Honestly most of the Echo problems would be solved if they just make the full Sonata effect require 4 of the same set (AKA allowing 1 off-set Echo). This would solve issues like: 1. Different Elemental Bonus Mainstat being worthless (You can now equip Glacio Bonus Mainstat on a Havoc/Fusion/etc... set for your Glacio characters) 2. Unlucky worthless Substat (Imagine getting Heavy Attack/ResLib Bonus on your Havoc Echo for Camellia, now you can give it to someone like Jiyan or XLY)
Completely understandable if this is your first "Genshin Impact" like game. But if you come from any other of those, this Echo system is a godsent. Playing this game since release and every new character that I get takes me at most a week until I have a usable set. This only gets easier with upcoming events as those will reward you Echo pick boxes, so even if you don't want to farm echoes in the world you can just wait for those. If I compare that to for example Genshin... I still don't have a usable set for mavuika and I started farming for her last year in august on 5.0 release. So overall getting the matching echo main stats should take no longer than a week (If you are willing to farm the world echoes). From then on, optimizing substats is basically the "endgame" in wuwa. This will get easier the longer you play the game. For example, everyone who started pre 2.0 and had the old Glacio Set ready, could just slap that on and is ready to go until the new set is ready. That is applicable for future characters as well because the 1.0 sets are so generic that hey can easily fit every DMG character. Also, just because I didn't see you mentioning it, for some characters (like carlotta) ATK% main stat 3 cost echoes are a viable option as well. If you have her weapon, an ATK% 3 cost is even better than a Glacio DMG 3 cost. (Info from prydwen.gg) To the topic of flat stats.Lets take Encore as an example. If you ever thought "oh nice i rolled Basic Attack DMG but sadly it has flat ATK on it", then I can tell you, the flat ATK roll gives you a bigger damage boost than the Basic Attack DMG roll. This applies to most characters if you take a look at the prydwen.gg character build and substat priority. Of course, ATK % would be better but by your logic all the DMG % substats also have to go because for most characters those are worse than the flat ATK roll.
exactly, new players want perfect set first week of the patch, this is way too much to ask for, i built the attack increase set (the red icon one) on the first month of the game, useable on every dps and i can still clear the tower with it on carlotta (had one mid glacio dmg piece on that set so it was enough) and now i'm farming for her set because obviously it is better, but it is fun to fly around and hunt echoes, there's absolutely no reason to complain about echo farming because the only way you would ever have an issue with it is if you want the perfect set with highest dmg numbers which you don't even need because all end game content is clearable without it
comparing the echo system to the artifact system is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
@@simulatedaep true I did compare it to mechanics from other games, but like I also stated, this is only an "issue" at start of the game. There will be a point when there is nothing else to do but to min max rolls on echoes and that point comes fairly quickly. This was a topic at 1.0 start as well but died down after around a month because most people just got their stuff. and that was without kuro throwing echo choose boxes at you. I still have 15 of those boxes lying around simply because I don't need them. Also lets say a glacio set can have no other element on it. That would mean 3 cost echoes can have only ATK%, Glacio DMG, HP%, DEF% and energy recharge. This means you get an "upgrade worthy" echo 40% of the time (which btw is even higher than for 1 cost echoes with 33%). Result of that would be so many echoes that your next complaint would be the shortage of tuners. (which was also a topic in 1.0) If all those fixes you mentioned were in the game my carlotta would be 100% built in the first hour of the 2.0 patch simply by the fact that I have stored so many tuners and crystal solvent (which im sure most day one players did) Maybe it's just me but I see it as a fun part of the game to min max my echoes (aside from the fact that I have no clue what else to do with my waveplates) what in my opinion really needs a change is how you get 4 cost echoes... Echoes like Hecate are totally fine because you have retry button but the new Nightmare 4 cost or the sentry construct are really a pain waiting 3 minutes after every kill until they respawn.
Not only are the pointless flat stats and mismatched elements annoying, but so if the time it takes to level up echoes. If they don’t change the flat stats and mismatches, at least let us use the useless rolls as xp….
Understandable stance and I hate this design as much as anybody else but it really is better for everybody to accept that this is a symptom of generic gachas. If you look at this in the companies' perspectives, these make perfect sense 1. By the time you actually start experiencing these problems, youre highly likely already hooked in the game. You're meant to not feel accomplisihed 90% of the time to keep you logging in daily, despite you feeling these frustrations. FOMO basically 2. The majority of the demographic for these games are the ones that suffers the least from these mechanisms so they get away with it . 3. Luck based progression is the easiest way to pad play time without progression being obviously and painfully slow at times. If its any consolation, you can run rain bow sets with subpar substat rolls and youd still clear the hardest stat checking content in the game. End game is more of a character check than a stat check really with stat checks being secondary requirements Kuro is among the companies that actually listen to player feedback so voice your concerns as much as you can but keep your expectation for this particular matter as low as possible
Just wanted to say good on you for going out of your way making a video voicing your concerns in a constructive manner instead of just bitching on twitter about this stuff. Echo farming in this game is "better" than other gacha games but its still not a good system.
I believe this system is part predatory and part for replayability. I farmed for 3 days only geochelone for a healing main stat, got nothing. But if we could have the echos we want,we would be stacked up by now and never in need to farm (or from the company pov to continue playing the game)
Being lvl 72, I wish they had a pity system like they do in honkai star rail, being able to craft one every few days, would be SO much better than spending weeks-months to get a good rolled elemental buff piece just to have it roll all into def flat or hp flat for a char like Carlotta who NEEDS elem %/Crit rate/Crit dmg...
Wait for the event that gives you selectable star - they will come sometime in near future im sure . That will be the “pity” and good luck on rolls. Matching sonata isn’t THAT bad. Just do a small round every day of 5-10 mins or whatever it is. Know the locations and pray - easy
Literally my thoughts. Asian devs love to artificially bloat the numbers of things you can get with RNG just for you to search for the right things for a very very long time. It's not just gacha games, but some AAA like Monster Hunter as well. I guess it's just too hard to come up with an adequate game loop beside the endless rng grind. Other than that, the game is great.
It usually takes me a week maybe two at most to have a really good set for a new char in wuwa. In genshin it could take me months to have a character ready. The main stat rng isn't an issue from that pov, especially when you can farm ~4 different 3costs spread over the entire overworld that goes in the sets. Then you add on the echo drop rate food to that and events that give you boxes with specific main stats for each set and it's even easier. And on the flat stats, I'd rather have the option to roll a small amount of atk than def%/HP% for my dps characters. Just like I'd rather take more hp for characters scaling of hp.
they should just change the specific attribute bonuses to a blanket statement and call it "Attribute dmg bonus" or something, you still could roll HP or Def but it would make 3 cost echoes a ton less painful. good vid btw 👍
i find it so weird that so many players defend the rng echo system with 'its worse in other games' and? doesn't mean it has to be bad here aswell. I would rather be able to get perfect stats roll anyday over useless rolls ie wrong element main stat for a different effect set or bad main stat with good substats such weird mentality. The tafect fields are already super easy so i fail to see how getting better rolls on avg hurts the game in the slightest.
It doesn't, it's just coping. On the other hand, its really isn't that bad, IF you're willing to put the time into it. And that is a big if. Its a live service game. You get like 10-15 hours of actual contents every few months, so the rest of it need to filled with something meaningful. And gear grind is pretty much the stable of any RPG. Like yeah I would love to just get perfect roll on the first piece I get, but then why even log in past the first week? From the outside looking it, it's perfectly understandable why some people hate it. But having gone through the grind myself, it's also understandable why some people dont think it's that bad. Because we WANT to log in and play the game, and the gear grind give us a reason to do so. I fucking loved playing Genshin, but after the story and exploration is done, which take like 8-10 hours every 3-4 months, it's literally pointless to spend anymore time in that game after your daily, and for some people that's a turn off. I quitted because of it, I dont wanna play a game 10 minutes a day, like can you even call that "playing"? This system, as shitty as it look, "fixed" that problem for some of us.
