The Solar Killers - Top 2 Things That Will Derail The Success Of Your Solar Panel System!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video, I'll illustrate the top two things that cause many solar panel systems to fail to meet expectations. Whether you are staying on the grid with a grid tied system or going independent with an off grid system, you need to know about these two killers before you plan your system. #netmetering #solar #solarpowered
00:00 Introduction
00:36 Around The Clock Loads
00:59 Off Grid Example
02:30 Grid Tied Example
04:16 Around The Clock Loads Summary
04:37 HVAC
05:27 Illustrated Grid Tied Example
08:09 Conclusions
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I have been off grid for 3 years now. With only 6kw solar and 25kw battery. But it seems to run a 1200 sqft home just fine. But I did build to the house myself and designed it to be energy efficient. The cloths dryer,stove and on demand water heater use propane. The first year will suck. Basically because you will be constantly checking everything before you learn to trust your system. But in these 3 years. Everyone I know has spent at a minimum 24 hours without power. And the only time mine is out is when I turn it off to make an upgrade. I love being off grid but once you take control of your energy needs. You will see the energy grid as a marvel of engineering and appreciate how little people actually have to pay for power.
That is awesome! Yes, it can be done. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Once you learn how to live off grid ie do laundry during peak sun and don’t leave lights on and such you can live on a relatively smaller system than when you started out.
So is there a conversion rate of how much kw of battery needed per 100 sq ft of home ? And can it be done without lithium batteries? I still don't like the fire risk of lithium still, and Lead acid seem pretty good still. thanks.
@@noahriding5780There is no fire risk with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. The ones that catch fire are LCO or another sub chemistry of Lithium Ion. Almost all deep cycle lithium batteries built for RV's, golf carts, bass boats, and solar are LFP so they are safe.
Stay as far away from rules of thumb as you can get. They are so vague and general that they are not accurate for anyone's case and can get you in big trouble on a large investment like that.
@@noahriding5780 not really per 100 square feet but rather average out your electric bill. I wouldn’t fear the new LiPo batteries, the newer batteries are really safe especially compared to the older chemistries and the BMS’s have truly gotten smart. I use the signature solar 48v batteries along with their inverters and the newer ones have really good monitoring systems for hot and cold. When it comes to how many it depends on how many days of backup you would like to have. Average your daily KWh usage for summer and winter and multiply by the number of days backup you feel safe with and add 20%. The 20% is so you never drain your batteries to 0. This is how I figured my battery needs and I’m sure others do it differently, the system I have today is my second large off grid system and the cost of it compared to my first along with the ease of installation was night and day.
I live remote rural off grid here down under, 24V with four 140amp batteries, lighting is LED strip lighting , fridge freezer ect is soft start with inbuilt inverters, I stay away from high draw things that need to be plugged in via the inverter. I run a 4 bedroom house sheds and a workshop , the workshop if I am running high draw tools necessitates running my backup generator at times, though not often. Works for off grid but running a suburban house with flick the switch appliances and AMP hungry appliances requires a much larger and more complex hence more expensive system. Its about knowing your power usage keeping on top of your system , I sometimes watch these videos, this being one of the best I have seen of late and wonder about the efficiency, practicality and usage of roof top solar in the cities. In the cities the mind set is flick the switch, leave everything on standby and people wonder about the amount of electricity they are used to using and the shear wastage a suburban house produces. All my lighting is LED and I also have the house wired for 240V from the inverter, works for us. New sub here, had a thought I added add a small wind turbine as it acts like a battery trickle charger overnight and keep your batteries topped up it extends their life by years. Good luck with your off grid its more than worth it and the added bonus is you escape the cities, many more people are doing it as there are so many more jobs now where you can work from home. Its put the real estate prices in country towns and off grid locations through the roof here in Australia, glad I got in ten years ago.
One of the very few honest reviews of how solar works when applied to reality.
Thanks! I really appreciate that.
except its not because you're not throwing the panel away after 1 day...
At least right now solar panel prices are super low. Buy while it's low, who knows how long these prices will be sticking around. I just bought three brand new bifacial Talesun 400w panels for $450
Wow! That is pretty good. Yes, the panels are getting cheaper. But the net metering deals and some of the other stuff is getting worse. Some utilities charge a fee per month just to take your power of as much as $25 per month. You would need to generate 416.67 kWh per month just to pay off the monthly fee with the example scenario in the video, let alone start to generate any offset of your usage!
#goJason
I don't understand why off grid stuff is so expensive in the USA, in South Africa I just bought 20 x 550W panels for 1771 Rand each, which is ~93.21 USD a panel. I have seen multiple videos on youtube, and for an installed system you seem to be paying double or triple what we pay.
You have convinced me to just be off grid...period. Annnnd... stay away from our refrigerator at night...LOL!
Haha. Just trying to give some people a dose of reality. I hope it helps you do things the right way from the beginning, regardless of what you choose. It can be done but it takes knowledge and no guessing.
@@LDSreliance And in my case a steep learning curve in the building and set up :)
I had an electrician seperate my power boxes in my garage, I now have 2 power panels, 1 is the 220volt system and 110 in the other. I can constantly cover the 110 with my system.
@@derek361 I run a separate battery bank for 12V LED lighting in the house and workshop and 240 from the 24V bank through an inverter works for me.
I have a 6kw solar system in Pakistan.Basically i am able to run almost everything from 9am till 5pm ( 600 units/kwh per month ) and charge my lifepo4 battery ( 5kw ) which further extends my usage uptill midnight ( only basic load , fridge , led bulbs etc. ). Microwave is something which needs to taken under consideration since it has massive impact on total usage.
Yes, that is true. Thankfully we usually only use a microwave for a minute or two. Thanks for commenting and sounds like you have a good system!
Buy a low wattage microwave.
But wouldnt that double the time to heat something up since now its output is halved ?@@crazysquirrel9425
@@crazysquirrel9425better yet don't use a microwave. It kills the little nutrition in the food. Plus the only thing you really miss out on is microwave popcorn but there are other ways to make popcorn and they are generally cheaper.
@@crazysquirrel9425 Takes longer to cook. Sheesh,........
I lived off grid for over 20 years and found it to be a wonderful and deeply fullfilling experiece. You will sleep much better at night being able to control your own infrastructure!
My biggest tips are to know your loads well and regulate their timing and use. Its hard for solar to do it all, all of the time, without the high cost of large arrays and big battery capacity. But the trick that worked great for me was to also have an additional small diesel generator that used fuel i custom made myself, from veg oil and other peoples waste oils.
The gen set is reliable backup that can be implemented into your solar system without much more expense if you find a small used one. It only has to run a short time once in awhile to refill batteries, and get you through lean solar times, or when you have an extra heavy load that your inverter cant handle. Plus you now have extra fuel on hand to run your antique diesel car and go get supplies!
