2021 Usage Stats Discussion | Warframe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
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This discussion is from a little while ago but I thought it'd be interesting enough to share.
Remember just because you like the frame now doesn't mean it shouldn't also be good or well designed!
I said it on the chroma vid and I think it's worth a repeat but to your point of chroma being overused. I main chroma. I could not give less of a shit about his kit. I play chroma because having played with every frame in the game I find the fact that randomly content is just immune to a frame is irritating and it's easier to just make the gun better because I guarantee the gun will always kill the thing. I wish I could play full caster frames but 99% of them hit a point where oops this boss/enemy/whatever is just immune to your whole kit OR are designed like dooky and don't feel fun to play
@@khendon5558 buffing stats like a mod does seem to be both the least broken buff and is never fucked with by BS enemy exceptions, also he has a history of reworks to how the buff scaling worked. And it also works on allies. He definitely has his users but not as fun as the other frames you use for buffs and definitely fails at direct damage.
I'm guessing this discussion is before the Yareli augment rework as you say Yareli is good in that video. My question is do you think that Yareli will see increased play because of that or is she still not a good enough frame?
@@brandendunagan8822 Probably not good enough to move the needle meaningfully but maybe a bit
That's my feelings on valkyr, she should have at least 3 good abilities(maybe lifesteal without claws, and a lot of extra armor or something)
I was clearing Steel Path map, was mostly solo, untill a guy joined in with Octavia. When the mission was ending he said: "Im dead inside using this shit but you do what you gotta do". I laughed so hard xD
I completely flatten Steel Path with Vauban. People don't know what's good.
@@HaveYouTriedGuillotines from my experience vauban is known for being one of the best for steel path and especially for farming.
@@detonater7441
Yet he's constantly at the bottom of tier lists.
The almighty SUCC power
@@HaveYouTriedGuillotines pretty sure that's just brozime at this point
Aaawwww yeah, an almost 2 hour discussion about stats, didn't know the night was going to get this wild!
The stats really made me realize thay there's only 5 secondary weapons in the game
Melee is still king and will never be dethroned, because warframe is a fast game, 98% of the Guns cant compete in terms of damage and speed, DE has no clue waht they are doing. and the only ussages guns see is in endurance runs and ppl leveling them. thats the sad reality and to top it all off. after de is puting out a nerf for some guns that are "overused" ppl move on to the next best thing while meele stays at it is.
@@Votexforxme the game really needs heavy autoaim for the generic braton-style guns, explosives are decent but a really sidegrady sidegrade to melee uuhich feels kinda houu it should bar QOL the entire game needs
Headshots deal True Damage? Would that fix things for single target guns?
@@mightza3781 hs ignoring armor would make armor strip for weapons kinda useless, but i like the idea.
@@joannawood7352 soft-lock on the nearest enemy head when aiming would be fine, they can do it, the last Gunnery intrinsic "Reflex Aim" practically does it.
Zephyr is what the game needs because she makes single target weapons into AOE. She's nuts with slash based machineguns and She really *FLEW* under the radar with the buffs she got
I think it's because her kit doesn't directly deal damage outside of the divebomb gimmick augment thing, so people just attributed her as having the same problems as old frames, and called it a day.
Yeah, I've been getting back into the flappy frame after I found out about the airburst fix and that you can hold down your 4 to stick them in place. She's basically immortal until the leech and poison eximus units starts hiding in nearby closets so you can't find and kill them fast enough, and sucking the entire tile into your crosshairs and letting loose with punchthrough weapons is great.
It's always gratifying to see the Bird get the recognition she deserves, I personally think what makes her successful is the lack of build intensity, like she really doesn't ask that much from you, survival? Check, CC?, then there is the fact she's really not that build intensive so you can play around what comfort mods or augments you want.
I see what you did there.
Is she good with Synapse? I love that weapon, so that's why I ask.
The problem with warframe is that you brute force everything. you don't go into defence missions thinking about defending a target, a capture mission to capture a target or a survival mission to survive. it's always about who kills fastest or moves the fastest so while it may seem like there's a bunch of mission types there's really only two (three if you count interception but just close your eyes and pick a frame for that it'll work out) and of these two the majority is speed (capture, exterminate, mobile defence, rescue, sabotage, spy) so obviously you pick the fastest frame.
Make capture targets actually hard to capture and remove their CC immunity you'll use more CC frames, make it so the target doesn't run if he doesn't see you or add a bonus to undetected captures to encourage stealth, make defence targets actually hard to defend you'd use defence frames, make rescue targets hard to keep alive you'll use support frames, make survival missions hard to survive you'll use tank frames.
Come to think of it, most of the missions in this game are odd. Like why is the VIP unguarded or has little to no gadget to defend himself , why there are such weak counter measures in rescue mission.
@@ceapaverde1288 put 5-6 different units in the last room give then 20-30 levels over the regular mission level, make them try to chase and kill the rescue Target. You can kill them CC them or heal the target and maybe make them reflect projectiles so if you just hit them with something big like the kuva zarr it'll bounce off and it might one shot the rescue Target.
YES , THIS ; DE does not know how to design any kind of non-brute-force game-play-style =/
@@kirkalmeida ya think 20-30 levels above mission will stop me from vaporizing them?
@@ceapaverde1288 1 minute execution timer and an army guarding them isn't low, it would be more than enough to hold off normal people.
The problem is that Tenno might as well be gods for all most people can do to them.
I farmed ivara for spy , took nearly 200 runs to get her, most soulless grind so far , then I didn't know you needed the syndicate mod to dodge lazers, so that took another few months.
Then I was all proud sneaking around and a wukong turned up and did the same vault ahead of me in seconds.
I asked how hard it was to get wukong, "just from the dojo" they said.
Heartbroken.
How are you still alive?
@@mechbean6953 haha. Oh I'm alive alright. I just walk around with a bruised soul
@@BuzzaB77 pure spite
ivara will always be the fishing frame. we always have that.
