Billy owns the dali epicon 2 speakers, Hegel H190 integrated amplifier, Klipsch 12inch 200W subwoofer, and custom made cables. He wants to take his system to next level and wants to know where and what he should upgrade. his priority is as follows: 1. Improve streaming/dac 2. Better cables 3. better Subwoofer If you want to support the channel + hifi consulting (disclaimer: 45 minutes HiFi consulting; tackling system-specific advice chat only available for "hifi consulting tier") : www.patreon.com/NBTS
The DAC in the H190 is good but not great. The amp section is very good though. Recommending PS Audio Directstream or perhaps something like Auralic or Lumin. You can still use the H190 for convenient background streaming and then a better combo streamer/DAC running into the h190 for serious listening. Thanks for sharing the Zen Mini m3 Jay! Will need to check that out myself.
Hey Jay. I'm interested in these Coppercolour cables you have mentioned. Can you tell which ones you went for (RCA, power) as there are so many to choose from? I like you, are looking for a neutral cable.
Jay, I just wanted to chime in and tell you that the concept for this video was incredible! I was so interested in this "consultation" style video. I'm considering also donating for this service. This is something that's actually a valuable service to receive while also supporting you and your work. You are in such a unique circumstance to have spent meaningful time with so much gear and all at a fairly young age and short time period, and this makes you a very valuable person to weigh in and advise a lot of us on difficult purchasing decisions we may be trying to make. I love you're videos, and even just watching this consultation there was a lot of great information to be had. I REALLY hope you continue to record and upload these in the future. This is something very unique in our HiFi corner of TH-cam! Thanks Jay👍
Thank Joseph. I already got so many people interested in the consultation than I even imagined. Most did not want to be filmed (which is perfectly understandable) but Billy was the first one to say "yes you can film me" and so here we are. - I can't take all the credit, billy had some great questions and was the star of the show
Hope this helps... The Innuos Zen has a double linear power supply built into the larger unit size (than the Zen Mini). The mini's additional linear power supply is only a single. Make sure you get the Mk3 units as have custom built mother boards (specifically designed for the individual models) and was a big jump in performance. I have the Zenith currently (with triple linear supply and solid state drive). I have used all and love them. Enjoy. Ps I also have a REL sub. If you do upgrade make sure you connect high level from the Speaker outputs. This ensures the timing of the impulse matches that of the main speakers. You will not be disappointed. Later you get another one for left and right channels. Bliss.
I really liked this, and Billy, your speakers are fantastic, very well liked in Scandinavia and Europe, one of the best 2 way on the market and they can play all kind of music, will go well with a Rel too. Ohh and speaker design has very little to do with money, but more to do with knowledge and Dali knows how to design speakers, I have heard a lot of expensive speakers 2 way and full range, for my room 2 way works best, the tone, decay and voices sound sublime, if needed I can get a sub to get the very low tones, but that can wait for now.
Well I'd say you have the streamer separately to the DAC or least the facility to bypass tbe DAC otherwise the machine comes obsolete lot of money to pay as well
I am very happy with my Hegel h190 amp sound is detailed and a very good bass control, Dac is great for an integrated driving my b&w 683 s2 good match as far is i can hear, But i think i need to upgrade speakers to do the Hegel justice, great video, and an impressive setup
I actually own the Hegel HD30 DAC and while it does sound good, for me at least I don't think it is worth it. In many ways I prefer the (cheaper) chord hugo 2 DAC which I also own . Because of the extra air and sense of space. Let's not forget that the HD30 is quite an old DAC (I'm a bit of a format nerd at least, and I like higher sample rates support for some reason). My intuition would be thus that the Denafrips DACs would be prefered instead of the HD30 by many . What the Hegel has IMO going for it is that it's on the warm side (as supposedly Denafrips are too) and also sounds really clear (the instruments seem to have precise limits). Since it's been on the marked for a while, there might be discounts to be had (I got mine for under $3k , for example)
Billy, I suggest that you put the dCS Bartók DAC / streamer on your list of gear to research. It is an expensive piece of kit but I have found that it is worth the investment in my system. I can attest that what you read in the online reviews is true. I am very happy with mine.
Right on. The Bartok is one of my ultimate gear dreams. Locally it ends up retailing for 2X the USA price due to taxes and dealer margin. I try not to think much about it because it makes me sad.
