I helped my father to fit out my grandfather’s apartment with Vinyl plank flooring in the main living space and Vinyl tiles in the kitchen. The original floor was carpet over concrete. It was misery scraping that padding off of the floor. But once complete, we couldn’t have been happier. We bought the thick, premium stuff with the thickest joints and exterior membrane as well as built in underlayment. That stuff was sooooooo heavy. It made tile seem light. Even after ten years of hard use, including one tenant having a dog (German Shepherd) the stuff was almost like new. I hit the few deep scratches with a heat gun to flatten out the turned up edges of the dogs claw marks and picked out the few metal shards that embedded themselves into the floor. Presto! One would need to run their hand along the floor to find the blemishes. It sounds like you bought poor planks, or had a floor issue, installed the flooring poorly. Not every flooring is perfect, but I would take Vinyl plank over MDF laminate any day.
@@macmurfy2jka I agree that it is great stuff. Mine wasn't even that premium but home depot's sale vinyl planking that overlapped. The exterior is wearing off. Someday when I move out and begin to rent the place, I will have to paint over the floor or put in new planking. Functionally it is still in great condition.
@@ryans413 Right. Engineered wood is not at all what this video is about. Luxury vinyl plank is chosen specifically because it _isnt_ wood, with its attendant issues with traction, moisture and finish
Whenever furniture breaks a joint, it is a good bet that the floor was not properly prepped before installation. The floor has to be dead flat and smooth before installation. Secondly, a better quality plank is HEAVY and will resist movement when it is properly joined.
This is key. If there is any flex or unevenness in your floor you have to fix that first, either by tightening things up, or adding a sub floor like drycore
The thinner options of LVPs almost feel like they should be categorized as a different product if you compare them to the ones that are above 5mm. The joints look so much different due to the fact that the manufacturers have more thickness to design a more rigid joint.
@@xdxdsheep To be frank, if you PROPERLY install this stuff the thickness shouldn't matter. The joints don't NEED to be strong, since there shouldn't be ANY deflection of the floor. If you do it means your sub floor is no good, and you need to fix that before you put this stuff down.
I needed to redo my wood floors. They were an absolute mess. I was about ready to install LVP, but I hated the idea of covering my hardwood because I have REAL SOLID 3/4 inch HICKORY floors. I finally got a reasonable quote for refinishing, and decided give refinishing a try. It was a hassle to be out of the house for a week, but the result was incredible. After refinishing, they look just like new. They are thick enough that they can be sanded and refinished many more times. I think a lot of the problems people have with flooring can be traced to the subfloor. If your house has settled, or the floors are uneven with poor support, you're going to have problems with any layer you put on top. But nobody budgets to repair and flatten their subfloor, they just throw a new top layer on and hope to cover up any problems underneath.
All about the subfloor. Best decision. Keeping your hardwood floors. They're timeless and take a beating. HGTV and similar remodeling channels have done a major deserves to quality.
You’re absolutely right. They cover up the bad subfloor and then they magically expect the problems to not cascade through. You need a good foundation for anything good to be built over top, including a nice floor.
You absolutely made the right choice. Hands down, no contest. Hardwood floors can easily last 100 years, look great and, in most cases, can be repaired when disaster strikes.
I have bamboo upstairs - it is higher quality than the Home Depot stuff I used downstairs which is hmm... let's just say I can't speak highly of it!A Anyway I also have had good luck with the bamboo flooring I bought.
I've seen bamboo flooring in both public community buildings and private homes, and those floors all show wear very noticeably, with much scuffing and loss of coloring. I don't know if it can be sanded and refinished. Both public buildings replaced the bamboo flooring; one with wood, the other with quality linoleum.
I've had it in my hallway and guest bathroom for 5 years. I got it from Lowe's. Zero issues with it. No buckling. No peeling. No concerns. Sometimes, it's the brand and composition that are the problem. Also, seems like the installation might also be part of the problem. Also, yours looks a lot thinner than the one we bought.
If you take care of it it'll probably last 10 years. Partially dependent on climate, of course. If you're in California in an area without much change in the weather it'll probably do fine. If youre on the east coast well... maybe forget about it.
I came here looking for this comment. The spot under the table leg looked like the floor was not flat and had a dip in that area. Don't blame the product when it is installed incorrectly. I'd be willing to bet the subfloor has 3/8" or greater deviations in flatness. Did it meet this requirement? Flat: All wood and concrete subfloors must be flat within 1/8” over a 6' span, or 3/16” over a 10' span.
@belindacarr this is 100% your issue. I don’t think it’s fair to grab your personal anecdotal experience and throw the entire product line in the trash. This is a DIY flooring install gone wrong due to mis-prepped subfloor. If you installed tile or even hardwood I’d be surprised if you didn’t have additional challenges
Buy once, cry once: 3/4 hardwood floor. Sand (or just buff) & refinish once every 15-20 years. Otherwise it’s barely any more maintenance than LVP. Expensive? Yes. But it’s 100+ years of beauty and character.
The problem is that the people who are buying the materials for the house don't care about durability anymore. No one's expecting to live in the house for more than a few years if they're even going to live in it, a decent fraction of the people buying home finishes these days are landlords who are just looking to minimize the dollar amount and flippers who are basically the same.
Year right. I have 125 year old hardwood floors and they suck. Suck bad. There is to much flex, movement, the gaps are huge as shit. I spent a lot of money to restore them only to end up with poly stained single boards with all of the damn gap filler cracking and coming out. I have boards that have massive gaps in them. Damaged boards and all kinds of problems. Sure the floor I am on right now looked like a million dollars when we finished it the first day and slowly go worse as time went. Problem is over time nails lossen, boards swell, boards shrink. I would never recoment anyone to refinish a floor if they have any gaps at all. Unless your wood floor was laid on top of a osb Tongue and Groove floor with 100% glued 1" plywood flooring and then each hard wood board was contact cement and screwed down. The boards were kiln dried several times over. Or you do the sub floor and then 3/4 Tongue and Groove floating floor. This way you could wedge it as it no longer fits. Yet I doubt that will work. Concrete finished floors are low cost and if you spend the money you can have it look like wood too!
@@kameljoe21 Your points are well-taken. I had a home for 20 years that, when I bought it, its floors were 95 years old (and, for the math-impaired, 115 years old when I left). They were Wisconsin maple and my house was in Minnesota. There was no buckling, but I've seen similarly-aged homes in Kansas City with similar floors suffer terrible buckling. I did have gaps between the wood planks in two bedrooms that, at some point, suffered water damage. And, you make a great point about sub floors. In one room, I had my hardwood floor removed, leveled the joists and glued & screwed ¾" OSB subfloor, then re-installed, sanded and finished. Those floors were SILENT. It was the forged nails in the 1 by * diagonal pine subfloor affixed to uneven joists that were the cause of the squeaking. My counter to your valid points is, what should you buy today? Gluing and screwing ¾ inch OSB subfloor is nearly ubiquitous these days. Indoor humidity/temperature is better controlled now. Perhaps Texas (and other places where the temperature and/or humidity gets very high) isn't the best place for hardwood floors. But I think hardwood floors installed on a subfloor made of ¾" plywood or OSB could last longer and stay in better condition than floors installed 100 years ago.
I think the other problem is the WIDE difference in quality between cheaper LVP and higher grade. I've been very happy with the stuff I bought 2 years ago and its held up incredibly well. My mother went with a cheaper product and absolutely regrets it with the same problems you describe. (That said its much easier to justify spending more when your whole house is only 800 sq ft vs her much larger home.) I also had many problems in the rental I lived in previously where the flooring warps and cracks like crazy when exposed to the florida sun over months. I've generally found that the skinnier (side to side not thickness) the "plank," the better it holds up but that could just be because the skinnier ones are generally more expensive per sq ft.
Definitely and her video seems to account for it yet it's also kinda skirted. But also, to your example: two years is not a metric of longevity at all.
@@AlexPotvin Generally I would agree, but the flooring in the rental I was was falling apart after 2 years in several areas, and my mothers was showing wear already whereas even where I have my computer chair where I'm at a lot looks brand new still with this stuff. Granted, its a sample size of 1, but Ive been fairly impressed.
@@AlexPotvinI’ve had LVP for 12 years (I don’t think they even called it LVP when we bought it). They have held up extremely well to a house with dogs running all over it all the time. Wood would have actually been cheaper to install, but would have been heavily scratched and damaged by the dogs quickly.
As a General Contractor who has to deal with customers years down the road I no longer install LVP. In every price category there is a superior choice in laminate or engineered. Even if all of them haven't failed, the higher rate of failure is enough for me to stay away.
@@im2geek4u the high failure rate is due to frequent misapplication. No laminate or engineered compares on slab-on-grade or on basement slabs when moisture may be present.
Laminate is total garbage, can't believe you'd even suggest such a thing. Anything with an MDF substrate is going to get swollen seams and water damage. No way to avoid it. We fell into the laminate trap with a couple of our rental properties, and we had to replace it all within a couple of years. Absolute scam product. Wood or engineered wood is okay, but LVP is 100% waterproof.
@@superwag634 Not all LVP is the same. Some is garbage. Some isn't. Also, judging by the video, it looked like the subfloor was screwed up in the woman's video. Mine was screwed up too, but, it still worked good.
@@idmhead0160How can I know which will be the best investment. I certainly want the flooring to last longest in good condition. I understand the importance of a good subfloor, flatness and leveling. But even taking the best precautions of premium investment in the subfloor, what have I, only an average homeowner, to avail myself to judge the quality of the lasting value of a prospective product? Price and testimonials?? Serious question here.
"Luxury" is one of the most overused words today. Here in Chicago I laugh to myself every time I see a mundane new home or apartment building described by the realtor's sign as "Luxury". BTW. Today I am about to buy some LVF. We are selling an apartment we own and the previous tenant destroyed the floors (and well the walls, etc). The flooring person said the wood floor had been sanded so many times in the past he could not fix the damage since he would end up exposing the substrate. He suggested LVF. Unfortunately, for purely economic reasons we will have this installed. In our own living space that we gut-renovated a few years ago we installed oak hardwood floors.
or "exclusive" new residential development. I think it would be highly influential on younger folks though who have not yet acquired the wisdom of experience.
Have a look at Tarkett Vericore at Menards. I'm in the Chicago area and installed it in 2019 in a rental. It is a good product. I have seen other vinyl plank flooring that is garbage. IMHO, the person in the video is making too broad of a statement.
Overall excellent video Belinda but but painting a whole class of a product with a broad brush is a mistake. I installed a more expensive, thicker, higher quality LVP in my home 10 years ago and still looks brand new. Mine had an attached pad.
Yeah why wasnt it even mentioned as an alternative in this video lol. The stuff is insanely durable and sustainable while existing at a similar price range. Feels like a missed opportunity
We had rigid core vinyl plank flooring (“Lifeproof” brand) installed throughout the majority of our house in 2018. It’s been great, and it still looks really good. We’ve only had a few issues with how the transition strips were installed, but that’s hardly the fault of the manufacturer.
@@blueseas43 She also has a subfloor problem. Her joints broke when weight was applied. That is because the weight made the plank move downward, and the joint failed when trying to drag the adjacent plank with it. That downward motion isn't supposed to be available. I've got tongue and groove pine flooring, original to the home, and it shows the exact same problem, for the same reason: lack of support beneath it.