Most soulless grind, BOI go farm for lhora for 6 months and not getting the system until your clanmate gifts you khora
You will never know true pain till you go through that
You're absolutely right about Baruuk - I'm MR17 and can't be bothered to do Fortuna but I *do* really want Baruuk, and would probably use him if I got him...
Agree from me. I played the shit out of Cetus and Deimos. Fuck Fortuna. Particularly fuck that Fortuna's 2nd syndicate requires rank 5 in the 1st syndicate.
@@cortesacrawford that seems to be partially broken because of the parvos quest that needs you to access that room regardless of solaris united so it lets you in the room and duck will talk to your tenno.
I'm saddened by fortuna. Concept wise, I love it but theres so much dated shit that just needs to be worked on
@@throwdown1776 I think every open world needs Deimos token system. Properly balanced of course.
Because currently no open world has bounties, fishing, mining, and conservation equally beneficial. But Deimos is the closest, even though I think Bounties are a bit too far ahead of their bretheren in terms of token gain.
But the Token system is great because DE can keep their standing cap while players can farm to their hearts desire.
@@cortesacrawford honestly, I feel like daily standing should be removed. It sucks that I have a specific type of standing daily when there already are requisites to get specific items in order to rank up. I would like to see it more how modern MMOS go where you get 2x but after a time, you get the regular amount
as a mag main, mag is a terrible starter. mag becomes good when you have a very good understanding of warframe mechanics, and have access to a lot of not noob friendly to acquire mods. i think having removed from the starter roster would help her immensely.
Did DE fix the alternative mode of her absorb/bullet magnet? Last time I played it only worked if you channeled it and turned your side or back to the enemy.
@@Poppenheimer69 the alternate mode of magnetize is purely for aesthetics and useless. You still drop a mag bubble and throw punch through projectiles into it
@@frodothehobo9938 so they still haven't fixed it LMAO Too busy making new skins I guess
Bake Energy Siphon into the core baseline instead of an Aura mod. The Aura just becomes additional energy recovery. Non-existent energy recovery early game makes every Caster frame a noob trap. Early game, a Warframe is just a sack of ehp.
they cant really change the starters anymore because of the opening cinematic
Zephyr's rework made her a great frame and I feel her rework should be a benchmark for further reworks. Give to Pablo...Pablo fix.
We just to let him retackle atlas with as much freedom as he can have, after years of fixing shit he's gotten so much better at it
DE pls buff Pablo
Your comment on Inaros is pretty on point. I've had him as my main for years, and yeah it's a comfort thing. Sure, he's abysmal for endurance emissions or level cap (to the point of you'd never use him), but for everything else he just makes the game trivial because nothing can really stop you. Slam Gloom on him and it's just hilarious how easy it makes it, just to shut off and not care.
But, as I said, endurance and level cap, and everyone hates him.
I used to be in that boat, but then I found Nezha and he's immortal and useful.
I wouldn’t say he makes everything that’s not endurance trivial , he just works and provides a decent safety net for players. I think of him like a simple holistic solution to every problem, just not the best at anything.
Yeah same here honestly, i can do all the content without a problem and just chill. Plus his fashion is on point and thats a big reason why i cant bring myself to use another frame,i absolutely love how my inaros looks
Frost is the first frame I built after my starter, and carried me through several years of cinematic quests.
His usage has long since been eclipsed by Wisp, but he'll always be my first favorite. I hope he gets a rework someday.
before Wisp, Gara already made frost completely redundant
@@laszloneumann500 True, but Gara's playstyle and ability management never really clicked for me, so when Frost stopped being useful I moved on to trying other non-defense frames.
What exactly happened? Did a rework go wrong?
@@rensten4893 no its just that what frost provides is relatively meaningless in the content that is worth doing while he has poor mobility, survivability, no nuke potential or meaningful buff.
He can keep excavators safe from starchart level enemies ok...but what else? Nothing
And when most of the good rewards are in content where you cant predict if there will be a defense point, or is way too high level for frost or is in an environment where your globes just have no use.
The very problem is that Frost got *no* rework that went wrong where he desperately needs one
Even when he was "meta" it was simply because he kept an objective safe because enemies didnt have the damage to get through his globe while at the same time players didnt have the killspeed with optimized ability setups that they do now with simply equipping a kuva aoe weapon with a midtier modbuild.
In that environment there was a room for frost even if quite an ignoble one. Nowdays you are just "there" making it look like you are helping while really you are only as good as the primary weapon/melee you have on you except that you are very easy to kill
@@rensten4893 Laszlo hit the nail on the head. It's a combination of several factors:
- Primarily that Snowglobe is both irrelevant for most modern gametypes, and one of the objectively worst options when compared to other defensive abilities.
- Frost is a Warframe pretty much only designed for the Star Chart, when we now have much stronger enemies added since then (open worlds, Railjack, Steel Path) who shred both Frost and his globes.
- Player strategies have changed, gameplay is much more mobile and aggressive, the best objective defense in 2022 is now a good offense (nuke abilities and AOE weapons)
- The fact that Cold as an element is mostly useless now, and most strong enemies you'd want to use it on are immune to being frozen anyways, pretty much eliminating the usefulness of Frost's other 3 abilities
I doubt any rework could fix all of these issues, but I've seen a lot of good ideas that would go a long way to making Frost playable again while keeping his signature style.
Oberon, Trinity, and Equinox were duking it out on the hill of support frames until Wisp came one day and just absolutely CLAPPED them with how insane useful her kit is.
Trinity and Equinox were able to make it out alive and retreat to their niche caves. But Oberon, oh poor Oberon, he was mutilated by Wisp and pissed on by the helminth system giving his one redeeming augment to everyone.
Honestly he just needs tweaks to his numbers and a new passive
How is smite's augment good?
@@Pachyderm3 it gives you free radiation dmg
@@Peter-rc9qy How is that his redeeming augment?
@@Pachyderm3 cause more damage
He's a niche for endurance arby defenses, since the 3 aug reses the defense target. And that - is the only use of oberon I'm aware of.
