Indian Motorcycles comp for the Harley CVO ST |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- @harleydavidson CVO ST is their best performance bagger!! We all wanted to know what @Indian_Motorcycle bike lines up the best with that performance bike. Here is my thought!
/ @throttleblip9854
I'm Ridingfish,
I ride an @Indian_Motorcycle Pursuit- I bought it at INDIAN MOTORCYCLE OF St. Paul. They are my home dealership, but as you find on my channel, I have worked with many different dealers around the USA.. My favorite thing about this TH-cam thing is that I love growing the motorcycle community! Meeting and hanging out!! Ride Hard,
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You are spot on. Harley just stepped up next to the challenger and charge almost double. Anyone who looks at it critically, will come to the realization that indian is where the better machine is. Most the diehard harley fans will never sit on an indian or even listen to the facts. Keep doing your thing, brother
Indian is a fucking Polaris! Nice bike but not a true Indian! It will forever have that stigma
I'm a Harley owner. I have 3, and you're correct. The Indian has pretty much much everything the Harley has at thousands less.
cool vid, I'm pretty excited for a 112 in the 2025 model.
I ride a victory CC, im looking to upgrade next summer, if indian does the 112 its gonna b a fun year......
P.S. I am gonna check out the CVO ST as well but ur right with the price difference you can do almost every performance upgrade available and probably still be under 43,000.
This is my favorite comparison video I love the way that you laid The facts down in this comparison! And let’s not forget that this would not be possible that is the Harley Davidson ST if Harley Davidson wasn’t already getting their ass kicked by Indian and let’s throw in Harleys declining sales like you said before the competition between Harley and Indian benefits us the buyers. But the fact of the matter is Harley is still playing catch-up to Indian!!!
Looks like the CVO ST weighs 838lbs in running order and Challenger is 831lbs in running order. Pretty close, but you did make great points . Excellent video😎
Good video first my base was purchased in November of 20 its a 21 model I can't believe it s $4000 more now then when I bought mine. Then next. I Thin the new tech will translate to the lower models in the next couple of so price will be a wash very soon. I owned Harley for 37 years and have had my challenger for more then 3.
I don’t have a problem w/ HD or their customers, I hate the dealership, BUT the 24 models actually offers their customers a decent bike for the money. That means Indian, Honda, & BMW actually making a significant dent in their market shares for them to actually push for a better model, first HD that actually has good lighting, suspension and seat.
Timely comparison, thanks. Validates what I was thing about my 20 base. People talk about HD's fit and finish, but the titanium metal flake on the 20 easily compares with the HD premium colors. Had Harley's for 20 plus years moving to Indian because of the power plus motor was tough, hard to believe that after 4 model years, the Indian is still better.
Hey Fish, you nailed it! Great content and btw you are a great guy!......You show us clearly how HDs marketing department is taking the mickey out of customers! Well done🙂
As a Goldwing DCT Tour owner who owns 2 Harleys yet acknowledges the Indian is a better bike than any Harley, the Honda is far and away the better bike overall. It's not even close.
I'm a previous owner of the Challenger, Roadmaster, Chieftain Elite, Pursuit and now a 2023 Springfield. In addition, I just purchased a 2024 pearl white Goldwing Tour DCT (Paid $27,900) for it. I can say the fit and finish on my 2023 Springfield is better than the Pursuit or the Challenger. Indian has stepped up their game and narrowed the gap on fit and finish against Harley. With all that said, you are correct. The Goldwing dominates them all in almost every category but it's nice to be able hop off the smooth flat 6 and get on the Indian with the V-Twin Rumble just for a change of pace.
Glad I just ride my old road king for fun and none of the computer crap just basically old school 😈
Good comparison. Lots of hype out there on that ST. Seems like a good bike. I’ll be interested in your view after you ride it. Although it’s subjective, I think the Challenger is a better looking bike. Im partial to Indians because I love the way they pushed the market and it’s real competition for Harley. Do you think there will be a Challenger model coming that will be sport performance oriented?
The Fish is preaching !!! Preach on Rev Fish!
Thank you!!
