Some thoughts on how Anakin and other over-tuned pieces like the Onager and Matchstick are causing issues in the game, particularly at the store champs and small regional tournaments.
I don't know where my earlier comment went but your title for this fleet and your experiment is great, appropriate, and makes me laugh. There are many great insights and comments in the comments section. Great video! I appreciate your analysis and I agree with much of it. The potential to triple tap is just crazy. Without the possibility to triple tap you can still have a pseudo-advanced gunnery ship where you can attack twice from the same arc against the same target without giving your opponent an advanced gunnery ship or the issue with bonus points. The potential of two out-of activation attacks that are very consistent just supports your argument of deterring a player (especially if his fleet doesn't have the tools for it) from attacking altogether and hence promoting the incentive of 'not playing the game'. Matchstick costs just 14 points! Rogue Squadron costs 14 points and only gives you the Rogue keyword. Matchstick can (depending upon circumstances) give that keyword to a bunch of squadrons and has two defense tokens! Incredible efficiency. Personally, I am turned off from playing Farmhawks, Onagers, and guess what else, Anakin, because I just feel 'dirty' after playing it. But then again, I personally know people who have quit after Sloane appeared upon the scene. I like how new upgrades and ships introduce something new to game and the strategic puzzle they bring to the game. But, I agree, some pieces can discourage certain fleets and players with limited experience which hampers the game's diverse ways of playing and hampers its ability to grow, which makes me a little sad because I, like you, love this game.
As someone who still really new, I'm surprised Matchstick is just a bubble effect. Even Hera in the Ghost gets a cap of 2 squadrons. And she's paying a lot more for her ability (she does also gain some dice).
Thank you for the great insight! Got to this channel through your entry in the Armada Podcast, which i hear regularly. I would love to see a video about the current state of CIS since it is my favorite faction and it makes me kind of mad, when i compare the rapid reinforcements for the Republic with the RR for the CIS (both RRs btw.). I still love the game and i am happy to go to the World Open Qualifier this year! Best Greetings from Germany! :)
One thing: It consoles me, that at least when you fight against Anakin Commander, you don't need to fight against Deltakin, another powercreep in this faction :D
I can only talk for myself, but you nailed it on the head. Onager and Anakin is too much for me to handle. Loved playing Separatists btw. I stopped going to tournaments and I will probably sell off my collection pretty soon. Makes me really sad since I liked playing the game a lot.
I'm really sorry to hear that. I still find the game worth playing, but yours is a sentiment I have heard a lot of recently. We can only hope AMG decides to do something about it, but its AMG so who knows.
I enjoy the salvo mechanic a lot, if Anakin only added dice to salvo's id still play him, I basically only use the free gunnery team and the extra die. The Salvo double tap is, well, bullshit and an awful ruling by AMG, I've used it once to try to win a tournament (was third round of three), but I refuse to use something that doesn't match the rules as written.
double? Do you( and autor) mean whan Anakin's ship get attacked it can shoot Anakin's card salvo after regular salvo? But is it an activation of the Anakin ship? I am sure Anakin's card ability supposed to be used only when Anakin's ship make its own shot. This is a bit more balance I think.
@@EvgeniiShchetinin The official ruling from AMG allows for the Anakin player to salvo normally while defending, and then spend another salvo token to perform another salvo attack. This official ruling from AMG is on their rules forum. I agree it would be more balanced if that wasn't the case, but unfortunately that is not the world we live in.
Good video as always. You phrase it very well. AMG don't support the game as it should be. Despite all that, it's a wonderfull game even if it's hard to take it seriously now. I was planning to run Ani in a major tournament to also prouve a point but hey, you just did it. Also, is he really fun to play? Is he why we like that game? Certainly not. It's great that AMG still organize play and also give great prize but I really believe that the futur of Armada resides in his community.
A good player can beat a bad player who's using Anakin, but with admirals of equal skill, you're just relying on dumb luck to overcome his sheer mathematical advantage.
