Ep. 92 - The Motor Spins!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Wow, ok, so this is a lot! It took a LOT more work than expected, but the motor is finally under my own control!
The Kelly KLS-72100N, Golden Motor 10kw BLDC, and my own home brew (with your help!) arduino-based helm controls are all talking and working together. It's been a slog, but holy moly have I ever learned a lot. ^_^
We use MCP4725 12-bit DACs to send voltages to the controller, and a TI ULN2003a Darlington transistor array to flip the switches going to the controller. I also chase down a voltage issue that turns out to be a really dumb oops on my side.
-=] References
* Github Repo;
* github.com/digimer/Mermaids-Rest
* Kelly Controller and Golden Motor wiring and programming notes;
* docs.google.com/document/d/1q...
* Solar Module Spreadsheet
* docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
* Ep. 20 - • Solar Panel Connection...
-=] Channels that have Helped Me;
* @ProjectBrupeg
* @OffGridGarageAustralia
* @AcornToArabella
* @BillCarlson
-=] Chapters
0:00 - Intro, Springs, and Solar
1:28 - The Contactor is Hot! Why?
2:45 - Setting Up Solar Charging
8:37 - My Viewers Know Me Well
11:37 - Reconfiguring Victron SmartShunt
13:22 - Mic Failure and Pin Puller Tools
15:50 - Solar Charging Success!
16:11 - Adding Regen Support (a Second Pot and DAC)
21:33 - Saved By Patreons! Ignoring Trolls...
27:17 - What if the Throttle Cable Breaks?
29:31 - Adding Code Support for Regen
35:58 - A Kitty Interlude With a Sad Update
37:56 - Debugging Weird Numbers
43:22 - Noob Mistake, Voltage Issues
47:49 - Going Down The Wrong Path
49:31 - First Use of a Wonderful Gift! - Riden RD6024
52:33 - A Fresh Introduction; Fixing My Fixes
55:55 - Connecting The DACs to the Controller
56:49 - What Switches Do I Need?
59:38 - Flipping Switches With a Darlington Transistor Array
1:01:14 - Direction Control, Throttle and Speed Settings on a Boat
1:04:01 - Flipping Switches With Software
1:07:28 - Making Switches Stable With Resistors
1:09:36 - Stuck! Saved By Andrew (Again)
1:12:04 - The Incredible Value of Community
1:13:41 - Verifying The Switches Are Stable
1:15:22 - Configuring the Kelly KLS Controller
1:21:11 - Verifying Switch Voltages
1:23:03 - Final Pre-Spin Wiring
1:24:12 - Ready To Spin...
1:26:02 - IT SPINS!!!!! - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Commenting to be one of the positives. What I like about these videos is we are on the journey, seeing all the troubleshooting. It is an "anyone can do this" journey, where you go off and learn whatever it is you need, or can "call a friend" to help or check on something specific. Its just a raw project, not just editing to make it look like everything like it goes smoothly. But we see progress every time, so it works you just need the right attitude to keep learning and progressing and getting closer and closer to an epic goal. Thanks for sharing still got 50 mins to watch.
This makes me happy to read, because that's exactly what I wanted this channel to be about. I know it's too "in the weeds" to ever get to be too popular, but that's not the point. I want to show people what it's really like and, most importantly, making mistakes, going down dead ends, and getting help is totally normal and just part of the process. ^_^
Ok time to own up. I don’t have any interest in the sea or boating. But I love electronics and I am teaching myself the Arduino. Since finding your channel, by accident, have become hooked on your never ending enthusiasm and pure love of learning. Keep it up. Thank you for sharing.
I often try to model the little community I'm trying to build here on a maker space I used to be a member of many years ago. One of my favourite things about it was that everyone came in with their own interests, and that meant that you'd come across folks working on projects you'd never have taken an interest in otherwise. In the end, it's all about that little (or big!) dopamine rush when you "get it" for the first time. Learning is addictive, and it's super fun seeing other people get it, too, whatever "it" happens to be for them.
It SPINS!!! Congratulations. Quite an achievement. You should be proud of yourself.
Thanks David, I certainly am happy and relieved!
I've only got 16 minutes in, but those MPPT controllers have metal heat sinks, if yourself or a cat was to catch the cables, they could very well get pulled down on top of the exposed cell terminals. There's a nice space on the floor next to the cells, much safer there if they have not already been moved.
Hrm, that's probably a good idea. I got some bus bars, so I need to rework it anyway.
Your smile at the end, said it ALL. Well done you!!
It's honestly what DIY is all about, isn't it? Doesn't matter what someone is doing, that first moment after a LOT of work, seeing the pay-off... You can't explain it, until you've felt it. ^_^
Woohoo controlled spinning! I'm still trying to picture what it's gonna look like when you have her out on the water cruising and the projects are over, but of course the projects will never be over.
Haha, the projects will never be over, I had soooooo many plans. That said, the first time I move the boat under electric power... Good lord, that's going to be SOOOOO satisfying!
My idea for a pre-charge resistor is a normally off push-button switch. So it’s only on for the few seconds I’m holding down the button.
Aye, that's what I had before. I used the latching switch as it's what I had at the time. I've now got a new momentary contact switch to swap in.
All servo testing set ups need a E-STOP. I have 6 inch roll over with me standing on it. Years ago and far away, three phase servos were tuned by turning the shaft back and forth, with your bare hand, while changing numbers a little to tens of thousands. Auto tune is a modern plug and play installation aid.
Keep pushing on.
By now a few mins in this vid, I'd make check lists for on / off / Maintenance operations... I'm not afraid of high current sources like big batteries and large caps per se, but I certainly bring a healthy dose of respect for it. I am always very mindful with metal tools, where to put 'em down and where my hands may go and accidentally shove tools in the "wrong" direction. Seems easier to launch nuclear missiles than setting this up 😂👍 great content!
In time, I'd like to create a single button "start up" switch that automates the startup tasks, like holding the precharge resistors before connecting the contactor/booting the controller. In any case, there will certainly be instructions (in a very 80s sci-fi setup) at the helm. :)
@@TheDigitalMermaid Yep! Automation with plenty of fuses is very helpful, time well spent. In my previous line of work I designed electronics for production equipment. I used to think it was a cat n mouse game of figuring out beforehand "What might be the worst case scenario provoked by an idiot". Let me be clear, idiots aren't the worst, the Dunning-Kruger curve accurately predicts which (usually well meaning) people and what they can do to "fix the production annoyances" 😩 I too had a learning curve. Alot of bright yellow stickers, symbolic lightning bolts aslo with plain language "Will vaporise a screwdriver if dropped inside". Lock the doors or shut it in by a panel and screws, the added layer of needing tools or keys does help.