I see what you're saying about it being a grind but isn't that what it's supposed to be, I've played lots of gacha and gear is always the roadblock to progress, but I have realized that games with easy gearing are farming systems get boring so fast because you trivialize everything, characters become over gear and way too strong way too easy taking away most of the RNG which is the main focus of a gacha game seem a little Conter productive, to me at least what I think would help though is a pity system for echos instead, so if your roll a certain amount of time you get to choose the main stat on a piece of your choice but not being able to roll the other elements on a piece takes away like 90% of the gacha aspect in a gacha game is what I think. Btw good vid being new to TH-cam and all. subbed 👍
you have this issue because you have other good uses for your waveplates, it isnt until UL like 65+ that you get excess of all other materials and can dedicate FULLY to echo farming. It has layers of rng because its meant to be the long term endgame, you're never supposed to get ideal perfect echos, you're meant to get close asymptotically close as your spend nearly infinite materials. But you dont need perfect echos to clear content, you can clear everything easily on average echos. acquirable with 1-2 weeks of waveplates. Flat rolls are not useless. Flat atk is often the 4th or 5th best stat (one you'd in theory WANT on a perfect echo). the max flat atk you can get is not 50, but 70. 5% on each echo is not on the low end, thats impossible to be that low. but even still, 5% on each piece at 1500 atk would be 375 atk total. 70 flat x5 would be 370 total. a 5 attack difference. You get a flat amount of 700 because flat atk comes on your 4 cost and 3 cost echos for free as a BASE stat. Flat HP is good for the several chars who scale off of hp. flat defense will be when more defense scaling characters exist.
flat attack is only labeled as 'good' because there are worse stats, getting max flat attack rolls is inconsequential to your characters overrall dps, which is why i said its useless.
@@simulatedaep It's not inconsequential. Like a good flat roll is 2-3% DPS increase on average. FYI, %atk is only 3-4%, and a MAX crit roll is like 7%, so flat atk is ~40% value of the best stat that you want. Obviously you will want double crit on all your pieces, but of the 3 remaining slot of each piece, getting flat atk is not a bad thing. And yeah, some stat will always be the worst one to get. Even if they make every stat relevant (and they are, just for specific characters, there are upcoming characters that will scale off HP and DEF, and those stats will be good on them), some of it will be the worst and therefore unwanted, so the logic of "its only good because other stats are worse" doesn't make sense. Something will always be the worst.
@simulatedaep no. I mean relative to your overall dps, a %atk roll give 3-4% increase. I'm not talking about the actual number of the roll, but their value when you plug them into your dps calculation.
@@canhnguyen-uj6ox that is also demonstrably untrue, scaling off atk, the absolute lowest atk% roll you can get being 7%, if you get the lowest atk% roll on all 5 pieces thats an extra 35% atk, assuming you have a baseline 1500 atk thats an extra 525 atk, meanwhile maximum flat atk on every piece is only 250 added onto your attack, literally half, and thats the LOWEST atk% vs the HIGHEST flat atk
I do agree that the echo farming in this game is very annoying, but I believe the main reason the devs made the echo farming system this way, is to increase the longevity of things to aim for, because if not, getting perfect echoes on your characters would be too easy, and clearing content would be even easier (aside from the tower of adversity). It made in a way so you always have something to look for even though you've finished most of the content. When I was your level I struggled with echoes too but still managed to clear everything I needed with little to no problems. Now that I'm lvl 76 I've gotten really good echo sets on basically all of my characters now, but still have those few pieces that could be even better, so when I run out of content for the month or 2 before an update I can always spend time farming for them. If not its essentially just dailies farm simulator. It you focus on farming the echoes you need for around 3 days you'll most likely finish at least 1 characters set.
it doesnt have to be a terrible or too easy type of deal; they can keep the longevity of things to aim for without having the echo farming be the worst thing in the game, for example, removing different element rolls for 3 costs would keep the rng of getting a good main stat while also removing completely shit pointless echoes that serve 0 purpose to anyone
is farming certain element% on cost 3 is this really a bigger problem? maybe for me its not... because ive been in waaay bigger than this one. ok. in my previous game its takes me months worst a year! just to get a certain element goblet with hoping that the subs stats is CRT rate/DMG and will get slap by RNG DEF/HP. then i wait months again. heck 1 year i dont have at least a so-so dendro goblet on it. if i remember correctly it takes me 6-8 months just for eula. the fact that i give up and settle to just a so-so subs stats set to it. (what i mean of SO-SO subs stats is like 1 roll to 1 crit stats and everything go south) while in this game? with in 4 months of span i got like 4 sets of ver 1.0 echo set with all of it having CRT rate/DMG..... idk if it is really this a big of a problem or players really want just POOF!!! instant good echo in a day... i dont know......
It would be good if they could add another system where you can transform useless echo into tuning mats/ exp mats. This would alleviate the materials issue. I don't mind the farming but getting bad rolls after bad rolls and not enough mats especially when you are new is really demotivating. Sure some people do get lucky but rng can be shit af and some people could spent months just to get a good set.
I agree with the flat substat, but for main stats RNG im good with it. If everyone gets a guarantee good main stats right on the get go what's the point of an overworld farming, just go to the tacet field spend your waveplates, while you're at it remove the overworld in general as well coz what's the need of it, you'll get everything on challenges anyway. The real solution is to like you said remove flat rolls and amp up the probability of getting a good mainstat on tacet field. Additionally give us a consumables for a reroll on a specific substats, something that you can only get 1-2 per week should be enough.
I’ve been playing since launch on mobile, echo exp is an issue since launch. Too little exp, the devs do double drops events but that’s every now and then. If they could just add it each week, I think the exp issue would be alleviate somewhat. There is a food that’ll increase Echo drop rate. I use that whenever I want to farm echos.
lowkey as a day 1 lvl 80 player with 200000 overflow exp, I've never found echo farming annoying or anything even when I was just getting 5 star echos without red bosses, elemental dmg bonus as a main stat would already make it way too easy with a pool of 4 or 5 ish main stats on 3 costs, Kuro already made it much easier than other gacha games by not having to roll into crit rate/dmg multiple times. Even then, scalings on elemental bonus vs atk% aren't very major, with some characters as carlotta even being better with hybrid glacio + atk% because of a certain set bonus. Also I assume that this would also remove healing % etc from certain 4 costs, which invalidates certain builds such as healing % spectro set spectro rover, which I personally use to clear all of the hardest content as a combo enabler thru 'morning aix's slam' + sustain for a double dps quick swap comp. lastly flat stats are also best in slot for some sustains such as shorekeeper, where you need as much hp as possible for a crit dmg follow up set, or queezing as much atk on verina as possible, which wouldn't make sense if it certain stats were to apply only to a certain set. There are a ton more offbuilds that people use utilizing different elemental dmg bonuses with different sets and main stats, not just the standard cr/cd/e%/e%/a%/a% builds. And also can't this idea just make lingering tunes the easiest set in terms of viability? it would just serve as a one size fits all for every character, since it would be switched around easily and to some players there would be no set in farming for a new set if one that can be slapped onto every character is only around ~10% worse on average.
even then getting a bunch of off set echos can help early game with synthesis into the data bank, or it would actually would feel that there are echos that you can "burn" since they are off-set and not viable anyways. Having "discardable" echos, or artifacts in any game help give that satisfaction when getting what you're looking for. Kuro have been nice enough as it, I don't see a reason to complain about the only thing a player would really need to grind for.
echo xp isnt an issue for me anymore its the RNG of the mainstat and substats. carlottas sig echo should not roll stupid ones like healing recovery i have farmed construct all day for 3 days now and have yet to see a bis IM DYINGGG
that makes echo farming challenging its the same on the other gacha games, where you will not be satisfied as you perfect your rolls as the time goes on.
challenging is fine, but when the only “challenge” is how lucky you get, you start questioning how much of it is actually ‘challenge’ vs kuro being dickheads
@@simulatedaep the thing here is the game also drops free echoes in the overworld but the drop system for 3 cost is 1:4 (not sure of it) maybe making it 1:2 would make players farm echoes at faster pace, its just the frustration building up during echo haunting but the satisfaction it brings when it rolls good is different ahahaha, but your point into flat stats is real and i agree with that.
