THIS IS NO LONGER CURRENT! Gas is now 25/25DPS AP5 Burning is now 50/50 AP4! Gas Now Causes Confusion, Enemies attack Randomly While Afflicted. Everything else is Accurate.
These are very nice man. Would love to see more of these and maybe a breakdown of boosters/supports/heavy enemies breakdowns too. I think you have a good spread with tips on new ways to use strats plus breakdowns of supports and now rounding it out with durable dmg vid and gas/fire dmg now too
Where did you get the data for your video? Fire has 50\25 damage with 4\4\4\0 penetration and 3 seconds duration, Gas has 50\50 damage with 6\6\6\0 penetration and 1 second duration, BurningHeavy dps 200\40 with 2\2\2\0 penetration and 1 second duration
that's the difference between hands on testing and reading numbers off the wiki I deferred to the hands on testing done on the subject as that was what is actually happening regardless of what the internal numbers say should happen
@revshansadsad3556 that's just the wiki numbers for the game man.. that doesn't mean it's what really happens in the game. Hell, they(AH) just admitted that this entire time the heavy devastators were coded to have an overheat on their laser cannon but not 1 person at AH knew it was wrong/bugged until a player got in the game and tested the coding the studio did, and proved that they programmed something wrong to where they never overheat. Once the person was able to show and reproduce the bug, AH admitted fault but this "revelation" that the bot had unlimited ammo didn't even happen until about a week ago and they have been coded to "overheat" and not be able to spam shoot for literally 40+ seconds(if you watch the vid he was already being shot at and then found a spot to hide while it shot at him and the video is about 47 sec long and the dev never stopped shooting once)... a dev saw this when they reported it complaining that the enemy was OP due to no overheat... that's when the dev admitted they coded him to but apparently they just never did any kind of quality check to see if that code worded or not.
The fire details are probably why most people are mad about the fire nerfs. If there was some information in game that could inform users what is happening im sure the complaints would be less... well, just less.
Can we have breakdown on thermite grenades next? Are they apply fire dot or something different? How they actually work? How many damage they do? I was puzzled recently about them since i throw 2 at Impaler's face and it just died. It wasn't what i expected at all and i wonder if it was a fluke or they just have some bizarre properties to them.
They are way more complicated than most things in the game for sure. I'd link a reddit explanation but sadly that would just get the comment deleted - hope Eravin makes a video on them!
I love gas, I wish there were more sources tho. Because of the recharge time, gas is significantly better at destroying bug nests than orbital strikes (but less than air strikes). As long as I have a quasar to deal with chargers and titans, I main the gas strike for everything else
Gas gun soon , an orbital gas barrage will eventually hit I’d guess . Need gas masks tho that would make it way more efficient to keep the enemies in the gas . They exit to fast if you don’t circle the gas or stun
I think a gas themed warbond would breathe some much needed life into the status itself. Maybe it could have some sort of handheld grenade launcher primary that explodes into small gas clouds instead of exploding like the support weapon variant, maybe even a sort of tranquilizer secondary that slows enemies while gas is applied.
The Pummeler is a good pick for gas and fire attacks to keep affected enemies in their place. And you could instead use the concussive liberator to force them back into the fire/gas if they try to flee.
@@JC-eo2qe can confirm this is the only really decent use for the lib concussive lol but it does it well. That and saving teammates more safely than shotguns I suppose. For the most part I’d rather have a cookout to shove them back and add that sweet fire dot to the gas!
Ohhhh so that's why Gas Strike and Napalm strike scores so hard! Both stack hilariously well in my pyromancer loadouts. Huh, truly that's gonna be fun when more gas releases.
Great and informative video as always Eravin. I just want to make a small correction - the gas strike is able to take out objectives due to the projectile having 50 demolition force, nothing to do with it's armor penetration. It's important to make this distinction else people could get the wrong idea about that mechanic. I wonder if someday we will understand how thermite damage works. Perhaps it could be included in a "DoT" loadout alongside gas and fire if it ever becomes more consistent.
For how one dimensional the nerfs and attempted balance in this game is, as well as the stats given to the player in game being simple, the damage system is hilariously over complicated.
Because those who are balancing the stats dont actually understand their own system. If they did theyd have known that buffing the durable damage of the AR pretty much amounted to nothing for their primary purpose.
@@sturmmagnunstein1008Its insane how they have enemy part health, durable dmg calculator, weapon dmg, and still fuck up the railgun instead of figuring out what is wrong(ps5 bug). It reeks of incompetence
Eravin I’m loving the series! A break down of boosters is something I personally would really appreciate seeing. I’d also say armor, but your armor guide already does an excellent job elaborating.
It will be interesting to see the buff come through later this week. Those who know, know that 'In the day" fire damage that bypassed armor...also bypassed YOUR armor for practical insta-TKs. I can't wait to hear the screams again.
Considering it is corrosive, it should have the same effect as those acid planets and reduce enemy armor caught in the area. I wouldn't mind some buffs to gas though. Larger radius, longer duration...and for the love of democracy, a purple cloud if it means making it pretty obvious to anyone around.
It kind of annoys me how damages almost never interact with each other. Really wish this game just had damage multipliers to weakspots instead of part breaking mechanics (Only for weakspots, I do like how the limbs get destroyed). It's almost never worth it shooting at an Alpha Commander that is going after a teammate because you can barely hit it's head and you'll likely not help them with bodyshots at all.
Yep, great example of the problems it creates. Your friend shoots the head, the head breaks it dies, all the bullets you sent to the torso were not a factor at all.
When it comes to alpha and brood commanders, I always go for the legs, especially when using something full auto like the adjucator or machine gun. It’s difficult to shoot them, but if you can cripple at least two the commander is only able to hobble towards your teammate and/or you.