Nice! I hope my stay off grid will be as successful. I definitely plan to find a diesel generator when I can. Possibly an army surplus unit.
Air condition is easy to run on solar cause it's usually sunny when you need it the most. It's much harder to heat with solar.
That is accurate for part of the day, sure. What about the rest?
And heating take more energy.
Good info. Definitely good to figure out how much power you need for the things you use one at a time, instead of trying to guess how much power everything you use needs.
I agree. And your monthly electric bill does not include half of the information needed.
Have 1 to 1 net metering in Florida, and it's great, the utility acts as the battery. With 5.8h/d of average peak irradiance it's been working quite well. Couple things I have learned, wire gauge drives line loss, advocate for larger gauge wire for long runs, build bigger then you need because you can always use more energy not the other way around, and do your research on equipment and installer.
You are very lucky. Most don't have anything close any more.
General rule of thumb when it comes to solar: It's cheaper to reduce than to produce.
There's two forms of grid-tied solar: Net Metering kWh for kWh (starting to be less common) or Feed-in Tariff (basically sell wholesale and purchase retail). I'm glad that I am on the kWh for kWh program which gives me the ability to be net zero for many years. It took me about 2 years of logging my consumption data and with that data, I was able to make my home more efficient to make solar to work for me.
Here's some data I have from my central 2.5 ton (30,000 Btu) heat pump from Jan to Dec 2023 with thermostat set at 79° F cooling and 70° F heating in West Central Florida. My total energy usage is 2,907 kWh (2.907 Mwh) for the entire year or roughly 7.96 kWh per day. Note that my auxiliary 5 kW electric backup heat strips is disabled since it rarely goes below 40° F on the coldest of evenings. HVAC is the most difficult to calculate depending the thermal loading characteristics of each home is quite different; plus I keep my thermostat on the higher than average side during the summer since I am able to maintain below 45% humidity at those settings.
Agreed. A LOT cheaper to reduce. But, like I said in the video, almost no homeowners are signing up for a $50,000 loan on some panels AND getting excited about turning their thermostat up to 80 or opening the windows instead. It just doesn't happen.
Holy smokes how did you get your yearly usage to only 3kWh? I used close to that last month! Making FPL work for their earnings I love it.
A great dose of reality for anyone thinking about dipping their toes in the solar arena. I'm in the process of learning, building a small system to run 6 circuits on a transfer switch. I have a whole house generator if we loose power for an extended time but you don't want to run that at night. I just wanted enough to run my refrigerators and freezer, some lights in the bath etc. So I have no pressure to power everything, it's more of a hobby for me. But this is a great video for those thinking of going all in, to know the limitations and have realistic expectations.
Thanks! I appreciate the support. Good luck with your project and check out the other 100+ solar videos I have on my channel.
Great video, most people don't realize this until they get a quote or start using their system. I am going to get a small system that is enough to charge the basics and cover lighting in a down grid event. Eventually, I would like to scale up to handle a refrigerator.
Thanks! I appreciate that. Yeah, hopefully I can help a few people understand this BEFORE they sign on the dotted line with that solar sales guy promising them no electric bill.
Wow. Hey this is a really good and needed topic. Most people don't talk about this. Thanks.
You are welcome! I agree, I think everyone considering solar needs to see it. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the honesty. I realized this as well, when I was planning to upgrade to achieve zero bill, but decided not to and instead just run my old solar set-up on all the convenience outlet, let the Air-conditioner feed off from the utility. The original plan was to have the Air-conditioner feed from Solar and batteries, but that is too expensive.
It really is out of reach for almost all of us. Hopefully we can change the narrative over time to "solar is a great 10 year investment by helping you decrease your power bill" instead of the current promises and instant gratification being given.
I have a hybrid system and net metering system now I am enjoying my zero bill for last 5 years
Well presented, thank you!!
Thanks, Larry!
Thanks for sharing my friend.
You are welcome, Mark. Good to hear from you, as always.
Hello, I live in Ukraine and I have 7 kw solar array + 6 kwh of batteries. From May till October I have an excessive amount of energy. And I can run 2 water heaters + 3 air conditioning units just fine. Zero bill. Solar heating in cold months is obviously not an option. Yet I'm able to run the heaters from the solar power for 4-5 hours in sunny winter days. So that I can spare some wood, and not use stove in the morning.
First Sound Advice good example love the video.
Thanks! I appreciate it.
Very nicely explained thank you so much.❤❤
You are welcome! Thanks for watching.
Depends on where you live, my local utility trades 1 to 1 kw/hrs. They charge $0.10 per kw/hr for usage and give you a 1 kw/hr credit for every 1 kw/hr you generate.
If you generate more kw credits than you need to reach net zero at the end of a cycle, it rolls over to the next cycle. Credits never expire, but can not be exchanged for money.
If you cancel the service with excess credits unused, then those credits are lost.
Awesome!
Good job sir, thanks to the information
The biggest energy consumer for me is my gas heat in the winter! So much so that I have decided to make three different systems. One for each refrigerator I use and then one for the main part of the house. You would be surprised at how much this helps during the winter time. So I need about 1500 W in solar panels for each refrigerator. A small inverter of around 1500 W, and a charge controller that can bring in that wattage. Not to mention a 3 to 5 kW battery.
Understand that I live in the Pacific Northwest, which makes a lot of difference in the winter time!
Sounds like a sweet setup! And geography is definitely a big factor. Thanks for sharing.
First, thanks for the presentation which I believe a lot of folks need to understand. I have been planning on going solar for many years, however, I'm still in the process of minimizing my loads (it's been going on for over 10 years). At a minimum you have to target your building envelope and get your heating/cooling loads to a minimum - these are the biggest power drains. Now that I'm done with this phase (foam insulation, sealed gaps, triple and quadruple paned windows), I'm looking at ground source heat pumps with one temperature loads (this is how the brits do it and I like it - it minimizes the number of pumps required). You could also do some of the super high efficient air source heat pumps with COPs around 4 at 17KW loads (net 4.25KW/hr under load).
Rather than doing net metering, I'm planning on having 2 separate systems - 1 off grid and one grid tied. I'll slowly move my key systems off grid and leave those not as important grid tied. Now to see if my town/utility will approve this. My feeling is that I should be able to as long as I have the systems discrete - but who knows. My solar will start with 8K of panels and about 15K-25K of batteries.
Sounds like a cool system! I hope it works out well for you but it sounds like you are doing your prep work ahead of time and realistic about what you can expect once you take the plunge.
Good Information.....THANKS
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
Awsome presentation 👌 Thank you sir.