We installed LVP throughout our entire basement in ~2019, and have had no problems at all. It is also our living room, so there is heavy furniture, a treadmill, etc laying on it and being moved around. I don't recall the thickness, but it had a thin cork underlayment attached. We also put a lot of work into making the slab very level (even renting a cement grinder floor buffer machine). Due to the significant amount of prep work, there is no give in the flooring for it to wear on the joints over time. We have been, and continue to be, very happy with the install. DIY saves on the labor cost (if you pay attention and do the details right), so springing for a higher quality product is a no-brainer.
@@SnakeHandler-g7u Have a look at Tarkett Vericore at Menards. I have no affiliation with the company, but, installed it in the entire floor in two houses. One was in 2019 and another last year. It's good stuff and I've yet to notice a problem. What I like about it is that it locks together very well. My dad had a different brand that cost the same in another house and it was garbage.
@@GazeboPelt Prepping the slab makes all the difference. Hell the guys that installed my flooring didn't even sweep and vacuum the slab properly so there are small rocks stuck under the floor. Its a rental so not much I can do about it.
Watching this keenly; I just installed some "loose lay" LVT because of the constraints that made other materials tough/muuuch more expensive to install well. The subfloor is too uneven and flexy for laminate or LVP. There is also radiant heating in the subfloor to make things even more complicated. I put down a stip of glue in my center line and around the perimeter, and prepped the subfloor by scraping and vacuuming thoroughly every time a tile or glue was about to be placed. Larger size of tiles and thicker wear layer hopefully will mean my LVT won't be susceptible at least to some of the issues you mention. Thanks again for your interesting, well-prepared content, Belinda!
We had oak hardwood flooring installed in the entire house. Very expensive but zero problems. We have had water stains. We can just sand and refinish the floors and they look like new. These floors will last forever.
@@superwag634"Hardwood" is solid flooring, not veneer. I'm not sure where you're from, but oak, hickory, maple, walnut, cherry, whatever, is sustainably harvested and produced from timber lots managed by a proper Forester. Land owners typically have generations invested in making sure their holding continues to produce quality hardwood every year. I wouldn't even consider it "very expensive" if you look at the lasting quality of a job well done. It will still be fine long after you're gone! (unless you live in a cardboard box subdivision w/ a HOA)
@@jimurrata6785 yeah, ok, thats a quality product. Im in Australia, and here they have started selling "hardwood" flooring from cheap philippine meranti or mahogany glued to some form of backing, possibly even cement fibre sheeting. Its just another way to make australian housing more shit, and the most expensive in the world.
@@superwag634 What you describe would be called "engineered hardwood flooring" here in the US. I'm surprised housing is so expensive in Aus? Seems like you have plenty of land and resources???
I’ve been doing renovation work for about 22 years, and I’ve never seen that she’s talking about it. This is all on her, she bought a cheap product or did not front for floor.
So? I've seen these same issues dozens of times, especially in refloored mobile homes. Come to think of it, I can't say I've seen a single instance of this vinyl flooring that didn't have at least 1 spot that was damaged/failing in some way. Call it installer error all ya like, if a product needs extremely specific conditions and installation methods, it's not a good product.
@@custos3249 I live in the country working on 7 acres and living in a mobile home. My work boots don't come off when I go indoors because I'm always in a hurry. I installed LVP 2 1/2 years ago and they still look brand new even coming in with mud on my boots to grab something and right back out. There's not a single spot that has given me any fault. I went with a 12mil. wear layer with foam backing and did very little surface prep other than removing carpet staples and a good vacuuming. I used Style Selections brand from Lowes. My 2 pups at the time peeing on them often didn't harm anything but my patience. Luckily they're now house trained.
@@custos3249 I put padded foam underlayment under all my flooring. Think she only used roll plastic. She is wrong about using just plastic film as it doesn't compensate for uneven subfloor.
Here in Germany I’ve seen several homes with vinyl flooring. We moved into an apartment, where the landlord had vinyl flooring done to save money. It’s now 3 years old and not lightly used. We don’t have a single issue of the ones you show, neither do friends apartments. I’m not a floor guy but here the edges of the panels look like they’re glued together with a Color matching product. Maybe ask a company that offers vinyl flooring as a service, for input.
it's interesting that you've had such a bad experience. Anecdotally, our home was built in 2019-2020 and came with vinyl wood flooring on our bottom level of the house (the most high traffic by far) and it's been absolutely nothing but smooth sailing. There's one spot that's had a small creak since new, but it gets tons of wet boots and mopping, stuff dropped on it, and it's been flawless.
For the first time I disagree with your review. We hired someone to install Kardean flooring, it has been in for around 15 years. Yes, the shrinkage is an issue and I have to move planks in spring and autumn. But compared to carpet, cork flooring, tiles and polished timber, it has been the best flooring ever. I do accept the floor needs to leveled using a self leveling compound that doubled the cost, but that would also be true for large format tiles. We did not use the click together planks, they were square edge and still make me feel good. Please keep up the good work, love your reviews.
I sold Karndean at my previous job. People loved it, & we never had any complaints about it. A very large selection of options. Pro tip, the commercial grade is actually cheaper than the residential grade, because they make so much of it, but your selection of colors is more limited.
LVP is absolutely fantastic if you get a good one. 3 years later in our office it's still like new : foot traffic, daily wet cleaning, office chairs, furniture dragging - it handles all. And it's even not installed with a "permanent" glue, just the one that allows to remove a plank in case you need to. Half of the office guests mistake it for real wood.
Also, when using radiant heating, vinyl flooring can lead to the release of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and other potentially harmful substances.
don't most flooring options come with a top protective polymer layer or get a layer of protective polymer coating added after sanding like hardwoods, that would also emit VOCs?
I used Forbo Marmoleum from Green Building Supply. It’s lock and click, so installation was easy. It is supposed to be a more natural alternative to linoleum (linseed oil, wood flour, resin, limestone and jute). Had it in kitchen for over 6 months, has been great. Easy to clean. I have hard wood floors in other parts of home that are covered in old linoleum. If refinishing them is too challenging, I plan on putting down more marmoleum. Highly recommend.
Hi Belinda! I always enjoy your videos. I hope I do not experience the issues you have with LVP. I waited 20 years to remodel my kitchen and had the ugliest vinyl flooring in America replaced with a gorgeous LVP. I had my Contractor perform the installation . So far, all is okay. 🤞 Fingers crossed. Thanks - Don
If this was a different TH-cam channel, I might have some sympathy. She smart, she knows building material, she’s college educated and tech savvy, plus she clearly knows how to do research. That product was only allowed to move up and down, because the substrate was not in tolerance or it was just such a cheap product! I’m guessing she was being extremely cheap and that’s why she bought a product that I have never seen do that! . I’m gonna blame her 100%!
Cause you bought the cheap one. Buy the good vinyl and it's the best flooring product that will go decades with no issues and very easy in install. You can even buy the commercial grade ones, thick ones.
Can you get details please? Because I have never seen this in my life, so I’m so skeptical. However, I do want to avoid this in the future since I do renovation work.
I had about 1000sf of LVT installed at my preschool in 2019. It is has been perfect! It has needed no maintenance so far, unlike the VCT it replaced, and I cannot see any wear despite 60+ kids running around on it all day. We used a commercial grade version and it was professionally installed on a concrete slab floor. It was a glue down installation. Not cheap! But I have no regrets. It is very good to know that I should not consider a cheaper, floating floor version of "LVT" for any work at my house! I'll stick to tile and wet-area rated engineered wood plank than you very much (and continue to DIY to save some $$.)
I'm pretty surprised by this, since I have LVP flooring and I have never had any of the issues you mentioned... I don't know if it's related to climate, since I'm in New England, but I have had no issues at all so far and I'm not exactly careful with the flooring either (although it's only been two years). I used the Home Depot (lifeproof I think they call it) brand.
I've seen some very high quality ones that turned out amazing, but I've lived on apartments with low quality ones and OMG they are awful (like Belinda showed). My opinion? You get what you pay with these...
Been using LVP 12 mil. layer in Arkansas for 2 1/2 years in a mobile home with 2 pups that used to pee all over it and it still looks brand new. I used Lowe's "Style Selections" brand. I'm installing it in our master bathroom this weekend.
as a installer what your video showed is semi rigid or the cheapest choice often under 2.00 a sq. ft., rigid style flooring which runs about 3.50 a sq. Ft .and doesn't have any of the problems you show, you went cheap and paid the price and are now complaining
My wife and I have been watching your videos for years and really enjoy them not because we're really into building materials, but because it's a relief to hear someone talk about something in an informed and thoughtful way. We've definitely learned a lot of interesting and useful things, though, so we are fans. But I am puzzled by your take on LVP. Since the flooring alternatives are expensive and difficult we used LVP in our master bathroom (about ten years ago) and in our kitchen (three years ago). I installed it carefully and fussed over getting it right, but once down it has performed excellently for us. Both rooms get daily traffic, four of us use the kitchen and you have to pass through the kitchen to enter or leave the back half of the house. It looks like new everywhere except for one 1/4" dent in the kitchen where somebody dropped something. You have to look for the dent to see it. Otherwise it looks great, it's comfortable, quiet, and easy to clean. I'm about to put it in the second bathroom. Perhaps it's because we have a slab foundation (I am installing it over the glued down vinyl that was installed when the house was build 37 years ago). The concrete means the substrate is level and unmoving. Or perhaps you got a bad batch of flooring. Otherwise I can't explain the difference between the horror we just saw in your video vs. the floors we love in our kitchen and bathroom. Normally I would follow your advice, but, again, the alternatives are all much worse and LVP is, for me, a wonderful solution. I know it will only last ten years and then need to be redone, but redoing it is neither expensive nor difficult. I am sorry that it's all going to end up in the landfill until the sun turns into a red giant, but ceramic tile, hardwood, and MDF are completely out of the question. Maybe in ten years there will be something better, and we'll probably hear about it from you, but in the mean time I would readily recommend LVP to anyone, though I would recommend they look at reviews and get the best materials. There is no question that the word "Luxury" used here is just stupid. I guess they were trying to differentiate the product from cheap vinyl tiles, but every time say "luxury vinyl" out loud I feel stupid.
I see lots of what happened to you. I used the thick and expensive stuff at my parent home, and have had zero issues in 5 years and frankly it still looks good
Interesting experience. I used Bella Engineered Hardwood with the plywood core in my basement 8 years ago. Most of the floor gets light use except the family room. In winter we spend a lot of time there with 3 dogs. It looks really good. We had it glued to the concrete and it has not moved. The biggest problem was the pad we removed had been glued down. I had to crawl across 1300 square feet with an angle grinder to get the floor prepped.
I've used it in my kitchen(installed 5 years ago) and in my RV(installed 7 years ago) and haven't had any issues so far. I will add that we had thinner interlocking vinyl boards that didn't have a separate foam or laminate layer adhered to them. The "grain" is stamped into the board and the wooden texture is printed on. We're using the traffic master brand flooring from homedepot. They, like all of the other brands also claim to be water proof, resistant to damage and scratches, etc etc. We've found it to be pretty durable and haven't had any issues with denting either, buckling or cracking. I'll try and find the exact product we used. That said, I wholeheartedly agree that it is not a luxury product. It is a "good enough" product that gives a nice at-a-glance visual facelift to homes with older flooring.
