Yeah maybe they neck will never bend but what people also use truss rods for is too set it up for their taste. Or if they change their mind and want it either dead straight or with a little more relief.
Really liked how you describe the difference in quality between an acoustic and electric. It's exactly how I feel when playing. Acoustic is sound and purity, electric response and flexibility of shaping a tone.
Dude. Rhett is big time and this is gonna make the channel blow… hell, it’s gonna make the business blow. Chris, you and Matt are about to hit big time for sure. Good times.
Rhett is going to LOVE that guitar. I’m thinking a “perfect storm” in that he has been forced to not play for a few weeks then gets this guitar just in time to play again. I can’t wait to see what happens.
I think these innovations are great and add a lot of knowledge to the luthier craft but I'm still hard pressed (after much research that has already been done) to see if anyone can pass a blind A vs B comparison test of different neck joints. Even with access to a high resolution waveform to accompany the sound files people can't consistently tell them apart.
The electronics are important. They are the ones interacting with the strings mainly not the wood. Tonewood is only true for acoustics. At least people with normal hearing usually can't pick it in a blind test. And even the ones who say they can only notice a slight difference mainly in sustain.
If the "dogbone system" were also made out of carbon material, it would potentionally contribute to resonance over an ever bigger surface area. In addition, problems in the surrounding wood, due to moisture changes could also be minimized. However, I`m not familiar in all of this and may be too diffecult to realize or too expensive...It`s only a thought twist that could possibly contribute.
Probably the most standout guitar vid I’ve seen in memory. As a woodworking hobbyist, I love that you’re building instruments with new joinery techniques. Edit: Then I got to the truss rods. Bravo 👏
Your scientific explanation of what an electric guitar has, is pretty much spot on..could be summed up in one word! Soul! An electric guitar is almost alive, especially when plugged into an amp. Nice video man. Love the innovation.
As I've been learning composites (building and load testing structures), I've found that failures in load tests can be more instructive than the successes, and lead us into better design and building of parts. With Pandemic Pause 2020, I decided to begin my guitar journey (Taylor Academy 12, Breedlove, Ibanez semi-hollow for the variety), and with the recent landing of an Angel 2EC-RDBL built in Melbourne of Australian woods by Cole Clark Guitars, my first all-solid wood guitar of Spanish heel (through neck) construction. Guitarist friends and mentors are "Wow!" as it really sings. Thanks for the mention of Dragonplate, as yesterday I held a sample piece of carbon fiber rebar (for concrete work), and another local precast company carries fiberglass rebar.
Also, have you tested the neck joint through multiple wet/dry cycles? I would worry a little about differential swelling in the dogbone causing the neck pocket to split if it is exposed to high humidity and then to very dry air (such as a flight from Florida to San Diego)
I see your line of thinking, but when I analyze your conclusion of ending in the wood splitting, notice that both the male and female dog bones are made out of wood and should have a similar if not identical coefficient of thermal expansion. So swelling and drying should occur at the same rate.
@@StevenFines13147 I agree. To reach my conclusion of the joint's reaction to changing environmental conditions, I am assuming the two species of woods of both the male and female portions of the "dogbone" joint to be similar if not the same species of wood. Which will make the thermal expansion coefficient close to identical. Having that in mind, the joint should expand and contract at the same rate.
Awesome. Your respect for the harmonious resonance in the acoustic guitars has transposed to your electric guitars. Another barrier pushed forward Driftwood guitars!
You’re thinking towards tradition is spot on there was a time when people thought that only mahogany, Rosewood and spruce were the only woods you could use in building a guitar
hi, hope you are well, certainly no new invention, a good new idea to improve, but I perceive that you are adding more resonance to a solid electric, as when people tell you that in a store, the more resonant without an amp an electric guitar is, the better, interesting, its like the hollow or the aluminum body ones in UK, but without the chanbered body. congrats in your new approach. The only thing, as a new use of a stiff, big and strong carbon part, added to a maleable, weather affected material as wood in long term, remember that the trust rod being so little compared, it is not to invasive and determinant, as not being so strong , stiff and big, in it's space on the wood of the neck. thank you best wishes, take care.
In adding 2 new design elements at one time, how will you know, for sure, what makes the sound better, improved or hopefully not worse? My thought from the motorsports tuning world.
I spent years working for an acoustic instruments retailer - selling acoustic guitars directly to customers in person. And meanwhile, I played electric guitars a lot as well. And I concluded that to me, the electric guitar is in its nature mainly an acoustic instrument. And now, even choosing the right pickups for my electric guitar is a decision based on the acoustic nature of that guitar. Anyways, great video and inspiring thoughts!
idk, I really don't know, but I would think some type of relief adjustment would be necessary. better hope the string gauge that gives the right amount of tension for the right amount of relief is the gauge you like and will never change
Luv it...my Dingwall bass has sustain for millennia. Sheldon was 20 years ahead of the curve. You sir are on a similar path...good luck cant wait to see Rhett shred on that thing.
when I was in Fort Lauderdale and was making Pecky Cypress electrics. I made a porotype neck that was maple but I hand carved out the inside so the neck was a compound radius inside and out, then applied a Red Balua wood from a skid as a fret board which is extremely dense like the specific gravity is like 1;15-1. While totally hollow it never moved, for 3 year and I was right by Port Everglades you know it was a seasonal area of humidity there. The dog bone is perfect while down south I also built 4 guitars that I sold that had a set neck that was dowelled to the body, with fiberglass resin. And all of them are still go today and they where a made from 205-2007.
Very cool neck joint. I do something similar. I obviously don't use the dogbone but I do use threaded inserts, stainless bolts and ferrules. I have an idea for a skinny tenon/hybrid bolt on neck joint where the tenon becomes part of the body with an extra bolt at the mid body point between the neck and bridge pickups!