@@JC-eo2qeI... Never do. Two taps of 2 rounds with HMG to the head at 750rpm. Easier to hit than the legs and if they are close enough to do a death charge, it's easy enough to avoid by diving or just walking at the right angle. Or 1 tap from the railgun. But I'm always running one of those for the blend of horde clear and their ability to take on larger targets
7:33 The reason why Gas Strike can destroy Fabricators and various optional objectives is because of it's 50 demolition force, not because it has AP7. Because it does not actually deal any damage to this structure at all, because Fabricators have an insane 20 armor, way more than anything has AP in the game, but even if it did the Gas Strike only deals 300 damage, and Fabricators have 1000 health. 40 demolition is enough to destroy Fabricators, but is not enough to destroy things like Detector Towers which need 50. All eagle stratagems, save for the Strafing Run, can destroy fabricators because of this, even Smoke Strike, because the shell itself always has 40 demolition force, though none except the 500kg, with it's impact and explosion having 50 demolition, can destroy those optional objectives.
@@EravinVT I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. I mean I'm sure YOU already knew of this, there are few who know the game better than you do, but I just thought this is important for people to know. I don't think many are aware that Eagle Smoke Strike even does any damage and alerts enemies, unlike the Orbital version, or that it has the ability to destroy Fabricators, even from among those that do look into the damage numbers of the game. And again, I apologize if I came off as overly pedantic or insensitive.
@@ThePiroMonster I've seen the Eagle Strafing Run kill Fabricators before, though. It's rare, and the strike does have to strafe dead on the front of it, but I've seen it.
@@ChrisWilliams-lf8ex Oh wow, really? I've never seen that, but I guess nobody ever brings Strafing Run to dif9 or 10 bots. That's really interesting! Guess it must be from the explosive damage they do, and if they angle into the vent then it's enough to destroy them?
I enjoy using the gas quite a bit when I am solo. When I’m on a serious dive with teammates I will just opt for the precision orbital (especially effective with the 10% ship upgrade). The precision can 1 shot tanks/titans/objectives with much more lenient accuracy and if it’s a large group of bots or bugs it will just remove them from the equation instead of slowing them down. I will say that gas and napalm are amazing for creating a wall of pain during evac which can buy your squad plenty of time for the Pelican to arrive.
@@EravinVT agree, especially vs bug breaches or just bugs overall... but it could be a bit too overpowered for now, so I doubt we will see anything like this soon (or other type of sentry/emplacement)
Idk how I feel about separate health pools. On one hand it can promote fighting different enemies in different ways, like focusing the limbs of a enemy with high durable head, and I love the dismemberment, the fact that’s is absolutely separate really cripples many aspects. Idk, maybe we can get a middle ground, like main health transfer portions to limbs, or maybe a certain threshold will weak limbs, like half health will immediately weaken everything else. Idk.
I feel like damage to the main health pool should deal some portion of damage to limbs/parts. It feels weird that a charger can suck up 15 seconds of acidic gas and be basically unaffected by it because we had to blow up its head to kill it.
Made me think how Crossout deals with this problem considering cars/crafts in this game consist of core cockpit and random details. Main difference is that damage "bleedthrough" happens in reverse too! Example: when core health (cockpit) gets damaged - it divides it's damage on number of all parts and apply this new little damage to every non-core part. This way effects that deal damage to core may contribute and help with destroying other parts
I don't think I can come back to this game until someone who's been coated in burning napalm receives more damage over time than someone whose toe got nicked by a single burning pellet from a shotgun 30m away.
Fr, if they can categorize projectile damage like "5.5x50mm FMJ" and "8mm", they can categorize DoT damage like "Incendiary Pellet" and "War Crimes Juice"
This just goes back to the developers ridiculous idea of what realism means in a video game. We're supposed to deal with this nonsense and have all strategyms on call in practically for 75% of the mission have no ammo because we're running around because of resupply is on respawn and we've picked up everything on the ground... But yet the rocket devastator has an unlimited barrage of rockets well we're stuck to our five 🤣 The devs obviously do not play their own game and if they do it's not all of them who play it it's only a couple. From what I've seen of them introducing escalation of freedom they didn't even know how to play their own game... It was very hard to watch. Like I'm sorry I'm going to need more than 50 hours put into the game that you designed to feel like you actually understand the players
@@dagdamor1I've been saying this for a while now that it wouldn't be much for them to implement a damage buff across the board and just say super earth found a stock of full metal jacket rounds that they're going to quickly give to the helldivers for use. And boom we get a damage boost and they get to tell a little bit of a story everyone's happy...
Give me a gas warbond with a gas grenade, gas sprayer, and a 95% gas resistance armor, i would love if it was a stalker-esque ascetic too. That is if they don’t pre nerf gas 2 days before the gas warbond comes out.
"If they have more then armor class 4 they take no damage from fire" Why must this game LIE to us so much? :( THEY ARE ON FIRE! I DON'T CARE IF IT ONLY DOES CHIP DAMAGE, YOU ARE CLEARLY ON FIRE! SO BURN! Wait.... The fire does do damage to the smaller bots? Good to know, Cus it does feel like they "stop burning" faster then the terminids do. So the Fire Upgrade gives you "HEAVY BURN" effect vs the normal "burn" effect. Good to know I will have to remember this. And yeah, I suspect "Hazard Ops" will bring us many Goodies.
It is so dumb that fire won't do more to the Bot consider that heat is their main problem or they won't have the giant heatsinks to radiate all the heat out. In DRG, if you roast the robotic enemy long enough, they'll get overheated and instantly kill. They take little to no fire damage but you filling the heat bar at quite significant rate.
Heh, reminds me of Darkwood when I killed Banshees using a gas bottle cloud, and then killed the Red Chompers who came in afterwards by throwing a match at the cloud. I should fire that game up again sometime.
Maybe I missed it, but how often does the fire/gas damage tick? Is it once per second at the values shown, or say, every 0.9 seconds (which would split evenly into the 2.7 seconds), or even 0.3 seconds? Sure, it's not that important, but I'm curious if there are any potential theoretical optimizations if the damage is applied in discreet packages (discontinous vs continuous variation).