However, in "home Lab", no guests so far, I wing it like you, sometimes with alot of tape until I can box it in, put on plastic / rubber caps to isolate from accidental tool contact.
With several similar sized bare metal connector (preferably those that have odd shape like ring (shoe?) crimp connectors, i.e. separate from round cross section); For those that are projected to be being attached and detached often enough (during build test phase) I clip short pieces of tubing (most pvc but also some silicone tubing), slip on, held there by enough friction / deforming and are reuseable. Round plugs are more finnicky, they require a more precise size match to lock with friction, rubber or silicone tube are the usual suspects that'll work.
The maniacal laugh of success. I love it!
Well done!
It's those moments that make all of the work and frustration suddenly worth it.
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉
I love the way you deal with trolls and negativity, I don't think you could fail at anything, you'll stumble and take a little longer, but with your attitude you'll win.
Just a thought.
When I have parameters that I may need to adjust under operation, I use variables that are accessible during operation and save them in an EEPROM or config file in a file system like LittleFS. That way I don't have to mess with code and recompile to fix an adjustment.
Of course, I no longer use Arduino boards but ESP32 or 8266 boards for easy access to the chip from my phone. A combination of ESP and Arduino would expand capabilities.
Good job learning about all the many aspects of what you're doing. Good luck getting that boat electrified!
I LOVE the enthusiasm - after loads of work . Oh, I understand so well !!!
Honestly, the payoff is worth it _because_ of all the hard work. You can't enjoy the finished product so much otherwise, I think. :)
Great job young lady. I just about fell off my rocker when you got her going .!!!
Yay! Congrats on getting the spinny thing finally spinning! This was a hell of a nailbiter.
I was so used to it not working that when it finally did, it took me by surprise.
When stumbling across your video I didn't notice the length of the video. When I did I thought "ain't no way I'm watching this whole thing" but I thoroughly enjoyed watching the process, the ups and downs. I was also excited along with you when it finally turned. Great job. You have one more subscriber now
OK, this is a brilliant compliment, thanks Dustan, and welcome!! ^_^
Congratulations Mady. Your channel is so much fun to follow, even for an old sailor like me who is going to stay with his Yanmar diesel engine.
This makes me happy to read! I never set out to convince people to go electric, my only goal has been to encourage people to do whatever things they've thought of doing. Take on a project, build something, learn something. Just get out and have fun, however and whatever that means to each person. :D
I'm kind of new here, but seeing you debugging and finally running the motor as intended is fun and joyful, congratulations!
Welcome to the channel, Ev! I've always loved watching channels that do the "hang out with me in the garage" style videos, and I'm really happy folks are enjoying my version of the same. :D
breadboards are great but something to keep in mind is that it's incredibly easy to get dodgy connections. it doesn't sound like this was your problem with the switches but whenever i have problems with something on a breadboard i give everything a good poke to make sure it's not just a wire that's making intermittent contact. you see to be a lot better at the JST crimping than i was! felt like i needed about seven hands to keep everything in place :( ended up clamping the crimper to a bench
I saw a trick to "mount" the connector in the jaws before trying to fit the wire. As soon as I feel a bit more confident, I'll make a little video to show how I do it. I bought the new breadboard, partly, because I was worried about how old/loose my old one was. Good point just the same, and I'll keep that in mind as a source of problems later.
I discovered your channel yesterday, through the previous video (91). Immediately loved the vibe of these videos, and will likely be watching the entire series from the start (probably also at a pace that is way too high). As someone who is just getting into hobby electronics, I love seeing someone work with big "scary" electronics, while also still struggling (very much like myself) with the "simple" arduino stuff.
You've definitely got my subscription, I'm gonna love watching you learn and will absolutely be learning alongside you.
Your philosophy and story about community really resonated with me, I thought that was really beautiful. I have recently started to teach myself linux, and I must say I've been scared to ask questions, as I am coming from Windows. You kinda opened my eyes to the differences between the communities there.
Congrats on the big milestone, I cheered with you when I saw it spin, and that's after only watching the previous episode. I can't imagine the joy you must have felt after 92 episodes building up to this. Already looking forward to the next video, I'll be tuning in! :))
Welcome, and I'm happy you enjoy this style of video! It's slow and ponderous, but I didn't see much like it when I started out. As with any community, you'll find some toxic parts around linux, but by and by, the communities are great. If you come across an elitist group, meh, find another. Plenty of amazing ones out there. ^_^
@@TheDigitalMermaidFirst of all congratulations love the video and enjoyed watching your progress with the motor. I have tried using Linux, different distros, desktop managers, etc., whenever I have asked a question, or went to a forum to figure out a solution I have had people laugh, be demeaning, go out of their way to insult me that I did not know how to do that, and that I was looking for a GUI solution for this issue or that issue. Like even had Linux devs go out of their way to not answer the questions and to insult me that I didn't know how to do this or that and even the people that did try to help did it while insulting me. I'm sorry but after a while it becomes very discouraging, and I just gave up on trying to run Linux. Had the same issues with mac users, when I had to use one for a certain class I took, to the pint I figured out how to use a Windows machine to do the things the class required, their attitude almost made me give up on going back to school to learn the things I was interested in expanding my education around. I have used Windows since 3.1 and used every version except server editions can count on one hand the number of times I had it crash, but my favorite part is the community I had issues programming in python, or setting up certain custom things I want to do, and the community is willing to help, they are usually very nice and patient, and will help you out to the point they take time out of their lives to an almost detriment to understand and fix your issue, even had people on the forums give me their personal email and phone number to try to help. I would like to try Linux again just to learn more, because computing and tech is my passion, but if the community is still the same, I won't put myself through that again. That is the irony of the Linux community, they say they want this to be the year of the Linux desktop but go out of their way to insult people who are genuinely, trying to learn Linux. Yes, I have had some users who were helpful and tried to help the issues I had but a good 95% were the ones being insulting etc. Even when LTT tried the switching to Linux one month challenge, he also had the same issues trying to troubleshoot and fix issues he had. Sorry for the long reply, again great video and I am glad you got the motor working.