I have two guitars I've done the neck bolt thing on and can bring them by your place if you are interested in seeing and feeling that joint. Its very strong and makes a HUGE difference
Interesting ideas. I think Anderson guitars did something similar with the neck pocket eg a sorta V groove for it to sit in to stop the guitar neck moving side to side. I think your idea is better cause it’s a mortise and tenon so has even less movement. I wish you all the best with these guitars
I like that D tube idea and the bone inset. I had a similar idea but wasn't thinking it to add resonance. I was thinking as a way to neck twist. I first was thinking of using carbon fibre bars inset in the heal of the neck, and cutouts in the pocket. Then thought of a carbon fibre plate bowtie spline on the heal to inset to the pocket. This way reinforce the screw nuts in the heal. I'm not a leuthier by any stretch. I'm primarily a radio tower guy. That's why I was thinking in triangles for torsional strength. Thanks for the great video, I would like to try the D tube idea on my next build.
Some people argue abut if a tight neck pocket is good or not so good, since different woods are use, each of them have different reactions to humidity, heat, etc. So one of the pieces can expand or contract causing some issues. I guess they know that and treated the wood properly, drying it to avoid such issues. Another personal concern is the reliability of machine bolts, with wood screws in some cases the wood can expand around the thread making a tight bond, but machines screws are made to be easily removables, and they are more prone to get loose with vibrations or movement of the pieces, with a contracting material the mechanical joint can lost effectivity and need more care to adjust and tight those bolts. I guess many of those problems are also solved with that tight fit, but anyway they must try it in real conditions to be sure the system works in they way they designed.
I don't know much about carbon fibre, but if "the string tension will give a tiny bit of relief" then surely any significant change in string gauge after the guitar is built will require a truss rod to correct the difference? ... It will be interesting to see what Rhett thinks when he puts it through its paces. Whether you're right or wrong will take some time to be seen, but I think the ideas themselves are both worthy of trying, and I hope it all works out good for you. 👍
It sounds like a good idea on paper, but what if you need to adjust the angle of the neck ? Also sometimes depending on the string gauge, a truss rod is actually useful. The dog bone neck joint not allowing the guitar to shift left or right could potentially cause the guitar to break the neck if it is dropped.
What a smart way of solving the stripping issue! I've been using threaded inserts for a while now...I wish Rhett a speedy recovery and lotta fun with his custom guitar, which hopefully will arrive soon after his cast is removed.
I think your neck and neck pocket ideas are absolutely Brilliant!! Travis Bean was a friend of mine and Marc McElwee still is. I think what you’re doing, the way it attaches and the tone of the neck are revolutionary, if I was you I’d be patenting last week! I really want to know how it sounds when you’re done! Thanks
Not having a Truss Rod sure does not sit right in my head, sets off all sorts of warning signals for me, but i know that those carbon fiber rods sure do wonders for neck stability.IM sure if its done right, it *should* work. I will definitely being following up with your and Rhett when you're done with that build for sure. I hadn't heard of Driftwood Guitars before and I went and watched a few of your build videos, man you sure do build the most stunningly beautiful Acoustics i have ever seen. ...like damn dude. I would be very proud to have my name on a guitar of your build quality. Wish I had the cash to have you build one for me. Amazingly beautiful.
I am all about new and improved and I think you should go for it! no matter what you are doing there can always be improvements. keep striving to make things work better. Don't listen to those who will bring you down and keep up the good work!
I love your ideas, I started putting carbon fiber in my necks probably about 20 years ago but with a truss rod and a three piece laminate and I've never once had to adjust it! I will have to disagree about resonance or tonal differences, in my humble opinion, if there is a difference it's minimal at best but I love the concept and it should be the standard!
I love it. I have only built about 7 electrics now, but 2 of them have some magic. The mojo. Those 2 guitars resonate like no other guitars I have played. Set neck, no dogbone. What you are doing makes good sense on paper, and I’m excited to see some results. Great stuff
I’m fairly new to guitar building and have wondered if something like this would be possible to do. And if there was any point. Really looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I think it’s going to be amazing! Also,that dragon plate D-Tube has blown my mind. Absolute game changer!
Hello again Chris: Firstly, thank you, thank you, thank you, for reducing the "jump cutting" thing! This is a great idea and if memory serves, there have been a few "almost similar" ideas however, your idea is far superior and everything you're said here is absolutely spot on. In any electric, there may be tiny differences in wood selection but 99 % of what makes any electric guitar "great" is the connection you feel. I have one suggestion for whatever it's worth, I'll bet you could come up with a beautiful and unique shape, an electric guitar that doesn't look like any others. Over the years, I've exchanged emails (because they were gracious enough to) with some wonderfully "different" builders, David Myka, Rick Toone, Claudio Pagelli and a guy who I absolutely love , Adriano Sergio. There are a lot of people building their own ramped up versions of Teles Strats and LPs, I think that whatever you come up with on your own will be beautiful. I seemed to have made you guys angry last time, I was made crazy by the over-use of jump edits but this one is lovely, very relaxing and I feel like I'm there, thanks for that.
Here’s an idea, don’t know if it has been done before(probably). Carbon fiber bracing on an acoustic guitar. I always thought that the carbon fiber rod in place of a truss rod was a great idea, as long as you can figure out the whole relief thing
Rainsong Guitars of Woodinville, Washington builds carbon fiber guitars and explains the design and construction on their website. Cf is so strong that bracing is not required, and wood veneer can be applied to the body. Strong, resonant, and resistant to humidity changes.
