I learned the same lesson. I discovered crazy readings several % below emc given my RH/temp and knew it was impossible. Picked up an Orion 930- including the NIST traceable calibration target option shortly afterwards.
There is most definitely meters that cost much less than 500 that are within +/- .5%-1% accuracy. General tools and klien come to mind. You can also use a multi meter and calculate it yourself, those are cheap and even the cheap ones give an accurate reading
That is possible, but as a woodworker using different species of lumber, so I appreciate how the Wagner can take moisture reading specific to a particular wood species. But if you did not need to be precise, a General tools moister meter is better than nothing.
I'm in Furniture Quality Control business and having a 950 series to do controlling on many factories. It's so frustating if a factory using that general cheap moisture meter and me using the specific wagner meter, will be a lot of fight about the MC. Another thing which I think is very best feature of mine is the EMC meter which help a lot, because when exporting the furniture from tropical country to any dry or continental country, EMC is an important key which help to assure all the furniture won't be broken, cracking, splitting on the wood surface and also the joints.
I can imagine the frustration you might have if there is no standard tool to use for measuring the MC in exporting wood, there could be a lot of discrepancies. I couldn't agree more!
The junk one is a "pinless" model. I assume that the pinned meters are more accurate for less cost. IE I can use a cheaper version like "general tools" and get much more accurate results. Still not nearly as good as the $500 dollar version, but not useless like the one in this video. In order to make a meter that doesn't 'damage' the wood it costs more money. Fair?
Vey interesting. I question the expensive Wagner meter's accuracy. I went to their manual and they make no claim about measurement accuracy, just resolution in the reading, which is not related. They might be accurate. They even have a calibration procedure and plate, but the plate is only good for the one meter, which is also strange. why wouldn't a standard be a standard for all meter serial numbers? It would be nice to be able to use an industry standard item to test and see, like most test instruments (like a 10% moisture and a 25% in some density product).
What can't I just hammer two nails into a board of wood to use as electrodes, then attach a simple ten dollar voltmeter, take readings of resistance, voltage, whatever, and then extrapolate from that, what sort of moisture level is present?
That pretty much all it is. BUT you need a standard by which to calibrate it, which is different for every species or material. And the depth of the pins must remain the exact same, as well a temperature. Good only for an experiment, not for reality.
But how do you know which one shows the correct value? The one which is more expensive because it’s more expensive? This test is completely irrelevant as you have no reference at all
Fair enough question. The reference is the wood and the environment it has been in recently. In the video, I show thick slabs of cedar that have been in storage under a covered area, yet exposed to very humid conditions of Oregon fall / winter weather. Wood cannot be 2-3% moisture content in these conditions, it acclimates with the current environment until it finds an equilibrium point. Even after putting these slabs of wood in a kiln for weeks to dry them out, they would still only achieve 6-12% moisture content. So that was the big red flag that caused me to find out what was going on with the first moisture meter. Trust me, I was not planning to shell out $400 for this more expensive tool just for the fun of it, but until I had a more precise measurement of the condition of the lumber I was using, I would be just blindly hoping they were dry enough, and that was not something I wanted to risk.
With that determination you would never have me as a client. I speak with almost six decades experience in the custom woodworking industry. 6% - 8% is the standard. You do know that many newcomers read these comments - posting such inaccurate statements such as yours invalidates the educational value of TH-cam.
I learned the same lesson. I discovered crazy readings several % below emc given my RH/temp and knew it was impossible. Picked up an Orion 930- including the NIST traceable calibration target option shortly afterwards.
A hard lesson to learn 👍
I'm glad I watched this. I have a cheapish meter with pins. I might just bite the bullet and get the good one because I want to build high end stuff.
It’s definitely worth it if you are sourcing your own lumber and slabs.
After watching dozens of moisture meter reviews, you are the first one who actually knows what they're talking about. Good video.
