It is so nice to hear what I believe said in such a kind way. I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran. This explains is perfectly. I have read the Bible for Lent several times and it is clear. Thank you.
I am an Orthodox Christian and I admire your position and I am agreed with everything you said! It would be wonderful if all Lutherans would have the same opinion like you!
@street89fighter There are several types of Lutheran. The largest group, the ELCA, are very liberal and have gay clergy. The LCMS do not support gay marriage.
I am a Canadian so I feel compelled to correct a misperception in this video. Gay marraige has been the law in Canada since 2015. More recently a law was passed banning so called conversion therapy. But there is no law forbidding Christians from saying that homosexuality is a sin, if that's how they see the matter. To qualify as hate speech, such rhetoric would have to be seen as inciting harm against a person.
I'm ELCA Lutheran and i 100% agree with this Pastor. We know it's a sin. It's in the Bible, other Lutherans who don't believe it, are twisting the word of the Bible to fit their views.
You Do know that you people take one part as literal as possible but you take another part that you don't like and say no no no this part dosent matter so then your whole religion dosen matter
I am a Catholic and completely agree with you on the Biblical basis for marriage being between a man and a woman. Every society has upheld the union of a man and a woman because the family is the building block of any society. The family is also a metaphor of the Trinity. It is the love between the spouses that a child is born. All sexual sins are such, because either they lack the procreative, or the unitive aspect of the sexual union. There is no homosexual union that is procreative, it is therefore intrinsically disordered. The statistics support the fact that homosexuality on average shortens one's life span by 30 yrs. Even in terms of the natural law, one should question the rationale of homosexuality.
I am gay and I completely understand his explanation. I feel like people nowadays (liberals) are overly sensitive. I respect the Church's views and I feel like we need more understanding in this world.
Gay Marriage? It seems preferable to grumpy marriage. ... Oops, that's not what you meant, is it? But to the real subject, why does society recognize marriage at all, since it's essentially a private arrangement? The answer I can come up with is the societal interest in the welfare of children, which homosexual unions are incapable of producing. So they don't need permanence or the income-splitting aspects of the federal income tax. They're just individuals.
The Lord is the one that says what he says about marriage and homosexuality. It would be "silly" to doubt the His words. We have divisions because of Jesus. His Word brings together. His Word divides - like on this subject.
Thank you my brother. I am not a Lutheran per se oh, but I do thank God for the stand that Martin Luther took against the errors of the Catholic Church. And I agree with many things that you teach and say.
I’m glad that you described marriage as the picture of the relationship between God and his bride. That was wise. Also, sin is sin. God’s view is clear and people know this. But they deliberately choose to go their own way.
Loved this! I wish you were my pastor =) You have a new subscriber sir =) From reading through the comments I must say, it is sad to see so many "Lutherans" disagreeing and hearing that their church supports it....It shows churches are turning to worldly views and are no longer preaching or following God's teaching.
Jesus was demonstrating the necessity of grace when he didn't stone Mary Magdalene; and when he spoke to her after the other men left, he said "Go, and sin no more". He did not condone the sin, he forgave her and asked her not to do it anymore. In my view, Christians should encourage gays (and everyone else) to ask Jesus for forgiveness, and go, sin no more and submit themselves to God's will. If they choose not to, we should respect their decision and let them use the free will God gave them.
To Darthrevan: The word gay originally meant bright,happy, festive,colorful. It has been perverted. So called gay marriage-there is no such thing in the divine order. It is verboten! In German, this means forbidden, prohibited. As Christians, we are to hate the sin, but love the offender. We must stand for Holy Scripture,though. We are to accept people,but not compromise standards.
So, Does it count if you followed God your entire life, went to church, sought after God, prayed and read your Bible, served in the name of Christ, but you were still gay? Because what I'm getting from what you're saying is that it when you reject God that you become gay.... but all of that mustn't count unless you grew up Lutheran?
My family is German-American. We have always spoke German. We actually came to America during the 1800 period. Therefore we were German-American and religion is Lutheran. I was baptized and brought up to be Lutheran. Not to mention we've always had a bad reputation for gay people. Yeah some were friends with. No we never told them they're going to hell or homosexuality is a sin. We just greet each other and mind our own business. So, yeah I personally was told by a pastor at a church to never hate, as that in itself is a sin. I can say I don't like that or that's not good. You get the point. Good day to you, Pastor and God be with you always.✝️🙏
You sound Christ-like, especially if you go to homes of sinners and eat with them(that would be everyone). Now while Jesus preached at the dinner table (he was a rabbi, after all), he still ate with those who did not believe or agree (though he did call out the hypocrites whose attitude towards others did not match their actions!). We can do the same.
Proud Lutheran here. So glad I found this channel. If you're answering questions, can you answer some for me, please? I was born at the Lutheran hospital, went to public school, but bible study 3 days a week at my church (Ascension Lutheran), now I'm a WELS member.
+Richard Dewey -- We got to stop meeting like this! :P Seriously speaking, it's not as if I needed to watch this 'HTI' video (I saw it on the right-hand side) because I have quite a handful of material on the Bible and homo-eroticism in my personal library and eBook collection. But I took the plunge just to see what he had to say. That and finding him pleasing to the ear unlike Pastor Fisk who annoys me and especially with his constant hand-waving. Nothing really new other than good old-fashioned straight up talk. Now if he and other Lutheran pastors can only chill out a bit with this issue and focus in on divorce & remarriage (re: much more detrimental to the "nuclear family" and white well-being) since those of us of a heterosexual bent can squirm a bit similar to how gays & lesbians feel when this particular subject matter -- and the so-called *_"clobber texts"_* -- get brought up.
Thank you, Pastor George. You spoke the truth, what God's Holy Word says. There is no changing of God's Word to suit some people's point of view, they would distort the real and true meaning if they could. I love God's Holy Word and I thank you again for teaching us the truth. God Bless you, Pastor George Borghardt...
Well i like this Pastor of the Lutheran Church. I am Eastern Orthodox and i find so amazed that there are still - God Bless- Lutheran Orthodox priests who are passionate and right. Without people like this pastor the Church is still alive.
I am Lutheran, born and raised, I don't have anything against gay marriage. In my opinion people can do whatever they want as long as they don't bother anyone else with it, and I don't see how two men or two women(whom I don't even know) getting married will affect me or bother me or my personal life in anyway. I do however think that those who solely rely on what bible verses says and live their lives strictly after them; needs to get with the times and also wake up and see reality with a pair of open eyes. Sorry but that's my opinion as a Lutheran, and if my opinion upsets you then go cry to your mamma.
You are such a Liar Immorten. No way are you a Lutheran! One comment of yours sussed you out for the liar that you are. eg " I do however think that those who solely rely on what bible verses says and live their lives strictly after them; needs to get with the times "! If you was a Lutheran you would know damn well that Martin Luther was a staunch believer in Sola Scriptura (Bible Scripture Alone)! One of Luthers main reasons for his depature from the Catholic Church was indeed due to Sola Scripture. Sola Scriptura (Latin: by Scripture alone) is a Christian theological doctrine which holds that the Christian Scriptures are the sole infallible rule of faith and practice.This means BIBLE SCRIPTURE Immorten! If you deny Sola Scriptura ,which you clearly do, then it makes no sense in you being a Lutheran!
Well then you're not Lutheran, you're a liar. Because you don't reason your beliefs through the bible and through the word of God, but you reason it through your own, flawed human way of thinking. Don't ever call yourself "Lutheran", or infact "Christian" again. You are a disgrace to real, believing Christians who do read their bible and who do submit to God, unlike you.
I was raised Lutheran my entire life, & in my 28+ years of life, I've never heard anything like this from the church I went to. I'm bisexual, & I think it's ridiculous that people think it's a sin. Even if it were, why do you care? No one is forcing you to sleep with someone of the same sex. Other people being gay, trans, etc. doesn't have an effect on your life. Christianity is supposed to be about "Loving the neighbor", right? Then why do Christian people spew so much hate to the LGBT community??? Why not go on a crusade against people eating seafood? The Bible says that's a sin too, right? Same with cutting your hair. I don't see people going off on those "sins", yet for some reason, some Christian people just want to go after the LGBT community like it's their life mission. I don't understand that type of thinking. It's reasons like this that I don't fully identify as a Christian anymore. I now consider myself an Agnostic-theist, more or less. People just need to get over this issue. Do something productive with your life. Stop spreading hate that you masquerade as "love". It's time to stop.
You're basically saying the same about all sins. So we should ignore that murder is a sin just because the bible suggests people not eat seafood? Um, no. I never saw it declared a sin to do that... It was suggested because at that time people got ill from it. They didn't have refrigerators like we do now.
One thing you are not considering. Christianity is not about loving our neighbour. Christianity is about Christ. And He said: He who is not with me, is against me.