Let me say I cannot wait for your next update. I love your design you're working with. At first I thought when you showed the dog bone that you were stealing that idea from the Japanese. Only when you put them together did it hit me that the Japanese carpenter had used an oval not a dog bone shape and he had cut some pockets into it. I'm really waiting to hear how it sounds. I'm glad to see that people think outside the box. That's the only way things can change is if somebody is the first one to try something new. Really looking forward to seeing more videos of this.
Very excited about this design and your ideas!! I hope you patent your designs asap! I can’t wait to hear one of these guitars and get Rhett’s feedback.
Really interesting project - I experimented with sanding a neck to a ultra tight press fit and ferrules instead of a neck plate and it makes a big difference. I also think some truss rod types have a negative effect on the tone!
I've messed with round bosses for neck alignment but not a dog bone like you have. I've also thought it would be interesting to do a sliding dove tail, similar to an acoustic, but down the length of the neck, not the depth... You could conceivably draw that style joint tight through the body to ensure maximum neck/body contact. I also love the steel inserts. I think that's the easiest/best upgrade you can do if you have a bolt on guitar that is a bit "dead" sounding. Like a lot of others, I worry about removing the truss rod because I find players like different amounts of relief and some like to change gauges during the course of a tour as their hands either gain strength or become tired. I think what you are doing will be awesome!
That matches my theory about why my old Superchet sounded so much better than most guitars. It was the everything. All together. You're doing really exciting stuff man, staying tuned.
Love the idea. It looks really promising. So much contact being made in a sort of bolt-on neck reminds me of the joints Taylor Guitars did on their solidbody guitars, and the T5 and T3 guitars. I have one of their solidbody guitars and a T5z and those are amazing sounding instruments with great neck joint. Gotta love acoustic makers raising the bar on electric guitar too. Really excited to see the results.
will the no-adjust d-tube neck still stay perfectly straight even with 12 or maybe 13 gauge string sets......some relief is needed and I assume it will be meticulously dialed in but will it vary under different tensions caused by different string gauges? Or is the d-tube strong enough to maintain the same relief no matter the tension/gauge? If proper relief can be dialed in for the lowest action height desired and never changes no matter how much tension is applied if one chooses 8 or 13 gauge strings, then this is gold even in wild temp/humidity swings! Still have to watch out for fret sprout though.....
It should work just fine. The modulus of elasticity (a measurement of a material’s resistance to deformation) of steel is about 200 gigapascals (GPa). For comparison, the modulus of elasticity for carbon fibers is between 150-760 (GPa). The wide range is because the manufacturing process can be modified to tailor stiffness and strength to suit the particular need. So basically, steel comes in a bad second in this race.
It would be neat to see a study of the forces exerted on the joint in a CAD model. At first I was wondering about the differences in the way string tension would be translated to the nuts and bolts here versus in an acoustic guitar. But now that I think about it, you are essentially going to wind up with forces parallel to the bolts and nuts because of the way the neck is seated so firmly in the pocket... just like an acoustic guitar. As long as the wood is happy living together in that joint over time, I think this would be pretty killer.
Very cool approach! Nice to see that you're thinking outside the box. I mean after 75 years of the same approach, it's time someone moved the method forward.
What about a combination of bolt-on and dovetail? I mean, the neck could slide in from the front of the guitar (not from the top like acoustic, but rather horizontally) If you can get a good fit, then secure with bolts, I cannot think of stronger joint, string would basically push the joint even further securing it to the body, just an idea :)
I really dig the idea! What I wonder is why you make it look like a bolt on in the back, instead of doing the dogbone slightly bigger and make it look like a through neck? Good luck anyways, looking forward to see what you do!
Cool neck joint. If you get into carve tops with f-holes, binding and your fancy inlays, You'll probably find there are just as many hours in those as there are in your acoustics.
Anyone who has strummed dozens of electric guitars of the same make and model knows some respond with a magical resonance, but many do not. So, consistent magic has to be goal #1, and extra magic goal #2. To add to the neck joint history, check out the Matsumoku necks from the early '80s Washburn Force and a few Aria Pro II guitars. The neck has an extension like a long tenon under the neck pickup with a shorter screw into a hurricane nut. Nice guitars, and very under-appreciated.
I think Tom Anderson's 2 bolt neck system follows a similar philosophy....as well as the One bolt design by Novo Guitars. Tha being said, I would absolutely love to get my hands on one of these once they are in production!!
Greetings, I enjoyed your video and I’m also a fan of Rhett’s informative videos. I’m 67 year old novice guitar player, so my question maybe a little of the mark; will humidity affect the male dog bone causing possible concerns with solid connectivity? Keep up having fun and let your passion know NO boundaries.
I like it. My only thoughts on the D tube in the neck is that having zero adjustability might be an issue. I've had graphite necked basses in the past with no truss rod, and both had more relief than I like. I know there's a school of thought that says "if a neck is flexible enough to be able to use a truss rod at all, it kind of loses the benefits of carbon fiber reinforcement". It's a catch 22. Your perfect relief may not be mine, and vice-versa.
I don't see how the dog bone will improve neck connectivity. A flat neck pocket, so long at it properly made offers the most surface area to join. Even a snug fitting joint loses a tiny amount of that surface. However the benefits of it for indexing the neck are very cool and I kinda just like the whole idea. Sonically I don't see how it improves but yeah well done with it. Re threaded inserts, they remain inherently flawed. I moved on to a real bolting system where the nuts are installed countersunk under the fretboard thus physically clamping the neck in place. Again I don't know if it makes a sonic difference but it's definitely superior to threaded inserts strength and connectivity wise because you have pressure from both sides as opposed to the insert way, which is better than screws but still works on the same principle
A flat connection isn't the same area of wood on wood touching because you gain the additional contact area of the walls of the sunken portion without losing anything else. So, this idea IS a net gain on contact area, but who knows if that matters.