I am a Nezha main, with about 50% usage stats, YES, and his passive the one of the most fun things I can confirm, it fits his kit and the lore he's made from and it's a good evasion tool. Nice video man, also tone that music down it was kinda annoying at some parts tbh.
Shoutout to warframe for being one of the only online games i think ive ever seen where a support character is overwhelmingly played and enjoyed by the community. I think wisp is perfectly fine as is and should maybe even be used to sell the game a bit more (include her in promo material shots etc.) Because that really is a cool niche the game is offering
I actually fear for wisp nerf because she's such a buff stick, though has other fun uses, but we know how's DE with this sort of stuff
@@almostmidnight232 Hope not, in steel path she is fun but I have to be careful. She is not really a tank.
The thing is, most support characters are pretty squishy, not very damaging, and are focused around keeping a team alive. Wisp just isn't the first 2, and the 3rd is as easy as "place health mote near teammates". She doesn't really play like a support character at all.
Wisp is not a support, wisp is a warcrime with infinite damage and survivability
Oh yeah, Wisp is hella fine... *Bites lip*
After 800hrs I had never done the ropalolist , finally decided to give it a go last year, when I tried it there was a guy chaperoning people through the fight, I got really unlucky with the drops, and he still stuck around helping till the small hours, I was really thankful to him and he was like "no problem we need more wisp players"
So I always had it in my head wisp wasn't farmed much... Apparently not!
He wants to see more of that booty frame lol
Wisp is a farm cause of her ass her kit or her subsume. I know 4 people that only play her for her ass. She is indeed farmed alot
Alot of people just spend the plat to buy her. Need a strong mote to farm that boss effectively, so people just shell out the money to get her. Thing is she really is that good too that people will do it.
And a second note, when I saw the Zephyr numbers I was like "WHY?!". Her CC is busted, she is near invincible since she repels damage away from her, and even defense targets if you build range high. She is fantastic.
The only thing I can guess is the same logic that people can't get out of old habits, like Inaros or Frost. People remember Zephyr being meh and haven't picked her up again.
I've been using zephyr for every excavation and defense type mission in the game no matter the level and she's never failed me once, turbulence can get some disgusting range. inb4 "just use limbo lol"
I suspect when she was easily available people scrapped her, when she was unvaulted people farmed to sell, and with Prime Resurgence people were all about farming Loki parts instead.
People get to a certain MR and know what they like, not really stepping outside of their comfort zone. I've got a roster of 6 maybe 7 frames and I rarely step outside of it, even though I know there are good frames I'm ignoring.
Pretty sure the numbers also reflect her use pre rework, so the data is a bit skewed.
I used her for a long time back in the day, was one of my most played. She is really underrated.
@@Joe90h but isn't that boring? I'm not one to go against the meta necessarily because sometimes you just have to use what works the best, but I can't imagine playing warframe without trying out new things. I can barely use my kuva aoe weapons for more than 2 missions without getting bored of them. same with frames
I feel like warframe should add mini bosses that have phases where combat styles happen to change within each phase would add challenging moments in the game
Die-hard banshee main here. You get used to being made of paper very early. You end up gaining good habits that keep you from dying often, and when you swap off banshee two things happen.
You miss her damage and you feel invincible survival-wise. Your habits go so much farther on other frames than Banshee, it's just mandatory for her to live. But her damage makes everything paper, it actually spoils you. You don't need a properly modded weapon for her, so it's easy to take mods for granted when playing her such that when you switch off you hurt.
That aside, Banshee's really strong. Like, unreasonably so. That's all she does though. She kills things real good. In a game where lots of things kill things really good. It's a little unfortunate that her best trait doesn't super standout. If you want to wake up and have adrenaline pumping, Banshee's one of the best frames for that. She gives you a minigame to play (shoot the sonar), that you need to play well or you die because you're not killing things fast enough.
Due to the second paragraph, it's actually hard to stop playing Banshee once you're used to her.
Also yeah, going to use the werewolf frame. No shame.
The Nidus pack was also on the front page of the market for the longest time, so new players who play other games would assume it was a meta frame.
Since the chart data is based on time spent playing, I assume the Frost numbers are coming from them spending an hour doing 20 waves of defense, whereas most of the good frames can complete relevant missions in a reasonable time.
That, or their 3 key broke mid-mission so they paused the game overnight to order a new keyboard.
Thats actually a very interesting point! Although based on that logic it makes the wukong stats even scarier considering how little time hes actually spends per mission lol
Also pyrana prime is second used due to plague star coming back, and it was a popular choice for the fight.
Damm I missed plague star
I know that Broz laser focuses on the ease of use and effectiveness side of the play spectrum, and I love him for that, but I think it would be helpful to give a nod to some of the competing ideas/styles every once in awhile. I'll use Nyx as an example. Yes, she is gimmicky. Usually she comes off as merely average. However, she starts becoming a powerhouse towards rotation C of endless Steel Path missions, or anything past a few rounds deep of Disruption. A lot of frames start really coming into their element once you step past speed running fissures or exterminate missions.
Also, as someone who still likes playing Frost, Loki, and Limbo a good portion of the time, there is a lot of enjoyment and comfort to be found in a methodical approach. Disarming, freezing, or locking down whole tiles and dealing with enemies and objectives at your leisure is a fun alternative to "gotta go fast" or "piano player" type loadouts.
TLDR: I love you Brozime, and your builds reflect how most of us actually want to play. Just throw a nod out the other ways sometimes.
I know exactly what you mean. I would argue that Broz doesn't play the game for fun, and not that he doesn't find it fun, but the drive for optimization and efficiency takes a greater priority for him as a player. Warframe is the type of game where this is a natural progression, so I don't blame him for it.
That's probably because DE focused on the power fantasy.
That's the core fanbase. DE literally has the potential to be the best F2P game, but it isn't even the best Shooter looter.
