FARM SHOW - Two Farmers Invent Axial Flow Combine
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2014
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Two Kansas farmers, fed up with the high maintenance cost of conventional combines, have invented, patented and built their own axial flow machine.
FARM SHOW first featured the new machine, developed by Ralph Lagergren and Mark Underwood, back in 1986 (Vol. 10, No. 3) when the design was first patented and before anything had been built. The two men, who farm near Burr Oak, Kan., have worked on the project ever since - with the help of Dr. Stanley Clark, head of ag engineering at Kansas State University.
To test the idea, the men first built a stationary model at KSU. After a couple years experimentation, they went to phase two, gutting an existing machine (a Case/IH 1480) and installing the revolutionary new "bi-rotor" system. "So far we've tested it in wheat, corn, milo and soybeans and it worked so well we're moving into the final development phase - building a combine from the ground up using all our patented ideas. We will end up with a much smaller machine with 50% less moving parts that will hope-fully cost much less. Everything will be new from the feederhouse and back," explains Lagergren, who has raised some $200,000 from private investors to help fund the machine's development.
Main feature of the new combine is the "Bi-Rotor" 360 cylinder and concave (pictured). The concave cage, covered with holes, turns in the same direction as the threshing cylinder inside of it but at a slower speed. Because grain is threshed over the 360? surface, the Bi-Rotor is just 4 ft. long, compared to the 8 to 10-ft. length of cylinders in other rotary machines.
Lagergren says the shorter length of the cylinder means straw doesn't get ground up as much, so cleaning efficiency of the straw walkers and sieves is improved. Another special design feature of the machine is that it vents chaff out the side of the combine before it ever reaches the shoe, improving the work of the chaffers.
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What a great concept. I can see why JD would shelf it. Much fewer moving parts = much less parts being sold therefore less revenue.
Actually Case IH was the first one to use it. John Deere was not first to use it. However, the concept of this rotary system is genius.
Buuuut more people would buy it for not as many breakdowns as the classical combine
@@kendallfarms5957 people still buy the combines anyway. Same thing happened with duetz fahr, they started to invest in building self propelled equipment and then figured that each piece of machinery did away with several smaller tractor and equipment. So they were shrinking their own market which just wouldn't return enough money. It's got nothing to do with being better it's to do with returning more money to the owners.
Considering that I work at a JD dealer, combines are already a pain to work on, this one looks exceptionally more painful to work on when it breaks down.
Oh and funnily enough, this uses the 9600 John Deere combine cabin.
The machine was saved at Mark's auction and is being evaluated by the new owners and it may be built eventually.
Clearly decades later the design is not favoured.
It is being modernized. Stay tuned.
@@VenerableBede2510 I won't hold my breath.
It's about to be immortalised in a video game, that's what brought me here. I hope they do rebuild the real thing.
Hello from the future - it has been rebuilt.
Great history to see in video.
Thanks. . . . I miss my cousin and team. We did great things together. Ralph Lagergren
Thanks. We had a talented team and we risked it all to try and change history. Now Peridot who bought our prototype is looking at building our machine as we intended. Ralph Lagergren
@@ralphks583 So what is happening with this Peridot search comes up with some dumb cartoon?
@@ralphks583 who is peridot?
@@ryanschweikhardt it is peridotinc.com They are a very progressive company.
I'm still amazed that people thank the Russian combine or versatile is the same thing. We had a concave rrotating the same direction but at a slower Speed. The others were rotating the opposite direction which we eliminated in lab test. It was way too aggressive when going opposite directions and ground it up like flour.
Such amazing ideas yet modern machines almost exclusively still use auger unloaders, separate clean and return grain chutes, and a standard threshing system.