I think you’re on to something with the resonance angle with electric guitars? My favorite electric guitars have been ones that have a natural resonance. Looking forward to seeing and hearing more!
Love it! Ive heard of having a nut and bolt being great. I think your trussrod replacement should work and sound great. Ill have to get one unless theyre crazy expensive
I think the no truss rod thing is interesting. You might want to look something called atlas weatherometer (used to test printable material) that simulates 10,20,100 years by flashing different humidities. Takes about a week to simulate 20 years, you may want to look into that. Im sure some printable media manufacturer would let you toss a guitar in there :). Very cool out of the box thinking nonetheless.
Very cool design. I've never seen the dog bone done before, but in principle reminds me of the Taylor T-Lock neck which has similar goals to increase surface area and provide an indexed joint that keeps it straight. Before his passing, Ed Roman was doing something similar, you can look at his quicksilver neck and the deep pocket neck designs which have similar goals. I once made a bolt on neck with drawbores instead of bolts. Kind of the same idea before CNC was a thing. Worked pretty nice, but I opted to to through necks after that and never did more than a single prototype.
Excellent and creative work. I do however take exception with a dead straight neck. And among lot of my friends there seems to be a trend of switching, after many decades, from 10's to a 9 set. How do you get your favorite relief setting?
I also think of electric guitars as a tonal al a carte type of thing. You can change your sound pretty easily by choosing to use a different amp or different pickups. The dog bone is a cool concept, although, I would suspect that having a nice tight neck and neck pocket fit without it will get you the same amount of sustain and tone. Just a guess, but I do like seeing people innovate.
Thanks for the video. I love threaded inserts instead of wood screws on electrics, great idea for the neck. My old Alembic bass had machine screws and brass inserts even for the back cover plate, it really lends a feel of quality. I thought the dog bone was a great idea when you showed it in the other video.
Pretty cool. I do also wonder about effects of humidity, or lack there of. Great vid though! I can see how this build would be really great, but it does seem like it doesn't give the owner the ability to make their own adjustments. Your background with acoustics makes sense with these decisions though.
Eh. You've still got the Fender neck pocket and heel. Check out how Millimetric Instruments does a bolt-neck. The part that bolts in is completely past the fingerboard, making it possible to eliminate any heel area (Millimetric *doesn't* eliminate a bulky heel, but his design makes it possible... why he doesn't, I've no idea) . I rarely play up in that wheedly-wheedly area, but the bulk of the heel is always the complaint from the wheedlers.
Seems like a very good idea - that D-Tube "trussrod" could be combined with roasted maple - I would like that 👍👍 Stay on your path - I'm excited to see and hear more from you!
Interesting video and like the idea of the D tube. It appears though that you have the tube off centre slightly more to the base side. Is that so or just an illusion?
Very cool stuff you guys are doing. Not to knock what you are trying, but I had a Vigier guitar in the past that had a carbon fiber rod in it instead of a truss rod. Sounded terrible. It had so much high frequency in the neck, which I attributed to the stiff carbon fiber. It was unusable due to the piercing high frequencies and I sold it. Just throwing that out there.
Interesting when you first started talking I was thinking something like finger , box or dovetail. Maybe a really long younger and groove . I like your idea. I am looking forward to the final product
I'm intrigued by the frequency the d-tube resonates at. The one you tap resonates at G (or thereabouts). When you spoke to Dragon Plate, did they by chance elaborate on this? I'm assuming the frequency will change when cut to size. I'm curious, did you tune it? Love this content! Thanks!
I think if we assume that the correct relief is an very important thing, having a way to adjust if is mandatory. If you make it depending on the string tension, it will change when you change the string gauge.
Really decent ideas but... have you considered helicoil for the inserts? Or a screw in insert? Just saying, if it all works, it works well. One oh crap might be an issue.
Forward thinking, the best guitar is always yet to be built. I like.
Enzo Ferrari started this "next one" thing
Keep innovation and creativity coming! Love it. 'D' tube is awesome too. Stagnation is the enemy: KILL IT
Yeah maybe they neck will never bend but what people also use truss rods for is too set it up for their taste. Or if they change their mind and want it either dead straight or with a little more relief.
Really liked how you describe the difference in quality between an acoustic and electric. It's exactly how I feel when playing. Acoustic is sound and purity, electric response and flexibility of shaping a tone.
Dude. Rhett is big time and this is gonna make the channel blow… hell, it’s gonna make the business blow. Chris, you and Matt are about to hit big time for sure. Good times.
Rhett is going to LOVE that guitar. I’m thinking a “perfect storm” in that he has been forced to not play for a few weeks then gets this guitar just in time to play again. I can’t wait to see what happens.
I think these innovations are great and add a lot of knowledge to the luthier craft but I'm still hard pressed (after much research that has already been done) to see if anyone can pass a blind A vs B comparison test of different neck joints. Even with access to a high resolution waveform to accompany the sound files people can't consistently tell them apart.
The electronics are important. They are the ones interacting with the strings mainly not the wood. Tonewood is only true for acoustics. At least people with normal hearing usually can't pick it in a blind test. And even the ones who say they can only notice a slight difference mainly in sustain.
Cool. I dig the innovations. Can’t wait to hear the final result.
If the "dogbone system" were also made out of carbon material, it would potentionally contribute to resonance over an ever bigger surface area. In addition, problems in the surrounding wood, due to moisture changes could also be minimized. However, I`m not familiar in all of this and may be too diffecult to realize or too expensive...It`s only a thought twist that could possibly contribute.
