I Talk About Violin Bows, Viola Bows and Cello Bows...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- Master Violin maker and restorer Olaf Grawert talks about bows...
Did you know that they used to be shorter? Find out about the history of violin bows, materials, parts, shapes and more...
Be fully informed when you buy your next instrument. Get Olaf's free 7 essentials when buying an instrument report here: olafgrawertviolinstudio.com/7...
00:00 Intro - skit
00:25 The parts
02:33 History of the Bow
11:55 Summary
#myviolinmaker, #olafgrawertviolin #violin
Website:
www.olafgrawertviolinstudio.com
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I’ve been cramming all week for my winter finals and the only time I feel like I can actually relax is when Olaf uploads :(( ty Olaf
I'll have to upload more 🙂
Good luck on your finals!
I also have my final exams but I am not in university so it is a lot harder for you. GOOD LUCK! if you studied then I know it will be good
@@JabafishThank you so much! I studied a lot, but I’m taking advanced classes so it’s very stressful. I hope you do well on your exams too!! And also I actually am in my second year of high school, what year are you in?
Olaf: the leather grip- which is very important because that's the area where you press with your thumb and index finger, and if you didn't have the leather grip…
Me: your thumb and finger would really suffer.
Olaf:...the bow would be worn quite quickly.
Me: I gotta get my priorities sorted and remember what's important here.
I actually have a permanent callus on my index finger... Not sure this is normal, though...
Haha... yes... that's what happens when you grow up with a violinmaker 😀
@@oliviapereira364 wait does that mean that you have like a bobble on your finger? because I have that too, and idk how to get rid of something like that
In my experience the modern bow's lyrical capability comes from the stick curving towards the hair, rather than away from as it is in baroque bows. The modern bow curve allows for weight to transfer to the strings more effectively. A teacher that had originally pointed that out to me said it was because the modern curve opposes hair tension, and the baroque curve reduces hair tension when more weight is put into the string. I don't know if that explanation is physically accurate or not, but it certainly lines up with how they feel. Totally different beasts. Playing baroque music on a baroque bow is an incredible experience.
Thanks for this nice little discussion Olaf. I never thought about the life expectancy of carbon fibre bows before. Excellent point.
I had a cheap bow when I started playing the violin, when I upgraded my bow, I was shock by how much the sound could change😍 🤩
i've been learning on a 20-ish year old bow that came with a $50ish violin. it still has *most* of the hair. looking at maybe upgrading to a $220ish set in the next few months and, while that's obviously not a lot either, I'm assuming my current violin is made with plywood and the bow is probably in the same category. i'm expecting even just having better strings, solid wood, and a NEW bow is going to be night and day in the sound quality, even as rough as i am
I just spent far too much time watching Sato play and ended up buying a baroque style bow for my new violin for £100 - I wasn’t expecting much, but I really like it. It feels much lighter n=and more deft and nimble than my old carbon fibre bow.
"Which is great, cause elefanths are beautiful". Cit. Olaf 2020
There's nothing wrong in taking ivory from elephants that died of natural causes, but I guess it was easier to ban it altogether to discourage pouching.
I could only afford cheap wooden bows that would warp when tightened, but for the past two years I’ve had a carbon fibre bow that has a good weight and balance for me. I did have to get it rehaired very soon after purchasing, because the hairs kept falling out! That wasn’t covered by warranty unfortunately. But after the rehair I have been happy with it.
Very informative, thank you!!!
Great lesson. When I started teaching classes in public schools in 1970 we were beginning to see student fiber glass bows. The early ones had a problem with the tip breaking too easily, not good with 9 - 12 year old beginners. They did get better and were much better than the cheap wooden bows on the market. Synthetic hair was beginning to be seen. The problem then was that it would not hold traditional rosin. The only rosin that worked was a spray-on that had its own problems. I also remember the introduction of carbon fiber bows and have seen that they have continued to improve. Your comments on ivory no longer being legal are appreciated. I also know that Pernambuco was, and still may be, in short supply. There were serious concerns not that long ago about its continued availability. I do enjoy your videos even though I am retired and a tuba player.
So bows are kind of like magic wands, huh? Special wood, ivory, gold, heart of a dragon, hair of a unicorn...
