"What do you mean fighting games are a real thing and not just a twitter discourse?" Is the new "what do you mean overwatch is a videogame and not just pørn?"
"I must not Engage in Discourse. Discourse is the mind-killer. Discourse is the little death that brings total annoyance. I will face my need to Engage in the Discourse. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. (...) When the need to Engage in Discourse has gone then it will be nothing. Only I will remain."
@@yaboytony3028 The original is a prayer from Dune. It goes: “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
"The biggest enemy to fighting games is fighting game players who won't shut the fuck up about how hard they are to play or how bad the new player experience is when they aren't even paying attention to it." As an RTS fan, this hurt my soul
And the funny thing is, it’s the intermediate lvl is hella bad and kinda hard to get out of. And I think that’s why they’re crying how hard fighting games are.
I remember back during the Brood War era where everyone was talking about how insanely hard it was to get into competitive Starcraft and how you need to have 200 APM or whatever and your macro needs to be blah blah and if you don't have 2 expos by whatever and I basically just never gave it a shot because of that. Really a self-fulfilling prophecy in that sense when for most of us it didn't have to be more complicated than 'build mass BCs'
i saw a reply to PhixDX when he venting about backseaters telling him to anti-air that said "My advice to Cammy players struggling with Gief is to use your projectile to keep them away and[...]" not everyone on social is a real person
There's very little that gets me excited like hearing something click inside the mind of a new fighting game player. Hearing the shift in their tone like "Oh my God everything makes sense now." when they find out something that's second nature to us is the hardest drug I should need a prescription for.
every twitter fanbase gotta bring out the "my series is better than your series" discourse once a week like we're back on the middle school playground. If you ever find yourself unlucky enough to end up on anime twitter its just "One piece is better than Boruto, imagine being a fan of that dogshit couldnt be me. Bleach diffs them both One Piece fans keep eating that slop." or some variation of that until the end of time
@@Arassar or an adult who never matured past 10 because all you do is farm points online. That's why mine is adblocked on both sides. No trending, no notifications, no "you should look at this" just artists I'm following. Literally nothing else. I am happy. C:
It's because both of these spaces house a lot of socially stunted people which are disconnected from reality to the point they think it matters beyond basic discourse. When you have no life everything is life or death
@@mastermoose8390 The series is directly inspired by KOF a fighting game The core game play consist of you fighting an opponent The game features characters that fit in Fighting game *specific* archetypes like zoners, rush downs, grabbers, puppet, the (game even has infinites lmao) I guess splatoon isn’t a third person shooter because you shoot inc instead of bullets 🤷♂️
Smash is very clearly a subgenre of fighting game like 2D and 3D fighting games, saying otherwise is trolling. Though the community is a separate thing from the FGC as a whole. They have different origins and were completely unrelated for a long time, basically until Evo 2013.
"The FGC are natural enemies! Like Guilty Gear and Street Fighter Or Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter Or King of Fighters and Street Fighter Or Street Fighter and other Street Fighters, damn Street Fighters, they ruined Street Fighter!!" "You Street Fighters sure are a contentious people." "You've just made an enemy FOR LIFE!!!"
I only saw snippets of it from his youtube, didn't realize the twitter explosion would ripple so far :D Also though, Coney must consider engaging on twitter part of his job, that looked miserable to me but seems like he had a great time.
I can't imagine being a new fighting game player in front of a live audience. I got annoyed when one guy at a local saw me on training mode and tried telling me what to do, assuming I was doing something totally different from what I was practicing. Having 2000 of that guy typing at me while I'm trying to get used to the game sounds miserable
Lol 8:25 is so true. The amount of times i start to type out a response to utter nonsense only to delete it because i realize it'll just lead to some unproductive and braincell-killing dialog is crazy
People like Sajam and Max Dood and Phidx, etc are the content creators who get the likes of people like my fiend and I to finally play a fighting game seriously for the first time in the year of our lord and saviour, 2024 (we play T7, T8). We've been making memes, drawing our faves, making funny edits and montages while passing match clips back and forth like a couple of housewives trading cookie recipes. Genuinely making some of the best memories ever. The rest is for the bees.