I've used both southern yellow pine boards (in my farmhouse, which got scratched but were beautifully golden, and required ongoing attention which I was fine with because the wood was so lovely) and engineered hickory in a floating installation, which has held up extremely well because of its hardness, doesn't show scratches much, and is gorgeous. The engineered aspect meant that after a water leak in one area caused some boards to bow up, that was temporary and the boards settled back down on their own after drying out. The engineered hardwood is far less maintenance, just keeping clean and polished with Bona brand products every so often, as simple as mopping.
I used the HomeDepot thick rigid version with a real wood veneer $3.50/sqft (2021) across a very very large space and aside from a single seam it has mostly been fantastic. It will scratch a little easier because its actual wood on top, but that wood is completely sealed from water and you get a very nice patina with sun exposure. But, I dunno how many years that will last., very optimistic currently. Correct installation is VERY important. I think the bigger issue here is our houses just have too much unused floor space vs having more compact spaces with higher quality materials! We blow stupid amounts of money on "space" instead of investing in living areas. Visit Europe sometime, saw some very nice homes in Germany that were very compact/vertical.
The absolute best flooring I've found is woven fiberglass (Tarkett Fiberfloor is the brand we used, but there are others.) It's kind of like a super-thick linoleum that doesn't curl and doesn't require gluing. It's thickness makes it more durable than linoleum, as well as more forgiving for non-level subfloors. Easiest floor install I've ever done.
Good tip, but Tarkett Fiberfloor is sheet vinyl with a backing, not linoleum. In some areas sheet vinyl flooring is called "linoleum", but vinyl and linoleum are very different materials.
@@btd6vids They have the interlock system, so if you need to replace an individual plank, you would have to uninstall everything up to it, then lay it all back down.
2 1/2 years running in and out of the house with my muddy boots on and it still looks brand new. I'm working on 7 acres so I run in and out all the time and so do my 2 dogs that used to pee all over the floor when they were pups. Perfect floors to this day.
This is just a personal opinion, no technical knowledge behind that! There are a lot of factors lead to material / installation failure! I installed Armstrong grouted LVT 7 years ago & hardly you can tell it is not a stone flooring.
No problems with ours over many years. Pre-pandemic. Really needed to replace old floors. LVT was NOT the cheapest and builders stood behind it. Professional installation. They ground the whole floor with professional equipment. I think you got a cheap version. We could not afford wood flooring which would be the next cost up. Gets wet a lot and our floor is known for moisture. But thanks for the video. I would keep it in mind to see that products are better.
I put down hardwood click panels, just about the cheapest kind, 25€/m² at the time. There's only 2.5mm of beech, on 7.5mm of softwood (pine, by the looks of it). Unlikely to be sufficient for a proper resurfacing. At that price level the tolerances are sloppy. There's height differences between the panels (.25mm is one of the worse ones, enough to be visible from a standing position and noticable while barefoot). It feels like wood underfoot. It's somewhat vulnerable to water and quite vulnerable to oil, which will soak right into the short edges and never come out. There are fine scratches under furniture feet, but no dents. It's darkened considerably where the UV reaches. When something hard and dense drops on it, it'll leave a mark. Very visible, but smooth repairs can be performed with a drill, dowel, glue, flush trim saw and chisel. At that price, I'm quite happy with it.
I’ve had great success with our lvp installed. We have dogs and kids and has held up exceptionally well for four years of hard use. We did research and purchased what we felt was a higher quality product.
I'm an architect and had LVT installed in my traditional 1911 home over 14 years ago. We had a new subfloor put down over the old badly damaged original strip oak flooring (after the nasty carpets were taken up!). I couldn't be happier with the product from Karndean. Ours has a 20 mil wear layer and has stood up to dogs, cats, and two (now teenage) boys very well; it still looks great. We had nice decorative edging details done to add flair to the design. We used a highly qualified installer with a glue down process. The floor is easy to clean, durable, flexible (as some of the floor has settled unevenly without causing issues with the LVT), and looks great. Almost everyone who sees it thinks that it's natural wood. We liked it so much that we ended up using a similar marble tile look product from Karndean for out two bathroom renovations and are very happy with that as well; we like the waterproof aspect of the LVT in the bathrooms, of course. I think the wear surface and quality installation are absolutely key to a successful use of LVT products and, based on my own experience, I recommend them for residential applications (commercial is another story).
You don’t have enough real world experience with this product to be making videos like this. Your sample size is 1 and there could have been a bunch of reasons for this kinda failure. Chiefly buying the cheapest garbage flooring.
Steller has a compelling hardwood flooring system that installs about as easily as LVP. The downside is their price point, which is a bit higher than typical hardwood, but the benefits of their products seem to justify the expense. We're planning to purchase that for installing in one of the rooms in our renovation.
I bought a house that had lvp 3,5 years ago here in Florida and it is as good as new. No problems whatsoever. We were happy to find a house with all hard flooring, no carpet!
I agree with your environmental concerns, but I've seen this stuff hold up for years in high-use areas with multiple people and numerous pets. The stuff I've walked on is actually extremely durable.
As a person with a lot of experience with luxury vinyl plank flooring, I can tell from your video that the problems you experienced were largely due to installer error. You clearly had subfloor problems that placed unacceptable pressure on the joints. Typically you cannot have more than 1/4" variation per 10 ft or else you will have these kinds of problems. This is all explained in the installation instructions for all of these products. In other words, yes, you need a very smooth floor, and most do-it-yourselfers are too lazy or to ill-informed to bother with proper preparation. Also, I can tell from your video that you used some of the cheapest lvp flooring available. I can tell from the low quality visual design, and the fact that the visual design does not match the texture of the product, which is called embossed in register. You probably paid less than $2 per square foot for that garbage. Lvp is like most building products. You get what you pay for. There is really low quality stuff, and there is really high quality stuff. The thing is, you do not have to pay a lot for good lvp, you just can't get the cheapest garbage out there and expect it to be good. You really only have to pay $4 or $5 per square foot to get some really nice stuff, and of course there is stuff even more expensive than that that is even better. But you do not have to pay a lot. You just can't get the cheapest garbage and expect it to be good. And when you said that this product expanded more than MDF laminate, well, you are either very confused, or you are mistaken, and that is the nicest way I can say it, because I do not want to call you a liar with a vendetta. A lot of times people have a bad experience with a product and they are hoping that they can bully the manufacturer into giving them free replacement when it was their installation that caused the problems, so they make these videos and tell everybody what a horrible product this is, and you are taking it one step further and bashing an entire industry, not just one company's products. It is ridiculous. So many people have had excellent results with these kinds of products. You just need to apply a little bit of care so that the installation is done properly. It is actually easier than most flooring, but that doesn't mean you can make a million mistakes and get a good result. You still have to apply common sense and read instructions, and you clearly did not. Shame on you. This video is very misleading. I love my lvp flooring. And that brings me to my last point. You said lvp flooring typically will last 3 years, or 5 years if it is an exceptionally thick product. Then can you explain to me why ours has lasted so long and it still looks like new? This video is filled with misinformation at best.
I have LVF for over 7 years and this flooring still looks brand new as if it was installed yesterday. I am not sure what you got but as per what is seen on the video, your product sure looks cheap and I agree with your assessment but it is non comparable to the choice dealer installed product used in my home. I wish you better luck next time.
You didn't mention ensuring your floor was flat. The engineered floor I'm using allows 1/8" for every 6', dunno what your flooring might require. Don't confuse flat and level.
Look, when I was a little girl (I'm 62), most people had wood floors in their homes because that was the product that was used for flooring except in the kitchen and bathrooms. It was not considered a luxury item. You didn't have much of a choice. That was what builders put in homes. Then everybody started getting carpet and would cover the beautiful wood floors with carpet. I remember being in the 3rd grade and my friend bragging about having shag carpet and I was embarrassed because we only had wood floors. Funny now, but it's all perspective. We eventually moved to a house with carpet and I thought we had arrived. Years later the carpet was taken up and what a delightful surprise to see those beautiful wood floors that had been hidden. We're manipulated to believe whatever product is the trend at the time is what we have to have to keep up with the Joneses. It's all just material. I currently have lvp and love it, so easy, and no problems.
I understand your experience as a non Design, Construction or flooring professional however working as an commercial and residential interior designer for 20 years and having specified LVT for all types of projects - high to low end, I would encourage anyone watching this to contact a design, construction or flooring specialist (not Home Depot, Lowe’s or any discount flooring store) to get best options for your specific project. You pay for what you get and there are many flooring manufacturers such as Mannington and Shaw that offer great LVTs with residential warranties up to 15 -20 years. In addition, all subfloors have conditions that require some level of repair,leveling or adjustment prior to any floor installation. Sometimes you believe you are saving by doing a DYI but it may cost you in the end. Hope this helps!
From my personal experience, I can whole-heartily recommend SPC (stone plastic composite) flooring. I have no issues like that. Laminate/LVF with wood particle board core can swell a lot from moisture, rock composite cannot do that if you tried. The boards are more expensive (by about 50%), but in my opinion, it's well worth the price.
I'm honestly surprised that you of all people fell for LVT in the first place. It's been used as a cheap building material in "luxury apartments" across the country for years now.. thats a hard no from me
I put LVP in my hall closet, which had no flooring of its own (just a plywood subfloor) about seven years ago when I was in the process of finishing the renovation of that part of my house. Since that particular closet has a raised floor that's hiding the main return duct for my HVAC system, the fact that it's vinyl doesn't bother me because few people will ever walk on it.
When we bought our house the carpet was so bad we had to rip it out. Unable to spend the money on even the cheap stuff, we painted it a light blue. Going on 4 years and we keep putting off doing anything with it because it is functional and people really do not notice until I point it and and everyone ask why I would change it.... I have seen rental houses with the poly coat they put on the garage floors but I do not think I would go that far. I also saw a house ($750,000) that had clear varnish (I assume) and the floor looked cracked and stained - like an old garage floor.... I guess it's taste?
I've found that you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a cheap disposable floor, go for lvp. If you want something that will last 10 years plus, go with a high-end laminate. If you want something that will last foverer, pay a professional to install hardwood floors.
I have a +100 year old house and went with LVP because I more or less had to in terms of budget. The previous owners had installed VAT across the entire house and I had a contractor remove all of the asbestos. So I needed something inexpensive and quick to put down. Plus the floors are so uneven in the house that hardwood is not really an option without spending more to level the floors than I ended up spending on LVP. It has been more than two years and I have not had any issues really. I even ended up pulling all of the LVP that I had laid down at one point and was able to reuse about 90% of the full tiles, I didn’t even bother trying to save the ones that had been previously cut
I worked in full-service retail flooring for years, specifying many diverse products, but never the cheap ones. Landlords and house sellers insisted on cheap, but homeowners who wanted the truth spent much more and were satisfied even a decade later. Hardwoods that are properly finished will last 80 years, with screening and recoat every 20 or 30 years. DIY pre-finished wood planks, with miles of seams, are a problem, however, unless you edge-glue each joint during installation; this is how we did early-generation high-grade laminate flooring. These floors were genuinely indestructible in ordinary life. (HPL on HDF core), but where are they now? There's no money in indestructible, only in the "marry in haste, repent in leisure" mentality of consumerism. VISA cards cover everything!