I love your work. Here are a few thoughts. When you were getting 1V ish on the driver inputs, that looks like what would happen if they were just darlingtons with emitter to ground. since the ULN2003 has a 2.7K base resistor, it would only take 1mA to get that input up to 5V. So possibly either the arduino output is somehow a really weak pull up or possibly you actually have a ULN2001 which does not have the input resistors, in which case it would only go two diode drops above the ground terminal. If that is the case you can just add the resistors.
It is probably good to add some power supply bypassing on your breadboard. The modules probably have their own but you are building a system and there will be some real word currents, resistance and inductance, and therefore voltage drops and unwanted interactions.
Beware when using I2C between modules. Keep in mind what other currents are flowing between the various ground paths and what voltage drop they will cause. I did a lot of I2C/SMB debugging projects where this showed up as an issue. In one case the SMB (glorified I2C bus) BMS chip was grounded on the battery side of an internal current shunt in a battery pack. So charge and discharge current cause a voltage to be developed across that resistor (and the battery connector, wires etc). That voltage lifts or lowers the ground reference for the I2C chip. Since the Low level threshold can be as low as 1V it doesn't take much ground level shift from one subsystem to another to cause a One sent from one side to be received as a Zero at the other end.
I find it helpful to draw up a full schematic including the unintended resistances of connectors and conductors to help visualize the whole picture.
That big fat wire is not a wire, it is a resistor.
Please continue having fun.
I2C is a simple serial protocol using 2 wires (and GND): one signal is the clock (SCK) and the other is the data (SDA). The clock is always driven by the master while the data is driven by either the master or the slave, depending on the direction of the operation.
All devices can only ever output a logic 0 (open drain output), the logic 1 state is obtained by a pull up resistor on the signal (both SCK and SDA function this way). So only when a logic 0 needed, the device driving the bus at the time will pull the signal low. For a logic 1 state, the pull up ensures a high state on the signal and the device that's responding doesn't do anything to the signal.
I2C is multi-master, multi-slave bus, but is most often used with a single master device.
Thanks for this! I still have a LOT to learn about busses, pull up, pull down open drain, etc. I'll get it though, and no small thanks to the help of the community. :)
Main engines go for launch! I love your enthusiasm, determination, insight... and kitties too :)
BTW, I use OBS under Debian. This is the way!
Fedora (well, Gnome 3) has a decent built-in screen recorder, so that's what I use for work. OBS seems pretty full featured though, I must say.
Isn't it fun! Building a piece of control electronics and accompanying code is definitely in my top 10 most fun projects to do.
This is the first time I've done something like this, and it's been super rewarding!
@@TheDigitalMermaid It never gets old. I've been in embedded systems for decades now, wouldn't want to change it. So much more rewarding than pure software in my opinion (yes, been there, done that).
@@upnorthandpersonal It's lego for unsupervised grown ups, and I flipping LOVE lego! As for programming; Coming from a sysadmin background, most of what I've done has interacted with hardware at some level, but never as such a low level. This is really fun!
You're such an inspiration Madi, love your channel. Congrats on getting all that up and running!
Awe, thanks Nick! I've certainly had enough people inspire me in the past. ^_^
Congratulations! It spins 🥰 I love how you work thru each problem, although you might want to keep a checklist going forward. You have so many things to keep track of the video documentation I am sure helps but pen and paper always work. I am into rc's so motors and esc's are my nerd hobby. I hope to increase my knowledge to do what you are doing with larger motors. Thanks for all your hard work.🤩
I've got a "notes" file I work from, but I do plan to have checklists before I start travelling. The idea of having lists to debug problems while underway is something I think will be worth the effort. The coming videos will be going into proper embedded design for the helm controls, so that might be up your alley. Just need to finish climbing over the learning curve. :)
A few comments,1/ you are learning by your mistakes, 2/ when you think that you can't do something, just take the 'T' off the 'can't', 3/ success, means never giving up & failure is not an option.
You have an active, thoughful brain, it's power to solve problems is unlimited & you are using as it should be used.
Use your experience to continue with other projects in whatever field of interest you wish to explore, it keeps your brain logically active & resist the effects of aging in later life.
Thanks for all this. One note I'd make though; Failure IS always an option, and it's even inevitable. Find out what went wrong, and get back to it. That's what matters. :)
Excellent!! Congrats on your success, nothing is impossible when you employ logical analysis and dogged determination. Well done!
Being stubborn can be more useful than being smart. :P
@@TheDigitalMermaid LOL at the thumbnail with hair band removed and locks securely attached to motor shaft..naughty mermaid!
@@urielsmachine997 Ha! I was waiting for someone to notice that! ^_^
Congratulations Madi, been watching since you bought the boat and sailed her back to Canada. i'm looking forward in anticipation for the next instalment.
Awe, thanks Simon!
Well done.
Hi Madi, use a non-latching push button switch for the pre-charge resistors.
It's working !! Well done x
I've got the replacement momentary contact switch (same as the other battery bank) sitting in a bag upstairs, I'll be swapping that out when I make the first proto-dashboard. :)
I just found your channel and I'm always so happy to find someone doing interesting and complicated things with a specific end-goal in mind. Don't get me wrong .. building fun but ultimately useless projects to learn things is fine and taking things apart and modifying them just because they are there and it is fun is fine -- but when I find someone who is "I'm working with microcontrollers because boat" .. that's my people (just substitute "boat" with, like, "greenhouse").
Oh, I feel this. I've never been able to learn with artificial goals... I learn best (well, at all) when I have a specific goal in mind. I'd also never knock how others learn and have fun, but personally ya, I need a clear target. :)
No surprise you got it working! Not that I ever doubted it for a moment. I sure wish I was as knowledgeable as Andrew he would have been (maybe still would be) useful when I was teaching myself C#. You make it all look so simple lol. Good luck as always and cant wait for the next step - Tom
Having friends and community with disparate skills is amazing, I wish everyone had the same.
I love how excited you are. This is super cool stuff!