As a new player to SFV, I hit LK->buffered Tastu->super on my friend who was an old head, in casuals, and he did a double-take I don't even PLAY FGs anymore and I'm STILL riding that high Being new is fun
this is what people mean when they say "thank you for being a happy person mr sajam, we value you greatly." i dont think there is anyone out there who wouldn't want their kids to grow up and be like this man.
The Slam is so much fun because watching the videos the teams made, specifically Brian_F really leaning into each one's strengths like Doki's complete reliance on instincts, Eskay flipflopping between mains, Koe being the more experienced one but taking Ls and learning and the coach doing his best with his own skill gap. It's so endearing and fun to watch it's something that makes me understand regular sports fans cos I'm really in there cheering for my favourites.
The Slam isn't even a good example of the bad new player experience because everyone has a fucking coach. You can learn anything with a pro coach, a commitment to a future event in your calendar and multiple work weeks freely available.
Frankly, this too is part of the learning experience in fighting games: first you learn how to play the game, then you learn to ignore the glue-drinkers in chat who have clearly never touched the game before in their life
Ngl this is a problem in every gaming community. Theres a bunch of people who rightfully don't have an audience, who try to make up for it by backseating anyone they think needs their help.
Twitter isn't the fgc. The people who are in online lobbies and tournanents whenever they can, trying to get better in the games they play are the fgc.
THANK YOU. Someone out here having some sense to them to realize these fools on Twitter having all these repetitive arguments are just posers who aren’t really about being in this community. They don’t care about improving or community building, they just want to yap all day about nonsense.
It's funny that anyone would use Sajam Slams as example of anything general on any direction, as most beginners don't get personalized coaching from some of the best players in the world, or get thrown into a peer group of other players. (Though the latter is slightly more realistic to get, but even it takes a lots of effort)
This video made me feel happy I don't need a Twitter account for my job. There's all this crap going on on that platform that has no impact on my life and I don't even know it's there.
Fighting games are hard to learn, just like literally everything else. One can’t hop onto LoL and immediately know what to do, one can’t just pick up a guitar and play wonderwall, and don’t even get me started on TFT Learning new shit is difficult. People stick to comfort super often so no wonder “learning” your 12th fps isn’t gonna be as difficult as picking up a new genre for the first time. Y’all just gotta learn how to separate your ego from your progress. You will be shit when you start something new, and that is fine.
Thing is you can just never sit to learn how to play on lol, most of my friends who also play it just played in a call with other friends until they eventually learned enough to play it, same with other team games. But Fgs being a 1v1 makes so eventually they drop it or never grasp their interest, hope 2XKO fix that. Games like TFT or Smash bross are mostly 1 vs all but there are multiple people not a 1v1, way easier for general players to get into and play with friends.
@@GS_CCC That seems like a preference thing, not a difficulty thing. People won’t put much effort into learning something that they don’t enjoy, so naturally the learning process will be worse. To me it seems they just don’t like fighting games, and that’s fine, they aren’t made for everyone. Point is, the claim that they are more difficult to learn doesn’t hold weight, if you don’t like them you won’t like the process, and if you do like them, you’ll struggle like most everyone else does when learning a new skill. Fighting games don’t have a special sauce that magically makes them harder to pick up, they are just different from what many are used to.
