$200 wall of SPEAKERS!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2022
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I’d be down for a part 2
Definitely
I need a part 7 or im unsubbing
you really need to minimize anything attached to those panels, having four mounts on each one will ruin their sound, i recommend using the smallest possible attachment method you can, i used some nails and twine and only had them mounted to two points, also i would recommend using much thicker sheets. the wall of sound i go out of just two rather large thick sheets of XPS was stunning.
I swear audiophiles will never be satisfied with anything.
@@abdulhfhd This is true. But with these stype of “speakers” you have to think of the panel as the driver cone so you want to minimise anything that touches it as the whole thing vibrates so any additional mass or anchor points actually stop it from being able to move air
@@abdulhfhd your not wrong, but i think thats kinda the point. Forever exploring, looking for more, and how to better the things that you already have.
Its the other end of the musical spectrum. Musician perfect their technique, audiophiles perfect how they listen that technique. Or they at least try to perfect it
Yes, please explore this topic more, larger panels for bass, hang with fishing line at the top only, ???.
I'm new to your change and having fun banging your content.
4 Stars
Dayton themselves have an excellent guide to building and mounting DML speakers, and some of the suggested mounts make a lot of contact with the panel. Tech Ingredients put them on the map for me, but Dayton know more about how to do it right.
6:03 really scared the crap out of me xD
And a part 2 would be amazing!
I literally jumped because I thought someone was behind me
@@nabronator374 Me too... man, I just paused the video and taking a breather right now.
That was just mean. There should at least be a visual warning ahead of time. People are going to break stuff when jumping out of their chair, bed or whatever.
This is highly specific, technical, absurd, and amazing. I’m only a novice when it comes to audio, but this is the kind of stuff I like about your channel, DMS. Prior to this, I never would have even thought this could be done. I can’t wait to see what other shenanigans you get up to.
These types of videos are so entertaining to watch, keep em comin‘!
Well done DMS
Wow, big props to you for taking on this unique project. I was very impressed by your testing methods and deduction process in making it all come together. Cool video man! A part 2 would be fun to watch!
Hell yea do a part 2 for this show.
ABolutly down for a part 2. this was brilliant!
I would love to hear more low extension. but obviously it wont be like in person.
Awesome work and actually quite inspiring.
while traveling some 20 years ago now I remember making speakers out of paper plates.. xD
I have always wanted to expand on that.. here you ar doing it for me! Thanks
Such a cool project man. Probably the best (and funniest) video you've ever done.
Hi please try this: 2pcs of 40x60x1cm 70 grade EPS(not XPS) board in 2.1 channel. Sand the surface then brush coat with 50/50 PVA/water. XO with a sub at 250hz. Cut off the exciter's frog legs just use the voice coil ring to attach. Free hanging the panel instead of mount. Or welcome to diyAudio there is a thread over 300 pages about DML.
fascinating how warm they are. thank you
This is cool as hell. The wall lives!
I like the idea of messing with this. I wonder if pitching any angles to the outer speakers to tow them in would add a desired effect. Also, on a nerd level, would love to see the cable management/amp setup in more detail. This is cool. Would love to see more.
Made these flat panel speakers with a 2x2 project panel and hooked it to a home theater system. The receiver when it did it’s auto tune showed almost completely flat EQ adjustment and had to turn them down. They are the best speakers I’ve heard when you pair them with a sub and considering they cost me
@ericwheelhouse4371 I'm interested in using them in a home theater setup as well! Did you follow the video briefly referenced in this one (I forget the name of the other channel)?
Hey, DMS, have you ever thought about how to create great sound in a camper van? Your designs of unconventional, budget sound system make me think this might be an intriguing problem for you. I'd love to hear your thoughts and put them to good use! Thank you for providing such excellent content!
That's really neat and I'd like to see what you can do with a part 2.
Great job. Beautiful work
That thing is really fricking awesome… it looks absolutely astonishing and sound absolutely okay.