@@IcySlavKat Nonetheless, whatever the source of your lifestyle may be, homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Co. 6.9-10). Furthermore you dishonor the teachings of your religion (Catholicism) and making a diy version thereof.
You never heard it, then let it be known to you in truth and love that Scripture teaches sexual immorality, including homosexuality, is a sin (Mark 7:20-23; Romans 1:23-27; 2 Corintians 6:9) Jesus preached repentance, meaning to change your mind and turn from sin. (Matthew 4:17) Jesus said He came to call sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32) Jesus called us to radical love and devotion to Himself, to love Him above all else (Matthew 10:37-39) Jesus instructed us to deny ourselves and follow Him (Matthew 16:24) Flee from or Run away from sexual immorality (1 Corinthians 6:18) We are baptized into Christ death, dying to sin, and living by Christ alive in us by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 6:3-12; Romans 8:8-14; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:14; Galatians 5:24)
Robert, Thanks for your reply. I think you need to recheck your facts. Many Lutherans and Christians suffered in Germany during the Nazi oppression. What you said simply isn't factual.
wow! very well said. Redefining marriage (in favor of same sex marriage) is a real threat to religious liberties. Soon enough those who support "gay rights" will demand that the Bible be banned because it states that homosexual acts are sinful. Religious Liberties MUST be defended.
Thank you pastor, It is refreshing to know that there are still Churches that let the Bible call the shots rather than letting the current society boss the church around. I agree with your perspective and like the idea of respectfully disagreeing with the issue.
I grew up in the Lutheran church and still ended up gay. Despite all my prayers to "cure" me of this "affliction", I was neither cured nor ever heard an encouraging word from the pulpit. Instead I got the traditional Lutheran teaching that it was "OK*" to be gay so long as I never acted upon it. Basically it came down to: You must live alone and you'll die alone. No love. No family. That's about it. That was the Lutheran teaching to those with same sex attraction.
Grizzly, Thanks for your honest answer. Here we have the real difference: Sola Scriptura can't mean sola scriptura (Scripture alone) in your view of both homosexuality and marriage. We are bound by Scripture to teach and preach what Scripture says. It's not a matter of me being hateful or you being loving or visa versa. It's a matter of whether we are going to take the Scriptures or our own personal views as authoritative. Thanks for watching and thanks for pointing this out.
Jesus did die to free us from sin, but we aren't free from it until we agree with Him about it and confess that we needed Him to free us, then choose to live in this freedom. He doesn't force us to follow Him, he presents salvation to us, then let's us choose either Him or our own way.
Im LDS, and my view is this. God told us to love all people, but a relationship between a man and woman is the correct doctrine. Im not going to judge thats not my responsibility. Everyone has their agency, and will do what they will. All we can do as Christians are to support and give our fellow brothers and sisters love. I cannot however necessarily support everyones lifestyle.
We don't ordain women because God's Word teaches us that women are too precious for such a job. As for "progressive," that's just another word for "more 'me' and less Christ." Rev. Mark Buetow HT Media Executive
Joseph Taylor thank you pastor George . You spoke the truth.From the Gospel.Don't why Protestants especially want to twist the words of God in the Bible.The Bible says homosexuality (acts)is a sin.period.Protestant pastors who promote or agree on homosexual marriages should abandon their positions because they are NOT preaching that homosexual union is a SÌN no matter how you twist words around.Good on you Pastor George . God is on your side.
@@marialeba2131 it's not just the protestants any more as the new Catholic pope announced that it was no longer a sin to be gay I had a few friends who left the Catholic church because of it and became Lutheran because they did not agree with the pope on that and said they do not believe that the pope has no form of power to change God's law nor scriptures on such matters to make gay marriage holy is disrespectful to God.
Lutheranism is a vast and historic worldwide branch of Christianity. This video does not represent the Lutheran view, instead merely the presenter's view. While the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod holds mainly negative views on marriage equality, the much larger Evangelical Lutheran Church in America openly blesses same-sex unions, solemnizes the marriages of same-sex couples where it is legal, ordains LGBT ministers, and is welcoming to the gay community, their families, friends & allies.
It's not a matter of which church body has the most members, but rather which church body holds to God's Truth. It's this simple: The Bible is inerrant or it isn't. If it is, the answer is there. If it isn't, you can simply disagree and believe what you want.
Praise God,this is called true knowledge of wisdom. With much compassion in dealing with sensitive issues. The Scripture's speak truth but humans keep trying to defile because of personal desire. Selfishness,greediness, etc..evil is really working to conquer the world but God will rescue his people. He is just and faithful to his promise. Let us be steadfast in our faith and wait His second coming soon. Peace!!!
How do you expect someone to change their feeling for another person,how could God expect that,i myself am straight and come from a lutheran family yet i have lots of gay freinds who love their partners and they cant control their feelings,i even know one whos gay and christian,how is a gay person supposed to just not be gay
Yeah, it's easy enough for people who don't feel that way to go gun-ho against gay people, but ya don't think gay people tried not being gay or weren't the happiest when they discovered what they were attracted to? You actually think gay people just decided to go against the flow of all of Christianity for the banter? It's laughable that people would think that people choose being gay. It isn't and likely wasn't ever, before now, easier or the most enjoyable sin to partake in. Also why would god not make everyone equal? why would you ingrain something in people's biology only to tell them "see that thing you can't change no matter what? Yeah you're going to burn for eternity. But that's your problem not mine" Like what? It was either a taboo subject when it was written, and remained taboo until fairly recently, thus it's inclusion in the new and old testament. Or God's a bit of meanie who likes to fuck certain people over for the fun of it. Ya feel? Edit: called god a "twat" and didn't want to burn for eternity so changed it to "meanie"
Great video! Stay strong and keep holding to the Holy Scriptures. Without the Bible, our experiences are subjective and we can easily be lead astray by our own thinking/feelings.
That's what you believe in. You also have to respect other people's beliefs that tell you they also love one another and believe in real love just like Jesus told us free of judgement because ultimately, it is God that will judge everyone in the end. You guys are feeling the heat now and don't like being called homophobes and are at the other end of the stick now. However, you keep spreading hate towards gays and to say we don't taunt gays or anything like that is the same as saying rich people will never get into heaven but hurry up and give us those donations because my limo is waiting to take me to my private jet so I can enjoy my mansion like a lot of churches do. All in the name of God
Say what???? Im laughing at your bumb ass. Im not Christian. Go wirshio the Duggars child molestor that your religion covers up. That is funny and very hypocritical!
Don't worry I'll pray for you so that God makes you see the light and you stop spreading your message of hate. Just remember what Jesus said: love one another :)
You are not God so you cannot speak for him. Lucifer wanted to be like God and he was send to hell. Guess where you'll end up for trying to be like God. Exactly! No more of that Nonsense!
+juan cendra you have to realize that this video was made by an LCMS Lutheran Christian and for LCMS Lutheran Christians who know the rest of the Lutheran theology. What your saying points towards other theologies that aren't Lutheran, and saying that some Christians do hate speech or some other thing so all christians do it is a fallacy. That's almost like saying there are criminials and serial killers and there all people so all people are serial killers is a fallacy. At they end of the day Lutherans believe in the scriptures and that everyone is sinful and that we are saved by Christ's atoning sacrifice. We believe all sins are equally sinful in that they all bring us to hell. But we are saved by Christ and we recongnize that these things are evil and so we speak against them whether it's homosexuality or stealing. But we particularly speak against homosexuality in the current day and age because that's what people are having problems with today and we're just shedding what we believe to be the truth on the subject that homosexuality like all sins is wrong. Now there are Christians from other theologies that say Christianity is right or even if they say it's wrong they go about it wrong but those are not LCMS Lutherans and you can't use those people as an example argument against us. For the first amendment rights we respect that some people want to do homosexuality and believe it's right but they also have to accept that we think it's wrong and unless one side goes overboard like the westboro baptist church then there shouldn't really be a problem in both sides expressing there opinions. We have a modern belief that anyone who believes anything different then another person and criticizes is hateful or should be hated but that really is a narrow view. Also we don't speak for God, God speaks in the bible and even if that wasn't the case the first amendment should protect us unless we where to go about our beliefs like the westboro baptist church. But yes if we were to be like Lucifer and go against the word of God we would go to hell but we firmly believe what the bible says is sin and that separates us from God and the only way back to God is Christ's death, his blood on the cross for us and that his body on the cross is the tree of life that saves us. It is a faith that trusts in Christ's justifying act despite seeing our own sins and the sin of the world that saves us and just like how adam's sin brought everyone in the world to evil, Christ's acts bring us back to where we were.
