Their partnership was to create a longer lasting battery chemistry. CATL has gone out on their own to create an entirely different swap standard that is not partnered, but is a direct competitor to the Nio battery swapping standard.
@ ahhhh I see, I think their is still high possibility that tomorrow we see Firefly models join that CATL standard, makes no sense for them to build up and scale another version of swap station that uses inferior batteries to the rest of the NIO/Onvo family.
@ The CATL battery technologies are totally incompatible with what firefly is developed on. Chocoseb batts are not compatible. And inferior batteries? Have you actually looked at the performance of these batteries from CATL?
@@stefankulkowski3192 I see Nio as being stubborn and continue to build their own BS for Firefly also. I hope I am wrong, but I kind of lost hope in how Nio management takes decisions. It looks to me like all their partnerships will amount to nothing, no one knows what goes on behind the scenes, this company lacks transparency, 80% of the information you get on Nio is based on rumors and weibo posts only.
@@mitzaBeatz what I don’t think a lot of the bag holders are considering here is that partner participation in the swap network is a huge component to profitability models with future swap expansion plans. This is a total game changer and I think any discounted cash flow models have been completely blown up by this. The industry has spoken with 10 models currently under development.
If Firefly can use these swap stations we are golden. Nio needs to focus on ramping up vehicle sales and not be distracted with building a whole new network just for firefly. Fingers crossed for some good news about this on Nio day.
They can’t it is an entirely different architecture. The battery technologies are totally incompatible between the two. Even if you could fit a CATL Chocoseb battery into a firefly it would not work. If Firefly was compatible, you would’ve seen it on the list of 10 models CATL listed yesterday.
@@BenG-r2k I dont recall any specific details about the battery swap capabilities of the Firefly model being disclosed. NIO’s new Firefly car is designed to be compatible with battery swapping technology, which is a key feature of NIO’s EV strategy. CATL’s Chocoseb battery is part of their battery swapping system, and it is likely that NIO’s Firefly will be able to use these batteries, given the collaboration between NIO and CATL on battery technologies. Furthermore, CATL cant announce the firefly model ahead of Nio so I am still hopeful.
Too all the scared investors here. No matter if CATL is a battery swap competitor now. Just remember that this confirms battery swapping is the way to go! Also, when CATL has 1000 stations end of next year, Nio will already have 4000 - 5000 stations by then. Nio has battery swapping partners with 3 of the largest EV makers.
Plus people seem to forget there are dozens of different gas station owners. Bp, Shell, Chevron etc etc....not just 1. Battery swap will be universal. This is confirmation we've backed the right horse..game on!
Where CATL said that Nio is one of the partner? CATL has officially announced collaborations with Changan, GAC, BAIC, Wuling, and FAW. Ten battery swap models were jointly launched at the conference and will be marketed starting at the end of this year.
Battery technology is still evolving and NIO needs to take a leadership role in standardization. Otherwise battery swapping will become chaotic and waste of battery making resources. More collaboration needed for battery swapping. Profits from battery swapping? That's looking iffy.
CATL is also part of NIO battery assets management company, so it must not hurt itself own interest. In short. So there is no issue with Nio but there is one other issue here. Mr wanting views to get that TH-cam revenue. No quality content
Mr P , can you elaborate more on Neo decision to allow their patents to be used by CATL . How much money will Neo receive and how will it work. Should we be worried about our investment
@@sennaha I am taking the dry powder. I had set aside to buy. Nio and will be waiting for the IPO of. CATL on the Hong Kong exchange. Once the underwriters are allowed to sell their shares after the lockup period and the price settles, I will be a big buyer
Difference between CATL and NIo , NIO is a car company. CATL is a battery company. If I am a competitor of NIO cars, I would be worried to have their battery swapping technologies in my car.
If CATL is using NIO tech for their swap platform then this validates the NIO model and will only expand the usage of battery swap on a standardized platform.