day 1 f2p player (UL 80) and... I personally have no issues? maybe is because you're stepping into the midgame? and I'm no hardcore farmer or anything; I farmed since release for Carlotta and I have 5 echos with double crits; but idk I feel is mostly because you're at mid game; I could have kinda started agreeing if you mentioned echo exp but you didn't so I assume is not a problem for you (for me neither) so yeah idk, maybe late game feels better overall but not sure, is all based on personal experience in the end :)
wuwa is still a gacha game you will face a wall one way or another that's just how it is, if you ever played any older gacha games stat roles are waayyy worst but I agree on you its bad i think a good solution might be to allow players to recycle echos as exp and allow a way to reroll a stat you dont like.
i have a lot of experience in gacha games (genshin, hsr, epic seven, arknights, nikke, fgo, etc) im aware how bad it is in other games, its still terrible in wuwa, and wuwa is (in)famous (depending on who you ask) for breaking gacha norms (no 50/50 on weapon banner, skip button, not restricting movement to certain characters) so for them to leave this system as complete ass is kinda disappointing
You guys not farming echos in the overworld? that's kinda pointless to spend waveplates to farm the echos themself, I only use it for mat and what come useable with it is extra. never had a problem with echos but I'm day 1 player level 80 so I don't know about the new player experience. Plus data bank is a good tool to get rid of unusable echos for potentially good ones
only lvl your echos to 10 if they do not have crit or crit damage then stop rolling if it has one great stick it up to 20 and see if it gets the other if it gets both at 10 just level it to 25.
this is a good idea, ive been doing this, but this creates its own problem; youre using more tuners than exp mats (20 tuners for the first 2 main stats, if theyre bad i usually skip) and this has caused some people that ive spoken to to not have enough tuners to continue echo farming, and the same issue with echo exp mats if you do it the other way around, and the only way to get either of these is with waveplates which are very limited
There are other gacha's ( mainly hoyoverse gacha's ) that are worse than this. Farming 4-cost echo's is unlimited and your able to get a lot of 1 cost ones a day (especially with drop food buffs) so going 4-4-1-1-1 on your echo cost slots is a far better way too increase your characters potential as a new player early on. That said if they could merely introduce a way off getting resources as you thrash echo's and those resources allowed too reroll main stats ( or better exchange main stats ) that would make everything a lot better/easier while still requiring players too have long lasting potential because of random substats. I do agree that it is very stupid that an echo from the glacio/spectro ( echo can be farmed for both for example ) set can get fusion, aero etc dmg bonus as main stat. There is no explanation for it in the lore for this and the main stats should only be too roll for the sets the echo is able to be farmed for.
comparing the echo system to the artifact system is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
@@simulatedaep Wow, it was 1 sentence. The very first sentence in fact that did any kind of comparing. And it was meant too highlight that the echo system is already an improvement over other systems before i kicked off talking about the echo system. Don't give me that toxic positivity bs if you couldn't even bother too read the rest :S
and if were talking about useless main stats, the rolls of actual good substats is awful, I have played since launch and only 1 echo had hit max crit rate, I have almost never gotten crit rate above 7% (probably like 10 echoes max). and to add onto that, with the nightmare echo variants released, all other bosses are basically useless. spent 1000 waveplates for good dreamless, well now the night mare is better. we got a skin for the inferno rider, the nightmare inferno rider is better and doesn't apply the skin.
Honestly the rng is the whole point of the game so I can't rly agree. I mean for the past 5 years since genshin launched (and prbly gotchas before it) the same artifact/relic susbtat systems have been in place where you get constantly get new artifacts to get the least amount of unwanted stats and no one has changed it. The only thing that's changed is how you get those stats. That's the one issue I have with echo's is it cost's an insane amount of materials to upgrade echos and you can't use unwanted echos as recycle material to upgrade other echos like in most other gotchas. As far as the rng goes that's just a fundamental part of gotchas. They give you the game for free they just want you to spend more time playing because every extra minute you play is a minute you could possibly be spending money so they add elements that would take up time. compared to other gotchas the amount of echos/artifacts you can get in a day without refreshing your waveplates/resin is >10x higher in wuwa, but to even the playing field the amount of echos you get that will be potentially useful is very low compared to how many you get. still at max level you can probably only level up one or two echos a day with the amount of upgrade materials you get, but that's relatively the same across all gotchas. I really just wish you could recycle unwanted unleveled echos into materials to upgrade other echos. I understand that you can farm an insane amount of echos per day so the ratio of echos to materials would be pretty strict and harsh, Im just tired of having all these echos and nothing to with them but combining them to make new ones, what does that matter if I can't use them because I can't level them.
comparing the echo system to the artifact system is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
Naa echo farming isn’t bad i just dont like how bosses are limited to 15 tries a week thats the worst part but at database 21 that kinda isn’t an issue that much
I do want to say about the flat stats comment, 50 Flat ATK is actually competitve with DMG Bonus rolls on most characters, so if we're dogging on Flat ATK, we gotta be dogging on DMG Bonus as well.
Typical problem for a relatively new player like you. You’re mistaken. Echo/artifact farming in this game is straightforward thanks to the developers; you just need to put in the effort to farm. In contrast, artifact farming in Genshin can take months or even years due to the RNG and resin limitations. However, in WuWa, the process is much faster. With consistent farming, I managed to achieve excellent stats for all five of my DPS in just three months. The RNG on a rolling in this game is much better. Play the game and don't make mistakes like making this video.
Factually speaking, you’re wrong. Artifiacts in Genshin only have 10 possible substats that can be rolled, whereas in Wuwa there are 15 different substats to roll from. Even if you were to remove flat ATK, HP, and Def, which are functionally useless substats in comparison to their % counterparts, you’d still have 12 substats to roll between, which is more than Genshin. Also, citing your anecdotal experience isn’t a solid refutation. I’ve been playing since launch and got Changli the day she released, and yet my echoes are still not where I want them to be. On the other hand, some people I’ve spoken to simply got lucky and rolled excellent echoes in a single week or less. Yes, it’s nice that in Wuwa echoes can be farmed by killing enemies in the overworld, whereas in Genshin all 5 star Artifacts must be farmed from Domains. But this ignores the fact that 1. overworld enemies are limited for the day, 2. overworld enemies are not guaranteed to drop your desired sonata set, and 3. overworld enemies are not guaranteed to drop your desired mainstat. And this isn’t even getting into the echo leveling system. Unlike Genshin, which has both a dedicated Artifact XP item and the ability to use undesired artifacts as fodder to level up your good ones, Wuwa only has dedicated echo XP material which must be farmed using Waveplates. The only echoes that can be used as XP for other echoes are ones that have already been leveled, which in and of itself requires echo XP materials, and the disparity between the fodder echo’s level and the amount of XP it gives to the echo you’re leveling is enough to where even if you’re using already leveled echoes as XP, you’ll still have to use XP mats to fully level the good echo. This system brings in yet ANOTHER system of RNG, which is the echo merging feature. Merge whatever echoes you don’t want for one absolutely random echo in return. It honestly isn’t very useful. Good for clearing out your echo inventory when it gets full, but that wouldn’t be a factor if you could simply use all those useless echoes as XP for your good ones. And something that many people like to say is that the game “needs to keep you invested,” and that reworking echoes to make farming less grueling would cause players to “have no reason to continue playing.” That’s something I disagree with for multiple reasons. For one, I’ve spoken to many people who’ve been grinding for good echoes on their characters for months to no avail. Fighting such an uphill battle has done nothing but diminish their desire to play/farm. Second, weekly bosses are limited to 3 collections per week, meaning that it already takes multiple weeks to fully level the skill tree of ONE character. And most people have more than one character that they need to build. Third, even if you were to remove the flat ATK, HP, and Def rolls, you’d still have 12 substats to roll between. That’s more than enough RNG to get through to get people continually farming for good echo rolls.
@@iedb Nah, the RNG in Genshin is quite abysmal. I spend two years grinding that shit out with Ayato and Neuvilette and I got mediocre stats. It only took me about 3 months to get excellent stats in all of my 5 DPS in WuWa. The RNG is much better. Players were complaining of the same thing 1 month after WuWa's release including me. But if you keep on farming those echoes, you'll realize that the RNG is that much better. Seasoned Wuwa players are not complaining now. That's the reason why nobody is talking about it anymore. Play the game before you write down your nonsense essay.
