Combo Trials and The Fight To Remain Relevant
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
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Fighting Game Glossary: glossary.infil... - เกม
2:45 counterpoint: bad combo is better than no combo
While you could say "it's gonna give players bad habits if they practice unoptimal combos",
a) some won't want to take the game that seriously, and
b) it leaves a good taste in players mouths before they dive deeper
Ey i think they are rlly good in strive because of the filters and it being community focused but its not as satisfying (personally) than making your own combo.
Everywhere else im not sure
@@Panzerfaust234 I feel like Strive just kinda lets you have your own version of combos without it absolutely gutting your gameplay. Sure you can optimize more, but it isn't *that* big of a deal here other than potentially losing out on some set play, and I've found that you can come up with your own versions often times and they work just as well as the "standard" setups but maybe less damage or more expensive meter wise etc.
Uni's trials were made before the first home release by taking the standard bnbs seen in arcade and putting them in the game. So while out dated in several ways the reason the combos are actually good especially in older versions of the game is because they were created by community and curated by developers.
As somebody who tends to get pretty far on mostly mind games, I’d say combos don’t even get all that important until mid-high level play when you absolutely have to put your opponent down in 2-3 touches.
I don’t even want to admit how many people jabbed me to death in Tekken before I knew what I was doing.
I probably also have some of the sloppiest combos you’ll see on floor 8 in GG but I still made it there
I'm Celestial in Strive and all I do is poke into basic confirm or strike/throw. It's all about the mind games and controlling neutral, combos are useless if you get no opportunity to use them. Just learn a really basic BnB and use it whenever you can, you don't need flashy stuff
@@МирославКръстев-с7и As a Yoshimitsu main, I need to leave some room for flash 😏
@@МирославКръстев-с7и learn Oki situation, learn mixup, learn punish, apply pressure 😅
Counterpoint: combos fun
@@christophobia6415 yeah but there are too many people at low ranks who know full strings but can’t stop themselves from getting poked to death. Combos fun, combos important, combos not as important as the game makes a new player think they are
I think too many people place importance on combo trials as a teaching tool when they were really just meant to be a fun singleplayer challenge. That’s also why the REALLY HARD trials exist, to ensure that players have something to chew on. I’d also say that they do improve your general execution, both for your character of choice and even the genre as a whole.
WAIT THEY PUT ACTUAL COMBO TRAILS IN STRIVE??? I THOUGHT IT WAS STILL JUST THE GOD DAMN COMBO RECEPIES!!
They always had those combo trials their mixed in with the other tutorials
There needs to be an extra catagory of strive custom combo trial called Twitter
Games should both have the blazblue/undernight style combo trials for a challenge/achievements and the strive online one.
Combo trials is my favorite things to do in fighting games.
I hate the fact there isn't a proper combo trial in strive. I hate searching for combos and not feeling satisfied by a completed list. I only use it in bread and butter combo videos that share their codes.
Si that's good but please give me a proper combo list in season 4
(Wait strive has a combo trial? Like a proper one made by the devs?)
I think for players, the guilty gear strive combo trial uploader should be adopted by everyone. Discord servers should link good ones and dustloop should have them too. TH-cam character guides should also have links for combos in their about sections. If you depend on just the game's browser, it's truly terrible. Filled with spam and repeated combos over and over again.
dustloop does have them, though, a lot of the combos for strive have a code attached to them (at least in my experience).
Here is my take on combo trials
They should serve as a good template on which to build off on. BBTAG as an example, has their trials intentionally be easier, but leaves room to experiment and optimize, either through good meter use or even assist. BBCF even kind of does this very idea, where they offer a set combo list, and the "advanced tiers" are just the same with more added on to get you more damage/positional advantage/teaching how Rapids work, etc etc
Trials should never be your go-to, but serve as a guideline of what to expect to do with that character
Really did help me find out some things. Even though all I do is fish for grab as I am the worst type of player. I play Adachi.
I dont know about the rest of them but i remember playing Persona 4 Arena ultimax for the first time. I went to Elizabeth and started doing her trials. Within a few hours i could make up combos off stray hits on the fly becasue they taught me combo theory. Eventually i went on to find more optimal combos but the combo trials were a big help and taught me how her stuff came together.