:D
I share your excitement over getting the motor to spin. Way to go!! Impressed with your continued troubleshooting skills. I knew you would do it. Thanks for sharing
Thanks, Lou! Thinking back; I originally went to school for a prosthetic and orthotics technical course (two year). I ended up not doing that as a job, but I think it ended up being one of the most important bits of education I got. No two people "break" the same way, so it's up to the tech to figure out how to help the patient with the tools and materials on hand. It was basically a two year "creative problem solving" course that has served me so, so well in life.
Congratulations! It’s the most awesome feeling building something while you’ve been learning and it finally works! I love your enthusiasm!! You made me laugh out loud a few times with your mess and adhd comments as I totally relate!
I'm really happy you enjoyed the video, Princess! ^_^
Beautiful. That feeling of finally getting it working in a new and unfamiliar field with a steep learning curve is just priceless. So happy for you! Thank you for sharing your journey. And about the negative ones just don't let it get to you. The nets it's full of angry people. Now you need to clean up and put a prop on that beauty. Cheers from Austria
Thanks! Totally unrelated, but I've been to Vienna a couple times now, Austria is lovely!
Congrats Maddy and community aon getting this working! Enjoy🎉
The community has helped sooooo much!
I feel your joy. 😊 Very well done.
Thanks, Keyem! It was so rewarding!
I enjoyed that a lot and your excitement at the end was palpable. However, the fact this works on the polished wooden floor Will probably not translate to boat life due to boats being horrible electrical environments. Some suggestions: firstly, don’t use both pullup and pull down switches as life is far too confusing. Settle on one, and most people settle for pull up. If it doesn’t make logical sense for the switch, you can always swap the sense in software. Secondly, 10K pull-ups are fine when the cable length is millimetres but when you have a few metres from the controller to the helm station, those wires will act as antennas and pick up all sorts of junk. 1K pull-ups recommended.
The same applies to the pot outputs, they will suffer from noise pick up to particularly near the centre of the pot. I’d recommend running 12V from the controller to the helm station, and having a local regulator near the pot. Also, a buffer to provide additional stiffness to the signal, Google for unity gain non-inverting offramp, and also for rail to rail jellybean opamp to build it with.
Finally, even when you do get on your boat and go sailing, we all know what boats are like: they break, and if you spend a lot of time repairing them. This all makes great videos.
The biggest reason I wanted to DIY the helm is to be able to fix things myself. I really didn't like how closed most of the systems that exist are that are out there. By DIY'ing this, I get to learn, but also, create an open system. I know I could never do a good enough job, but I'm already getting amazing help from others, and with the community support, I am confident we can make a really good controller (and other, future products).
As for the specifics; This is all just early stage prototyping. The end goal will be to have the controller board (a proper PCB) be at least conformally coated, if not potted entirely. I'll have spares so I can repair/replace anything under way as needed.
@@TheDigitalMermaid don’t get me wrong, you’re doing a fantastic job. However, having been around the block a few times over many decades making stuff work, I’m bringing a perspective that may not be obvious. Functionally, you’ve got it going on. But to get it reliable enough to be safe and useful, I’ve made some suggestions I believe will help.
Your cats are very calm. I had this project of restoring an old tonewheel Hammond organ two years ago and I was constantly interruped by the cat chewing on whatever wires to get my attention. Nooooo electric wires's not for cats ! So when i see all your stuff and wires bits on the floor, i'm like oh my got it's a playground for naughty cats
Haha, that's adorable! I let my kitties get away with a fair bit, but not anything with wires. I do that so that they know that's not to be played with. Seems to have worked, they completely ignore all the wiring and electrics.
14 years old, just watched all your last video, amazing, i never enjoyed any content this much! Keep it up!
This makes me happy to read :)
Madi as somebody who doesn't even understand some of the words you say never mind how you manage to learn this witchcraft, I have nothing but admiration for your ability to learn and be open about the mistakes you make while learning.
As for those small people who feel the need to try to pull you down... f'k them!
Just stay on the moral high ground with the support of those who believe in you 100%
All the best from Scotland
Thanks for the kind words, Scott. The biggest thing I hope to get across is that, even if something seems complex and unapproachable, it probably isn't... Trick is to just take all the learning one piece at a time, and then it's not too hard to learn. After some time, you look back and realize "holy shit, look how much I've learned!" and it's soooo satisfying! I want everyone to experience that. ^_^
@@TheDigitalMermaid Aye I get that, at 55 I typed my first few lines of python that did something trivial on my Pi 4 a few weeks ago and I had the same smile on my face then as I did doing basic on my ZX81 as a kid.
Not a stranger to Linux as I moved away from windows to Slackware around about the time XP came out (I gave up being a hardware tech too) but never had the time to learn code until now and that holy shit feeling is pretty unbeatable.
Keep encouraging folks Madi, you're good at it!
I've been waiting to see that motor spin, congrats!!
Saaaaame! Haha
congratulations. big moment.
Thanks, it was! :D
A big congratulations!!!
Thansk, Sam!!
At least the reverse alarm is working on the Kelly controller. It may be a little quiet out on the water, And it may be completely unnecessary regardless... But working is working 😎
This made me think of getting one of those truck reversing beepers... :p
Really love this project! It really satisfies that part of my brain that's all about doing new things that are out of your sphere of knowledge but you get to learn (and make mistakes) as you go. (Might just be my ADHD craving novel knowledge but hey it's fun!)
I also can't help but be mildly concerned over that one saying about curiosity and cats, would it be possible to put a temporary sheet of something insulating on top of the battery in case your fluffy friends ever try to hop on to the battery for some reason? Cat fur is probably a fairly good insulator so a stray tail swipe here or there is likely fine but paws directly on contacts would have terrifying consequences.
ADHD is no doubt a big part of it, and it's why I've never considered it a "disability". It's only a problem when neurodivergent people are demanded work in a neurotypical world. I think ADHD has always been important to human society; We're the builders and explorers of our "pack". Just another variation on the normal human condition, ya know? Someone needs to invent the toasters of society. ;)
I do cover the batteries with cardboard to keep prying kitties off them. After a couple of years, they've shown no interest so I've slacked off a little, which isn't good. The biggest concern would be if, somehow, the stood on a ground and stuck their nose onto the positive terminal, but even then the voltage is low enough it shouldn't hurt them.