You are welcome! Thanks for watching and commenting :)
Very informative!!! Thanks!!
You are welcome! Thanks for watching.
New subscriber always watching your videos very interesting❤
Thanks! I appreciate the sub!
Thank you sir.
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
Love this video! I consider myself an ‘EcoRealist’. Meaning I know that dirty energy still needs to be used from time to time but that doesn’t mean I can’t strive to do better and be more self reliant.
Agree! Thanks for watching and commenting!
You sound like more of a EcoHypocrite.
If you think utilty power is 'dirty', then spend the money and go totally solar.
Until then, shut up.
I’m learning a lot as I monitor my power usage in my tiny home. 12kwh was my biggest day this winter using electric heat. Looking like I will need 2-3000 watts of solar. I think my plan will be to maximize how much solar I can put on my trailer and also do an automated generator for the big use days. Im in a great spot for wind so I may as well get a decent spinner as well. Would be nice if someone could build a wood stove that can convert wood to electricity. I’m only running math so far as I also have a wood stove installed and also a diesel heater. It would be nice to not have to run those if possible but it’s looking like that might be harder than I expected. I gotta figure it out before summer as I’m definitely doing solar this year but to what extent I don’t know yet.
There are thermoelectric generators that you can attach to a wood stove and get some small amount of electricity from. Enough to charge your personal electronic devices. But I agree.
To get 12kWh in winter, though, you are going to need a heck of a lot more than 3,000W of panels. It will come down to your battery bank size and how willing you are to run your generator for several hours to charge up your battery bank.
3 things, dirt, poor weather, night time. But there is always that early morning and late afternoon thing that doesn't help much ether, but it's just great during those few mid day hours, it's quite a charge...
I decided it made more sense to just go off grid, get a gas generator, solar, and modify my loads then try to do net metering and pay the monthly tax to be tied to the system. Not to mention all the cost to hybrid tie in and all the permits needed to tie in. In my state it makes more sense to go off grid and just buy fuel for the cloudy stretch then oversize battery banks or go hybrid
Agreed. And it is getting more and more obvious all the time.
I still live off grid in the Sierra, have for 35 years. You are spot on with your analysis!
By the way, I owned Sierra electric Solar for over 20 years during this time, specializing in off grid applications as a systems designer.
Believe me, solar has greatly improved over the last 5 years, but it's still extremely expensive. I estimate I've spent over 200 thousand dollars over and above solar in generators and fuel to offset winter months.
But you know, I wouldn't have traded a anything for the freedom of not being monitored by the govt for a second.
Oh absolutely. I still advocate for almost anyone to do it. They just need to have the right mindset and expectations and know how to do it properly. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I have a 7kW grid-tied system (in New Zealand) , for which I've kept some fairly extensive records.
During 2023 I consumed 3940.5kWh of my generated electricity and imported 2364.7kWh from the grid. Normally this total amount of electricity (6305.17kWh) would have cost me NZ$2151.77. The billed cost of the imported electricity was $800.07, so I've already saved $1344.69 right from the start.
However, during the same period I also exported 5100.91kWh, for which I received credits of $612.11 - the price ratio between import and export is approximately 2.25 -, leaving me to pay the net cost of $194.97 for my imported electricity out of my own pocket. With that amount of potential additional savings each year I can't justify spending money on a car battery, never mind anything bigger. Currently I'm expecting an 8~9 year payback period.
My conclusion, based on actual numbers from my own system, is that you don't need a huge system to make a significant impact on your electricity costs, but you do need the right climate - in summer my system is producing usable amounts of electricity for around 11 hours each day.
Absolutely. If you are looking at it as a way to decrease your bill and generate a long term return on investment, that is the right way to approach it. Unfortunately, that isn't how it is being sold here in the US.
@@LDSreliance Ok, so if there are different expectations in the US that might explain some of the comments I've seen in the past. As far as I know, no company here sells PVs as anything other than a long-term investment where the return is in the form of significantly reduced, or even in credit, monthly power bills. It's usual here to own your setup outright.
I'd be genuinely interested in knowing what the sales pitch is in the US and where the return is expected to come from, because I can't at the moment see any other way you could view such an investment - but I'm more of an technical type person than a marketing type, so I might be missing something obvious.
Most residential rooftop systems are sold as completely eliminating your power bill OR making it small enough that the power bill plus the solar payment is less than the previous power bills were. In other words, an immediate savings. In my experience, 9 times out of 10 that is not going to happen. And I haven't seen an electricity bill that was a credit here in the states in a long, long time.
Great video
Thanks! I appreciate it.
I'm all about cautionary tales, and due diligence is required from everyone before they squeeze the trigger and spend time and cash.
My advice:
Define exactly what you hope to accomplish, keeping the future in mind, then don't move the goalpost.
I started out thinking how wonderful it would be to have a solar powered mini split cooling my garage for free.
That evolved into: " what how much would it cost to put in mini splits throughout my home and get off my 4 ton Heat Pump.
Then I thought: I really need backup power and started assessing my energy use throughout my home.
For me being able to run my HVAC is important. Sizing a system large enough to cover my cycling Heat Pump covers most sporadic incidental loads, but not my electric oven, or clothes dryer. I already had a soft start installed on my HVAC allowing me run it off my propane powered portable generator.
I was lucky in that I already had a standing seam metal roof on my house. If you install solar on your house you will be required to spend more money on a rapid shutdown system to protect first responders from getting shocked in that one in a billion chance that your house catches on fire.
Don't even get me started on the little tin gods inspectors office.
Solar prices have been cut in half over the last 5 years so it's within your grasp just be smart about it and plan on spending good money up front.
Greetings: All true. I reali*e this is not about types of installations panels, cells Etc. U 4got 2 tell them about different panels 4 different climates, Good show. Thx 4 the share.
This is good information. Real world also need to account for loss through wiring.
Unless you can install an oversize system (which is restricted to your avg yearly home consumption in Canada), the most effective solution is to reduce consumption and insulate/increase home efficiency. Windows and large sliding doors, no matter what they tell you about 4 pane superglazed mass mayhem argon tetrahydric eco-powered bamboo friendly glass - ARE absolutely a terrible terrible insulator, both in warm and cold climates. If you cant get rid of windows, shade them inside AND outside to help your Air conditioner. IF you can really afford it, Batteries are an option, but their installation and additional components are quite expensive as of 2024.
Stay gold
Nice solar cell
I live in Alberta Canada. We have retailers that buy and sell us power at Solar Club rates. Spring, Summer and Fall we switch to a high rate of 30 cents a kWh. We buy it at that rate and we sell it at that rate. Earning credits bills for nine months of the year. Then in winter we switch back to the lower normal rate of 10 cents a kWh. My system is 9000 watts of grid tie facing South, East and West. I pay nothing for power and the left over credits cover about 80% of my gas heating.
