that.
Is an interesting idea, longboat ship with transport ship abilities. But for the possibility about traversing the land, i think that can be unblanced and/or open cheese possibility in which player can cheat or misuse this ability. For this reason I will implement thisfeature in a similar way of how trebuchet works: Ship can be dismounted/mounted only in proximity of beach/woad terrain, in this way it can be implemented in a fair way (and also it will be historically/logically accurate) and changing class from warship to siege, but I don't know if its possibile or not.
@@danilocaccamese9597 I believe that it might be possible, but I haven't really experienced with trebuchet-type morph yet. Perhaps this is a good occasion to give it a try. Mind you, I don't particularly care about balance and cheese potential either, I just want to do really cool and fun stuff.
Thanks, for everything I've shown so far I've made personal mods, although I haven't uploaded them. Some of them need a bit of polish and whatnot, but I'll be uploading more before long!
Straight answer: YES. Btw. Level of sea should in some way impact some ships. I mean ships like canoes, galleys or longboats (light and small ships) should be allowed to sail on shallow water on the other hand heavy ships like galleon, cannon galleon or caravels etc (heavy and large ships) shouldn’t be able to swim on these waters. So that would mean splitting galley from war gallery would be a thing and it wouldn’t be so bad. After all we have a trash trireme in original aoe and it didn’t turn out to be broken. Some ships would benefit from it, some wouldn’t. I think this mechanics would be pretty interesting.
Not a fan of mechanics that are only good for scenarios or ladder but not the other. I do like the idea of the longboat being able to work as a transport ship though, even if just for infantry as it better expands their niche. Honestly I’m sort of the opinion that all ships should be allowed to transport units and the dedicated transport ship should be focused on as a cheap weak option that can carry more than the others so it gives you a choice between having to build more expensive ships that can defend themselves or less cheaper ships that are vulnerable or compromise between the two somehow.
I hear ya. To be Frank (or rather Viking), I usually present ideas a bit more conservatively than I need to, with "scenario ideas" being a safe off-ramp for people who may be intrigued but aren't comfortable with the implications on ranked games and possible exploits. A small garrison-speed/attack boost could possibly be a normal game feature after one of the UTs or the Elite upgrade, and possibly even portage since the ships would be slow and vulnerable. But the main thing I'm trying to do here is open the door to ideas that I like, and the details can be hammered out in due course.
@@AdmiralWololo the moving a ship across land is a cool gimmick idea but ultimately if it’s just for scenarios the main thing that comes to my mind is that the same thing can be accomplished with some trigger sorcery so it really isn’t offering anything mechanically unique haha. That said, it IS a cool trick for scenarios and I agree with the Regnar scenario specifically the lack of focus on the longship despite its identity to Viking visuals is disappointing.
@@CappnRob I did scenario editing for years before this channel, and a lot of these features can't be created with triggers (otherwise I imagine a creative guy like Philly would have added them to his scenarios). So ships that could do these things would be a value-add even for scenarios. OTOH I do agree that it's best when things are applicable across a variety of modes or circumstances, and some of these ship abilities probably could be made to work as general changes.
On the other end of the spectrum the transport ship could be a fasster more armored option focused in ensuring you can make a landing under castle or tower fire in Exchange for a higer cost and giving no suport after the landing, in that case they need to be more expensive to reduce their value as bullet sponges during naval battles.
For transportation over land the long ship could become a sige tower reskin with 0 base speed and a larger speed bonus per guarisoned infrantry than the ram. As the trebuchet has a paking and unpaking animation and transport ships have a way of detecting land so you cannot place unitis in the midle of the water then the engine should be ablle to handle this idea.
Man the other day I had the same idea for a new civ, including the ram bonus! I didn't knew to what civ to give it tho. Scenarios with your mods would sound like a dream come true
Love your videos! Appreciate the effort in creating them and (mods). IMHO those who really care about Longboats having carry capacity are folks who enjoy the history aspect of the game (campaign). Carrying infantry units, increased speed per number of infantry units, longboat crossing across land in a non-combat mode are excellent ideas for campaigns and would love to see it on official campaigns or mods. Fishing is a bit of fishy😂 so Idk. On a regular Standard/multiplayer game mode, any unit should be balanced more than the historical significance.