I can rarely make it to streams, so I'm thankful for when you post these
I'm actually kind of baffled that neither Brozime nor anyone present in his chat seems to know how busted Hildryn has become since Gloom became a Helminth ability or the addition of Helminth in general to a degree, but especially Gloom. She is pretty much the only frame that can easily - without sacrifices, since she doesn't care about efficiency and wants to build high strength anyways - maintain a 95% Gloom AND has defense strip that restores your "energy". Like, what do you think happens to armorless (or low), shieldless (or low) enemies that move at 5% of their regular speed that also get stunned for ages from Blazing Pillages heat proccs while at 5% speed? The last thing is basically the whole Gloom/Silence thing from Banshee people seem to get excited by - just perfect to build for as Hildryn, arguably better and and less clunky.
In general the fact that Hildyrn has a completely different "energy" economy and scaling when it comes to abilities where the effect scales with energy spent while having pretty much infinite "energy" without needing anyone or anything to achieve that aside from enemies around her (against infested you run a protect doggo) opens up builds other frames dream of. She can pull of (mainly) strength builds most frames don't get away with due to energy restrictions.
Try Voracious Metastasis on her and you have energy regen for your team on the levels of EV. Not as relevant as it used to be to be fair.
Elemental Ward (shield version) on her is also pretty neat for your every day starchat pug mission/fissure.
Cherry on top: "You get a free three seconds shieldgate and you and you!" and the Railjack thing, I guess.
Aside from Limbo, she pulls off some of the currently most busted stuff I've seen/played in a while when it comes to just within the frame's kit itself. Sure, I can also remove my primary slot by equipping the Argonak to dagger down mobs with gas damage or what have you, but I also could just smash immobile, defenseless statues with whatever I want while literally dancing infront of them for like 30 seconds.
Source: my 9% Hildryn playrate after ~5K hours.
To be fair, I'm kind of glad that the majority of people still seems to sleep on her if I go by this discussion. That keeps her as it is. I enjoy playing the game in extra easy mode.
The only bad thing is that you are still stuck with keeping Aegis Storm or Balefire Charger in her kit.
I played a kuva survival fissure mission, and had one rando go "Mr 23 and he brings hyldrin?" He left at 5 minutes, with 0 kills, and all I could think was "watches Brozime once"
We may see a spike in usage for her when her prime happens next year. I think the Fortuna requirements turn the majority of players away, and there's something to be said for people not wanting to play as "the buff woman with muscles" as well.
She's become my go to for lich/sister farming because she can keep Gloom up indefinitely, strip defenses, and with a sentinel and shield restoring arcanes too she's ridiculous. And then you hop into your railjack and spam seeker volley a bunch before taking them out for good.
@@brokenafro1192 That's insane. I only ever get surprised when high MR players bring non-prime variants of stuff that's easily available. Like, if an MR23 brought a regular Titania instead of Prime and it wasn't for MR fodder I'd ask questions tbh.
@@Joe90h Yeah, I like her design and played her before she was as good as she is now and was totally fine with acknowledging that she was mediocre at best (I hate Aegis Storm and Balefire Charger is decent by itself but outshined by regular weaponry), but if anyone now says she's bad (with Helminth in mind of course), they should revisit her. The moment I saw Sevagoth and heard Gloom was going to be his shared ability I was like: "Oh shit! That's Aegis Storm just in actually damn good because I'm allowed to keep casting Pillage."
The easiest way to improve your last point is I'd Helminth rank 30 was two subsume slots per frame.
15:08 i think people don't use gara for the same reason they don't use octavia and thats micromanaging timers, but in the case of octavia metronome and energizing dash are all you need, but with gara you have to choose to either run naramon to not worry about combo decay and hope arcane energize procs consistently or run zenurik and constantly manage the combo (tho i suppose primary/secondary dexterity has made that alot easier) either that or i too don't know how to use gara
I think thats all valid but personally ive always thought the glass armour as a dps ability has always been a bit gimmicky. I build my gara to have the 90% dr armour but then max my duration and use it as defense only. Ill build the armour up just because thats kind of the loop but if my (insert slash melee) is doing 100k slash procs i dont need the extra damage from the armour.
Alternatively now that guns are good u can just armour and shoot guys and chip out enemies that get too close which means you dont worry about combo counter
As a gara main, yes. That's exactly the annoying part for her. People dislike managing timers.
The thing about Grendel is that DE should have implemented the idea from his original concept where enemies in his stomach take damage whenever he takes damage. Slap on a 2.5x damage multiplier that scales with power strength (same as Octavia's 1), and that combined with the fact that enemies are slowly losing their armor while in his gut would shoot him right up to A tier in damage scaling. Not S tier with Octavia, but a solid A tier.
As an added bonus, why not make it so that the damage dealt this way is accumulated as additional damage for Regurgitate, Pulverize, and the yeet portion of Feast. Give them some more scaling to hopefully up their performance to viable levels. It would ironically give Grendel a sort of masochistic playstyle, but it should work in theory.
I like the design of Octavia's mallet in the sense that it is an ability that actively becomes stronger as the enemies around you become stronger, ensuring it never really falls off.
Frost is one of the Frames that can have 2 elemental imbuing powers. So Smite infusion or Xatas Whisper and Freeze force allows you to replace elementals on crit weapons. Its kinda fun. Idk if thats whats happening but its what I do.
Atlas's landslide already has a decent range and can hit crowds if you're using rubble heap (which is basically mandatory). Punching the tectonics for a an aoe shotgun effect seems a little redundant. It wouldn't be that hard to buff him just by adding a small tweak to each of his abilities.
1.) I think that landslide should be modded separately from his melee weapon like an exalted weapon, because right now it basically just eats your melee slot entirely because you have to build for it specifically.
2.) Tectonics should be a bit wider and curved like volt's shield so you can actually protect objectives with it.
3.) Petrify should be a one handed ability so it doesn't interrupt reload and can be more quickly combo'd into landslide. One of the main things that sucks about playing atlas imo is casting petrify on enemies only for them to be instakilled by faster DPS frames.
4.) Rumblers should draw enemy fire and have the duration removed and simply last until they die or are killed by recasting, and they should be healed by having petrify cast on them.
