Rolls-Royce Mk58 Griffon V12 Engine (the Merlin's bigger brother): START-UP
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2023
- Bigger brother to the famous Merlin, we get to fire up a Rolls-Royce V12 Mk58 Griffon engine, as it gets prepared to be used in a car!!!!!
Griffon Mk58 specs (without modification):
Engine type: V-12 piston aero, 60° V
Power: 2,450hp takeoff at 2,750 RPM
Original application: Used in Avro Shackleton reconnaissance plane
Bore by stroke: 6 by 6.6 inches
Supercharger type: Two-speed, single-stage centrifugal with 13.4 inch impeller
Boost control: Automatic boost regulator
Fuel system: Speed/density type fuel injection into eye of supercharger
Weight: 2,000 pounds - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Tractors are the reason merlins and griffons are impossibly expensive and rare these days. Thanks guys.
many are and have been used in the unlimited hydroplane sport since way back in the 50's. I saw piles of blown RR aircraft engines in Seattle Washington USA outside some of the hydroplane hangers where these boats were built, maintained and as of late restored.
@@3RTracing Yeah the race boats were another sport that ate through these engines in a hurry. In the beginning they were using the non-airworthy Packard engines from PT boats (the 3M/4M/5M-2500, not the Packard Merlin) which was fine and that's kind of what they were meant for at least, until they realized the Merlins were able to make more power and sustain it for longer.
Other horror stories include using Allison V12's for irrigating wheat fields and Packards for gas compressor stations, I kind of give the guys a pass that use non-airworthy V12's in their one-off cars. They're not really taking anything off the market for aircraft, they're utilizing something that can't be put back into an aircraft ever again.
I love the sound of a Rolls Royce V12 in the morning, afternoon or evening! Great work lads, keep 'em running.
Rolls Royce has and always will make the best engines. As an American, I have no problem admitting that, they are the like nothing else. Along with the best names: Merlin, Griffon, Viper, Pegasus, and Olympus in particular
Take a closer look at the Alison 1710 then.. a MUCH better engine that simply lacked the political interest to refine & develop it.. the Alison was the precursor to ALL modern engines since.. a light weight "monoblock" engine with proper pentroff combustion chamber heads.. unlike the bolted together RR V12s cylinder banks bolted to two peice crankcases, long stroke & horrible bath tub combustion chambers purely for simple manufacturing machining.. they were 20s technology that were built on WW1 design concepts
Viper, Pegasus and Olympus were engines made by Bristol Siddeley which became part of the Rolls-Royce group in 1966.
@@Errol.C-nzYeah, and you never hear people stop talking about them🙄 The development of the Merlin over the period of the war helped win it and as we all know turned the lack lustre Parkard powered mustang into viable and feared fighter. The 1710 a better engine ?? Who knows, it certainly isn’t the immortal engine the Merlin is.
RR designed the Merlin however .. the best made versions (along with design improvements) were made by Packard of the US
@@r066tx that's politics of the time.. doesn't make it a better engine.. ALL modern engines today.. monoblock pentroff as per the German Damler engines in the Messerschmit carry the same design & engineering as the Alison.. not the RR.. the Alison carried on as a better race engine in performance & endurance.. still .. neither were as good as the Bristol sleeve valve engines or Napier..
I see flames so I like
I haven’t watched this properly yet, because at 76 nearly now, you’ve flashed me back to my engineering start as a toolmaker in1963! I was very lucky to have done major involvement in resurrecting a Gnome 7 cylinder rotary, two Anzani Aero engines, a Stanley steam car boiler a McLaren traction engine and finally much work on Concorde! All True! However, the Merlin etc, engines would have been the icing on the cake! No such luck! I truly admire the research and major undertaking that is the work you have brought to some sort of completion! So well done! Someone has to do it! Really! Cheers
They always burnt a lot of oil but a lot less than the contemporary radials. Merlin had major problems with throwing con-rods that it was speed limited to 3000 rpm and even then it would just throw a rod. Test engineer Harry Ricardo mentioned one day that his V twins (1/6 of a Merlin) never had a rod problem at far higher speeds. They realised that he was using a full size oil pump so what was an engine with 6x as many bearings throwing wobblers? It turned out the big ends were centrifuging the oil away faster than the pump could supply. Closer clearances and a (much) bigger oil pump solved the problem.