I recently purchased my Harley back in August of 23. I will agree with most of what you’ve said, the challenger is a far better bike of the floor. However, considering I was coming off of a metric cruiser it just gave me the exact same feeling. Next I considered customization, aftermarket and the ability to perform 95% of the work myself. When I watched videos of cam swaps and tunes, that put the challenger behind in my opinion. Also while their aftermarket is growing it still can’t touch Harley. Just go to any major rally, about 90% of the vendors won’t touch an Indian or have parts on hand for it. Another thing was dealer access, the closes dealer to me is about an hour away. I have 4 Harley dealership within 45min of me two of which are 15 min away. Me trying to give Indian a nudge I consider the Chieftain with the 116, but in my research there’s even less support for that model. I truly believe Indian makes a great motorcycle but it also reminds me of my Yamaha Raider with the 113ci. Great motorcycle but after bars, tune, exhaust there just isn’t much else to get excited about. Harley on the other hand for someone like me that likes to get their hands dirty it’s just the better option for the long term. I can’t pretty much make this Road Glide what ever my pockets and imagination will allow. 130hp & 155tq is just a cam selection away which can easily install without dropping the motor, swapping the rear suspension took me like 30min. And I’m enjoying every twist of the wrench.
Great video bro keep them coming Indian and the Motorcycle community need people like you to speak the truth and not post just biased opinions. Much respect from me.
Bro..... lmao. Love this video! Frickin love your attitude.
I’ve been going back and forth between my new choice. You sold me
@@joemerr9409 you won't regret it
So what you are saying is Indian can take the base model, add a single seat and carbon fiber front and rear fenders and call it Challenger ST?
Fish, I think that no matter what explanations are given, by whomever, albeit an HD person or Indian person, its going to come down to the person in the triangle. Id say, ride what you like, build on what you like and just enjoy riding motorcycles. Most would say they need more power and the problem is, if you've never had the power you're looking for on a bike, you don't have the experience to put that power to the test and would you be able to do it? Straight line is the best they MAY ever get...lol
Good job Fred,. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!!
🍾🏁 he said what he said. Great video Fish
Cool video, I'll take the Harley still
Challenge(r) accepted. Great job on the comparison.
You are on POINT Sir! You do not go by price, you go by the options then the price... Listening to you reminded me of my Appliance TV days. Mitsubishi v. Hitachi TV's I can go on and on. Your math of 3" v. 4.5" is actually 33.34% difference but I agree if it wasn't for Indian HD would still have what ever there inches are. For that price on HD they are missing saddle bag speakers, passenger seat, TV screen (I call it) just to name a few. Are there frame aluminum or steel? But what is important to 1, is not to another. Keep up the Videos!!! Informative!
I've been saying this since 2020 that the Challenger is the elite touring bike on the market right now, especially when it comes to performance. Here is something for you here on the CVO ST. They don't even use a weave rear rotor, just the stock rotor that comes standard on all their bikes lol. Performance bagger my ass, and you'll be lucky to get that CVO ST for under $50,000 after dealer markup.
I love seeing someone showing how Indian CRUSHES Harley. The MoCo destroyed my trust when I bought the Pan America.
I sold my challenger a year ago, couldnt get past the over all aesthetics and straight up ugly angles of that fairing.
I bought the CVO ST last week and I’ll tell you this……it’s a beast!
I like EVERYTHING about this bike vs with my Challenger I only loved the power!
Yeah price point is more but for all you get and the aesthetics is just 2nd to none. One doesn’t have to do much to the ST if they choose not, I had 10k into my Challenger and was still trying to come up with ways to just make it look better and at the end of the day, no matter what it was STILL UGLY!!
CVO ST over ANY bike Indian has, facts!!
And it’s a bagger! So yeah one can tour all day with it, you tripping with that line.
I’m already 2 up on mine. Easy conversion.
CVO ST is a nice bike. Just not near enough there to make me consider trading my Challenger for one.
Love the vids keep it up fish
I have a 2023 Indian Challenger Elite, and I have a deposit on a 2024 Harley Davidson CVO Road Glide St.
Correct all the way. HD better fit and finish is questionable and especially when comparing Elite models. If that’s the best what HD had then Indian will outpace them next year by far again. Those CVOs look good though.
Def the fit and finish for me… Harley all day
Facts 🤷♀️
Ok, I'm shocked, but your reasoning is very clear on CVO ST vs. base model Challenger.
Some things you did miss:
Both Challenger & CVO ST have Brembo brakes, on HD, both the front & rear suspension are adjustable by Orlins (reservoirs on the rear fenders) & that's why it is a single seater. On Challenger, no adjustable front, as you said, but the Fox shock is the air adjustable or a twist know. You could opt for the electronic pre-load, which I would think is more apples to apples & it is electronic ! No knobs to twist & no guesswork.
There is adjustable "play" in both handlebars, but the CVO ST has risers and more of that flat track kind of bar that if you do that to Challenger, it's a aftermarket gauge relocation kit, the risers, the bars & a hell of a lot of work ( or $$$ for labor costs) But a lot of people have set up their Challengers that way. If you're saving as much $$$ as you say, I guess you could afford all of this stuff to upgrade a base Challenger ??