I'm a beginner violinist, playing for 6 months and loving it. I'm on my third bow, my first was the beginners bow that came with the violin. I quickly learned some of the shortcomings of that bow and replaced it with a $70 carbon fiber bow from a larger shop. Within two weeks the wedge started popping out when I tensioned the bow, their customer service was great but I was a bit disappointed to have that issue within two weeks of owning it, I was told to keep the bow incase I wanted to get it repaired and use it as a backup and they refunded it. I went to a local shop that has been around for years, I had trumpet lessons there way back in middle school. I asked if they had any bows in stock, they walked me up the stairs to a back room and rummaged through a top shelf and pulled down some bows. Most of them were in the $50-$60 range and I wasn't interested in one in that range, then from way at the back of the shelf we found a carbon one without a price on it. We take it down to look up the price and it was a over double what I was looking to spend, they said to give them an offer. So I offered what I was wanting to spend on a bow and we settled at about $20 more than I offered. The bow is by far the faster, lighter, and cleaner sounding of my bows. But, now I have another problem... my bow is worth quite a bit more than my beginner violin. Not a horrible problem, just motivates me to look at an intermediate violin sooner.
Also that $70 carbon has sat for the past five months until today, after watching your video with TwoSet on re-haring a bow I saw that it was a fairly easy fix. I shaped down a piece of scrap mahogany in my woodshop and made a new wedge, gave it a nice tap into place and viola... er violin, I can tension it and everything stays in place.
A huge thanks for being so supportive towards beginners, the information you share about violin construction and advice on things to look for is wonderful. We don't have any Luthiers (violin makers) around here so it is kind of difficult to pick their brains.
This was a wonderful and informative video. Thank you!!!
It took a year to find my violin. It's been 3 years and I still haven't found a bow. I was surprised at how difficult it would be to shop for. This Saturday my violin teacher is coming with me to a shop I haven't been in so it would be lovely if this could turn into something special.
Years and years in. Still not found the perfect bow and probably can't afford it... although I've got a pretty good carbon fiber now I like.
@@Jonathan-yr3so If you're replying to me that visit to the shop with my violin teacher ended up being the moment I bought my bow!
Elephants are beautiful but whales are beautiful too Olaf.
Great video as always! ❤ 👍
Someone once said to me that the violin bow is the tongue of the violin - I personally agree with that assessment 😺🎻👅
is that where the stories of licking the rosin come in? 🤪😉🤔
Great vid thank you Olaf. We were discussing this the other day.
Hi Olaf, nice to see you again.
Another excellent and informative video.
Cheers.
Fiber bows are good for beginner/student bows, practice bows and gig playing bows, good for electric violin as well. They can withstand more abuse and if they break no big loss. Wood bows do sound better. Brazil wood bows are a good buy and some are pretty good quality for the money. I have 2 old German bows and an English bow that needs re-hair. I also have 2 fiber bows that are worn out. Olaf if you wasn't so far away I would pester you daily! LOl just kidding thanks for sharing!!
once again, the double bass discrimination.. 💔 love the content nonetheless!
Sorry Pedro, I will try to do a Double Bass episode soon...
@@AskOlaftheViolinmaker it's fine! love the content 😁
Even the viola was considered!
@@AskOlaftheViolinmaker I just see my instrument as a large violin and that helps me apply what you talk about to my instrument.!
Since I live in Appalachia area of Kentucky.. they call it a bass fiddle :)
@@AskOlaftheViolinmaker everyone knows that the cello is the superior instrument of the violin family, being biased here since I'm a cellist, but... Kick out the viola and get the good ol bass I. Here!
I enjoy your videos so much
Hey Olaf, great video. I think it would also to be good to mention how endangered Pernambuco is.
In Portuguese, the name we use to the sound post is Alma, which is the Portuguese word for soul.
If the violin has a voice, I would say the bow is a tongue.
Could you make a video on setup? My local violin shop is still closed cause of covid and I don't know if my instrument has the best setup (soundpost placement, bridge placement, etc)
Olaf, would you give those of us with sweaty hands advice on how to care for the frog? I've never given it a lot of thought, but I'm purchasing a very nice bow that I particularly want to care for better and hope that I can prevent my sweaty fingers from ruining it. Thanks!
Hi Olaf! Are the windings on some bows made from stainless? If so, how is it attached at the end that's under the leather bit? I would really appreciate it if you could let me know please
I never realized how much difference a bow could make until my teacher let me try her bows.