"Sin" a religious invention to fudge the boundaries between right and wrong in their favor - for the right price and commitment to the brand you can cash in sin for absolution - a nice little earner
To Sarah Goodenough: God is not against having fun. He wants us to do that, but within safe boundaries. The trouble many people have is seeing God as giving thou shalt and thou shalt nots. As a lot of dictatorial restrictions on what you can do. Reading bewtween the lines, we discover that God has given a plan that delivers us from evil-a petition in the Lord's prayer. God wants to steer us out of harm's way. Certain practices in this world, even heterosexual ones, can get us in trouble.
Thank you for the obligatory ripping a verse out of context... Where did he judge the individuals? He merely pointed out that the bible says it is a sin. There is a huge difference between judging and warning someone they are in danger.
Not Lutheran, however, this preacher teaches and speaks Truth from the Holy Bible. Believers in God and the Son of God, Jesus Christ, do care about others’s soul and do worry about Souls that are caught in an act of sin, that is could be endangered to go tohell. We Believers want to warn others (especially believers) that Jesus saves one from Hell upon Repentance, Confession, Jesus is Lord, Baptism, and walk in newness following the laws of Jesus, therefore, we try to point out dangerous choices we all make from time to time. But it is everyone’s choice. We then let it be your decision. Which is what many want anyway. Their own choice. We pray it is one that will have your soul in the presence of Love and Peace!
That´s right Orangutan 141. In the Lutheran Church of Denmark there was also a video of the first gay marriage being performed. This was posted by Mark Thyrring on you tube. Matthew 25 states to us what is required of us as Christians by Jesus himself.
Its only the ELCA Lutherans that allow LGBT to become ministers,not the other Lutheran Churches. The ECLA has become infiltraited and infected by the Devil ,and thus has become apostate. They go against everything Luther stood for and believes in. Luther will be turning in his grave at the ELCA,
I doubt it mattered that she was Jewish or Christian, or that Jesus hadn't died yet. She was a soul in need of forgiveness like everyone else; forgiveness and a new life was offered to her, and as far as I know, she took it. I think you're exactly right when you say we all should care about our owns sins, and sometimes I think ppl need prompting to deal with their own sin. I know I did, and I'm thankful for the Sunday-School teacher who prompted me.
I read all these comments from 3-4 years ago about this video. Much has happened since it originally aired. The world is "codifying" many of the things the Pastor was worried about then. Maybe an update to this would be appropriate if he's up for more abuse.
If we're all still stained by sin, I guess Jesus died for nothing, correct? I'd love you to answer me that question from a Theological perspective, pastor. Besides, if Jesus didn't stone M. Magdalene for being a prostitute, does that mean he wasn't free from sin? Even though I'm gay, I have nothing against practising Christians. I do combat the lunatic factions of Christianty, but at the same time, I give Catholics and Lutherans a chance to debate, coz you're the most rationalistic ones :)
I've struggle with it most all my life I know what bible says it has cause relationship issues with me any comment is appreciated have had counselling God can help with all things yes I'm Christian
Read the Gospel and pray. His ways are not the worldly ways. Get to know Jesus and scripture. Idolatry is creating a God that makes you feel good. In fact the first two commandments say this. His ways are not our way and out thoughts are not his thoughts. It’s very important to understand this. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus our Lord. Love You All - In Christ
Very good advice for all church denominations straight from God's word. In today's world the devil has used the news media and popular opinions instead of the gospel. There is actually no debate on the issue of homosexuals. The fact that common sense is not common brings everything home. In the first chapter of Romans we can read the scripture and find the words "God gave them up". This means that those who practice homosexuality will create their own destiny in the fires of hell. Amen.
João Vítor Freitas da Silva unfortunately, not all Lutherans sing from the same song sheet, and many have abandoned Confessional Lutheranism. The conservative Lutherans have been faithful to the scriptures and hold to its truth.
Missouri Synod is basically out of the Lutheran Communion that practices apostolic succession. They are more like a cult of Bible-belt evangelicals rather than Catholic Christians.
To pastor George Vorcroft: Congratulations on the expression of most of this viewpoint. I believe that Holy Scripture DOES make an issue aboht male with female for marriage and for sex. If it didn't, what ground would we have to say homosexuality is a sin? As it is, we DO have a realistic ground to stand on. I agree that fundamentalists dk a lot of fingerpointing as if homosexuality is the worst of all sins. Proverbs 6,16-18 imparts that spiritual pride is the worst of all.
Not all Lutherans think alike. Not all Lutheran church bodies & organizations hold the same positions, and neither do individual members within them. This video represents the view of 1 Lutheran within 1 organization. For example, in the U.S. the 2.2 million member Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is officially against LGBT equality, while the 3.95 million member Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is for it. It is not about who is right. It's about not presuming to speak for all Lutherans.
ELCA is NOT Lutheran if they do not hold to the basis tenets of the Lutheran church as defined by the Unaltered Lutheran Confessions. You hold to them, or you don't; the Lutheran Church is NOT a cafeteria.
I visited a Lutheran church that boasts and prays for acceptance of Gays. During communion, an underaged child held the chalice of wine. I don't think I will be returning there. I cant tell you how many churches I visited that believe in supporting the gay agenda and I could not help but think to myself did these pastors not read their bible correctly? On the web I went in another denominations page and saw four to five children playing in the baptismal water font with their hands. They had to be around 3 or 4 and I thought to myself that children pick their noses and sneeze and the baptismal font is not a play toy. Shame on that minister who allowed that to happen. We may be God's children but we are not his "buddy" Therefore we should show proper respect for the sacraments. One church served Ritz crackers as the bread another I have seen used pita bread. I was told by other Lutherans not to judge others because they were gay however there is a difference between judging and pointing out scripture as it is God's word.
If you ever visit another "Lutheran" church, ask the Pastor if the congregation holds to the Unaltered Augsburg Confession. these are the tenants of the Lutheran faith. If he answers, "No", turn around and run!
Y'all I ain't tryna judge ima just say the truth. The bible was translated so many times that's the King James version is incorrect. It should say that "men shall not lay with boy" in regard to pedophilia not "men shall not lay with man" **and they said nothing about a woman with a woman sO**
I am debating which side of the American Lutheran sphere I want to go ... while I am for gay rights I don't believe they should trample the rights of others .... The episcopal church and elca both accept LGBT members however neither speaks for all anglicans or Lutheran as well ...
Because I didn’t know this fact when I was 12 and it really screwed me up when coming out and on my faith journey. THIS IS NOT ELCA! Any ELCA member looking for the ELCA opinion I would highly suggest you go to the ELCA website or speak to an ELCA Pastor. This man is not ELCA and this is NOT the belief of the ELCA.
This video is the view of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod. LGBTQIA+ people are officially welcomed by congregations of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. Speak with a pastor there if you have any concerns, questions, wish to marry, etc.
Just because you "believe" your scriptures are true does not mean that you have authority to impose your beliefs on others. While I'm glad you mentioned not being violent or hateful to people in the LGBT community, recognize that literally ANYONE can have a scripture that conflicts with yours. You have no way of knowing whether you are following God's will or they are. Your beliefs hold no more authority over other people than someone who is a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Jane, a Jew or someone who believes in the Olympian God Zeus.
D4n21 no they can’t. The bible is true, and that has been proven multiple times, the Old Testament was fulfilled by Jesus, Judaism is fulfilled so no longer a thing. Islam is false, it is so easy to tear apart the scripture of the Koran. The buddists don’t even believe in a god, when it has been proven by Christians and Jews that God exists and that he created the world. Zeus is a joke, not even going to answer that one. But, what is a Jane? Never heard of that one? Is it a cult?
Judging can be oppression if you think he ought to be silenced from the views gleaned by watching his video. He may be a little patronizing but please don't assume his intent. I don't agree with him, but I wouldn't assume what he thinks deep down. Even if it does seem evident...
I don't care what the world says, homosexuality is wrong. would I hesitate to help a person that is gay? no. would I attend their wedding ceremony? nope buy I wouldn't be invited in the first place which is fine with me. as to the world, I don't care what happens to it. I am sitting waiting for Jesus to come.
The problems with his view is it disregards a large amount of theological and academic scholarship on the topic. He must know this if he went to a good college and so I think, and can only conclude, that this damage (reenforcing a biased view) is deliberate. I think he misrepresents the issues in favour of a specific viewpoint that he obviously agrees with. But that doesn't do justice or humility to the fact that the scriptures don't totally lean how he would like. Lets not forget clerics have been on the side of most things we now reject in terms of slaves, violence for religious ends, holding back rights of women etc. There are no concrete conclusions on these issues, simply Gods grace and love
@@lorenzomurrone2430 Not necessarily so actually. Just because something has been perpetuated for a time doesn't make it right or more illuminating of the original cultures. As a protestant or a supporter of Luther that should just be logical, or he would never have left the Catholic Church. This also doesn't do justice to the reality in the gulf between ancient times and now in terms of knowledge and change. The current concept of homosexuality is a 19th-century development! Sodomy covered a lot of practices, including between men and women, and isn't a completely equal term. Literalism and harvesting quotes tend not to serve much use either, usually because there is always an exception or contradiction in how different issues are approached. Unless someone is going to be a hypocrite, and be honest about it, it's hard to see how that can work under any scrutiny.