Thanks! I agree that balance reigns supreme for standard games. I think that garrisoning could work there as a bit of flavor, but yes, most of the wilder suggestions are best saved for campaigns.
Thnaks for the video, I love those idea, even tho most of them may not make it to the game. I love the idea of longboats+berserkers to raid the shores, and would love to have it added to the game for more flavor! Having the carry capacity locked behind chieftains might be the way to go, then? Also, another idea: what if longboats could fish for food without dropping off, but instead of piling food it would heal the units inside the boat (in the case you would transport archers or other infantry).
Yeah, I think Chieftains is a safe lock so it wouldn't be broken in very early castle age. And fits thematically with the tech of Chiefs/Jarls encouraging their warriors to go on raids and collect plunder. Healing units with food is cool, ATM I don't know whether it could be done by modding though
It would be interesting if it were nerfed a bit to be an even match for galley line, but then when berserkers are riding, it gains additional arrows and speed.
Я помню в свое время переделывал торговые телеги в повозки с ресурсами, золото, камень, дерево и крестьяне могли их собирать, по сути перетаскивать ресурсы на склад или на мельницу без процесса сборки, просто как разгрузка машины.
Hey Admiral! Would be cool if you could upload a modding guide! Maybe even a walkthrough of you implementing a mod Might not be super popular, but I sure would love to see it!
I'll consider this, but ATM it's quite a bit on the lower side as far as priority. Might be more efficient to give general ideas of how things are done when I present them though. Also I am finally on discord now if people have specific questions.
This has long been on my mind. I really wish they would split the Vikings into Danes, Swedes and Norwegians, and give them the Longboat as a regional Unit, but grant each Civ a special bonus or ability to it I think the base version should be only able to carry 4 Berserkers, and no other Unit, and the Elite carrying 6 With Norwegians being able to carry Villagers to reflect their Settler Legacy Danes should be able to fire extra arrowsper the Berserks on board and Swedish Longboats should double as faster Trading Cogs, that maybe generate 90% of a normal Trade Cog, that cannot attack when full of gold, but has the mechanic to dump the gold on board to become a warship again. I really like the "Carryable" longboat that can be dragged on land, but perhaps it should be a Unique Unit to one of the Norse Civs? like a Treb, that Unpacks into a Longship?
I'd love to try out your ideas in a mod! I think they are too cool to not try out, and most are probably unlikely to be implemented outside of mods. I've long been wanting to make Longboats that carry units in some of my scenario ideas, but realized that it can't be done with triggers alone.
Yeah, TBH a lot of my advocacy has to do with the devs officially adding things into the Editor at least, so that Scenario creators can make them work without having to make separate mods. But yeah, I'll be working on a scenario or two as I get time
not related but could be kind of usefull to road creating and all structures that cost stone. what about getting 1 stone every time a farm is built? in real life when land that is transformed from wild into farmland there is a process of getting stones out so agriculture can be made, in real life those stones are used to elevate some areas making the terrain into flat terrain or it is used to build walls and houses. in game we could have a way of getting a little bit of stone even after the main sources of stone are finished. i also think it would be good to have a "farm" that gives wood and costs food (it would be very slow to grow, many times slower to build comparing to the farm)
If Longboats would garrison only Berserks that would be still nice because as you said it would underline their regeneration ability, great raiding ability and you would need a castle (that could help balance it for ladder games). But then again why we shouldn't be allowed to garrison other foot military, they wouldn't regenerate anyways. Also monks shouldn't be allowed to garrison the Longboat. Garrison space 4-5 seems reasonable.
Yeah, even just making the concept mod for this, I realized how fun this makes Viking raids with hit-and-run berserks, but of course other units could garrison as well.
Yeah. But then the players might push the devs for a naval rework which the pro-players and the executives don’t like for reasons of profit and… game-balance.
@@L3monsta I was refering to vikings only, in which the Longboat could replace the transport ship. Or only be allowed to transport Berserks/military units. Are we clear?
@@diegoramirez7901 that makes sense. It just sounded like you were suggesting two new types of generic or regional naval units that would be available.
Can't be done in the Editor as it requires modding, but you need to give units tasks to be able to garrison in the longboat (and/or change the longboat class to something that units can already garrison in).