(1) It was easier to play
(2) It made me sound better
So I went off and bought a student grade Dorfler (likely better than my $25 Chinese factory made Bow-Shaped-Objects).
Hi, Olaf! I'd love to know more about the difference in body&vibrating lengths of different violin models. I'm someone with small hands and I'm looking for a new violin that's smaller (but still full-size) so that I'm more comfortable playing. Thanks so much for these amazing videos!!
A 4/4 violin is supposed to be an exact size agreed on in the industry. You can sometimes find an old full size or one-off that is too small, but it's really hard to find anything new especially something affordable. And honestly I wouldn't try, you will train you hands to play on a violin size you may never encounter again. You should just learn on a real full size or accept your 3/4 fate
Gliga, the romanian violin builder, should have 7/8 violins e.g. for people with small hands. These 7/8 models are otherwise difficult to find. Try to contact the Gliga factory in Romania or ask a shop that sells Gliga...
Violin bows are so expensive. The only other similar thing that has a similar proportional price to the instrument that I can think of is a traditionally made shamisen bachi(plectrum). I have a friend who's a professional shamisen player in japan who told me he goes through a new bachi every year and they cost like 1 to 2 thousand dollars, when his shamisen itself was about 30k. It's like the equivalent paying $50-$100 for a guitar pick
a Brasil timber bow only lives 30 years, so they are all much cheaper than the Fernambuco bows? 30 years is a short life for an expensive music instrument.
An other questions, how long does it take to make a bow of highest quality and does the time of production stands in a relation to the price?
This upload can’t come at a better timing! I am just about to place an order for a 1/2 size carbon fibre Arcus S4 directly from Arcus in Germany. Good to hear another positive comment about performance of carbon fibre bows, especially coming from you. It gives me more confidence. Unfortunately, I am unable to test the bow, being not in Europe and there is no return policy. @Olaf, what do you think? Do you think it is a risky purchase?
How much does said bow cost?
@@Ava-cw3jf 924Euros before shipment and local taxes.
@@charleschia9642 hm, I personally wouldn’t take the risk. With no returns policy you could be throwing well over €1000 down the drain if you don’t like the bow. It’s really up to you but I wouldn’t.
@@Ava-cw3jf they’ve just agreed to the option to return, but all shipment and tax cost on me. At least that limits the damage if it does not work out.
@@charleschia9642 how much would shipping cost?
Moral of the story : don't buy BSO (bow shaped objects) !
I play on a sandalwood bow and really like it. I didn't hear you mention sandalwood. Is that just an American choice?
Iv'e just ordered a brazilwood bow and am new to this. How should I apply rosin and how much and when? Thanks in advance Olaf.
My violin and bow belonged to my grandmother, I think they date from the 30s. As far as I can tell the bow would be worth more than the violin (if I were to sell them, which I won't) Violin is unlabeled maggini copy with birds eye maple back (can't even work out if its french or german) and the bow is french (Laberte) needs a rehair though and there are no violinmakers/luthiers anywhere near me, so I play with a super cheap crap bow :(
Wow... how wonderful that you have your grandma's bow!
Yes that often happens. My guess is that your violin is from the Vogtland area in Germany. I have a beautiful Maggini copy with birdseye mapel at the moment. I haven't seen any French instruments using birdseye mapel.
Hope you ca find a good bow rehairer soon. It might be worth taking a trip.
@@AskOlaftheViolinmaker Wow, thanks for replying! :)
yeah, will have to go to Auckland or Wellington I think. Would love to come visit your shop sometime, but that is a pretty difficult thing right now, lol.
I did a kind of informal apprenticeship as a bookbinder, so watching videos of your shop reminds me a bit of that, all the tools and work in progress. Love the tiny plane you showed in a recent video, specialized tools are really cool :D
Thanks for the info on the violin also, I originally found info that maggini copies were made in Mirecourt, but in looking couldn't find any with birds eye maple either. But my research is limited to the internet, and not everything is on the net..
Is it common for luthiers of orchestral string instruments to be more proficient in one instrument? I find that luthiers who way they work on Violin, Viola, and Cello are hesitant or don't want to work on double basses. The same goes for bass bows as well. Is there more speciality learning for the bass/bass bows? Let me know when you can, thanks!
Caveat: I know very little about basses.