Sounds like subaru should take note..
It burnt less and less oil as it was further developed. The Merlin con-rod problem was addressed in A.C, Lovesey's paper "Development of the Rolls-Royce Merlin from 1939 to 1945", which shows the high-stress areas around the lugs in the original con-rod design, a picture of the original design and a picture of the redesigned con-rod.
@@robertnicholson7733 Thanks and it was Lovesey that said post war Merlin engine all improvements by R/R not Packard
@@jacktattisI have a friend who is a retired aircraft engineer with warbird experience. He once told me that the difference between the Packard Merlin and the Rolls Royce Merlin, was that the Packard Merlins rattle. The Packard factory did not focus on manufacturing their Merlins to the tolerances that Rolls Royce did because they felt the engines only needed to last as long as the aircraft.
I have never heard that But if it did it could have been the Jesse Vincent epicyclic geared supercharger.
Magnificent machines, incredible testimony to those men who created them. What a thrill it must have been to use them.
So great to see people that really understand these magnificent engines making them reliable and producung full power. Just brilliant!
What a handsome beast that engine is,love it.
Just one word. "BEAST"!!!!!!!
That bell housing would cost what the engine does to have it custom made. Incredible job.
It's beautiful isn't it? 💕
I like the "looking up the exhaust ports" to see if all 12 are firing, and the valves are seating properly. 😄
Imagine flying that beast !!! Good job Lads 😉😎
One of the best engines ever built.
too much yackity yak. GET ON WITH IT!.
TELL EM!
Is yakity yak a form of valve bounce ?
Absolutely top notch.. Loved it. Keep the videos coming.
Thirty seven liters? Powerhouse!
ooh the view where you can see the exhaust valves is sick
What a BEAST of a motor!!
The temperature bulb at 13 mins in is filled with Turpentine, the expansion of which, when the bulb is heated, compresses the capsule on the pump and moves the needle further into the jet (as you deduced).Source RR injection pump manual
I would never have thought this was filled with that, thanks,.
Used to use it to dilute paint.
This is one of the best videos I've seen in my life
What a beautiful sound!
What a monster. It's a living thing
Stunning!
This is how ALL videos should be!! It starts with the title!! New subscriber! lol
Love the sound fantastic.
I think these guys are brilliant, this could not have been easy getting this beast of an engine going again. It's very impressive looking.
G'Day Fella's, Thank You for sharing the video. But more importantly, Thank You for keeping this kinda History operating. Regards Johno
I would really like to see one of these engines in person some day.
Awesome!😮 fantastic engineering 👏👍👌
Great job. 👍
I'd put that in my living room. Gorgeous motor....
How cool is that! Those engines both Merlin and Griffon are wicked... Built like a Swiss watch.
If Swiss watches were english 😂
Wow thats brilliant keep us posted
I have stood between 2 R/R Sea Griffons on start up several times. RAF target towing launches .2760 and 2772.
Not nearly as sweat as the Merlin but a great bit of engineering regardless. Nicely presented too!
I’m now officially in love
That was lovely Gentlemen thank you.
Wicked video lads keep it up
About the avgas/95 story, I suppose you have to adjust the timing quite a bit.
It's somewhat disappointing to see these Great engines that once graced the sky being used in Tractors.
I have a P 51 go over my house everyday man what a beautiful sound
Not if you lived in Berlin
do these guys have more footage of their engines anywhere? if there's a clean audio cut from idle to say 2000rpm that'd be golden!
Very enjoyable
Well done you blokes,ignore the knockers who probably would never have the brains or initiative to do what you are doing.
Let’s hear more when you’ve got it properly done and headers and coolant added so you can give it decent run.
I’d like to know more about old mate and his tractor puller too.👍✅. Leon Sth. Australia
Best Lope ever at idle ...
Absolute magic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow.. That's cool.
Amazing all these things from the old days of white England.
The War of the Roses 🌹?