Revelator's Sol combo trials taugjt me enough of how to play as him that I hit his dust loop ToD against a real player my first day of owning it. It was in person, too -- he was experienced enough that he knew with his burst already gone to just set down the controller
"When a fighting game furst coums out..." the northener within you jumped out for a second😂
Nothing about the way he said that is abnormal in any way
@@lynx4082??? did I imply the way he said it was abnormal?
What about the Blazblue Combo trials? They have genuine bnbs, and do the same thing the Under Night ones do. They expand on each numbered combo, via Normal Hard and Expert difficulty expansions.
Genuinely at this point, I just do combo trials when I pick up a new game just to see if it'll get the combo theory in my head and for free in game money. I'll give it to until the hard combos to let it set in before going to Dustloop or Miizumi as usually they don't do a good job at that. Some BlazBlue trials are so drastically different than what people have found and it's kinda sad.
You must check the "Combo Factory" mode in the "Pocket Bravary" indie fighting game. It is a pretty cool fresh way to discover which combo is possible without needing to actually execute it
Basically a lego-like combo trial maker 🔥
Honestly i never understood combo trials, i just learned all my ggst combo’s by beating the ever living hell out of my friends (in game). When playing against friends i have the room to experiment without playing against people who are better (open park players are always like level 1000 plus) and I don’t lose my floors. Combo trials told me combo’s but then when i got in game I would either not find the opportunity to use them or i would forget them.
I feel like the biggest issue is context, the are so many variables that go into combo choice that a trial can't really account for.
KOF13 is actually a great example of this. Someone playing Kyo as their anchor will need different combos than someone who plays Kyo on point. But most characters aren't this well rounded. Kula is almost always best on point, so her more expensive routes don't see much use.
Once you get into an actual match optimal means so much more than max damage, and this is pretty much impossible for devs to account for.
I think I noticed a part of the video where you might have missed saying something around 9:32 you sounded like you were going to say where the more optimal combos were being posted but didn't. Which Im guessing would be places like TH-cam. Regardless, Great video as always!
yt, community discords, sites like Dustloop
I would say a huge problem with combo trials is on the dev's part: they are so one-and-done. If a game has six trials, those are the ONLY six. The trial modes do not get adjusted over time except for when there's a patch that fundamentally changes how moves can be combo'd. By the time XrdRev1 came out, the trials were overhauled with a collection of new (but still simple) combos, some of which actually show a little bit of the character's full combo theory.
The point is that I would like devs to change the trials after a certain period of time (not just after a patch) once they saw what players were able to perform, while adding more. I don't even expect them to do it often. Hell, I'm surprised Arcsys didn't just say "cool combos, guys. We decided to add a few of them to the Mission Mode!" I would even ask the same of French Bread, even though their trials are already insanely good teaching tools.
What if they take the combo replaced system from strive and do with Street fighter 5 did and add more combos per season to keep the characters updated. to do this they will use the most popular combos from the replay system and add them to the game as the new set of trials so you can see how other players and the most popular moves for a character is done and how some more extraneous combos can be done.
I think most combo trials suffer either from being too simplistic and easy or too difficult and situational. We need more trials like UNI and BBCF (the later trials at least) where they teach you real BnBs you're actually going to use in a match. The devs of GGST obviously knew Slayer could do backhit Pilebunker, because so many of his moves (such as 2S) are made to lead into it and it's his main way of extending combos, but they specifically choose not to put that in the trials. KOF is actually a great example of both extremes of bad combo trials, KOF 13 has extremely situational, full resource dump combos that are very long, impossible to ever use in a match and really hard. On the other hand. KOF 15 has only 5 trials for each character and they're all extremely simplistic and unoptimal (there's a Rock combo trial that does light Hard Edge into Climax despite heavy Hard Edge having a longer cancel window and doing more damage, using heavy Hard Edge both makes that trial more damaging and easier to preform. The trials are literally just being stupid.)
