"The turning points should be emotional for the protagonist" This perfectly encapsulates the issue with many modern movies; it's not that they are formulaic because they follow a well known structure like the hero's journey (as many people want to claim), it's that they feel hollow, episodic and contrived, with passive protagonists that don't have a compelling motivation that drives the plot. This explains "superhero fatigue" and "Star Wars fatigue" at the box office. Structure needs to come organically out of the character and what they want/need and their interactions with the other characters. And then in a later draft, the writer can worry about hitting beats in a certain order, and adjust their plot for maximum impact. Of course, the writer can still use whatever formula to help them outline or finish the first draft if they want.
I always think of the analogy of learning to play guitar -- you have to learn the chord structures and where your hand goes first before you can write a song or even play well. Once that becomes second nature you can start to think more about how they go together in a harmonious way / pattern -- and then expressing yourself through that structure only happens when you no longer have to think about it.
Walter White is a great example. He always had pride and an ego but it took lung cancer for him to embrace these traits as opposed to suppressing them.
I like how Cody explains that while structure matters, storytelling is not about formulas. I think what really engages us about stories is that they are, on some level, about making emotionally satisfying arguments. It's what makes a story, even if it's fictional, ring true. Even the simplest plots have this. The argument of a slasher film could be about the best way to get away from a serial killer. Say the characters who try to run away end up dead, but those who confront the killer end up winning the battle, you have essentially made the argument that "in order to survive an attack by a serial killer, one must confront them".
I don't necessarily _want_ to see a character's journey be about _them_ changing. I don't necessarily _want_ their struggle to be internal and personal. Sometimes, I just want a rip-roaring adventure where what changes _is the world around the protagonist,_ with them as the catalyst. I actually roll my eyes and think, "Oh, _this_ again! Oy vey..." when the character's journey is the same journey from the last dozen-plus movies. Oh, look...the protagonist doesn't believe in themselves. **rolls eyes** Like I haven't seen _that_ before. Oh, look...the protagonist is an orphan who doesn't belong. **rolls eyes** Been there; done that. ...and so on. Oh, look...someone who might survive or might not is giving a heartfelt speech about how much they care about the protagonist. **rolls eyes** Anybody wanna hazard a guess at that character's life expectancy? Oh, look...that secondary character we've known was a dick this whole time is about to betray everybody and be hoist by their own petard. **rolls eyes** Didn't see _that_ coming. _Merciful Zeus,_ Hollywood has gotten so trite and predictable. It's like they're just _begging_ for TVTropes and CinemaSins to rip 'em a new one! I like a good journey as much as anybody, _but it doesn't always have to be about personal growth!_ **rolls eyes**
Exactly! I don’t remember Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark defining his needs versus his wants, and going through a character arc to heal his inner wound! No, I just remember a rip-roaring adventure!!
@@somethingintheair5373 It is so funny you say that, because after I finished my reply and thought about it for a few seconds more, Indiana Jones was _exactly_ the example that popped to mind! :)
Just about to say the same thing. Bond at the start of Goldfinger isn't a different person from the man at the end of From Russia With Love. Real Bond might get momentarily sad that someone has died in the course of a story but that hasn't changed him fundamentally. It used to be common for the protagonists of TV series not to fundamentally change over the course of a hundred episodes. There was no plot/character arc over a season, you could show most episodes in any order and no one would notice. Jessica Fletcher doesn't have dark nights of the soul surrounded by empty whisky bottles. She is naturally a little more worldly-wise in episode 264 than she was in episode one, but she hasn't become a dominatrix or a serial killer herself. Is a character arc fundamental for many stories? Of course. Can it enrich many others? Yes. Is it fundamental for all engaging stories? No. The now apparently compulsory character arc gets in the way of telling a lot of stories and hampers writers. I have no doubt that many scripts get rejected because indoctrinated gatekeepers at production companies can't tick the "Character arc" box.
So you like plot-driven stories, eh? They can be good. And you're tired of developing characters to change, so you'd like to see characters undergo a flat arc? That can also work as well.
Yes. Structure creates a mapped baseline for emphasizing the ideas there to a greater extent when the creativity is brought into it. And they can also change as well.
Yes!! I love the way she explains things, it's like she's talking directly to me about my story. Are you guys going to upload the rest of the interview?
Got a question for anyone who can help me out here: Been pondering uploading to the backlist to see what kinda scores I could pull. I noticed a lot of the winners and ones who placed have camera angles and movement throughout. They’re not fully shooting scripts either, just heavy use of camera direction. I was under the impression that would be almost disqualifying for new writers…. Is this a sign that the industry standard is becoming more free and open to interpretation? Or is the black list kind of a One-Off? Appreciate any feedback
"The turning points should be emotional for the protagonist"
This perfectly encapsulates the issue with many modern movies; it's not that they are formulaic because they follow a well known structure like the hero's journey (as many people want to claim), it's that they feel hollow, episodic and contrived, with passive protagonists that don't have a compelling motivation that drives the plot. This explains "superhero fatigue" and "Star Wars fatigue" at the box office.