…I have solar, and, am hooked to the grid… the grid doesn’t pay me… the grid, stores my excess power… this winter, is my first yr, of 50 yrs of adulthood, that my cost for air conditioning, and winter heat, has been simply the service charge of the grid connection. ($17.00),
The grid stores my excess power perpetually…it’s banking my power..
Very good spaner
Thanks! I appreciate it.
I’m glad in Maine I store my kilowatts in the grid and use them when I need them.
How do you store your kWh in the grid?
@@LDSreliance they measure how many go in and bank them until I use them.
If you are lucky to have a 1:1 net metering relationship then count your blessings. It won't last much longer.
Good video and very interesting. Would having thicker walls and roof help reduce how much electricity would be used to heat and cool a home over time?
Yes. If you were building a new home and planned to go solar from the beginning, you could improve the efficiency and insulation of your home greatly, which would decrease the need for air conditioning and heating and pay off in the long run.
@@LDSreliance That is very good too know. It would be cool if you could to a little test setup and show the difference. If you can't due to cost I understand.
That would be very hard to do a test on. I don't have Mythbusters' budget :) But I'll think about how I could do that. I am building some buildings in the near future so I will do some videos on the topic while I build for sure, even if I can't test anything quantitatively.
I live off grid in Australia the land down under have a north aspect (Southern hemisphere) and built up my system over the years from 12v to 24v then reconfigured for 48v. About 3kw of solar with a 5kva inverter wired to the house at 240v and storage of 9.6kw Lifepo4 batteries ( I will upgrade adding another battery to 13.8 kw which for me will be ideal, these Lifep04 batteries are the greatest and ideal for solar). I still have two of my original solar panel the are 30 yrs old and still provide useable power. Solar is so cheap now compared to 20 years ago and there are a lot of low energy appliances these days. I live reasonable comfortably using low power everything from LED TVs, lights, lots of ceiling fans a 7 kw split system air con heater and heat pump hot water. Ceiling fans are the best low power option for summer and great for circulating heat over winter. I also charge my plug in hybrid car. Over summer I have plenty of energy but over winter I need to monitor my usage. I mainly use wood heating over winter which I collect from my small hobby farm. It's a low voltage system from the roof and do it yourself system which was added to over time when I had the money. The whole system to date has cost less than $20,000.
That is great to hear! There have been several Aussies comment on this video in similar situations as you. The common thread is always what I described in the video for many of us mindless Americans... you cannot switch to solar power and expect no bill or a low bill unless you change some of your habits and lifestyle. Like you mentioned, you are using all low power appliances and devices. Lots of fans instead of blasting air conditioning all day. Thanks for sharing!
In Ontario Canada i'am on the ultra low rate program for home charging, only use super charges
Solar panels and batteries to store the energy is very expensive. The mindset you need to have is that solar is "helping" you save on your energy bill in the LOOOONG RUN. It is like putting pocket change in a can everyday when you come home. In a few years there are a few hundred debased dollars that you can buy one good night out dinner! LOL!! Great video!
Correct. It is a long term investment but still needs to be done right. Solar panel companies do not have your best interest in mind sometimes. And you'll never get a performance guarantee from them in writing. So educate yourself, get a modest system that will achieve a strong 10-14 year ROI, and then be patient.
On the Off grid system The AC to DC conversions while moving power to and from the battery take a huge chunk off of the profits as well. A complete DC solar system could avoid it, but I think is harder to implement without proper knowledge.
That is true, but even with the losses inherent with batteries they are still superior than selling power back to the utility for pennies. And they also give you the ability to use power when the grid is down, which is a large incentive in going solar, in my opinion.
One thing I'm planning to do in my next house (this one has way too small of a yard) is geothermal air conditioning. With a big enough area (and it doesn't really take all that much), you can pretty much eliminate all "heating" and "cooling" by digging down, usually only around 10', and pumping air (or, better yet, anti-freeze) through coils and up through a radiator. The only cost at that point is the pump for the air (or anti-freeze) and blowers to circulate the conditioned air through your house. I live in the Pacific NW with a pretty moderate climate, so there isn't that much of a tax on the system. Even if I need a little bit of heat in the winter, it's still substantially cheaper than having to run heat and AC throughout the year, or even for 1/2 the year.
I'd love to do that. I've read quite a bit about it but have only seen one house that has it anywhere near me.
@@LDSreliance -- Yeah, I hear ya. I don't know of anyone personally who moved over to it, but it sure seems like a fantastic idea.
I am researching over paneling right now... trying to figure out best methods to maximize battery charging throughout peak sun hours. We are presently living on grid full time in a 50amp RV. I am trying to figure out the best sized system so that we can move full time off grid. We are starting with a prewired Conext SW4048 inverter with MidNite Classic 150 charge controller (not installed yet). I am looking at the newest MPPT Charge Controllers and considering installing two with the appropriate amount of panels/array configuration to charge an Absolyte GX 48v/2,000ah (VLRA battery bank) to store our power. A back up generator will be placed into the system to power during low solar days.
Sounds like a good plan. Make sure that your panels can fully charge your battery bank every single day in proper sun. In other words, if you use lead acid batteries (which I still believe are a great option) then you need to fully charge them before using them again. So your solar panels should be sized so that they can fully charge the batteries during peak sun hours (not daylight hours) so that they are ready for the rest of the day. On days when you don't have optimal sun, you can supplement with the generator. Bonus points if you can get a wind generator in there. Good luck!
Make sure your generator can handle your load plus charging of your batteries. If you want your lead acid batteries to last years longer never ever use them. I never take mine below 25.5vdc on a 24vdc system. Which means a 27.2vdc float By doing this you can greatly decrease the size of your generator thus decreasing gas usage and generator cost and battery cost.
@@thecountrybunkins8896 It was the entire point to finding a 96kw system - to never near dropping out the voltage of the battery bank and being able to recovery the daily usage within a short run time of a generator. Thanks for you response.
We (our HOA) bought a 20.9 kW system about 8 years ago for EUR 34k (~US$37k). The 30 kW system nowadays should cost less than US$ 50k. If you want to cover your own consumption, then you could go for an east-west configuration as it covers more of your own energy consumption. One mistake in the video is that you do not need a lot of sunlight to get enough power to run an airconditioning. In summer you can produce at least some power from ~6 in the morning until 6 in the evening. Say you need 1 kW, then you only need to produce 1/30th of your maximum output if you have a 30 kW system.