@iedb Factually speaking this is utter bs... 1. The Chance of getting the right element in a goblet in genshin is 0.5%, getting a crit rate helmet 1% try getting that First. Those chances as abyssmal... 2. Yes Just ignore the fact that you need to roll multiple Times in the Same stat to get a usable piece. Don't know how many crit rate/crit dmg artefacts i trashed because all Rolls went to HP/def 3. 13 substats not 15. So genshin has 10 substats over 4 Slots while wuwa has 13 substats over 5 Slots. That is Not even an Argument because it evens itself Out...
@@justplay5016I’ve been playing since launch you nitwit, and have been farming echoes for Changli since the day she released. And yet I still haven’t reached a crit ratio that I’m happy with, and am still stuck around 55/270. As I said, your anecdotal experience farming is a worthless point to make, as I can do the exact same thing with my own experience. And as I mentioned, I can do the same thing with others as well. I’ve spoken to multiple players who’ve also been here since launch who are still farming echoes on characters like Jinhsi and Changli. I have played both Genshin and Honkai Star Rail, Mihoyo’s current two largest games, a very fair amount. I played Genshin for 3-4 years straight as one of my main games. Genshin’s artifact farming system is admittedly terrible, but just like you, I can simply cite my own anecdotal experience of getting a 60/280 crit ratio on Hu Tao over a year ago after a few months or so of farming to say that “Genshin’s RNG isn’t as terrible.” Both being bad doesn’t free Wuwa from criticism. People have criticized Genshin’s predatory artifact system for years to no avail, but no one is surprised there as Genshin’s dev team has never been particularly responsive to it’s playerbase’s requests. Wuwa’s dev team on the other hand has shown that they listen to their players and are open to changing things if players are unhappy. Getting complacent and bending the knee to shitty RNG systems because “well… it was worse for me in other gachas” is counterproductive and will lead to nothing other than players being forced to submit to these gacha games’ RNG systems constantly for the foreseeable future.
@@justplay5016 its still bad bro😭idk how you people arent getting this, it being better than genshin doesnt make it good, for all the reasons i listed out in the video
DUDE... It's a gacha games and guess what ? You need to farm to have what you want. (and in the case you dont know, the echoes you dont need can be fusioned them in data bank). You have only ONE month of play time, let the time spent. Use your waves plates and farm. After that it's you and your luck (like a gacha...)
comparing the echo system to the artifact system (or any gacha game) is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
@@simulatedaep @simulatedaep I much prefer that they keep their community with this system. It’s pretty great and pretty "innovative" compared to other games (because, don’t forget, it’s a gacha, and there’s a lot of psychological research behind it to figure out exactly how to keep players engaged for the longest time, for ultimately pushing them to spend money). Sure, they could improve the echo system, but not in the way you suggested. If they do, the game could completely change little by little without anyone noticing. To end up as a crappy game PS : I'm F2P since the realese and i have all character, with 5 star weapons. But i drop near the hard Pity. I liked Genshin, now i hate it. PPS : They realy inprove the system of echoes (compare to 1.0), and i'm sure they will continue. Be patient and never forget you play a gacha game. Not diablo, not world of warcraft and not Warframe...
You can still play the entire game with all of the worst rolls you mentioned. You dont need perfectly rolled echos for anything. You ask us what the "benefit" of having those bad rolls are. Well this is a single player adventure game, there's no "benefit" to getting good rolls either, other than a 10% faster clear time. The game isnt forcing you to compete with others on how much damage you can do or how perfect your build is, yet youre so bent on it.
main stats have too many variables, they should remove the elemental dmg bonuses in 3 cost echoes and make it like elemental dmg bonus or attribute dmg bonus bc it makes no sense to give a havoc dmg bonus in a glacio set. those flat stats are also kinda mid, I don't even think giving 50 flat atk would make any difference. making 4 cost DPS echoes have main stats of defense, hp, and healing bonus is a crime and should only be put onto shit like rejuvenating sets and such. it costs way too much to tune and level echoes (leveling in general is expensive)
This video is 100% a bait. Half the points made have no real reason behind them apart from you just not liking how the system works yourself. i watched this because i was interested in seeing what this was about, but it ended up just being a what i don't like video. Playing Wuthering Waves vs other games with systems like it. HSR-Genshin-ZZZ you could use as examples they have much lower odds then WuWa and also you cant farm drops from the open world. no one is telling you to spend your waveplates on echos. As for your ATK rant idk about that. late game player an i find that having ATK% vs ATK to be a very small difference from testing an if anything you try roll Flat ATK an also ATK% on the same roll
@@ltsAvos ok here bro let me break it down for you, the amount of rng when it comes to echo farming is objectively bad, flat rolls are useless, they only bloat the stat pool, it makes 0 sense to be able to get fusion dmg bonus on a glacio damage bonus set, like i said, just bloating the stat pool and adding more POINTLESS rng
@@simulatedaep If you could get perfect echos instantly what would be the point in farming for echos. its not a pointless mechanic as it adds a grind to the late game an something to work for. if your a UL lvl 80 player an have a fully maxed character 90 with lvl 90 weapon you grind echos. but lets say you just get given the perfect set an you have perfect rolls. then youd have no point in playing the game until new content drops. the reason behind it is late game people have something to do if you wanna. Lower Ul players just see it as pointless due to the fact they struggle i suppose. sure its a little annoying at time an how long you have to farm but thats the whole point. it gives you something to work for each day an if you don't wanna grind echos in the open world they give an option to quick farm in the tacets. but in the end if you dont like a game with rng maybe dont play a gacha game in the first place idk 😀
@@simulatedaep btw watched 5 minutes from your bad video then decided to make a comment due to your poor excuses behind why you don't like the system an how you hate rng an want everything to be perfect. but i suppose "i didn't watch the video" complain more before getting your facts it might help
Meh I get my ecohs from open world it took like 3 days to fully gear my new character and another day of nightmare farming to get those echos. Huge problems is leveling all that crap cuz mats are still very few specialy in new region it becomes super hard with rerolling echos. They need to give more or increse amount cuz full days stamina is not enough to get one eco to 25+ exp.
Honestly man there are so many other games that are so much worse. Part of playing a gacha game is RNG. If it bothers you this much i reccommened you play a different kind of game and avoid gachas.
@@tomekpiatek88 this is quite literally just toxic positivity at work, just because it could be worse doesnt mean its bad, and removing at least some of the rng wouldnt make it a “kindergarten version”
@simulatedaep It would be boring and unnecessary. There are morphable echoes as rewards in events, also echoes come in abundance after some time of playing the game. There is enough to pick up a good build pretty much passively. Also the build doesn't need to be perfect if You don't commit to it. Don't expect to get a perfect build in the first week for free. The system is quite good. Otherwise everyone would have the same build and it's not fun. Play the game and use what You have is enough to clear content. Want super optimized biuld, then grind for it.
![New Tower Of Adversity 2.0 / Carcharo - Danjin Solo - Jiyan / Full 30 Crests [Wuthering Waves]](/img/n.gif)
Honestly most of the Echo problems would be solved if they just make the full Sonata effect require 4 of the same set (AKA allowing 1 off-set Echo). This would solve issues like:
1. Different Elemental Bonus Mainstat being worthless (You can now equip Glacio Bonus Mainstat on a Havoc/Fusion/etc... set for your Glacio characters)
2. Unlucky worthless Substat (Imagine getting Heavy Attack/ResLib Bonus on your Havoc Echo for Camellia, now you can give it to someone like Jiyan or XLY)
This is basically a perfect solution, it’s also why artifact farming in Genshin wasn’t as bad for me
Completely understandable if this is your first "Genshin Impact" like game.
But if you come from any other of those, this Echo system is a godsent. Playing this game since release and every new character that I get takes me at most a week until I have a usable set. This only gets easier with upcoming events as those will reward you Echo pick boxes, so even if you don't want to farm echoes in the world you can just wait for those.
If I compare that to for example Genshin... I still don't have a usable set for mavuika and I started farming for her last year in august on 5.0 release.