Structure needs to come organically out of the character and what they want/need and their interactions with the other characters. And then in a later draft, the writer can worry about hitting beats in a certain order, and adjust their plot for maximum impact. Of course, the writer can still use whatever formula to help them outline or finish the first draft if they want.
I always think of the analogy of learning to play guitar -- you have to learn the chord structures and where your hand goes first before you can write a song or even play well. Once that becomes second nature you can start to think more about how they go together in a harmonious way / pattern -- and then expressing yourself through that structure only happens when you no longer have to think about it.
Walter White is a great example. He always had pride and an ego but it took lung cancer for him to embrace these traits as opposed to suppressing them.
WW gave his gifts away in his youth, cancer made him to be a man to fight for his needs
I like how Cody explains that while structure matters, storytelling is not about formulas.
I think what really engages us about stories is that they are, on some level, about making emotionally satisfying arguments. It's what makes a story, even if it's fictional, ring true.
Even the simplest plots have this. The argument of a slasher film could be about the best way to get away from a serial killer. Say the characters who try to run away end up dead, but those who confront the killer end up winning the battle, you have essentially made the argument that "in order to survive an attack by a serial killer, one must confront them".
I don't necessarily _want_ to see a character's journey be about _them_ changing. I don't necessarily _want_ their struggle to be internal and personal.
Sometimes, I just want a rip-roaring adventure where what changes _is the world around the protagonist,_ with them as the catalyst.
I actually roll my eyes and think, "Oh, _this_ again! Oy vey..." when the character's journey is the same journey from the last dozen-plus movies.
Oh, look...the protagonist doesn't believe in themselves. **rolls eyes** Like I haven't seen _that_ before.
Oh, look...the protagonist is an orphan who doesn't belong. **rolls eyes** Been there; done that.
...and so on.
Oh, look...someone who might survive or might not is giving a heartfelt speech about how much they care about the protagonist. **rolls eyes** Anybody wanna hazard a guess at that character's life expectancy?
Oh, look...that secondary character we've known was a dick this whole time is about to betray everybody and be hoist by their own petard. **rolls eyes** Didn't see _that_ coming.
_Merciful Zeus,_ Hollywood has gotten so trite and predictable. It's like they're just _begging_ for TVTropes and CinemaSins to rip 'em a new one!
I like a good journey as much as anybody, _but it doesn't always have to be about personal growth!_ **rolls eyes**
Absolutely agree.
Writing is a balancing act.
Keep the viewer engaged and have something to say about something, anything.
Exactly! I don’t remember Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark defining his needs versus his wants, and going through a character arc to heal his inner wound! No, I just remember a rip-roaring adventure!!
@@somethingintheair5373 It is so funny you say that, because after I finished my reply and thought about it for a few seconds more, Indiana Jones was _exactly_ the example that popped to mind! :)
Just about to say the same thing. Bond at the start of Goldfinger isn't a different person from the man at the end of From Russia With Love. Real Bond might get momentarily sad that someone has died in the course of a story but that hasn't changed him fundamentally.
It used to be common for the protagonists of TV series not to fundamentally change over the course of a hundred episodes. There was no plot/character arc over a season, you could show most episodes in any order and no one would notice. Jessica Fletcher doesn't have dark nights of the soul surrounded by empty whisky bottles. She is naturally a little more worldly-wise in episode 264 than she was in episode one, but she hasn't become a dominatrix or a serial killer herself.
Is a character arc fundamental for many stories? Of course. Can it enrich many others? Yes. Is it fundamental for all engaging stories? No. The now apparently compulsory character arc gets in the way of telling a lot of stories and hampers writers. I have no doubt that many scripts get rejected because indoctrinated gatekeepers at production companies can't tick the "Character arc" box.
So you like plot-driven stories, eh? They can be good. And you're tired of developing characters to change, so you'd like to see characters undergo a flat arc? That can also work as well.
Was this video satisfying?
Yes
Yes
Yes. Structure creates a mapped baseline for emphasizing the ideas there to a greater extent when the creativity is brought into it. And they can also change as well.
Yes!! I love the way she explains things, it's like she's talking directly to me about my story. Are you guys going to upload the rest of the interview?
A thousand times yes!
Got a question for anyone who can help me out here:
Been pondering uploading to the backlist to see what kinda scores I could pull. I noticed a lot of the winners and ones who placed have camera angles and movement throughout. They’re not fully shooting scripts either, just heavy use of camera direction.
I was under the impression that would be almost disqualifying for new writers…. Is this a sign that the industry standard is becoming more free and open to interpretation? Or is the black list kind of a One-Off?
Appreciate any feedback
fantastic thanks
This is inspiring me
I accomplished a journey in my first screenplay, I just don't know if I've done it in the best way possible.
You asK brilliant Questions and I love that about You! ❤ ❤ ❤
I hope you can talk with Chris Gore about his Star Wars trial. 😂
Should movies be dubbed with vocal fry for LA audiences?
😅 Maybe sooner, rather than later, AI will actually tweak it for every individual audience member. Including different languages...
Does James Bond arc, change etc? Not at all. That statement about change being an absolute must is formulaic nonsense.
Who's we? I don't need a journey, I want just to be entertained. Characters are overrated.