Zwift Trainer Difficulty: There's one more thing to know....descents!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2020
- Think you've got a grip on how the Trainer Difficulty setting works in Zwift? Well, there's one more thing to know. Zwift handles negative gradients differently. In this video I discuss and demonstrate the simulation commands sent to a smart trainer for uphill and downhill gradients and compare those to the in-game virtual gradient your avatar has to slog up (and down).
Please note: The discussion around the 'Trainer Difficulty' making you faster or slower in-game (virtual reality) has been run and done. It doesn't have any impact over the in-game virtual speed. See my video here: • Zwift Trainer Difficul... How you produce those watts is a topic for another day.
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#zwift #cycling #indoorcycling - กีฬา
Will just leave my trainer difficulty at 50% where it's been for the last 3 years. 😁
Ok my take on this is the following. 1) 250w up a climb equals a given speed for your Avatar. You still have to produce 250w regardless of your cadence and what gear you use....but 2) the difficulty slider allows people to make full use of their gear ratios depending on their ability. If you build a trainer capable of handling 500w in a high gear, but a user can only hold 150w, then that Smart trainer would be 'too hard' for them, and they would spend whole time in bottom few cogs. The slider allows for the differences in smart trainer ranges, AND the differences in user's capability. It does not make pushing a wattage in game easier
Don't even own a trainer but watch all your videos for the support.
Anyone else piece together that it was Jan Frodeno at the top spot of that KOM? Neat. Thanks for clarifying!
Forget the trainer difficulty, I didn’t realise “ride on’s” collected in your back pockets!! #needmorefriends 😂
me either
Mmmmmmm, so that's what the little me has in the back pockets, go figure.
Fewer friends means less weight #nofriends
/s
Mr. Jan Frodeno with the KOM...nice
Title music "on" astounded! 😄 Great, clear video.
Always so informative and educational---thanks for the great video !! 💖
Shane, this is the best explanation of the difficulty setting that I've heard/seen yet. Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished. Pandora's box has been opened. At least you'll get the views!
not really..I learned more in the comments..Shane never explains anything with a decent analogy
This is a concept I understood early on that seems to fool many Zwift riders. I do believe there is one big difference though that does not get talked about too often and that is flywheel inertia. If you are set to 0% difficulty you can climb a 12% grade in what would be a flat road gear, big chain ring. That gear will spin the flywheel faster and therefore give it more inertia. You still do the same amount of watts sure but one is done with low inertia (100% difficulty) and one is done with high inertia (0%). Maybe it is all in my head but high inertia on the trainer always seems easier than low inertia for the same exact power output. Not sure I know how to explain that though...
Many Zwift users aren't technically minded and can't wrap their heads around the fact that Trainer Difficulty actually only modifies the behavior of the smart trainer and not the in-game physics. I recently argued with someone who was adamant that he could descend faster with 100% Trainer Difficulty vs a lower setting even though you and I both know that it's easier to power down a descent when a -10% grade feels like -2.5% (50% TD) vs when it feels like 10% (100% TD) and we are spinning out in our tallest gear combination.
in zwift 50% difficulty i can go uphill at 17kph to 21kph on a 12% gradience for 40mins , in real world 12% gradience i can only do 11kph - 15kph for 40mins , just saying 🤔
i believe so.. i tried it so in less difficulty i felt like i have to pedal more (probably more cadence) to get the same speed/power... i felt like a turtle.
when i set it full difficulty i felt like my pedal stroke were more and best representative “in” the game
im not agree with this is only a matter of trainer feeling...
@@saijapz16 You can't compare the real world and zwift directly. That has nothing to do with trainer difficulty. It's more a function of wind resistance probably. No matter where you set that slider you're going to get the same result on zwift. You'll just be in different gears and shift less.
Trainer difficulty slider is the electronic equivalent of a cassette swap. If you put on an easier cassette to get up the hill, then you will need to do more pedal strokes to cover the same distance--because torque x rpm = power.
My thoughts also. This is why segments and kom's are legit regardless of you setting.
The way I have always looked at it Shane. The slider just changes your cluster (virtually of course). 100% is an 11-21. 50% is a 12-28 etc etc. I understand it isnt quite as simple, but it seems a fair way to explain it.
Thanks for this helps my head... I’m running 100% and I’ve avoided the alp because I think I’ll run out of gears. I’ll give it a shot and turn it down 👍
This is a great video. I would actually say reducing the trainer difficulty to zero is basically like riding a dumb trainer and just using your gearing to produce the watts and in turn creating the resistance. Whereas setting it to 100% is probably the most realistic feel to actually riding on the road. I would probably leave it at 100% for normal training rides and maybe reduce it for races so the gradient changes don’t affect you that much where you need to drop multiple gears and then get dropped.
I use it at 1/4 for races just so there is some shifting but I agree in that if I'm riding on a trainer and racing I don't want to have to shift 4 cogs up and down especially since the bike I use on the trainer has down tube shifters. For regular riding I set it at 1/2. It feels just as realistic to your legs no matter where you set it. It's only your shift hand that feels the difference.