So overall getting the matching echo main stats should take no longer than a week (If you are willing to farm the world echoes). From then on, optimizing substats is basically the "endgame" in wuwa. This will get easier the longer you play the game. For example, everyone who started pre 2.0 and had the old Glacio Set ready, could just slap that on and is ready to go until the new set is ready. That is applicable for future characters as well because the 1.0 sets are so generic that hey can easily fit every DMG character.
Also, just because I didn't see you mentioning it, for some characters (like carlotta) ATK% main stat 3 cost echoes are a viable option as well. If you have her weapon, an ATK% 3 cost is even better than a Glacio DMG 3 cost. (Info from prydwen.gg)
To the topic of flat stats.Lets take Encore as an example. If you ever thought "oh nice i rolled Basic Attack DMG but sadly it has flat ATK on it", then I can tell you, the flat ATK roll gives you a bigger damage boost than the Basic Attack DMG roll.
This applies to most characters if you take a look at the prydwen.gg character build and substat priority. Of course, ATK % would be better but by your logic all the DMG % substats also have to go because for most characters those are worse than the flat ATK roll.
exactly, new players want perfect set first week of the patch, this is way too much to ask for,
i built the attack increase set (the red icon one) on the first month of the game, useable on every dps and i can still clear the tower with it on carlotta (had one mid glacio dmg piece on that set so it was enough) and now i'm farming for her set because obviously it is better, but it is fun to fly around and hunt echoes,
there's absolutely no reason to complain about echo farming because the only way you would ever have an issue with it is if you want the perfect set with highest dmg numbers which you don't even need because all end game content is clearable without it
comparing the echo system to the artifact system is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
@@simulatedaep true I did compare it to mechanics from other games, but like I also stated, this is only an "issue" at start of the game. There will be a point when there is nothing else to do but to min max rolls on echoes and that point comes fairly quickly.
This was a topic at 1.0 start as well but died down after around a month because most people just got their stuff. and that was without kuro throwing echo choose boxes at you. I still have 15 of those boxes lying around simply because I don't need them.
Also lets say a glacio set can have no other element on it. That would mean 3 cost echoes can have only ATK%, Glacio DMG, HP%, DEF% and energy recharge. This means you get an "upgrade worthy" echo 40% of the time (which btw is even higher than for 1 cost echoes with 33%). Result of that would be so many echoes that your next complaint would be the shortage of tuners. (which was also a topic in 1.0)
If all those fixes you mentioned were in the game my carlotta would be 100% built in the first hour of the 2.0 patch simply by the fact that I have stored so many tuners and crystal solvent (which im sure most day one players did)
Maybe it's just me but I see it as a fun part of the game to min max my echoes (aside from the fact that I have no clue what else to do with my waveplates)
what in my opinion really needs a change is how you get 4 cost echoes... Echoes like Hecate are totally fine because you have retry button but the new Nightmare 4 cost or the sentry construct are really a pain waiting 3 minutes after every kill until they respawn.
This is normal in gatcha games, but I'm with you, is a pain in the ass having to farm and explore, it should be fixed
Not only are the pointless flat stats and mismatched elements annoying, but so if the time it takes to level up echoes. If they don’t change the flat stats and mismatches, at least let us use the useless rolls as xp….
Turn the elemental dmg bonus stat into just elemental dmg bonus% without the element and remove flat rolls
just equip atk%
Understandable stance and I hate this design as much as anybody else but it really is better for everybody to accept that this is a symptom of generic gachas. If you look at this in the companies' perspectives, these make perfect sense
1. By the time you actually start experiencing these problems, youre highly likely already hooked in the game. You're meant to not feel accomplisihed 90% of the time to keep you logging in daily, despite you feeling these frustrations. FOMO basically
2. The majority of the demographic for these games are the ones that suffers the least from these mechanisms so they get away with it .
3. Luck based progression is the easiest way to pad play time without progression being obviously and painfully slow at times.
If its any consolation, you can run rain bow sets with subpar substat rolls and youd still clear the hardest stat checking content in the game. End game is more of a character check than a stat check really with stat checks being secondary requirements
Kuro is among the companies that actually listen to player feedback so voice your concerns as much as you can but keep your expectation for this particular matter as low as possible
Just wanted to say good on you for going out of your way making a video voicing your concerns in a constructive manner instead of just bitching on twitter about this stuff. Echo farming in this game is "better" than other gacha games but its still not a good system.
I believe this system is part predatory and part for replayability.
I farmed for 3 days only geochelone for a healing main stat, got nothing.
But if we could have the echos we want,we would be stacked up by now and never in need to farm (or from the company pov to continue playing the game)
Being lvl 72, I wish they had a pity system like they do in honkai star rail, being able to craft one every few days, would be SO much better than spending weeks-months to get a good rolled elemental buff piece just to have it roll all into def flat or hp flat for a char like Carlotta who NEEDS elem %/Crit rate/Crit dmg...
Wait for the event that gives you selectable star - they will come sometime in near future im sure . That will be the “pity” and good luck on rolls. Matching sonata isn’t THAT bad. Just do a small round every day of 5-10 mins or whatever it is. Know the locations and pray - easy
Literally my thoughts. Asian devs love to artificially bloat the numbers of things you can get with RNG just for you to search for the right things for a very very long time. It's not just gacha games, but some AAA like Monster Hunter as well. I guess it's just too hard to come up with an adequate game loop beside the endless rng grind. Other than that, the game is great.
It usually takes me a week maybe two at most to have a really good set for a new char in wuwa. In genshin it could take me months to have a character ready. The main stat rng isn't an issue from that pov, especially when you can farm ~4 different 3costs spread over the entire overworld that goes in the sets. Then you add on the echo drop rate food to that and events that give you boxes with specific main stats for each set and it's even easier.
And on the flat stats, I'd rather have the option to roll a small amount of atk than def%/HP% for my dps characters. Just like I'd rather take more hp for characters scaling of hp.
they should just change the specific attribute bonuses to a blanket statement and call it "Attribute dmg bonus" or something, you still could roll HP or Def but it would make 3 cost echoes a ton less painful. good vid btw 👍
crazy how literally my whole youtube feed nowadays are titles like "wuwa ruined"
i clickedbaited this isnt a wuwa ruined video
i find it so weird that so many players defend the rng echo system with 'its worse in other games' and? doesn't mean it has to be bad here aswell. I would rather be able to get perfect stats roll anyday over useless rolls ie wrong element main stat for a different effect set or bad main stat with good substats such weird mentality. The tafect fields are already super easy so i fail to see how getting better rolls on avg hurts the game in the slightest.
It doesn't, it's just coping.
On the other hand, its really isn't that bad, IF you're willing to put the time into it. And that is a big if. Its a live service game. You get like 10-15 hours of actual contents every few months, so the rest of it need to filled with something meaningful. And gear grind is pretty much the stable of any RPG. Like yeah I would love to just get perfect roll on the first piece I get, but then why even log in past the first week?
From the outside looking it, it's perfectly understandable why some people hate it. But having gone through the grind myself, it's also understandable why some people dont think it's that bad. Because we WANT to log in and play the game, and the gear grind give us a reason to do so.
I fucking loved playing Genshin, but after the story and exploration is done, which take like 8-10 hours every 3-4 months, it's literally pointless to spend anymore time in that game after your daily, and for some people that's a turn off. I quitted because of it, I dont wanna play a game 10 minutes a day, like can you even call that "playing"? This system, as shitty as it look, "fixed" that problem for some of us.
I see what you're saying about it being a grind but isn't that what it's supposed to be, I've played lots of gacha and gear is always the roadblock to progress, but I have realized that games with easy gearing are farming systems get boring so fast because you trivialize everything, characters become over gear and way too strong way too easy taking away most of the RNG which is the main focus of a gacha game seem a little Conter productive, to me at least what I think would help though is a pity system for echos instead, so if your roll a certain amount of time you get to choose the main stat on a piece of your choice but not being able to roll the other elements on a piece takes away like 90% of the gacha aspect in a gacha game is what I think. Btw good vid being new to TH-cam and all. subbed 👍
you have this issue because you have other good uses for your waveplates, it isnt until UL like 65+ that you get excess of all other materials and can dedicate FULLY to echo farming. It has layers of rng because its meant to be the long term endgame, you're never supposed to get ideal perfect echos, you're meant to get close asymptotically close as your spend nearly infinite materials. But you dont need perfect echos to clear content, you can clear everything easily on average echos. acquirable with 1-2 weeks of waveplates.