Flamer weapons are interesting to me. One danger poot at a scout strider and it falls over in 3seconds after being touched by flame. Other bigger enemies require different tactics like Railgun, amr, Lazer pointer.... but that doesn't mean my channeled inner firebat will use those tactics and not just chuck an eagle napalm at the problem 😂
They should have done a Gas Barrage and I mean there now given us an MO to try and get the Napalm Barrage. Hell even an Airburst Gas Strike but the shrapnel is gas coated and sticks into the ground and let's off gas in the spread. Gas Strike in general is seriously great to use against bugs and nests just needs to be slightly bigger
Gas should disorient and slow enemies, make them attack and target friendlies, make it harder to path to you, bump into things / each other. Fire should block enemy movement on the ground and stun if being sprayed. Fire walls on the ground to block and streams of fire to stun lock so you can hold your ground.
Acidic gas should be a psychoactive neurotoxin that affects organics and inorganics. Fire should be treated like a solid and actively prevent itself from applying its DoT, it should also be a high pressure stream when shot.
Don’t forget about thermite DoT! The damage only says 100 in the game for this grenade but on the wiki I’ve done the math. You’ll get 150 dps and 150 durable dps against enemies for 7.5 seconds plus 100 damage with explosion at the end. Both the DoT and explosion have armor pen of 7. This gets you 1225 total damage. Also you get fire DoT but this has only armor pen 4. Either way I’ve been using these against tanks and cannon turrets and they work well. Sometimes they fail to stick though and bounce onto the ground :( Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
@@EravinVT right. My point was thermite has a DoT effect too with higher armor pen that’s quite stronger than the fire and gas DoTs. Though it’s limited in that can only hit one target per grenade.
I wish Gas had the same effects as the Acid Storm debuff. Being able to reduce the armour rating when an enemy is in a Gas Zone would make many weapons viable on the Bugs.
Seems by original design, fire DOT was never intended to kill chargers or heavy units. Didn't know about the AP fire mechanics, so does that mean its near impossible to kill a charger with say napalm strike? i guess you can but only if the projectile lands on the butt x2
Ok, so we now know that the floor stays on fire for 15 seconds, and that a burning floor will put enemies walking over it on fire. Does the floor fire still does direct damage by itself, or only indirectly by putting enemies on fire?
2:54 so if I'm understanding this correctly, and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Flamethrower is good up into difficulty five simply because that is when the heavier units such as chargers and heavy chargers start spawning? At six ,it comes about 50% viable to bring and 25% for difficulty's 7-10?
The flamethrower will still pop a charger butt very quickly if you get behind them with the direct damage. On the bug front it still works very well as a horde control weapon that can flex into killing chargers in a pinch at higher difficulties. A lot of people just write it off now that it doesn't completely trivialize chargers by hitting them through the leg armor.
The Stream of the Flamethrower does 600DPS AP3, this was going through the armor and hitting the leg within. The DoT Fire inflicted never did any damage to anything other than the body.
I want every munition type to get some kind of debuff as frankly fire dot is extremely powerful and hard not to take. Off the top of my head: Pure ballistic rounds: bleed dot Fire rounds: fire dot Laser: armor reduction with exposure time on specific body part Plasma/explosives: heavy slow (shell-shock) Gas: gas dot Then of course every weapon would still maintain its unique effects like pushback to further differentiate them. This would just give the group a REALLY good reason to all pick a different weapon type and improve loadout diversity as long as individual effects don’t stack like how fire does now (no double bleed, no double fire dot, ect.) Who’s with me?
I think weapons should have different effects based upon what they hit. For example, the Cookout and Breaker Incendiary should "overheat" bots (without a heat sink) intead of damage, but burn bugs, maybe a fear/avoidance effect. Blitzer should stun bots from overcharge/electrical shocks, but cause bugs to stagger uncontrollably like involuntary muscle jerking. Just straight stagger is boring, lets make it interesting/fun with little tweaks! Thermite should permanently reduce armor by 1, and destroy fabricators(but not bug holes). Flamethrower should kill bug nests, but not fabricators. There is so much fun little nuance that could be added to make some overlooked weapons have a place in many niche and interesting builds.
@@kriggaming Why should Thermites stop being able to destroy Bug Holes? Besides, the values for both are the same, the way the game's set up now it has to break both or none.
I really disagree with giving every weapon a dot or other status effect, I'd rather that be a unique trait of specific ones. Fire dot is nice, but not overwhelmingly strong by any means, and fire weapons have way worse direct damage and (sometimes) range to compensate. I do, however, agree that most explosive/plasma weapons should have significant stagger, and I've thought that lasers should weaken armor for a long time now.
@@TrixterTheFemboy Because the hole is only the opening to the eggs inside. Even if it collapsed the hole, the bugs would just dig it out (like an anthill). At most, it would hit 2 or 3 eggs. Whereas a fabricator has specific mechanical parts that would become inoperable.
Yeah bot how does the fire work on laser weapon ? Does the laser canon benefit from the enhanced stratagem fire damage ? Does the orbital laser benefit from it ?
Back when i still played this, i could kill a bile titan with the flame thrower. It wasnt speedy by any means (like 3 canisters kind of not speedy) and i usually would only do so when Railcannon or 500 kg failed to kill them for whatever reason. It was definitely the flame thrower and it occurred 3 separate occasions, enough for me to try to FT a bile titan when it survives stratagems. Is there immediately apparent reason this can occur or did a freak accident really occur that often?
So it came to light after I posted this that they are not infact immune to fire but do only burn for 28 damage per second with 3500 hp, the armor class penetration doesn’t matter and only the flag that the enemy is infact burnable matters, like how hulks lack the flag so they cannot be burned. You can burn most anything, but the durable damage does seem to matter and heavy units with a lot of hp are basically not viable to burn out
i just want to pick up a dead hulk's flamethrower arm and use it to spray everything with fire and then use it as a melee weapon to beat everything that didn't die in the fire. is that too much to ask?