Firstly, kudos to you for your development plan and execution. You may have already considered this, but I would use the full range of the 0 - 5V for your throttle, and use the F-N-R input for your direction as the input to the the motor controller.. You can still use your joystick control as an input to the Arduino, but get the arduino to do the analog translation to 0-5V, and let it interpret the input joystick deadband etc. It will be much easier to fault-find and diagnose, and you don't have to worry as much about random analog leakage causing your throttle to misbehave and go reverse direction. I did some work with controlling a CAT C12 via the throttle input, and they actually use a PWM-based throttle input rather than analog, and all of my comms was either canbus or 4-20mA to keep everything as robust as possible and avoid 'gremlins'. Just a suggestion, and I hope I have explained that well enough. eg. [ Joystick ] -> 0..2V = reverse, 3..5V = forward -> Arduino -> 0..5V throttle input, relay switch for forward and reverse inputs to motor controller.
I am currently working on converting the Arduino to proper STM32 (a much more substantial task than I expected, hence the lack of videos), and that swaps out the Arduino's 8-bit DACs for 12-bit DACs, so the resolution is going to go up a lot. So while I could add the logic of translating the input to control voltage and direction separately, I'm still going to have a lower input resolution than output (~1/2 the 10kOhm pot input compared to the full 0~5v output), so I'm not sure what I'd gain to justify to increased complex logic. Adding in the ring buffer to smooth out stray readings, am I missing a benefit? Cheers!
Excellent> I'll keep looking out for your updates. I guess having 2.5V as a neutral position, and 0V as full reverse scares me as I can see a chance that during reset or power-off where 0V will the default output which may confuse the motor controller. I can't give you any other benefits. @@TheDigitalMermaid
@@tracktronics The controller has an option so that if the motor turns on and the throttle isn't in neutral when you power it up, it alarms and won't start. I can add similar logic as well, and have been considering it already. I realized my ramp algorithm is too simple, and needs to account for delta over time, and not just change over time (as you saw at the end of this video when small changes took a long time to reflect). Cheers!
Amazing work!
I would consider keeping one of the 100/20's on the boat. I've recharged so many flat starter batteries using just one panel and one regulator. Just put the reg in a ziplock bag to keep any salt out. Also I agree with you, never get rid of tools especially if you only have one.
Having a spare MPPT is totally going to be a thing, and it'll be with the other spares in a water/humidity tight container. Whether it's the 100|20 will depends on the panels I end up with, but I'd be happy if I could use those, given they're a good price point.
For the contactor getting warm, a trick I used at work was to switch it ON at full nominal voltage* through a capacitor then immideatly drop to half nominal voltage. Heat cut to ¼ only.... We had so, so many* contactors at 24V (1000A switching capacity each) ran ridiculosly hot from just the holding coil at 24V. Each contactor was the size of a clenched small adult fist, contactors where weighing like 2-3 pounds each.
* = Technically I used a cap charged to way higher than nominal voltage but switching on 32 of these beasts at a time required some firm "persuasion", 40ft wire... There where some losses "in communication" to the furthest units 😂 Total installation had something like 110 pcs. Quite a respectable 'Clack!' noise when 32 slams on in sync.
Huh, so it takes pack voltage currently, you're suggesting switching it with something lower? Looking at the specs (Littlefuse DCNLM400NB48);
Pickup Voltage @ 25˚C (V DC MAX) - 33.6, Dropout Voltage @ 25˚C (V DC MIN) - 4
Does that mean the coil closes over 33.5v and holds closed until the voltage drops below 4v? If so, I wonder if I could drive the contactor from a 48v to 12v buck converter? I'm going to have one anyway. If so, how would you "charge" a cap to >34v in order to close the coil?
As long as you don't exceed the contactor's maximum rated voltage and it has reasonable ventilation it will be fine. The only real advantage of dropping the voltage is reduced power consumption, which in your application is probably not worth worrying about. The big disadvantages are the extra complexity and added failure points.
@italMermaid Yes exactly. Pickup voltage would be the guaranteed voltage to use for it to close in some shape or form...(Edit: I had confused expressions so I'm Incorrect: --and yes, the low holding voltage is the limit-- ) . "Dropout voltage" is the level where the contactor is guaranteed to have opened the circuit. Minimum holding voltage I think you need to find out by using your fine bench power supply. I'm not sure if they guarantee full specification usage with constantly operating at the extremes though.
For the 24VDC nominal voltage units I used, I did not experiment with holding voltages near limit(I think it was around 7V for our units) because we required extremely low losses over contactor, I did some tests at holding relay at half nominal and saw no difference in contact resistance, and by 12V holding voltage the heat was tolerable.
Edit: Below is basically completely over complicated for your case, as this is based from a 230VAC sources and MASSIVE currents.
I had a holding voltage psu and a small trickle charging psu for a capacitor (Kickstart capacitor). The negative terminal of trickle charge psu was on + terminal of holding voltage psu to achieve higher output voltage in total. This require trickle charger to be isolated from ground as to not interfere with Holding voltage PSU. A suitable resistor is added in series from trickle charger + to Kickstart cap + terminal. This resistor (IMHO) should be chosen to be no smaller in ohms nor power handling than surviving being constantly short circuited to Holding PSU - terminal, as this is constant worst case really with a stuck relay.
Wiring:
Holding psu +12V >> holding control relay switch >> through a forward connected beefy schottky diode >> to DC + in on massive relay
(i.e. all holding current/voltage goes through diode)
Trickle charger psu + >> series resistor >> "Kickstart" capacitor + >> "kickstart" control relay switch >> DC + in massive relay.
(Negative terminal of Kickstart cap is connected to Holding supply - terminal.
Kickstart cap need to withstand and hold full voltage, I cannot advice to "skimp" and connect cap the same way, as in parallell with trickle charger, might look attractive (technically you only need the little excess voltage to kickstart). The charging will probably be fine... However looking at it at the moment when activating kick, you will probably completely toast Holding voltage PSU as the return current to kickstart cap WILL pass right through holding PSU. Ok, caveats aside...
So, 1st close and hold Holding control relay, nothing happens really, Holding supply voltage is fed to contactor, not enough to move armature in contactor. Momentary close 2nd relay, *Clack* this voltage spike will move the contactor to closed.
Because of diode the voltage flies up on relay, but doesn't touch the holding PSU, which at this particular moment has an output current of 0 Amps because of the diode being reverse biased and slammed shut.
The kickstart cap will at this point probably be discharged to the voltage level of holding psu(- diode Vdrop). Let go of kickstart control relay and cap will slowly charge up to nominal voltage.