Probably the most standout guitar vid I’ve seen in memory. As a woodworking hobbyist, I love that you’re building instruments with new joinery techniques. Edit: Then I got to the truss rods. Bravo 👏
Your scientific explanation of what an electric guitar has, is pretty much spot on..could be summed up in one word! Soul! An electric guitar is almost alive, especially when plugged into an amp. Nice video man. Love the innovation.
As I've been learning composites (building and load testing structures), I've found that failures in load tests can be more instructive than the successes, and lead us into better design and building of parts. With Pandemic Pause 2020, I decided to begin my guitar journey (Taylor Academy 12, Breedlove, Ibanez semi-hollow for the variety), and with the recent landing of an Angel 2EC-RDBL built in Melbourne of Australian woods by Cole Clark Guitars, my first all-solid wood guitar of Spanish heel (through neck) construction. Guitarist friends and mentors are "Wow!" as it really sings. Thanks for the mention of Dragonplate, as yesterday I held a sample piece of carbon fiber rebar (for concrete work), and another local precast company carries fiberglass rebar.
Also, have you tested the neck joint through multiple wet/dry cycles? I would worry a little about differential swelling in the dogbone causing the neck pocket to split if it is exposed to high humidity and then to very dry air (such as a flight from Florida to San Diego)
I see your line of thinking, but when I analyze your conclusion of ending in the wood splitting, notice that both the male and female dog bones are made out of wood and should have a similar if not identical coefficient of thermal expansion. So swelling and drying should occur at the same rate.
@@allenmitchell09 this assumes that they are from the same species
@@StevenFines13147 I agree. To reach my conclusion of the joint's reaction to changing environmental conditions, I am assuming the two species of woods of both the male and female portions of the "dogbone" joint to be similar if not the same species of wood. Which will make the thermal expansion coefficient close to identical. Having that in mind, the joint should expand and contract at the same rate.
@@mercury_hatter1257 we’ll just have to keep watching Rhett to find out.
Thing is that it is very easy to test
Awesome. Your respect for the harmonious resonance in the acoustic guitars has transposed to your electric guitars. Another barrier pushed forward Driftwood guitars!
this looks like it's going to be a truly fantastic guitar, anyone who gets to play one will be truly blessed.
You're incredibly lucky! Good for you. Good to see you never take anything for granted!
You’re thinking towards tradition is spot on there was a time when people thought that only mahogany, Rosewood and spruce were the only woods you could use in building a guitar
hi, hope you are well, certainly no new invention, a good new idea to improve, but I perceive that you are adding more resonance to a solid electric, as when people tell you that in a store, the more resonant without an amp an electric guitar is, the better, interesting, its like the hollow or the aluminum body ones in UK, but without the chanbered body. congrats in your new approach. The only thing, as a new use of a stiff, big and strong carbon part, added to a maleable, weather affected material as wood in long term, remember that the trust rod being so little compared, it is not to invasive and determinant, as not being so strong , stiff and big, in it's space on the wood of the neck. thank you best wishes, take care.
In adding 2 new design elements at one time, how will you know, for sure, what makes the sound better, improved or hopefully not worse?
My thought from the motorsports tuning world.
I spent years working for an acoustic instruments retailer - selling acoustic guitars directly to customers in person. And meanwhile, I played electric guitars a lot as well. And I concluded that to me, the electric guitar is in its nature mainly an acoustic instrument. And now, even choosing the right pickups for my electric guitar is a decision based on the acoustic nature of that guitar. Anyways, great video and inspiring thoughts!
I hope that both Rhett and you keep showing us this unique process to guitar designs!
We plan too.
idk, I really don't know, but I would think some type of relief adjustment would be necessary. better hope the string gauge that gives the right amount of tension for the right amount of relief is the gauge you like and will never change
Luv it...my Dingwall bass has sustain for millennia. Sheldon was 20 years ahead of the curve. You sir are on a similar path...good luck cant wait to see Rhett shred on that thing.
when I was in Fort Lauderdale and was making Pecky Cypress electrics. I made a porotype neck that was maple but I hand carved out the inside so the neck was a compound radius inside and out, then applied a Red Balua wood from a skid as a fret board which is extremely dense like the specific gravity is like 1;15-1. While totally hollow it never moved, for 3 year and I was right by Port Everglades you know it was a seasonal area of humidity there. The dog bone is perfect while down south I also built 4 guitars that I sold that had a set neck that was dowelled to the body, with fiberglass resin. And all of them are still go today and they where a made from 205-2007.
Very cool neck joint. I do something similar. I obviously don't use the dogbone but I do use threaded inserts, stainless bolts and ferrules. I have an idea for a skinny tenon/hybrid bolt on neck joint where the tenon becomes part of the body with an extra bolt at the mid body point between the neck and bridge pickups!
I have two guitars I've done the neck bolt thing on and can bring them by your place if you are interested in seeing and feeling that joint. Its very strong and makes a HUGE difference
Interesting ideas. I think Anderson guitars did something similar with the neck pocket eg a sorta V groove for it to sit in to stop the guitar neck moving side to side. I think your idea is better cause it’s a mortise and tenon so has even less movement. I wish you all the best with these guitars
I like that D tube idea and the bone inset. I had a similar idea but wasn't thinking it to add resonance. I was thinking as a way to neck twist. I first was thinking of using carbon fibre bars inset in the heal of the neck, and cutouts in the pocket. Then thought of a carbon fibre plate bowtie spline on the heal to inset to the pocket. This way reinforce the screw nuts in the heal. I'm not a leuthier by any stretch. I'm primarily a radio tower guy. That's why I was thinking in triangles for torsional strength. Thanks for the great video, I would like to try the D tube idea on my next build.
