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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
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In this video I dogfight BFM my friend who is a real-World NATO fighter pilot. F-16 Vs MiG-29 duel.
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#dcsworld #dcs #dogfight #mig29 #forcefeedbackjoystick
For those criticising the real fighter pilot:
Firstly, he is not an F-16 pilot, secondly I think A LOT of people have a vast misunderstanding of DCS Vs Reality for a real fighter pilot. It's a game - good DCS BFM players will often (if not always) beat real fighter pilots in DCS on a computer. If you were to put the same two people into real jets the outcome would be reversed for many reasons - different visual cues, G forces, spacial orientation ect.
Then there's obviously the fact that when you fly a completely different aircraft at work and in DCS you simply can't be proficient at it! You will make mistakes like anybody else, real fighter pilot or not. In real life you don't go from an Su-27 into a Typhoon and start to dominate like you did in your "own" jet. These DCS fights are a bit of fun for both of us and to try different things so to start judging someone's real life fighter pilot abilities based off a fun dogfight in DCS is beyond ridiculous.
Just a side-note: a couple of years ago DARPA developed the best dogfighter AI they could think of and put it up against a real fighter pilot and a DCS player that won some online dofighting competitions. The real fighter pilot lost against the AI, the DCS player won. Just food for thought.
Thanks for the insights, especially interesting that last bit with the DARPA AI!
Also, despite being a pilot with no-name, he can't just show real BFM tactics in any way here, I'm sure he'd get in trouble no matter what.. so I am curious how that works for him, if he's sort of thinking actively about what not to do/show during the dogfight here, or if he's just winging it, if that makes sense.
Cheers!
@@KevinS47 I don't think there's anything classified in BFM generally. It's all open source and the same books used by the military to teach BFM are available to the general public. At least in terms of pure kinematics. With regards to ACM and BVR of course it gets more classified. But 1v1 BFM is not secret, just some simple physics. But of course all jets have strengths and weaknesses so you can't employ the same tactics in an F-16 as you can in a Mirage 2000 obviously, as an example, especially depending on which jet you are fighting. So you can't judge on how good say a real Mirage 2000 pilot is when you put him in an F-15 for the first time. I think this is a simple concept so many in the comments just don't seem to grasp.
yeah I think mostly because of the fact that DCS players pull constantly 9gs like it's nothing
@@CommandT I actually did not know that! I would have thought BFM would also be classified stuff (though not as much as BVR of course). And I do get what you are saying, at the end this stuff isn't all that complicated, so people can figure this out pretty much on their own if they put the time and effort to try and understand these things; however, it just feels different if a real fighter pilot shows you these tactics and dogfight styles (based off of real life), especially since what you learn and perfect in a sim isn't exactly translatable to real life if you get what I mean.
And also, yeah, he isn't an F16C pilot, so it probably wouldn't matter either way in this video.
@@michelestefanini5466 Also something to think about, right!
Imagine seeing that dogfight from the ground
Would be cool for sure!
I have seen some mock fights years back between BAE Hawks cool thing even from distance.
Honestly the scariest, and ergo most fun fights to watch are those where the real fighter pilot takes a round or two to figure things out, then just goes balls to the wall all out and absolutely stomps the shit out of the opposition. It's wild to see them adjust SO quickly and efficiently despite never flying the platforms in game, or just never flying DCS in general.
The Academy picks the pilots.
@@anul6801 .....What does that even mean?
@@FEAR_Actual People who become pilots are hand picked for their hardware. Reaction time, multi tasking abilities etc. Thats why a pilot can learn and dominate in a game. It requires the same kind of attributes after all. In sports they call it "Sports IQ" etc. Pilots have very high sports iq to begin with. Hockey IQ and pilot IQ are very similar for example. in highly recommend you to look into the US intelligym program which has fightr pilot roots for their younghockey players. Have a nice day!