Flat rolls are not useless. Flat atk is often the 4th or 5th best stat (one you'd in theory WANT on a perfect echo). the max flat atk you can get is not 50, but 70. 5% on each echo is not on the low end, thats impossible to be that low. but even still, 5% on each piece at 1500 atk would be 375 atk total. 70 flat x5 would be 370 total. a 5 attack difference. You get a flat amount of 700 because flat atk comes on your 4 cost and 3 cost echos for free as a BASE stat.
Flat HP is good for the several chars who scale off of hp. flat defense will be when more defense scaling characters exist.
flat attack is only labeled as 'good' because there are worse stats, getting max flat attack rolls is inconsequential to your characters overrall dps, which is why i said its useless.
@@simulatedaep It's not inconsequential. Like a good flat roll is 2-3% DPS increase on average. FYI, %atk is only 3-4%, and a MAX crit roll is like 7%, so flat atk is ~40% value of the best stat that you want. Obviously you will want double crit on all your pieces, but of the 3 remaining slot of each piece, getting flat atk is not a bad thing.
And yeah, some stat will always be the worst one to get. Even if they make every stat relevant (and they are, just for specific characters, there are upcoming characters that will scale off HP and DEF, and those stats will be good on them), some of it will be the worst and therefore unwanted, so the logic of "its only good because other stats are worse" doesn't make sense. Something will always be the worst.
@ atk% is literally impossible to go below 6% so youre just lying
@simulatedaep no. I mean relative to your overall dps, a %atk roll give 3-4% increase. I'm not talking about the actual number of the roll, but their value when you plug them into your dps calculation.
@@canhnguyen-uj6ox that is also demonstrably untrue, scaling off atk, the absolute lowest atk% roll you can get being 7%, if you get the lowest atk% roll on all 5 pieces thats an extra 35% atk, assuming you have a baseline 1500 atk thats an extra 525 atk, meanwhile maximum flat atk on every piece is only 250 added onto your attack, literally half, and thats the LOWEST atk% vs the HIGHEST flat atk
I do agree that the echo farming in this game is very annoying, but I believe the main reason the devs made the echo farming system this way, is to increase the longevity of things to aim for, because if not, getting perfect echoes on your characters would be too easy, and clearing content would be even easier (aside from the tower of adversity). It made in a way so you always have something to look for even though you've finished most of the content. When I was your level I struggled with echoes too but still managed to clear everything I needed with little to no problems. Now that I'm lvl 76 I've gotten really good echo sets on basically all of my characters now, but still have those few pieces that could be even better, so when I run out of content for the month or 2 before an update I can always spend time farming for them. If not its essentially just dailies farm simulator. It you focus on farming the echoes you need for around 3 days you'll most likely finish at least 1 characters set.
it doesnt have to be a terrible or too easy type of deal; they can keep the longevity of things to aim for without having the echo farming be the worst thing in the game, for example, removing different element rolls for 3 costs would keep the rng of getting a good main stat while also removing completely shit pointless echoes that serve 0 purpose to anyone
is farming certain element% on cost 3 is this really a bigger problem?
maybe for me its not... because ive been in waaay bigger than this one.
ok. in my previous game its takes me months worst a year! just to get a certain element goblet with hoping that the subs stats is CRT rate/DMG and will get slap by RNG DEF/HP.
then i wait months again. heck 1 year i dont have at least a so-so dendro goblet on it.
if i remember correctly it takes me 6-8 months just for eula. the fact that i give up and settle to just a so-so subs stats set to it.
(what i mean of SO-SO subs stats is like 1 roll to 1 crit stats and everything go south)
while in this game? with in 4 months of span i got like 4 sets of ver 1.0 echo set with all of it having CRT rate/DMG.....
idk if it is really this a big of a problem or players really want just POOF!!! instant good echo in a day... i dont know......
It would be good if they could add another system where you can transform useless echo into tuning mats/ exp mats. This would alleviate the materials issue. I don't mind the farming but getting bad rolls after bad rolls and not enough mats especially when you are new is really demotivating.
Sure some people do get lucky but rng can be shit af and some people could spent months just to get a good set.
I agree with the flat substat, but for main stats RNG im good with it.
If everyone gets a guarantee good main stats right on the get go what's the point of an overworld farming, just go to the tacet field spend your waveplates, while you're at it remove the overworld in general as well coz what's the need of it, you'll get everything on challenges anyway.
The real solution is to like you said remove flat rolls and amp up the probability of getting a good mainstat on tacet field. Additionally give us a consumables for a reroll on a specific substats, something that you can only get 1-2 per week should be enough.
I’ve been playing since launch on mobile, echo exp is an issue since launch. Too little exp, the devs do double drops events but that’s every now and then. If they could just add it each week, I think the exp issue would be alleviate somewhat. There is a food that’ll increase Echo drop rate. I use that whenever I want to farm echos.
I just problem with getting echo exp You can just farm echoes in overworld 😢
lowkey as a day 1 lvl 80 player with 200000 overflow exp, I've never found echo farming annoying or anything even when I was just getting 5 star echos without red bosses, elemental dmg bonus as a main stat would already make it way too easy with a pool of 4 or 5 ish main stats on 3 costs, Kuro already made it much easier than other gacha games by not having to roll into crit rate/dmg multiple times. Even then, scalings on elemental bonus vs atk% aren't very major, with some characters as carlotta even being better with hybrid glacio + atk% because of a certain set bonus. Also I assume that this would also remove healing % etc from certain 4 costs, which invalidates certain builds such as healing % spectro set spectro rover, which I personally use to clear all of the hardest content as a combo enabler thru 'morning aix's slam' + sustain for a double dps quick swap comp. lastly flat stats are also best in slot for some sustains such as shorekeeper, where you need as much hp as possible for a crit dmg follow up set, or queezing as much atk on verina as possible, which wouldn't make sense if it certain stats were to apply only to a certain set. There are a ton more offbuilds that people use utilizing different elemental dmg bonuses with different sets and main stats, not just the standard cr/cd/e%/e%/a%/a% builds. And also can't this idea just make lingering tunes the easiest set in terms of viability? it would just serve as a one size fits all for every character, since it would be switched around easily and to some players there would be no set in farming for a new set if one that can be slapped onto every character is only around ~10% worse on average.
even then getting a bunch of off set echos can help early game with synthesis into the data bank, or it would actually would feel that there are echos that you can "burn" since they are off-set and not viable anyways. Having "discardable" echos, or artifacts in any game help give that satisfaction when getting what you're looking for. Kuro have been nice enough as it, I don't see a reason to complain about the only thing a player would really need to grind for.
echo xp isnt an issue for me anymore its the RNG of the mainstat and substats.
carlottas sig echo should not roll stupid ones like healing recovery i have farmed construct all day for 3 days now and have yet to see a bis IM DYINGGG
that makes echo farming challenging its the same on the other gacha games, where you will not be satisfied as you perfect your rolls as the time goes on.
challenging is fine, but when the only “challenge” is how lucky you get, you start questioning how much of it is actually ‘challenge’ vs kuro being dickheads
@@simulatedaep the thing here is the game also drops free echoes in the overworld but the drop system for 3 cost is 1:4 (not sure of it) maybe making it 1:2 would make players farm echoes at faster pace, its just the frustration building up during echo haunting but the satisfaction it brings when it rolls good is different ahahaha, but your point into flat stats is real and i agree with that.
day 1 f2p player (UL 80) and... I personally have no issues? maybe is because you're stepping into the midgame? and I'm no hardcore farmer or anything; I farmed since release for Carlotta and I have 5 echos with double crits; but idk I feel is mostly because you're at mid game; I could have kinda started agreeing if you mentioned echo exp but you didn't so I assume is not a problem for you (for me neither) so yeah idk, maybe late game feels better overall but not sure, is all based on personal experience in the end :)
wuwa is still a gacha game you will face a wall one way or another that's just how it is, if you ever played any older gacha games stat roles are waayyy worst but I agree on you its bad i think a good solution might be to allow players to recycle echos as exp and allow a way to reroll a stat you dont like.
i have a lot of experience in gacha games (genshin, hsr, epic seven, arknights, nikke, fgo, etc) im aware how bad it is in other games, its still terrible in wuwa, and wuwa is (in)famous (depending on who you ask) for breaking gacha norms (no 50/50 on weapon banner, skip button, not restricting movement to certain characters) so for them to leave this system as complete ass is kinda disappointing
Just because it has historically been bad doesn't mean it has to remain bad, and we aren't mandated to be happy with it
It's carrot on stick and its in every game gacha or not. If you get all you need today then there's nothing for you to do the next day.
this system could easily be fixed just by not making the players wait 2 mintues everytime they defeat a boss i swear
I have farmed multiple sets since 2.0, and have spent a grand total of 0 waveplates on them. RNG is RNG friend.