I use to set 100% for everything but in case of very hard climb (like Alpe du Zwift) the perception is much harder than in the real world because you cannot swing the bike helping your legs with the higher part of the body (in particular when you are not sitting).
Personally I think that 85-90% is a more precise approximation of the real effort substained by the legs.
@@mashiro84 With the way the trainer difficulty works, you could always change down a gear to get the same affect.
@@chrisgraham6031 When you are ascending the Alpe de Zwift or the final part to the antenna of the Epic KOM maybe you are pushing on the last gear of the cassette. My 34/28 at 65RPM on 14% is very challenging without swinging the bike.
I use the Tacx Neo T2 and with TD at 0%, it certainly does not feel like a dumb trainer at all. There is indeed resistance felt and it changes with the gradient. Since I will naturally want to maintain a reasonable speed when going uphill, the increased work needed comes when I have to increase my cadence to counter the higher resistance. And all these happens without me shifting my gears at all (I typically leave it at the 2nd or 3rd smallest on the back, and the big front for the entire ride).
Hi gplama it’s Sean this is the video I was asking you the question on about the Wattbike atom thank for getting back
If I knew then what I know now...With most of my outdoor miles spent climbing in Colorado I went compact a few years ago. When I finally got onto Zwift and bought the smart trainer last fall I also picked up a new compact crank for one of my older bikes to mirror my regular outdoor ride while training indoors. I could have saved some money and hassle by simply reducing the difficulty a bit with the standard crank for the same result.
Shane, riding my smart rollers I am very happy Zwift does this, otherwise I would not be able to ride down hills as I need resistance to keep pedalling and stay upright.
what are smart rollers?
@@Mixedbydavey rollers with adjustable resistance unit - see insideride.com
This issue first seems like a mind-bender but hopefully it isn't ... my take on it is that setting "Difficulty" is equivalent to changing gear. In-game, it still takes the same energy to climb a hill - and higher gear/lower cadence = lower gear/higher cadence = same Watts. Setting 100% difficulty just means you will need to select a lower gear for the same energy output, and same energy output therefore means no difference in-game.
50% or 100% i believe it will impact gearing alone. i allways get amazed how effortless it looks for you to go over 300w lol
Mariz 650 thought the same
Wrong. It will impact how your legs feel the effort, your cadence will be lower and lactate will rise faster. Less than 100% is just not the real life.
@@NoName-nu4vr less than 100% means you're in a lower gear
Clear as crystal, cheers Shane!
Buuuuuut, I’m sure this must have been brought up before... riding with higher or full difficulty will be more “difficult” by the simple fact that you need to shift more (In my limited experience)
Another thing I noticed regarding descents, after I foolishly joined a race, racing up a steep hill cresting over to a steep descent it was impossible to keep the power up going down at full difficulty and keep up with the bunch even with my fastest gear. Of course being on 1x is my own damn fault but I would still need to sprint like a maniac compared to a fellow racing on 10% sitting in the middle of the cassette the whole race.
Not complaining though... just an observation, having a lot of fun with this, especially at max trainer difficulty.
Looking forward to all your little zwift tip videos now🙏
And not all trainers give the same experience on a given setting; on my Elite Drivo2, 100% setting means a crazy amount of shifting as the changes are so large and abrupt. On a Neo for example, this is less the case. Set it to whatever feels best for what you want to do.
I agree with you, but I don't think most people understand that fact. Setting the difficulty to 100 ONLY means you have to change gears more often.
@@AB-fh9zh Agreed I have the Elite Drivo and at %100 the hills kick in like crazy meaning having to shift or you won't be able to turn the pedals lol.
Oh yea and at the %100 setting meaning you have to shift more on the hills means its harder 🤷♂️
Rides of Japan
100% difficulty hills pull out your power to move
0% manage your power by your self to move on the hills
Shane is showing off that tan! Thanks for the vid!
Preciate ya
On some trainers that attach to the wheel they are a lot more fluid at higher wheel speeds. If I am pushing op 11% at 300w at 7mph my trainer really doesn't like it. At 50% it allows more speed at the wheel for the same power which is in a better place for the trainer to handle as its rotational speed is higher. Also it is sharing the loaded force over more tyre rubber so is less harsh on tyre wear etc.
Im on a Kickr snap so you're saying the 50% would be better? If Im being perfectly honest when I switch gears to adapt to the grade change my avatar will slow down very unrealistically harshly and slowly compared to real life. What you just described sounds more realistic but I dont want to damage my training effect. Thanks
@@morganowens1359 I have a tacx vortex, it has a limit, as do all trainers, to the amount of watts it can deal with. Additionally trainers can deal with the watts easier at higher speeds than lower speeds. There will also be differences due to the manufacturers internal designs. My vortex will probably handle 500w when I am spinning comfortably, but if I am mashing the pedals at 4mph neither the vortex or my rear tire will be happy with 500w. Each machine might have different nuances in how it deals with rates of change of load with varying wheel/ hub speed . Without having numerous devices side by side it will be difficult to say if we are all riding on an even playing field. That said, as long as the number coming out of your trainer in terms of power is accurate, your avatar should progress the same as anyone elses in zwift... with the same body/bike metrics.