@@FEAR_Actual It means to be a fighter pilot you have to have a rough IQ of ~120 or higher, exceptional eye sight, incredibly reflexes and an overall general ability to process new information at incredibly fast speeds. The academy picks the pilot, meaning pilots are only ever selected if they're so far above average as to be worth placing them in a jet that costs as much as Tom Cruise's mansion.
@@CrispyChristieMAC That's not true. There is not and never has been a strict 120 IQ threshold. The only thing that's extremely important here that could jeopardize a pilot's career is eyesight.But ability to quicklearn is a must nowadays almost in anything
Cool to see you dogfighting! Superb lift vector placement on your part, really like how you stiff armed the F-16 into a 1-circle.
Thanks!! 🙏
I think, the real pilot, adjusted things, and, very sure, played with you.
He did ONE attempt to attack. Hit.
you did more than 3. No hit. not even close.
he was close
I find really amazing that, in every real fighter pilot playing DCS video, they can deny every shot opportunity from the enemy, capitalize on the mistake and end the fight QUICK. A real show of skill!!
8mn is nowhere quick 😅
@@JoJo-vm8vk i was talking about after he got the upperhand, and 8 min is quick when you're defensive
Hmmm, I definitely don't think it's always the case with real fighter pilots in DCS!
@@CommandT I might have exagerated with "every", but is common
Subscribed.
Reasons :
No "like and subscribe" right in the beginning of the video.
No "fake calls" I mean no clickbait.
those people that criticise fighter pilots based on this very specific situation are just kids..... they see one situation and think they know it all. In the real world you have so many forces acting on you. You die in the real world, the stress and reality is different...
in a game, there is no fear of death, no actual g-forces and im pretty sure the fighter pilot didnt use his full skill and just toyed along. after all, its a game and not a life-death matter
Great video! I enjoyed watching both of you play and have fun with it. What you said is true. It's similar to what F1 driver Max Verstappen mentioned about playing F1 simulators with sim players. He said he learns a lot from sim players who can push the limits without any risk since they can respawn anytime. However, he also noted that while there's a lot to learn from sim players, real pilots and F1 drivers have a more realistic perspective that sim players lack.
Exactly!
4:18 Classic "target fixation" made you overshoot there. Viper roll rate helped him, but still that was a classic "target fixation" from your side. What you should've done there is: Manage closure rate, preserve the range, stay in CZ and ONLY then think with your gun.
Same example in 6:10. You want to kill him fast - but you ended up overshooting in close, instead - look for LAG circle entry and dominate position first - the end result would be multiple firing solutions instead of just 1 snap shot.
Fight for position first as it will benefits you in a long run
why did you put target fixation in quotation marks twice lol
I never claimed to be the best fighter pilot. I'm sure I could have done a lot of things better :)
what is CZ?
@@mangosuppe8706 Czechoslovakia.
Amazing show of pilot-ship on both sides.
I really like your channel, just came across you, I look forward to seeing more
Thanks! More coming soon! 👌
This was truly awesome to watch 2 very proficient pilots using skills to learn and adapt to there opposition like a game of chess try get gain the upper hand. great content
that intro was beautiful. Whole fight like this would please. You topped it with this kind of visual. Also the rest was perfect but ...
I have NEVER seen anyone jink that aggressively in DCS before. That more than anything convinces me he’s the real deal.
It almost looks like dancing. Theres something beautiful about how the flight paths are mirrored
It’s a ballet for sure! A ballet with guns
Watching around 4:15 where the F-16 starts dancing out of the crosshairs was impressive. I don't know anything about dogfighting but that was really cool.
Great video & great dogfight. That F16 is amazing! I didn't know it could do some of those manoeuvres. Well done to your friend but kudos to you for staying in there for so long.
Thanks!! 🙏
Having commentary from your friend would be nice as well
Maybe one day!
Круто было смотреть на это, хоть и не понимаю английского.))