While you wouldn't expect the gas to kill a titan or charger in a pinch, what a about the shell that it arrives with? Does it do substantial damage if you make it land on the target?
so about the thermite, any idea why it doesn't kill chargers in 2? like is the hitbox broken that the thermite fire dps doesn't get applied? same with emplacements, one thermite should be plenty but in testing unfortunately not
throwing more then one thermite on something at a time doesn't make it take anymore damage, you can only have the damage being dealt from one at a time, that and the additional fire damage isn't hurting anything the rest of the thermite DoT is
@roar104 flamethrower had better direct damage but the Tox weapon had the slow and the downside of literally doing nothing to non organic enemies so most of the cyborgs made it completely invalid
just likke you said it's buged and skipped the armor hit box altogether making the flammer Actully have ignore 'outer armor' instead of AP 3 like it intend to ; but dues to the FIX that made it cannot goes though hitbox, it also made the flamer cannot do it's OG intended job of CC the Hordes due to EVERY HITBOX BLOCK the flame from passing though the lower class enemy ; Which AH have to resently Fix again to allow the Flamer - flames to pass though Any enemy that has AP 3 or lower TLDR; the old Bugged Flamer ignore the Chargers leg 'Outer Armor' hitbox and goes to hit the inside of Chargers leg hitbox and Kill it really fast : while the new Fix Flamer does what it's suppose to do KILL the Hordes and lock down Zones of the map with AP3, although i think it's should have been AP5 so it does 150 dps to the Chargers leg instead that would be more balance
So youre telling me fire has more penetration and durable damage than most AR? Well i understand that you can target specific parts with the burn but... Something about this feels wrong
Man i really want to play in more non-traditional ways and they all just seem to be the weaker playstyle in this game and it saddens me. The laser, arc, fire, and gas weapons and stratagems are so much cooler and more fun to me than the ballastic and explosive weapons. But they are also so much more punishing to use overall 😢 i hope as the game progresses they buff up all these playstyles more
THIS IS NO LONGER CURRENT! Gas is now 25/25DPS AP5 Burning is now 50/50 AP4! Gas Now Causes Confusion, Enemies attack Randomly While Afflicted. Everything else is Accurate.
These are very nice man. Would love to see more of these and maybe a breakdown of boosters/supports/heavy enemies breakdowns too. I think you have a good spread with tips on new ways to use strats plus breakdowns of supports and now rounding it out with durable dmg vid and gas/fire dmg now too
Yeah these are great and very practical!
Where did you get the data for your video? Fire has 50\25 damage with 4\4\4\0 penetration and 3 seconds duration, Gas has 50\50 damage with 6\6\6\0 penetration and 1 second duration, BurningHeavy dps 200\40 with 2\2\2\0 penetration and 1 second duration
that's the difference between hands on testing and reading numbers off the wiki I deferred to the hands on testing done on the subject as that was what is actually happening regardless of what the internal numbers say should happen
@revshansadsad3556 that's just the wiki numbers for the game man.. that doesn't mean it's what really happens in the game. Hell, they(AH) just admitted that this entire time the heavy devastators were coded to have an overheat on their laser cannon but not 1 person at AH knew it was wrong/bugged until a player got in the game and tested the coding the studio did, and proved that they programmed something wrong to where they never overheat. Once the person was able to show and reproduce the bug, AH admitted fault but this "revelation" that the bot had unlimited ammo didn't even happen until about a week ago and they have been coded to "overheat" and not be able to spam shoot for literally 40+ seconds(if you watch the vid he was already being shot at and then found a spot to hide while it shot at him and the video is about 47 sec long and the dev never stopped shooting once)... a dev saw this when they reported it complaining that the enemy was OP due to no overheat... that's when the dev admitted they coded him to but apparently they just never did any kind of quality check to see if that code worded or not.
The fire details are probably why most people are mad about the fire nerfs. If there was some information in game that could inform users what is happening im sure the complaints would be less... well, just less.
Very Likely
Nobody is complaining about fire damage, just that fire weapons keep getting nerfed into the ground.
@@Nartanek they only complained about flamthrower not ignoring armor
@@PrimeRicci Considering that was the only reason to bring a flamethrower, it's pretty valid.
@@Nartanek When a crowd control weapon can't kill a tank.
Can we have breakdown on thermite grenades next? Are they apply fire dot or something different? How they actually work? How many damage they do? I was puzzled recently about them since i throw 2 at Impaler's face and it just died. It wasn't what i expected at all and i wonder if it was a fluke or they just have some bizarre properties to them.
They are way more complicated than most things in the game for sure. I'd link a reddit explanation but sadly that would just get the comment deleted - hope Eravin makes a video on them!
This is a very fair request. Please, I would like to know as well!
I love gas, I wish there were more sources tho. Because of the recharge time, gas is significantly better at destroying bug nests than orbital strikes (but less than air strikes). As long as I have a quasar to deal with chargers and titans, I main the gas strike for everything else
Gas Mortar when?
Gas gun soon , an orbital gas barrage will eventually hit I’d guess . Need gas masks tho that would make it way more efficient to keep the enemies in the gas . They exit to fast if you don’t circle the gas or stun
We need Orbital Gas Barrage
@@EravinVTI want a Taco Bell grenade
Walking gas strike when?
Very informative. Didn't know gas got AP6. Also the cloud seems to linger beyond the visuals for it quite often, which is unfortunate :/
Yeah it starts to fade visually around 13.2 seconds then hangs out for 2 more
@@EravinVT I always walk into my own strikes because of that :c
Gas strike barrage would be a recipe for instantly turning the battlefield into hell
They'll probably find out how to make it invisible for some people. Like those mines before.
I need to hear you yell WTF IS A KILOMETER on stream and spray an HMG into the air
maybe
@@EravinVT personally it would be so awesome
it would be so cool
@@presentrama It would be the most incredible superhero movie the world has ever seen
Undemocratic Peasants!
I think a gas themed warbond would breathe some much needed life into the status itself. Maybe it could have some sort of handheld grenade launcher primary that explodes into small gas clouds instead of exploding like the support weapon variant, maybe even a sort of tranquilizer secondary that slows enemies while gas is applied.
Would be a very interesting idea but knowing AH...well...you know...
Good news
It’s your lucky day yesterday.