What do you think of fossilized bamboo? For a comparable price to hardwood, but an increased water resistance has me intrigued as an option if I were to invest in higher quality flooring in the future.
Here in Europe this LVP product is relatively expensive. Wooden laminate flooring made of high density fibreboard is cheaper and can easily last 10 years of family use. Best to install it with the thick 10mm LDF underfloor for maximum comfort and quiet.
I'm truly surprised by your experience with this because as a fellow Texan that's now remodeled nearly every room in my house I've used LVP for the kitchen, bathroom, and bedrooms. It's been 4-5 years now and I haven't had any issues with it. We have some minor traffic scratches developing in the bathroom but beyond that its been fantastic. For the most part I've been getting mine through Costco as they offer some decent looking planks at a relatively comparable price to specialty shops. Like all things in construction I'm willing to bet there are quality brands that last and 'budget' brands that are more likely to fail. I have seen a few versions at a friends prefab house where the top layer was much 'softer' than mine and I interpreted that as possibly a cheaper brand that GCs use. I think the key with this stuff is that your floor has to basically be perfectly flat. Some suggest that if you have more than a 1/4" deviation throughout the room, its going to fail. In your images with the chair it looks like you've got some dips in the floor, but your flooring looks ultra-thin so to your point, don't consider anything less than 6mm. For cracked foundations like we have in TX, prepping the floor with a leveling agent is a necessity.
I have had LVP on my kitchen floor for 8 years with no issues. The planks came with a 20-year warranty. I agree, don't buy the cheap stuff because it will break down, so go for a higher end. This means paying more but it's worth it.
My son installed lvt in my bathroom 7 years ago. Zero experience. The tiles have held up beautifully. No buckling, etc. We bought it on sale at Menard's.
I did my daughter's bedroom with lvt 5 years ago; and it still looks great. I choose the brand/product line, and let my wife choose the pattern. Last year I did the bathroom, this time I went to the store with her, planning on getting the same product. My wife incested on something else. We got her choice, it needs to be redone already. I do plan on doing more Lvt as I can afford it, but I'm going back to that first brand. The product chosen makes a big difference.
I love this kind of honest review. As much as companies will point to installation failure, if the claim is truly DIY friendly there is obviously a problem.
I installed 1/4" luxury Vinyl plank in my bathroom with a cork back. I found it to be a great product. The tongue was very sturdy. I had to hammer in the planks with a rubber hammer and a block of wood. When it clicked into place it was very durable and water proof. To cut this product with a jigsaw. It was one of the many projects I have been doing after I lost my wife during COVID 4 years ago to keep busy in dealing with my loss after 32 years of marriage.
We covered our first floor with LVT 6 years ago. It has been great and even survived flooding from a leaking dishwasher. Maybe we lucked out (for a change) and picked a good brand. We had laminate in some rooms before that we hated. And we’re picky.
I appreciate this video so hard. LVP in my house started cracking 6 months after installation. The subfloor is uneven but the contractors used LVP anyway. 2 years later, there are about 10 major spots of damage. My only option now is to tape down the peeling material, fill the chips with filler, or get brand new floors. Not really work replacing individual boards because new cracks are right around the corner.
I did a cheeky remodel of my rental room last year -> Decided to "splurge" on "Marmoleum Click", $6/sqft at the time, w/ cork underlayment. It's absolutely perfect. Strong, EASY to install, "warm" on the feet.... with a little bit of common-sense caution, it's stayed flat, attractive, beautiful, hasn't buckled (10'x12' but still...), and has NO VOC SCENT AT ALL. No way in absolute HADES am I EVER going to build a house out of high-VOC plastic.... and vinyl's at the VERY top of that Avoid List. Plastic flooring it literally the polar opposite of "Luxury" -> It's a floor for the lowest-taste, lowest-quality, lowest-effort consumer 🤢
Not to sound like a commercial, but I've had great results using PERGO OUTLAST as my wood-based laminate flooring of choice. I was first drawn to the color choices and particularly the deep, ingrained texture on the topside which made it very NON-slippery to socked-feet. It also had a built-in foam backer for each piece so I knew it would be quiet on a wood subfloor. But before I purchased, I decided to give it a couple of important tests. Firstly, I soaked 2 small pieces in water for 24-hours. I pulled them out and attempted to mount them together and both pieces mated without issue, and there was no swelling in the pieces whatsoever. I was impressed so I gave it a second test. I took a phillips screwdriver and went to town (hard) on the top side attempting to simulate the wear that dogs with big claws might give it or humans moving furniture. I could not get it to significantly scratch. After purchase, it was simple to install with a circular saw and some tapping tools, and it still looks brand new 6 years later in my kitchen. I recommend it constantly to friends and family.
When I was a kid, we lived in a house that had particle board floors throughout. It was good quality particle board, and varnished a warm colour. So smooth and shiny! It was a damp part of the world, we had no heat in winter, but there were never any issues with the floors. I loved the look of it and would be partial to having that kind of flooring again if I ever get my own house.
I had a 200 gallon salt water aquarium burst and flooded my living area. I replaced the carpeting with a thick vinyl plank from a local flooring discount store. It was a DIY. There are some chips and a couple planks that have shifted and it looks dated. It's been 20 years now on those floors. I installed it in the kitchen (high water risk area), living room and dining room. First time ever installing flooring. It has held up extremely well. Of those 20 years of use, the first 5 had a pair of Rottweilers and two kids. The last 15 years were renters with pets. I am starting a remodel/flip and will decide between LVT and Vinyl Planks. Cost and ease of installation will be the factor. I also installed LVT in a house in Hawaii as part of a remodel. It was the stiff version not the thin wavy strips. Looked nice.
I'm kind of surprised that you went for it in your own home given your background of careful research into materials. Maybe it's unreasonable to expect any flooring to be easy to install and require almost no maintenance while taking all the abuse life in a home will throw at it. We should all endeavor to be more comfortable with routine maintenance of things. Anyway, maybe we can lobby these companies to stop making tacky fake wood. Let's get some fun designer patterns instead. It makes so much more sense to mimic mosaic tiles and marbles. If they want to produce a wood look, it should be in dimensions similar to a real hard wood so that the final appearance looks more realistic. Wood look LVP reminds me of wallpaper with a rough brick pattern. 😉 Thanks for sharing your experience!
I always use the thickest sheet vinyl flooring and cover the floor with no seams. We have 3 dogs and have never had a problem in any of our rooms that I installed it in. Anything that has seams in it is prone to separate or crack.
In china they're selling SPC floor with fresh core and better bottom rubber while some are selling used/recycled ones with bad adhesion. Based on the color of your SPC, I believe you are using the cheaper one
I’m European. I have a house in Portugal. My principal residence is in Canada. If you want a proper floor, you need a proper subfloor that is level and flat. That’s the standard in European construction. In Canada, you must take the time and effort to level, flatten and ensure the proper deflection resistance level is met to make sure you have options like laying porcelain tile down. Many installers or builders will even lay high quality hardwood floors over floors that aren’t level, nor flat or have too much deflection without a care in the world. Then you as the homeowner get stuck with all the downsides. Just go the extra mile. Do it right. No one wants to because it’s a serious commitment to do it right. I always tell every trade I meet that tells me: “I’ve done it this way for years and never had a problem.” My reply: have you gone back to all those places after 5 years to see the problem you say you’ve never seen? . . . EXACTLY!
All my apartment is covered on LVT, its heat neutral, its noise-dampening (the neighbor below doesn't hear a thing and I make a lot of noise), its easy to clean using water and detergent for example, it hasn't expanded or shrunk at all and it has been almost 15 years. The only problem is a light discoloration where the sunlight is constant, but nothing major and just on specific areas. At the time wasn't expensive and you can keep the tiles for years if you need to replace some.
One of the good points of this stuff is when it wears out (or gets wet due to say, a toilet leak) in three years you can gradually cycle it out in your trash bins! No cutting required. Just throw it away. Mostly this stuff is good for installing, then throwing away!
I helped my father to fit out my grandfather’s apartment with Vinyl plank flooring in the main living space and Vinyl tiles in the kitchen. The original floor was carpet over concrete. It was misery scraping that padding off of the floor. But once complete, we couldn’t have been happier.
We bought the thick, premium stuff with the thickest joints and exterior membrane as well as built in underlayment. That stuff was sooooooo heavy. It made tile seem light.
Even after ten years of hard use, including one tenant having a dog (German Shepherd) the stuff was almost like new. I hit the few deep scratches with a heat gun to flatten out the turned up edges of the dogs claw marks and picked out the few metal shards that embedded themselves into the floor. Presto! One would need to run their hand along the floor to find the blemishes.
It sounds like you bought poor planks, or had a floor issue, installed the flooring poorly. Not every flooring is perfect, but I would take Vinyl plank over MDF laminate any day.
Same here. I have the stuff for 4yrs in high traffic areas, and not a single issue!
(E) all of the above
@@macmurfy2jka I agree that it is great stuff. Mine wasn't even that premium but home depot's sale vinyl planking that overlapped. The exterior is wearing off. Someday when I move out and begin to rent the place, I will have to paint over the floor or put in new planking. Functionally it is still in great condition.
I installed wood laminate with at least 12mm of thickness and a strong locking mechanism and it’s held up well.
@@ryans413 Right.
Engineered wood is not at all what this video is about.
Luxury vinyl plank is chosen specifically because it _isnt_ wood, with its attendant issues with traction, moisture and finish
Whenever furniture breaks a joint, it is a good bet that the floor was not properly prepped before installation. The floor has to be dead flat and smooth before installation. Secondly, a better quality plank is HEAVY and will resist movement when it is properly joined.
This is key. If there is any flex or unevenness in your floor you have to fix that first, either by tightening things up, or adding a sub floor like drycore
I have had LVP for 4 years now and not a single complaint. Stuff is still as good as new
The thinner options of LVPs almost feel like they should be categorized as a different product if you compare them to the ones that are above 5mm. The joints look so much different due to the fact that the manufacturers have more thickness to design a more rigid joint.
@@xdxdsheep To be frank, if you PROPERLY install this stuff the thickness shouldn't matter. The joints don't NEED to be strong, since there shouldn't be ANY deflection of the floor. If you do it means your sub floor is no good, and you need to fix that before you put this stuff down.
It still sucks no matter how much it costs!
I needed to redo my wood floors. They were an absolute mess. I was about ready to install LVP, but I hated the idea of covering my hardwood because I have REAL SOLID 3/4 inch HICKORY floors. I finally got a reasonable quote for refinishing, and decided give refinishing a try. It was a hassle to be out of the house for a week, but the result was incredible. After refinishing, they look just like new. They are thick enough that they can be sanded and refinished many more times. I think a lot of the problems people have with flooring can be traced to the subfloor. If your house has settled, or the floors are uneven with poor support, you're going to have problems with any layer you put on top. But nobody budgets to repair and flatten their subfloor, they just throw a new top layer on and hope to cover up any problems underneath.