Virgilio, Jay, thanks a lot for sharing your session with us, it was quite an interesting listen! I'd love to hear how Dalis sound, as my Kef R300 are probably not my cup of tea in the end. Virgilio, regarding tube preamps, you could buy a used Schiit Saga and try it with your Hegel just for fun. For around $200. Some of good tubes are Tung-Sol ($20) and Psvane ($50). I use Psvane with Kefs. Even if you have different voltage than in US it is still possible with minimum soldering (see the jumpers on the board). Just be careful and test it outside of your system :-) The preamp is very clean, and can be a demo version of what you can get with tube preamps. Overall it add slight tube coloration. I actually use one with my integrated (Schiit Ragnarok 2) as simply a tube buffer (volume maxed out on the Saga). It's not as bad as it may seem. Saga utilises relay volume control, so no sound degradation because of the volume pot. Thinking on getting Freya+ and separates (not necessarily Schiit). Other fun tube buffer option can be iFi iTube 2 when you go with separate DAC. Didn't hear this but it's well regarded by Zero Fidelity. Try R2R DAC. It's really a different experience. I have Schiit Gungnir Multibit. But at the moment I'd suggest to start with Bifrost 2 and probably upgrade to Yggdrasil if you like it and feel that you need an upgrade. It doesn't have to be Schiit, there are different options, like Denafrips suggested by Jay. I didn't hear Denafrips, but from a lot of feedback from the internet, I can say that they have slightly different strong points. For instance, Audiophiliac said that Schiit has better microdynamics, and Denafrips is better in something else... And feed the DAC from coax/aes, not usb ;-) Dirt cheap but really good option of a streamer is Pi2AES. Search for an article on sbaf. It can be not as convenient as highly prices streamers, but the sound is waaaaay beyond it's price point. Cheers!
I was very pleasantly surprised by the Dali Epicon 2s. Small size, huge sound, detailed but forgiving. Instruments like piano, guitars, and human voice sound like if you are in front of the performer. I think some people call it organic. I played piano for many years so I know very well how they sound like. The Dalis transport me to that experience, I can even listen to the piano felt. You can listen to the Epicons for hours without fatigue. The beauty of the speaker, the sound and the build quality are absolutely high end. A totally different level above the popular choices like Kef R3. I have Kef Reference 4 towers and I prefer to listen to music through the Epicons.
Any system upgrade should start with how do i use my sytem, what percent is movies,perhaps avr type usage, how much music, how much steamed content like youtube. I love your concept of building or upgrading a system, with detailed recommendations. Not a fan of integrated stuff, since any upgrades often force us to start over, replacing the integrated.
Agreed. 70% will be streaming music, 30% TH-cam, etc. This is why streaming/dac pieces were key to me. I also agree about the integrated amp, its not a bad compromise at all, but will probably wait a couple of years before going separates.
Awesome video Jay. Love this new format. Seriously interesting content which we can all relate to! On the Innuos side i'd say it is a Music server first, streamer second.
Jay I have a REL Sub and Also a Denafrips Terminator DAC I did have Anticables went with Chinese cables NOW BLUE JEANS CABLES Excellent BLUE JEANS ONLY MAKE CABLES reasonable price and to my ear better than The Chinese and Anticables and cheaper than both
Jay, do you think the Crown XLS 2502 or the XTZ Edge A2-300 have sufficient power and musicality to work with either a Magnepan .7 or Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL?
Anyone know if going from the triangle Bro3s to the Buchardt S400s would be a big upgrade? They have a similar sound signature by the reviews I've read and seen, but I'm wondering if it would be a big enough upgrade to warrant the purchase
Hegel H190 can clearly connect to a preamp...you're Hegel rep wouldn't be proud. Oh, and a balanced (XLR) cable's purpose is common mode rejection, not their locking function (proof; locking RCAs). The longer the interconnect the more RFI (noise) it can pick up (antenna), and mic cables (XLR) are super long hence their balanced design.
I'd advise you to watch again... I did not say any of things you mentioned. 1. I never said hegel cant use pre-amps, I just don't advise going through two pre-amps 2. Cable... I said nothing about locking function + I said basically what you just said ...
@@Jayiyagi K so you gotta be effing with me right? He asked about ADDING preamp to Hegel, you said two preamps. HOME THEATRE BYPASS dude. He also asked why XLR. You said studios use them due to reliability; not locking? You mind time stamping where you stated anything about the one and only advantage to balanced cables? This was too weird for me brah
For 1/6 of the crazy priced ps audio dac, i suggest the $1000 aries 2 dac. Mytec dac is expensive but way better than the ps audio dac which is ,nonetheless good.