Damn I want this in my room T.T
3 groups of 4 panels. Each group would be series parallel to get 8 ohms. Left, center, right set up. Add a sub, maybe surrounds.
this is awesome i like the new creative direction of the videos i just subbed the video
wonder if you can do atmos with those types of speakers
I tried this in late 2019! Fun little experiment that took forever to get right. After a lot of tinkering I had my tiny concert hall. I took it apart and went back to my triangle speakers 😂. It was 100% worth the 80$ and time invested.
thats pretty cool.
i like the method you used for tuning.
i still run car subs for my bass.
This is a great video.. and a LOT of editing !
Bruh when you talked into my right ear I almost went into fight or flight scared the bujeezus outa me LOL
hahaha binaural recording rigs are wild
Go ahead and do the part 2. I'm here for it
Yes please for part 2
dope idea 💡 love the shirt
It looks amazing
Having fun adding similar panel to my existing kef speakers and thanks I've had play with dsp but loved every second when i kick the panels in Ive a got a ultra wide sound stage and for live gig recordings its become so much more immersive thankyou so much love the chanel amd ta also I'm a builder and those cheap jbl tune are perfect good sound and virtually disposable paid £30 sealed in uk! Ta agin
Cool project! Nice.I like that stuff.
Sounds awesome, would love to compare this to a full Magnepan LRS setup in terms of cost and sound quality. If it costs half and sounds good, then awesome. If it just gives that type of sound and is better than anything else at the same price, then still amazing.
This is the type of audiophile maker project that very few creators can do, you being one of them. Would love more content on this, I wouldn't even mind paying for the detailed plans if its a reasonable cost.
This build is about $200 if you don’t count the amps or DSP
@@DMS3TV As I see it, the DSP device is pretty much critical, and amps we would need with a speaker anyway, though that amp would likely still be cheaper than a Schiit Vidar + a preamp that is the minimum good amp required for the Magnepans.
So in the end, I guess this project would cost $500-900 cheaper than a Magnepan LRS setup after factoring in speakers + necessary amps for both options, and the DSP for this DIY option, with the tradeoff being it probably won't sound as good as the LRS, though maybe with more tuning of materials etc., it could MAYBE sound as good, and its not as easily to setup or move to another house.
I'm still super interested in this project, and I'm still considering with this idea.
I've always been really fascinated with these kinds of speakers. watching this really makes me wanna try this with like WAY more, smaller panels and try some kind of Wave Field spatialization
If they were different sizes you could use the different resonate frequencies of each S/M/L panel to favor bass, mids, and highs before crossing over and DSP'ing.
There is no need for different size of pannels. The way DML speakers work is that there is no advantage of smallers panels. A bigger panel can acchieve lower frequencies, without compromise in high frequencies.
@@3rdHalf1 Thanks, that's interesting. I guess I assumed that the added mass would impede the action in the highs, but add surface area aiding the lows. I'd like to get around to experimenting with them someday... but I have too many concurrent eccentric projects in motion. Lol 😆
And I think my next audio project will most likely be planar oriented or even maybe a hybrid planar-linear driver.
@@VIDEOAC3D
Fundamentally DML’s work diferently than cone speakers.
Cone speakers move air with the cone moving back and forwards. To get lower frequencies - you need bigger speaker cone. But bigger speaker cone has more mass, that is harder to move in higher frequencies.
DML speakers vibrate the surface of speaker in all frequencies at once, that total average the frequency you hear(This is why DML speakers don’t have feedback with live microphones). To achieve lower frequencies, DLM speakers need bigger cross-section of surface(example: 1 square meter panel of 50x200cm. will be able to reproduce lower frequencies than 100x100cm panel). With the right materials(best materials are honeycomb cardboard, and carbon fibre panels) , there is no difference in high frequency reproduction between big and small panels. The bottle-neck is that to achieve lower frequencies the size of panels have to increase exponentially. And for sub-frequencies this becomes impractical, hence you need a woofer with DML speakers.
Another quick note: To get mo-powa out of DML speakers you don’t need more powerful exciters - you just need more of them mounted on same surface.
Love the concept as its something I wanted to attempt myself. I'm sure the thicker foam board might sound better. Also, less mounting allowing more movement.
This channel is an entire rabbit hole I definitely didn't have time for today 😂
It goes so much farther 😅 the science is fun but never ends.