But the video is right that going for a zero power bill isn't worth it. Just get panels that produce about what you use currently, and you should roughly cut your electric bill in half. E.g. you use 5,000 kWh/yr, get panels that can produce about that. Roughly that's 5 kWp, depending on where you live.
In my new house in the Philippines there is no feed-in tariff. I'm thinking about getting a battery and just 1 or 2 kWp of solar and use the aircon mostly when the sun is shining. I have no aircon right now, but when I buy it, that will make it worth it to buy solar. I should get 1.4 kWh/yr per Wp here. I use less than 1,000 kWh/yr without aircon, so solar isn't worth it yet. The battery is mostly because we get too many blackouts here.
all I would run on mine would be a 55 inch tv , radios , stereo , phone , PC but prob need a good 5kw or more and in England there is hardly any sun in the winter. even the door bell soler pannel failed to charge the camera but now its getting enough day light to do it.
Yeah, the UK would be tough. What about a small wind turbine? I am sure that would be restricted in heavily populated areas, though.
@LDSreliance yes in clacton by the sea we have lots of these
Even a small one on your roof could help in the winter when the sun isn't doing much. It would trickle charge the battery bank around the clock as long as there is a minimum wind speed (usually about 7mph).
Most net metering is one for one. Some popular solar utillites like San Diego have similar net metering as you described.
No, that is not correct. There are almost zero utilities still offering a one to one arrangement in the United States. And it gets worse every year. With NEM 3.0 in California, the payments for power generated dropped by another 75% recently!
Speaking for the counties I'm affiliated with in Washington state we
're still one for one.@@LDSreliance
What counties?
@@LDSreliance That's just plain wrong. Many states still require utilities to do 1:1 net metering. I have it in PA, I'm about to put in a system at my other house in FL where it's also 1:1. Most of the country is not like California!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering_in_the_United_States
I pay around 15dlls a month after I changed
to led lights upgraded tv and washer , fire stick instead of a PC,solar makes no sense for me but I did buy 1 solar panel and one solar generator, more for an emergency especially rainy days power goes out for a day or 2. Great video love them
I always find it so crwzy when people pay so little for pwr when ive beennused to my family paying $500 on low end to $1000 a month in summer when we have to run ac and not even full time. We suffer and wait til it hits 100° before we turn the ac on because the cost is just outrageous.
Our average is $750 a month for a 1 story 5 bed house. But 10 ppl live here.
We go through about 16kwh a month averaged throughout the year.
But also since you have a little battery and solar panel why not just have it out and collect that energy and pay maybe $10 a month or $5 a month and charge your cellphone/ other small items on that free energy?
@@vincentsgaming holly molly, my highest last year was 30bucks a month and lowest 10 bucks, I just have one ac and never really use it, usually use fans, we are only 4 people, I am in puerto Vallarta mexico now, when I was in San Diego my electric bill was higher can't remember what it was
@@vincentsgamingthat's good idea actually setting it up I got a desk where I have my xbox , PC, couple laptops the cell phones and a treadmill all hooked up to the solar generator, I'll save a couple bucks and it will pay for itself in 30 years lol I spent about 1k DLLs , save a bit while I wait for the grid down 😆.
@SlackersIndustry yeah man. Buying the panel and battery and not using it until an emergency occurs is not very cost effective. If you have it might as well use it and start payijg it off in savings quicker rather then later. How many watts is that panel you bought? Must be a lot if you plan on running all those items. And of course even if it only saves you $5-$10 a month thats extra food you can go buy yourself, or hell save it up for another panel and double your savings.
For me if I can run my Aircon in summer and not worry about my the extra bill then I am happy.
expectations are what is a solar killer. People don't seem to understand how having a solar system that connects to the grid works and also the maintenance that is required for the system, that is what kills the idea, not to mention the shady crap some solar sales and installers do just to get a buck.
Agreed.
Like gas heating (and petroleum) , electricity is more expensive in the UK and where I live in the north we get less sunshine. I'm expanding my solar, I'll likely never get my money back but at equivalent of 40-50 cents per KW/h it's a matter of principle not giving my cash to the energy companies. I'm looking at sand batteries and other means to store heat but also heat pumps. I'm surprised at how much it costs per month to power a big fridge freezer buy I enjoy seeing how much I can save on electricity bills by using solar. It's pretty much night time here as I write this but I do so on a Mac with 2 large screens all powered from today's sunshine stored in huge batteries and the lighting in here as well is from my own energy source. I'm also interested in seeing if I can use solar for the production of hydrogen via electrolysis. It's all theoretical but very interesting.
Where i live, during winter, we can easly go 3 weeks with out sun..............
1:00 The solar panel operates the roof fan during the day. It stores energy in the battery to run the fan during the night. But America is quite windy. We can reduce the load of the solar panel by using a wind turbine.
I agree in principle. But show me a wind turbine with any meaningful production that you can use mounted to the roof of an RV. I've been looking for something like that for 12 years. There aren't any, unfortunately.
@@LDSreliance There are +5kW wind turbines on the market. Wind turbines must be at a certain height to work. It would be difficult to install the +165kg wind turbine on the roof of the caravan. Dismantling the turbine while leaving will again be extremely troublesome. That's why special wind turbines need to be developed for caravans. For example, the energy produced in the turbine can be transferred to the electric motor through gears and shafts. In this way, we can place the electric motor on the floor of the caravan. When necessary, we can turn the vertical shaft into a horizontal position with the help of a simple mechanism (Mechanical engineers can easily handle this). We can even do this automatically with an electric linear actuator. You can even make good money from this. Here's an idea.
I agree. I keep seeing promising technology, such as new VAWT designs, but they never come to market. Even some ultra small ones that are portable and designed for tent camping and hiking. You can see stuff like that on Kickstarter all the time but never commercially available. It is very frustrating.
Heating water is by far the most expensive in terms of energy use. Heating the hot tub and pool is very expensive. I turned on my little portable water heater that boils water for my French press, watching it through the enphase app, it jumps to 6kWh use.
If your French press is using 6,000W you need to throw it away, my friend. Even a large electric water heater for an entire house, like I have, is only about 5,000W. And that is a dual heating element unit that is heating 80 gallons.
@@LDSrelianceWell think about it, its designed to bring a small amount of water to 212 degrees F in a very short period of time, it is maybe on for 2 minutes max vs a water heater which is designed to heat a larger volume of water up to what 105-110? My point is that heating water is one of the most costly things you can do energy wise.
That is the key, though. Small amount of water. A coffee maker uses a max of 1200W.
I agree that any sort of electric heating is bad. It doesn't have to be heating for HVAC. Electric clothes dryers, hair dryers, air fryers, toaster ovens, microwaves, hot water heaters, and even curling irons all use lots of power. But most people underestimate just how much it hurts, especially if you use it outside of peak sun hours after going solar.