@@shmooters5599 yeah, FGs aren't that much different than other genres if the person wants to actively learn it, in some cases I'd say its way easier to get decent on it. but it lacks the the passive learning that other multiplayer games have, its harder to learn without trying to learn since it lacks the team aspect of other games. I have a friends who likes to talk about tekken, played a lot of singleplayer, loves the character and mashing vs bots but just refuses to learn how to play it properly or go online, he is the type to play 1k+ matches of games and always suck at it since he does not care about improving, he mostly plays with a friend or more on discord. even if he gets bodied in rocket league or plays badly in league/valorant he stills wins a lot of the time and has his fun. recently I tried deadlock, I can't aim, got half the gold the rest of my team and still won playing with a friend, he does not need to give me a lesson 1v1 or give tips while I get bodied online, its just a more inviting way more casuals who just started to stick with the game without active effort to learn. they do lack the special sauce that makes them easier to get into called teams
@@GS_CCCexactly, yeah, learning other games is fun, learning fgs is homework You can make other games homework if you want to, yeah but with fgs its gonna be at least extremely more slow lol Fgs may be not harder to learn than other genres but they sure as fuck are less fun
@@Permafrost1if you don’t like it then yeah, when i started learning fighting games with my first real one being DBFZ. my ass was so excited to just be able to do a kamehameha. and for a counter point about FG’s just being less fun to learn. trying to learn how to play apex and just walking around for 20 minutes doing nothing but getting loot only to be sniped and die immediately made me feel like i just wasted my time and somehow still get top 10 because everyone else kills each other while i did nothing and died. that was not fun AT ALL. but that’s how you learn apex, unless you have friends to teach you which can also be said for FG’s.
I have a private playlist called "Society" where I save videos addressing really annoying but serious societal norms with nice explanations to go with them. This video falls under that category.
I'll tell you why this stupid discourse persists. It's because they don't know how to play fighting games, don't want to learn how to play fighting games, but _do_ want to feel like they have a justifiable excuse for why they don't play the genre that's more than just "They don't interest me" or "I'm more comfortable playing FPS/MOBA games."
That's true to some extent, but a large portion of this negativity is coming from fighting game players specifically, lol. Like Sajam said, they only play fighting games and are using that bias to drive silly ego battles.
In any other game I have never been like “hell yeah” to myself in a room by myself than landing a difficult thing I a real match in a fighting game. It’s literally why I play and lab these games. It’s crazy that anyone would dispute that.
What if instead of the fighting game community it was the freaky game community and we could teach everyone how to be freaky idk but that sounds pretty chill
It is not enough believe that your game is superior to another, you must also prove that liking the game you dislike is a sign of moral and intellectual decay.
As someone who has played FPS (UT99 and CStrike) and RTS (AoE2) competitively many, many years ago, I can definitely say fighting games are far easier to learn if for no other reason than everything that's important is all on one screen. No information is being hidden from any other player, and you can watch any single replay or stream to get the full picture to both learn and enjoy.
I am starting to become convinced that the reason why fighting games have a hard time bringing on new people isn’t because of the games being hard or inaccessible. It’s because the online FGC community is about 80% miserable people that only care about devaluing your achievements
I like playing competitive PvP games: MOBAs, Shooters (arena, hero) and Fighting games. IMO, Fighting games are the “most well rounded” in terms of fun gameplay, positive community, watchability of esports and welcoming to new players. The “only FGC” players don’t know how good they have it. I think the only thing the genre really lacks is long term novelty in gameplay loops. The roster is only so big and in most games the arena layout have no impact on the fight so the gameplay loop can “feel stale” more quickly
Kids dont understand how crazy mortal kombat was. We had news reporting on the game, it was like the first "controversial" game. It was probably the biggest and first intro to fighting games alot of Americans had.
@@Rebazar I still have my genesis MK1 cartridge that doesn't have an ESRB rating on it. The outrage over the game having a bit of pixelated gore was insane at the time. Forget just thinking about fighting games because MK is one of the most influential games on the course of the entire industry period. It may not be the sole game that led to the creation of the ESRB, but it is the most memorable one and was the point where the government basically said "You either regulate yourself, or we're going to do it for you." After MK, we had ESRB ratings, and developers began designing their games around them. In a way, MK's legacy has touched every game that has come out in the past 3 decades in at least a minor way.
Dude YES i've been teaching SF6 to some friends and I started to realize how unbelievable frustrating is the negativity *some* ppl have. To the point I was asking myself if teaching them FG's was even worth it.
Wow, I had no idea any of this negativity existed. Sounds like something from another dimension. In my experience watching some of the streams and clips, it was all positive. People are laughing getting excited and having fun and learning the game very quickly. I am convinced those negative people weren't watching.