This comment aged like wine
If you want to understand something then just expose yourself to it , then minus 80 percent of the effect and apply that to the enemy. Ez math .
lol
For real. The code feels like something a college student would write for their first video game.
@@Crispy_DAWG thing is, the student will at least try to do his best.
The Pummeler is a good pick for gas and fire attacks to keep affected enemies in their place. And you could instead use the concussive liberator to force them back into the fire/gas if they try to flee.
@@JC-eo2qe can confirm this is the only really decent use for the lib concussive lol but it does it well. That and saving teammates more safely than shotguns I suppose. For the most part I’d rather have a cookout to shove them back and add that sweet fire dot to the gas!
@@Ninjaguy132 Ah, I forgot about the cookout, it’s pretty much thee reason why you’d get the newest warbond.
This guy is part of the cannon, helldivers! Listen to General Brasch!
Ohhhh so that's why Gas Strike and Napalm strike scores so hard!
Both stack hilariously well in my pyromancer loadouts.
Huh, truly that's gonna be fun when more gas releases.
Great and informative video as always Eravin. I just want to make a small correction - the gas strike is able to take out objectives due to the projectile having 50 demolition force, nothing to do with it's armor penetration. It's important to make this distinction else people could get the wrong idea about that mechanic.
I wonder if someday we will understand how thermite damage works. Perhaps it could be included in a "DoT" loadout alongside gas and fire if it ever becomes more consistent.
For how one dimensional the nerfs and attempted balance in this game is, as well as the stats given to the player in game being simple, the damage system is hilariously over complicated.
ye
Because those who are balancing the stats dont actually understand their own system. If they did theyd have known that buffing the durable damage of the AR pretty much amounted to nothing for their primary purpose.
@@sturmmagnunstein1008Its insane how they have enemy part health, durable dmg calculator, weapon dmg, and still fuck up the railgun instead of figuring out what is wrong(ps5 bug). It reeks of incompetence
@@s2wuolf508 they simply dont play their own game.
@@s2wuolf508the railgun is pretty much back to what it used to be wym.
Eravin I’m loving the series! A break down of boosters is something I personally would really appreciate seeing. I’d also say armor, but your armor guide already does an excellent job elaborating.
It will be interesting to see the buff come through later this week. Those who know, know that 'In the day" fire damage that bypassed armor...also bypassed YOUR armor for practical insta-TKs. I can't wait to hear the screams again.
Are you reading my mind by any chance? I was about to ask you in yesterday's stream to try and explain how gas works.
lol
Considering it is corrosive, it should have the same effect as those acid planets and reduce enemy armor caught in the area.
I wouldn't mind some buffs to gas though. Larger radius, longer duration...and for the love of democracy, a purple cloud if it means making it pretty obvious to anyone around.
It kind of annoys me how damages almost never interact with each other. Really wish this game just had damage multipliers to weakspots instead of part breaking mechanics (Only for weakspots, I do like how the limbs get destroyed).
It's almost never worth it shooting at an Alpha Commander that is going after a teammate because you can barely hit it's head and you'll likely not help them with bodyshots at all.
Yep, great example of the problems it creates. Your friend shoots the head, the head breaks it dies, all the bullets you sent to the torso were not a factor at all.
When it comes to alpha and brood commanders, I always go for the legs, especially when using something full auto like the adjucator or machine gun. It’s difficult to shoot them, but if you can cripple at least two the commander is only able to hobble towards your teammate and/or you.
@@JC-eo2qeI... Never do. Two taps of 2 rounds with HMG to the head at 750rpm. Easier to hit than the legs and if they are close enough to do a death charge, it's easy enough to avoid by diving or just walking at the right angle. Or 1 tap from the railgun. But I'm always running one of those for the blend of horde clear and their ability to take on larger targets
7:33 The reason why Gas Strike can destroy Fabricators and various optional objectives is because of it's 50 demolition force, not because it has AP7. Because it does not actually deal any damage to this structure at all, because Fabricators have an insane 20 armor, way more than anything has AP in the game, but even if it did the Gas Strike only deals 300 damage, and Fabricators have 1000 health. 40 demolition is enough to destroy Fabricators, but is not enough to destroy things like Detector Towers which need 50. All eagle stratagems, save for the Strafing Run, can destroy fabricators because of this, even Smoke Strike, because the shell itself always has 40 demolition force, though none except the 500kg, with it's impact and explosion having 50 demolition, can destroy those optional objectives.
you forgot the well actually
@@EravinVT I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. I mean I'm sure YOU already knew of this, there are few who know the game better than you do, but I just thought this is important for people to know. I don't think many are aware that Eagle Smoke Strike even does any damage and alerts enemies, unlike the Orbital version, or that it has the ability to destroy Fabricators, even from among those that do look into the damage numbers of the game. And again, I apologize if I came off as overly pedantic or insensitive.
@@ThePiroMonster I've seen the Eagle Strafing Run kill Fabricators before, though. It's rare, and the strike does have to strafe dead on the front of it, but I've seen it.
@@ChrisWilliams-lf8ex Oh wow, really? I've never seen that, but I guess nobody ever brings Strafing Run to dif9 or 10 bots.
That's really interesting! Guess it must be from the explosive damage they do, and if they angle into the vent then it's enough to destroy them?
@@ThePiroMonster Yeah, that would be my guess. I think you get more consistent results when the door to the fabricator is open, as well.
I enjoy using the gas quite a bit when I am solo. When I’m on a serious dive with teammates I will just opt for the precision orbital (especially effective with the 10% ship upgrade). The precision can 1 shot tanks/titans/objectives with much more lenient accuracy and if it’s a large group of bots or bugs it will just remove them from the equation instead of slowing them down. I will say that gas and napalm are amazing for creating a wall of pain during evac which can buy your squad plenty of time for the Pelican to arrive.
Yup, coming back here for a refresher after Chemical Agents was announced. Gotta refresh myself on how to deal maximum elemental damage
That was a great video! Like you said, important information with numbers and no baiting.
2.7 seconds is an odd time for DoT effects lasting. I (kinda) wonder why....