OMG when you spoke into the right of the 'head' at the end of the demo I thought someone was actually talking to me in my room!
Very interesting. What I really would love to see is the end result of the RB42 array. Even if fewer speakers. I would imagine some comb filtering issues would arise... maybe. I could see the RB42s lined up like a concert array horizontally.
Now I want to hear two opposing walls of speakers, for left and right channels.
OK now we need just an entire wall to be one giant hidden speaker using this technique
sick project!
I have a pair with the acoustic ceiling tiles in my bathroom and I use a line level input subwoofer with high pass that goes to wall speakers with bass handles by the powered sub. Sub is a Goodwill find ($20) and helps a lot. As the wall speakers in my setup are full range, removing the bass is important. Good luck
Truly becoming a Speaker Elitist
Keep going!!
I've actually listened to such a DIY wall speaker and I love the wide sound they make. They need tuning, but they reproduce the frequencies in an unsaturated way while it feels like normal speakers become overwhelmed and is so narrow in comparison. Regular speakers simply cannot make this sound, at least none of the ones I've heard even come close to coming close.
Like I said, they need tuning and might benefit from complementary speakers, as well as a different material for mid-range, but it's pretty cool stuff and I feel like there's a lot of potential here if it's done right from start to end. The experience is just so satisfying.
It also lends itself well to certain instruments that it reproduce quite convincingly. They have this ring to them that certain instruments have as well.
I want to see what the actual potential is. The ones I heard had issues, no DSP and no mid-range companion wall speaker means it's far from perfect, but still pretty exciting to listen to. I just can't stop wondering how they'd sound if they were tuned and not mashed together for a quick fun project without DSP etc.
Part 2?
scared me at the right ear part
I would really like to see what you can do with the xps pink foam board. Starting with a single large piece per side and multiple exciters. THEN cutting down the large piece into smaller sections with 1 or 2 exciters per panel. Comparison of DSP settings and output along the way would be very interesting. I also have a theory that an oval would be the most ideal shape, so maybe thats the last test.
Thanks for your exploration!
ey yoo i made a pair of those one time out of XPS foam from home depot. awesome to see this catching on
I would suggest that the two panels closest to the middle be the only ones to have the treble - they can carry just the treble but could also do the mids up through the treble. Then the panels above and below those two can do just the midrange - this acts like an MTM. And then I would do the outside columns for the bass. So, either a 3-way system, or a 2.5-way system.
Either way, you'll need 3 stereo amps, obviously. The two treble panels can be 8 ohm, the two midrange can be 4 ohm, and the 3 bass panels can be 2.66 ohm - IF they are actually 8 ohms. This would make them louder, and the amp could be chosen to work with this.
this would be really cool to see as an atmos setup if you can use each panel as 1 source
6:46 "I saw this, and was immediately like _YES. YES. I NEED THAT."_
Sadly, I don't see it on their site now, a year later. Alas and woe.
Regardless: _Salut_ for committing full-sail to building that whole wall. I've never been a Pink Floyd person, personally, but you can now replicate their Wall of Sound effect in the privacy of your very own homely hovel. _Achievement Unlocked._
The cost of the DSP is neatly not mentioned. A for effort, C for research. Two rather large panels
would serve just as well. You captured some significant DO NOT DO THIS constraints.
- panel stiffness
-panel resonance due to corners
- exciter placements
- panel "mounting compliance
- complex panel suspension
Other wise good job.
Would love a Part 2! Maybe test other speaker materials? Even if you consider foamboard the best option, I'm sure there are some hilarious alternatives! Maybe consider an outer coating, if someone wanted to add artistic flair to those panels.
I got so carried out by the audio that i forgot it was binaural audio, so when you spoke i literally jumped up off my seat thinking it was somebody in the room.
I enjoyed this video. It made me laugh and smile❤️😍
I've had the same idea years ago but I suck at building stuff. Good job!
Now what I want you to do is to use this setup to RECORD something, maybe yourself playing a musical instrument, but using these panels AS MICROPHONES. Then play it back.
Does the playback sound more three dimensional and accurate? (I'm talking here about having the musician be in the exact same place, with the exact same room acoustics on the playback as the microphone placement. The point is to have your speakers reproduce the placement of the mics, to give a, hopefully, better effect of realism.)