@@LDSrelianceRecently caught a video on heatpump hybrid water heaters which are pretty efficient to start with. But in the south many of the water heaters are in the garage, which kills two birds with one stone, you have the exhaust being really cool air which cools the garage, and the higher efficiency of the heatpump. Great efficiency and use the waste, that's pretty hard to beat.
yes mate this sounds honest, solar is not made to run a house but if you do
and yes you can it have a cost.
Install a soft start device on your HVAC compressors and your fridge or freezer.
That helps to smooth out the huge current spike on startup, but it doesn't change the energy usage to operate.
You convinced em. I dont want solar. If I want power when the sun is not shining I would need thousands of dollars worth of batteries and that would be bad. I got an estimate for solar for my home and it was 75,000.00 dollars. I don't think so.
Don't give up on solar. Just educate yourself until you know how to use it properly and then you can go to the solar companies and tell them what you want instead of them selling you what they want you to have.
The success is for me very simple: break-even was after 8 years, and currently (6 year later) still up-and-running. 🤣
Sounds awesome! Glad you had success.
Simple solution for just about everything I run a 120v hot water heater and everything else is no concern running off solar and battery.
Going to try an EG4 12k hybrid mini split ($1300) and replace the need to use (without removing) the gas central heat/cool for a 2000 sqft house. Just starting with one unit to test out and a bunch of panels (400W bifacial @ $120/ea). Not going to tie into the grid for net metering. Ground mounting panels. No batteries to start. Solar (3-4 panels) direct to unit in the day / 110V grid to unit at night. If it works well, I'll try an alibaba 12k hybrid mini split unit for $400/ea in use with my extra solar panels, but it will take 2 months to ship, and quality unknown. We'll see. Getting freight this week. 748 lbs... yikes. each panel is 57 lbs.
Post your results! I am curious how that turns out.
I am always surprised that often these solar systems are bolted on roofs with shingles. Its a hige painin the butt to remove your system to allow the roofers to replace the shingles. Go with steel roofs folks. So much longer lasting and better for the environment.
Your last sentence is open for debate, but I agree with the rest. It is often written into the contract a price to remove the panels for roof replacement or maintenance. But it is not cheap and your panels SHOULD outlast a shingle roof so it is definitely something you need to be prepared to pay for if you plan to own the home a long time.
*You need at least a football field's worth of solar panels just to have the power you need.*
Remember, many days are cloudy. Winter time has less sunshine.
And then there is snow....
Remember, you have a lot of losses due to electronics to run the system.
And battery inefficiency/lifespan comes to mind too.
Fun fact: did you know they make a hand crank laptop?
so true
Come back in 6 months and read all the folks wanting to argue about it haha
Battery storage is 10 cents per kwhr over life of system. That is less than 1/2 the cost of buying a kwhr from utility vastly reducing size of PV array needed. You don't need a weeks worth of battery for worst case situation. Use grid for multi day cloudy periods. Alt is oversize array to get substantial charge in cloudy weather, probably still cheaper than grid.
I agree with you in general. It depends on where you live on the costs from your utility, though. And your pricing on battery storage is dependent on what kind of battery you are buying (even among lithium iron phosphate there are several grades of batteries from the Amazon junk to the certified Grade A batteries with top shelf cells). But batteries very clearly are the answer to all of our grid problems.
Utility companies don’t want your electricity in the daytime,especially since grid scale solar farms are coming on line exponentially.
It would be unreasonable to expect them to pay more than the $,04 per KWH it costs to produce it themselves. Grid. scale batteries are also coming on line which shows the way for home owners.I have 50KWH of LFP server rack batteries which you can buy from Signature Solar for $12,690 . I can’t imagine why I would want to sell power to the grid except during peak hours if they paid extra for it. The high cost and complexity of grid tie is hard to recover. Also if you buy the system from a solar company, you can’t make modifications until it is paid for.
In contrast,off grid DIY can be scaled up incrementally paying cash as you add panels,batteries,or inverter capacity.
Since battery and panel prices and technology are improving, it makes even more sense to avoid going into debt by buying a huge system when you can take advantage of improvements in price and performance.
I'm fine with that. The problem is the goalposts keep moving. At first it was 1:1. And I agree that wasn't sustainable as solar gained popularity. But now with NEM 3.0 in California, you get a couple pennies per kWh and pay $0.30+ per kWh in some places.
And I'm fine with the different rates but they don't also need connection fees (monthly fees just for the privilege of being connected to their system) and large up front fees when you are doing the install.
I just want to highlight to people that the days of net zero energy bills are over.
In my van I’m fortunate to roll the windows down and park in the shade. No energy needed 🎈
Amen!
Here's a plan that's working. And one needs to take in account that night power after 8pm until 7am is off peak. So you use and produce solar during peak. Tune heating and air to gain ground during peak and only slowly maintain losing ground over night. Use a heat pump for this. 40% more efficient than trad heat and ac. Get 4kwh of battery to cover spike loads day and night, aka microwave. Bath or shower... 30KWH system in MN is about 80k. But a 11kwh system is 40k.
That could work. If your house was very well insulated and efficient it would take many hours for the temperature to drop or raise to an uncomfortable level. But that is exactly my point in the video. You can't run your AC and electric heat the same way you did when you were paying the power company for grid power. You have to make concessions or alterations or investments or change in habits in order to make it work. And most people aren't willing to do that.
No net metering, period. Use what you produce and store rest in battery. Run down battery when no sun and buy rest from utility company. 100% off grid makes no sense, only if there is no grid available since one has no choice.
We still pay $70 a month from grid even if we use no electricity at all. Just connection fee. That’s $16,800 in 20 years to stay connected to grid when in off grid. only need grid power for 2-3 months of the year. A generator can run for 1-3 hours consuming as little as $5 in fuel to charge batteries to 100% and provide a days worth of power or more on cloudy days. Full off grid does make sense given the circumstances
Then when you factor in power surges coming from grid that fry electronics (happened to us and neighbors) it adds more cost. Power outages from grid in days or up to a week at a time we have had makes us need a generator anyways. So that cost is a write off…
I agree with @bestgreenhomestead here. Off grid makes total sense in a lot of scenarios. The relationship between homeowner and utility gets more and more one sided when it comes to pricing and also solar. They hold all the cards. And what do you get when they fail to provide you the service they are supposed to provide, such as in the winter of 2021 in Texas?? You get 200+ deaths and exorbitant power bills for what little power you were able to consume.
disagree for my state it would be cheaper to be off grid and just use a gas generator to charge the battery bank
"...only if there is no grid and you have no choice". Well, I suppose it does make sense, in that case. 😅
Here is a tip to help you plan your system. This works if you currently have a smart meter. My utilities smart meter allows me to view hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, and up to 2 years' worth of data. Now you know how to plan for average daily intake consumption and how much battery storage for nightly consumption. 😊
100.000$ for a 30kw solar system, I just got an offer on a 35kw solar system for 20.000$ and that is the normal price today.