Nice video man. You nailed a bunch of how I feel about the new introductions, and gave me some new things to think about. I am a solid(?) mid-level player who also stays up a little later than he should looking at list setups. I feel like now, like has been said other places, instead of building a list for the sake of the list, I have to build to not get splashed by Anakin. It kinda throws a blanket on things when I do that. And yeah, Anakin takes my lunch money and gives me a swirlee. However, I would like to counter some of the hate at AMG. Here is why I give them some benefit. First, they are a small company with a lot games. I don't feel they purposefully napalmed the meta. Secondly, the community was chomping at the bit for new stuff, when they were trying to keep the game and community fresh, they accidentally "Anakined". Third, they may not have playtested RR2 for a year, but, again it is hard to play the game with a few folks the way the whole community would. I would like nothing more to continue throwing money at them for cool new models and engaging in the game. Not to mention the support for stores and communities that play casually, and local tourneys (beats watching the Broncos, oof). If it Anakin vs Sloane: one-on-one, I can only play that a couple times. It would be great if AMG could somehow figure out a way to justify paying a little more attention to Armada. Just some thoughts, sorry for the long wind.
I care a great deal for the Armada podcast. However, they themselves said in one of their shows last year that the intermediate game is almost non existent. THIS is one of the reasons why. I would be an intermediate player. To combat elements like Onager/ Sloane/Anakin, you have to be an ADVANCED/EXPERT player. When I saw noobies showing up to play a few games, collect a fleet, and then selling everything but their SD's and Onagers because that was all you needed to win, that means they're not there to have fun playing Armada, they're there to WAAC. When RR2 came out and my next 3 games in a row were against Anakin. I quit. I have massive fleets at home. I have multiples of everything, but I want to play ARMADA, not get curbstomped by Onager/Sloane /Anakin every game. Intermediate players should be the MAJORITY of the community, and we're all ditching our fleets because this is no fun. Looking for a fleet? They're being dumped EVERY day on the FB marketplaces. That's called "hemorrhaging"
I totally agree that the intermediate game is one of the most important parts of the community and needs the most support. Getting people into store champs and small regionals is a must for a healthy tournament scene, so things that force people away from that are a major issue.
I've been handed an ass-whipping by some great players, because they were great players, not because of an imbalance. I still had an awesome time and learned a lot. That's what I think a small tournament should be and even a FLGS league. When RR2 dropped I decided to ditch all of the summer tournaments because it's not an Armada tournament; it's a best of Onager/Sloane/Anakin tournament. @@Shyvalry
You get a point, but I still dislike Onagers more. However on booth cases it's just a combination of little things. Range, speed 4 (ET), raw hull, acc generation.. they have everything and You can field 2-3 of them. Anakin.. So far I only played against obce, but I agree with most if not all the points. For me add a die effect and potential triple tap was a good starting point but double salvo negates whole point of exchenging fire.
The recent results of GAR kind of counter your conclusion, that he won't be present at worlds. Good players are flying with him and winning, and they will bring him to worlds. He isn't just a problem at the intermediate level. At worlds last year I played 2 lists that Anakin would stomp on. You could probably go back through worlds 2023 and X out lists that he prohibits and see what he might do to worlds 2024.
Anakin is certainly part of GAR's recent rise in results but more of those results are without him instead of with him at the bigger tournaments. Matchstick is the more common sight. Anakin's success rate in 1 day events versus 2 day events (or any event with a top cut) are pretty different. Time will tell if that will continue, but my guess right now is that worlds will be absolutely infested with Onagers and thus Anakin could struggle to find significant success (that being making it to day 3).
I think Anakin wasn't posting results because a lot of players in the community were refusing to use him right away because he carries such an earned reputation for being broken.
As a veteran of this game since its release, I consider myself a very good player. I see new players want to learn and play this game. After their first experience against Anakin, I dont see them anymore at the local store tournament or even for casual play. This is sad. How can the game grow without new players? AMG threw a wrench into the works without any thought to the possibility of pissing off most of the "old" Armada community and losing veteran and newer players both. Is it good for the game? No, it creates a negative play atmosphere before dice are even thrown. Personally, I 'm tired of seeing the same lists all the time. Onagers and Anakin? Theres more to this game than that, alot more!
This is another reason that the intermediate game is non-existent. Beginners never get a chance to reach that stage. I want to play a STAR WARS game with capital ships and fighters. I DON'T want to play "Best of Onager/Sloane/Anakin". People are dumping their entire collections on ebay and FB marketplace. Even if the game is seriously revamped for balance issues, those people are not coming back. My very first game in 2020- The person running the league played an Imperial fleet, and said "That's an Onager, we're not using the special firing arc. Let's have some fun", and I did. Went crazy buying fleets because of that game.