Can you try that? Pretty please?
Are the reflections from the wall behind the panels not interfering with the sound since the panels vibrate both ways? What would change if you put acoustic panels behind?
So here's the thing. These things are not uniformly dipoles. The membranes jiggle like jelly so they have some monopole component to them. Either way there is a reflection and it does interfere, but their forward projection has already so much linear distortion, that it doesn't make them worse, just different kind of bad. However it's just linear so it can be fixed with EQ. Of course not all of it, but you can get it roughly to shape. This way you get a decent and practical speaker for not a lot of money. Just not decent in a HI-Fi kind of way. They have moderate to high nonlinear distortion. In a conventional hifi driver the nonlinearities mostly come from the motor and suspension, because the diaphragm is so well designed. Here you get distortion from the motor and from the panel. Luckily the pleasure from audio is not just hifi, but also from learning different kinds of sound and this method has it's own signature.
@@rhalfik Okay, interesting, what kinds of speaks are considered dipoles then?
Wow, that is bazar! liked of course.
What sub did you use and how did the crossover look when you were done?
I have some Exciters. For pure fun. They are great. The sound they produce is about as good as it gets for creating a wall of sound, that somehow sounds extremely directional and omnidirectional at the same time. Its the same sorta intimacy you get from headphones, but from in front.
I'd love to hear a follow up. (WITH GRAPHS!). Maybe back the wall with some mineral wool to eliminate the intrinsic echo off the drywall? Or follow up with Tech Ingredients and use XPS foam instead of foam board, and use ones of different size to get rid of the resonance issues.
Want to see a home theater that uses this concept.
Part 2please !!!! I bought 12 of these 2 years ago. I plan on making a similar wall in my home gym after construction has been completed. I did not think of needing a dsp.
Not going to lie, have no idea how I ended up in this corner of the internet on an ADHD rabbit hole but even the fact I'm now considering expensive headphones or crazy DIY projects is impressive. Love the detailed content and fun physics experiments!
This is very cool.... but I'd like to see a Wall of Waffles as the next project. 🧇
I built a 5.1 system with dml. Use greater distance from the wall. Minimum 20cm. Much better bass.
DMS: "Hello in you right ear here"
Me: Jump scare to the ceiling holding on to my dear life.
After seeing many videos on this topic the main question to me is, what is gonna be their purpose? As a stand alone system (with a subwoofer) it probably needs a lot of tinkering and wall surface. As a supporting system with some decent speakers hooked up to a TV it may just turn your living room into a more cinematic experience without the need for an immense wall.
Just trying to get the utmost out of this system might result in a setup that may be reasonably cheap but highly impractical for most homes. That being said, I'd still be very interested in the latter. The former use however would be something I can imagine many people would be interested in for more practical use.
Soooo........YES, PLEAAASE do at least one other video on this. My brain is still flooded with questions about this system.
I do still think attaching the system to the wall via the exciters should be beneficial to the output of the panels. And I wonder how a guitar shaped panel with dual exciters would perform....
Anyhow, I really enjoyed your video. Don't stop having fun!
If theres anything I know about Hi-Fi equipment it is that gold plating equals premium. Gold plate the foam boards, gold plate the rubber bands, gold plate the mount and dont forget to gold plate the drywall.
great vid !!
Part 2 - Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into surround sound 4 wall massive speaker setup. Pinpoint Cabal footsteps on Mars and click heads like a pro gamer. Make Commander Zavala proud Guardian!
I like the idea. The damping support is ... to be improved. I think directional control dampening should improve the results. You can used something like cast neoprene to ensure consistency and at the same time target the vibrations per square or location.
Good lord …that’s going to be spectacular 😳
let's get that part 2
I think the placement of supports on the foam board would introduce modes . I'd say it was best to hang from string on roof. I'd also say driver placement needs to be randomise across panels? You'd have to do allot of individual matching though..