![“อาร์ต พศุตม์” เกือบเอี่ยวทุกคดีดัง เอ๊ะไว้ก่อน ไม่มีอะไรได้มาง่ายๆ | แฉ 16 ต.ค. 67 [2/3] | GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0Gx-0-kUBv8/mqdefault.jpg)
In age of mythology, long ships can carry units, although very limited and not as good as transport but the longships are quite useful as multipurpose vessels and helping with early game harrasing.
Interestingly, samurai having multiple attacks is given to the chinese special hero units in Age of Mythology, the name elude me but yea, they were armed with swords and short bows.
Ok so update, age of mytholody retold gives the basic warships a 15 unit cap carrying capacity.
I noticed there can be an interesting bug when trying to make warships able to transport units, depending on the way it's implemented.
At first I made it so that Longboats actually have the Transport Ship unit class, which causes them to be unable to attack automatically.
On the other hand, it's possible to just give them garrison space while leaving them with the Warship class, but in that case, any unit that you want to be able to board ships will need to have the ability to do so. It gives some interesting nuance, for example I made it so that only infantry units are able to get onboard a Longboat, and they also have reduced transport capacity compared to Transport Ships. I've also been studying the idea to make them trainable, but I'm not totally sure how to make it balanced.
The idea to make them able to cross land is pretty cool and historically accurate, too, I love it. Might implement it in the future, with credits given to your channel of course.
I'm planning to make a naval-themed mod to make water combat more exciting so this would make Vikings very interesting.
Sounds very cool! In case you wanted the longboats to increase speed/building damage with garrisoned units, you can give them the siege weapon class (13). That way they can garrison infantry and archers, but only infantry will increase their speed. They'll mostly behave as normal ships, you just have to edit some of the technology effects (e.g. fletching, careening) to make them apply. As far as balance, I think having 4-6 resources and population worth of units is more than enough to balance their improved stats (if you go with that method). Or you could decrease their base speed slightly if you're worried about that.
@@AdmiralWololo Oh I hadn't thought about that, I'll definitely give it a try. Thanks!
Is an interesting idea, longboat ship with transport ship abilities. But for the possibility about traversing the land, i think that can be unblanced and/or open cheese possibility in which player can cheat or misuse this ability. For this reason I will implement thisfeature in a similar way of how trebuchet works: Ship can be dismounted/mounted only in proximity of beach/woad terrain, in this way it can be implemented in a fair way (and also it will be historically/logically accurate) and changing class from warship to siege, but I don't know if its possibile or not.
@@danilocaccamese9597 I believe that it might be possible, but I haven't really experienced with trebuchet-type morph yet. Perhaps this is a good occasion to give it a try.
Mind you, I don't particularly care about balance and cheese potential either, I just want to do really cool and fun stuff.
@@AdmiralWololo Arguably, garrisoning archers should increase the number of arrows, while garrisoning infantry should not.
Would gladly play scenarios and mods with the ideas you present on your videos
I appreciate that! I'll be working on at least one of them when I can
Alti likey
This man's puns is on another level
Had to subscribe because of that.
Teutons / Goths: "Ja?" "Sustrobeme!"
having mods for your suggestions would really be a step up. can wait to try them
Thanks, for everything I've shown so far I've made personal mods, although I haven't uploaded them. Some of them need a bit of polish and whatnot, but I'll be uploading more before long!
Straight answer: YES.
Btw. Level of sea should in some way impact some ships. I mean ships like canoes, galleys or longboats (light and small ships) should be allowed to sail on shallow water on the other hand heavy ships like galleon, cannon galleon or caravels etc (heavy and large ships) shouldn’t be able to swim on these waters. So that would mean splitting galley from war gallery would be a thing and it wouldn’t be so bad. After all we have a trash trireme in original aoe and it didn’t turn out to be broken. Some ships would benefit from it, some wouldn’t.
I think this mechanics would be pretty interesting.
Not a fan of mechanics that are only good for scenarios or ladder but not the other. I do like the idea of the longboat being able to work as a transport ship though, even if just for infantry as it better expands their niche. Honestly I’m sort of the opinion that all ships should be allowed to transport units and the dedicated transport ship should be focused on as a cheap weak option that can carry more than the others so it gives you a choice between having to build more expensive ships that can defend themselves or less cheaper ships that are vulnerable or compromise between the two somehow.