Magnificent engine. I could be wrong, but I thought I heard that running a gas engine with no exhaust manifolds is not good. I would cry to see such a great engine damaged.
Beast!
British engineers at there very best
Scherman engineers are best -just ask them (or Hitler)
Proper blokes!
This is great! Subbed!
Was the cnc you did the bellhousing in one from the 30s and 40s??
love the old school RR engines, but suprised that your not running the correct spark plugs, they should be areo plugs in them as the gapping should be alot closer..
The cold air does wonders for exhaust valves when you shut it off.
love it 👍👍👍👍
I noticed no one is wearing ear protection, I mean its a absolutely wonderful sound but it most be amazingly loud.
Interestingly John Dodd's Merlin powered car used an up speed into the auto transmission.
It's crazy that you can see the two exhaust valves for a split second... 😲
You can tell that steam engine is the high performance Track Sport model, as it's got slick tyres...
Gotta love t' midlands 😂 i can feel the tension between these two 😂 not speaking is a discipline 😊
Love to see what those look like apart.
Beast❤
Nice to see kevin’s workshop
Is that a jet engine for heat stove?
john dods did to his spitfire engine car, it was sold last year
No ear protection 😮
It’s even more impressive with the exhaust manifolds on🤓
Is there another part to this?
The Merlin and Griffon development are unrelated, and do not share a common heritage. The Merlin stems from the Kestrel. Griffon from the Buzzard and the 'R'.
You forgot the best part. The "R" at one time held all three - the LAND speed record, the AIR speed record, and the WATER speed record ! "What an extraordinary series of engines!" you say . . . I say "nope - IT WAS THE EXACT SAME SINGLE ENGINE USED FOR ALL THREE !!!"
The Griffon makes the ground shake 🫨 it’s an incredible sounding engine
Merlins and Meteors are the same besides usage correct?
@Diesel257 yes but had different parameters like less horsepower, higher torque and of course no supercharger, reduction gear and other related parts. In other words a de-rated and much simplified Merlin...
@@Diesel257 Similiar not the same, Meteor used rejected Merlin parts without a supercharger, and many were cast iron rather than aluminum !!! !
And we miss old Fred the chimney man
Getting that thing hot without an exhaust manifold is a great way to warp the hell out of valves there fellows.
We supply fixings to the aircraft and marine industry. A complete fixing kit, nuts, bolts,washers in stainless and titanium we manufacture for the Merlin V12.
We also manufacture cnc oil control rings to reduce this engines trait for burning oil..
Love their accents
5 month later - is it running perfectly now? What are you doing with the engine? 😉
Great content & video , but no need that music , general background sounds are better. Thank you 🙏🏻.
How about a cup of tea 🍵
There's always time for a cup of tea 😃
if this is the Griffon... imagine what the Crecy would have been like?
HELL YEAH!! 😁
where can I buy one of those engines?
I loved the big aero engines in a pulling tractor, they made the other types boring in comparison 🐾✌️🇺🇸
Love ❤️ both the Merlin & Griffon Engines .
Especially the Counter Rotation of the Bigger Griffon . 👌
From my Recollection the Merlin ended up with 2050 hp & the Griffon 2350 hp .
Wouldn't it be Awesome 2 go 2 Cosworth Engineering in the UK & kindly ask them 2 build a Billet Version & give it more Grunt 😀
Two propellers rotating in opposite directions on the same axis are called contrarotating or coaxial propellers. Two separate propellers turning opposite directions on separate axes, such in a typical twin-engine airplane, are counterrotating propellers.
Yes the 130 series had 2030hp
Do you remember these motors in unlimited hydroplanes back in the 60s & 70s? How they beefed them up, the Merlin had about 3000 HP & the Griffin had about 4000 HP, just incredible!👍✌️
I would love to implement fuel injection onto an engine like this. I feel like they could make way more power with proper fueling.
No no no that was discussed in WW2 and the fact the fuel stays cooler from a Carbie thus being denser and allowing more power was the reason R/R stayed with Carburettors
@jacktattis correct - and the cooling fuel going thru thr super chargers-
A few random piece of information.