Yeap, it is very long because it is a 45min consultation. But it seems people do get something out of it as I imagined. You don't have to watch it, nobody is forcing you & I completely agree, some may want it to be a private thing, to be very clear; it can be a private consultation, I always ask if it's okay to film and upload or not. Rock on !
![[Live] : ONE 168 วันนี้!! "โจนาธาน vs ซุปเปอร์เล็ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jIN65KgJsI/mqdefault.jpg)
Billy owns the dali epicon 2 speakers, Hegel H190 integrated amplifier, Klipsch 12inch 200W subwoofer, and custom made cables. He wants to take his system to next level and wants to know where and what he should upgrade.
his priority is as follows:
1. Improve streaming/dac
2. Better cables
3. better Subwoofer
If you want to support the channel + hifi consulting (disclaimer: 45 minutes HiFi consulting; tackling system-specific advice chat only available for "hifi consulting tier")
: www.patreon.com/NBTS
The DAC in the H190 is good but not great. The amp section is very good though. Recommending PS Audio Directstream or perhaps something like Auralic or Lumin. You can still use the H190 for convenient background streaming and then a better combo streamer/DAC running into the h190 for serious listening. Thanks for sharing the Zen Mini m3 Jay! Will need to check that out myself.
@@shahidyt it is in the description of each speaker review.
👏👏👌👌👍👍💪💪Very nice interview and advice J I think you really helped that guy out it's really helped everybody out once again excellent advice👌👌👍👍👏👏
Hey Jay. I'm interested in these Coppercolour cables you have mentioned. Can you tell which ones you went for (RCA, power) as there are so many to choose from? I like you, are looking for a neutral cable.
@@jamesdwright I'm interested in those cables. Have you found a place to purchase?
This has been valuable and entertaining. Thank you, Jay. Even more -- thank you, Billy, for giving permission to share this with the rest of us.
Jay, I just wanted to chime in and tell you that the concept for this video was incredible! I was so interested in this "consultation" style video. I'm considering also donating for this service. This is something that's actually a valuable service to receive while also supporting you and your work. You are in such a unique circumstance to have spent meaningful time with so much gear and all at a fairly young age and short time period, and this makes you a very valuable person to weigh in and advise a lot of us on difficult purchasing decisions we may be trying to make. I love you're videos, and even just watching this consultation there was a lot of great information to be had. I REALLY hope you continue to record and upload these in the future. This is something very unique in our HiFi corner of TH-cam! Thanks Jay👍
Thank Joseph. I already got so many people interested in the consultation than I even imagined. Most did not want to be filmed (which is perfectly understandable) but Billy was the first one to say "yes you can film me" and so here we are. - I can't take all the credit, billy had some great questions and was the star of the show
This is really good. I can imagine that these kinds of conversations would help a lot of us to learn more about Hifi. Thank you!
Jay has a very good knowledge about many recent pieces of equipment, although still youngish and learning. Great video concept.
What a great idea this "consulting session" is! Well done Jay. Very enjoyable video!
I would recommend upgrading to a REL subwoofer, absolutely!
Hope this helps... The Innuos Zen has a double linear power supply built into the larger unit size (than the Zen Mini). The mini's additional linear power supply is only a single. Make sure you get the Mk3 units as have custom built mother boards (specifically designed for the individual models) and was a big jump in performance. I have the Zenith currently (with triple linear supply and solid state drive). I have used all and love them. Enjoy. Ps I also have a REL sub. If you do upgrade make sure you connect high level from the Speaker outputs. This ensures the timing of the impulse matches that of the main speakers. You will not be disappointed. Later you get another one for left and right channels. Bliss.
I really liked this, and Billy, your speakers are fantastic, very well liked in Scandinavia and Europe, one of the best 2 way on the market and they can play all kind of music, will go well with a Rel too.
Ohh and speaker design has very little to do with money, but more to do with knowledge and Dali knows how to design speakers, I have heard a lot of expensive speakers 2 way and full range, for my room 2 way works best, the tone, decay and voices sound sublime, if needed I can get a sub to get the very low tones, but that can wait for now.
What a great informational video!