You guys not farming echos in the overworld? that's kinda pointless to spend waveplates to farm the echos themself, I only use it for mat and what come useable with it is extra. never had a problem with echos but I'm day 1 player level 80 so I don't know about the new player experience. Plus data bank is a good tool to get rid of unusable echos for potentially good ones
only lvl your echos to 10 if they do not have crit or crit damage then stop rolling if it has one great stick it up to 20 and see if it gets the other if it gets both at 10 just level it to 25.
this is a good idea, ive been doing this, but this creates its own problem; youre using more tuners than exp mats (20 tuners for the first 2 main stats, if theyre bad i usually skip) and this has caused some people that ive spoken to to not have enough tuners to continue echo farming, and the same issue with echo exp mats if you do it the other way around, and the only way to get either of these is with waveplates which are very limited
There are other gacha's ( mainly hoyoverse gacha's ) that are worse than this. Farming 4-cost echo's is unlimited and your able to get a lot of 1 cost ones a day (especially with drop food buffs) so going 4-4-1-1-1 on your echo cost slots is a far better way too increase your characters potential as a new player early on. That said if they could merely introduce a way off getting resources as you thrash echo's and those resources allowed too reroll main stats ( or better exchange main stats ) that would make everything a lot better/easier while still requiring players too have long lasting potential because of random substats. I do agree that it is very stupid that an echo from the glacio/spectro ( echo can be farmed for both for example ) set can get fusion, aero etc dmg bonus as main stat. There is no explanation for it in the lore for this and the main stats should only be too roll for the sets the echo is able to be farmed for.
comparing the echo system to the artifact system is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
@@simulatedaep Wow, it was 1 sentence. The very first sentence in fact that did any kind of comparing. And it was meant too highlight that the echo system is already an improvement over other systems before i kicked off talking about the echo system. Don't give me that toxic positivity bs if you couldn't even bother too read the rest :S
@@ronnyrdr6553 i agree with the rest of your comment lol, its just bad to compare it to other games as a response to criticism
and if were talking about useless main stats, the rolls of actual good substats is awful, I have played since launch and only 1 echo had hit max crit rate, I have almost never gotten crit rate above 7% (probably like 10 echoes max).
and to add onto that, with the nightmare echo variants released, all other bosses are basically useless. spent 1000 waveplates for good dreamless, well now the night mare is better. we got a skin for the inferno rider, the nightmare inferno rider is better and doesn't apply the skin.
Honestly the rng is the whole point of the game so I can't rly agree. I mean for the past 5 years since genshin launched (and prbly gotchas before it) the same artifact/relic susbtat systems have been in place where you get constantly get new artifacts to get the least amount of unwanted stats and no one has changed it. The only thing that's changed is how you get those stats. That's the one issue I have with echo's is it cost's an insane amount of materials to upgrade echos and you can't use unwanted echos as recycle material to upgrade other echos like in most other gotchas. As far as the rng goes that's just a fundamental part of gotchas. They give you the game for free they just want you to spend more time playing because every extra minute you play is a minute you could possibly be spending money so they add elements that would take up time. compared to other gotchas the amount of echos/artifacts you can get in a day without refreshing your waveplates/resin is >10x higher in wuwa, but to even the playing field the amount of echos you get that will be potentially useful is very low compared to how many you get. still at max level you can probably only level up one or two echos a day with the amount of upgrade materials you get, but that's relatively the same across all gotchas. I really just wish you could recycle unwanted unleveled echos into materials to upgrade other echos. I understand that you can farm an insane amount of echos per day so the ratio of echos to materials would be pretty strict and harsh, Im just tired of having all these echos and nothing to with them but combining them to make new ones, what does that matter if I can't use them because I can't level them.
comparing the echo system to the artifact system is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
Naa echo farming isn’t bad i just dont like how bosses are limited to 15 tries a week thats the worst part but at database 21 that kinda isn’t an issue that much
I do want to say about the flat stats comment, 50 Flat ATK is actually competitve with DMG Bonus rolls on most characters, so if we're dogging on Flat ATK, we gotta be dogging on DMG Bonus as well.
its not, the lowest atk% roll gives more atk than flat atk
@@simulatedaepAbsolutely. And DMG Bonus gives even less of a dps increase. That's my point. If Flat ATK is an issue, so are all the DMG Bonus stats.
Typical problem for a relatively new player like you. You’re mistaken. Echo/artifact farming in this game is straightforward thanks to the developers; you just need to put in the effort to farm. In contrast, artifact farming in Genshin can take months or even years due to the RNG and resin limitations. However, in WuWa, the process is much faster. With consistent farming, I managed to achieve excellent stats for all five of my DPS in just three months. The RNG on a rolling in this game is much better. Play the game and don't make mistakes like making this video.
Factually speaking, you’re wrong. Artifiacts in Genshin only have 10 possible substats that can be rolled, whereas in Wuwa there are 15 different substats to roll from. Even if you were to remove flat ATK, HP, and Def, which are functionally useless substats in comparison to their % counterparts, you’d still have 12 substats to roll between, which is more than Genshin.
Also, citing your anecdotal experience isn’t a solid refutation. I’ve been playing since launch and got Changli the day she released, and yet my echoes are still not where I want them to be. On the other hand, some people I’ve spoken to simply got lucky and rolled excellent echoes in a single week or less.
Yes, it’s nice that in Wuwa echoes can be farmed by killing enemies in the overworld, whereas in Genshin all 5 star Artifacts must be farmed from Domains. But this ignores the fact that 1. overworld enemies are limited for the day, 2. overworld enemies are not guaranteed to drop your desired sonata set, and 3. overworld enemies are not guaranteed to drop your desired mainstat.
And this isn’t even getting into the echo leveling system. Unlike Genshin, which has both a dedicated Artifact XP item and the ability to use undesired artifacts as fodder to level up your good ones, Wuwa only has dedicated echo XP material which must be farmed using Waveplates. The only echoes that can be used as XP for other echoes are ones that have already been leveled, which in and of itself requires echo XP materials, and the disparity between the fodder echo’s level and the amount of XP it gives to the echo you’re leveling is enough to where even if you’re using already leveled echoes as XP, you’ll still have to use XP mats to fully level the good echo.
This system brings in yet ANOTHER system of RNG, which is the echo merging feature. Merge whatever echoes you don’t want for one absolutely random echo in return. It honestly isn’t very useful. Good for clearing out your echo inventory when it gets full, but that wouldn’t be a factor if you could simply use all those useless echoes as XP for your good ones.
And something that many people like to say is that the game “needs to keep you invested,” and that reworking echoes to make farming less grueling would cause players to “have no reason to continue playing.” That’s something I disagree with for multiple reasons. For one, I’ve spoken to many people who’ve been grinding for good echoes on their characters for months to no avail. Fighting such an uphill battle has done nothing but diminish their desire to play/farm. Second, weekly bosses are limited to 3 collections per week, meaning that it already takes multiple weeks to fully level the skill tree of ONE character. And most people have more than one character that they need to build. Third, even if you were to remove the flat ATK, HP, and Def rolls, you’d still have 12 substats to roll between. That’s more than enough RNG to get through to get people continually farming for good echo rolls.