@@BungleZippie All the church has always agreed on this, and the scholarship that tries not to see a condemnation of homosexuality in those biblical passages is a crass joke at best
@@lorenzomurrone2430 As I said, it doesn't make much sense for protestants to use the time argument or there'd never have been a reformation in the first place. I'm still trying to think of one area where the Church has always agreed on something - I can't think of any historically! Anyway, in terms of homosexuality, that was a 19th-century concept alien to biblical society. So, they haven't always agreed on that actually! Biblical writers just didn't have that in their grasp. So, what was it they were apparently condemning? The scholarship is actually pretty strong in looking at this, partly as it has been so contentious. We know that in those texts they were rejecting pederasty, temple prostitution and rape (be it with a slave or not). Basically, abuses of power or in worshipping pagan gods. There is also an overlap here with notions of masculinity, culture and need to emphasise separation from pagan culture and to, in certain ways, try to exceed the morality of the Jews. Male sexual behaviour between men was seen as indulgent, frivolous and pagan. They had zero concepts of sexual orientation - instead, seeing everyone as 'heterosexual' and people merely deciding to engage in certain sexual behaviours that could be ethically curtailed or regulated. Pretty much as with drug or gambling laws today. It's unfortunate you disregard lots of the academic scholarship here. Prayers and every blessing!
@@BungleZippie You're reading only a part of the scholarship, for obvious confirmation bias. I'm sorry for being too harsh, but that's just evident! You're basing your statements on the research of fellas like Elliot while ignoring completely the fact that others have already abundantly responded to his bizarre ideas. And no, same-sex intercourse has existed since antiquity. If you want a summary of quotations from the church fathers, here you go: www.churchfathers.org/homosexuality
That's the problem for me here in germany. They even advocate for said things on their websites. That it is important to have sex before marriage to see if your relationship will hold and to get experience. That's totally okay to try to change your god givin gender and all of that. If they really want to believe this things, that's allright in my book, but i don't want to be a member then.
The whole point of Lutheranism is be based on the Bible. Only scripture. Scripture says no gay marriage. If some denominations deviate from that they are in error. I changed from one lutheran denomination to a Bible based Lutheran Church. A lot of people just don't bother finding out or stay in their local church for social reasons.
@@Dilley_G45 It sort of started out with such claims, as did all the reformers who disagreed with each other. A lot of what Luther decried was right but he obvs wasn't perfect. Anyway, a lot of problems occur because people take recent concepts, ideas and definitions and foister them on the past where it doesn't work. The concept of gay and homosexuality, as would be understood today, didn't even exist in the biblical period. That is why it is essential to have people educated in the Bible - the time, the intention, the genre, the socio-political impacts and so on. Too many people make claims that are, to put it bluntly, ludicrous and run the risk of not only false witness but also blasphemy.
You know that he's a pastor right? A (I'm guessing Missouri synod) pastor who strictly adheres to the Bible...Also by what you just said you are judging his actions and thus oppressing him. The Bible says some lovely things about taking the log out of your own eye before taking the splinter out of anothers'.
I have no idea what kind of Lutheran he is but The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and every single Lutheran Church in Europe supports gay rights so I would say Lutherans are in favour
That's not true. True Lutheran Churches like SELK in Germany do not practice "gay marriage" because as a church they won't do something that goes against the word of God
I feel really sorry for this person that could even fix his or her lips to say those words about our Lord Jesus Christ !! I pray that one day you will seek salvation, for your soul because as of now you are hell bound!
What is with all of these unnecessary titles? He's simply a christian(based off his beliefs), you won't find the word "Lutheran" in the bible. So sick of all these stupid denominations or "man-made" titles. If you are a follower of JESUS CHRIST you're A CHRISTIAN. When someone asked you, merely say, I'm a Christian-- that's it. All these "denominations" are what's causing division in the body of Christ. Man always has to complicate things when God makes it easy. God Bless!
WE MUST NOT DEVIATE FROM THE BIBLE. PROGRESSIVE POLITICS HAS ENTERED THE CHURCH AND JESUS IS NOT GOING FOR THIS. BEING POPULAR IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST IDEA. TRUTH IS TOUGH.
chewing gum in class is a sin. also priests committing buggery with altar boys yeah that's a crime and instead of getting protected via coverup they should go to jail.
@@revfrsanctus i'll try. how about murdering the inhabitants of the entire planet with the exception of noah and his clan. eight all told. funny thing young innocent children died as well. that makes god a class A hypocrite. do as i say not as i do. remember that little beaut of a commandment "THOU SHALT NOT KILL!." also, one of the seven things that god supposedly hates is Hands that shed innocent blood: This refers to cold-blooded murder. hello god? THOU HYPOCRITE. How much innocent blood is on your hands. of course you being a reasonable minded person will see the logic in my argument. NOT. I'm sure you'll come up with some horseshit that we can't know gods will. throw the word mysterious in there. any excuse you can think of because hey you can't cross god right? no matter how much of a homicidal maniac he is.
I am no preacher first off but I am a Lutheran. I always say marriage and couples were ment to be able to have children (if your healthy and what not) also look at gays for example if your not careful you can tear the dudes colon but with woman an man the woman you know what is naturally "moisturized" and can take a lot before it rips. As for women with women they usually need "prosthetics" to make love. You don't need anything for a healthy man and woman to be "together" plus it is possible to bring new life without any special modern technology. That is how I would describe it to the type of people who say it's "natural" for gays and lesbians.....if it's natural why do they need extra things involved usually.....why do gays have more risk of crap bring deformed or ripped.....and why can't either make babies!!!! To be natural they would need to reproduce. *again this is just how I see it and usually try to explain it to people who refuse to listen to Bible readings*
I live in Finland and in here lutheranism is the state religion, state church, and we have gay and shemale priests, yet you say its sinful? so pls explain
I disagree with this guy, but he's not hateful. People need to realize that there is a difference between hate and disagreement.
It is so nice to hear what I believe said in such a kind way. I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran. This explains is perfectly. I have read the Bible for Lent several times and it is clear. Thank you.
I am an Orthodox Christian and I admire your position and I am agreed with everything you said! It would be wonderful if all Lutherans would have the same opinion like you!
@street89fighter There are several types of Lutheran. The largest group, the ELCA, are very liberal and have gay clergy. The LCMS do not support gay marriage.
Am I the only Catholic here ok then
I am a Canadian so I feel compelled to correct a misperception in this video. Gay marraige has been the law in Canada since 2015. More recently a law was passed banning so called conversion therapy. But there is no law forbidding Christians from saying that homosexuality is a sin, if that's how they see the matter. To qualify as hate speech, such rhetoric would have to be seen as inciting harm against a person.
I'm ELCA Lutheran and i 100% agree with this Pastor. We know it's a sin. It's in the Bible, other Lutherans who don't believe it, are twisting the word of the Bible to fit their views.
AmyCummingsIrishDanceMom The ELCA is apostate and absolutely rejects the teachings of the Bible and of God Himself.
You Do know that you people take one part as literal as possible but you take another part that you don't like and say no no no this part dosent matter so then your whole religion dosen matter
Pastor Hershman Agree, that’s why I am LCMS.
Amy you're a insane bigot that uses a book written by primitive barbaric desert dwellers as a reason for you're hate. You need help maybe psych meds
However, the ELCA has congregations that do not agree with you and welcome LGBTQIA+ families.
I am a Catholic and completely agree with you on the Biblical basis for marriage being between a man and a woman. Every society has upheld the union of a man and a woman because the family is the building block of any society. The family is also a metaphor of the Trinity. It is the love between the spouses that a child is born. All sexual sins are such, because either they lack the procreative, or the unitive aspect of the sexual union. There is no homosexual union that is procreative, it is therefore intrinsically disordered. The statistics support the fact that homosexuality on average shortens one's life span by 30 yrs. Even in terms of the natural law, one should question the rationale of homosexuality.
Come on. Obama never came out in favor of gay marriage. His expression was only of tolerance not of support or encouragement
I am gay and I completely understand his explanation. I feel like people nowadays (liberals) are overly sensitive. I respect the Church's views and I feel like we need more understanding in this world.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America holds a different point of view, welcoming LGBTQIA+ people, their marriages, their families....
@@splashpont they are jews lol not christians
Gay Marriage? It seems preferable to grumpy marriage. ... Oops, that's not what you meant, is it?
But to the real subject, why does society recognize marriage at all, since it's essentially a private arrangement? The answer I can come up with is the societal interest in the welfare of children, which homosexual unions are incapable of producing. So they don't need permanence or the income-splitting aspects of the federal income tax. They're just individuals.