📌 FFBeast Full Force Feedback Stick: ffbeast.github.io/docs/en/joystick.html
Great video man, i dont know why there are so many negative people in the comments saying stuff that just isnt true, keep it up!
Thanks! 🙏
wow man that rolling he did was spectacular. never seen anything like it
Dude that was sick! I love it!
Great to hear!
Very Cool and Great Fight! Thanks for the entertainment! Best Regards and Best Wishes!
Glad you enjoyed :)
Of course the factor can't be simulated is the endurance of each pilot. In a neutral case like this whoever is in better shape is probably going to prevail.
awesome opsec gotta say good job unknown
That was a really fun commercial to watch
4:10 That was just beautiful from the F-16.
Got a beast now myself. Love it so far.
Now only the lack of effects hold it back. But AFAIK many effects are in the works.
But what a dogfight! One chance, and hit... Nice vídeo!
Thanks!! 🙏
Nice video bro!
Thanks!!
I learned a couple things watching this
That's like saying a COD player thinks he is shooting a real weapon lol
Yep
You missed your best opportunity at 4:07. The F-16 was almost inside your crosshair, but afterward you failed to manage your closure rate, and let the F-16 started to turn the table to force you into a rolling scissor. At 6:07, which was you second best opportunity. At this situation, you had plenty of time and could have used the vertical scan to lock to target for a better aim, and you also failed to manage your closure rate again and were forced into a rolling sissor. I think in the second situation, you could have used lag pursuit to stay behind the F-16 for a more stable aim instead of going for a high line-of-sight rate shot
Yeah I agree about the 6:07, partly disagree about the 4:07 :)
This is my first time on a channel. I beg your indulgence. You are an excellent examination simulation. Can we go back to the introduction of the jet era? Like the F9F-PantherJet and an F86 SabreJets of the famous iconic pilots that flew them during the Korean. Of the likes of Neil Armstrong, Adrain "Buzz"Aldrin, Ted Williams, and John Glenn.
We don't have the F9F in DCS. And I don't have the Sabre, sorry! I am awaiting IL2 Korea though :)
Great dogfighting and really tense to watch.
Can I just say, I'm so glad the real pilot won over some guy on TH-cam. It gives me more confidence in the US military 😂😂😂
You know that a real fighter pilot lost against the best DARPA AI in a dogfight whilst a DCS player won?
Real life is different. Guys who practice BFM in DCS all day will most likely win against seasoned fighter pilots in the simulator. Real life is a different story. Not to mention that real fighter pilots need to do a lot more than just be good at BFM.
All I’m saying is there will be nothing surprising in a DCS player beating a real fighter pilot on a computer.
@@CommandT wow, I didn't know that!
It would be interesting to see the roles reversed... DCS vs real pilot in real life 😂
Man, the pilot was pulling off some crazy maneuvers and people discredit his profession just because he didn't demolish you outright?
Exactly that
That was a really great fight.
I will say tho you're not dependent on the HMD in the Viper in this game as implied in the video. Eagle Dynamics has done a great job of having the jet "talk" to you in ways that aren't really realistic but don't break immersion either. All you need is a good pair of headphones for that.
I see, fair point!
Great Video. They are both great aircraft! Looks forward to more battles. Got to be hard for a real world pilot to adapt to no Gs and feel when flying BFM. 😂❤
Thanks! Yeah I think most people in the comments don't seem to realise that vast differences for a real fighter pilot to be fighting in real life and on a computer!
I always felt the MiG29 was a cheat aircraft for dogfights in DCS due to its FC3 flight model shenanigans.
It has a very realistic FM according to ED, and I tend to agree that it feels very real. It's got simplified systems but not a simplified FM.
Have you flown the mig29 in dcs?
@@WigSplitters last time was about 2 years ago.
@@TomP-148 how does it feel like a cheat? The f18 feels cheatey
@@WigSplitters I'm not getting into dude.
What a fight !
I'd be dead in the 2 first minutes 😅
Haha! Yeah it was pretty crazy!