I want to live in your fantasy world.
Been scratching my head wondering why more arent building offgrid - guess its just lack of knowledge. Planning on building my own 48v system with a transfer switch, no feedin. Top quality equipmemt, still cheaper than grid tie, works thru a blackout.
I agree. Use a transfer switch to go back to grid power if you need it.
8:00 You should create a new video called "Net metering sucks DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE".
No need. It sucks everywhere. The economics at play haven't kicked in for some areas. But being in a one-sided legal relationship with an electric utility that can decide at any time to lower the rate that they pay you sucks. By definition that sucks. They have the power to decrease your investment and there is nothing you can do about it. And it is a continuum. Far enough down the rabbit hole and you start to get huge fees added to your bill every month in addition to the tiny rates they will pay for your power. Just look at California. They are leading the charge because they have a higher adoption rate than the rest of the country but every year more and more utilities are following that path as more and more people in other places go solar and start feeding the grid and impacting the financials of these companies.
The number reason is usually there is one person who pays the bill. Since said person pays the bill he is the only person who is turning off lights, TVs, and fans that the other 5 people never turn off. If the bill by law were rotated to the different members they would also be turning off said items instead of looking at him like he is cheap and crazy.
Haha touche
thanks for this video.
I was doubting my own calculations about the rip off of having solar tied to the grid.
I own an office space that is 100% solar. It will stay that way.
Glad I could help! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Actually built an off grid solar house heating system myself only takes 70 watts an hour and the natural gas itself
Nice! It is definitely possible.
Good video. Got a friend who installed a lot of solar panels on his house, keeps running air conditioning from late spring to early autumn and wonder why he still get a bill from the electric company, i'm not surprised.
Personally i'd rather have a large battery storage capacity and some kind of price meter that checks if the prices are low and charges at that point - that would save a lot of money. We get lots of varying price on electricity here in Sweden and sometimes it's free (like a week ago when there was a storm) and sometimes the prices of electricity go up to a dollar per KWH when the weather go down deep below 0'C, not the worst though, the price of electricity in Finland during the last cold front was $4 per KWH, and yet they just opened up a new nuclear plant there.
A device that let you configure when to sell electricity to the grid would be interesting. But I would bet the utilities would shut that down in a heartbeat.
@@LDSreliance It's actually encouraged here in Finland.
The whole point of variable price contracts is to help balance supply and consumption as variable green generation grows and takes over from fossil fuel plants.
Here we can pick who we buy electricity from (the grid connection and transfer fees are paid separately to the grid operator that serves the area) and there are many contract types, some with fixed price, some with variable price based on time of use and some with hourly price based on Nord Pool power exchange.
The prices are known in advance for about the next 24 hours, enabling all kinds of automation to optimize your usage based on needs, price, possible self generation and/or battery.
As I'm writing this the Nord Pool price is 6.91c€/kWh and will dip to 1.50 tomorrow night. 7 day moving average is currently 5.47c€/kWh with a peak of about 12.
I have no problem with variable price contracts. But that has nothing to do with NEM. The NEM agreements here in the United States are decidedly in favor of the utilities to protect their profits and they are getting worse and worse each year. California just passed NEM 3.0 which further drops payments to solar generators by another 75%.
There is no automation of a solar panel system. It generates power based on nature's schedule. So unless you have a large battery bank that can store all of the power you need for off peak hours, you have zero chance of even close to a zero power bill. And the batteries to pull that off will be more expensive than the solar panel system itself. So, again, the point of the video was to help people understand that they have to change their habits OR change their expectations.
It is true what you say. But you should deduct the energy you produce when the sun is out. I mean, if you get 6 hours of sun your panels will provide all the energy you need for the 6 hours. And you pay for the 2,5 hours left
Also, energy in the us is extremly cheap.
so true. About 10% of all the lecky consumed in the world is by pumps: water pumps, air con, fuel pumps, refrigeration, the list is endless
The federal government- VA Loan and FHA programs will not loan money on a off grid solar home...
You didn't seem to mention the effect a decent sized battery bank configuration would have on your data.
I did mention that in the off grid example. But 99% of grid tied systems do not have a meaningful battery bank associated with them. A powerwall or similar device is woefully too small. It is designed to offload some of the power you generated during the daytime over the nighttime hours to offset some of your usage. But it cannot power electric heat or AC as mentioned in the video and it certainly cannot get you through a cloudy day, let alone 3.
Better still, live in a moderate climate, in the water (boat).
The isolation of the water in winter and summer keep the
discomfortable and expensive temperature peaks out of your life.
I'm not quite sure it needs to be described with this level of complexity. There are only two calculations you really need to make.
The first is the cost of your system (solar or solar + battery) verses the kWh/day worth of utility power that you can offset from self-consumption, on average, multiplied by the utility cost $/kWh and 365 days.
The second is knowing whether you can net-meter with the utility (no need for batteries, just grid-tie and produce from solar), or not (calculate export separately or just assume it is zero, and decide how much battery buffering you want to improve the amount of utility power you can offset).
But that's pretty much it. Cost of system vs reduction in utility bill = break-even period. No need to offset every last joule of energy. No need to zero your bill (in fact, it is less efficient to try to completely zero your utility bill). No need to even have whole-house backup or automatic transfer switches or anything like that, unless you really want it. No need for the solar or solar+battery system to actually support household loads on its own, unless you really want it to.
Beyond that, I usually just assume that other cost adjustments offset each other, such as the actual cost of money (a yield calculation) verses inflation (utility prices going up). As a rule of thumb, most of the fine points tend to cancel each other out and can be ignored. Really. You only need to calculate and understand the primary costs and there are only a couple of those.
--
The "cost of the system" is the part home owners mess up on the most. Having a system professionally installed can be very expensive. On the other-hand, people able to DIY large portions of their system can almost universally break-even in less than 10 years (if they even care about breaking even).
For example, I DIY'd a system with 2kW solar / 10kWh of storage. I live in an expensive state and I am able to offset, on average, $3/day worth of my consumption. That's around $1100/year in savings. The system cost me around $6000 to build. So 5-year break-even, roughly.
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The state you live in matters... the cost of the electricity from the utility that is. It matters a lot. Whether you can get net-metering with the utility matters as well. DIY systems can break-even in 5 years in states like California with high utility costs (professionally installed systems usually take more around 10 years, and that's still approximately correct even under NEM-3 without net-metering).