I hear ya. To be Frank (or rather Viking), I usually present ideas a bit more conservatively than I need to, with "scenario ideas" being a safe off-ramp for people who may be intrigued but aren't comfortable with the implications on ranked games and possible exploits. A small garrison-speed/attack boost could possibly be a normal game feature after one of the UTs or the Elite upgrade, and possibly even portage since the ships would be slow and vulnerable.
But the main thing I'm trying to do here is open the door to ideas that I like, and the details can be hammered out in due course.
@@AdmiralWololo the moving a ship across land is a cool gimmick idea but ultimately if it’s just for scenarios the main thing that comes to my mind is that the same thing can be accomplished with some trigger sorcery so it really isn’t offering anything mechanically unique haha. That said, it IS a cool trick for scenarios and I agree with the Regnar scenario specifically the lack of focus on the longship despite its identity to Viking visuals is disappointing.
@@CappnRob
I did scenario editing for years before this channel, and a lot of these features can't be created with triggers (otherwise I imagine a creative guy like Philly would have added them to his scenarios). So ships that could do these things would be a value-add even for scenarios.
OTOH I do agree that it's best when things are applicable across a variety of modes or circumstances, and some of these ship abilities probably could be made to work as general changes.
On the other end of the spectrum the transport ship could be a fasster more armored option focused in ensuring you can make a landing under castle or tower fire in Exchange for a higer cost and giving no suport after the landing, in that case they need to be more expensive to reduce their value as bullet sponges during naval battles.
Look forward to seeing your videos! So happy that this game and community are still thriving after many years!
For transportation over land the long ship could become a sige tower reskin with 0 base speed and a larger speed bonus per guarisoned infrantry than the ram. As the trebuchet has a paking and unpaking animation and transport ships have a way of detecting land so you cannot place unitis in the midle of the water then the engine should be ablle to handle this idea.
For historical accuracy I do think they should add that, just only able to load Infantry or Archer in like ram (but without any boost to the Longboat)
I feel like this could be a tech for the galley line for civs that are weak on water
Man the other day I had the same idea for a new civ, including the ram bonus! I didn't knew to what civ to give it tho.
Scenarios with your mods would sound like a dream come true
Thanks! I'll make an effort to work towards that when I can
Packed Treb could do for graphic of carried Longboat
That was my first thought as well, unfortunately it doesn't really resemble a boat, and it's a potential readability issue.
the fishing mechanic from the boat could maybe also be used as a way to heal the boarded units
Solid idea, although IDK how to mod that. Would have to be a dev change
Been asking for this for years!!
Would be awesome!
Yes
Love your videos! Appreciate the effort in creating them and (mods).
IMHO those who really care about Longboats having carry capacity are folks who enjoy the history aspect of the game (campaign). Carrying infantry units, increased speed per number of infantry units, longboat crossing across land in a non-combat mode are excellent ideas for campaigns and would love to see it on official campaigns or mods.
Fishing is a bit of fishy😂 so Idk.
On a regular Standard/multiplayer game mode, any unit should be balanced more than the historical significance.
Thanks! I agree that balance reigns supreme for standard games. I think that garrisoning could work there as a bit of flavor, but yes, most of the wilder suggestions are best saved for campaigns.
Thnaks for the video, I love those idea, even tho most of them may not make it to the game. I love the idea of longboats+berserkers to raid the shores, and would love to have it added to the game for more flavor! Having the carry capacity locked behind chieftains might be the way to go, then?
Also, another idea: what if longboats could fish for food without dropping off, but instead of piling food it would heal the units inside the boat (in the case you would transport archers or other infantry).
Yeah, I think Chieftains is a safe lock so it wouldn't be broken in very early castle age. And fits thematically with the tech of Chiefs/Jarls encouraging their warriors to go on raids and collect plunder.
Healing units with food is cool, ATM I don't know whether it could be done by modding though
It would be interesting if it were nerfed a bit to be an even match for galley line, but then when berserkers are riding, it gains additional arrows and speed.
Yeah that's one possible way to balance them.
Я помню в свое время переделывал торговые телеги в повозки с ресурсами, золото, камень, дерево и крестьяне могли их собирать, по сути перетаскивать ресурсы на склад или на мельницу без процесса сборки, просто как разгрузка машины.