Cheers bud 👏🚴♂️😉
Ah, that is why my Climb never seems to nose dive like I thought it should. Thanks
Just as I started Zwifting ;)
I totally understand how the difficulty works. The only thing I maintain is - at least on my Elite Suito - Max trainer difficulty seems significantly harder than real-life. I have a 52X28 low gear on my bike. In the real world, while tough, I can manage to get up 9-10% grades with the gearing I have. I can't in Zwift. In my lowest gear, a 10% grade is really a stand on the pedals struggle! I tried MAX at first because I wanted the closest thing to a real-world experience. But steep grades are just too much. I've turned it down to about 60% and it's more manageable. Easier than buying a new cassette too.
This difference could be related to your weight and the protocol you use to connect. If you're using Bluetooth and haven't set that within the Elite MyETraining app, it will be way off if you're well either side of 75kg.
WOAH, that effect is FREAKY!!
My card flip? Or just Zwift in general? Either way, I agree. :)
Shane Miller - GPLama The flipping thing! It was kinda Max Headroomish if you’re old enough to know what that means!
@@moodtherapist Ma-Ma-Ma-Max H-H-Headroom!
That's gotta be a record for ride ons.
Wonderful if Zwift adds shortcut for difficulty on screen or companion, easier for manipulating the ride instead of 3 , 4 steps to adjust it
Ok so it doesn't make it "easier". Thanks Shane, needed that clearing up :)
At zero trainer difficulty you can basically single speed races and pedal harder downhill. It's a big advantage.
Dosen't feel that way. I find that at zero difficulty, I need to put out more power to match people's speeds, and often cannot catch them as I max out the gears. When I increased trainer difficulty, it is harder, but I move faster uphill. In other words, it is still a significant workout either way, unless one is content at going at 3kmh uphill.
Hi shane we need a test about when makes it sense in race changing bike in jungle and when not, people are so confused and different opinions about this 😂
Love a video explaining it...only for all the comments to then try and explain it. Again 😂
During zwift races it's much easier to maintain watts on decent with trainer set to zero. It's a good idea for Zwift to make that setting fixed for races.
If you have the slider set to 100% you just have to shift up to maintain watts.
Once I tried to descend with 100% difficulty from radio tower with 1k w short burst. That spinning 20lbs flywheel scared shit out of me and my cat. I never do that again. And that's only half downgradient? OH MY..
Fantastic vid! Actually knowing that it's telling the trainer a different gradient helps SO much with understanding this pain in the arse setting. Although having used zwift for 2 whole weeks now I can already tell this half of a half thing was an unintended outcome from sloppy design that they probably won't fix, lol. I'm loving zwift, but damn the coding appears to be garbage.
Very usefull to people that use zwift with 1x11 speed mtb
Any difference in feel of pedalling resistance on flat roads or high-wattage sprints?
video anda sangat bagus dan mempunyai mesej yang luas terima kasih
I think the real question is.... Do you still have to produce the same amount of Watts to travel a known distance with the difficulty changed. That would solve all disagreements
I have noticed when you coast at around 15kph down hill sometimes your avatar will put the brakes on to stop rather to gather speed happens once in a while.
Is the difficulty setting if you're doing a predetermined training session different to this? (up and down arrows in the companion app if you are doing a training ride). Thanks for the video as usual!
The Trainer Difficulty setting has no impact on ERG mode.
A good test also would be climbs and descent in a bunch......other sensation too
Nice and clear. So whatever 'difficulty' setting, the downhill speed if not pedaling, or even in supertuck, would remain the same....
Sick vid Llama! Wish my content could be as awesome as yours 😀 Keep spitting out more videos, if you'll pardon the pun ;)
@shane how did you put the Kickr score in under Zwift gradient?
Great vids 👏
This is taken from the Wahoo app and inserted into the video later on.
Thanks Shane. Great Video. One question. What happens to your gradients at 0% trainer difficulty? 100% = 100% / 50% (up/down) of the gradient. 50% = 50%/25%. 0% = 0%/0%?
Yes.
As a new owner of the Kickr Bike, I would love to see Zwift offer more customization than just one "trainer difficulty" setting. I would be nice if ascent resistance, descent, resistance, ascent tilt, and decent tilt were all separately adjustable.
Agreed and discussed on a recent episode of the ZwiftCast podcast I'm on.