All about the subfloor. Best decision. Keeping your hardwood floors. They're timeless and take a beating. HGTV and similar remodeling channels have done a major deserves to quality.
You’re absolutely right. They cover up the bad subfloor and then they magically expect the problems to not cascade through. You need a good foundation for anything good to be built over top, including a nice floor.
You absolutely made the right choice. Hands down, no contest. Hardwood floors can easily last 100 years, look great and, in most cases, can be repaired when disaster strikes.
Our bamboo flooring has been holding up well for many years.
I have bamboo upstairs - it is higher quality than the Home Depot stuff I used downstairs which is hmm... let's just say I can't speak highly of it!A
Anyway I also have had good luck with the bamboo flooring I bought.
I've seen bamboo flooring in both public community buildings and private homes, and those floors all show wear very noticeably, with much scuffing and loss of coloring. I don't know if it can be sanded and refinished. Both public buildings replaced the bamboo flooring; one with wood, the other with quality linoleum.
I've seen enough "luxury apartment" complexes in my life to not trust the word "luxury" in any marketing context.
"Luxury style" apartment
@@H0meworkso it is not the apartment that is luxury, but the living style of the sellers
I've had it in my hallway and guest bathroom for 5 years. I got it from Lowe's. Zero issues with it. No buckling. No peeling. No concerns. Sometimes, it's the brand and composition that are the problem. Also, seems like the installation might also be part of the problem. Also, yours looks a lot thinner than the one we bought.
Yea.. I think if was her subfloor having issues
If you take care of it it'll probably last 10 years. Partially dependent on climate, of course. If you're in California in an area without much change in the weather it'll probably do fine. If youre on the east coast well... maybe forget about it.
“Developed hollow spots” sounds like sub floor problem
Yeah buckling and hollow spots is a bad installation job or subfloor issue. That would happen with any product.
Yup, can’t blame the flooring when the subfloor is garbage
I came here looking for this comment. The spot under the table leg looked like the floor was not flat and had a dip in that area. Don't blame the product when it is installed incorrectly. I'd be willing to bet the subfloor has 3/8" or greater deviations in flatness. Did it meet this requirement? Flat: All wood and concrete subfloors must be flat within 1/8” over a 6' span, or 3/16” over a 10' span.
@@kenhoward127 Exactly. That's a requirement so many ignore, and then they blame the flooring for breaking...
@belindacarr this is 100% your issue. I don’t think it’s fair to grab your personal anecdotal experience and throw the entire product line in the trash.
This is a DIY flooring install gone wrong due to mis-prepped subfloor.
If you installed tile or even hardwood I’d be surprised if you didn’t have additional challenges
Buy once, cry once: 3/4 hardwood floor. Sand (or just buff) & refinish once every 15-20 years. Otherwise it’s barely any more maintenance than LVP. Expensive? Yes. But it’s 100+ years of beauty and character.
100%
The problem is that the people who are buying the materials for the house don't care about durability anymore. No one's expecting to live in the house for more than a few years if they're even going to live in it, a decent fraction of the people buying home finishes these days are landlords who are just looking to minimize the dollar amount and flippers who are basically the same.
100 years? Very few people care at all about what the house is like in 25 years, never mind 100
Year right. I have 125 year old hardwood floors and they suck. Suck bad. There is to much flex, movement, the gaps are huge as shit. I spent a lot of money to restore them only to end up with poly stained single boards with all of the damn gap filler cracking and coming out. I have boards that have massive gaps in them. Damaged boards and all kinds of problems. Sure the floor I am on right now looked like a million dollars when we finished it the first day and slowly go worse as time went.
Problem is over time nails lossen, boards swell, boards shrink. I would never recoment anyone to refinish a floor if they have any gaps at all. Unless your wood floor was laid on top of a osb Tongue and Groove floor with 100% glued 1" plywood flooring and then each hard wood board was contact cement and screwed down. The boards were kiln dried several times over.
Or you do the sub floor and then 3/4 Tongue and Groove floating floor. This way you could wedge it as it no longer fits. Yet I doubt that will work.
Concrete finished floors are low cost and if you spend the money you can have it look like wood too!
@@kameljoe21 Your points are well-taken. I had a home for 20 years that, when I bought it, its floors were 95 years old (and, for the math-impaired, 115 years old when I left). They were Wisconsin maple and my house was in Minnesota. There was no buckling, but I've seen similarly-aged homes in Kansas City with similar floors suffer terrible buckling. I did have gaps between the wood planks in two bedrooms that, at some point, suffered water damage. And, you make a great point about sub floors. In one room, I had my hardwood floor removed, leveled the joists and glued & screwed ¾" OSB subfloor, then re-installed, sanded and finished. Those floors were SILENT. It was the forged nails in the 1 by * diagonal pine subfloor affixed to uneven joists that were the cause of the squeaking.
My counter to your valid points is, what should you buy today? Gluing and screwing ¾ inch OSB subfloor is nearly ubiquitous these days. Indoor humidity/temperature is better controlled now. Perhaps Texas (and other places where the temperature and/or humidity gets very high) isn't the best place for hardwood floors. But I think hardwood floors installed on a subfloor made of ¾" plywood or OSB could last longer and stay in better condition than floors installed 100 years ago.
I think the other problem is the WIDE difference in quality between cheaper LVP and higher grade. I've been very happy with the stuff I bought 2 years ago and its held up incredibly well. My mother went with a cheaper product and absolutely regrets it with the same problems you describe. (That said its much easier to justify spending more when your whole house is only 800 sq ft vs her much larger home.) I also had many problems in the rental I lived in previously where the flooring warps and cracks like crazy when exposed to the florida sun over months. I've generally found that the skinnier (side to side not thickness) the "plank," the better it holds up but that could just be because the skinnier ones are generally more expensive per sq ft.
Definitely and her video seems to account for it yet it's also kinda skirted.
But also, to your example: two years is not a metric of longevity at all.
@@AlexPotvin Generally I would agree, but the flooring in the rental I was was falling apart after 2 years in several areas, and my mothers was showing wear already whereas even where I have my computer chair where I'm at a lot looks brand new still with this stuff. Granted, its a sample size of 1, but Ive been fairly impressed.
@@AlexPotvinI’ve had LVP for 12 years (I don’t think they even called it LVP when we bought it). They have held up extremely well to a house with dogs running all over it all the time.
Wood would have actually been cheaper to install, but would have been heavily scratched and damaged by the dogs quickly.
As a General Contractor who has to deal with customers years down the road I no longer install LVP. In every price category there is a superior choice in laminate or engineered. Even if all of them haven't failed, the higher rate of failure is enough for me to stay away.
@@im2geek4u the high failure rate is due to frequent misapplication. No laminate or engineered compares on slab-on-grade or on basement slabs when moisture may be present.
@@robertlitman2661 except when lvp cups due to moisture. My installer followed Mohawk's installation instructions, Mohawk warrantied it.
What do you suggest instead as a kitchen (wet) flooring option?
Laminate is total garbage, can't believe you'd even suggest such a thing. Anything with an MDF substrate is going to get swollen seams and water damage. No way to avoid it. We fell into the laminate trap with a couple of our rental properties, and we had to replace it all within a couple of years. Absolute scam product. Wood or engineered wood is okay, but LVP is 100% waterproof.
@@thomastheman7331 Not a problem if you use good stuff, absent hydrostatic pressure it won't go through, in my experience.
Replaced carpet and tile in my house with LVP and couldn't be happier, its been perfect.
the ingredient you are missing is "time". Wait for it, and wont be too long
@@superwag634 Not all LVP is the same. Some is garbage. Some isn't. Also, judging by the video, it looked like the subfloor was screwed up in the woman's video. Mine was screwed up too, but, it still worked good.
@@idmhead0160How can I know which will be the best investment. I certainly want the flooring to last longest in good condition. I understand the importance of a good subfloor, flatness and leveling. But even taking the best precautions of premium investment in the subfloor, what have I, only an average homeowner, to avail myself to judge the quality of the lasting value of a prospective product? Price and testimonials?? Serious question here.
Sadly, parts of Texas are known for foundation movements especially clay soils as well as where you live.
"Luxury" is one of the most overused words today. Here in Chicago I laugh to myself every time I see a mundane new home or apartment building described by the realtor's sign as "Luxury". BTW. Today I am about to buy some LVF. We are selling an apartment we own and the previous tenant destroyed the floors (and well the walls, etc). The flooring person said the wood floor had been sanded so many times in the past he could not fix the damage since he would end up exposing the substrate. He suggested LVF. Unfortunately, for purely economic reasons we will have this installed. In our own living space that we gut-renovated a few years ago we installed oak hardwood floors.
@jimjimgl3 In my area is an RV storage facility labeled luxury. As if RVs need caviar and champagne!
@@2ndChanceAtLife What’s next? “Luxury Outhouse”…!
You got it: it’s a luxury wrapping product!
or "exclusive" new residential development. I think it would be highly influential on younger folks though who have not yet acquired the wisdom of experience.
Have a look at Tarkett Vericore at Menards. I'm in the Chicago area and installed it in 2019 in a rental. It is a good product. I have seen other vinyl plank flooring that is garbage. IMHO, the person in the video is making too broad of a statement.
Overall excellent video Belinda but but painting a whole class of a product with a broad brush is a mistake. I installed a more expensive, thicker, higher quality LVP in my home 10 years ago and still looks brand new. Mine had an attached pad.
Wondering why linoleum doesn't get more love.
Indeed! Now that’s a quality product made from natural materials
If it came in really wide rolls and had a sticky backing I would put it in my living room.
I dislike it because it scratches easily and the word hurts my tongue.
Yeah why wasnt it even mentioned as an alternative in this video lol. The stuff is insanely durable and sustainable while existing at a similar price range. Feels like a missed opportunity
@@gwety4496 Difficult for the average DIYer to install.
We had rigid core vinyl plank flooring (“Lifeproof” brand) installed throughout the majority of our house in 2018. It’s been great, and it still looks really good. We’ve only had a few issues with how the transition strips were installed, but that’s hardly the fault of the manufacturer.
Same. It seems like she had a bad experience with a cheap brand's product and is bashing the material as a whole
@@blueseas43 She also has a subfloor problem. Her joints broke when weight was applied. That is because the weight made the plank move downward, and the joint failed when trying to drag the adjacent plank with it. That downward motion isn't supposed to be available. I've got tongue and groove pine flooring, original to the home, and it shows the exact same problem, for the same reason: lack of support beneath it.
We installed LVP throughout our entire basement in ~2019, and have had no problems at all. It is also our living room, so there is heavy furniture, a treadmill, etc laying on it and being moved around. I don't recall the thickness, but it had a thin cork underlayment attached. We also put a lot of work into making the slab very level (even renting a cement grinder floor buffer machine). Due to the significant amount of prep work, there is no give in the flooring for it to wear on the joints over time. We have been, and continue to be, very happy with the install. DIY saves on the labor cost (if you pay attention and do the details right), so springing for a higher quality product is a no-brainer.
What brand did you use?
On slab! That is one of THE BEST RESPONSES!
@@SnakeHandler-g7u I had to go look it up (read: ask the wife), and it's Coretec, specifically "Biscayne Oak".