However, my understanding is that violin, viola, and cello are more similar to each other than any of them are to bass. I could be wrong about this, but I thought the bass was more closely related to baroque instruments like the viola de gamba/viol than the violin-family instruments. It's tuned in fourths, rather than fifths; different shape; different tuners; etc. Bass is an orchestral string, but it's not as similar to the others as it may at first appear. Perhaps that's why luthiers who work on the other three are hesitant to work on basses.
Can you just do the whole video as the curly purple hair guy? Do your characters have names?
some do, watch the older videos! 😄
If you remove the cost premium of a bow that comes from its age and collectability how do contemporary bows measure up against super high priced bows in terms of sound quality alone?
only the very best have both qualities of suppleness and strength... Benoit Rolland bows sound particularly mature.... generally antique bows have a more mature sound than new ones... just like most (not all) violins
Is there a big difference between violin and viola bows?
Olaf is there a difference in sound between white and black bow hair? As far as I've noticed it seems only Bass bows use black bow hair but why?
black hair is more coarse... okay for low register, and works well with the grip needed for the big fat strings that vibrate widely
Yes,
Black is a lot more gritty sounding. I have done rehairs for heavy metal violinists using black hair...
My favourite one was a 'zebra' rehairs I did for a metal player... one side white for smooth playing and other side black... it was a fun project.
Hello Olaf!. What do you think of alice brand violin strings? It's only 11 dollars but a lot of people said it sounds like obligato strings, should I try it?
And also
*e*
Probably you will like more the obligato. Man that violin is a relatively expensive things. Dont put cheap things on him.
I haven't heard of them... usually when it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
PIRASTRO who make the Obligato strings have over 200 years of string making experience... Aparently Paganini bought his strings there!
It's already 2 hours since i made that comment and i bought it and put it on a 160 dollar violin that i have and it sounds soooo much better tbh (my 160 dollar violin is from bogor Indonesia and bogor has a local brand of violins called vienna and it sells very good beginner violins for 60 - 160 dollars.)
newartikelfahmi.blogspot.com/2017/06/review-biola-merek-vienna.html
That website is in Indonesian but if you scroll down you can understand some words
I read Indonesian so I had a look at the website.
I have seen Alice strings in the Jakarta music shops. I haven't tried them but I once tried another brand at a similar price before I knew better and the sound was not good. On my present violin I have used Dominants and now Tonica. But if Alice is improving the sound of your violin that's what counts. I see on Tokopedia that Alice is about Rp 50K whereas Pirastro Tonica is about Rp 400K (and Obligato is Rp 1.5 million!) , so if Alice works for you that's a fantastic deal.
(Prelude: is about Rp 270K - could be a good compromise. )
Do you see many Hill/Yeoman viola bows?
I cannot find your carbon fiber bow in the online store only student ones. The app is not working very well on my Android phone🤔
1:25 Elephants are beautiful, that's why we use whale bones!
I was wondering, what effects do a warped bow have on the player or on bowing in particular? I have a bow that has warped to the right quite noticeably while loosened and gets worse when tightened, most answers I’ve seen are just to get it straightened or how to do it, but nothing really answers the why.
A bent bow will flex to the side and you basically loose downwards force. This means less control and sound.
I would reccomend getting it resprung.
@@AskOlaftheViolinmaker thank you!
1:15 - I have never seen a tip made from whalebone... sorry. The lapping, yes ,but not the tip. If you have sources, I will gladly read them!
I bought an old 3 star German bow. It has whale bone lapping . How old would that make it ? Estimate year ?
The bow chooses the player
with the big wallet ?
These exotic woods sound a bit expensive - what wood are cheaper (beginner, the under 100 GBP sort) violin bows made of?
At that price you’re better off getting a CF bow
if you are in China you can buy a very good carbon fibre bow with 50GBP
What is differences in violin and viola bow
The viola bow is typically slightly shorter, a little heavier, a little stiffer and has a little more hair. Viola bows often have a slightly rounded frog compared to the squarer violin frog.
I play with French bows... though I do own an HR Pfretzchner. I did like your video, but I am not a fan of Carbon Fibre bows ; they have no body of sound. Thanks
6 grams of different and it gets a feather rating!
Why is a frog called a frog?
A fool and his money are soon parted, my Father used to say.😂
i heard some people were talking about me
I just want to know why Olaf has so many wigs