Your usage case, might be much easier to have a trickle charger also capable to provide full kickstart cap voltage since its battery powered. You'll still going to need a diode to protect holding psu. Thinking about it, due to a need to conserve power might want to experiment with variable psu to test if the resistance is kept at an acceptable level even if holding relay drive voltage is on the lower end. Your usage case will not require a monster cap so you could get away with alot of dc-dc converter solutions or build a voltage quadroupler by stacking diodes and capacitors and be fed by an multivibrator circuit. (Quadroupler, not the most elegant nor efficient solution tho, but you'll only need to charge cap once per occasion so..?)
@@Paxmax Hrm... All of this is/was, for you, principally to save heat from the contactor coil, right? I'm curious though, my understanding is that if you drop the voltage, the amps rise to feed the load, and amperage == heat. I think I understand the wiring, but I'm still struggling to understand how this reduces heat. In my particular case though, I'd be most interested in avoiding the lost power (even if it is a fairly small amount, wasted power is wasted power). So I wonder if the saved watt-hours (if any?) would be worth the added complexit, particularly given losses from the relay, resistor, etc...
@@TheDigitalMermaid I believe I should take a gander at that Littlefuse contactor, might be more to it than just a contactor..? It has maybe onboard electronics to measure current and act like a circuit breaker aswell... Just to be sure, b4 opening every rabbit hole to solutions I must check de spec's.
The devices I used in the 100's is just a relay on steroids, nothing more. Just like your hot contraption that goes *clunk* did my contactor run scorching hot.
The contactor armature is just an iron core who's job it is to fill a gap by being attracted to a bunch of copper wire that acts like a resistor once in steady-state. Because it's just a copper wire resistance, the power loss scales with voltage and current (+ somewhat influenced by temperature as most metals are) . The force acting on armature i comparatively weak when the iron core/armature is open, the gap is large. Once armature reaches end position (and there abouts) it becomes very easy to keep it there because the magnetic loop of the iron armature is now very short and effective. That is the primary reason it is wasteful to blast contactors with full strenght control current at 100% of time, it technically doesn't need all angry pixies provided.
When "my" contactors was operating at ¼ power the cans was still 25°C over ambient, aka near 50°C. You could sort of hold it, but after a few seconds the can was starting to win the thermal battle. Because of the mass, it took some time to reach maximum temps.
However, in your case, I have no idea what steady state temp will be, is it capped at 10-20°C over ambient? Maybe? Maybe not. There might be circuitry inside that does the driving voltage shifting job for you + other magic... If so, lowering the input voltage might do nothing for overall power because it's (potentially) regulated inside Littlefuse circuit breaker.
Littlefuse might have drawn a line in the sand for price to not include capacitive power enough to close contact with low voltage input. Big energy to overcome armature, big caps needed (or inductors + big mosfets)
In my case I really feared any increased resistance in the switched 1000A path, that's why I did not bother to chase ultimate efficiency but rather reliable distinct closing and holding.... However, having 32 pcs of searing 100°C hot contactors is not sane, and heat increases the resistivety of copper... I was chasing every last dang mOhm possible. Sure we thought about just add fans but no one appreciates that wheezing noise! The production hall is classified as a lab so it's clean, quite silent (well, there is the odd *CLUNK!* now and then 😂), having 32 fans..? No bueno.
If we are searching for a KISS solution. It might be a little clunky solution but effective:
You have one or more sets of a relay + cap, every set is connected in series by relays to multiply voltage.
You then have the cap relays other state (the active state), that connects all caps in parallell for charging... Then the last relay that connects cap chain to kickstart contactor. This solution uses 0 power when not in use. Its operated by one switch having 3 positions*, center is relaxed = all relays off. Holding or pushing switch to up or or down positions tho, these are both spring loaded momentary positions. Hold switch down = relays activate to charge every cap (thru a resistor) and all cap sections are set in parallell. Switch returns to neutral, caps holds the voltage fine for maybe a minute, cap relays relax thereby connects all caps in a chain multiplying voltage. Push up and a last single relay does the final link to blast the contactor. Once contactor is engaged, release switch, it drops to neutral, all cap relays are (already) relaxed, kickstart relay releases, capacitors are still in series but not in circuit. Now contactor is held by own holding voltage. Pro: Only one power source, simple AF but possibly a need for several relays. However this is not practically doable if you want 5V holding... But you need 34V to overcome contactor armature spring, just too many relays (expensive AF) and many caps to be truly called robust. It's still simple because it's the same parts just repeated x times, but having a 5/6 stage multiplier introduces many points of faliure...
Tho, the spare parts are just one of each so small bag can cover for large system if problem is caught early. Added layer is also the marine environment, my friend who owns a whale sized boat complains enlessly of electrical issues, so one needs to have a think before committing.
Daym... So much for staying out of 'em rabbit holes. Sorry 😩
* = Alternatively a 3 way: off, on, momentary on2. You could of course have two separate switches, "Charge"... "Kick"... but "instant suprise fireworks" if you at any time press both at once.
Yes! Big smile! Well done young lady!
Congratulations!!!
Thanks! :D
Awesome! Very exciting, as we could definitely see!! :)
Thanks John, it was a heck of a relief!
"Is it windows or the app?" Spoken like a true power user 😂 also ❤ 🐈
I did break-fix/MSP work waaaaay long ago. I got so fed up with windows, ugh. Haha
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉
Thanks! ^_^
Congratulations!!!! 😁👍
Thanks, Moietvoe!
Don't let the negative people put you off , yes you'll mess bits up , take l far longer than you should and probably waste a bit of money blowing stuff up/buying wrong things but you will have learned new skills and feel so good and proud of yourself when you finally achieve it plus you'll also get to explore places in you electric boat.
The thing is, as I see it, even factoring blown up stuff and stuff that ended up not being useful, it's probably still cheaper in the end, on a pure cost basis. Throw in the knowledge learned, and it's super easy to justify.
Seeing you work with your Solar PV and, in the next breath, talking about breakers leads me to note that breakers, unlike fuses, typically have significantly different and lower current ratings for DC current (i.e. a battery or solar panel) vs. AC - the output of an inverter or indeed grid power.