It's probably meant to be something like 2.5 for 150 but server ticks and all that
I am simple diver.
All I want is Napalm and Gas Mortars for more... "team support" of course >_>
(Hope we will see it eventually in game :D )
Napalm Mortar would go kinda hard
@@EravinVT agree, especially vs bug breaches or just bugs overall... but it could be a bit too overpowered for now, so I doubt we will see anything like this soon (or other type of sentry/emplacement)
Idk how I feel about separate health pools. On one hand it can promote fighting different enemies in different ways, like focusing the limbs of a enemy with high durable head, and I love the dismemberment, the fact that’s is absolutely separate really cripples many aspects. Idk, maybe we can get a middle ground, like main health transfer portions to limbs, or maybe a certain threshold will weak limbs, like half health will immediately weaken everything else. Idk.
I feel like damage to the main health pool should deal some portion of damage to limbs/parts. It feels weird that a charger can suck up 15 seconds of acidic gas and be basically unaffected by it because we had to blow up its head to kill it.
Made me think how Crossout deals with this problem considering cars/crafts in this game consist of core cockpit and random details.
Main difference is that damage "bleedthrough" happens in reverse too!
Example: when core health (cockpit) gets damaged - it divides it's damage on number of all parts and apply this new little damage to every non-core part.
This way effects that deal damage to core may contribute and help with destroying other parts
10/10, once again
:D
I don't think I can come back to this game until someone who's been coated in burning napalm receives more damage over time than someone whose toe got nicked by a single burning pellet from a shotgun 30m away.
fair point
Fr, if they can categorize projectile damage like "5.5x50mm FMJ" and "8mm", they can categorize DoT damage like "Incendiary Pellet" and "War Crimes Juice"
An important followup is that I REALLY want to come back.
This just goes back to the developers ridiculous idea of what realism means in a video game.
We're supposed to deal with this nonsense and have all strategyms on call in practically for 75% of the mission have no ammo because we're running around because of resupply is on respawn and we've picked up everything on the ground... But yet the rocket devastator has an unlimited barrage of rockets well we're stuck to our five 🤣 The devs obviously do not play their own game and if they do it's not all of them who play it it's only a couple. From what I've seen of them introducing escalation of freedom they didn't even know how to play their own game... It was very hard to watch.
Like I'm sorry I'm going to need more than 50 hours put into the game that you designed to feel like you actually understand the players
@@dagdamor1I've been saying this for a while now that it wouldn't be much for them to implement a damage buff across the board and just say super earth found a stock of full metal jacket rounds that they're going to quickly give to the helldivers for use. And boom we get a damage boost and they get to tell a little bit of a story everyone's happy...
It's always a little crazy thinking about new content releases given so many bugs and balance issues, but adding gas grenades sounds like a winner
They need to solve it being just better fire first
Give me a gas warbond with a gas grenade, gas sprayer, and a 95% gas resistance armor, i would love if it was a stalker-esque ascetic too. That is if they don’t pre nerf gas 2 days before the gas warbond comes out.
Good to know about the gas and fire!
"If they have more then armor class 4 they take no damage from fire" Why must this game LIE to us so much? :( THEY ARE ON FIRE! I DON'T CARE IF IT ONLY DOES CHIP DAMAGE, YOU ARE CLEARLY ON FIRE! SO BURN! Wait.... The fire does do damage to the smaller bots? Good to know, Cus it does feel like they "stop burning" faster then the terminids do.
So the Fire Upgrade gives you "HEAVY BURN" effect vs the normal "burn" effect. Good to know I will have to remember this. And yeah, I suspect "Hazard Ops" will bring us many Goodies.
Yeeeeup
It is so dumb that fire won't do more to the Bot consider that heat is their main problem or they won't have the giant heatsinks to radiate all the heat out. In DRG, if you roast the robotic enemy long enough, they'll get overheated and instantly kill. They take little to no fire damage but you filling the heat bar at quite significant rate.
It certainly works against bots! I use the instant incendiary grenades to clear big groups of small bots and scout walkers instantly.
Ooooo what if they let us use gas and fire in combination, like igniting a gas cloud. Thoughts?
that be really fun
Heh, reminds me of Darkwood when I killed Banshees using a gas bottle cloud, and then killed the Red Chompers who came in afterwards by throwing a match at the cloud. I should fire that game up again sometime.
I just thought of another one, using stun grenades or the ems strike in combination with an arc weapon to create a aoe lightning blast.
OGas is amazing for missions like the Nursery and Geo Samples to have more control over the confirmed breaches. EMS Mortar is also amazing
Maybe I missed it, but how often does the fire/gas damage tick?
Is it once per second at the values shown, or say, every 0.9 seconds (which would split evenly into the 2.7 seconds), or even 0.3 seconds?
Sure, it's not that important, but I'm curious if there are any potential theoretical optimizations if the damage is applied in discreet packages (discontinous vs continuous variation).
5:30 That's crazy, silly me for assuming all parts of the fire damage got a buff. I should have known, AH loves to be complicated
Yeah I thought the flamethrowers direct damage was made stronger by that 🤦♂
"Heavy Fire" or Fire Puddles should have a slight Stagger and Push effects against chaff enemies.
Flamer weapons are interesting to me. One danger poot at a scout strider and it falls over in 3seconds after being touched by flame. Other bigger enemies require different tactics like Railgun, amr, Lazer pointer.... but that doesn't mean my channeled inner firebat will use those tactics and not just chuck an eagle napalm at the problem 😂
Thank you 🙏
Can't wait for the chem-gun from the first game, I wonder how they will handle its damage type in this one
I NEED gas based weaponry in this game, id be deliriously happy. More arc stratagems would be awesome too to actually make a real arc loadout
"I was curious.... under what circumstances would you require a fart gun?"
The gas was always very effective I actually thought it needed a bit of a buff on higher difficulties. But it really gets rid of the chaff
They should have done a Gas Barrage and I mean there now given us an MO to try and get the Napalm Barrage. Hell even an Airburst Gas Strike but the shrapnel is gas coated and sticks into the ground and let's off gas in the spread.