Coming to farm sim 19 today
the new versatile combines are definitely using this technology. kinda neat really
That aren't using the same technology. They are rotating the concave the opposite testing. When we tested in lab test we found that didn't work and now the concave rotates at 1/10th the speed. The grain explodes out of the concave. We also didn't have to change grates or tighten the rotor for small grains. It worked it all crops at one setting with just changing the speed of the rotor and thus the rotating concave as well. It will be pretty unbelievable if they bring the machine out as we intended. Ralph Lagergren
was just watching video on the new versatile combine it also has the outer and inner rotating system wonder if they have copied it. was not aware of versatile getting into combine deal again. been several years since they were
I like the crawler tracks
It's on a auction this month in Kansas
Our two prototypes were sold with the white combine with murals going to a museum and our XBR2 was bought by Peridot, Inc. who intends to build what we envisioned from the beginning. Ralph Lagergren
@@ralphks583 so they are going to build a new cool in my opinion
The first one went up for sale at auction 10/29/18.
such a great machinery and why we cant get something like this one
+yanik ivanov John Deere bought the North American patent and shelved it, but the European patent was picked up by Rostselmash and they are producing a similar combine under the Versatile name
Peridot, Inc just bought our original prototype and are interested in building the combine how we envisioned it which would be exciting.
@@cormus1 Rostselmash isn't the same. they rotate it the opposite direction which we found didn't work well. We rotated the concave in the same direction at 1/10 the speed and most the grain was out in 28 inches. the Versatile/Rostselmash also didn't use most of our other patents. Thanks. Ralph Lagergren
How close are they getting to reproducing your combine? Very interesting to come across today.
Was that a 1460 or 1480 painted white in this video??
The Gleaner transverse would kill the competition if they would place an air blast above the entire length of the cage. I have done that and it reduces rotor loss to almost zero.
Which way may I ask?(blowing to the left, right, forwards, back, down?)
Straight down right over the top all the way across the top of cage.
@@gleanerman2195 I'll have to try that on my N and R
@@gleanerman2195 So then it prevents loss by keeping material off the top and going back in then? Did you add a fan or tie into the cleaning fan?
Why isnt this on the Market?
We sold the patent rights to Deere but they didn't end up using many of our 24 patents.. Now that those are available Peridot, Inc is looking at taking the whole machine to market as we intended.
This machine is TOO good of an idea...cannot see the big companies allowing it to be produced. The Tucker comes to mind
MJ West it’s going for auction tomorrow
Actually, Case IH has an entire series of axial flow harvesters
If I'm right, Case IH have the rights to make combaines with this technique. So that is the reason, why there is no one else. But I can be wrong.
Case, new holland, john deere lexion/cat and versatile/rostselmash all have axial flow combines. But versatile is using the rotating concave.
That's pretty funny. The guys on the Bi-Rotor team gave me a model of the Tucker car for a Christmas present. We did great things together as a team. Now Peridot, Inc is looking at building the combine as we intended.
A farmer living in the rugby north dakota area had drew up the blueprints of the axial flow combine and a company came in and took the prints and screwed the famer out of his share of the profits
I want one!
I think Rostselmash (Russian company marketed as Versatile in the US and Canada) invented that concept
Anders Nielsen i think so to but the dates could be close together
didnt you listen a kansas farmer dreamed it up privately
That is certainly possible. Wouldn't be the first time that two people implemented the same idea independently. But if you think this is a great idea you can buy one today from Versatile.
No, the concave is going the opposite direction. We designed our machine with co-rotation because we found that opposite direction didn't work well. We also had 24 patents covering hundreds of changes that nobody else is using.
Doesn't this derive somewhat from a Gleaner rotary ... ?
With it's 360 degree separating somewhat. The Gleaner has a transverse rotor, no other combine has it.
I’d like to see this machine in dry beans or any specialty beans at that
We tested all across the country and Canada cutting in both dry and green stem beans, flax, canola, etc. The Bi-Rotor threshing is gentle on the crop. At the same time with the rotating concave when in weedy or green conditions the Bi-Rotor doesn't pull horsepower as much as a typical rotor. If we did plug we could back the rotor up and then take off again.
@@ralphks583 few times I plugged up our 1480 I absolutely regretted it. What you just described here sounds like a dream come true.
We run tall green stem beans that are tuff as heck with a gleaner S98 with a 40 ft. head. We never have even come close to plugging the rotor, you would have to be really incompentent to plug it. The axial is a different deal.
damn you john deere
Deere is a good company and we were paid well for our technology. They used what made sense in their rotor but with no big competition it is tough for any company to scrap a design and go completely to a new design. It is like Ford and Chevrolet changed little and Dodge had little to lose and they changed a lot of all manufacturers after that. Peridot, Inc. who bought our prototype plans to work and bring out the entire machine as we envisioned it. Ralph Lagergren
Kto od Matheo780?