Combo maker in Strive is a great concept, with better UX the feature could be more adopted by the playerbase pretty quickly
better filters, unification of equal combos, not stage dependent combos, ask for players to re-do the combos on newer patches and and use it to help on the search filters, and lots more of stuff to improve usage
whats cool about sol is doing slightly different combos and combo ender based on screen position, gravity scaling, and optimising damage with a damaged wall
i think you absolutely have a point strives worst offense IS the focus on older combos in the algorithm, ESPECIALLY since they have changed move properties a lot over the course of the game, which render some combos unusable
but what strive does to make it even worse, is make you play on a outdated version of the game itself, so when you attempt to use it in a actual match it just doesnt work, and you have little to no reason why, because it DOES and WILL STILL work in the trial itself, forever, which would be INSANELY frustrating
i know “play on newest version” is a option but it’s very likely someone will miss it since it blends in a bit from the other pause menu options, especially if they’re newer to the game, which is why it’s so much worse.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that saw the issue with the 3rd Slayer trial! lmao
I know nothing about slayer, what’s wrong with it?
@@stonebbq5474 The combo requires you to use his 100 Tension super, but only gives you 50.
@@invisiblewater790 thanks!
5:14 Not even days. I remember Slayer's day 1 release, and people -ALREADY- had found otk's lol
tbh these days i see combo Trial as Just a way to teaching you some gatlings and i think it's fine
you wouldn't usually use them so Just go with the flow
Combos aint worth a$$ if you are shite at the game
Can we fix the discord link
uni mentioned, good vid
With strive, i just grab the first created combo because like 9 times out of 10, you just find the EXACT same stuff
And as a 3d player, its about the same, combo trials teach unoptimal basics, get you familiarized with common key combo moves, the only thing is that largely you can use almost any button/move in a 2d combo, but for 3d fighters, there is a decent half of any characters movelist that you should basically never use/attempt in your combo
Huh my favorite FF14 creator makes Fighting game content.....I had to.
I mainly use it when learning a new character. It helps me understand what links into what and make combos from there.
I think skullgirls is up there for this. It teaches you combos then teaches you how to make gour own on the fly
Dustloop has codes for Strive on most of their combos from what I've seen.
They should let us sort custom combos by hits and damage numbers
hey thats me in the first 10 seconds of the video i won audience retention roulette
Combo trials suck for learning, they only work as optional challenging content.
Ive played so many fighting games but ive felt like ive never pulled off a combo
The great launcher in fighting games is a perfect electric.
Isn’t Tekken close to doing this? Their way of teaching you combos are good.
the slayer last horizon trial is common knowledge, sorry
i love the trials, but only as a challenge like sf4
Season 3 theme reviews when 😮🤌
Whens the character theme meaning video
I feel like most combo trial combos only focus on looking cool and often require too many resources for it to even work, a specific starter, be in a certain part of the stage and all these other factors that while still being cool, its not gonna win you many games.
They could make combo trials like first showing you the specific character's moves, how moves can link into each other and then they give you a task like "do a 8 hit combo" its not telling you to do a specific combo, but more encouraging you to use what they just told you to come up with your own combo, and even if that combo is bad, it still encourages the player to try to find more optimal ways to do combos instead of doing the full meter, full resource, full burst, specific starter corner only combo most combo trials give you
Reminds me of P4AU trial 25. Do +9000 damage, do a 100 hit combo, do a specific move 3 times in one combo (or if your a shadow probably closer to 8+. Basically just saying "we gave you the tools and knowledge, now use it"
Only gripes with those combos trials is some of them don't really make you use one more burst which I feel is important yo teach. Especially if you expect the to complete trial 25
@@CantHandleThis6 i remember doing those, those actually felt rewarding since the whole combo trial was basically preparing you for that task and its really fun to figure out
0:51 Dandy Brofist!
XD
If you begin you dont need a good combo you need A combo. So yea combo trials shouldnt put in optimal combos
5:35 can anyone explain what's wrong with this combo?
The super you're supposed to do requires 100% of your meter but the combo trial only gives you 50%
@@samogburn2662yes and it still counts as a win even if you do the other super