Gas Strike in general is seriously great to use against bugs and nests just needs to be slightly bigger
I'm still using the flamethrower
Gas should disorient and slow enemies, make them attack and target friendlies, make it harder to path to you, bump into things / each other.
Fire should block enemy movement on the ground and stun if being sprayed. Fire walls on the ground to block and streams of fire to stun lock so you can hold your ground.
Acidic gas should be a psychoactive neurotoxin that affects organics and inorganics.
Fire should be treated like a solid and actively prevent itself from applying its DoT, it should also be a high pressure stream when shot.
Don’t forget about thermite DoT! The damage only says 100 in the game for this grenade but on the wiki I’ve done the math. You’ll get 150 dps and 150 durable dps against enemies for 7.5 seconds plus 100 damage with explosion at the end. Both the DoT and explosion have armor pen of 7. This gets you 1225 total damage. Also you get fire DoT but this has only armor pen 4. Either way I’ve been using these against tanks and cannon turrets and they work well. Sometimes they fail to stick though and bounce onto the ground :(
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
That is thermite, not fire Thermite also does fire which functions as in the video, but the thermite DoT is not Fire nor Gas
@@EravinVT right. My point was thermite has a DoT effect too with higher armor pen that’s quite stronger than the fire and gas DoTs. Though it’s limited in that can only hit one target per grenade.
I wish Gas had the same effects as the Acid Storm debuff. Being able to reduce the armour rating when an enemy is in a Gas Zone would make many weapons viable on the Bugs.
That be my number one change to make gas more unique from fire
I await Arrowhead Studio to point out how realistic it is for 'fire' to burn off the 'gas' effects, so they don't stack...
So napalm strike with a scorcher is actually pretty decent if you keep resetting the flame damage.
Knowing Arrowhead, I’m surprised gas isn’t a hidden nose hitbox and if the creature’s nostrils are open for X frames
Thank you - next: Stagger / Stun / Ems please
Wouldn't mind having some 'lightning streaks' or something inside a gas strike so I can clearly see where it is regardless of planet filter color.
Visibility is definitely not hd2’s strong suit
I wish I could call the flamer/OGS combo the warcrime loadout but you can only commit warcrimes against humans.
Pest Control?
I wish the fire would set off the gas. That would look so cool.
I'm just afraid when/if we get a gas/toxic warbond they'll prenerf the gas to have lower pen etc
Seems by original design, fire DOT was never intended to kill chargers or heavy units. Didn't know about the AP fire mechanics, so does that mean its near impossible to kill a charger with say napalm strike? i guess you can but only if the projectile lands on the butt x2
I use the gas shell to kill the Detector tower and rogue lab in a pinch.😊
Ok, so we now know that the floor stays on fire for 15 seconds, and that a burning floor will put enemies walking over it on fire. Does the floor fire still does direct damage by itself, or only indirectly by putting enemies on fire?
Before EoF updateI could kill a lot more bugs while setting the ground on fire. Now it doesn’t feel the same anymore😮💨.
I hope they add more gas weapons. Gun, grenade, and eagle.
If memory serves, explosive damage also does main body damage. So things that do explosive damage should also stack well with fire and gas, yes?
I think I was wrong when I said that, explosive deals damage to non explosive immune parts and thats all
The new fire animation looks so bad 😬 good to know how good gas is with napalm though I guess
The gas grenades can't come soon enough, will be interesting to see if they can dethrone the stun nades as the best throwable tho
Likely not unless they change gas to shred armor level
As a war frame player.
I still can’t tell you what fire or gas is anymore.
Chem Corp, hopefully soon
hopefully
wait wait wait... gas nades are coming soon?! When was this announced? Woooo
2:54 so if I'm understanding this correctly, and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Flamethrower is good up into difficulty five simply because that is when the heavier units such as chargers and heavy chargers start spawning? At six ,it comes about 50% viable to bring and 25% for difficulty's 7-10?
Kinda yeah, the burning DoT effect is only useful for medium or smaller enemies and only just barely for medium
The flamethrower will still pop a charger butt very quickly if you get behind them with the direct damage. On the bug front it still works very well as a horde control weapon that can flex into killing chargers in a pinch at higher difficulties. A lot of people just write it off now that it doesn't completely trivialize chargers by hitting them through the leg armor.
How did the targeting the charger leg with flamethrower meta work if it only took body fire damage.
The Stream of the Flamethrower does 600DPS AP3, this was going through the armor and hitting the leg within. The DoT Fire inflicted never did any damage to anything other than the body.
Somebody wasn’t paying attention in class.
Post 17 Sep 2024 patch - Fire at AP4 will damage tanks now?
They should ditch the Hellpod fire mod and rework it to increase fire armor pen to 5.
I want every munition type to get some kind of debuff as frankly fire dot is extremely powerful and hard not to take. Off the top of my head:
Pure ballistic rounds: bleed dot
Fire rounds: fire dot
Laser: armor reduction with exposure time on specific body part
Plasma/explosives: heavy slow (shell-shock)
Gas: gas dot
Then of course every weapon would still maintain its unique effects like pushback to further differentiate them. This would just give the group a REALLY good reason to all pick a different weapon type and improve loadout diversity as long as individual effects don’t stack like how fire does now (no double bleed, no double fire dot, ect.)
Who’s with me?
I think weapons should have different effects based upon what they hit. For example, the Cookout and Breaker Incendiary should "overheat" bots (without a heat sink) intead of damage, but burn bugs, maybe a fear/avoidance effect. Blitzer should stun bots from overcharge/electrical shocks, but cause bugs to stagger uncontrollably like involuntary muscle jerking. Just straight stagger is boring, lets make it interesting/fun with little tweaks! Thermite should permanently reduce armor by 1, and destroy fabricators(but not bug holes). Flamethrower should kill bug nests, but not fabricators. There is so much fun little nuance that could be added to make some overlooked weapons have a place in many niche and interesting builds.