Some people argue abut if a tight neck pocket is good or not so good, since different woods are use, each of them have different reactions to humidity, heat, etc. So one of the pieces can expand or contract causing some issues. I guess they know that and treated the wood properly, drying it to avoid such issues. Another personal concern is the reliability of machine bolts, with wood screws in some cases the wood can expand around the thread making a tight bond, but machines screws are made to be easily removables, and they are more prone to get loose with vibrations or movement of the pieces, with a contracting material the mechanical joint can lost effectivity and need more care to adjust and tight those bolts. I guess many of those problems are also solved with that tight fit, but anyway they must try it in real conditions to be sure the system works in they way they designed.
I don't know much about carbon fibre, but if "the string tension will give a tiny bit of relief" then surely any significant change in string gauge after the guitar is built will require a truss rod to correct the difference? ... It will be interesting to see what Rhett thinks when he puts it through its paces. Whether you're right or wrong will take some time to be seen, but I think the ideas themselves are both worthy of trying, and I hope it all works out good for you. 👍
It sounds like a good idea on paper, but what if you need to adjust the angle of the neck ? Also sometimes depending on the string gauge, a truss rod is actually useful. The dog bone neck joint not allowing the guitar to shift left or right could potentially cause the guitar to break the neck if it is dropped.
What a smart way of solving the stripping issue! I've been using threaded inserts for a while now...I wish Rhett a speedy recovery and lotta fun with his custom guitar, which hopefully will arrive soon after his cast is removed.
I think your neck and neck pocket ideas are absolutely Brilliant!! Travis Bean was a friend of mine and Marc McElwee still is. I think what you’re doing, the way it attaches and the tone of the neck are revolutionary, if I was you I’d be patenting last week! I really want to know how it sounds when you’re done! Thanks
Thanks so much!
I appreciate people who advance stuff while understanding that it's not perfect but trust the journey to find solutions.
Not having a Truss Rod sure does not sit right in my head, sets off all sorts of warning signals for me, but i know that those carbon fiber rods sure do wonders for neck stability.IM sure if its done right, it *should* work. I will definitely being following up with your and Rhett when you're done with that build for sure.
I hadn't heard of Driftwood Guitars before and I went and watched a few of your build videos, man you sure do build the most stunningly beautiful Acoustics i have ever seen. ...like damn dude. I would be very proud to have my name on a guitar of your build quality. Wish I had the cash to have you build one for me. Amazingly beautiful.
I am all about new and improved and I think you should go for it! no matter what you are doing there can always be improvements. keep striving to make things work better. Don't listen to those who will bring you down and keep up the good work!
I love your ideas, I started putting carbon fiber in my necks probably about 20 years ago but with a truss rod and a three piece laminate and I've never once had to adjust it! I will have to disagree about resonance or tonal differences, in my humble opinion, if there is a difference it's minimal at best but I love the concept and it should be the standard!
I love it. I have only built about 7 electrics now, but 2 of them have some magic. The mojo. Those 2 guitars resonate like no other guitars I have played. Set neck, no dogbone. What you are doing makes good sense on paper, and I’m excited to see some results. Great stuff
Wow.... That's a killer idea. I can't wait to hear one of these live.
I’m fairly new to guitar building and have wondered if something like this would be possible to do. And if there was any point. Really looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I think it’s going to be amazing!
Also,that dragon plate D-Tube has blown my mind. Absolute game changer!
Excited to see how things go. I love innovations in music. Way too many people stay stuck in the past.
Hello again Chris: Firstly, thank you, thank you, thank you, for reducing the "jump cutting" thing!
This is a great idea and if memory serves, there have been a few "almost similar" ideas however, your idea
is far superior and everything you're said here is absolutely spot on. In any electric, there may be tiny differences
in wood selection but 99 % of what makes any electric guitar "great" is the connection you feel. I have one suggestion
for whatever it's worth, I'll bet you could come up with a beautiful and unique shape, an electric guitar that doesn't look
like any others. Over the years, I've exchanged emails (because they were gracious enough to) with some wonderfully
"different" builders, David Myka, Rick Toone, Claudio Pagelli and a guy who I absolutely love , Adriano Sergio. There are
a lot of people building their own ramped up versions of Teles Strats and LPs, I think that whatever you come up with
on your own will be beautiful. I seemed to have made you guys angry last time, I was made crazy by the over-use of jump
edits but this one is lovely, very relaxing and I feel like I'm there, thanks for that.
Here’s an idea, don’t know if it has been done before(probably). Carbon fiber bracing on an acoustic guitar. I always thought that the carbon fiber rod in place of a truss rod was a great idea, as long as you can figure out the whole relief thing
Rainsong Guitars of Woodinville, Washington builds carbon fiber guitars and explains the design and construction on their website. Cf is so strong that bracing is not required, and wood veneer can be applied to the body. Strong, resonant, and resistant to humidity changes.
Rhett is lucky guy, well deserved. Always excited about innovation
Really interesting build approach, especially the neck design without a truss rod but with a solid carbon fiber "musical" rod. Thanks for the video!
Let me say I cannot wait for your next update. I love your design you're working with. At first I thought when you showed the dog bone that you were stealing that idea from the Japanese. Only when you put them together did it hit me that the Japanese carpenter had used an oval not a dog bone shape and he had cut some pockets into it.
I'm really waiting to hear how it sounds. I'm glad to see that people think outside the box. That's the only way things can change is if somebody is the first one to try something new. Really looking forward to seeing more videos of this.
Kudos on learning from the past and not being afraid to try new things. As they say, “you only fail when you stop trying.”