I havent watched a video all the way thru in years. This shit was fantastic. ANOTHER!
that was an amazing fight
Glad you enjoyed!
Love this matchup, I’m liking the quality of your content! I think I’m going to have to make a ff beast, my ffb stick is so weak comparatively!
Don’t be afraid to chop your throttle on the down side of the scissors so you don’t incrementally flush out in front!
Thanks! More dogfights coming soon! 😃
Nice video, subbed.
Question: have you considered adding VPForce FFB mod to your TPR pedals? I have an un-modded set too, and just found out that some folks have done this.
Never heard of this actually! I will investigate 👍
Супер контент. Три картинки в одном окне. Большое спасибо за работу
🤙
I was thinking. With the FF stick, are you able to feel if the plane is about to go into a stall? I arent talking about if the jets have anti stall installed, but more like if you fly like the Spitfire in DCS (Not sure if it is out on it) can you feel that in the stick when the Spitfire is about to enter a stall?
I remember I watched a video about one flying a small prop plane for the first time, or a trainer Spitfire, and the trainer did explain and showed the person how it feels in the stick when it is about to enter stall
This is why I always sucked at these games. The level of mental gymnastics you have to do all the time in a combat to have some chance of survival is too exhausting and no fun at all. It's not just BFM, missiles as well.
Hey dude, just curious, why you are using Mig-29 of Kazakhstan Air Force?:)
Because why not I guess!
Ты все время пытался в него попасть и тем самым ты не дотягивал к нему каждый раз. Нужно было срезать угол атаки дальше,а ты хотел в него попасть. Вторая проблема: ты не видел,когда он намеренно тормозил,что бы тебя пропустить,ты дальше продолжал лететь на форсаже,набирая скорость. Фишка в таких дуэлях в том,что бы быть на шаг впереди противника,и стараться делать зеркально как и он. И не пытаться с низким шансом попасть в противника,лучше пропкстить,срезав угол больше,что бы на следующем проходе или заходе ты смог до него довернуть носом самолета. Дядя,не спеши)
You did really well
Thanks!
I think you should use the Reticle gun sight, which show the center crosshair by pressing the 8 key. The default gun sight does not have crosshair, which makes it hard to aim.
Not possible on snap shots - not enough time! As you can see I do use it when the bandit is within the HUD for any length of time where it’s possible to lock him again
@@CommandT I would like to see you fly a flanker to dogfight a F-16 next time. With below 50% fuel, the flanker absolutly outperforms the F-16 in the horizontal in DCS. The Flanker can out rate the F-16 in terms of sustained turn rate and instantanous turn with less than 50% fuel. You will win next time.
How does the FFB work on the m2000? Thinking of getting an FFB stick.
Works well just like with all jets!
Nicely done. Seems to be the case that with high off-boresite missles and Helmet cuing, rate fighting and energy management maneuvers like hi yo-yos, wing overs, etc, are made moot b/c you don’t need to get behind the enemy to be in a firing position. Instead, firing position is the enemy anywhere in front of your 3-9 wing line. So basically, both pilots are just trying to pull their noses around enough to get the other guy in front of the wingline before the other guy ending up too close to get a shot off.
BUT…I was surprised to see a true BFM (guns only) end up the same way; especially with the viper being such a good rate fighter. I wonder with modern flight control systems and insanely powerful engines if rating around a circle and “energy management” are kind of a thing of the past? Only asking b/c this guy is a Viper pilot and he didn’t seem to want to force you into a rate fight. It’s guns only so extending isn’t an issue. Dunno. I’ve been a cop and lawyer for 24 years so my fighter pilot experience is “limited”. Lol
Thanks! He's not a real F-16 pilot as I had mentioned in the video. He flies a very different fighter jet at work. This is just a bit of fun for him and for me :)
so wait, in the latest update, DCS inproved the F16's FM? if so, how does it's turn rate compare to the F18 as the F18's 2 circle rating ablity was actually better than the F16's before the changes (don't know about now)
It's not in the last update. It was done a little while back, but relatively recent in DCS's history overall. That's what I meant!