Hey look up Tremor from Mortal Kombat. Atlas could rip a lot of idea from him. Like they both roll boulders at people already and etc.
So far stat sticks prove to be much better than actual melee exalted weapons i.e. Khora vs Valkyr or Wukong so 1 would probably be a nerf to landslide
@Tomasz Nowopolski pretty sure all 3 of those (only uncertain on Wukong) not only can be modded separately but also do in fact scale off of melee mods. Baruuks 4 does as well and that's why it shreds in SP
Zephyr deserves more. She's extremely fair, nothing broken but just good. She has survivability but she's not INVINCIBLE. She has GREAT crowd control and defensive abilities. She also has amazing damage with her 4 and her passive. She's fun, you get to create tornadoes, blast people with wind, fly and float around and kill everyone.
Her 4 nukes the room
The mirage idea of 2 and 4 activating dark and light respectively sounds great, but I think being able to activate both simultaneously would be fine so long as the drain from doing so is high enough that you wouldn’t want to use it all the time or by making one of the two an area of effect while active instead of always on the frame.
Zephyr is absolutely fantastic and so much fun to play. Happy to keep carrying her play rates up!
It's funny cause Mag is one of my general comfy picks in literally any level range, though I use a 100% disarm build that usually passively survives off spamming magnetize and the occasional rolling guard or crush.
I do think her kit has several issues though, centering the 1 on the bubble you aim at and stopping enemies from flinging out afterwards would be such an incredible change. The protective bubble change they made was also a missed opportunity, it's like Nyx... Only thing it does is mess up my intended input occasionally.
"It might be that people just don't know how to use Gara"
100% accurate
Yeah, I thought the same. Every time I see a Gara in pubs they play her like Frost... and yeah if someone uses her 4 as some sort of Frost bubble it's no wonder they think "meh".
Yeah definitely, lots of times i'm asked why I keep destroying my own walls....
Hildryn usage is probably her Voracious Metastasis build that let's her be better EV Trin.
As a former Frost main, I confirm Frost does indeed sucks.
As a current Zephyr main, she is criminally underrated.
About Wukong, here is how I would tackle the situation:
- Buff his stick.
- Mirage style of clones.
Wukong is weird in Warframe. On one hand he is busted and should probably get nerfed, on the other he is one of the best designed warframes in terms of "capturing the essence". Wukong is essentially a demi-god so it is expected for him to be stupidly strong.
Wukong's first issue is that his clone is good enough to do the work for Wukong himself. Wukong's second issue is that he is designed for melee combat but actually better in long range combat and stealth. Wukong's entire kit is "place clone, give him a gun, make sandwich" or "go cloud, enter vault, exit vault, successful spy". This means that Wukong doesn't encourage melee gameplay enough.
Buffing his stick will help encourage melee combat.
Now imagine the first ability acting more like Mirage's 1. Mirage's clones act only when Mirage herself act and in perfect sync. In order to make it unique, imagine that instead of having Wukong's clone always present for a duration, every time he attacks a clone will pop up nearby, repeat that attack and disappear. Instead of having an always present clone that act independently, the clone will show up for a double hit and that's it.
"That headshot didn't quite do it? Clone is there to try again!". "You melee that Steel Path bombard? Allow me to help!". "Dude, I'm not your bodyguard. If you won't do anything, I won't do anything".
I actually wanna see the Protea like Subsume stats cuz she's gotta be like one of the top subsumes jsuf cuz you can out Dispenser and primed flow anyone and have a Decent RJ pilot.
Zephyr was the only frame that significantly changed, for the better. But frames like Frost, Chroma, Atlas, Inaros and others, are begging for a rework.
Chroma needs to be more fun, cycling buffs needs to more thoughtful because just using heat elemental ward is sufficient. Spectral screams needs to be have higher/ scaling damage, or some utility and better feedback. Effigy is something I don't know how to improve.
I really enjoy Loki but I wouldnt mind seeing a rework. Allow hime to have multiple clones up at once. Give the clones a duration instead of health. Swap his 4 from disarm to detonate his clones. Swap his passive to auto swap with an active clone if he gets killed instead of going down
I think disarm has to stay, but instead of being just a one time thing, make it an aura. I would say they should combine 1/3, and give him new abilities.
I still use Frost Prime for Bounties. Warframe is heavily focused on Bounties lately - Aya farming, Narmer bounties. And if you want to fill bonus objective on some defend-targets, Frost i still fine. You can summon Globe + Necramech, globe could be almost invisible with right color. I know there are "more efficient" frames, you can use Mesa but her 4 is visually annoying and you have to recast that..
Ye but like gara exists who can nuke the place before enmeies reach it
A wisp shock mote provides equal if not at times greater CC around an objective
And at this point you really are just using a necramech in bounties.
Frost needs a rework, not a single ability should remain untouched.
Doesnt mean its illegal to enjoy playing him, or like him
All the more reasons to want said rework so you can enjoy pressing other buttons than 3 as well
i wonder if DE can show us the data on steel path frame and weapon usage because that would clear up a lot of confusion. for example it makes more sense to me that people would use frost over zephyr in casual gameplay because frost's bubble is easier to understand than zephyr's turbulence. frost's bubble has a health stat, that scales with strength and armor, and only needs to be cast occasionally. zephyr's turbulence denies bullets entering a radius, so an enemy that enters that range could hit zephyr and it has to be recast constantly because its on a timer. not that the ability is bad but like most things in this game, it is not explained well. zephyr would be definitely better in steel path tho, because not getting shot is pretty neat
HILDRYN SUPREMACY
This guy knows!