Competition is imminent. Nio is not gonna take the whole battery swapping stations. It does not matter which company has more stations now. What matters is which company is able to keep up the pace. Competition is always necessary. Service and functionality will make the difference. No more moat for NIO, but this is still a big business. It's important to secure a big piece of the pie.
Sounds like NIO is a proprietary platform where CATL is able to assimilate to multi-brand vehicles. Sounds like Apple vs Microsoft. Not so sure if proprietary is the way to go. For instance, If BYD goes with CATL's swap platform, does this undercut NIO? Just trying to sort out pros and cons.
It’s really the only way to turn a profit in the swap segment of the industry. CATL can concentrate on their core competency of battery chemistry and battery design. The automobile manufacturers who participate with them can continue to concentrate on their competency of designing models that the consumer likes. Specifically the 10 models are already liked by the consumer now they will simply add a swapping option. If you follow Chinese social media you can clearly see there are a lot of consumers who like the idea of swapping, but by the time Nio releases a car they choose not to buy it either because of aesthetics or internal cockpit technologies like a small screen
@@roryfitzpatrick5273 I have been a huge fan of this company since 2015. I was a little late buying off the bottom at $4.77 but I recognized it was a Covid pump and sold it at $50 on the way down in February 2022. I have patiently waited to take a long position, but after this CATL development I have decided to take my Nio dry powder and wait for the CATL Hong Kong exchange post IPO and will invest in them. I am a huge believer in battery swap, but believe long-term CATL will be the monster. Nio wasted way too much time on stupid pet projects. Had they gone directly to Onvo after the Covid bail out they would already long since have been profitable even with the same swap station build out. At that point, I don’t believe CATL would have chosen to compete with Nio, but rather partner with swap technology. CATL and their automobile partners both see what a lot of us see that Nio is floundering with mind numbing mistake after mind numbing mistake
Agree for battery model adoption, then it’s up to Nio to make better car and sell it in this crazy maker completion… but saying that Nio is going to make money from CATL patent are you 100% sure? lol
So their swapping stations compatible with Nio and their partners future cars? Will that make Nios swapping stations obsolete if they aren’t? It’s not good for Nio if no one else is using Nios swapping stations. I’m starting to think there won’t be any non Nio branded cars they will likely go with the competitor CATL might even offer discounts on the most important part the battery. Think about that they go to the car company and say hey if you adopt our system we will produce our batteries at a discount how would Nio deal with that? No one else finds it a bit unsettling that none of these partners have a Nio battery swapping car yet? This is good news in that it reaffirms swapping but that does not mean it’s good news for Nio.
@@FuzzyAason perpetual bag holders with rose colored glasses will find a way to deny the obvious. so glad I held off on buying shares. Sold in February 2021 and waited and waited, but I’m not sure I’ll ever buy it again at this point.
Considering third-quarter net income deteriorated $100m YoY and near term total liabilities rocketed up to 8.1 billion probably a lot less than they are forecasting
I know bag holders must be thrilled sitting here today after 10 years, knowing that the brilliant CEO has a Nio race car team, a winery in France and a line of clothing and food. What a clown show of wasted time and silly distractions. Now CATL stole the show while William is stumbling around with his head in the clouds, telling himself how great he is
i don't get it why they dont do a car where can use they own swap.... stupid ... going with CATL is WRong ... and Nio Swap will go down .. and all swaps they build now for nothing ? is Not a good think , it not mean they in control means they loosing control
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now people will wake up and understand my hate for nios ceo..hes terrible..waste time and money and has nothing to show..ceo is truly incompetent.. the patent money will never make up for business loss
because NIO SEO is sleeping. why no one want to work with nio swap . why ...is there something we don't know. they shou free the patent . and work with others. probably nio is greedy and don't give them a good deal even they dont make money only the news could jump the marke. but no Nio SEO do nothink ...