Great Job on the video. Let's see the Challenger Elite vs. regular 24 CVO video, soon ....
Also forgot, smaller floorboards increase lean angle.
I got that exact Surelock safe at Murdoch’s.
I just love Harley’s for the name, and I have the money to pay the difference, so I’m going to purchase an Indian pursuit to have both brands.
I’m still a Victory rider, love my Magnum still and sticking with it until the wheels fall off. However, did an Indian demo day and a Harley demo day. As much as I wanted to like the Indians, especially the Challenger, I was very disappointed. Riding the base model up to riding the Elite, the Challengers just are meh. The throttle response is awful. Plastic everything. Felt like I was sitting way up on top of the bike compared to the Victory’s. Where my Victory just feels like quality, I don’t get that from the Challenger. Now I got to ride the 2023 Roadglide CVO, which definitely had a much higher quality feel vs the Challenger Elite. The Harley Outbreak is a damn fun bike too. I don’t know, I’m leaning way more towards Harley than towards Indian.
Great video! Keep up the great work
Only commenting because you said "what did I mess up", but I hope I messed up instead LOL.
When talking about HP and TQ, I would say the Challenger is more around 105 and 115 to rear wheel. Their posted specs are 122 and 128 at the crank. So looks like the CVO ST would have about 10 more HP and 15 more TQ.
Don't get wrong, I would take a Challenger all day every day (well after they get their damn battery and electrical draw crap figured out) over a Harley (and I own 1 of each).
Raystheroad, chime in. 😂😂😂
The big differences for me and fit and finish,harley beats Indian in that dept everytime..next is the aftermarket,theres alot more with a harley over the indian...
I honestly think Indian should lower its prices for the Challengers significantly. I think that’s how you compete effectively until they produce an updated bike. The updated Road and Street glides start at $26k and most people just aren’t going to choose a Challenger over those two at a similar price. They just aren’t.
Indian would give consumers something to think hard about though if the Challenger started at like $18700 and the upgraded model was say $23650…. Now those Harleys look expensive instead of like a bargain bagger. You would make up the price reduction in volume doing it that way. What else do you do otherwise???
Man, I agree lowering some prices would be good.. but if you think about how much of CVO equipment you get one the Challengers Compared the standard Harleys the money is easily on the side of the Indian Motorcycle... lowering the price and use cheaper suspension and fixed windshield??
@@Ridingfish That’s fair, I just don’t see that moving the needle much for most bagger riders. I stand by that if they can get a Harley with good tech, a modern feel, some liquid cooling, and a strong engine for a price that is close to the Indian Challenger, most of them won’t look back. I believe Indian has to be aggressive in taking the price comparison out of the equation if they want to stay competitive. They can’t change what Harley has released with their new baggers, but they can outprice them. That’s the move in my opinion. It would instantly shift the conversation back to Indian and reignite the discussion about which is the better buy for your money. Right, all anyone I follow is talking about is how awesome the new Harley baggers are and how that RG CVO ST is ridiculous. After test riding a new Road Glide myself, I am blown away by them too. I liked the Challenger I test rode as well, but I wouldn’t pick it over the new Road Glide at a similar price. Not a chance. My guess is I’m not alone.
I know this isnt a fair comparison...But being a HD owner...If i wanted to compete head to head with a Challenger and keep at basically the same price point as a Base model....I would buy a new LRST and put a bolt in S@S 475 cam in it....A HD mini bagger vs the Full bagger Indian....Just think about it🤔
HD riders comment on the fit and finish of Indian while Indian riders comment on performance and suspension of HD. Fit and finish does not make a performance bagger. HD riders spend thousands fixing a poorly designed motor that will still pale in comparison. The Challenger base out of the box will smoke a RG.
True story.
Indian does need to step it up because Harley is coming for you lol. A larger displacement Revolution Max is coming out next
Indian just came out with the Challenger in 2020. It took Harley Davidson like 100 years later to make a better performance bike??? However I think Harley has a 135 engine too… Anyway Indian is leading in technology
CVOs are pricey but it has…..
Better suspension front and back with adjustments.
More power and torque
Better stereo
Carbon fiber
Better handlebars
All the tasty CVO bits, grips, pegs, custom paint.
10x’s better looking
Etc………..
The challenger is a nice little water cooled bike for the money.
Fit and Finish: Harley
Resale: Harley
Aftermarket: Harley
Desirability: Harley
@stevekeddington4382 all day! And I’m coming from the Challenger.
I repeat, nobody wants Indians. If they did you wouldn’t see 98 percent Harley Davidsons at all the rallies. They have been around long enough to have a much bigger representation. It doesn’t change. Because nobody wants them.