A fair point, and I always ensure that the breakers/fuses I get are rated for the voltages I'm using under DC. The solar box on the roof also has fuses, with the breakers down below being more for a convenient way to disconnect the panels. Even so, they're rated (and partly why I included the part numbers if anyone wanted to check). DC isn't to be triffled with! :)
Congratulations on the spinny spin!
Thanks, I can't wait to spin the spinny things with more spin control!
Eureka! She's done it. Well done.
Thanks, George! It's just the start, but it's a heck of a milestone
This is why I would gently encourage you to consider again a digital input to your helm control; with an absolute encoder all you need is a encoder count to throttle voltage map, and you could use that to either emulate forward/neutral/reverse switches or use the same lever to operate the encoder and switches for F/N/R. (Viz, the encoder at a position that maps to forward _and_ the forward discrete switch together.)
I'm happy to entertain the idea, but I don't see the overall benefit, seems like I'm trading one set of concerns for another. The encoder needs a circuit board and a set distance between the magnet and encoder. The potentiometer is sealed (IP65) and I can run three leads down to an enclosure with the main logic board. In either case, the f/n/r will work the same way, it's just a question of where the controller receives the position data from. Am I missing something?
@@TheDigitalMermaid They're usually a shaft on one end and the wires on the other, and built to varying degrees of waterproof. I'll find an example part for you. 🙂
@@TheDigitalMermaid P3 America has a candidate under SKU 433111.
Good for you.... Thx for sharing
Beautiful.
Hey just want to say i love your videos!!
I really appreciate you watching, so thanks!
A bid sad that i had to wait 2 weeks for the video, but i know some things yake a lot longer than you want. Your Joy when the motor turns makes up for it👍
It was frustrating not getting it out sooner. I have a full time job, so I have to do this work (and editing!) in my free time, so sometimes it's just how it works out. :)
@@TheDigitalMermaid i understand, and above that just as you said when you learn something new you dont know what you dont know.
Good job. I have a sticker label maker. I am thinking of putting a label on future power switches to devices to "remember to precharge" and just have a push button in series with the precharge resistor so that it only provides power while I am pushing it. My cheap gaming headset started crackling bad during a stream once when I was doing something that I was looking forward to making a video of. Annoying when that happens.
I'm thinking of a new, small project that reads the voltage down from the resistor, and when it hits a set value, triggers a relay to close the switch to engage the contactor (it's switches all the way down). The idea being that you simply couldn't engage the motor without the precharge resistor doing it's job.
@@TheDigitalMermaid Yeah, as soon as the resistor has no voltage across it, then the device's capacitors are charged to the supply voltage. I actually demonstrated that in the video I just uploaded. That is one of the ways I plan to automate stuff like relays as you say.
Hooray! Very exciting!
Holy yes, I was so glad when the motor spun...
Wow outstanding hats off to you love big hugs
Thanks!
wow...congratulations😊
Thanks, Nunzio!
Victron bluetooth strength: i am curently living onboard in a mooring field spaced over100 feet apart. My device list includes 3 other boats some of which must be over 300 feet away.
It's weird... I sometimes have trouble reading from my couch, like 10m away, and other times I can see devices on other boats, like you can. It seems to depend a lot on the materials between you and the devices, and how electrical noisy it is.
Congrats on slaying the dragon... only 99 more to go :)
Only 99? Woohoo!
I really like the voice over!!
AWESOME!! So back in the day of old GE forklift controls the control cards had pots to dial in the plugging, delay, ramp, speed... then with the EV100 systems you needed a hand set to modify all that. If you're able to make all those little variables have a pot input so you can 'tune' the controller on the fly, I would highly recommend that! OR, if you can do some sort of code with a DAC input for those variables... dang, you should build your own autopilot next! haha so awesome! congrats!
PyPilot is part of the longer term plans. ;)
Good job!
Thanks, Doug!
I love manic engineering, some of my best work was done in a manic state. This is what drives some of the most famous hackers, I've watched one hacker who was relieved when he got arrested because he said now I can sleep.
I can totally see folks with various forms of neurodivergence doing well in anything creative. Thankfully most aren't so manic that they find relief in arrest, but I'm also not surprised some folks like that exist. Hopefully they found a healthier balance when they got out.
Congratulations.
Thanks!! :D
Holy sound of spinning motor😍
If you could have felt it... When I went wide open, the floor started vibrating. The camera stabilized it though, haha
@@TheDigitalMermaid lately I'm building my own motors, not as powerful as yours, but it's a magic feeling when they start spinning, if you want I can send you some videos
@@germo35 Sure, or throw them up on youtube and share the link. My email is under the About tab.
I uploaded a video today, but I am not able to find your mail😅@@TheDigitalMermaid
You should give yourself a big pat on the back . Great job. Love your channel.
Awe, thanks Anthony!
Thankyou for this.
Thank you for watching!
congrats!
Thnaks, Nano!
Bravo 🎉 enjoy it ❤
Oh I did, haha
"Tea still warmer" Told you so 🎉
haha! Ya when I checked the camera and saw that was still the warmest thing, I realized there was nothing more needed from the FLIR.
Tip for later. When you taken the engine out and what else, put her back in the water and play around with sandbags representing the batteries and other heavy stuff to see the balance. Good progress. 😊
@@frejaresund3770 The raw cells of the batteries will effectively be my "sandbags". I'm not going to make the final battery cases until I know how she trims out one back in the water. :)
I2C spoken as I square c. It is a bus system which can run on different speeds. SCL SDA are the both data lines and you have ground and 5 volt. Sometimes you have 3,3 volt but that is not common. I use a lot, really a lot of Sensors via i2c on the ESP2866 and ESP32 or STM32. The sensors i use is for human use. So i have to be very careful all the time.
I realized after I misspoke with "eye two sea", I'm learning. ^_^ I'll be switching over to the STM32 before long, I think (and adding an ESP32 for some future wireless things).
I use a push-button on the pre-charge-resistor. Else I could make a false circuit that is energized....
Aye, that's what I was using. I remembered after that I used it for the precharge on the big bank, so I ordered a replacement.
Just a minor reminder - voltage fluctuations would not influence the magnetic sensor's reading ;)
Great sucsez! Congrats!!
Thanks, Ritchy!
For the audio I can suggest a phone-type earbud headset; run that to a phone, record the audio on that, clap to sync between devices, if there are issues you'll hear them.