I'm sure it varies a lot on preference, but I saw somewhere that most Zwift racers set the difficulty between 20% and 40% to get the a balance of having a little more resistance on hills to push against, while still being able to put power down over the top of and down hills as well. I've found that with it set too low I lose position on short, punchy hills like on Richmond where others can keep it in the same gear and let the "bite" of the resistance change surge their power whereas I have to shift up even on a climb to do the same thing. I'm at roughly 30% now and find it the best balance for me. I don't understand turning it all the way down and making even the Alpe a flat TT, but I guess if you're training for a flat TT…
Turning it down does NOT make the Alpe flat!!! You still have to make the same power to make the avatar a given speed.
I felt that my trainer couldnt cope with fast changes to slope. It was like hitting a brick wall 20 m before the climb and loosing all resistance 20 m before a crest. By lowering the trainer difficulty the transitions got just as smooth as in reality. Im using a Elite Zumo.
Nonchalantly chats about trainer difficulty while holding 300+watts 😃💪👍
While slowly dying a horrible death on the inside. 💀
Excellent explanation. Question... how do you display the Kickr setting on the heads up display?
That was done after recording with another tool. It's not possible in-game.
Shane Miller - GPLama Gotcha Mate. Thx.
This is great info! Does the Trainer Difficulty level get written to any data file, e.g. Zwift Power, etc.? I'm wondering if there is a way to see what setting people are riding at. My old 8-speed cassette doesn't have a real easy cog like other people have. It would even things out if I set mine to 25% when others are at 50%.
Not to the FIT file. Likely there’s logging of this in the Zwift application log.
The only control that Zwift has to control the trainer resistance is the virtual elevation.
The trick in all this is that the wheel speed on your bike is not the same as the wheel speed for your in-game bike. Changing the resistance changes the effective wheel speed for your real bike based on the watts you are putting out. Lower resistance allows higher wheel speed, higher resistance means lower wheel speed. This translates through your gearing to set the cadence your legs see.
In practice, just like with a car, you want to match your torque curve at specific RPM's to optimize the power output. Typically you will put out (comfortably) highest watts for longest when your cadence is between about 60-100 RPM. You can do that with gearing alone or with gearing plus changing the trainer difficulty.
If you do Zwift racing, a 0% difficulty allows you to stay in your big chainring for most of the races. The main reason alot of people do it. As for the trainer warrior comments I guess you would have to ask the guy who won Paris Roubaix after exclusive Zwift training.
I did a race the other day at 0% and you have to keep pedaling constantly and can't coast downhills, i ended up in vo2 for 20 mins and i was toast. The resistance never comes down with 0%. In a real race you are able to take your foot off the pedals sometimes and at 0% it doesn't let off.
Thanks for video. Qq can you free wheel down hill like a real bike?
Yes
Can you compare the trainer difficulty setting to the differential of a car?
So in a 5% descent with the trainer at 100% and pushing 200w I will go faster than with the trainer set at 50% and same grade and watts ? Thanks a lot, great video!
Trainer difficulty has no impact on in-game speed.
Trainer difficulty Zero Gang Represent! Was tired of having to shift down 17 gears (With the power loss associated with a gear change) while cresting a hill in a zwift race. WHile everyone else riding at Zero difficulty gets to apply constant power.
I use my at 50% so that I don't have to shift to the small ring at the front up steeper hills. This means I hardly ever have to shift chainrings making for a much nicer gaming experience.
Mine was at 0% and my gear is permanently on the second fastest gear, including up steep hills. I too, prefer that experience as I adjust my speed using my cadence rather than the gears.
So the speed in relation to watts on the climb stays the same, it just feels easier because there is less resistance?
Exactly. 👍🏼
Shane Miller - GPLama - So then are we cheating ourselves so to speak by keeping the slider around 50%?
@@USCyclist In what way? You still have to put out the power to move your avatar. Whether it is on 100% or 50%, you still have to put out a said wattage to move at a said speed up an incline.
@@norbsy You can cheat yourself up steep climbs by having a higher cadence. On steep climbs i'm on the lowest gear with a cadence of 55, it would be a lot easier if my cadence was near 90 for the same power output.
By the sounds of things, if you are a high cadence sort of person, a lower difficulty setting would suit your riding style (in real life you probably would use easier gears and higher cadence anyway). Whilst being a grinder, you'd do better with a higher difficulty setting. A lower difficulty setting may help increase your cadence whilst a higher difficulty setting would help build some leg strength (assuming you are flicking through gears at a rapid rate to keep your cadence the same for the required watts).
I haven't ever adjusted my difficulty, I'm trying to master the setting and learn how different efforts impact my avatar and my body. One thing I am struggling with is sprinting. In real life I can sprint pretty well, in Zwift at the end of a race I am struggling. I drop down gears and stand up, I feel that maybe if the difficulty setting was lower, I could stay seated and just increase my cadence and spin that flywheel at a rapid rate to produce higher watts (even though my muscles wouldn't feel like they were being hurt as much)..?? Would be interested what setting the guys who consistently win fast races are at and whether they use high cadence to sprint or a big gear...
I have erg mode workouts I start mid ride and tab to finish when you get stuck on a long downhill so I don't waste time sitting around.
If you're in workout mode the gradients don't have any effect on resistance.