Hey Admiral! Would be cool if you could upload a modding guide! Maybe even a walkthrough of you implementing a mod
Might not be super popular, but I sure would love to see it!
I second this
I'll consider this, but ATM it's quite a bit on the lower side as far as priority. Might be more efficient to give general ideas of how things are done when I present them though. Also I am finally on discord now if people have specific questions.
This has long been on my mind. I really wish they would split the Vikings into Danes, Swedes and Norwegians, and give them the Longboat as a regional Unit, but grant each Civ a special bonus or ability to it
I think the base version should be only able to carry 4 Berserkers, and no other Unit, and the Elite carrying 6
With Norwegians being able to carry Villagers to reflect their Settler Legacy
Danes should be able to fire extra arrowsper the Berserks on board
and Swedish Longboats should double as faster Trading Cogs, that maybe generate 90% of a normal Trade Cog, that cannot attack when full of gold, but has the mechanic to dump the gold on board to become a warship again.
I really like the "Carryable" longboat that can be dragged on land, but perhaps it should be a Unique Unit to one of the Norse Civs? like a Treb, that Unpacks into a Longship?
Other ways to balance the Troop Carrying Longboat could be to give them the Warcraft style unloading, where they unload one Unit at a time?
Would love to play those scenarios
Thanks, I'll be working on them as I have time!
I'd love to try out your ideas in a mod! I think they are too cool to not try out, and most are probably unlikely to be implemented outside of mods.
I've long been wanting to make Longboats that carry units in some of my scenario ideas, but realized that it can't be done with triggers alone.
Yeah, TBH a lot of my advocacy has to do with the devs officially adding things into the Editor at least, so that Scenario creators can make them work without having to make separate mods. But yeah, I'll be working on a scenario or two as I get time
maybe add an option to ships to board assault ships
I played this game a lot as a kid and had a false memory this was true for awhile before coming back and trying it again.
Would have been nice if they had this, but there's still time to add it
not related but could be kind of usefull to road creating and all structures that cost stone.
what about getting 1 stone every time a farm is built? in real life when land that is transformed from wild into farmland there is a process of getting stones out so agriculture can be made, in real life those stones are used to elevate some areas making the terrain into flat terrain or it is used to build walls and houses.
in game we could have a way of getting a little bit of stone even after the main sources of stone are finished.
i also think it would be good to have a "farm" that gives wood and costs food (it would be very slow to grow, many times slower to build comparing to the farm)
If Longboats would garrison only Berserks that would be still nice because as you said it would underline their regeneration ability, great raiding ability and you would need a castle (that could help balance it for ladder games).
But then again why we shouldn't be allowed to garrison other foot military, they wouldn't regenerate anyways. Also monks shouldn't be allowed to garrison the Longboat.
Garrison space 4-5 seems reasonable.
Yeah, even just making the concept mod for this, I realized how fun this makes Viking raids with hit-and-run berserks, but of course other units could garrison as well.
Cool idea!
How did you manage to transport units inside a non-transport? I wasn't be able to do that despite changing attributes via triggers...
It requires modding, unfortunately. On top of changing the garrison capacity/type, units have to have a "task" to board that unit.
@@AdmiralWololo Hmm, seems logical. So, for that all units (or just Berserkers) should have this task-ability, not the ship?
Yeah. But then the players might push the devs for a naval rework which the pro-players and the executives don’t like for reasons of profit and… game-balance.
Vil ek. Til bardaga!
I've been saying this for a long time. This game needs marines and corsairs
Sorry for being dumb, but what would that look like and how would it impact things?
Marines: Something like Admiral Showed.
Corsairs: Boats can capture (convert) boats.
I don't know how would impact, but I like that idea
@@diegoramirez7901 so marines would just be combat transports? What would be the point in having transport boats then?
@@L3monsta I was refering to vikings only, in which the Longboat could replace the transport ship. Or only be allowed to transport Berserks/military units.
Are we clear?
@@diegoramirez7901 that makes sense. It just sounded like you were suggesting two new types of generic or regional naval units that would be available.
Can you share how you modified the Longboat to carry units?
repeat Wololo to the boat until it works
Can't be done in the Editor as it requires modding, but you need to give units tasks to be able to garrison in the longboat (and/or change the longboat class to something that units can already garrison in).
Yes!!!!;