The Lord is the one that says what he says about marriage and homosexuality. It would be "silly" to doubt the His words. We have divisions because of Jesus. His Word brings together. His Word divides - like on this subject.
Thank you my brother. I am not a Lutheran per se oh, but I do thank God for the stand that Martin Luther took against the errors of the Catholic Church. And I agree with many things that you teach and say.
I’m glad that you described marriage as the picture of the relationship between God and his bride. That was wise.
Also, sin is sin. God’s view is clear and people know this. But they deliberately choose to go their own way.
Loved this! I wish you were my pastor =) You have a new subscriber sir =)
From reading through the comments I must say, it is sad to see so many "Lutherans" disagreeing and hearing that their church supports it....It shows churches are turning to worldly views and are no longer preaching or following God's teaching.
Jesus was demonstrating the necessity of grace when he didn't stone Mary Magdalene; and when he spoke to her after the other men left, he said "Go, and sin no more". He did not condone the sin, he forgave her and asked her not to do it anymore. In my view, Christians should encourage gays (and everyone else) to ask Jesus for forgiveness, and go, sin no more and submit themselves to God's will. If they choose not to, we should respect their decision and let them use the free will God gave them.
To Darthrevan: The word gay originally meant bright,happy, festive,colorful. It has been perverted. So called gay marriage-there is no such thing in the divine order. It is verboten! In German, this means forbidden, prohibited. As Christians, we are to hate the sin, but love the offender. We must stand for Holy Scripture,though. We are to accept people,but not compromise standards.
I can’t rephrase that any better, that’s my response to any friend that comes to me about this issue. Have a nice day if you read this comment!
So, Does it count if you followed God your entire life, went to church, sought after God, prayed and read your Bible, served in the name of Christ, but you were still gay? Because what I'm getting from what you're saying is that it when you reject God that you become gay.... but all of that mustn't count unless you grew up Lutheran?
I don't know I you'll find out when your being judged by God.
The symbol of his youtube page is the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod), which is more scripture minded than the ELCA.
@Jonathan Williams Hillsong ..Bethel 🤣
The WHOLE POINT of Romans 1 is Rom:2:1 "You therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgement on someone else."
My family is German-American. We have always spoke German. We actually came to America during the 1800 period. Therefore we were German-American and religion is Lutheran. I was baptized and brought up to be Lutheran. Not to mention we've always had a bad reputation for gay people. Yeah some were friends with. No we never told them they're going to hell or homosexuality is a sin. We just greet each other and mind our own business. So, yeah I personally was told by a pastor at a church to never hate, as that in itself is a sin. I can say I don't like that or that's not good. You get the point. Good day to you, Pastor and God be with you always.✝️🙏
Air, land_combat 2017 that is a sin, not trying to help someone out of sin. You are truly a terrible person.
NotATroll We cannot help them our neighbors tried, didn't work. Sorry.
Yeah, that wasn’t serious, I was hoping you wouldn’t take it as such. Just try your hardest to talk with them and pray for them.
You sound Christ-like, especially if you go to homes of sinners and eat with them(that would be everyone). Now while Jesus preached at the dinner table (he was a rabbi, after all), he still ate with those who did not believe or agree (though he did call out the hypocrites whose attitude towards others did not match their actions!). We can do the same.
Proud Lutheran here. So glad I found this channel. If you're answering questions, can you answer some for me, please?
I was born at the Lutheran hospital, went to public school, but bible study 3 days a week at my church (Ascension Lutheran), now I'm a WELS member.
+Richard Dewey -- We got to stop meeting like this! :P Seriously speaking, it's not as if I needed to watch this 'HTI' video (I saw it on the right-hand side) because I have quite a handful of material on the Bible and homo-eroticism in my personal library and eBook collection. But I took the plunge just to see what he had to say. That and finding him pleasing to the ear unlike Pastor Fisk who annoys me and especially with his constant hand-waving. Nothing really new other than good old-fashioned straight up talk. Now if he and other Lutheran pastors can only chill out a bit with this issue and focus in on divorce & remarriage (re: much more detrimental to the "nuclear family" and white well-being) since those of us of a heterosexual bent can squirm a bit similar to how gays & lesbians feel when this particular subject matter -- and the so-called *_"clobber texts"_* -- get brought up.
Thank you, Pastor George. You spoke the truth, what God's Holy Word says. There is no changing of God's Word to suit some people's point of view, they would distort the real and true meaning if they could. I love God's Holy Word and I thank you again for teaching us the truth. God Bless you, Pastor George Borghardt...
Apart from the grammar, did you understand what I was talking about with a "biblical worldview?"
Well i like this Pastor of the Lutheran Church. I am Eastern Orthodox and i find so amazed that there are still - God Bless- Lutheran Orthodox priests who are passionate and right. Without people like this pastor the Church is still alive.
I am Lutheran, born and raised, I don't have anything against gay marriage. In my opinion people can do whatever they want as long as they don't bother anyone else with it, and I don't see how two men or two women(whom I don't even know) getting married will affect me or bother me or my personal life in anyway. I do however think that those who solely rely on what bible verses says and live their lives strictly after them; needs to get with the times and also wake up and see reality with a pair of open eyes. Sorry but that's my opinion as a Lutheran, and if my opinion upsets you then go cry to your mamma.
You are such a Liar Immorten. No way are you a Lutheran! One comment of yours sussed you out for the liar that you are. eg " I do however think that those who solely rely on what bible verses says and live their lives strictly after them; needs to get with the times "! If you was a Lutheran you would know damn well that Martin Luther was a staunch believer in Sola Scriptura (Bible Scripture Alone)! One of Luthers main reasons for his depature from the Catholic Church was indeed due to Sola Scripture.
Sola Scriptura (Latin: by Scripture alone) is a Christian theological doctrine which holds that the Christian Scriptures are the sole infallible rule of faith and practice.This means BIBLE SCRIPTURE Immorten! If you deny Sola Scriptura ,which you clearly do, then it makes no sense in you being a Lutheran!
your no lutheran
Well then you're not Lutheran, you're a liar. Because you don't reason your beliefs through the bible and through the word of God, but you reason it through your own, flawed human way of thinking. Don't ever call yourself "Lutheran", or infact "Christian" again. You are a disgrace to real, believing Christians who do read their bible and who do submit to God, unlike you.
ELCA is lutheran in name only.
Matthew Mueller Ya got that right not even Christians really either mostly KOOKY Liberals.
I was raised Lutheran my entire life, & in my 28+ years of life, I've never heard anything like this from the church I went to. I'm bisexual, & I think it's ridiculous that people think it's a sin. Even if it were, why do you care? No one is forcing you to sleep with someone of the same sex. Other people being gay, trans, etc. doesn't have an effect on your life. Christianity is supposed to be about "Loving the neighbor", right? Then why do Christian people spew so much hate to the LGBT community??? Why not go on a crusade against people eating seafood? The Bible says that's a sin too, right? Same with cutting your hair. I don't see people going off on those "sins", yet for some reason, some Christian people just want to go after the LGBT community like it's their life mission. I don't understand that type of thinking. It's reasons like this that I don't fully identify as a Christian anymore. I now consider myself an Agnostic-theist, more or less. People just need to get over this issue. Do something productive with your life. Stop spreading hate that you masquerade as "love". It's time to stop.
You're basically saying the same about all sins. So we should ignore that murder is a sin just because the bible suggests people not eat seafood? Um, no. I never saw it declared a sin to do that... It was suggested because at that time people got ill from it. They didn't have refrigerators like we do now.
One thing you are not considering. Christianity is not about loving our neighbour. Christianity is about Christ. And He said: He who is not with me, is against me.
@@IcySlavKat Nonetheless, whatever the source of your lifestyle may be, homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Co. 6.9-10). Furthermore you dishonor the teachings of your religion (Catholicism) and making a diy version thereof.
You never heard it, then let it be known to you in truth and love that Scripture teaches sexual immorality, including homosexuality, is a sin (Mark 7:20-23; Romans 1:23-27; 2 Corintians 6:9)
Jesus preached repentance, meaning to change your mind and turn from sin. (Matthew 4:17)
Jesus said He came to call sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32)
Jesus called us to radical love and devotion to Himself, to love Him above all else (Matthew 10:37-39)
Jesus instructed us to deny ourselves and follow Him (Matthew 16:24)
Flee from or Run away from sexual immorality (1 Corinthians 6:18)
We are baptized into Christ death, dying to sin, and living by Christ alive in us by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 6:3-12; Romans 8:8-14; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:14; Galatians 5:24)
Toria8806 it's not that people think it's a sin, it's that the Holy Bible says it is
Robert,
Thanks for your reply.