I don't put it on 100% because when I'm descending and going about 65-80 km/h in game I am riding 53-14 irl. Then when the gradient rises in game (i.e. the Epic KOM descent) my trainer resistance increases based on the in game gradient, and I have to shift to 39-23 super fast (which would mean 20 km/h @90 rpm) for me to keep a comfortable cadence, while my character is still doing 40+ km/h. This could just be me exaggerating, or they should add some adjustment for momentum in the game.
For me it's all about opening up more hilly courses for my riding enjoyment, without completely blowing myself up, or overstressing my knees. My approach is to decide what I want my minimum cadence to be going up a long hill (for me 70-75rpm). Then what is the lowest gear I want to have to shift into on the bike to maintain that cadence for at least 20 minutes. Set difficulty accordingly.
If you do not want to stress your knees then STOP low cadence riding. There is no reason to do 60 rpm uphill even in real life outside!
@@delkim3691 Sure, so pick a climbing cadence number that works for you and set difficulty accordingly. That was my absolute minimum while climbing only. I'm a mountain biker so I tend to mash anyway :)
@@fattiredbiker4012 SPIN TO WIN ! 90+ Cadence.
BK CheZ Thanks for the advice. So sure, put whatever cadence number you want in there, my point was an approach to set trainer difficulty based on whatever your lowest desired cadence is, in the lowest gear you want to shift to while climbing a significant extended climb.
This is exactly how I use the feature. I typically change the difficulty setting before every ride depending on which course I've selected. I like to have gear and cadence flexibility.
Short question. When I am using a Mountainbike for swift with 1x12 and I feel like I use only the smalles gears. Does it effect my usage of the gears when I switch to more trainer difficulty??
Maybe... that depends on the trainer and your riding style/preference.
Thanks for the video! How can I get the Jersey + Bibs in Mondrian colors on Zwift? Will match my Look 695 bike colors 😄
Level 42 unlocks this kit.
@@gplama I've got to put a lot of hours to get there 💪🏻😅
Gosh not only the 80s masters of slap bass jazz funk but also the key to style in Zwift! No doubt some Lessons in Love will come in handy as well...
There is one more thing that I tested out the other day regarding the trainer difficulty setting is that, the trainers resistance varies not only based on the gradient in-game but also rider weight. For eg., With the trainer difficulty set at max, while riding up a 10% climb, for someone weighing 75kgs the resistance at the fly wheel is lesser than someone doing the same climb at a 100kgs. Therefore, requiring the heavier rider to deal with more resistance on the flywheel by shifting more gears or eventually running out of gears, which in turn results in lesser cadence, therefore more fatigue and energy loss. One more thing I noted is that, the resistance on the flywheel tightens up a lot quicker for the heavier 100kg rider. Zwift therefore at max trainer difficulty, makes a 10% climb feel a lot easier than it actually would in real life for a 50kg rider, and a lot more difficult than that for a 100kg rider.
See my video on this here: th-cam.com/video/edJI8A8SMso/w-d-xo.html
@@gplama yeah I've seen this and I understand how it works based on body weight which makes sense. One thing that would've been nice for Zwift to consider is this... That when a rider hits a climb it should also consider the wattage that the person was putting out just before the climb. This would therefore add in an aspect of momentum into the game. A person doing 100 watts as he hits the climb should have lesser momentum and therefore quicker engagement of resistance on the flywheel compared to the same person doing 400 watts as he hits the same climb. The speed at which the flywheel engages should not be the same. The 400 watts should be accounted for as the flywheel engages resistance to replicate gradient. And not solely on bodyweight and gradient irrespective of power before. This particular aspect works fine for lightweight riders as the resistance isn't much to begin with, but it hits a heavy rider like a brick wall and does not engage based on the riders power before (aka no consideration for momentum)... An example would be to ride through the small bumps in the crit city route at 100kgs. A heavy rider has no chance keeping up with the pack through that sector unless he has a massive kick and leg strength to handle the immediate resistance change.
I would never climb alpe d'Huez with a 39/25 and have no need to have a compact irl so set mine
At about 60%
Would an idea not be able to input your bikes gear irl and what you want to ride in game then Zwift calculates an effective %?
That’d be neat. The Kickr bike (and Neos) could take this a step further with their virtual flywheel too. The other day I switched Kickr Bike virtual gears to a climbing setup for Innsbruck. That was neat. It would be great to do that in-game though. More integration!
it should working with flat also, because i have MTB XC bike, where cassete 10-50t and one star on front 38t. I'm constantly on small stars and arrange all workouts in the mountains. Only ERG mode saves me with Tacx neo 2t...
It would make more sense to double the gradient on descent when difficult is on half than to reduce it. I always stay on max. Why not just send the same value to the trainer as what is displayed? The point is to simulate reality as close as possible. I hope zwift will make this an option. Still the best online simulation and the power based training is incredible.
As Shane explained at the end, it's because many bikes would run out of high gears, so you would be unable to generate much wattage. In real life, it might be desirable to stop pedalling and just coast, but I think for a lot of people on Zwift, they have Wattage targets they want to reach.