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Putting a positive spin on this news this really could allow NIO to move Onvo and Firefly over to the CATL swap stations and create a more exclusive feel to NIO as only they can use their swap stations. Hopefully I am not clutching at straws 😂
That is really dangerous for NIO because CATL has enough money to put them out of business see the rental for there batteries way cheaper than NIO it seems to me as an NIO investor that I will lose a lot of Money 😢
Nio is now competing head to head against a company that is run by a true seasoned professional. Checkers versus 3-D chess. Nio partners are hot air, but CATL is the real deal. The proof is in the pudding because the auto manufacturers are telling you who they believe is going to be the winner they have already committed to 10 models. “Nio the swap moat!”😂
But their infrastructure size is nothing compared to Nio's. The moment CATL has 1000 battery stations, Nio already will have 4000-5000 stations. Too little, too late.
@@Poofi3_841 For now. Stop defending Nio blindly. If they have nothing to do with CATL's plan to build 10k swap stations, then its a bad sign for us. Everyone will choose CATL, Nio will remain in a closed up environment. 10 models commited for CATL, we only have rumors of one partner doing winter tests. The only hope left for Nio is to deliver as much as they can and turn profitable on their own. Its time we stop blindly defending the company after they messed up so many times.
Dude, NIO doesn't own and never did exclusive rights to the battery swapping technology. I said before that if BYD ever decided that battery swapping stations were economical, they would start building their own. Why would they pay royalties to NIO? That would be nuts. But I don't think that will happen because BYD just came out with a battery that charges from 0%-80% in about 8 minutes, and it will only get better/faster/safer in the future.
@edfritz1569 It means absolutely nothing because it is designed to do only the NIO brand and some Onvo, depending on battery swapping station generation (no Firefly, which is crazy). It is like saying 7- Eleven has like 13,000 gas stations in the US, so no one else should build gas stations.If there is money in it, others will build them too.
Swap is useless for nio can't even compete with xpeng and xiaomi.nio rnd free phone and free swap give free to catl .do nio dare to ask money from catl .catl can dnt supply nio battery and nio go bankrupt.
Battery Swap model validated. Battery swap will eventually be standardized in China.
This is a good thing.
Nio is doing fine.
Well said!
The market just needs to digest that indeed
Nio literally partnered with CATL last February this is a good thing
Their partnership was to create a longer lasting battery chemistry. CATL has gone out on their own to create an entirely different swap standard that is not partnered, but is a direct competitor to the Nio battery swapping standard.
@ ahhhh I see, I think their is still high possibility that tomorrow we see Firefly models join that CATL standard, makes no sense for them to build up and scale another version of swap station that uses inferior batteries to the rest of the NIO/Onvo family.
@ The CATL battery technologies are totally incompatible with what firefly is developed on. Chocoseb batts are not compatible. And inferior batteries? Have you actually looked at the performance of these batteries from CATL?
@@stefankulkowski3192 I see Nio as being stubborn and continue to build their own BS for Firefly also. I hope I am wrong, but I kind of lost hope in how Nio management takes decisions. It looks to me like all their partnerships will amount to nothing, no one knows what goes on behind the scenes, this company lacks transparency, 80% of the information you get on Nio is based on rumors and weibo posts only.
@@mitzaBeatz what I don’t think a lot of the bag holders are considering here is that partner participation in the swap network is a huge component to profitability models with future swap expansion plans. This is a total game changer and I think any discounted cash flow models have been completely blown up by this. The industry has spoken with 10 models currently under development.
NIO should use CATL battery swap station for its FireFly cars; CATL would have to pay the cost of building those battery swap stations
Shorts are toast: "Nio and CATL won't be competing in the short term". you can read this in a Chinese article.
NIO should make swap stations drop locations for Alibaba and Temu. Speed up their profitability asap!
If Firefly can use these swap stations we are golden. Nio needs to focus on ramping up vehicle sales and not be distracted with building a whole new network just for firefly. Fingers crossed for some good news about this on Nio day.