HolmeR ten film wyświetla w tle jak mówi
Where can I buy one
The company that bought our XBR2 is working to bring our whole combine to market. It will take a couple of years but they are serious about it. Ralph Lagergren
@@ralphks583 thanks Ralph keep me updated please
What happened to this great invention
knowing jd they shelfed it and is doing r &d work making it better then when pattent is no good will come out with it an not pay royailtyes to them guys
Deeres rotary combines dont even do well as their competitors. A single rotor the size deeres run has a flaw. It gets off balance and causes bearing failure. Seen it many times when i worked as a tech at a dealer. One of the better combines to own if you can stock up on parts is a gleaner they a class 8 gleaner is competitive to a class 9 and the class 7 is equal to an 8 of competition. Only down fall is parts availability. That where deere beats nearly all its competitors is the dealer network out trumps the rest. You could have a major catastrophe and be bsck to running by noon the next day in the midst of harvest.
Yes you are right about not paying royalties by shelfing the design and altering it enough to deny contract. Its what they did to wagner with the wa17. They also tried to pull it on kinze but he turned them down so they tried to bank rupt him which they failed obviously.
John Deere paid us several million dollars for our 24 patents and the technology know-how. Like any industry if competition isn't fierce then companies aren't pushed to make dramatic moves and investing in millions of dollars of tooling. They treated us well. We barely missed selling to Caterpillar which would have brought the whole combine out but it wasn't to be. Now Peridot, Inc is serious about using our prototype as a model to bring to market the combine as we intended which would be exciting. But this wasn't a case of John Deere trying to screw some people. We did very well. I've continued to develop new products such as www.chemblade etc. I will miss my cousin though. He and I were getting to work on an idea together until Cancer took him. Ralph Lagergren
Colton, you are right, Gleaner is the best combine made, I run 2 S88's and have all the belts and bearings, after 4 years we have never had to use all those spare parts, but it is good peace of mind. My closest dealer is 370 miles away.
The Versatile RT 490 has the same set up.
Not exactly, This combine has the grate turning the same direction as the rotor. The Versatile rotates the grate in the opposite direction of the rotor.
see remarks above . . . not the same technology as the Bi-Rotor.
see comment about . . . not the same set up
I’m related to mark and he was my neighbor
Have a grain cart on the back like the Tribine & it would be unbeatable.
Ya now versatile combine uses the same idea
สวัสดี
Colton Carpenter They haven't got an outer concave that spins.
The Gleaner concave does not rotate, but it does trees at 360 degrees which most other rotary combines do not. I think that Gleaner combines have an interesting design, but they are not marketed in Europe as far as I know.
Nope . . . not true. Completely different machines. We had 24 patents covering all the work that we did. Now Peridot, Inc is looking at producing the Bi-Rotor as we intended. Ralph Lagergren
Rostelmash?
International Harvester was the first to market this technology
Actually it was New Holland
IH didn't have a rotating concave and all the other features in our 24 patents. They did have the first rotor which was a good machine.
@@ralphks583 that's actually not true the first rotor to hit the market was the New Holland TR70, roughly a month later the 1400 series was introduced, and at the same time Allis Chalmers introduced the N series. IH marketing always made the claim first and best, but the truth was it was neither.
@@ralphks583 as a side note I sold your partners cousins tracks for their combine back while you worked on your machine, they were also from Burr Oak
I’d guess the patents have ran out on this design by now.
the patents are expiring. Peridot, Inc is serous about building the whole combine as we intended.
@@ralphks583 did they ever build it
So what happened to this?
Deere Bought/Stole (Do a little asking around, there's quite a story to it) the patents and shelved them.
I find it quite funny they say in the video that they were hoping to have it mass produced by 97. Here it is 2014 and this video finally came to TH-cam and the machine in the video is rusting away on Underwoods farm.
Deere will never produce this machine. It's entirely to simple to use, maintain, and operate with exceptional results which would kill the resale on all their previously built models and would also cause the parts counter sales to drop dramatically in Combine parts sales.