The ruling that his double tap attack happens after the attack sequence (which is flat out wrong!) and that accuracys cant stop him from doing a double tap is one of the major contributing factors to this issue. If you could actually mitigate damage that way he wouldn't be quite as oppressive.
Yes the fact that you need 2 accuracies to stop the double tap from happening (while also importantly not stopping the brace or redirect!) heavily contributes to the issue. Only the Empire can reliably get 2 accuracies in a pool (Jonus, Pryce, Varn).
What is the list bidding for? Do you prefer first or second? It seems it can play either way, so you are bidding 10 points to be able to choose situationally?
I prefer second with it, purely because it only has the 3 activations. Being severely out-activated and forced to go first can put it in some bad spots. Having the control of second player helps it fight on its terms more. I chose second all 4 games of the tournament.
Anakin is interesting to me, because despite his large shadow in the meta, he hasn't won manor tournaments yet. He's definitely someone you have to take into account, but he doesnt seem to be the most impactful commander.
I think his impactfulness is more in how he's warping every other list in the game than in his ability to win tournaments (although that's coming up more, too). The fact that you could meet him in a tournament has retired a large number of fleets, because they would just instantly lose, and lose hard, if they came up against Anakin.
@@pluisjen134 He introduces a strong rock paper scissors dynamic. It's kind of exists in some aspects, but he amplifies it. He beats lists that onagers struggle with, but loses to onagers. So yeah, Anakin may struggle to win tournaments, but he'll clear the field for onagers and they'll be perpetual winners from now on.
He beats everything that onagers are weak to, then loses to onagers. He's clearing the field for onagers to win everything all the time. That's why he's not winning tournaments.
I don't know where my earlier comment went but your title for this fleet and your experiment is great, appropriate, and makes me laugh. There are many great insights and comments in the comments section. Great video! I appreciate your analysis and I agree with much of it. The potential to triple tap is just crazy. Without the possibility to triple tap you can still have a pseudo-advanced gunnery ship where you can attack twice from the same arc against the same target without giving your opponent an advanced gunnery ship or the issue with bonus points. The potential of two out-of activation attacks that are very consistent just supports your argument of deterring a player (especially if his fleet doesn't have the tools for it) from attacking altogether and hence promoting the incentive of 'not playing the game'. Matchstick costs just 14 points! Rogue Squadron costs 14 points and only gives you the Rogue keyword. Matchstick can (depending upon circumstances) give that keyword to a bunch of squadrons and has two defense tokens! Incredible efficiency. Personally, I am turned off from playing Farmhawks, Onagers, and guess what else, Anakin, because I just feel 'dirty' after playing it. But then again, I personally know people who have quit after Sloane appeared upon the scene. I like how new upgrades and ships introduce something new to game and the strategic puzzle they bring to the game. But, I agree, some pieces can discourage certain fleets and players with limited experience which hampers the game's diverse ways of playing and hampers its ability to grow, which makes me a little sad because I, like you, love this game.
Great video, and honestly your Anakin list is insane to look at, how good good it is.
As someone who still really new, I'm surprised Matchstick is just a bubble effect. Even Hera in the Ghost gets a cap of 2 squadrons. And she's paying a lot more for her ability (she does also gain some dice).
My local area plays Anakin as flagship only. It's going to be rough going to Qualifiers and playing full power Ani...
Best of luck!
I would statrt playing again if our local group agreed on some rules to even out the imbalances. This is my favorite game ever. :/
Thank you for the great insight! Got to this channel through your entry in the Armada Podcast, which i hear regularly. I would love to see a video about the current state of CIS since it is my favorite faction and it makes me kind of mad, when i compare the rapid reinforcements for the Republic with the RR for the CIS (both RRs btw.). I still love the game and i am happy to go to the World Open Qualifier this year! Best Greetings from Germany! :)
One thing: It consoles me, that at least when you fight against Anakin Commander, you don't need to fight against Deltakin, another powercreep in this faction :D
@@janekl9807 Very true, that is a nice silver lining!
I can only talk for myself, but you nailed it on the head. Onager and Anakin is too much for me to handle. Loved playing Separatists btw. I stopped going to tournaments and I will probably sell off my collection pretty soon. Makes me really sad since I liked playing the game a lot.