They can’t it is an entirely different architecture. The battery technologies are totally incompatible between the two. Even if you could fit a CATL Chocoseb battery into a firefly it would not work. If Firefly was compatible, you would’ve seen it on the list of 10 models CATL listed yesterday.
@@BenG-r2k I dont recall any specific details about the battery swap capabilities of the Firefly model being disclosed. NIO’s new Firefly car is designed to be compatible with battery swapping technology, which is a key feature of NIO’s EV strategy. CATL’s Chocoseb battery is part of their battery swapping system, and it is likely that NIO’s Firefly will be able to use these batteries, given the collaboration between NIO and CATL on battery technologies. Furthermore, CATL cant announce the firefly model ahead of Nio so I am still hopeful.
Think about how long it took them to build all the swap stations. It’ll be years before CATL has them built
Go NIO!!
keep pumping out those NIO videos Mr. P!!!!
10 models in the next decade, you said it yourself, in that time NIO will also have other models...
Too all the scared investors here. No matter if CATL is a battery swap competitor now. Just remember that this confirms battery swapping is the way to go! Also, when CATL has 1000 stations end of next year, Nio will already have 4000 - 5000 stations by then. Nio has battery swapping partners with 3 of the largest EV makers.
Plus people seem to forget there are dozens of different gas station owners. Bp, Shell, Chevron etc etc....not just 1.
Battery swap will be universal.
This is confirmation we've backed the right horse..game on!
@RockStockStar indeed. Well said!
Byd next
So remember, battery swapping is NIO's "MOAT". Well, that is gone. Good news every day 😂😂.
Did the swap stations disappear
This means Nio needs to make the best car. Competition is healthy. Do or die for Nio.
Where CATL said that Nio is one of the partner? CATL has officially announced collaborations with Changan, GAC, BAIC, Wuling, and FAW. Ten battery swap models were jointly launched at the conference and will be marketed starting at the end of this year.
Battery technology is still evolving and NIO needs to take a leadership role in standardization. Otherwise battery swapping will become chaotic and waste of battery making resources.
More collaboration needed for battery swapping.
Profits from battery swapping? That's looking iffy.
Maybe Firefly will be in this eco system swappable?
CATL is also part of NIO battery assets management company, so it must not hurt itself own interest. In short. So there is no issue with Nio but there is one other issue here. Mr wanting views to get that TH-cam revenue. No quality content
Mr P , can you elaborate more on Neo decision to allow their patents to be used by CATL . How much money will Neo receive and how will it work. Should we be worried about our investment
If firefly will use catl swap station that will be great win for NIO
Firefly is based on a completely different architecture. The batteries are incompatible from CATL
I'm sadly done.
@@sennaha I am taking the dry powder. I had set aside to buy. Nio and will be waiting for the IPO of. CATL on the Hong Kong exchange. Once the underwriters are allowed to sell their shares after the lockup period and the price settles, I will be a big buyer
Difference between CATL and NIo , NIO is a car company. CATL is a battery company. If I am a competitor of NIO cars, I would be worried to have their battery swapping technologies in my car.
If CATL is using NIO tech for their swap platform then this validates the NIO model and will only expand the usage of battery swap on a standardized platform.
Is CATL swap battery size/hing compatible to NIO's? If so, CATL EV can swap in NIO swap station but with lower priority than NIO's EV.
Competition is imminent. Nio is not gonna take the whole battery swapping stations. It does not matter which company has more stations now. What matters is which company is able to keep up the pace. Competition is always necessary. Service and functionality will make the difference. No more moat for NIO, but this is still a big business. It's important to secure a big piece of the pie.
Sounds like NIO is a proprietary platform where CATL is able to assimilate to multi-brand vehicles. Sounds like Apple vs Microsoft. Not so sure if proprietary is the way to go. For instance, If BYD goes with CATL's swap platform, does this undercut NIO? Just trying to sort out pros and cons.