Indians remind me of metrics
@@Consciousriderpeer pressure? I get it all the time. I just don’t fold.
Ummmm only thing that Harley has on Indian right now is fit and finish and it honestly isn't like light years ahead. The used Harley market is pure trash after they released 2024 touring bike. Indian is holding their value better right now, and I'd rather have a Indian over a Harley right now. Last true Harley was the 2017 Dyna.
🌿 YOU OR RIGHT BIG MONEY FISH 🐟 LOVE FROM MISSISSIPPI USA 🇺🇲
Thank you sir!!!
A lot of Challengers are junk, the dealerships that are responsible to fix them are majorly junk. At least if Harley breaks they have a butt ton of dealerships that know what they are doing. Both bikes are highly competent and both are overpriced.
ride what ya want, ride what has the best places to support you nationwide, if you ride. I’ve noticed most people don’t ride enough to matter about worrying about breaking their bikes.
🌿 HOWDY SALTY AND SPRINKLES
HOPE YOU AND YOURS ARE DOING WELL ❤️🩹
LOVE FROM MISSISSIPPI USA 🇺🇲
Thanks for the info.. great vid 👌🏽
Lots of truth there, good job.
Doesn’t your bike also have electronic suspension adjustment
I mean… interesting points / no doubt the HD ST is Dope; but still😬
Fish I got to know dude, Is Indian bringing out a new Pursuit or Challenger in 2025, I'm looking at buying a 2023 Pursuit, but I can wait if need be. I'm in Australia
Thanks dude
Did you end up getting it? If it's true Australia is probably 18 months away from getting it..... in saying that I wonder how quick the dealers here in Oz will get the new scout
I have a 2023 cvo scteet glide and the 2022 Indain elite challnger I dont live far from you we can put them side by side and do detali comprassion if you want.
Damn dude!!! Congratulations in that stable!!! Yea we should hook up!!!
Tell me how to connect?
@@TheVictory106 DM me on IG or Facebook.. email. Fisher55021@gmail.com
You are right
Challenger is just a better bike my bro has a 2020 street glide is paying 800 a month my challenger smokes it and is 400 a month
Numbers don't lie 😂
Harleys 117 got a face lift it sopose to make some good power I had a guy at the Harley shop try to tell me Harley is 11 years a head of everyone in technology didn't have the heart to tell him they don't from last to 11 years ahead I don't think so plus Polaris has more money than God there not going to let Harley beat them
Hahaha, nice of you not to hurt the guys' feelings!! Ahhaha. Yea Polaris isn't poor that's for sure!! Haha
Oh and you can’t forget spicy candy is fucking bad ass.
I guess a guy could have his Challenger base painted but that's where the HD wins every time. Paint and finish. Indian is top dog in everything else. But, the aftermarket has hot rod parts for the HD and they really respond to a lot of those parts. The Challenger doesn't.
paint on my 20 base is Titanium metal flake and beat the Harley paint for being brilliant in the sunlight.
My neighbor has the 2023 CVO with the 121… I continuously punish him every time he tries me on the open road…😂 I tell him all the time,you’ve spent almost 60 grand & still can’t get out in front of me! Go get your money back & get a INDIAN☑️
Stop hurting feelings!!!!! Hahahahhahah but also great advice!!!! 💪 💪 😄 🤣
@@Ridingfish I can’t because you know how those Harley fan boys are. He also paid the 6 grand upgrade for the whiskey color. I’m like honestly,it takes a special kind of person to do that. I told him to go get some cams for a motorcycle you paid almost 60 for. Suspension still some trash. All I can figure is,he’s in love with the brand. Harley should be ashamed of how they RAPE their customers. Sad. 😞
@@wonderful_Himself7 😢 😭 🤷♂️ 🤷♂️ 🤷♂️
Becareful Fish . Your going to but hurt the HD fan boy's.
Victory motorcycle had inverted front forks in 05. And mono air shock. Now HD puts out a bike with inverted front forks and 3.5 inches of travel for 45k. Step up with your check books suckers.
Harley Davidson looks way better and that's all that counts always has. When you have both pics up the HD looks the hell out of it. I agree with you on the price and I wouldn't pay that for the ST or any bike , that's for the rich people. I'm good with the power of the HD's I don't even care if you can get 200 horse power and 250 tq... Indian needs to make their bikes look better then they will start selling them. As far as right now you all are still way way behind. Indian motorcycle sales will be in the RED in 2024
You’re to nice. And I still think your ears are pointed. 🧝♂️
Hahha Bro, I think I'm part elf!!
The Polaris is ugly
Your dog is ugly. What’s your point?