@@iedb Nah, the RNG in Genshin is quite abysmal. I spend two years grinding that shit out with Ayato and Neuvilette and I got mediocre stats. It only took me about 3 months to get excellent stats in all of my 5 DPS in WuWa. The RNG is much better. Players were complaining of the same thing 1 month after WuWa's release including me. But if you keep on farming those echoes, you'll realize that the RNG is that much better. Seasoned Wuwa players are not complaining now. That's the reason why nobody is talking about it anymore. Play the game before you write down your nonsense essay.
@iedb Factually speaking this is utter bs...
1. The Chance of getting the right element in a goblet in genshin is 0.5%, getting a crit rate helmet 1% try getting that First. Those chances as abyssmal...
2. Yes Just ignore the fact that you need to roll multiple Times in the Same stat to get a usable piece. Don't know how many crit rate/crit dmg artefacts i trashed because all Rolls went to HP/def
3. 13 substats not 15. So genshin has 10 substats over 4 Slots while wuwa has 13 substats over 5 Slots. That is Not even an Argument because it evens itself Out...
@@justplay5016I’ve been playing since launch you nitwit, and have been farming echoes for Changli since the day she released. And yet I still haven’t reached a crit ratio that I’m happy with, and am still stuck around 55/270. As I said, your anecdotal experience farming is a worthless point to make, as I can do the exact same thing with my own experience. And as I mentioned, I can do the same thing with others as well. I’ve spoken to multiple players who’ve also been here since launch who are still farming echoes on characters like Jinhsi and Changli.
I have played both Genshin and Honkai Star Rail, Mihoyo’s current two largest games, a very fair amount. I played Genshin for 3-4 years straight as one of my main games. Genshin’s artifact farming system is admittedly terrible, but just like you, I can simply cite my own anecdotal experience of getting a 60/280 crit ratio on Hu Tao over a year ago after a few months or so of farming to say that “Genshin’s RNG isn’t as terrible.”
Both being bad doesn’t free Wuwa from criticism. People have criticized Genshin’s predatory artifact system for years to no avail, but no one is surprised there as Genshin’s dev team has never been particularly responsive to it’s playerbase’s requests.
Wuwa’s dev team on the other hand has shown that they listen to their players and are open to changing things if players are unhappy. Getting complacent and bending the knee to shitty RNG systems because “well… it was worse for me in other gachas” is counterproductive and will lead to nothing other than players being forced to submit to these gacha games’ RNG systems constantly for the foreseeable future.
@@justplay5016 its still bad bro😭idk how you people arent getting this, it being better than genshin doesnt make it good, for all the reasons i listed out in the video
DUDE... It's a gacha games and guess what ? You need to farm to have what you want. (and in the case you dont know, the echoes you dont need can be fusioned them in data bank). You have only ONE month of play time, let the time spent. Use your waves plates and farm. After that it's you and your luck (like a gacha...)
comparing the echo system to the artifact system (or any gacha game) is quite literally toxic positivity at work, obviously wuwa echo system is better, but its not perfect, there are still major issues with it that i highlighted in the video, its unhealthy for the growth of the game to respond to any criticism about it by comparing it to other, worse games
@@simulatedaep @simulatedaep I much prefer that they keep their community with this system. It’s pretty great and pretty "innovative" compared to other games (because, don’t forget, it’s a gacha, and there’s a lot of psychological research behind it to figure out exactly how to keep players engaged for the longest time, for ultimately pushing them to spend money). Sure, they could improve the echo system, but not in the way you suggested. If they do, the game could completely change little by little without anyone noticing. To end up as a crappy game
PS : I'm F2P since the realese and i have all character, with 5 star weapons. But i drop near the hard Pity. I liked Genshin, now i hate it.
PPS : They realy inprove the system of echoes (compare to 1.0), and i'm sure they will continue. Be patient and never forget you play a gacha game. Not diablo, not world of warcraft and not Warframe...
It’s literally so easy and it’s free
You can still play the entire game with all of the worst rolls you mentioned. You dont need perfectly rolled echos for anything. You ask us what the "benefit" of having those bad rolls are. Well this is a single player adventure game, there's no "benefit" to getting good rolls either, other than a 10% faster clear time. The game isnt forcing you to compete with others on how much damage you can do or how perfect your build is, yet youre so bent on it.
What fixing? Its perfect as it is already. And after 2.0 it got even better lol.
its not perfect bro did you even watch the video
main stats have too many variables, they should remove the elemental dmg bonuses in 3 cost echoes and make it like elemental dmg bonus or attribute dmg bonus bc it makes no sense to give a havoc dmg bonus in a glacio set. those flat stats are also kinda mid, I don't even think giving 50 flat atk would make any difference. making 4 cost DPS echoes have main stats of defense, hp, and healing bonus is a crime and should only be put onto shit like rejuvenating sets and such. it costs way too much to tune and level echoes (leveling in general is expensive)
fire yourube video bro
thank you bor❤
This video is 100% a bait. Half the points made have no real reason behind them apart from you just not liking how the system works yourself. i watched this because i was interested in seeing what this was about, but it ended up just being a what i don't like video. Playing Wuthering Waves vs other games with systems like it. HSR-Genshin-ZZZ you could use as examples they have much lower odds then WuWa and also you cant farm drops from the open world. no one is telling you to spend your waveplates on echos. As for your ATK rant idk about that. late game player an i find that having ATK% vs ATK to be a very small difference from testing an if anything you try roll Flat ATK an also ATK% on the same roll
@@ltsAvos this comment wreaks of “i didnt watch the video” i literally gave the real reasoning behind my points you moron😭😭😭
@@ltsAvos ok here bro let me break it down for you, the amount of rng when it comes to echo farming is objectively bad, flat rolls are useless, they only bloat the stat pool, it makes 0 sense to be able to get fusion dmg bonus on a glacio damage bonus set, like i said, just bloating the stat pool and adding more POINTLESS rng
@@simulatedaep If you could get perfect echos instantly what would be the point in farming for echos. its not a pointless mechanic as it adds a grind to the late game an something to work for. if your a UL lvl 80 player an have a fully maxed character 90 with lvl 90 weapon you grind echos. but lets say you just get given the perfect set an you have perfect rolls. then youd have no point in playing the game until new content drops. the reason behind it is late game people have something to do if you wanna. Lower Ul players just see it as pointless due to the fact they struggle i suppose. sure its a little annoying at time an how long you have to farm but thats the whole point. it gives you something to work for each day an if you don't wanna grind echos in the open world they give an option to quick farm in the tacets. but in the end if you dont like a game with rng maybe dont play a gacha game in the first place idk 😀
@@simulatedaep btw watched 5 minutes from your bad video then decided to make a comment due to your poor excuses behind why you don't like the system an how you hate rng an want everything to be perfect. but i suppose "i didn't watch the video" complain more before getting your facts it might help
@@ltsAvosYea man I think this man is rage baiting or haven played other gacha game and I think he is not even data bank level 20
welcome to gacha games
Bro needs to play genshin
Meh I get my ecohs from open world it took like 3 days to fully gear my new character and another day of nightmare farming to get those echos. Huge problems is leveling all that crap cuz mats are still very few specialy in new region it becomes super hard with rerolling echos. They need to give more or increse amount cuz full days stamina is not enough to get one eco to 25+ exp.
@@mazer322 you are the luckiest man alive
Echo farming is a non issue, just go out there and grind. You can do it ENDLESSLY. Its a single player game! Why are you rushing?
you literally cannot do it endlessly, youre limited by your exp mats, which is limited by your waveplates
Honestly man there are so many other games that are so much worse. Part of playing a gacha game is RNG. If it bothers you this much i reccommened you play a different kind of game and avoid gachas.
hahaha
Dude wants to play a kindergarden version of the game. Want a really bad rng? Go play Genshin.
@@tomekpiatek88 this is quite literally just toxic positivity at work, just because it could be worse doesnt mean its bad, and removing at least some of the rng wouldnt make it a “kindergarten version”
@simulatedaep It would be boring and unnecessary. There are morphable echoes as rewards in events, also echoes come in abundance after some time of playing the game. There is enough to pick up a good build pretty much passively. Also the build doesn't need to be perfect if You don't commit to it. Don't expect to get a perfect build in the first week for free. The system is quite good. Otherwise everyone would have the same build and it's not fun. Play the game and use what You have is enough to clear content. Want super optimized biuld, then grind for it.