personally im surprised hildryn and lavos dont have higher low mr uses. i really didnt like warframe all that much, i kept trying it and getting rid of it on xbox, did the same when i moved to pc, but then when hildryn came out i looked at her kit and bought her _instantly._ not only is her concept really appealing to me but the sheer fact that she has a *fun* energy economy and can actually _use_ abilities and the other frames id played over the years like mag and volt simply couldnt was _literally_ what set off my now almost 4k hour journey in warframe. the energy economy is so _horrendously_ bad and counter intuitive in warframe that i honest to god think its another crucial reason why people drop off from the game. warframe begins when you get rank 5 zenurik. everything before that is a boring slog, hence why hildryn made me fall in love with the game
also, when it comes to mag, i think her kit is a little intimidating to new players. it was to me at least, and it wasnt all that long ago so i remember how i felt. as a new player who knows nothing about warframe besides its a 3rd person shooting game, excalibur and volt are extremely simple. excalibur has 3 easy to instantly understand damage abilities and 1 blind, which is clearly a stun. volt has 2 easy to instantly understand damage abilities, plus a speed boost and shield. mag however, has a damage ability, a stun, a weaken…? and a… magnetise? whats a magnetise? shards?? maybe with the addition of small videos mags easier to understand now, but still seems like a confusing mess compared to the other 2 simple ones to the uninitiated
also, wisps high usage is probably partly tied to people buying her for the ass… weirdos
Hyldrin is an insane grind for a low mr player and even Lavos is pretty bad.
Thats all there is to it.
you aren't supposed to be constantly using your abilities early game, you have weapons for a reason. i don't get this comment.
AoE is so popular because unlike other games, We have basically infinite ammo with AoE weapons
Along with facing hordes
Other games be like "the reason we give you only a few usages of explosive weapons, is because it would be stupid op, and our weapon usage stats would look like Warframe lololol"
Well they removed self damage for... Reasons.. to nerf chroma i guess? Jk
The real reason is that the way Damage work in this game. We the players have like 700hp+ armor that gives us something like 10k effective hp (just a quick guess)
While our enemies (griner) willl have 100k+ or even milions effective HP (on steelpath)
So our weapons also have to deal 100k or even millions points of damage to kill them.
The result is: if we get self damaged we insta die even if we get 1% damage back lol
@Data NO aoe self damage was awful and made exåplosives unusable
it was a night,are
I guess one way to design around Wukong is to give cloudwalker like abilities to other frames and see what happens
Xbox L1 player here. I've actively avoided playing Wukong for years. I never felt engaged when playing him, and too many frames can be specialized to do *insert mission* better than him. However, him being a sort of afk jack of all trades explains his usage. Also Zephyrs numbers are astounding; she is indeed almost as busted as Protea.
Zephyr with Trumna is just perfection btw.
I love stats/data analysis, please do this every year.
Now, I'm going to go equip Wukong Prime with an Ignis wraith, kuva nukor, and xoris 🤣
Edit: spelling
For the longest time I was a Volt main (and I will fight you about him not being the best starter lol), but after the Zephyr rework, Zephyr is my new favorite. The best part about Zephyr is that she has several different builds worth using for different playstyles, all valid. She does fast-moving offense with ground slams and airburst, defensive area denial with tornadoes, sniping from the air with her critical buff passive, etc. Two things she lacks are armor stripping and healing, so that's what I target when putting helminth subsumes on her (Seeking Shuriken, Fire Blast, Gloom, Dispensary...).
As for the low gravity thing, I have the opposite problem. Now I feel like there is too much gravity when I play anything else besides Zephyr. Lol
I got zephyr and leveled her to 30 thinking she was trash cause that’s all my high MR friends said, but after hitting 30 I got zephyr prime and never looked back 😂. Legit the most fun frame in my opinion
the baruuk talk felt like it was directed at me. Mr 25 and i just finally grinded out the solaris standing and now working on the vox solaris.
So many people are STILL doing Hydron and I do NOT understand. And then they complain about farming Khora like... if you just level in SO you'll have like 4 Khora's
I'm surprised you're surprised about Hildryn. She has a spammable shield/armor strip that also removes status effects; with Blazing Pillage you can also add 'better shieldgating for the squad + fire procs'. I wouldn't be playing Warframe today if I hadn't platted for Hildryn back in the low MRs because yeah, she's like Inaros, but, you know. Good.
The problem with Hildryn is Fortuna, and most people don't spend plat on frames, I think. Like Baruuk, I think a lot of people start using her when there's nothing left to do but Fortuna, since getting all of the debt bonds is a painful experience, and advancing in Vox Solaris is gated behind top standing in Solaris United.
@@MrVeps1 Doesn't hyldryn only drop from the thermia event?
I know I’m 2 months behind but I really enjoyed the discussion in this video about the health of the style of gameplay. You do a great job about not being negative or pessimistic because everything isn’t perfect. I like the bloodbath horde shooter, and having tough enemies that require more than “gun go brrr” is how you keep it exciting (IF those enemies are dealt with via creativity and not with patience, making players wait sucks)
Maybe interesting for the stats: I *never* play Wisp, but I *always* carry her with me as a specter and that makes her rank very high in my "Used Warframes"-Statistic. She's in my top 10 in that statistic.
So using a frame as a specter seems to count as playing as this frame.
I think certain frames get more use just for their simplicity, some people just like shooting hard and/or getting hit less hard, a very vanilla way of playing. I don't like Frost at all, especially cause his bubbles get in my way, but I feel like his apparent simplicity of setting and forgetting the mostly passive bubble in defense objectives is his draw for people who don't wanna look into many different kits that achieve the same and more, sometimes with more active play or at least a bit more comprehension involved. We pretty much all learn about Frost early on, and if you didn't manage to get a good lockdown CC build on your Mag or whatever, good chance he'll be an amazing asset early on.
another year of maintaining the idea that Protea doesn't need to be perceived by DE, good work everyone, see you in 2022
same for Zephyr, I'm eating good here with all these good warframes just cruising under that radar
There is a way to find out which frame you started with, as long as you didn't sell it.
When you send a GDPR request to DE you get a text file with your frames ordered by acquisition date.
i see
someone ate my starter frame though
People forget (or didn't know) Loki was a starter frame as well. (They changed him out with Volt)
Ash 4 should be a mark-and-trigger thing. Hold to mark, press to trigger (with no self animation, just clones). Let it be a setup for sick stealth combos including your own weapon.
ashes 4 currently is like you start looking at things then the things you are looking at are dead because people killed them before you ever activated it
Wukong has been my default frame since his prime and rework came out
Honestly I don't even know what to do about Wukong.