Well I'd say you have the streamer separately to the DAC or least the facility to bypass tbe DAC otherwise the machine comes obsolete lot of money to pay as well
I am very happy with my Hegel h190 amp sound is detailed and a very good bass control,
Dac is great for an integrated driving my b&w 683 s2 good match as far is i can hear, But i think i need to upgrade speakers to do the Hegel justice, great video, and an impressive setup
I have the same exact combination of integrated and speakers. What speakers are you considering?
aobscura b&w 702 s2 signature, and maybe even try another brand like dynaudio evoke 50
I actually own the Hegel HD30 DAC and while it does sound good, for me at least I don't think it is worth it. In many ways I prefer the (cheaper) chord hugo 2 DAC which I also own . Because of the extra air and sense of space. Let's not forget that the HD30 is quite an old DAC (I'm a bit of a format nerd at least, and I like higher sample rates support for some reason).
My intuition would be thus that the Denafrips DACs would be prefered instead of the HD30 by many .
What the Hegel has IMO going for it is that it's on the warm side (as supposedly Denafrips are too) and also sounds really clear (the instruments seem to have precise limits). Since it's been on the marked for a while, there might be discounts to be had (I got mine for under $3k , for example)
Billy, I suggest that you put the dCS Bartók DAC / streamer on your list of gear to research. It is an expensive piece of kit but I have found that it is worth the investment in my system. I can attest that what you read in the online reviews is true. I am very happy with mine.
Right on. The Bartok is one of my ultimate gear dreams. Locally it ends up retailing for 2X the USA price due to taxes and dealer margin. I try not to think much about it because it makes me sad.
This is awesome Jay what a great video you truly luv what your doing. Keep em coming.
Virgilio, Jay, thanks a lot for sharing your session with us, it was quite an interesting listen! I'd love to hear how Dalis sound, as my Kef R300 are probably not my cup of tea in the end.
Virgilio, regarding tube preamps, you could buy a used Schiit Saga and try it with your Hegel just for fun. For around $200. Some of good tubes are Tung-Sol ($20) and Psvane ($50). I use Psvane with Kefs. Even if you have different voltage than in US it is still possible with minimum soldering (see the jumpers on the board). Just be careful and test it outside of your system :-) The preamp is very clean, and can be a demo version of what you can get with tube preamps. Overall it add slight tube coloration. I actually use one with my integrated (Schiit Ragnarok 2) as simply a tube buffer (volume maxed out on the Saga). It's not as bad as it may seem. Saga utilises relay volume control, so no sound degradation because of the volume pot. Thinking on getting Freya+ and separates (not necessarily Schiit). Other fun tube buffer option can be iFi iTube 2 when you go with separate DAC. Didn't hear this but it's well regarded by Zero Fidelity.
Try R2R DAC. It's really a different experience. I have Schiit Gungnir Multibit. But at the moment I'd suggest to start with Bifrost 2 and probably upgrade to Yggdrasil if you like it and feel that you need an upgrade. It doesn't have to be Schiit, there are different options, like Denafrips suggested by Jay. I didn't hear Denafrips, but from a lot of feedback from the internet, I can say that they have slightly different strong points. For instance, Audiophiliac said that Schiit has better microdynamics, and Denafrips is better in something else... And feed the DAC from coax/aes, not usb ;-)
Dirt cheap but really good option of a streamer is Pi2AES. Search for an article on sbaf. It can be not as convenient as highly prices streamers, but the sound is waaaaay beyond it's price point. Cheers!
I was very pleasantly surprised by the Dali Epicon 2s. Small size, huge sound, detailed but forgiving. Instruments like piano, guitars, and human voice sound like if you are in front of the performer. I think some people call it organic. I played piano for many years so I know very well how they sound like. The Dalis transport me to that experience, I can even listen to the piano felt. You can listen to the Epicons for hours without fatigue. The beauty of the speaker, the sound and the build quality are absolutely high end. A totally different level above the popular choices like Kef R3. I have Kef Reference 4 towers and I prefer to listen to music through the Epicons.
Any system upgrade should start with how do i use my sytem, what percent is movies,perhaps avr type usage, how much music, how much steamed content like youtube. I love your concept of building or upgrading a system, with detailed recommendations. Not a fan of integrated stuff, since any upgrades often force us to start over, replacing the integrated.