I'm really sorry to hear that. I still find the game worth playing, but yours is a sentiment I have heard a lot of recently. We can only hope AMG decides to do something about it, but its AMG so who knows.
I enjoy the salvo mechanic a lot, if Anakin only added dice to salvo's id still play him, I basically only use the free gunnery team and the extra die. The Salvo double tap is, well, bullshit and an awful ruling by AMG, I've used it once to try to win a tournament (was third round of three), but I refuse to use something that doesn't match the rules as written.
double? Do you( and autor) mean whan Anakin's ship get attacked it can shoot Anakin's card salvo after regular salvo? But is it an activation of the Anakin ship? I am sure Anakin's card ability supposed to be used only when Anakin's ship make its own shot. This is a bit more balance I think.
@@EvgeniiShchetinin The official ruling from AMG allows for the Anakin player to salvo normally while defending, and then spend another salvo token to perform another salvo attack. This official ruling from AMG is on their rules forum. I agree it would be more balanced if that wasn't the case, but unfortunately that is not the world we live in.
@@Shyvalry Thank you for the elaboration. Althoug, this is kinda wierd, that they allowed double salvo. RAW is quite clear:))
@@EvgeniiShchetinin Yes its certainly not how I would have ruled it!
Just casually name dropping Luke "skywalker" as their TO
Good video as always. You phrase it very well. AMG don't support the game as it should be. Despite all that, it's a wonderfull game even if it's hard to take it seriously now. I was planning to run Ani in a major tournament to also prouve a point but hey, you just did it. Also, is he really fun to play? Is he why we like that game? Certainly not.
It's great that AMG still organize play and also give great prize but I really believe that the futur of Armada resides in his community.
A good player can beat a bad player who's using Anakin, but with admirals of equal skill, you're just relying on dumb luck to overcome his sheer mathematical advantage.
Nice video man. You nailed a bunch of how I feel about the new introductions, and gave me some new things to think about. I am a solid(?) mid-level player who also stays up a little later than he should looking at list setups. I feel like now, like has been said other places, instead of building a list for the sake of the list, I have to build to not get splashed by Anakin. It kinda throws a blanket on things when I do that. And yeah, Anakin takes my lunch money and gives me a swirlee.
However, I would like to counter some of the hate at AMG. Here is why I give them some benefit. First, they are a small company with a lot games. I don't feel they purposefully napalmed the meta. Secondly, the community was chomping at the bit for new stuff, when they were trying to keep the game and community fresh, they accidentally "Anakined". Third, they may not have playtested RR2 for a year, but, again it is hard to play the game with a few folks the way the whole community would.
I would like nothing more to continue throwing money at them for cool new models and engaging in the game. Not to mention the support for stores and communities that play casually, and local tourneys (beats watching the Broncos, oof). If it Anakin vs Sloane: one-on-one, I can only play that a couple times. It would be great if AMG could somehow figure out a way to justify paying a little more attention to Armada.
Just some thoughts, sorry for the long wind.
Maybe they could introduce a mechanic that has Anakin grant like 150 Margin of Victory points, smaller amounts for less powerful Comanders? Maybe not.
I could not agree more
I care a great deal for the Armada podcast. However, they themselves said in one of their shows last year that the intermediate game is almost non existent. THIS is one of the reasons why. I would be an intermediate player. To combat elements like Onager/ Sloane/Anakin, you have to be an ADVANCED/EXPERT player. When I saw noobies showing up to play a few games, collect a fleet, and then selling everything but their SD's and Onagers because that was all you needed to win, that means they're not there to have fun playing Armada, they're there to WAAC. When RR2 came out and my next 3 games in a row were against Anakin. I quit. I have massive fleets at home. I have multiples of everything, but I want to play ARMADA, not get curbstomped by Onager/Sloane /Anakin every game. Intermediate players should be the MAJORITY of the community, and we're all ditching our fleets because this is no fun.
Looking for a fleet? They're being dumped EVERY day on the FB marketplaces. That's called "hemorrhaging"
I totally agree that the intermediate game is one of the most important parts of the community and needs the most support. Getting people into store champs and small regionals is a must for a healthy tournament scene, so things that force people away from that are a major issue.