Like DE is going to get the biggest backlash but either they have to redo him completely again or they have to redo how their game is fundamentally designed and get rid of the shit players don't want to do.
His usage is just wayy to high to be left alone but the only way to nerf him and it actually mattering is going to be undoing his rework at this point. And as stated the problem isn't necessarily wukong it's the parts of the game the players just don't like.
Just make old wukong and watch those numbers droooooooooop
Deimos has eneimies with the mouth on their shoulder that you can DPS down without shooting the shoulder shooting the shoulder mouths just does it faster sometimes.
i just rewatched this and had an idea for a wukong change (granted i dont play him so please take it with a grain of salt)
defy is buffed. maybe it lasts a bit longer and can be cancelled whenever, but it now taunts enemies to attack you and your clone during it. it functions as normal, however it receives a second buff like the armour one (which now also applies to the clone if it doesnt already), where damage taken is converted into a healing buff that lasts (maybe?) 45 seconds by default and scales with duration, the armour receives this timer also. the healing scales with damage taken and will heal you for the duration quite a bit, but not crazy like a high strength wisp regen, but it is amplified for the clone and they get pretty good health regen for the duration granted you took a lot of damage. having its healing function (which id argue is what is relevant to his kit about that ability) removed, cloud walker is now irrelevant and can be replaced with a new ability, which will gain its finisher effect also
cloud walkers replacement ability “cloud strike” functions almost identically to ashes current target based teleport. he disappears into a puff of smoke and reappears at the enemy, which stuns them and opens them to finishers. but if you hold the ability, you can warp to your clone from anywhere, who can now be told to hold position like other spectres, which will create an aoe lighting blast upon arriving at the clone to stun enemies and open them to finishers in a radius
in practice this can be used somewhat like a mobility tool, essentially giving him a reliable temporal anchor, without letting him speedrun the content he currently does, like captures and such. it increases his mechanical depth while also stopping him from being afk titania. hes good at 2 things currently: not playing the game, and being fast. imo, he only needs one of these
if you still want to go fast, you can, but youll now need to commit to an infested mobility build instead of being able to speedrun everything with, lets be honest, no build at all. this means in the end not much will change about him, but itll be harder for him to achieve those 2 goals at once and will require more investment
Wu changes: Cloud goes from 1/2 its size to 3x its size but starts fast and slows down once you leave it slowly dissipates back to 1/2 size resetting the speed, clone can only use your ult as a melee weapon but takes 100% of the agro and costs one of you passives to recast after dying.
Something I don't see people talk about in terms of the Kuva Nukor is that it's a secondary weapon. In 95% of content you're using your melee, primary, and Warframe abilities to do everything, so you don't put any thought into secondaries unless it's a primer. In a way that makes the Nukor (and epitaph and cycron) just as much a comfort pick as a meta pick, it's something you just choose once and don't think about for most play sessions.
If you want more Zephir stats, the guy in chat is right, most people arent aware shes not poo tier anymore (I know I fit in that camp). Make a build refresh for her!
Edit: I initially wrote wisp instead of zephyr (meant zephyr)
Wisp is my main, with 3 umbrals & 5 subsumed ability's she is really powerful.
@@Whitespliff sorry I meant to write Zephyr. I agree wisp is great
With Gara, it depends a ton if you actually have energy (arcanes etc) which not every player does, is my guess. If you have low energy regen she is a lot worse, imo. Or maybe far more punishing is the word? That said I haven't played in a while so maybe that changed. :P
I know I contribute a significant amount to those Zephyr numbers, so I'm still genuinely surprised and disappointed that she's still so underutilized
Hyldrin is also a comfort frame and looks better than Inaros/Grendel(big mommy frame), you just slap on your favourite build and just steamroll anything below SP, also RJ.
My starter was MAG and i did a bit of research and youre the only big channel that says shes a good starter. Most say shes good just more difficult to learn or apply her kit and most young adults hear and read that and become intimidated so credit to ya for the objective analysis. I dont regret going MAG main and im on a melee build hehehehe, also if most people pick excalibur because hes the sword dude prototype i concur but also it is overruled by what ass i wanna be lookin at while runnin and jumpin all over the solar system... MAG all day 😎😁
The Caliban statistic actually does mean something, only MR31 can beat Archons with an unmodded Nataruk lol.
I think the reason Frost was seeing more play than Gara is because Frosts Snowglobe has feedback to it. You don't know how long it will be until one segment of Garas Mass Vitrify will break, but you do know exaclty how much health your Snowglobe has. And even better, once you cast Snowglobe a few times, you can just do whatever and just occasionally check back on the Globes health. With Gara, you need to be using most of your skills at all times. Frost is a lazy players Gara.
If DE nerfs Wukong and/or Wisp, they'll lose a ton of players judging by those numbers.
I will just go back to afk octavia then.... I just need to set some macros for all that annoying abilities spam and tea bagging.
Wukong is best for lazy gameplay due to have to press 1 once, and 2 for when you gonna go fast
My heart bled when I returned to Warframe and ash's ult turned into from press 4 shit dies to what we have now, he felt like so much more of a swift deadly assassin. Praying to rnjesus someone at de feels the same and they let us do this again by holding 4 for example.
Man those zephyr numbers make me so sad. She is my go to for steel path she is so good
Are you planning on doing a roster review? I really enjoyed the 2021 one and am very curious what you think of the changes throughout last year
I think I cracked the code for Frost. Defense is slow, he can slow down the enemies further. So by mission count, he'd be way behind, but in terms of hours played, well for every 200 Titania captures, a frost gets through like 6 or 7 defenses.
loki is literally my first frame, like, i main loki since beta
he doesn't fly like titania or monke, but like, he still runs fast and just being able to stay invisible without changing nothing on how you play, he is just comfy and works at every level having cc and boosted melee damage
Wukong being a good warframe is one of the main reason for his popularity but from my experience, the asian server is full of wukong players, like I'm almost always with a wukong in a public party so I'm willing to bet that a pretty good chunk of the wukong use percentage come solely from asia, especially china, which is the second country with the most active warframe players.