There is most definitely meters that cost much less than 500 that are within +/- .5%-1% accuracy. General tools and klien come to mind. You can also use a multi meter and calculate it yourself, those are cheap and even the cheap ones give an accurate reading
Thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for.
Glad it helped!
You may have got a lemon general tools pin meter..??. I have a both. A Wagner mmc 205 and general Tools $20-50 special/ both read about the same.
That is possible, but as a woodworker using different species of lumber, so I appreciate how the Wagner can take moisture reading specific to a particular wood species. But if you did not need to be precise, a General tools moister meter is better than nothing.
I'm in Furniture Quality Control business and having a 950 series to do controlling on many factories. It's so frustating if a factory using that general cheap moisture meter and me using the specific wagner meter, will be a lot of fight about the MC.
Another thing which I think is very best feature of mine is the EMC meter which help a lot, because when exporting the furniture from tropical country to any dry or continental country, EMC is an important key which help to assure all the furniture won't be broken, cracking, splitting on the wood surface and also the joints.
I can imagine the frustration you might have if there is no standard tool to use for measuring the MC in exporting wood, there could be a lot of discrepancies. I couldn't agree more!
The junk one is a "pinless" model. I assume that the pinned meters are more accurate for less cost.
IE I can use a cheaper version like "general tools" and get much more accurate results. Still not nearly as good as the $500 dollar version, but not useless like the one in this video. In order to make a meter that doesn't 'damage' the wood it costs more money.
Fair?
Am I wrong or did he set the cheap meter to hardwood... for cedar ?
Thank you, this was very helpful and informative.
Glad it could help!
Vey interesting. I question the expensive Wagner meter's accuracy. I went to their manual and they make no claim about measurement accuracy, just resolution in the reading, which is not related. They might be accurate. They even have a calibration procedure and plate, but the plate is only good for the one meter, which is also strange. why wouldn't a standard be a standard for all meter serial numbers? It would be nice to be able to use an industry standard item to test and see, like most test instruments (like a 10% moisture and a 25% in some density product).
Wholesome ending.
Who makes cedar furniture?
You need the wood lifted off another material by at least an inch according to wagner.
Yes, you are exactly right. I probably should have done this during the video, but it would only affect it by a few percent.
@@RossCustomWoodFurniture not necessarily, it depends on what it detected below the wood
What can't I just hammer two nails into a board of wood to use as electrodes, then attach a simple ten dollar voltmeter, take readings of resistance, voltage, whatever, and then extrapolate from that, what sort of moisture level is present?
There’s many ways to skin a cat, and no one says you can’t do it your own way 👍
That pretty much all it is. BUT you need a standard by which to calibrate it, which is different for every species or material. And the depth of the pins must remain the exact same, as well a temperature. Good only for an experiment, not for reality.
But how do you know which one shows the correct value? The one which is more expensive because it’s more expensive? This test is completely irrelevant as you have no reference at all
Fair enough question. The reference is the wood and the environment it has been in recently. In the video, I show thick slabs of cedar that have been in storage under a covered area, yet exposed to very humid conditions of Oregon fall / winter weather. Wood cannot be 2-3% moisture content in these conditions, it acclimates with the current environment until it finds an equilibrium point. Even after putting these slabs of wood in a kiln for weeks to dry them out, they would still only achieve 6-12% moisture content. So that was the big red flag that caused me to find out what was going on with the first moisture meter. Trust me, I was not planning to shell out $400 for this more expensive tool just for the fun of it, but until I had a more precise measurement of the condition of the lumber I was using, I would be just blindly hoping they were dry enough, and that was not something I wanted to risk.
Holy crap haha that's actually shocking!
Yeah, no kidding!
You need another meter, then take the average. Lol
500$ and needs reference why? very cheap software!!!
anything below 19% is acceptable
With that determination you would never have me as a client. I speak with almost six decades experience in the custom woodworking industry. 6% - 8% is the standard. You do know that many newcomers read these comments - posting such inaccurate statements such as yours invalidates the educational value of TH-cam.