Im really intrigued by this idea and consider building something like this but I wonder... How far from the wall do the drivers have to be? Could you also mount them horizontal and downfacing? (While having good sound) Im thinking of a ceiling hung version with some big and some small panels (for optimal low and high frequencies) that would be basically invisible.... Would love to get your thoughts on these ideas☺️ or any audiophile for that matter (everyone feel invited)
Very cool project. What was the driving inspiration? It is a neat use of a wall. My impression of the sound was big and soft on details, but very listenable.
I am gobsmacked by how good they sound ( at least through YT). I wonder if round panels would make much difference.
Nice... Home... Theater sound system. ✨✨👏👏
I'd want to see different materials used in part 2. What if you used wood instead of foam, I feel like that would help with the treble issue.
The tech ingredients related video series.
1. th-cam.com/video/zdkyGDqU7xA/w-d-xo.html
2. th-cam.com/video/CKIye4RZ-5k/w-d-xo.html
3. th-cam.com/video/GslJ8Hf4WwE/w-d-xo.html
You scared the hell out me when you said "hello in your right ear"
First thought: That's a horrible idea, you'd put in so much effort into making them still sound subpar.
But then I thought, hold on- Assuming your primary speaker setup is elsewhere and you just use this for ambience, it probably can do a pretty good job at that. I imagine I'd have one of those 10 hour rainforest sound videos playing on those all day.
What about dampening the wall behind the speakers to reduce comb filter effect?
I love the sound of mine ! And I only have 2 2ft x 4fts. Will be making 2 more when I get time. YES, VERY EXPANSIVE !!
i want to see you do the same thing with proper foam panels or ceiling tiles, and the rounded shapes. id really like to see a room done with atmos and spherical coverage with separate channels. maybe a collab with zeos since hes crazy enough to help with something like that.
That’s a scam don’t message it
That's a pretty cool project, would you make the plans for it available so people can tinker with it ?
Maybe for part two, you can replace the front wall drywall with a fabric wrapped floor to ceiling rockwool panel/wall. The response difference would be very interesting.
This could be so cool in a home cinema to achieve a massive sound stage. It might be worth looking at using smaller pieces of foam board for a "tweeter" and then having larger piece as the "woofer"
Thanks good vid😎😎 Bigger panels in addition would help. What was the music please?
FAN-TASTIC!!!!👍🏽
Thats a very cool proyect indeed. I would assume there is just too massive of a bracket attached to the thin sheets and probably are modifying a LOT of the sound (not much because of the weight as they are 3d printed, but the square shape and the size). Maybe something smaller like a plastic nail or some zipties directly onto the sheet.
Impressive por 200$
You definitely haven’t fully watched Tech Ingredients’ videos on the sound panels, they described the exact issues you came across with different frequencies being more aggressive, and they recommend making multiple unique panels that specialize. To more evenly cover the frequency spectrum.
those things seem like a super cool option as Dolby Atmos ceiling channels
I wonder if you replaced one treble panel on each side with a different material would you get more detail? Maybe a metallic or acrylic panel?
May I suggest you watch the second video on those speakers and the choice of materials. In that video he does say that they found that foam is possibly the worst material to use and that a mix of materials will produce a better sound. And he talks about placement of the exciter to prevent resonance.
I did watch that, and followed the recommendations accordingly. This material contains foam but also a hard outer surface. I tried plastic and varying wood panels also.
@@DMS3TV Did you see the video where he suggests that the best material was fibrous ceiling panels
@@jvebarnes it ends up they aren’t. No matter what material you use they still have a very very narrow-band response.
Please try using different materials, by using the same material you are making the same sound but louder, by introducing different materials you will achieve the best sounding speakers ever, materials such as Balsa wood, plexiglass, aluminium, birchwood, you will greatly improve the overall sound by far.😊 Keep up the exciting work.
would love to see a part 2! is it worth it to actually setting this up if you only have a limited amount of money?
That’s a scam don’t message it.
Good traditional speakers are better, but you could build 2 panels and EQ it super cheap to sound great
Less panels, but larger may help. Also makes it less complex with needing less exciters
Interesting ideas
Yes full exploration dsp video
do more videos like this
would be cool if you recreate the speakers exactly like techingredients did, and give some more technical information, data, and measurements on why you say they are not the best, and what would be the alternative.
vs. throwing shade intro