I am really surprised that some rear facing weapon hasn’t been designed to deal with dogfights.
There isn't really a clear solution to that doesn't create a ton of drag or a ton of weight, better to avoid the mutually assured destruction situation by being faster and lighter in the first place.
Rear facing weapons sound unsportsmanlike
😅😅😅
Most of RL pilots I've seen lack fundamentals in BFM, especially guns only. Its pretty surprising.
because IRL noone dogfights with guns ever. Lock, beep, missile away, sometimes even from very very afar, like 60km. Frag. Job done.
ngl this was entertaining to watch
Glad you liked it!
Great video!
Thanks!!
Man and this is why you need a joy stick at least because with this kind of dogfighting because everything you need to do needs to be done fast and with keyboard, turning vertically and horizontally is so slow. It’s almost impossible with a keyboard.
Almighty MIG-29? C'mon bro
Amazing video man what was the music you used at the start
Thanks I’ll have to check later 👍
he use the vertical to slow down and then gods G to put hes nose on you
What took your Friend so long ?? just playing with you ?
Nice! GGs guys!
The first second of the dogfight, I mistook the cockpit of the MiG for a Spitfire. They look so damned old!
Ha!
Just curious, and if you can’t answer I understand, but perhaps you can tell us what your friend actually flys?
All I will say is it's none of the fighters we have modelled in DCS at this time :)
@@CommandTeurofighter
Are you playing with vr?
No
Very cool video
Thanks!!
Good stuff.
It's Mr. X.
awesome!:)
why use the Trackir 5 when you can use a vr headset?
This is a very open-ended question. Performance, resolution, image quality, PC specs and performance etc. Maybe one day I'll switch to VR. For now I prefer trackir for the majority of my flying needs in DCS.
@@CommandT oh ok yea the first parts makes sense. well thanks because i wasn't really Shure what i should get
Wait I don't know anything about the game, how does he knew he lodt a part of his tail ? Cause there was no sound, no indicator, nothing
In the little diagram thing in the top left u can see a bullet stream hitting it but i dont know much either bout the game
Respect
Could you make a video on war thunder???
I don’t play WT, sorry
Yes you can, anything else??
How this fight goes irl: mig-29 taxis out of bunker, F-35 flying undetected behind enemy lines takes control of AAM-RAMS on f-16 missile sled flying in friendly airspace, targets mig on the runway and destroys it as they’re doing pre-flight checks
There's no F-35 here :)
that actually made zero sense. An AMRAAM going for a ground target? also the AMRAAM doesn`t have THAT much range to hit a enemy airbase without the launcher (F-16) getting spiked by some SAMS. The most "Real" scenario would be total nuclear war and all the planes never get out of their bunkers
Bro just use your R73 and end the dogfight😂
Ain’t got any 🤣
Name of song at intro please
Can you tell your your friend I said thank you for his service please
*the MiG 29 is a beast in DCS. (In the real world they dont seem to match up to the hype Russia has claimed)
They use the data from real manuals, irl mig29 has better high aoa capabilities than in dcs
it happend to me when i was good cause i got mad and they kicked me
Second Round ?
Coming in a few days 🙂
Is it a GRIPEN pilot? :)
No 🙂
If only the mig 29 preformed lole this in warthunder...😢
Mig does perform quite similarly in wt ive done some rate tests
@@WigSplitters no it doesnt it gets outrated by an F4E
@@kurnass2000 I'm comparing the games, not the planes
Virgin DCS players : f16 vs mig 29
Chad WT players: f16a , f16 ads, f16c Vs mig 29, mig 29 smt, mig 29g
war thunder 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Раз 5 мог сбить ф16..