It’s really the only way to turn a profit in the swap segment of the industry. CATL can concentrate on their core competency of battery chemistry and battery design. The automobile manufacturers who participate with them can continue to concentrate on their competency of designing models that the consumer likes. Specifically the 10 models are already liked by the consumer now they will simply add a swapping option. If you follow Chinese social media you can clearly see there are a lot of consumers who like the idea of swapping, but by the time Nio releases a car they choose not to buy it either because of aesthetics or internal cockpit technologies like a small screen
@@BenG-r2kAs a NIO stockholder, I hope NIO is not painting itself into a corner with a proprietary swap model.
@@roryfitzpatrick5273 I have been a huge fan of this company since 2015. I was a little late buying off the bottom at $4.77 but I recognized it was a Covid pump and sold it at $50 on the way down in February 2022. I have patiently waited to take a long position, but after this CATL development I have decided to take my Nio dry powder and wait for the CATL Hong Kong exchange post IPO and will invest in them. I am a huge believer in battery swap, but believe long-term CATL will be the monster. Nio wasted way too much time on stupid pet projects. Had they gone directly to Onvo after the Covid bail out they would already long since have been profitable even with the same swap station build out. At that point, I don’t believe CATL would have chosen to compete with Nio, but rather partner with swap technology. CATL and their automobile partners both see what a lot of us see that Nio is floundering with mind numbing mistake after mind numbing mistake
Agree for battery model adoption, then it’s up to Nio to make better car and sell it in this crazy maker completion… but saying that Nio is going to make money from CATL patent are you 100% sure? lol
I am not sure how many batteries will be available for swap in CATL swap stations for 10 different car models. That might be a problem.
All those cars/models are standardized (same battery specs).
Problem? It’s design genius from CATL in point of fact, it addresses the absolute lunacy of the firefly debacle needing its own swap network.
So their swapping stations compatible with Nio and their partners future cars? Will that make Nios swapping stations obsolete if they aren’t? It’s not good for Nio if no one else is using Nios swapping stations.
I’m starting to think there won’t be any non Nio branded cars they will likely go with the competitor CATL might even offer discounts on the most important part the battery. Think about that they go to the car company and say hey if you adopt our system we will produce our batteries at a discount how would Nio deal with that? No one else finds it a bit unsettling that none of these partners have a Nio battery swapping car yet?
This is good news in that it reaffirms swapping but that does not mean it’s good news for Nio.
Are they going to work with Nio on the standardization? It could be bullish unless... they decided to go on their own.
No, it’s completely different all around. Chocoseb cells are completely incompatible with NIO
@BenG-r2k then I think this is not actually good news for us :(
@@FuzzyAason perpetual bag holders with rose colored glasses will find a way to deny the obvious. so glad I held off on buying shares. Sold in February 2021 and waited and waited, but I’m not sure I’ll ever buy it again at this point.
Why should NIO has to sign with CATL without any benefit?
Very BULLISH on NIO now!!!! This EXCELLENT news for NIO
The problem with NIO is Mr P is always reviewing leaked information while others are tight lipped
Great! The incompetence of NIO marketing and sales leadership!
Nio only has 2,744 swap station how many will nio have end of 2026🤔
Considering third-quarter net income deteriorated $100m YoY and near term total liabilities rocketed up to 8.1 billion probably a lot less than they are forecasting
@@BenG-r2k🤡🤡🤡
@ 😍😍😍
More than 2800 swap stations, you are bit behind.
They have 2800 plus since yesterday and they are aiming to add 200 stations in December alone. At the end of 2025 Nio wants to have 5k -4k stations
I know bag holders must be thrilled sitting here today after 10 years, knowing that the brilliant CEO has a Nio race car team, a winery in France and a line of clothing and food. What a clown show of wasted time and silly distractions. Now CATL stole the show while William is stumbling around with his head in the clouds, telling himself how great he is
Relax
i don't get it why they dont do a car where can use they own swap.... stupid ... going with CATL is WRong ... and Nio Swap will go down .. and all swaps they build now for nothing ? is Not a good think , it not mean they in control means they loosing control
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The Pie is big enough. You really confuse things. I can't listen to a full video from you.