@@SnakeHandler-g7u Have a look at Tarkett Vericore at Menards. I have no affiliation with the company, but, installed it in the entire floor in two houses. One was in 2019 and another last year. It's good stuff and I've yet to notice a problem. What I like about it is that it locks together very well. My dad had a different brand that cost the same in another house and it was garbage.
@@GazeboPelt Prepping the slab makes all the difference. Hell the guys that installed my flooring didn't even sweep and vacuum the slab properly so there are small rocks stuck under the floor. Its a rental so not much I can do about it.
Luxury Vinyl Flooring has a warmer sound - you can't get that from digital flooring.
Watching this keenly; I just installed some "loose lay" LVT because of the constraints that made other materials tough/muuuch more expensive to install well. The subfloor is too uneven and flexy for laminate or LVP. There is also radiant heating in the subfloor to make things even more complicated. I put down a stip of glue in my center line and around the perimeter, and prepped the subfloor by scraping and vacuuming thoroughly every time a tile or glue was about to be placed. Larger size of tiles and thicker wear layer hopefully will mean my LVT won't be susceptible at least to some of the issues you mention. Thanks again for your interesting, well-prepared content, Belinda!
We had oak hardwood flooring installed in the entire house. Very expensive but zero problems. We have had water stains. We can just sand and refinish the floors and they look like new. These floors will last forever.
But even this oak hardwood is a thin veneer glued to a substrate. Unless you built it with solid 19mm planks like they built my house back in the 50s
@@superwag634"Hardwood" is solid flooring, not veneer.
I'm not sure where you're from, but oak, hickory, maple, walnut, cherry, whatever, is sustainably harvested and produced from timber lots managed by a proper Forester.
Land owners typically have generations invested in making sure their holding continues to produce quality hardwood every year.
I wouldn't even consider it "very expensive" if you look at the lasting quality of a job well done.
It will still be fine long after you're gone! (unless you live in a cardboard box subdivision w/ a HOA)
@@jimurrata6785 yeah, ok, thats a quality product. Im in Australia, and here they have started selling "hardwood" flooring from cheap philippine meranti or mahogany glued to some form of backing, possibly even cement fibre sheeting. Its just another way to make australian housing more shit, and the most expensive in the world.
@@superwag634 What you describe would be called "engineered hardwood flooring" here in the US.
I'm surprised housing is so expensive in Aus?
Seems like you have plenty of land and resources???
Did my whole house 7 years ago and not 1 problem to date. Don't understand why yours is so bad.
I’ve been doing renovation work for about 22 years, and I’ve never seen that she’s talking about it. This is all on her, she bought a cheap product or did not front for floor.
It certainly looks like she got cheap crap... and thus the advice to look for suitable thicknesses.
So? I've seen these same issues dozens of times, especially in refloored mobile homes. Come to think of it, I can't say I've seen a single instance of this vinyl flooring that didn't have at least 1 spot that was damaged/failing in some way. Call it installer error all ya like, if a product needs extremely specific conditions and installation methods, it's not a good product.
@@custos3249 I live in the country working on 7 acres and living in a mobile home. My work boots don't come off when I go indoors because I'm always in a hurry. I installed LVP 2 1/2 years ago and they still look brand new even coming in with mud on my boots to grab something and right back out. There's not a single spot that has given me any fault. I went with a 12mil. wear layer with foam backing and did very little surface prep other than removing carpet staples and a good vacuuming. I used Style Selections brand from Lowes. My 2 pups at the time peeing on them often didn't harm anything but my patience. Luckily they're now house trained.
@@custos3249 I put padded foam underlayment under all my flooring. Think she only used roll plastic. She is wrong about using just plastic film as it doesn't compensate for uneven subfloor.
Here in Germany I’ve seen several homes with vinyl flooring. We moved into an apartment, where the landlord had vinyl flooring done to save money. It’s now 3 years old and not lightly used. We don’t have a single issue of the ones you show, neither do friends apartments. I’m not a floor guy but here the edges of the panels look like they’re glued together with a Color matching product. Maybe ask a company that offers vinyl flooring as a service, for input.
Hardwood floors are high maintenance??? I haven't had to do anything to mine in like 30 years.
Haha, I suppose if you want to fix every scratch it could be though. Especially if you have dogs
Thank yer. I will keep my white oak and red oak. My home is older and has it's original wood floor from when it was built in at least three rooms.
it's interesting that you've had such a bad experience. Anecdotally, our home was built in 2019-2020 and came with vinyl wood flooring on our bottom level of the house (the most high traffic by far) and it's been absolutely nothing but smooth sailing. There's one spot that's had a small creak since new, but it gets tons of wet boots and mopping, stuff dropped on it, and it's been flawless.
For the first time I disagree with your review. We hired someone to install Kardean flooring, it has been in for around 15 years. Yes, the shrinkage is an issue and I have to move planks in spring and autumn. But compared to carpet, cork flooring, tiles and polished timber, it has been the best flooring ever. I do accept the floor needs to leveled using a self leveling compound that doubled the cost, but that would also be true for large format tiles. We did not use the click together planks, they were square edge and still make me feel good. Please keep up the good work, love your reviews.
I sold Karndean at my previous job. People loved it, & we never had any complaints about it. A very large selection of options. Pro tip, the commercial grade is actually cheaper than the residential grade, because they make so much of it, but your selection of colors is more limited.
LVP is absolutely fantastic if you get a good one. 3 years later in our office it's still like new : foot traffic, daily wet cleaning, office chairs, furniture dragging - it handles all. And it's even not installed with a "permanent" glue, just the one that allows to remove a plank in case you need to. Half of the office guests mistake it for real wood.
Also, when using radiant heating, vinyl flooring can lead to the release of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and other potentially harmful substances.
don't most flooring options come with a top protective polymer layer or get a layer of protective polymer coating added after sanding like hardwoods, that would also emit VOCs?
@@rokhamler3352 I can speak about what I know, but beyond that, I'm unsure :)
I used Forbo Marmoleum from Green Building Supply. It’s lock and click, so installation was easy. It is supposed to be a more natural alternative to linoleum (linseed oil, wood flour, resin, limestone and jute). Had it in kitchen for over 6 months, has been great. Easy to clean. I have hard wood floors in other parts of home that are covered in old linoleum. If refinishing them is too challenging, I plan on putting down more marmoleum. Highly recommend.
Thanks! We have been looking into getting Marmoleum from that company.
Looks like an install issue? Was the floor level? We have used glue down vinyl in two renovations and love it!
I have 3/4” thick, 5-1/4” plank solid maple flooring, and it’s pretty low maintenance!!
Hi Belinda! I always enjoy your videos. I hope I do not experience the issues you have with LVP. I waited 20 years to remodel my kitchen and had the ugliest vinyl flooring in America replaced with a gorgeous LVP. I had my Contractor perform the installation . So far, all is okay. 🤞 Fingers crossed. Thanks - Don
If this was a different TH-cam channel, I might have some sympathy. She smart, she knows building material, she’s college educated and tech savvy, plus she clearly knows how to do research.
That product was only allowed to move up and down, because the substrate was not in tolerance or it was just such a cheap product!
I’m guessing she was being extremely cheap and that’s why she bought a product that I have never seen do that! . I’m gonna blame her 100%!
Ye, I was thinking the same thing
I missed you, hope all is well with you and your family! Eek I have purchased this for my cabin kitchen but not installed yet. This stuff seems evil!
Cause you bought the cheap one. Buy the good vinyl and it's the best flooring product that will go decades with no issues and very easy in install. You can even buy the commercial grade ones, thick ones.
We installed a high grade LVP and had it professionally installed. Its been extremely durable and easy to clean.
I've run into the same problems you sited in this video, this is a real problem.
Can you get details please? Because I have never seen this in my life, so I’m so skeptical.
However, I do want to avoid this in the future since I do renovation work.
I had about 1000sf of LVT installed at my preschool in 2019. It is has been perfect! It has needed no maintenance so far, unlike the VCT it replaced, and I cannot see any wear despite 60+ kids running around on it all day. We used a commercial grade version and it was professionally installed on a concrete slab floor. It was a glue down installation. Not cheap! But I have no regrets.
It is very good to know that I should not consider a cheaper, floating floor version of "LVT" for any work at my house! I'll stick to tile and wet-area rated engineered wood plank than you very much (and continue to DIY to save some $$.)
I'm pretty surprised by this, since I have LVP flooring and I have never had any of the issues you mentioned... I don't know if it's related to climate, since I'm in New England, but I have had no issues at all so far and I'm not exactly careful with the flooring either (although it's only been two years). I used the Home Depot (lifeproof I think they call it) brand.
I'm in Texas. No issues at all on ours.
I've seen some very high quality ones that turned out amazing, but I've lived on apartments with low quality ones and OMG they are awful (like Belinda showed).
My opinion? You get what you pay with these...
Been using LVP 12 mil. layer in Arkansas for 2 1/2 years in a mobile home with 2 pups that used to pee all over it and it still looks brand new. I used Lowe's "Style Selections" brand. I'm installing it in our master bathroom this weekend.
The subfloor you install lvp over must be perfectly flat or you will have all of these problems. DIYers will not be able to achieve this
as a installer what your video showed is semi rigid or the cheapest choice often under 2.00 a sq. ft., rigid style flooring which runs about 3.50 a sq. Ft .and doesn't have any of the problems you show, you went cheap and paid the price and are now complaining
100%. Another possibility is your subfloor wasn’t flat.
DIY always go cheaper for saving the minimum, lvp minimum thickeness 6.5 mm,
Bingo.
Yes
Yes let's blame the customer for buying something and expecting it to work. Next time you buy cheap ground beef and die, blame yourself
My wife and I have been watching your videos for years and really enjoy them not because we're really into building materials, but because it's a relief to hear someone talk about something in an informed and thoughtful way. We've definitely learned a lot of interesting and useful things, though, so we are fans.
But I am puzzled by your take on LVP. Since the flooring alternatives are expensive and difficult we used LVP in our master bathroom (about ten years ago) and in our kitchen (three years ago). I installed it carefully and fussed over getting it right, but once down it has performed excellently for us. Both rooms get daily traffic, four of us use the kitchen and you have to pass through the kitchen to enter or leave the back half of the house. It looks like new everywhere except for one 1/4" dent in the kitchen where somebody dropped something. You have to look for the dent to see it. Otherwise it looks great, it's comfortable, quiet, and easy to clean. I'm about to put it in the second bathroom. Perhaps it's because we have a slab foundation (I am installing it over the glued down vinyl that was installed when the house was build 37 years ago). The concrete means the substrate is level and unmoving. Or perhaps you got a bad batch of flooring. Otherwise I can't explain the difference between the horror we just saw in your video vs. the floors we love in our kitchen and bathroom.
Normally I would follow your advice, but, again, the alternatives are all much worse and LVP is, for me, a wonderful solution. I know it will only last ten years and then need to be redone, but redoing it is neither expensive nor difficult. I am sorry that it's all going to end up in the landfill until the sun turns into a red giant, but ceramic tile, hardwood, and MDF are completely out of the question. Maybe in ten years there will be something better, and we'll probably hear about it from you, but in the mean time I would readily recommend LVP to anyone, though I would recommend they look at reviews and get the best materials.