I think this is an amazingly innovative design and hope it works out. To have a neck that doesn't require adjustment would be awesome.
Very excited about this design and your ideas!! I hope you patent your designs asap! I can’t wait to hear one of these guitars and get Rhett’s feedback.
Really interesting project - I experimented with sanding a neck to a ultra tight press fit and ferrules instead of a neck plate and it makes a big difference. I also think some truss rod types have a negative effect on the tone!
I've messed with round bosses for neck alignment but not a dog bone like you have. I've also thought it would be interesting to do a sliding dove tail, similar to an acoustic, but down the length of the neck, not the depth... You could conceivably draw that style joint tight through the body to ensure maximum neck/body contact. I also love the steel inserts. I think that's the easiest/best upgrade you can do if you have a bolt on guitar that is a bit "dead" sounding. Like a lot of others, I worry about removing the truss rod because I find players like different amounts of relief and some like to change gauges during the course of a tour as their hands either gain strength or become tired. I think what you are doing will be awesome!
That matches my theory about why my old Superchet sounded so much better than most guitars. It was the everything. All together. You're doing really exciting stuff man, staying tuned.
Super cool design! Can’t wait to hear it finished
Love the idea. It looks really promising.
So much contact being made in a sort of bolt-on neck reminds me of the joints Taylor Guitars did on their solidbody guitars, and the T5 and T3 guitars. I have one of their solidbody guitars and a T5z and those are amazing sounding instruments with great neck joint. Gotta love acoustic makers raising the bar on electric guitar too.
Really excited to see the results.
I don't have CNC so I'm a little slower at it. The parker Fly guitar is awesome, love the 59.5mm neck width at the heel!
Looking forward to seeing the end result! Very cool concept and idea.
Seems like a great idea. Would love a super strat with that neck joint.
Awesome idea man can't wait to hear rhett play it
will the no-adjust d-tube neck still stay perfectly straight even with 12 or maybe 13 gauge string sets......some relief is needed and I assume it will be meticulously dialed in but will it vary under different tensions caused by different string gauges? Or is the d-tube strong enough to maintain the same relief no matter the tension/gauge? If proper relief can be dialed in for the lowest action height desired and never changes no matter how much tension is applied if one chooses 8 or 13 gauge strings, then this is gold even in wild temp/humidity swings! Still have to watch out for fret sprout though.....
It should work just fine. The modulus of elasticity (a measurement of a material’s resistance to deformation) of steel is about 200 gigapascals (GPa). For comparison, the modulus of elasticity for carbon fibers is between 150-760 (GPa). The wide range is because the manufacturing process can be modified to tailor stiffness and strength to suit the particular need. So basically, steel comes in a bad second in this race.
It would be neat to see a study of the forces exerted on the joint in a CAD model. At first I was wondering about the differences in the way string tension would be translated to the nuts and bolts here versus in an acoustic guitar. But now that I think about it, you are essentially going to wind up with forces parallel to the bolts and nuts because of the way the neck is seated so firmly in the pocket... just like an acoustic guitar. As long as the wood is happy living together in that joint over time, I think this would be pretty killer.
Very cool approach! Nice to see that you're thinking outside the box. I mean after 75 years of the same approach, it's time someone moved the method forward.
What about a combination of bolt-on and dovetail? I mean, the neck could slide in from the front of the guitar (not from the top like acoustic, but rather horizontally) If you can get a good fit, then secure with bolts, I cannot think of stronger joint, string would basically push the joint even further securing it to the body, just an idea :)
I really dig the idea! What I wonder is why you make it look like a bolt on in the back, instead of doing the dogbone slightly bigger and make it look like a through neck? Good luck anyways, looking forward to see what you do!
Cool neck joint. If you get into carve tops with f-holes, binding and your fancy inlays, You'll probably find there are just as many hours in those as there are in your acoustics.
Anyone who has strummed dozens of electric guitars of the same make and model knows some respond with a magical resonance, but many do not. So, consistent magic has to be goal #1, and extra magic goal #2. To add to the neck joint history, check out the Matsumoku necks from the early '80s Washburn Force and a few Aria Pro II guitars. The neck has an extension like a long tenon under the neck pickup with a shorter screw into a hurricane nut. Nice guitars, and very under-appreciated.
Sounds very promising. Great work, can't wait to heard that.
I think Tom Anderson's 2 bolt neck system follows a similar philosophy....as well as the One bolt design by Novo Guitars. Tha being said, I would absolutely love to get my hands on one of these once they are in production!!
Great direction,I for one will be following up on you and your project,I'm very intrigued,and Yeah,I think you just may be on to something.
A very "Rhett Shull" intro
😆 it’s like Rhett directed this.
Greetings, I enjoyed your video and I’m also a fan of Rhett’s informative videos. I’m 67 year old novice guitar player, so my question maybe a little of the mark; will humidity affect the male dog bone causing possible concerns with solid connectivity? Keep up having fun and let your passion know NO boundaries.
I like it. My only thoughts on the D tube in the neck is that having zero adjustability might be an issue. I've had graphite necked basses in the past with no truss rod, and both had more relief than I like. I know there's a school of thought that says "if a neck is flexible enough to be able to use a truss rod at all, it kind of loses the benefits of carbon fiber reinforcement". It's a catch 22. Your perfect relief may not be mine, and vice-versa.