That’s what happened when Nio waste resources to make phones, 3D glasses, etc that has little to no benefits to the core business.
now people will wake up and understand my hate for nios ceo..hes terrible..waste time and money and has nothing to show..ceo is truly incompetent.. the patent money will never make up for business loss
because NIO SEO is sleeping. why no one want to work with nio swap . why ...is there something we don't know. they shou free the patent . and work with others. probably nio is greedy and don't give them a good deal even they dont make money only the news could jump the marke. but no Nio SEO do nothink ...
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Putting a positive spin on this news this really could allow NIO to move Onvo and Firefly over to the CATL swap stations and create a more exclusive feel to NIO as only they can use their swap stations.
Hopefully I am not clutching at straws 😂
I think your anti $NIO Mr P your last few videos have been very negative towards $NIO
That is really dangerous for NIO because CATL has enough money to put them out of business see the rental for there batteries way cheaper than NIO it seems to me as an NIO investor that I will lose a lot of Money 😢
🤡🤡🤡
That’s what happens when you have a competent CEO! NIO is doomed to always be late to the party …. Sad -> AGAIN
Nio is now competing head to head against a company that is run by a true seasoned professional. Checkers versus 3-D chess. Nio partners are hot air, but CATL is the real deal. The proof is in the pudding because the auto manufacturers are telling you who they believe is going to be the winner they have already committed to 10 models. “Nio the swap moat!”😂
But their infrastructure size is nothing compared to Nio's. The moment CATL has 1000 battery stations, Nio already will have 4000-5000 stations. Too little, too late.
@@Poofi3_841people are completely ignorant. CATL’s latest news is positive for NIO and yet they are turning this news into negative.
😂
@@Poofi3_841 For now. Stop defending Nio blindly. If they have nothing to do with CATL's plan to build 10k swap stations, then its a bad sign for us. Everyone will choose CATL, Nio will remain in a closed up environment. 10 models commited for CATL, we only have rumors of one partner doing winter tests. The only hope left for Nio is to deliver as much as they can and turn profitable on their own. Its time we stop blindly defending the company after they messed up so many times.
CATL and NIO are partners, CATL owns 25% shares of NIO Energy.
RIP NIO 😭
🤡🤡🤡
😂
Jeez, who was responsable for the fire fly design? Its a box with wheels.how can you destroy a company do fast?
Sound like Nio is not gonna get pay by CATL
Dude, NIO doesn't own and never did exclusive rights to the battery swapping technology. I said before that if BYD ever decided that battery swapping stations were economical, they would start building their own. Why would they pay royalties to NIO? That would be nuts. But I don't think that will happen because BYD just came out with a battery that charges from 0%-80% in about 8 minutes, and it will only get better/faster/safer in the future.
Nio has the biggest swapping infrastructure
@edfritz1569 It means absolutely nothing because it is designed to do only the NIO brand and some Onvo, depending on battery swapping station generation (no Firefly, which is crazy). It is like saying 7- Eleven has like 13,000 gas stations in the US, so no one else should build gas stations.If there is money in it, others will build them too.
NIOs share price so far doesn’t reflect NIO day this Saturday. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bankruptcy soon 🎉🎉🎉
🤡🤡🤡
stock is down 95%.....what a waste of my $$$$
Get out of Nio now, did Nio not even protect its intellectual property rights 😅
Nio killer!
Oh really?
🤡🤡🤡
Swap is useless for nio can't even compete with xpeng and xiaomi.nio rnd free phone and free swap give free to catl .do nio dare to ask money from catl .catl can dnt supply nio battery and nio go bankrupt.
Think about how long it took them to build all the swap stations. It’ll be years before CATL has them built