I've been handed an ass-whipping by some great players, because they were great players, not because of an imbalance. I still had an awesome time and learned a lot. That's what I think a small tournament should be and even a FLGS league. When RR2 dropped I decided to ditch all of the summer tournaments because it's not an Armada tournament; it's a best of Onager/Sloane/Anakin tournament. @@Shyvalry
You get a point, but I still dislike Onagers more. However on booth cases it's just a combination of little things. Range, speed 4 (ET), raw hull, acc generation.. they have everything and You can field 2-3 of them.
Anakin.. So far I only played against obce, but I agree with most if not all the points. For me add a die effect and potential triple tap was a good starting point but double salvo negates whole point of exchenging fire.
The recent results of GAR kind of counter your conclusion, that he won't be present at worlds. Good players are flying with him and winning, and they will bring him to worlds. He isn't just a problem at the intermediate level. At worlds last year I played 2 lists that Anakin would stomp on. You could probably go back through worlds 2023 and X out lists that he prohibits and see what he might do to worlds 2024.
Anakin is certainly part of GAR's recent rise in results but more of those results are without him instead of with him at the bigger tournaments. Matchstick is the more common sight. Anakin's success rate in 1 day events versus 2 day events (or any event with a top cut) are pretty different. Time will tell if that will continue, but my guess right now is that worlds will be absolutely infested with Onagers and thus Anakin could struggle to find significant success (that being making it to day 3).
I think Anakin wasn't posting results because a lot of players in the community were refusing to use him right away because he carries such an earned reputation for being broken.
I think activation needs to change to "friendly ship activation"
Anakin should work like Agate does, just on the ship he's on.
That would certainly help!
As a veteran of this game since its release, I consider myself a very good player. I see new players want to learn and play this game. After their first experience against Anakin, I dont see them anymore at the local store tournament or even for casual play. This is sad. How can the game grow without new players? AMG threw a wrench into the works without any thought to the possibility of pissing off most of the "old" Armada community and losing veteran and newer players both. Is it good for the game? No, it creates a negative play atmosphere before dice are even thrown. Personally, I 'm tired of seeing the same lists all the time. Onagers and Anakin? Theres more to this game than that, alot more!
This is another reason that the intermediate game is non-existent. Beginners never get a chance to reach that stage. I want to play a STAR WARS game with capital ships and fighters. I DON'T want to play "Best of Onager/Sloane/Anakin". People are dumping their entire collections on ebay and FB marketplace. Even if the game is seriously revamped for balance issues, those people are not coming back.
My very first game in 2020- The person running the league played an Imperial fleet, and said "That's an Onager, we're not using the special firing arc. Let's have some fun", and I did. Went crazy buying fleets because of that game.
The ruling that his double tap attack happens after the attack sequence (which is flat out wrong!) and that accuracys cant stop him from doing a double tap is one of the major contributing factors to this issue. If you could actually mitigate damage that way he wouldn't be quite as oppressive.
Yes the fact that you need 2 accuracies to stop the double tap from happening (while also importantly not stopping the brace or redirect!) heavily contributes to the issue. Only the Empire can reliably get 2 accuracies in a pool (Jonus, Pryce, Varn).
What is the list bidding for? Do you prefer first or second? It seems it can play either way, so you are bidding 10 points to be able to choose situationally?
I prefer second with it, purely because it only has the 3 activations. Being severely out-activated and forced to go first can put it in some bad spots. Having the control of second player helps it fight on its terms more. I chose second all 4 games of the tournament.
Anakin is interesting to me, because despite his large shadow in the meta, he hasn't won manor tournaments yet. He's definitely someone you have to take into account, but he doesnt seem to be the most impactful commander.
That being said, the math *completely* backs you up. The win rate is nuts,and something needs to be done.
I think his impactfulness is more in how he's warping every other list in the game than in his ability to win tournaments (although that's coming up more, too). The fact that you could meet him in a tournament has retired a large number of fleets, because they would just instantly lose, and lose hard, if they came up against Anakin.
@@pluisjen134 Well said.
@@pluisjen134 He introduces a strong rock paper scissors dynamic. It's kind of exists in some aspects, but he amplifies it. He beats lists that onagers struggle with, but loses to onagers. So yeah, Anakin may struggle to win tournaments, but he'll clear the field for onagers and they'll be perpetual winners from now on.
He beats everything that onagers are weak to, then loses to onagers. He's clearing the field for onagers to win everything all the time. That's why he's not winning tournaments.