I'm sure wukong being based on a famous chinese mythology/literature played a role in his popularity and people just stick with him because he's good.
If they made kuva nukor do literally 1 damage at base it won't even matter, people are still using it so much not only because it's a good gun on its own but particularly because it and epitaph are the two guns you use when you have a CO melee to shit 4 or so status effects on an enemy. And what a surprise almost all of the good melee weapons really really like CO and with secondary dexterity arcanes we have it's a fun set up to run. On one hand it's nice to finally have functional synergy between melee weapons and guns, but then again this is warframe and everything no matter how cool it is will inevitibly be boiled down and diluted into the one or two defining choices for "da meta".
Zephyr's shield takes a second too long to cast, she's horribly floaty without that augment, and people want to press 4 to make things die, not cast and have to shoot.
As a Xaku main, I'm happy to see numbers fairly low :) gotta avoid those nerfs.
I still have fond memories for Frost. Before i knew what i was doing I kept failing the raptor fight, so I farmed up frost and was able to cheese the fight from the bubble and it felt like I'd hacked the game haha
I feel called out with "stuck in their ways" loki statement. I'll never let him go :(
I think the problem with why people aren't playing zephyr is because they don't see the changes. They don't see how good she is. There's no flashy numbers right up front in her stats that everyone understands. It's really something you got to feel and it's hard to explain just how strong her tornados are to people sometimes
Grendel's grind is a pain in the ass and its even worse today because the rush has long since ended. The numbers are exactly where I thought they would be.
Only way to tank Wukong number is design a different frame that does the same thing, then the numbers might end up split between them, MAYBE.
That face when you were about to make an argument for how good banshee is but then you realize everything he said applies to you.
They don't need to nerf frames to reduce the high usage frame numbers... they just need to keep adding new frames that fit more players' play styles, and also are effective in the mission objective types most played.
(Edit, Adding: An aside about Frost:
I used Frost on all my defense/mobile def missions, until Wisp. I have no other use for Frost, and Wisp is better for how I play those. Just for one example. Frost, in this case, needs a buff to go beyond being useful in a defense situation... at least for me to use him again.)
Frost needs a complete rework at this point
at the very least, allies should be able to shoot through the globe because wake up, its 2022 no1, and i mean *no one* wants to deal with a frost globe getting in the way of today's weapons
I genuinely wish i could kick people from my party when i see a frost in my group whos placing bubbles with no regard to the 3 aoe weapons in the party
@@laszloneumann500 I play solo and melee only, so I couldn't care less about the bullet pass through issue. Wouldn't be opposed to it, but I don't care either way.
I'm more interested in mobility, and Frost is very very "hold your ground" style. If he had an ability that froze enemies that came into his radius, like gloom, but much stronger, I'd be into that sort of thing.
In the space ninja game, the best characters are a cowboy, a mummy, a monkey, a thicc ghost and a bird
You forgot to mention the loki gas proc exploit disappearing as a reason why he isn't S rank anymore. He used to have trivial access to silly DPS - the kind that would have made him relevant still.
also for wukong nerf removal of iron vault build is a massive nerf like could just put max range and with glave rework getting hundreds of % damage buff on the glave and buff the range to like 50m radius would be insane. it would have needed to be nerfed anyway
I really like Atlas. Sure, he punches, but he can tank, and crowd control. It all takes time to master him, and come up with a specific strategy/playstyle for him. His kit is nice, but maybe change tectonics? Maybe? Idk.
Try building his 4 augment from pvp, it's really funny. There's a good video on it. Def a meme tho.
I haven't properly played in a long time (at least 6 months). But when it comes to "are people stuck on Hydron"... Idk but I don't feel good doing ESO. Maybe its just a me thing but when I play Hydron or any other defence mission I feel like I can chill and not care to do much about being effective.
I very much enjoy the slow pace of these missions. I will do ESO if I feel like just getting the lvling done quick sometimes. But I really do have to say ESO was the thing that I usually did last every day because I knew I would have enough after it.
I don't really agree with all of your Atlas suggestions (barring Tectonics of course), but what if instead of wearing the Rumblers, Atlas had the Rumblers attack with him? Rumblers would add their damage to Atlas' 1 and its base damage, and each Rumbler gives Landslide another hit for the Combo Counter. Since each Rumbler adds another hit to Landslide, that means you get three separate instances to Crit and Status.
Rumblers would then have it so leaving them on their own allows them to Petrify enemies with any of their attacks. Rumblers would then just ignore enemies unless they're not petrified. Now Rumblers aren't really for damage unless you're using Landslide, but now they have two clear purposes.
Warframe 2022: gloomy microwave monkes
Kinda of a weird coincidence that all the "water" frames (frost, hydroid, and yereali) suck...
I think some of the strange ones like early gaus and frost prime being played was them giving them away. Some of these were in starter packs or store packs too.
I know this is a bit old but the reason why I chose Volt over the others.
Space Ninjas are already cool, but Space Ninja Palpatine? Sign me up.
Also my dad is a Frost Prime player and it's served him well for a number of reasons.
1. Simplicity. Not to be mean but he's getting up there. Some warframes are just too complicated for a boomer like himself. Frost has decent enough defensive stats and really only 2 good abilities with obvious use cases. Playing Defense? Bubble. Need literally anything else? Avalanche.
2. Grinding out Fissure Defenses is his jam. It might as well be warframe for him.
3. He didn't play during the Gara Prime times and regular Gara requires playing PoE which isn't exactly the definition of fun. With us getting back into the game though the Circuit may change that for him. Even if Frost is his old standby he's been introduced to so many new warframes that he's taken at least some interest in that it might not be his only choice anymore.