0:18 Hopefully no shane millers were harmed in the making of this video (I expect a few broken noses)
So is there an advantage to one setting over another for racing say?
It depends… having more resistance to push against on a downhill is an advantage. You still have to produce the power though.
btw Shane CONGRATS to +100k subscribers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How did you get the kickr climb info on screen?
That was recorded from the Wahoo Fitness app and added as an overlay to this video.
I’m more confused now than I was. So if I’m riding up epic kom at 90rpm doing 250w what’s the difference to me between say 50 and 100%?
Is it just I’m in a different gear physically on the bike?
I’ve just always had it set about 75%.
Watch the video linked to in the description.
Dude ,for my opinion is, make your gear ratio as same as the difficulty sensation!if u use 53-39 11-25,it might very hard to choose “MAX” because you gonna down your RPM ,than you cannot hold that for long and it will be failure , but if you slide the button into the middle, The sensation of gear ratio may be down to 11-28 ,which mean the same gear suddenly much easier to make output, as the same theory,if you move to the MIN.the gear sensation might 11-32 !however, if you watch the video, the presenter with different heart rate and RPM,when he demonstrate max middle min.
There is another setting for wheel circumference. Is this used for wheel-on trainers only or all trainers? What exactly is this used for? My tri bike has 650 wheels but I'm using a Wahoo Kickr with direct drive.
It'll change the speed (and therefore recorded distance) reported directly from the trainer. This is independent of whatever software you're using that likely does its own speed/distance calculations.
Go to Zwift Rider Facebook page. See one of the 23482348 posts about the slider.
Go to this video link
Control C
Control V
Still seems weird to use the word "difficulty" rather than something else. Sure at this point it has become a meme on that group. But I'm sure there are plenty of people that truly do think you directly go faster/slower based on that slider. Also strange that they halve it going down. I mean I get it but it seems they could just have 2 separate sliders. One for up, one for down. And the default set to 100% for up and 50% for down.
I'd probably set mine to about 90% up most of the time (simply due to using wheel on trainer and my trainer wheel has a an 11/28 cassette while my outdoor has an 11/32) and would probably set down to like 20% (so I could feel some change just for immersion but I'd honestly rather just keep pedaling)
Or in group rides (to avoid surging) I'd set around 25% up and 0% down.
I'm hesitant to spam/share my videos over there these days. As you say, it's more a source of memes than being the helpful community it once was.
@@gplama Not wrong. I finally had to hide the page despite the numerous helpful posts from people like you and others. Or seeing people in similar positions to mine making progress (struggling with weight and using cycling as a way to enjoy a different lifestyle).
The recent spike in difficulty slider stuff was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I honestly wanted to cheer for people that get stronger (and therefore FTP increases) and could either like or ignore those posts. But the sheer volume of slider posts made it too hard to find things worth seeing now.
Kind of jealous of the ladies. My wife has told me how useful Zwift Women group is. Sure we get a spike in activity on the Dimension Data group during ZA, but otherwise it is just tens of thousands of people posting the same 10-20 things on the main page now. On the bright side there's still your and Ray's videos for the useful side of all things indoor cycling. And sometimes it can be fun to dive down that rabbit hole on Facebook for a bit.
Hey mate I have a new macbook pro with a kickr 5 and it keeps getting dropouts. I tried using the iphone app and it worked fine. Is this a common problem for the mac app? I just got the kickr yesterday and have only just set it all up. Glad I found out about this difficulty too as it seemed like there was no resistance with the slider on 50%. Cheers man!
One for Zwift Support to dive into the specifics for troubleshooting.
@@gplama cheers legend 👊🏽
so to get down ADZ fast it would be best to put the trainer difficulty to near zero to be able to still make power ( and have gears still) as apposed to 50 or 100%. hmmm new things to try out :)
You will not go faster i think because your gearing will run out like outside.
@@robertg.5932 my understanding from shanes video is if i put it down to near zero difficulty that would make it feel like a 1 or 2% slope so i shouldnt have that issue. i shall test tomorrow morning :)
O.k. make a test, i tested it with 50/100% down adz always the same time, about 11min without pedaling on neo.
Robert G. I tried it on zero and going off the top I didn’t feel the descent. So I could be in the muddle of the cassette going down and pump out 3 to 400 watts. I stopped half way and made it 100% and I had to be in the highest gear just to make 300 Watts peddling quite fast.
About the uphill: Saw your other video on this but I'm still not getting it. So..let's say I'm training for an actual ride up Alp d' huez and using Alp d Zwift as my proxy. If I don't want to be stunned when I finally do the real climb, do I need to train with the slider all the way to the right? In other words, I want to train for an 8% gradient but with the slider set in the middle am I actually training for a 4% gradient? Thanks
Correct.
@@gplama Thanks
Surely that makes it easier then Shane as your only riding up4% would it not have just been easier to force everyone to max then it’s a level playing field still can’t see how somebody riding up an easier gradient is working the same as me? Am I being dumb?