I actually was using my phone for the voice-overs, give it can act like a mic for the Mac. I think what I really want is redundancy... I use claps and time codes to sync different video sources already, so syncing shouldn't be a problem. I've been meaning to add tracks on the ceiling for lights, and if I do that, I could easily add a boom mic that records internally, along with a shotgun mic on the camera. Well, it's a solvable problem, I just need to decide what option is best. :)
You would make life a lot easier on yourself if you switched to rosin core leaded solder. That lead free solder is higher temp and more difficult to use. Unless there is some reason to be using it, it's only lead free for industrial environmental reasons. Home users do not have that restriction.
About your mic, you can replace the end as its probably broken wires where it goes into the plug. You seem to have the skills to be able to pull it off.
In the monitor, you need to tic the box next to the values you want to see on the needles.
Thanks for the tip on the monitor, I was wondering why the needles weren't moving, though I admit I didn't pay it much mind. I do plan to give a go at repairing the mic, too. I mean, it's already unreliable, so nothing to lose. :)
Bravo!
:D
Hi.thank you for your educational content.I myself am a self taught mechatronics geek.Love your energetic personality.Do have a question though,Dont your legs hurt after sitting on the floor like that?..Keep up your good work and have fun doing it.😊
Oddly, no, I credit it to countless hours sitting on the floor playing with lego as a kid. :)
You can start you program in admin mode and see if it helps with crashes. You can also try compatibility mode if that didn't help.
I had to do a double take there, I don't think I've ever heard anyone from the other side of the pond say bollocks before :d
My grandma (well, step, but married my grandpa before I was born) was a warbride. She came over from London after the war with her RAF pilot husband, who passed in the 50s (and later married my grandpa). I spent a lot of time with her, and learned a lot from her, including a fondness for some britishisms. :)
project going well - all the technical stuff is now so beyond me - but i still can't wait for installation
with all the electronics, will you be able to drive your boat from an App, like James Bond ? - the funny is, the computer will still require you to tie up
sorry to hear about cat going blind, that's a shame, it was very upsetting when my pal lost a back leg, the German Pointer, and sadly had to be put to sleep with bowel cancer, it was spreading and getting to the lungs which could be smelt - such a horrible thing to decay from the inside out - but i'm sure the cat has a few lives left in him
Howdy, Patch! The long term plan is "yes". Later, I want to add sturdy auto-pilot, using a program like PyPilot (open source program, so it's hackable). With the throttle being controlled by software, and in time, the rudder, I should be able to put the helm into "remote" mode and control it from anything. I've got a bit of a silly idea to build a transmitter into an original Atari 2600 joystick, to keep with the 80s theme of the boat. I want to be able to sit at the bow and fully control the boat while dealing with the anchor. Super eventually, I'd like to even have it so that if I go overboard, a waterproof controller on my PFD would let me bring the boat back to me.
Poor Tatters... As you clearly know well, it's hard as hell trying to strike the balance between quality of life and quantity of life. I've had to make that call, and I dread needing to make it again, but it's what we agree to when we bring our pets into our lives. I'm sorry to hear about your pup, and I'm doing all I can to give Tatters as much quality time as I can. :)
@@TheDigitalMermaid the remote controller sounds pretty epic - you could with your insane ideas haha, take things further - the chances of you falling over board (god forbid) are slim, and keeping a controller in hand might not always work, unless it is strapped to you - you could possibly wear a pendant that when activated, the boat simply homes in on it, doing, i don't know how, but someone somewhere will - hey the future of boating
must admit, i sit here behind a computer and dream up many things to make life easier using computer systems - just wish i had the technical skills to do anything like it
Design a nice PCB (with easyEDA software for exemple) and print them with cheap spots such PCBaway/JLCPCB.... Great work btw :).... It's a super adventure
So funny enough, I was JUST contacted by one of those PCB companies for a sponsorship. I've not replied yet, still very unsure about partnerships/sponsorships, but the plan has always been to make a PCB and share the design with the community. So it might be something to consider... Especially if I could set something up where folks who wanted the same boards I'm working on could get them at a discount.
@@TheDigitalMermaid Yes can be interesting ... Fyi, such naked pcb boards are rather cheap to print. From I saw o your design, should be about 10-15$ for 5 cards. You can even assemble fully with cms or crossing elements. But if you allow me somthing, instead of an arduino, i would select more a ESP32 (C6) for your project... You would enjoy WiFi/BT connexion with
@@sebydocky5080 Already have an STM32 and an ESP32 dev boards. Porting will be happening sooner than later, the arduino was just a lower barrier to entry at first. In time, when the boards are more flushed out and closer to what I'll install on the boat, I was thinking of printing a bunch off, and selling them as a sort of weird merch option. :)
Think about maybe using another throttle position sensing technology than potentiometers. They are fine for your testing but mounted in the cockpit they may be prone to malfunction due to vibration salt spray, etc. Maybe you can find some special high reliability sealed pots though.
I've had a lot of recommendations to look at hall effect, but it strikes me as trading one problem for another. The softpot is IP65 rated, and super simple, with just wires to run from the helm to the controller, and the controller can be somewhere protected from weather. I'm planning to add a second pot with a selector switch so I can change on the fly which one is used.
With the hall effect, there's a circuit board for the encoder, putting the board itself in a more vulnerable place. With the pot I've got, the acrylic ball is pressed down with a spring, helping deal with shock and vibration.
😃😃😃😃😃👍👍👍👍 because it worked you know what you are doing
That's a big part of why I do this; I want to be able to fix anything on the boat. :D
i have some of them fancy orange tools your talking about that i have never really used lol
ill send them to ya if you would like
Oh wow, really?! That's really kind! Send me an email if you'd like (under the About tab). :D
regarding the renogy...you are going to have 12 v "stuff" on the boat, so you need at least 1 12v battery, how are you going to charge it? do you have a Victron version of the same thing, . I thought you were planning to go from 48v through the dc-dc to the 12v ?
I've got the Victron Phoenix IP43 charger, and a Victron Multiplus 2000 compact 12v inverter/charger. So I can't imagine I'll have need for a DC/DC charger per-se, but even so, so reluctant to sell it. heh.
As a point of interest, Plasti-dip comes in orange and is a completely acceptable way or insulating your tools... Just give them 2 or 3 coats and it should be fine.
That's an interesting idea.
yea!
^_^