I think you need to recheck your facts. Many Lutherans and Christians suffered in Germany during the Nazi oppression. What you said simply isn't factual.
I completely agree with this message, don't judge just respectfully disagree
Ick Brick52 very smart move. I do the same.
Smart move I agree
Your on the right side of God on this one
wow! very well said. Redefining marriage (in favor of same sex marriage) is a real threat to religious liberties. Soon enough those who support "gay rights" will demand that the Bible be banned because it states that homosexual acts are sinful.
Religious Liberties MUST be defended.
Thank you pastor, It is refreshing to know that there are still Churches that let the Bible call the shots rather than letting the current society boss the church around. I agree with your perspective and like the idea of respectfully disagreeing with the issue.
Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, not a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, despite what the homosexual community says.
The way the has to force himself to say gay marriage is hilarious. Made my day.
I grew up in the Lutheran church and still ended up gay. Despite all my prayers to "cure" me of this "affliction", I was neither cured nor ever heard an encouraging word from the pulpit. Instead I got the traditional Lutheran teaching that it was "OK*" to be gay so long as I never acted upon it. Basically it came down to: You must live alone and you'll die alone. No love. No family. That's about it. That was the Lutheran teaching to those with same sex attraction.
I'm gay myself and I see that as ok dying alone as long as I can get a spot in Heaven.
Grizzly,
Thanks for your honest answer.
Here we have the real difference: Sola Scriptura can't mean sola scriptura (Scripture alone) in your view of both homosexuality and marriage. We are bound by Scripture to teach and preach what Scripture says. It's not a matter of me being hateful or you being loving or visa versa. It's a matter of whether we are going to take the Scriptures or our own personal views as authoritative. Thanks for watching and thanks for pointing this out.
What do lutherans think of high church of England protestants
Thank you for clearing this up for me.
Well put Pastor Borghardt.
Jesus did die to free us from sin, but we aren't free from it until we agree with Him about it and confess that we needed Him to free us, then choose to live in this freedom. He doesn't force us to follow Him, he presents salvation to us, then let's us choose either Him or our own way.
Thank you for this post
Homosexuality is wrong period
nah
Im LDS, and my view is this. God told us to love all people, but a relationship between a man and woman is the correct doctrine. Im not going to judge thats not my responsibility. Everyone has their agency, and will do what they will. All we can do as Christians are to support and give our fellow brothers and sisters love. I cannot however necessarily support everyones lifestyle.
We don't ordain women because God's Word teaches us that women are too precious for such a job. As for "progressive," that's just another word for "more 'me' and less Christ." Rev. Mark Buetow HT Media Executive
Part 2: Why many churches disagree with the Lutheran view of gay marriage, how they defend it, and why they are wrong?
Joseph Taylor thank you pastor George . You spoke the truth.From the Gospel.Don't why Protestants especially want to twist the words of God in the Bible.The Bible says homosexuality (acts)is a sin.period.Protestant pastors who promote or agree on homosexual marriages should abandon their positions because they are NOT preaching that homosexual union is a SÌN no matter how you twist words around.Good on you Pastor George . God is on your side.
@@marialeba2131 it's not just the protestants any more as the new Catholic pope announced that it was no longer a sin to be gay I had a few friends who left the Catholic church because of it and became Lutheran because they did not agree with the pope on that and said they do not believe that the pope has no form of power to change God's law nor scriptures on such matters to make gay marriage holy is disrespectful to God.
Lutheranism is a vast and historic worldwide branch of Christianity. This video does not represent the Lutheran view, instead merely the presenter's view. While the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod holds mainly negative views on marriage equality, the much larger Evangelical Lutheran Church in America openly blesses same-sex unions, solemnizes the marriages of same-sex couples where it is legal, ordains LGBT ministers, and is welcoming to the gay community, their families, friends & allies.
It's not a matter of which church body has the most members, but rather which church body holds to God's Truth. It's this simple: The Bible is inerrant or it isn't. If it is, the answer is there. If it isn't, you can simply disagree and believe what you want.
This guy needs to be clear about his affiliation
This is NOT the view of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America where LGBTQIA+ families are welcome.
@@splashpont thank God this man has the biblical view which the eLCA is actively opposing. elca is heretic.
Praise God,this is called true knowledge of wisdom. With much compassion in dealing with sensitive issues. The Scripture's speak truth but humans keep trying to defile because of personal desire. Selfishness,greediness, etc..evil is really working to conquer the world but God will rescue his people. He is just and faithful to his promise. Let us be steadfast in our faith and wait His second coming soon. Peace!!!
NO YOU SHOULD NEVER PRAISE GOD!
How do you expect someone to change their feeling for another person,how could God expect that,i myself am straight and come from a lutheran family yet i have lots of gay freinds who love their partners and they cant control their feelings,i even know one whos gay and christian,how is a gay person supposed to just not be gay
Yeah, it's easy enough for people who don't feel that way to go gun-ho against gay people, but ya don't think gay people tried not being gay or weren't the happiest when they discovered what they were attracted to?
You actually think gay people just decided to go against the flow of all of Christianity for the banter? It's laughable that people would think that people choose being gay. It isn't and likely wasn't ever, before now, easier or the most enjoyable sin to partake in.
Also why would god not make everyone equal? why would you ingrain something in people's biology only to tell them "see that thing you can't change no matter what? Yeah you're going to burn for eternity. But that's your problem not mine"
Like what? It was either a taboo subject when it was written, and remained taboo until fairly recently, thus it's inclusion in the new and old testament. Or God's a bit of meanie who likes to fuck certain people over for the fun of it. Ya feel?
Edit: called god a "twat" and didn't want to burn for eternity so changed it to "meanie"
Great video! Stay strong and keep holding to the Holy Scriptures. Without the Bible, our experiences are subjective and we can easily be lead astray by our own thinking/feelings.
That's what you believe in. You also have to respect other people's beliefs that tell you they also love one another and believe in real love just like Jesus told us free of judgement because ultimately, it is God that will judge everyone in the end. You guys are feeling the heat now and don't like being called homophobes and are at the other end of the stick now. However, you keep spreading hate towards gays and to say we don't taunt gays or anything like that is the same as saying rich people will never get into heaven but hurry up and give us those donations because my limo is waiting to take me to my private jet so I can enjoy my mansion like a lot of churches do. All in the name of God
Say what???? Im laughing at your bumb ass. Im not Christian. Go wirshio the Duggars child molestor that your religion covers up. That is funny and very hypocritical!
Well your religion is all the same bullshit so you fit in the same sack of potatoes. You sound more ignorant assuming that i'm a Christian so there.
Don't worry I'll pray for you so that God makes you see the light and you stop spreading your message of hate. Just remember what Jesus said: love one another :)
You are not God so you cannot speak for him. Lucifer wanted to be like God and he was send to hell. Guess where you'll end up for trying to be like God. Exactly! No more of that Nonsense!
+juan cendra you have to realize that this video was made by an LCMS Lutheran Christian and for LCMS Lutheran Christians who know the rest of the Lutheran theology. What your saying points towards other theologies that aren't Lutheran, and saying that some Christians do hate speech or some other thing so all christians do it is a fallacy. That's almost like saying there are criminials and serial killers and there all people so all people are serial killers is a fallacy. At they end of the day Lutherans believe in the scriptures and that everyone is sinful and that we are saved by Christ's atoning sacrifice. We believe all sins are equally sinful in that they all bring us to hell. But we are saved by Christ and we recongnize that these things are evil and so we speak against them whether it's homosexuality or stealing. But we particularly speak against homosexuality in the current day and age because that's what people are having problems with today and we're just shedding what we believe to be the truth on the subject that homosexuality like all sins is wrong.
Now there are Christians from other theologies that say Christianity is right or even if they say it's wrong they go about it wrong but those are not LCMS Lutherans and you can't use those people as an example argument against us.
For the first amendment rights we respect that some people want to do homosexuality and believe it's right but they also have to accept that we think it's wrong and unless one side goes overboard like the westboro baptist church then there shouldn't really be a problem in both sides expressing there opinions. We have a modern belief that anyone who believes anything different then another person and criticizes is hateful or should be hated but that really is a narrow view.
Also we don't speak for God, God speaks in the bible and even if that wasn't the case the first amendment should protect us unless we where to go about our beliefs like the westboro baptist church. But yes if we were to be like Lucifer and go against the word of God we would go to hell but we firmly believe what the bible says is sin and that separates us from God and the only way back to God is Christ's death, his blood on the cross for us and that his body on the cross is the tree of life that saves us. It is a faith that trusts in Christ's justifying act despite seeing our own sins and the sin of the world that saves us and just like how adam's sin brought everyone in the world to evil, Christ's acts bring us back to where we were.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Enough said. Next...