This machine is far to advanced for the economic cesspool we have created in the USA today. It won't roll the profit Deere needs at point of sale and years of service.
Underwood also designed the dust diverter that Deere fabricated on the feederhouses of their 9000 series Maximizers.
No Telling
nobody stole anything. they paid them handsomely for this. they can make a canoe out of it if they want to.
I suggest you get in touch with Mr. Underwood if you would like to hear the real story. They offered handsomely, They paid.. differently
It goes up for auction soon. "The original Bi-Rotor Combine (XBR2), will be going to auction in Burr Oak, Kansas with Wolters Auction & Realty." Monday, October 29 2018
@@notelling8240 we had videos out during our development. John Deere bought 24 of our patents for millions of dollars and used some for their machine today. Much of the breakthrough technology wasn't used though and now Peridot, Inc who bought our XBR2 is working to bring it to market as we intended. Our team did something that most people never get to be involved in. Deere is a good company and didn't steal patents. Yes we came close to selling to Caterpillar and they wouldn't have had to retool to bring to market where Deere would. I don't blame them but now maybe a smaller company can build what we originally intended which would be exciting.
Aye what ever happened to this machine???
Recently sold to a company to try to produce them
@@martynowotny3764 we made several million dollars selling the pants to John Deere which was our only option. We came very very close to selling the caterpillar which would have built the whole machine. now the company that bought our prototype is serious about building the combine as we envisioned it. Ralph Lagergren
It began in 1978 ... didn't International Harvester already have Axial flow on combines in 1975 ?
lepaul26 The prototype was 1975. Production was 77... 40yrs this year, but yeah, you are correct my friend :)
Just a lil history but the earliest id seen or read of axial flow seperators wss from advance rumely. They built corn shellers using it around 1910 which my uncle owns the most complete one known of out of 3. They were also testing it with their threshing machines.
new holland took their twinn roter two avoid patent rights with international, the designer of the international went to new holland because ihc wouldnt develope the roter at that time, they couldnt see the light at the end of the tunnel
Joe Scheller IHC was working on the axial flow for years before new holland even thought about it, some IHC engineers defected to new holland and made the twin rotor to get around the patents ,IHC sued new holland and won in court .For Christ sake know your history before you post comments.Btw their was never an advantage with twin rotors it was always about patent avoidance just like John Deere with their feeder house accelerator beater on their rotaries ,because they can't copy the IHC forcing cone.
We had 24 patents of completely different designs. Just because we were a rotor doesn't mean we copied their technology. We did used a 1480 to retrofit our threshing design in and test which had a rotating concave. We then built the XBR2 from the ground up with features never seen on a combine.
they took state incentive money to help develop and market this machine and sold out. slap in the face to Kansas tax payers!
Boy, people like you piss me off. We did get one grant for $100,000 but otherwise invested all we had in this and took risk you never would. We came close to selling to Caterpillar and I was pushing to build at least parts in Kansas. Our team did things that had never been done before. Yes we made millions of dollars but I'm working on other projects such as Chem-Blade to bring jobs to Kansas. Now Peridot, Inc is looking at building our whole combine. I would like to see you try what we did. Talk is cheap Festus.
@@ralphks583 Pretty certain your the real deal. Congrats on your accomplishments! Yourself and your cousin were brave and ambitious and have working proof to show for it. Truly a rare find. Definitely an adventure most would be too shy to attempt. Wish your buyer well and to see this in MN someday. Maybe at farmfest.
@@rccola3368 thanks. There were certainly times we should have given up but didn't.😀 I will miss doing deals with my cousin. I have a another new product coming out with another talented inventor. It's called the Chem- Blade ES. www.chemblade.com this is about my 12th product but my second one in agriculture. All of them are tough.. Thanks again. Ralph Lagergren
@@rccola3368 We will help them out as much as we can . . . pretty genuine guys. We never cut in MN but when we were testing in ND we did have a rain day and went to the Steam Tractor and Thresher Festival. That was pretty impressive . . . I can't imagine how farming was back in that era.
Ralph
If deer had any since they would use it themselves and put everyone else out of business
That would have put Lexion and Case IH out to pasture
Keith Kratzer DEERE never try anything new ,they just wait to see how something works out then if successful they copy it.