Но видео не про это))
Ну тогда смотреть было бы не интересно
eh i don't care if you made it up it's an interesting video so i choose to believe you.
Ha, great :)
@@CommandT yeah its really a good video. Hope to see more like it :)
0:30 "He would like to remain anonymous" I have to be honest and say I don't think he is the one to decide if he wants to be anonymous or not 😅
There’s nothing stopping any fighter pilot not being anonymous.
@CommandT Cool didn't know that👍
Bro was expecting loads of likes 💀💀
In real life with two same skilled Pilots in a dog fight the F16 wins just because it is a better jet
I don’t know if you’re just trolling but if you genuinely mean that then I think you have a significant lack of understanding regarding both jets. Silly comment. Depends on a myriad of factors.
@@CommandTwell the radar comparison is no joke if we are talking real life, the Mig 29 is very outdated and has terrible radar, f16’s will have IR missiles launched before the mig29 will even catch them on the radar, that’s why the MIG’s fly so low to the ground
Explain why my comment is silly?
Bundeswehr got Mig 29 from the DDR.
Those cant keep up with Eurofighters and was a bit more effektive than the Tornados.
In 2015 the F 16 Beats the F35 in a dogfight.
Mig 29 Burns fuel like hell. Just Play this Card and and you can Strike the Mig down on its way to the airfield. The Ukraine war will show us the fight sooner or later. Putin sends his F35 more an more, why?
damn
next time use a mig35
why are you basically a ad channel now? half of your videos are just about the force feedback kit
Prob cuz it's just that good to use
@@b0zz1ll4 he has it pinned everywhere thats my problem, he puts it as a main feature for like every one of his vids now which is annoying
@@vincentvoncarnap What do you mean main feature? I mention it briefly here and there. I love my force feedback stick! It adds so much immersion that I want others to know about it! I don't get paid to promote it at all. I even specifically mention that you should just get any FFB stick that you can! Not necessarily the one I use.
It's funny that you get so annoyed by a pinned comment? I'm not sure why it ruins the video experience for you?
@@vincentvoncarnapEver heard about being excited about somthing? I see why he briefly mentioned it. its cause its good he enjoys it and wants others to enjoy it with him
you could have probably won if you used the lock on aiming reticle (idk what its called)
Was going to say the same, no guess work required if you just use the helmet sight to lock for guns
@@Bullet4MyEnemy Yh it’s really easy so idk why he didn’t use it
I did use it. As you can see when there’s enough time to lock the bandit I do it, on snap shots there’s not enough time at all!
"lock on aiming reticle"? I didn't know it, how does it work?
@@CommandT I think you did but probably the commentating made you think you didn’t so I don’t really blame you😂
I used to have several videos like this one on my channels.
My channels got cancelled one by one due to lack of respect for DOUBLE SPEAKING , POLITICAL CORRECTNESS and zero fucks given to the new zionist world order wich has been cancelled by the way.
Funny how it ends.
I like videos like that.
Even on a high end computer , this activity is exhausting but really cool.
Managing the aircraft's "energy" , trimming , using speed brakes , flaps , rudders , is a beautiful art.
From conversations , I know that in REAL LIFE things are brutally intense , exhausting , stressful both mentally and physically.
In this situation , a Real Life Pilot , might have a huge disadvantage in the beginning because they are used to feel the aircraft and the consequences of their inputs in real time .
They do miss that in their first simulation flights.
But as soon as they get the hang of it , our advantages as people who LOVE to fly simulators , start to evaporate real fast.
We LOVE to fly simulators because we know our chances of even getting a ride on a real life Jet Fighter (generic term) are very low , but if the opportunity is manifested...
IF YOU WANT TO TOUCH THE SKY
YOU MUST BE PREPARED TO DIE
you have an awful trigger discipline :D
I can beat you with F16 partner!
I don’t doubt it
Переведи в набор.
U could have not died had u not gone for that last snapshot
Very possible!
@@CommandT but not too probable haha