"Sin" a religious invention to fudge the boundaries between right and wrong in their favor - for the right price and commitment to the brand you can cash in sin for absolution - a nice little earner
Sin is forgiven for free lmao
BELEIVE AND REST ON WHAT GOD IN JESUS CHRIST HAS DONE FOR YOU. REST, (FALL UPON IT) IT HOLDS YOU AND KEEPS YOU AS LONG AS GOD SHALL LIVE.
Thank you, Pastor. The ELCA leadership is all about being nice, not honoring the Scripture. Secular trumps God's Word. Sad.
Tolerance and love are not necessarily condoning. Final judgment is fo God.
Saw your comment and had to scroll up to see if there were trolls lol Good eye!
To Sarah Goodenough: God is not against having fun. He wants us to do that, but within safe boundaries. The trouble many people have is seeing God as giving thou shalt and thou shalt nots. As a lot of dictatorial restrictions on what you can do. Reading bewtween the lines, we discover that God has given a plan that delivers us from evil-a petition in the Lord's prayer. God wants to steer us out of harm's way. Certain practices in this world, even heterosexual ones, can get us in trouble.
Cast not judgement lest ye be judged.
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom? (1 Cor. 6.9)
Thank you for the obligatory ripping a verse out of context...
Where did he judge the individuals? He merely pointed out that the bible says it is a sin. There is a huge difference between judging and warning someone they are in danger.
Not Lutheran, however, this preacher teaches and speaks Truth from the Holy Bible.
Believers in God and the Son of God, Jesus Christ, do care about others’s soul and do worry about Souls that are caught in an act of sin, that is could be endangered to go tohell.
We Believers want to warn others (especially believers) that Jesus saves one from Hell upon Repentance, Confession, Jesus is Lord, Baptism, and walk in newness following the laws of Jesus, therefore, we try to point out dangerous choices we all make from time to time. But it is everyone’s choice. We then let it be your decision. Which is what many want anyway. Their own choice. We pray it is one that will have your soul in the presence of Love and Peace!
Well.. not entirely. What appears to be rambling by today's standards, is really just an explanation of our biblical worldview.
There is not such thing as a “homosexual marriage”.
That´s right Orangutan 141. In the Lutheran Church of Denmark there was also a video of the first gay marriage being performed. This was posted by Mark Thyrring on you tube. Matthew 25 states to us what is required of us as Christians by Jesus himself.
um, doesn't the lutherine church allow homosexuals to become ministers only ask them not to engage in homosexual "activity"? thanks
Its only the ELCA Lutherans that allow LGBT to become ministers,not the other Lutheran Churches. The ECLA has become infiltraited and infected by the Devil ,and thus has become apostate. They go against everything Luther stood for and believes in. Luther will be turning in his grave at the ELCA,
@@Michael-ir1fm The ELCA is open to biblical scholarship and the sciences. Thus, different conclusions are taken from reading the same Holy Writ.
I doubt it mattered that she was Jewish or Christian, or that Jesus hadn't died yet. She was a soul in need of forgiveness like everyone else; forgiveness and a new life was offered to her, and as far as I know, she took it.
I think you're exactly right when you say we all should care about our owns sins, and sometimes I think ppl need prompting to deal with their own sin. I know I did, and I'm thankful for the Sunday-School teacher who prompted me.
I read all these comments from 3-4 years ago about this video. Much has happened since it originally aired. The world is "codifying" many of the things the Pastor was worried about then. Maybe an update to this would be appropriate if he's up for more abuse.
THERE SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO BE A SUCH VIEW ON GAY MARRIAGE FROM A RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVE AND ONLY JUST BASED ON YOUR SECULAR OPINION!
and?????
If we're all still stained by sin, I guess Jesus died for nothing, correct? I'd love you to answer me that question from a Theological perspective, pastor. Besides, if Jesus didn't stone M. Magdalene for being a prostitute, does that mean he wasn't free from sin?
Even though I'm gay, I have nothing against practising Christians. I do combat the lunatic factions of Christianty, but at the same time, I give Catholics and Lutherans a chance to debate, coz you're the most rationalistic ones :)
I agree with you
Also are you ELCA?
Bradford Bogan And he is Pastor in the LCMS(Lutheran Church Missouri Synod)
I've struggle with it most all my life I know what bible says it has cause relationship issues with me any comment is appreciated have had counselling God can help with all things yes I'm Christian
Read the Gospel and pray. His ways are not the worldly ways. Get to know Jesus and scripture. Idolatry is creating a God that makes you feel good. In fact the first two commandments say this. His ways are not our way and out thoughts are not his thoughts. It’s very important to understand this. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus our Lord.
Love You All - In Christ
Sod and Gom?
Very good advice for all church denominations straight from God's word. In today's world the devil has used the news media and popular opinions instead of the gospel. There is actually no debate on the issue of homosexuals. The fact that common sense is not common brings everything home. In the first chapter of Romans we can read the scripture and find the words "God gave them up". This means that those who practice homosexuality will create their own destiny in the fires of hell. Amen.
don't the Lutheran church has gay bishops?
João Vítor Freitas da Silva unfortunately, not all Lutherans sing from the same song sheet, and many have abandoned Confessional Lutheranism. The conservative Lutherans have been faithful to the scriptures and hold to its truth.
Missouri Synod is basically out of the Lutheran Communion that practices apostolic succession. They are more like a cult of Bible-belt evangelicals rather than Catholic Christians.
@@charleshappold4637 No. Not even close.
To pastor George Vorcroft: Congratulations on the expression of most of this viewpoint. I believe that Holy Scripture DOES make an issue aboht male with female for marriage and for sex. If it didn't, what ground would we have to say homosexuality is a sin? As it is, we DO have a realistic ground to stand on. I agree that fundamentalists dk a lot of fingerpointing as if homosexuality is the worst of all sins. Proverbs 6,16-18 imparts that spiritual pride is the worst of all.
Not all Lutherans think alike. Not all Lutheran church bodies & organizations hold the same positions, and neither do individual members within them. This video represents the view of 1 Lutheran within 1 organization. For example, in the U.S. the 2.2 million member Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is officially against LGBT equality, while the 3.95 million member Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is for it. It is not about who is right. It's about not presuming to speak for all Lutherans.
ELCA is NOT Lutheran if they do not hold to the basis tenets of the Lutheran church as defined by the Unaltered Lutheran Confessions. You hold to them, or you don't; the Lutheran Church is NOT a cafeteria.
I visited a Lutheran church that boasts and prays for acceptance of Gays. During communion, an underaged child held the chalice of wine. I don't think I will be returning there. I cant tell you how many churches I visited that believe in supporting the gay agenda and I could not help but think to myself did these pastors not read their bible correctly? On the web I went in another denominations page and saw four to five children playing in the baptismal water font with their hands. They had to be around 3 or 4 and I thought to myself that children pick their noses and sneeze and the baptismal font is not a play toy. Shame on that minister who allowed that to happen. We may be God's children but we are not his "buddy" Therefore we should show proper respect for the sacraments. One church served Ritz crackers as the bread another I have seen used pita bread. I was told by other Lutherans not to judge others because they were gay however there is a difference between judging and pointing out scripture as it is God's word.
If you ever visit another "Lutheran" church, ask the Pastor if the congregation holds to the Unaltered Augsburg Confession. these are the tenants of the Lutheran faith. If he answers, "No", turn around and run!
Y'all I ain't tryna judge ima just say the truth. The bible was translated so many times that's the King James version is incorrect. It should say that "men shall not lay with boy" in regard to pedophilia not "men shall not lay with man" **and they said nothing about a woman with a woman sO**
sandwich anxiety no
The new testament was written in ancient Greek, I'm Greek and you're wrong. The KJV bible is the closest translation out of all bibles.
I don't think this Pastor listens to Nadia Bolz Weber...Thank God!
I am debating which side of the American Lutheran sphere I want to go ... while I am for gay rights I don't believe they should trample the rights of others ....
The episcopal church and elca both accept LGBT members however neither speaks for all anglicans or Lutheran as well ...
Because I didn’t know this fact when I was 12 and it really screwed me up when coming out and on my faith journey. THIS IS NOT ELCA! Any ELCA member looking for the ELCA opinion I would highly suggest you go to the ELCA website or speak to an ELCA Pastor. This man is not ELCA and this is NOT the belief of the ELCA.
You are correct! This is NOT the view of the ELCA...which is sad, because it is what the Bible teaches.
This video is the view of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod. LGBTQIA+ people are officially welcomed by congregations of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. Speak with a pastor there if you have any concerns, questions, wish to marry, etc.
I happily agree! He is NOT preaching what ELCA believes, he is preaching the biblical (and Lutheran) view.
Thanks, refreshing.
Just because you "believe" your scriptures are true does not mean that you have authority to impose your beliefs on others. While I'm glad you mentioned not being violent or hateful to people in the LGBT community, recognize that literally ANYONE can have a scripture that conflicts with yours.