@@stevec2739 Let's say you are climbing - Slider = 100% Watts = 300 Cadence = 60; Slider = 0% Watts = 300 Cadence = 100 Speed = SAME in both examples as the wattage is the same, only your cadence will differ. It's a cadence/amount of shifting selector. Your cadence has zero effect on how fast your avatar is going, only power matters :)
The way I understand it you are still climbing a 8% gradient but you are doing it in a lower virtual gear than is actually on your bike. On steep climbs at less than 100% reality your road speed is less than you would actually have if it was a direct 100% hookup to the ground. This keeps you from running out of gears on uphills and downhills.
ini a clumb the hardest is the same for the biker ?
In downhill with a lower trainer resistance, will your avatar go faster because you can push more watts before spinning out of gears?
Being able to push against something = more watts = more speed.
I know that trainer difficulty doesn't affect climbing time assuming you are putting out the same wattage. However does it make it easier to set a fast time on zero difficulty as you can just stick to a constant effort rather than the fluctuations that occur with changing gradient and gears? I'm thinking here of the longer 20min climbs that have flatter sections. I always keep the difficulty at 100% as I find it makes things more interesting but I've often wondered if 0% would be better if I was trying to get a fast time!
My opinion is yes, you will climb faster with the trainer resistance set to zero given as you stated you don't have to play with shifting gears and can just hold study at whatever high watt level you can hold. Your legs are not getting hit with a buch of resistance changes (assuming hill grade is changing) which add up and take there toll on your legs over a long climb. Also the angular inertia of the trainer flywheel/ bike's back wheel is much higher when producing x watts at no resistance vs x watts with resistance being applied. Easier to hold higher watts under this scenario.
@@Ed-qv2qd thank you. I guess an experiment is required to be sure but that would require at least 2 max effort reps up one of the big climbs and I don't won't to do that! Mr Lama, over to you :)
I want to know what his heart rate is at a sustained 300W, because he's hardly breathing... im 2m and 130kg, going up 8% i'm definitely struggling, hills aren't friendly to me, but I still love them. I do quite well going downhill, love gravity assistance.
Probably not a good idea to slide to 100 if I'm already pushing 34X28 :)
I'm set on 50% and I was always wondering why I've never dropped to the small ring on my climbs. When I got outdoors and hit anything above 6%, I hit the front derailleur and roll on my 36. 11-28. Well I'll try 100 % and see what happens
But it doesn't matter what gear you're in to your legs for any particular power. The lower difficulty is just providing half the resistance to the wheel of the bike. You are setting your gearing to the correct cadence and resistance to your legs. The game is setting the speed based on that. Outside is like the 100% setting but once you select the gearing it should feel the same to your legs and the speed should be similar.
@@sevenrats Disagree. When you are set to lower difficulty in game, it's easier to maintain higher cadence. Training at 100% difficulty prepares you better for real word cycling - climbing in particular. Try going up to the Radio Tower from bottom of the Epic KOM at 50%, then try it at 100%. A lot of people will run out of gears, just as in the real world and then you just have to grind it out. Spinning up there on the big ring with the trainer at 30% isn't an option IRL.
@@ashterfadgadget817 yes all this does is adjust your cassette gearing.
@@osmarq3435 Exactly.
Am new to zwift running my TT rig with a 56T on....so I can use this basically to tackle the climbs? As I won't be able to downshift into the smaller ring???..... cheers. Ben
The BIG DOG! Yep, the slider can be used to make that gearing work a little better for you on the trainer.
@@gplama brilliant thanks alot mate! Cheers.
What I'm trying to workout is what is the best difficulty setting for racing - specifically for not getting dropped at unexpected times. It seems that at 100% you may have sharper spikes in resistance when the gradient changes suddenly (and have to change more gears) but this will likely result in you spiking your power which in turn will help you keep up with the pack. A lower difficulty setting would not result in the spike in resistance and you might not notice until it's too late and get dropped and have to work hard to get back on. I've been using 50% but I think I'm going to try 100% now. Thoughts?
bob chew At 100% versus 50% you'll just need to change through more gears. If shifting down 2 gears instead of 1 would cause you to spike your power more for some reason, then I guess it could help.
I have been riding at 100% difficulty for some time and I much prefer it. I think it just feels much more like in real life. I'm a small guy and I think riding at harder difficulty is good climbing training. For the bigger guys, who are fast on flat bits and only care about big wattage and speed, it might be less of a help. In races, I think it can give you an edge because you can use the undulations to your advantage - particularly if you know the course well.