There is no question that the word "Luxury" used here is just stupid. I guess they were trying to differentiate the product from cheap vinyl tiles, but every time say "luxury vinyl" out loud I feel stupid.
I see lots of what happened to you. I used the thick and expensive stuff at my parent home, and have had zero issues in 5 years and frankly it still looks good
Two words regarding where you went wrong: Home Depot.
Interesting experience. I used Bella Engineered Hardwood with the plywood core in my basement 8 years ago. Most of the floor gets light use except the family room. In winter we spend a lot of time there with 3 dogs. It looks really good. We had it glued to the concrete and it has not moved. The biggest problem was the pad we removed had been glued down. I had to crawl across 1300 square feet with an angle grinder to get the floor prepped.
I've used it in my kitchen(installed 5 years ago) and in my RV(installed 7 years ago) and haven't had any issues so far.
I will add that we had thinner interlocking vinyl boards that didn't have a separate foam or laminate layer adhered to them. The "grain" is stamped into the board and the wooden texture is printed on. We're using the traffic master brand flooring from homedepot. They, like all of the other brands also claim to be water proof, resistant to damage and scratches, etc etc. We've found it to be pretty durable and haven't had any issues with denting either, buckling or cracking. I'll try and find the exact product we used.
That said, I wholeheartedly agree that it is not a luxury product. It is a "good enough" product that gives a nice at-a-glance visual facelift to homes with older flooring.
I've used both southern yellow pine boards (in my farmhouse, which got scratched but were beautifully golden, and required ongoing attention which I was fine with because the wood was so lovely) and engineered hickory in a floating installation, which has held up extremely well because of its hardness, doesn't show scratches much, and is gorgeous. The engineered aspect meant that after a water leak in one area caused some boards to bow up, that was temporary and the boards settled back down on their own after drying out. The engineered hardwood is far less maintenance, just keeping clean and polished with Bona brand products every so often, as simple as mopping.
I hate LVP so much. I'm glad more and more people are realizing how bad it is.
I used the HomeDepot thick rigid version with a real wood veneer $3.50/sqft (2021) across a very very large space and aside from a single seam it has mostly been fantastic. It will scratch a little easier because its actual wood on top, but that wood is completely sealed from water and you get a very nice patina with sun exposure. But, I dunno how many years that will last., very optimistic currently. Correct installation is VERY important.
I think the bigger issue here is our houses just have too much unused floor space vs having more compact spaces with higher quality materials! We blow stupid amounts of money on "space" instead of investing in living areas. Visit Europe sometime, saw some very nice homes in Germany that were very compact/vertical.
The absolute best flooring I've found is woven fiberglass (Tarkett Fiberfloor is the brand we used, but there are others.) It's kind of like a super-thick linoleum that doesn't curl and doesn't require gluing. It's thickness makes it more durable than linoleum, as well as more forgiving for non-level subfloors. Easiest floor install I've ever done.
Good tip, but Tarkett Fiberfloor is sheet vinyl with a backing, not linoleum. In some areas sheet vinyl flooring is called "linoleum", but vinyl and linoleum are very different materials.
Thank you, I tell people that it's not durable and hard to replace ❤❤
I can see the durability issue, but why would it be hard to replace?
@@btd6vids They have the interlock system, so if you need to replace an individual plank, you would have to uninstall everything up to it, then lay it all back down.
Five years strong so far. No issues at all. High traffic area.
@@imadork123 for DIYer, yes. Call a professional.
2 1/2 years running in and out of the house with my muddy boots on and it still looks brand new. I'm working on 7 acres so I run in and out all the time and so do my 2 dogs that used to pee all over the floor when they were pups. Perfect floors to this day.
This is just a personal opinion, no technical knowledge behind that! There are a lot of factors lead to material / installation failure! I installed Armstrong grouted LVT 7 years ago & hardly you can tell it is not a stone flooring.
No problems with ours over many years. Pre-pandemic. Really needed to replace old floors. LVT was NOT the cheapest and builders stood behind it. Professional installation. They ground the whole floor with professional equipment. I think you got a cheap version. We could not afford wood flooring which would be the next cost up. Gets wet a lot and our floor is known for moisture. But thanks for the video. I would keep it in mind to see that products are better.
I put down hardwood click panels, just about the cheapest kind, 25€/m² at the time. There's only 2.5mm of beech, on 7.5mm of softwood (pine, by the looks of it). Unlikely to be sufficient for a proper resurfacing.
At that price level the tolerances are sloppy. There's height differences between the panels (.25mm is one of the worse ones, enough to be visible from a standing position and noticable while barefoot). It feels like wood underfoot. It's somewhat vulnerable to water and quite vulnerable to oil, which will soak right into the short edges and never come out. There are fine scratches under furniture feet, but no dents. It's darkened considerably where the UV reaches. When something hard and dense drops on it, it'll leave a mark. Very visible, but smooth repairs can be performed with a drill, dowel, glue, flush trim saw and chisel.
At that price, I'm quite happy with it.
You have moisture in your slab get a moisture meter and check your slab
I’ve had great success with our lvp installed. We have dogs and kids and has held up exceptionally well for four years of hard use. We did research and purchased what we felt was a higher quality product.
you know its personal when belinda says "i call bs" in the middle of an official review lol
I'm an architect and had LVT installed in my traditional 1911 home over 14 years ago. We had a new subfloor put down over the old badly damaged original strip oak flooring (after the nasty carpets were taken up!). I couldn't be happier with the product from Karndean. Ours has a 20 mil wear layer and has stood up to dogs, cats, and two (now teenage) boys very well; it still looks great. We had nice decorative edging details done to add flair to the design. We used a highly qualified installer with a glue down process. The floor is easy to clean, durable, flexible (as some of the floor has settled unevenly without causing issues with the LVT), and looks great. Almost everyone who sees it thinks that it's natural wood. We liked it so much that we ended up using a similar marble tile look product from Karndean for out two bathroom renovations and are very happy with that as well; we like the waterproof aspect of the LVT in the bathrooms, of course. I think the wear surface and quality installation are absolutely key to a successful use of LVT products and, based on my own experience, I recommend them for residential applications (commercial is another story).
An easy test of lvp quality is to try to snap off the locking mechanism with your hands. If it’s super easy don’t buy it. It should take some force .
You don’t have enough real world experience with this product to be making videos like this. Your sample size is 1 and there could have been a bunch of reasons for this kinda failure. Chiefly buying the cheapest garbage flooring.
@@conradcoolerfiend Dollars to donuts she doesn't own a 10' (3m) straightedge, let alone knows how to use it to ensure the slab is flat within spec.
Whooo! Belinda dropping another one. It felt like forever.
Steller has a compelling hardwood flooring system that installs about as easily as LVP. The downside is their price point, which is a bit higher than typical hardwood, but the benefits of their products seem to justify the expense. We're planning to purchase that for installing in one of the rooms in our renovation.
Glue down LVT or LVP is the only one I would use and did use 20 years ago. No issues in 20 years!!
Glue down has basically none of the disadvantages of the more commonly used variety. Also have it in my home and love it
I bought a house that had lvp 3,5 years ago here in Florida and it is as good as new. No problems whatsoever. We were happy to find a house with all hard flooring, no carpet!
I agree with your environmental concerns, but I've seen this stuff hold up for years in high-use areas with multiple people and numerous pets. The stuff I've walked on is actually extremely durable.
As a person with a lot of experience with luxury vinyl plank flooring, I can tell from your video that the problems you experienced were largely due to installer error. You clearly had subfloor problems that placed unacceptable pressure on the joints. Typically you cannot have more than 1/4" variation per 10 ft or else you will have these kinds of problems. This is all explained in the installation instructions for all of these products. In other words, yes, you need a very smooth floor, and most do-it-yourselfers are too lazy or to ill-informed to bother with proper preparation. Also, I can tell from your video that you used some of the cheapest lvp flooring available. I can tell from the low quality visual design, and the fact that the visual design does not match the texture of the product, which is called embossed in register. You probably paid less than $2 per square foot for that garbage. Lvp is like most building products. You get what you pay for. There is really low quality stuff, and there is really high quality stuff. The thing is, you do not have to pay a lot for good lvp, you just can't get the cheapest garbage out there and expect it to be good. You really only have to pay $4 or $5 per square foot to get some really nice stuff, and of course there is stuff even more expensive than that that is even better. But you do not have to pay a lot. You just can't get the cheapest garbage and expect it to be good. And when you said that this product expanded more than MDF laminate, well, you are either very confused, or you are mistaken, and that is the nicest way I can say it, because I do not want to call you a liar with a vendetta. A lot of times people have a bad experience with a product and they are hoping that they can bully the manufacturer into giving them free replacement when it was their installation that caused the problems, so they make these videos and tell everybody what a horrible product this is, and you are taking it one step further and bashing an entire industry, not just one company's products. It is ridiculous. So many people have had excellent results with these kinds of products. You just need to apply a little bit of care so that the installation is done properly. It is actually easier than most flooring, but that doesn't mean you can make a million mistakes and get a good result. You still have to apply common sense and read instructions, and you clearly did not. Shame on you. This video is very misleading. I love my lvp flooring. And that brings me to my last point. You said lvp flooring typically will last 3 years, or 5 years if it is an exceptionally thick product. Then can you explain to me why ours has lasted so long and it still looks like new? This video is filled with misinformation at best.
I have LVF for over 7 years and this flooring still looks brand new as if it was installed yesterday. I am not sure what you got but as per what is seen on the video, your product sure looks cheap and I agree with your assessment but it is non comparable to the choice dealer installed product used in my home. I wish you better luck next time.
You didn't mention ensuring your floor was flat. The engineered floor I'm using allows 1/8" for every 6', dunno what your flooring might require. Don't confuse flat and level.
Furniture splitting it on the seams indicates air gaps, subfloor was definitely not flat and/or stable enough
Look, when I was a little girl (I'm 62), most people had wood floors in their homes because that was the product that was used for flooring except in the kitchen and bathrooms. It was not considered a luxury item. You didn't have much of a choice. That was what builders put in homes. Then everybody started getting carpet and would cover the beautiful wood floors with carpet. I remember being in the 3rd grade and my friend bragging about having shag carpet and I was embarrassed because we only had wood floors. Funny now, but it's all perspective. We eventually moved to a house with carpet and I thought we had arrived. Years later the carpet was taken up and what a delightful surprise to see those beautiful wood floors that had been hidden. We're manipulated to believe whatever product is the trend at the time is what we have to have to keep up with the Joneses. It's all just material. I currently have lvp and love it, so easy, and no problems.
I understand your experience as a non Design, Construction or flooring professional however working as an commercial and residential interior designer for 20 years and having specified LVT for all types of projects - high to low end, I would encourage anyone watching this to contact a design, construction or flooring specialist (not Home Depot, Lowe’s or any discount flooring store) to get best options for your specific project. You pay for what you get and there are many flooring manufacturers such as Mannington and Shaw that offer great LVTs with residential warranties up to 15 -20 years. In addition, all subfloors have conditions that require some level of repair,leveling or adjustment prior to any floor installation. Sometimes you believe you are saving by doing a DYI but it may cost you in the end. Hope this helps!