@@kriggaming Why should Thermites stop being able to destroy Bug Holes? Besides, the values for both are the same, the way the game's set up now it has to break both or none.
I really disagree with giving every weapon a dot or other status effect, I'd rather that be a unique trait of specific ones. Fire dot is nice, but not overwhelmingly strong by any means, and fire weapons have way worse direct damage and (sometimes) range to compensate.
I do, however, agree that most explosive/plasma weapons should have significant stagger, and I've thought that lasers should weaken armor for a long time now.
@@TrixterTheFemboy Because the hole is only the opening to the eggs inside. Even if it collapsed the hole, the bugs would just dig it out (like an anthill). At most, it would hit 2 or 3 eggs. Whereas a fabricator has specific mechanical parts that would become inoperable.
@@TrixterTheFemboy Maybe not every weapon, but there is definitely room for more variation.
Gas strike is soooo underrated
I still am wondering what your favorite mathematical formula is?
Yeah bot how does the fire work on laser weapon ? Does the laser canon benefit from the enhanced stratagem fire damage ? Does the orbital laser benefit from it ?
Back when i still played this, i could kill a bile titan with the flame thrower. It wasnt speedy by any means (like 3 canisters kind of not speedy) and i usually would only do so when Railcannon or 500 kg failed to kill them for whatever reason. It was definitely the flame thrower and it occurred 3 separate occasions, enough for me to try to FT a bile titan when it survives stratagems. Is there immediately apparent reason this can occur or did a freak accident really occur that often?
So it came to light after I posted this that they are not infact immune to fire but do only burn for 28 damage per second with 3500 hp, the armor class penetration doesn’t matter and only the flag that the enemy is infact burnable matters, like how hulks lack the flag so they cannot be burned. You can burn most anything, but the durable damage does seem to matter and heavy units with a lot of hp are basically not viable to burn out
Outstanding , thanks for the answer
I wonder if it would be worth it to bring the gas, napalm, and ems strategems together for the ultra dot and control build
worth it probably not fun? yes
@EravinVT definitely think it would be so fun to lock up a bug breach and watch the chaos 😂
The concussive AR should be a gas weapon.
Does the newly added fire from laser beam weapons works the same way? How long you have to hit a target before it ignites?
This is a great question I'd like answered as well lol
It is all the exact same.
I don't even subscribe this channel so why notifications are coming
i just want to pick up a dead hulk's flamethrower arm and use it to spray everything with fire and then use it as a melee weapon to beat everything that didn't die in the fire. is that too much to ask?
Fire DMG
Enemies: 😪
Players: 💀
Eravin you gotta make a new video about the new gas lmao
I know I hate it
Does gas obscure your position from enemies like smoke does?
While you wouldn't expect the gas to kill a titan or charger in a pinch, what a about the shell that it arrives with? Does it do substantial damage if you make it land on the target?
Not particularly
@@EravinVT Alright! Thanks for the speedy reply. Love your work.
so about the thermite, any idea why it doesn't kill chargers in 2? like is the hitbox broken that the thermite fire dps doesn't get applied? same with emplacements, one thermite should be plenty but in testing unfortunately not
throwing more then one thermite on something at a time doesn't make it take anymore damage, you can only have the damage being dealt from one at a time, that and the additional fire damage isn't hurting anything the rest of the thermite DoT is
Didn't HD1 have an acid super soaker?
It did, it was the best support weapon for bugs
Yeah, the TOX-13 Avenger... A bit of a side-grade to the flamethrower in that game...
@@Nedezirata was a straight upgrade iirc
@roar104 flamethrower had better direct damage but the Tox weapon had the slow and the downside of literally doing nothing to non organic enemies so most of the cyborgs made it completely invalid
Information is ammunition!
What was fire like before the update? I recall that it skipped armor somehow-how did it kill Chargers so quickly?
just likke you said it's buged and skipped the armor hit box altogether making the flammer Actully have ignore 'outer armor' instead of AP 3 like it intend to ; but dues to the FIX that made it cannot goes though hitbox, it also made the flamer cannot do it's OG intended job of CC the Hordes due to EVERY HITBOX BLOCK the flame from passing though the lower class enemy ; Which AH have to resently Fix again to allow the Flamer - flames to pass though Any enemy that has AP 3 or lower
TLDR; the old Bugged Flamer ignore the Chargers leg 'Outer Armor' hitbox and goes to hit the inside of Chargers leg hitbox and Kill it really fast
: while the new Fix Flamer does what it's suppose to do KILL the Hordes and lock down Zones of the map with AP3, although i think it's should have been AP5 so it does 150 dps to the Chargers leg instead that would be more balance
But you can kill Bile Titans with a flamethrower if their back armor has been destroyed
That isn't the Fire DoT, that's just the weapon damage.
Okay but what I want to know is when you drop in with a booster like Vitality, do your teammates instantly get the buff or how does that work?
Vitality booster gives you and your friends 20% additional damage resistance stacking with your armor DR
From a technical standpoint does it happen the moment you drop in...?
Does the bubble shield and backpack do anything to protect you against gas/fire?
nope
Is gas bugged again? Lately I’ve been throwing gas strikes directly on bug breaches and getting zero kills.
Gas weapons one day please AH 🙏🏾
Hold up. Spore chargers have class 4 armor on their body? That means they are vulnerable to things like the HMG!?
The core inside the armor not visible
@@EravinVT Well....that' just makes no sense....why even bother changing that?
So youre telling me fire has more penetration and durable damage than most AR? Well i understand that you can target specific parts with the burn but... Something about this feels wrong
thermite grenade next time please！I'm confusing about how that works for a long time
Man i really want to play in more non-traditional ways and they all just seem to be the weaker playstyle in this game and it saddens me. The laser, arc, fire, and gas weapons and stratagems are so much cooler and more fun to me than the ballastic and explosive weapons. But they are also so much more punishing to use overall 😢 i hope as the game progresses they buff up all these playstyles more
I need an animated avatar for my videos...
Way better than my visage.
Now do melee damage, I want to know how melee hits until you get to the center of a terminid head.