Agreed. 70% will be streaming music, 30% TH-cam, etc. This is why streaming/dac pieces were key to me. I also agree about the integrated amp, its not a bad compromise at all, but will probably wait a couple of years before going separates.
Awesome video Jay. Love this new format. Seriously interesting content which we can all relate to! On the Innuos side i'd say it is a Music server first, streamer second.
Jay I think you confused the price of the zen with the zenith !!
I have a zen 3 I would recommend the zenith if he can afford it
Morrow SP2 Speaker Cable Pair - 84 SSI Wires $189 at 2 meters and they always have sales around 45-55% off
I learn a lot... Thanks Jay.. I know now about innuos..
What about adding a power amp and using the Hegel as a preamp?
Jay I have a REL Sub and Also a Denafrips Terminator DAC I did have Anticables went with Chinese cables NOW BLUE JEANS CABLES Excellent BLUE JEANS ONLY MAKE CABLES reasonable price and to my ear better than The Chinese and Anticables and cheaper than both
rca vs xlr; If your in's and out's are running true balanced (differential), the case of rca vs xlr is a bit of a different question.
I have a Roku box. Its a streaming device.
Gotta disagree on the subs... GR research makes servo subs I think can beat REL ...just my opinion
Link?
Hi jay. I love this format. Would you recommend the same kit for the Hegel 120? My budget would be around £1500 for streamer and dac.
What is the name of the Chinese cable you were talking about? I want to get some.
www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/copper-colour-audiophile-cable-cc-cords-c-52?zenid=555cc7c5ac2d71ef0a203fed9110d5b4
Jay, do you think the Crown XLS 2502 or the XTZ Edge A2-300 have sufficient power and musicality to work with either a Magnepan .7 or Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL?
Link to the Chinese cables you recommended plz!
www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/copper-colour-audiophile-cable-cc-cords-c-52?zenid=555cc7c5ac2d71ef0a203fed9110d5b4
How about...? Deep Meditation/Qigong to greatly improve your psychoacoustics? :-)
Anyone know if going from the triangle Bro3s to the Buchardt S400s would be a big upgrade? They have a similar sound signature by the reviews I've read and seen, but I'm wondering if it would be a big enough upgrade to warrant the purchase
Go to HI FI SUMMIT.
Problem with copper is that it oxidizes
Is the Innuos Mk3 can stream from youtube also?
Dali epicon 2 bookshelf speakers are list price of $4000 each, $8k a pair.
Got them pristine, original packing, including the expensive pedestals, for about half. I was really really lucky a friend helped me.
8000 bucks for a pair of bookshelves!!! This is why i NEVER buy any European hifi gear....thieving greedy fcks.
They are fantastic speakers.
what is the best streamer that does not have a dac.
can u spell the name of the equipment please
Just buy Tekton Design Moab and Parasound amplification!
I used the Chinese cables FROM CHINA HIFI but BLUE JEANS CABLES are BETTER and Cheaper
can you show names in print.
Hegel H190 can clearly connect to a preamp...you're Hegel rep wouldn't be proud.
Oh, and a balanced (XLR) cable's purpose is common mode rejection, not their locking function (proof; locking RCAs). The longer the interconnect the more RFI (noise) it can pick up (antenna), and mic cables (XLR) are super long hence their balanced design.
I'd advise you to watch again... I did not say any of things you mentioned.
1. I never said hegel cant use pre-amps, I just don't advise going through two pre-amps
2. Cable... I said nothing about locking function + I said basically what you just said ...
@@Jayiyagi K so you gotta be effing with me right? He asked about ADDING preamp to Hegel, you said two preamps. HOME THEATRE BYPASS dude. He also asked why XLR. You said studios use them due to reliability; not locking? You mind time stamping where you stated anything about the one and only advantage to balanced cables? This was too weird for me brah
Get a ps audio direct stream DAC
For 1/6 of the crazy priced ps audio dac, i suggest the $1000 aries 2 dac. Mytec dac is expensive but way better than the ps audio dac which is ,nonetheless good.
@@file1man that's definietely a better option. The PS audio dac also measures worse than most 100€ DACs which is just ridiculous
Seemingless
Way too long. Should be a private consultation.
Yeap, it is very long because it is a 45min consultation. But it seems people do get something out of it as I imagined. You don't have to watch it, nobody is forcing you & I completely agree, some may want it to be a private thing, to be very clear;
it can be a private consultation, I always ask if it's okay to film and upload or not. Rock on !