From my personal experience, I can whole-heartily recommend SPC (stone plastic composite) flooring. I have no issues like that. Laminate/LVF with wood particle board core can swell a lot from moisture, rock composite cannot do that if you tried. The boards are more expensive (by about 50%), but in my opinion, it's well worth the price.
I'm honestly surprised that you of all people fell for LVT in the first place. It's been used as a cheap building material in "luxury apartments" across the country for years now.. thats a hard no from me
I put LVP in my hall closet, which had no flooring of its own (just a plywood subfloor) about seven years ago when I was in the process of finishing the renovation of that part of my house. Since that particular closet has a raised floor that's hiding the main return duct for my HVAC system, the fact that it's vinyl doesn't bother me because few people will ever walk on it.
When we bought our house the carpet was so bad we had to rip it out. Unable to spend the money on even the cheap stuff, we painted it a light blue. Going on 4 years and we keep putting off doing anything with it because it is functional and people really do not notice until I point it and and everyone ask why I would change it.... I have seen rental houses with the poly coat they put on the garage floors but I do not think I would go that far. I also saw a house ($750,000) that had clear varnish (I assume) and the floor looked cracked and stained - like an old garage floor.... I guess it's taste?
I've found that you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a cheap disposable floor, go for lvp. If you want something that will last 10 years plus, go with a high-end laminate. If you want something that will last foverer, pay a professional to install hardwood floors.
I have a +100 year old house and went with LVP because I more or less had to in terms of budget. The previous owners had installed VAT across the entire house and I had a contractor remove all of the asbestos. So I needed something inexpensive and quick to put down. Plus the floors are so uneven in the house that hardwood is not really an option without spending more to level the floors than I ended up spending on LVP. It has been more than two years and I have not had any issues really. I even ended up pulling all of the LVP that I had laid down at one point and was able to reuse about 90% of the full tiles, I didn’t even bother trying to save the ones that had been previously cut
I worked in full-service retail flooring for years, specifying many diverse products, but never the cheap ones. Landlords and house sellers insisted on cheap, but homeowners who wanted the truth spent much more and were satisfied even a decade later. Hardwoods that are properly finished will last 80 years, with screening and recoat every 20 or 30 years. DIY pre-finished wood planks, with miles of seams, are a problem, however, unless you edge-glue each joint during installation; this is how we did early-generation high-grade laminate flooring. These floors were genuinely indestructible in ordinary life. (HPL on HDF core), but where are they now? There's no money in indestructible, only in the "marry in haste, repent in leisure" mentality of consumerism. VISA cards cover everything!
What do you think of fossilized bamboo? For a comparable price to hardwood, but an increased water resistance has me intrigued as an option if I were to invest in higher quality flooring in the future.
Here in Europe this LVP product is relatively expensive.
Wooden laminate flooring made of high density fibreboard is cheaper and can easily last 10 years of family use. Best to install it with the thick 10mm LDF underfloor for maximum comfort and quiet.
I'm truly surprised by your experience with this because as a fellow Texan that's now remodeled nearly every room in my house I've used LVP for the kitchen, bathroom, and bedrooms. It's been 4-5 years now and I haven't had any issues with it. We have some minor traffic scratches developing in the bathroom but beyond that its been fantastic. For the most part I've been getting mine through Costco as they offer some decent looking planks at a relatively comparable price to specialty shops. Like all things in construction I'm willing to bet there are quality brands that last and 'budget' brands that are more likely to fail. I have seen a few versions at a friends prefab house where the top layer was much 'softer' than mine and I interpreted that as possibly a cheaper brand that GCs use. I think the key with this stuff is that your floor has to basically be perfectly flat. Some suggest that if you have more than a 1/4" deviation throughout the room, its going to fail. In your images with the chair it looks like you've got some dips in the floor, but your flooring looks ultra-thin so to your point, don't consider anything less than 6mm. For cracked foundations like we have in TX, prepping the floor with a leveling agent is a necessity.
I have had LVP on my kitchen floor for 8 years with no issues. The planks came with a 20-year warranty. I agree, don't buy the cheap stuff because it will break down, so go for a higher end. This means paying more but it's worth it.
I looked at LVP before deciding on engineered hardwood flooring. Even after five years, it's held up very well and it's easy to clean.
My son installed lvt in my bathroom 7 years ago. Zero experience. The tiles have held up beautifully. No buckling, etc. We bought it on sale at Menard's.
I did my daughter's bedroom with lvt 5 years ago; and it still looks great. I choose the brand/product line, and let my wife choose the pattern.
Last year I did the bathroom, this time I went to the store with her, planning on getting the same product. My wife incested on something else. We got her choice, it needs to be redone already.
I do plan on doing more Lvt as I can afford it, but I'm going back to that first brand. The product chosen makes a big difference.
As an architect and investor: I use thin glued vinyl-flooring or oak wood floor. Both is not really expensive, but durable.
I love this kind of honest review. As much as companies will point to installation failure, if the claim is truly DIY friendly there is obviously a problem.
I installed 1/4" luxury Vinyl plank in my bathroom with a cork back. I found it to be a great product. The tongue was very sturdy. I had to hammer in the planks with a rubber hammer and a block of wood. When it clicked into place it was very durable and water proof. To cut this product with a jigsaw. It was one of the many projects I have been doing after I lost my wife during COVID 4 years ago to keep busy in dealing with my loss after 32 years of marriage.
Sorry about your loss man!
I love my pergo laminate floors that I installed 13 years ago and still look like new.
Exactly why they do not sell it anymore. Lol.
Water damage. A stay I've cube can doom pergo flooring. 😢
@@DerekJFiedler I have not spilled too much on mine. But i imagine prolonged water to the under layer could hurt them
We covered our first floor with LVT 6 years ago. It has been great and even survived flooding from a leaking dishwasher. Maybe we lucked out (for a change) and picked a good brand. We had laminate in some rooms before that we hated. And we’re picky.
Took a scrap of lvp from home depot I submerge it in a bucket of water for 14 days and it was good as new. Crazy stuff
I appreciate this video so hard.
LVP in my house started cracking 6 months after installation. The subfloor is uneven but the contractors used LVP anyway. 2 years later, there are about 10 major spots of damage.
My only option now is to tape down the peeling material, fill the chips with filler, or get brand new floors.
Not really work replacing individual boards because new cracks are right around the corner.
I did a cheeky remodel of my rental room last year -> Decided to "splurge" on "Marmoleum Click", $6/sqft at the time, w/ cork underlayment.
It's absolutely perfect. Strong, EASY to install, "warm" on the feet.... with a little bit of common-sense caution, it's stayed flat, attractive, beautiful, hasn't buckled (10'x12' but still...), and has NO VOC SCENT AT ALL.
No way in absolute HADES am I EVER going to build a house out of high-VOC plastic.... and vinyl's at the VERY top of that Avoid List.
Plastic flooring it literally the polar opposite of "Luxury" -> It's a floor for the lowest-taste, lowest-quality, lowest-effort consumer 🤢
Not to sound like a commercial, but I've had great results using PERGO OUTLAST as my wood-based laminate flooring of choice. I was first drawn to the color choices and particularly the deep, ingrained texture on the topside which made it very NON-slippery to socked-feet. It also had a built-in foam backer for each piece so I knew it would be quiet on a wood subfloor. But before I purchased, I decided to give it a couple of important tests. Firstly, I soaked 2 small pieces in water for 24-hours. I pulled them out and attempted to mount them together and both pieces mated without issue, and there was no swelling in the pieces whatsoever. I was impressed so I gave it a second test. I took a phillips screwdriver and went to town (hard) on the top side attempting to simulate the wear that dogs with big claws might give it or humans moving furniture. I could not get it to significantly scratch. After purchase, it was simple to install with a circular saw and some tapping tools, and it still looks brand new 6 years later in my kitchen. I recommend it constantly to friends and family.
When I was a kid, we lived in a house that had particle board floors throughout. It was good quality particle board, and varnished a warm colour. So smooth and shiny! It was a damp part of the world, we had no heat in winter, but there were never any issues with the floors. I loved the look of it and would be partial to having that kind of flooring again if I ever get my own house.
I had a 200 gallon salt water aquarium burst and flooded my living area. I replaced the carpeting with a thick vinyl plank from a local flooring discount store. It was a DIY. There are some chips and a couple planks that have shifted and it looks dated. It's been 20 years now on those floors. I installed it in the kitchen (high water risk area), living room and dining room. First time ever installing flooring. It has held up extremely well. Of those 20 years of use, the first 5 had a pair of Rottweilers and two kids. The last 15 years were renters with pets.
I am starting a remodel/flip and will decide between LVT and Vinyl Planks. Cost and ease of installation will be the factor. I also installed LVT in a house in Hawaii as part of a remodel. It was the stiff version not the thin wavy strips. Looked nice.
I'm kind of surprised that you went for it in your own home given your background of careful research into materials. Maybe it's unreasonable to expect any flooring to be easy to install and require almost no maintenance while taking all the abuse life in a home will throw at it. We should all endeavor to be more comfortable with routine maintenance of things.
Anyway, maybe we can lobby these companies to stop making tacky fake wood. Let's get some fun designer patterns instead. It makes so much more sense to mimic mosaic tiles and marbles. If they want to produce a wood look, it should be in dimensions similar to a real hard wood so that the final appearance looks more realistic. Wood look LVP reminds me of wallpaper with a rough brick pattern. 😉
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I always use the thickest sheet vinyl flooring and cover the floor with no seams. We have 3 dogs and have never had a problem in any of our rooms that I installed it in. Anything that has seams in it is prone to separate or crack.
You left out bamboo, I put that in my condo and it’s perfect. And is far more renewable than wood and the many cases stronger.
In china they're selling SPC floor with fresh core and better bottom rubber while some are selling used/recycled ones with bad adhesion. Based on the color of your SPC, I believe you are using the cheaper one
I’m European. I have a house in Portugal. My principal residence is in Canada. If you want a proper floor, you need a proper subfloor that is level and flat. That’s the standard in European construction. In Canada, you must take the time and effort to level, flatten and ensure the proper deflection resistance level is met to make sure you have options like laying porcelain tile down. Many installers or builders will even lay high quality hardwood floors over floors that aren’t level, nor flat or have too much deflection without a care in the world. Then you as the homeowner get stuck with all the downsides. Just go the extra mile. Do it right. No one wants to because it’s a serious commitment to do it right. I always tell every trade I meet that tells me: “I’ve done it this way for years and never had a problem.” My reply: have you gone back to all those places after 5 years to see the problem you say you’ve never seen? . . . EXACTLY!
Thanks for the heads up! I'm curious what you are going to replace it with in your own home. Please give us an update!
All my apartment is covered on LVT, its heat neutral, its noise-dampening (the neighbor below doesn't hear a thing and I make a lot of noise), its easy to clean using water and detergent for example, it hasn't expanded or shrunk at all and it has been almost 15 years. The only problem is a light discoloration where the sunlight is constant, but nothing major and just on specific areas. At the time wasn't expensive and you can keep the tiles for years if you need to replace some.
One of the good points of this stuff is when it wears out (or gets wet due to say, a toilet leak) in three years you can gradually cycle it out in your trash bins! No cutting required. Just throw it away.
Mostly this stuff is good for installing, then throwing away!