In a state like Idaho, however, where electricity is very cheap, breaking even might not be possible with a professionally-installed system at all. And with DIY it might still take a very long time... like 15 years.
It also depends how much electricity you consume. Heavy electricity consumers can break-even much more quickly than light electricity consumers. It is just all-around a lot easier to offset energy use when you are a heavy consumer. So if the family owns an EV, or has a pool,. or otherwise burns a lot of electricity on A/C or heating... then solar can become practical even in "cheap" states.
The reason for this is because you can self-consume a large chunk of your solar directly during the day, which is the cheapest installation possible... a simple grid-tied solar system with no batteries.
Light electricity users, on the other-hand, can't justify the fixed costs of the installation because they just can't offset enough usage to break-even on it.
-Matt
I agree with you on your approach to the analysis. Unfortunately, almost all homeowners look at it the way I described in the video. And almost all solar salesmen are using that as the lure to draw in customers (How would you like to have zero electric bill and a low monthly payment on some solar panels??)
True. I spent 10k to help reduce cost but more for the coming shit storm.
I'm grid tied 4.8k solar array, Enphase system, in Virginia,1 to 1 conversion with Dominion Power, although it's not quite 1 to 1 after they charge you there monthly fees. That being said my house is 2600 sq. ft all electric, my bill is not always zero, some cold months cost me $50 to $100, less with extreme heat months, all others basically zero $. My system is paid for but did cost 36000. No battery backup. In a grid down most will say it's useless, but I have 2 solar generators, they can take in over 2000w solar each,10 kw battery storage, and each have 2 mppt controllers, so I'd simply rewire me roof from a ac system to a dc system, to my generators. Just how it works for me. But in all reality, I'd much rather be off grid completely
Because I am a member of an electric Cooperative I have a different scenario, I paid 14.7 cents per kilowatt hour from electricity and if I were to sell it back to the co-op, they buy it back at their cost not mine so I would have to sell it back to them in 3.2 cents per kilowatt hour
That isn't any different than the scenario that I described. Just different numbers.
@@LDSreliance yes, I figured that out as I left the video play out. However, there are places that will pay you back dollar for dollar for energy that you generate.
There are still a few that are hooked up to smaller utilities. But they won't last long. The same economics will play out for them as for the larger utilities and the states where solar is more popular.
@@LDSreliance i’m surrounded by windfarms, yet none of the power is local, it all goes to San Antonio.
Yeah, co-ops are odd. Most of them don't have much of their own generation and they get most or all of their power from wholesale. That wholesale power can come from the other side of the state or two states away (not in Texas, since we have our own grid).
If you pay 25 cents and get a credit of 6 cents per kW, it is not really net metering, but an unfair arrangement. In Ontario, Canada, you still get a 1:1 credit. I hope that it will remain like this. In 2023, I ha a zero electrical bill!
Has anyone ever seen a house with 1 200w solar panel? Me either, the ones I see have 15-40 350w or larger.
Yes. But what does that have to do with the video?
I would say buying used solar panels will help the cost greatly you can get 300watt solar panels for 30 dollars a panel the biggest cost is battery's I bought 4 300amp hour lithum battery's for my 24 volt system and it costed me 2000 dollar's but I do have 4000 watt's of solar power on 2 systems and in total only costed me 7000 dollars total for everything I bought lots of stuff from used sellers in town met up with the people that sell used panels and they some times give charge controllers to you for like 100 bucks I use 24 volt for everything as well if you want to use lots of stuff use dc power for any load you want to use all the time like your freezer refrigerator my mini split uses dc power as well but I don't like to run it all the time I mostly run my 240 watt fan that blows out lots of air and use my propane tanks to heat my house for the night I mostly use the mini split just for around 2 hours to get the heat off and have the fan do the rest of the work or when i run out of propane for heating
Where are you getting 300W panels for $30 a panel? This is the best I have ever seen at $80 for 325W (SanTan solar - www.santansolar.com/product/used-ja-solar-325w-solar-panel-2/). Maybe you could find a killer deal here and there but you cannot get panels for that cheap consistently.
@@LDSrelianceI get it from a local reseller that buys in bulk
I would look around in places like facebook marketplace craigslist places like that to find local resellers
Ultimately, the powers that be do not want you self sufficient in any way.
If lots of people were to go off grid and become truly self sufficient, the gubment would tax their production and put other regulations on them.
...and it would all be "for your own good".
I know. But until they figure out how to control/tax/regulate off grid living, I'm going to enjoy it.
How much does a 390w solar panel cost in USA? In Europe a palet of 36 panels costs 4700 euros and should generate 84 kWh per day.
The panels are the least of the problems. It is the relationship with the utility that is the major problem.
@@LDSreliance I agree with the cause. So any installation must be independent of the utility company (through batteries) otherwise there is no benefit because of the non-favorable deficit between tarifs.
Agreed
👍👍
1. buying them 2. Installing them
I'm in a city (small city of less than 50k people) and want to save money during the day ONLY on some daytime appliances and other. Example: Refrigerator, lights, toaster, microwave and computers (monitors/desktops and laptops). Some of those items use a small amount of electricity and aren't going to be used all day. Other items are going to be used all day. Some items are going to be used sporadically but use tremendous amount of power. In order to do this successfully I'm thinking 10kw setup at minimum. How much will I save per day from my on-grid company per day, thus when I get my monthly bill will I truly only save 20 or even 100$ per month? Now I have to see about purchasing DYI kits that are going to cost less than have a company come by and charge me 50k for that setup. I know I can do it myself for around 12k or less and I'm talking a ground mount setup.
Anyway, how many years will it take of "savings" to pay off my investment of not only money but time to setup? Is it worth it? Truth for most people out there is if they heard the hard facts and numbers involved, they wouldn't bother with the investment at all. EDIT: Arizona has an amazing amount of sun hours so that at least helps me regarding a consideration of solar.
In most calculations that I do for people, it is about a 10 year investment if they are smart and cost conscious. That timeframe can obviously go way up if you live in a bad solar area or you are bad with your money and research. Ground mount setups are superior in every way to roof mounted setups. They are also cheaper. The only problem I see with your plan is that doing a DIY system that is grid tied will be much more challenging. You will have to work with a licensed electrician at some point and you will have to submit plans and pass inspections with the utility, usually. You will also have to pay a bunch of fees to the utility, which will affect your ROI and payback period.
@@LDSreliance Thank you for the insight. 100% true. Sucks because DYI is literally 5 (no joke) than paying a company to do it for you. Also to tie in to the grid here is like a 2 year waiting list. Electric company is seriously behind with it. LOTS of folks in AZ do this.