Main issue I see are with hill crests where gradient goes from positive to neg quickly. The several cog shifting itself is enough to already lose position to those at 0%
I am relatively new to Zwift and typically race Mountain Bikes IRL. My take on your statement and query is: Adjust the difficulty based on your style of riding/racing and to your strengths. If you love to TT and push big constant Watts, then I would recommend selecting the lowest setting would be best…and you would not be changing through the gears (similar in TTing). At the other extreme, if like me you are always changing through gears like in MTB'n or undulating terrain, then slide up the scale toward 100%. You will also get the full-blown effect and effort required to push hard where needed. This mostly suits me as I prefer shorter max efforts with small recovery moments. Ultimately it comes down to the coarse and your strengths/weaknesses etc... Would you agree #ShaneMiller-GPLama ? PS: another consideration to change the slider could be for recovery riding sessions and pacing settings for group rides. #shanemiller, do you know what the PRO racers typically use when racing???
does the speed change when difficulty is changed or just resistance to the trainer?
No, there is zero impact on the in-game virtual speed. That's all w/kg.
Shane Miller - GPLama thanks guess I’m gunna ride on full difficulty from now on then good challenge
@@gplama my guess is that the instant speed is a formula using these variables (watts, watts per kg, grade, CDA, frontal draft coefficient, rear-wheel sucker draft coefficient ).
Yes, I oversimplified. But trainer difficulty isn’t factored into the speed equation.
SIMPLE IN ONE SENTENCE: trainer difficulty only means how OFTEN you have to SHIFT! same power, same speed!!!
It changes the gear you will be in to create the correct cadence and power for any particular gradient. At 50%, the gear will be higher, the flywheel will spin faster, your cadence and power are the same and so is the in game speed.
How is 3% half of 10%?
How does this affect the hack of amending the wheelbase figure in the Wahoo app to give you true gradient feel on the Wahoo Climb?
Good question. I’ll need a coffee first. All you need to start with is Zwift will send full uphill gradient at MAX and 1/2 the downhill.
Shane Miller - GPLama Fair enough 👍🏻 Useful to know but I won’t be losing any sleep over it!😂
Clear as mud, thanks
No problem 👍
I'm thinking of getting a Neo 2T. So the ability it has to power you downhill up to a max of -5%, is actually only a max of -2.5% on Zwift?
Yes. But the downhill drive is not all that useful.
@@gplama I thought it might not be that much of a benefit as most trainers still accelerate on downhills whether you're pedalling or not anyway. Saying that, a Kickr Core I got last month stopped on downhills as soon as you stopped pedalling. I sent it back!
I might just save myself £400 and buy a Saris H3. I've just got an Elite Tuo and think it's very, very good but want better... but I always do ;-)
I've just orderd a Neo 2T today so I'll see what they are like this week.
this all works well in "repeatable efforts .. climb the same virtual hill 10 x over and in racing where the decent can be ridden at higher raw wattage which in zwift means greater speed which means ... you are covering gorund faster ...
which is why others fly past you on decents in racing because they are fudging they difficulty in order to gain an advantage
That’s another topic. Subjective response to the effort. If trainer difficulty was an issue they’d have to standardise it in races. And also ensure everyone was on the same gearing…. and the same trainers (as not all trainers simulate gradient equally).
I've always understood the Trainer Difficulty setting to be a way to "virtually" change ones gearing ratios. The bike on my Wahoo is geared 54/42 - 11x25. Absolutely perfect gearing for me on the flat rollers in the real world here in Central Texas. But, there's simply no way I could ride up the Alp de Zwift with that kind of gearing at my age (51). I'd have to swap out the cogs at minimum and likely go with a compact chainset. I don't want to change out my chainset and cogs for a ride like that. So, the trainer difficulty turned down to 50% makes it "feel" like I've done that though. Would it be cheating in real life to use my gravel bike and it's ratios (42t - 10x44) to go up the real Alp d'Huez vs using my road bike with it's ratios (54/42 - 11x25)? This is where I think the confusion comes in. No one would say that because I'm riding different gearing on my gravel bike that the slopes I'm climbing are somehow less because of that. Yet, that's what people on Zwift sure seem to think.
Other than some speculation, I’m still none the wiser on ‘why’ this feature is there. I’d rather there was an option to turn that (poorly named) tuning off completely, for both up and downhill.
Rory Macdonald - Agreed. Why even have this feature? If your going up a 10% grade than that’s what you and everyone else’s resistance should feel like!
Ace Because grinding up a mountain at 60rpm in my easiest gear with no place to go for any respite except dropping down to 50rpm isn't fun. At 80% trainer difficulty I still have a couple of gears to play with and some cadence options.
Some trainers can't reproduce inclines as high as 15% or even 17%. So this setting allows these users to still feel a difference, when the incline goes over their trainers capabilities (like 8%). Also some trainers tend to overheat on low flywheel speeds, so by lowering the TD you increase the effective flywheel speed and therefore the cooling effect (for those trainers, which have a fan attached to the flywheel). Also, it might make it easier to use an old 8-speed bike for Zwift - or to replicate the same gearing / cadence you would have outside.
is it possible to actually see the percentage on the slider or are we all just guessing where we're at?
Nope
Sorry I meant Workout mode!
What happens during the race is the difficulty disabled to make it an even playing field?
No.