I don't see how the dog bone will improve neck connectivity. A flat neck pocket, so long at it properly made offers the most surface area to join. Even a snug fitting joint loses a tiny amount of that surface. However the benefits of it for indexing the neck are very cool and I kinda just like the whole idea. Sonically I don't see how it improves but yeah well done with it. Re threaded inserts, they remain inherently flawed. I moved on to a real bolting system where the nuts are installed countersunk under the fretboard thus physically clamping the neck in place. Again I don't know if it makes a sonic difference but it's definitely superior to threaded inserts strength and connectivity wise because you have pressure from both sides as opposed to the insert way, which is better than screws but still works on the same principle
A flat connection isn't the same area of wood on wood touching because you gain the additional contact area of the walls of the sunken portion without losing anything else. So, this idea IS a net gain on contact area, but who knows if that matters.
I think you’re on to something with the resonance angle with electric guitars? My favorite electric guitars have been ones that have a natural resonance. Looking forward to seeing and hearing more!
Love it! Ive heard of having a nut and bolt being great. I think your trussrod replacement should work and sound great. Ill have to get one unless theyre crazy expensive
I think the no truss rod thing is interesting. You might want to look something called atlas weatherometer (used to test printable material) that simulates 10,20,100 years by flashing different humidities. Takes about a week to simulate 20 years, you may want to look into that. Im sure some printable media manufacturer would let you toss a guitar in there :). Very cool out of the box thinking nonetheless.
Well one disadvantage is no adjustability when you change your mind and want more relief/no relief.
Very cool design. I've never seen the dog bone done before, but in principle reminds me of the Taylor T-Lock neck which has similar goals to increase surface area and provide an indexed joint that keeps it straight.
Before his passing, Ed Roman was doing something similar, you can look at his quicksilver neck and the deep pocket neck designs which have similar goals.
I once made a bolt on neck with drawbores instead of bolts. Kind of the same idea before CNC was a thing. Worked pretty nice, but I opted to to through necks after that and never did more than a single prototype.
All guitars should be through necks.
Excellent and creative work. I do however take exception with a dead straight neck. And among lot of my friends there seems to be a trend of switching, after many decades, from 10's to a 9 set. How do you get your favorite relief setting?
That neck fit sure makes sense to me...I must try it...thanks for sharing.
Best description of an electric guitar and how players make them sing compared to acoustics
Thanks a lot!
Neck idea isn't dumb...keep pushing the limits man! I'm excited to see 002 when she's done!
Thanks Driftwood. ⚓️. Great job. That neck is still adjustable… cnc a tapered shim ? Metal shim stock is available too… 😎
Fantastic video! Thanks so much for looking into new methods and technology.
I also think of electric guitars as a tonal al a carte type of thing. You can change your sound pretty easily by choosing to use a different amp or different pickups. The dog bone is a cool concept, although, I would suspect that having a nice tight neck and neck pocket fit without it will get you the same amount of sustain and tone. Just a guess, but I do like seeing people innovate.
Thanks for the video. I love threaded inserts instead of wood screws on electrics, great idea for the neck. My old Alembic bass had machine screws and brass inserts even for the back cover plate, it really lends a feel of quality. I thought the dog bone was a great idea when you showed it in the other video.
Pretty cool. I do also wonder about effects of humidity, or lack there of. Great vid though!
I can see how this build would be really great, but it does seem like it doesn't give the owner the ability to make their own adjustments. Your background with acoustics makes sense with these decisions though.
Loving the dog bone, very solid engineering. That top looks sooo nice too.
Eh. You've still got the Fender neck pocket and heel. Check out how Millimetric Instruments does a bolt-neck. The part that bolts in is completely past the fingerboard, making it possible to eliminate any heel area (Millimetric *doesn't* eliminate a bulky heel, but his design makes it possible... why he doesn't, I've no idea) . I rarely play up in that wheedly-wheedly area, but the bulk of the heel is always the complaint from the wheedlers.
love the innovation. excited to see how this turns out
Seems like a very good idea - that D-Tube "trussrod" could be combined with roasted maple - I would like that 👍👍
Stay on your path - I'm excited to see and hear more from you!
Go for it, man. You succeed or you learn. Win/win situation all the way round.
Binge watching your channel I discover last weekend. Great channel guys!
Interesting video and like the idea of the D tube. It appears though that you have the tube off centre slightly more to the base side. Is that so or just an illusion?
Be sure to apply for a patent. Can’t wait to see how this works out, you might just be on to something pretty damn nifty.
Extremely innovative idea! Can’t wait to see this evolve.
You and me both!
Very cool stuff you guys are doing. Not to knock what you are trying, but I had a Vigier guitar in the past that had a carbon fiber rod in it instead of a truss rod. Sounded terrible. It had so much high frequency in the neck, which I attributed to the stiff carbon fiber. It was unusable due to the piercing high frequencies and I sold it. Just throwing that out there.
first you learn from failures second i think you're on to something very cool can't wait to hear it.
This sounds great, excited for the journey! What about brass for the ferrule, bolts and sleeves in the joint/pocket?
Very very cool design! Excited to see the end result! Rhet you lucky dogbone you 😉
Interesting when you first started talking I was thinking something like finger , box or dovetail. Maybe a really long younger and groove .
I like your idea. I am looking forward to the final product
I'm intrigued by the frequency the d-tube resonates at. The one you tap resonates at G (or thereabouts). When you spoke to Dragon Plate, did they by chance elaborate on this? I'm assuming the frequency will change when cut to size. I'm curious, did you tune it? Love this content! Thanks!
I think if we assume that the correct relief is an very important thing, having a way to adjust if is mandatory. If you make it depending on the string tension, it will change when you change the string gauge.
That is true for a wood neck. Not one with a carbon fiber core no allowing the surrounding wood to move around.
Really decent ideas but... have you considered helicoil for the inserts? Or a screw in insert? Just saying, if it all works, it works well. One oh crap might be an issue.