You have no way of knowing whether you are following God's will or they are. Your beliefs hold no more authority over other people than someone who is a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Jane, a Jew or someone who believes in the Olympian God Zeus.
D4n21 no they can’t. The bible is true, and that has been proven multiple times, the Old Testament was fulfilled by Jesus, Judaism is fulfilled so no longer a thing. Islam is false, it is so easy to tear apart the scripture of the Koran. The buddists don’t even believe in a god, when it has been proven by Christians and Jews that God exists and that he created the world. Zeus is a joke, not even going to answer that one. But, what is a Jane? Never heard of that one? Is it a cult?
Judging can be oppression if you think he ought to be silenced from the views gleaned by watching his video. He may be a little patronizing but please don't assume his intent. I don't agree with him, but I wouldn't assume what he thinks deep down. Even if it does seem evident...
I don't care what the world says, homosexuality is wrong. would I hesitate to help a person that is gay? no. would I attend their wedding ceremony? nope buy I wouldn't be invited in the first place which is fine with me.
as to the world, I don't care what happens to it. I am sitting waiting for Jesus to come.
“love your neighbor as yourself”
The problems with his view is it disregards a large amount of theological and academic scholarship on the topic. He must know this if he went to a good college and so I think, and can only conclude, that this damage (reenforcing a biased view) is deliberate.
I think he misrepresents the issues in favour of a specific viewpoint that he obviously agrees with. But that doesn't do justice or humility to the fact that the scriptures don't totally lean how he would like. Lets not forget clerics have been on the side of most things we now reject in terms of slaves, violence for religious ends, holding back rights of women etc. There are no concrete conclusions on these issues, simply Gods grace and love
@@lorenzomurrone2430That's not what Luther said!
@@lorenzomurrone2430 Not necessarily so actually. Just because something has been perpetuated for a time doesn't make it right or more illuminating of the original cultures. As a protestant or a supporter of Luther that should just be logical, or he would never have left the Catholic Church. This also doesn't do justice to the reality in the gulf between ancient times and now in terms of knowledge and change. The current concept of homosexuality is a 19th-century development! Sodomy covered a lot of practices, including between men and women, and isn't a completely equal term. Literalism and harvesting quotes tend not to serve much use either, usually because there is always an exception or contradiction in how different issues are approached. Unless someone is going to be a hypocrite, and be honest about it, it's hard to see how that can work under any scrutiny.
@@BungleZippie All the church has always agreed on this, and the scholarship that tries not to see a condemnation of homosexuality in those biblical passages is a crass joke at best
@@lorenzomurrone2430 As I said, it doesn't make much sense for protestants to use the time argument or there'd never have been a reformation in the first place. I'm still trying to think of one area where the Church has always agreed on something - I can't think of any historically! Anyway, in terms of homosexuality, that was a 19th-century concept alien to biblical society. So, they haven't always agreed on that actually! Biblical writers just didn't have that in their grasp. So, what was it they were apparently condemning? The scholarship is actually pretty strong in looking at this, partly as it has been so contentious. We know that in those texts they were rejecting pederasty, temple prostitution and rape (be it with a slave or not). Basically, abuses of power or in worshipping pagan gods. There is also an overlap here with notions of masculinity, culture and need to emphasise separation from pagan culture and to, in certain ways, try to exceed the morality of the Jews. Male sexual behaviour between men was seen as indulgent, frivolous and pagan. They had zero concepts of sexual orientation - instead, seeing everyone as 'heterosexual' and people merely deciding to engage in certain sexual behaviours that could be ethically curtailed or regulated. Pretty much as with drug or gambling laws today. It's unfortunate you disregard lots of the academic scholarship here. Prayers and every blessing!
@@BungleZippie You're reading only a part of the scholarship, for obvious confirmation bias. I'm sorry for being too harsh, but that's just evident! You're basing your statements on the research of fellas like Elliot while ignoring completely the fact that others have already abundantly responded to his bizarre ideas.
And no, same-sex intercourse has existed since antiquity. If you want a summary of quotations from the church fathers, here you go: www.churchfathers.org/homosexuality
As a Baptist this guy and Lutheran satire sometimes makes me want to be Lutheran
This isn't the Lutheran view. It's his own view and probably the LCMS. Majority of Lutherans, esp in Europe, don't agree with this view.
Because most Lutherans aren't really lutheran...
That's the problem for me here in germany. They even advocate for said things on their websites. That it is important to have sex before marriage to see if your relationship will hold and to get experience. That's totally okay to try to change your god givin gender and all of that. If they really want to believe this things, that's allright in my book, but i don't want to be a member then.
The whole point of Lutheranism is be based on the Bible. Only scripture. Scripture says no gay marriage. If some denominations deviate from that they are in error. I changed from one lutheran denomination to a Bible based Lutheran Church. A lot of people just don't bother finding out or stay in their local church for social reasons.
@@pfw4568 try the "SELK" in Germany
@@Dilley_G45 It sort of started out with such claims, as did all the reformers who disagreed with each other. A lot of what Luther decried was right but he obvs wasn't perfect. Anyway, a lot of problems occur because people take recent concepts, ideas and definitions and foister them on the past where it doesn't work. The concept of gay and homosexuality, as would be understood today, didn't even exist in the biblical period. That is why it is essential to have people educated in the Bible - the time, the intention, the genre, the socio-political impacts and so on. Too many people make claims that are, to put it bluntly, ludicrous and run the risk of not only false witness but also blasphemy.
Logos
You know that he's a pastor right? A (I'm guessing Missouri synod) pastor who strictly adheres to the Bible...Also by what you just said you are judging his actions and thus oppressing him. The Bible says some lovely things about taking the log out of your own eye before taking the splinter out of anothers'.
Not all Lutherans believe Homosexuality is a sin...
LGBTQIA+ Lutherans may want to visit a congregation of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
I have no idea what kind of Lutheran he is but The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and every single Lutheran Church in Europe supports gay rights so I would say Lutherans are in favour
That's not true. True Lutheran Churches like SELK in Germany do not practice "gay marriage" because as a church they won't do something that goes against the word of God
I feel really sorry for this person that could even fix his or her lips to say those words about our Lord Jesus Christ !! I pray that one day you will seek salvation, for your soul because as of now you are hell bound!
What is with all of these unnecessary titles? He's simply a christian(based off his beliefs), you won't find the word "Lutheran" in the bible. So sick of all these stupid denominations or "man-made" titles. If you are a follower of JESUS CHRIST you're A CHRISTIAN. When someone asked you, merely say, I'm a Christian-- that's it. All these "denominations" are what's causing division in the body of Christ. Man always has to complicate things when God makes it easy. God Bless!
WE MUST NOT DEVIATE FROM THE BIBLE. PROGRESSIVE POLITICS HAS ENTERED THE CHURCH AND JESUS IS NOT GOING FOR THIS. BEING POPULAR IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST IDEA. TRUTH IS TOUGH.
chewing gum in class is a sin. also priests committing buggery with altar boys yeah that's a crime and instead of getting protected via coverup they should go to jail.
Lame.
@@revfrsanctus gay marriage has been if effect for years now. funny the earth hasn't crumbled.
IN effect.
@@paulirving337 Right.. because that's how God works! He works through striking people down with lightning. NOT
I think you can do better than that...
@@revfrsanctus i'll try. how about murdering the inhabitants of the entire planet with the exception of noah and his clan. eight all told. funny thing young innocent children died as well. that makes god a class A hypocrite. do as i say not as i do. remember that little beaut of a commandment "THOU SHALT NOT KILL!." also, one of the seven things that god supposedly hates is Hands that shed innocent blood: This refers to cold-blooded murder. hello god? THOU HYPOCRITE. How much innocent blood is on your hands.
of course you being a reasonable minded person will see the logic in my argument. NOT. I'm sure you'll come up with some horseshit that we can't know gods will. throw the word mysterious in there. any excuse you can think of because hey you can't cross god right? no matter how much of a homicidal maniac he is.
I am no preacher first off but I am a Lutheran. I always say marriage and couples were ment to be able to have children (if your healthy and what not) also look at gays for example if your not careful you can tear the dudes colon but with woman an man the woman you know what is naturally "moisturized" and can take a lot before it rips. As for women with women they usually need "prosthetics" to make love. You don't need anything for a healthy man and woman to be "together" plus it is possible to bring new life without any special modern technology. That is how I would describe it to the type of people who say it's "natural" for gays and lesbians.....if it's natural why do they need extra things involved usually.....why do gays have more risk of crap bring deformed or ripped.....and why can't either make babies!!!! To be natural they would need to reproduce. *again this is just how I see it and usually try to explain it to people who refuse to listen to Bible readings*
I live in Finland and in here lutheranism is the state religion, state church, and we have gay and shemale priests, yet you say its sinful? so pls explain