The Griffon had three different firing orders, two in the mark one and the third for all the others marks. All the other R-R V12s from the first Eagle to the Merlin had the same firing order (apart from the ones that turned in the opposite direction and they were the reverse).
I have been told that the Shackleton crews did not like the engine's sound.
The 1939 Griffon was a clean sheet of paper design and apart from bore and store had nothing to do with the 1933 Griffon, the R engine , or the Buzzard.
I am unaware of any production Motor Torpedo Boat or Motor Gun Boat that used the Merlin or Griffon engines. Most allied MTBs MGBs ran Packard marine V12s, this engine is not related to the Packard licence-built R-R Merlins in any way apart from them both being 60 degree V12s. There were other engines, including those from Scott Hall.
Rolls-Royce's last piston aero engine was the Eagle22, a H-24 (inspired by the Napier Sabre H-24), it did not see large-scale production.
The Griffon did not produce enough extra power to justify the increase in capacity over the Merlin. It was a better-designed, more robust engine, but the combustion chamber of the Merlin was too large for good combustion and the Griffon's was even larger.
robertnicholson and someone else knows the truth about the PACKARD M2500 PT Boat engines. PACKARDS own design from the 1930's 2500 cu in 43 L of supercharged V12. 14,000 of them made and US Navy and the Brits used them in their MTB and MGB and air sea rescue. it was that enging that brought RR to PACKARD to have PACKARD build the merlin/ PACKARD was delivering them to the US NAvy in 1938 !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 It was an interesting engine, but a bit of a throwback to the Packard co-designed Liberty aero engine, in that it had individual fabricated water-cooled cylinders, 6 attached to each head (possibly screwed in), this assembly was then bolted to the crankcase. It started to get a bit finicky as they increased the boost, etc. to get more power out of it. They were a big, heavy, engine, it must not have been much fun to get one out of the boat in the makeshift bases that they often operated from, especially, in the Pacific.
In a correction to my previous post, apparently, there were about 60-70 marinized Merlins built before the war, and then the decision was made to route all Merlin production into aircraft, I assume because the Packard M2500 series already existed and was capable of doing the job. I do not know whether these Merlin engines were ever installed into boats or whether they were returned to aero use. An interesting side story.
Originally, R-R went to Ford USA for the contract, Ford was interested, but then Henry Ford changed his mind and decided to not build war equipment for foreign powers, although this did not stop Ford in Britain from building Merlins, which they did extremely well. Ford built the plant in about 6 months (despite being bombed) and started production about a month before Packard. Stanley Hooker in his book "Not Much of an Engineer" wrote that he thought the Ford-UK built Merlins were the best.
Apparently, the drawings that Packard worked off of when production planning started were obtained from Ford USA. It was a bit of a shock for the Packard engineers when the R-R engineers arrived from England with proper up-to-date production drawings and asked Packard whether they wanted to start with the three-piece engine (one piece head and cylinder bank) or the five-piece engine with separate heads.
So much for the no exhaust manifold bent valve theory
My dream engine I would love one but I bey they are not cheap!
Since they don't bother with ear protection, it must be as quiet as a Silver Cloud at idle ??
Put That Rolls-Royce V12 Mk58 Griffon engine in a Plane ?
Don't you risk warping exhaust valves with no exhaust stacks, even shorties?
Sooooo the beast is amazing car......is this the same motor?? I know the beast doesn't have a supercharger tho
I want this in my car
I want it in my hydroplane!👍✌️
what is the soundtrack used in the video ? love it
What's the sound with headers
then someone said "shall we stick it in the MK9"
and the rest was history.
Rolls-Royce Customer: "Can I get something bigger than a Merlin?"
Rolls-Royce: "How much bigger?"
Customer: "Yes."
Terrible loud music guys.
I'd love to have this in a sand blaster
I have one of those in my motorcycle
hello gentlemen, it came in my hands a Rolls Royce Griffon in immaculate condition, the engine is rotating easily I can say.
i need to install the magneto, connect the petrol, and oil hoses, but I don't have any experience n these engines.
i am wondering if any one of you could help me with some information.
i am willing to pay the cost, even if someone could come to Cyprus and help me to start this engine.
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