When i was a kid when xbox live first came out i got cvs2 i want to be good so bad but it was so hard i couldnt do ANYTHING. A guy named calipower said dont quit kid let me show you some stuff..he helped me. Found out 15 yrs later who the heck he was..thanks alex..the only reason i remember his gtag was because i had power in my name and people use to make fun of it lol but this guy had power in his name and was super cool. Be more like calipower ppl dont put people down..
As someone who grew up playing fighting games and getting good at them, ive gotten burned out of playing them a few years ago but I'm trynna get back into it. I love seeing new people trying fighting games and getting good at them.
the entire event is great but i especially love watching the brand new players in each slam learning something, practicing it, and losing their minds when they do it when their coach is watching. the excitement, the joy, and the healthy amount of pride in accomplishing something is so good. hook it to my veins
This made me realize that I want a fighting game "Big 3" beef with Harada and Daisuke releasing diss tracks. Harada would use old Tekken songs for beats, while Daisuke is writing new songs and recording with a live band. Michael Murray tries to contain Harada while MajinObama translates for those not weeb enough to follow Japanese sites live, still trying to make Waffle House DLC happen, all culminating in a first to ten in Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown in a special episode of Harada's Bar. Social media is worthless if we cannot make this happen.
its great because this discourse happened because someone posted an astro bot screenshot of the fighting game characters. thats it. the whole website exploded because someone thought it was cute that there were three popular fighting game characters in that game.
Damn, I thought the Sajam Slam was going to be good for showing how much easier it is to learn the games then what people say. Alot of the players looked great considering 1 week of play
I'm either having a fever dream or I did indeed remember AnimeIlluminati Jiyuna making a video talking about how the worst thing about rivalries or "beef" in the FGC is the fans making it weird and ruining it. Conclusion: people on X ruin everything for everyone else.
Sajam you always bring common sense to the kids table that is Twitter. Thank you for being a voice of reason amidst the voices of chaos (Twitter again)
I'm glad to see a creator talk about this. I've had this since I started learning FGs a few years ago. People ask you what you play and then instantly shit on the game and how hard it is to learn and how the mechanics are bad and how it's a watered down version of an older game. Most of the people I saw saying this stuff was long time FG players who don't even know what the new player experience is like since they just skip learning the basics cause they already played other FGs before. I've seen a lot of this with 2XKO playtest recently with long time FG players shitting on the new player experience which, at the time wasn't even really implemented, and talk about how LoL was easier to learn than 2XKO and how they've been playing LoL for 6+ years. Most of these people have either forgotten how bad it was to learn a MOBA or are still at a bellow avg skill rating cause they never learned the concepts of the game fully after years cause the game itself never explains them. Just let people have fun. There are iron 4 players on LoL that only play the game to have fun. They barely understand what the game is about. Leave them be.
Ngl, I stopped going to my only local because there was always this one loud, obnoxious dude that showed up, set up a steam deck playing XX and complained for 4 hours about how bullshit SF6 was. Any opinion about the new games (SF6 and T8) was quickly brushed aside cause there was so much bullshit in these games, you should just play 3S, but "you know, 3S also has some stupid shit". As a new player to SF6, it just felt horrible sitting there enjoying my Juri combos, and I went back to online because of it. Fuck these people.
As someone who is regularly forced to interact with normies (by which I mean 30-50 year olds) in my daily life (pray for me plz), if you mention fighting games to them, the literal only image that will flash in their minds is Street Fighter 2. The whole 90's gag of SFII having a million updated releases is still a relevant joke to these people. Its one step removed from someone's parents still calling every game console they see "nintendo".
The Slams got me into playing fighting games and even other genres more :) I used to not pick up FPS or Fighting games purely because I've been a MOBA player and figured I'd be bad and have no fun in anything else which couldn't have been further from the truth cus I'm having a blast
America: Tekken is not in the top 3! Europe: Which FG's are in the top 3 behind Tekken? Korea/Pakistan: Wait! There are other FG's than Tekken? Non Tekken FGC: They play FG's in Pakistan?
I don’t even mean this in a toxic way… but I’m confused. Does Sajam believe that the slam, in which a twitch streamer with infinite free time is paired with a literal professional player Coach is in anyway representative of the average new fighting game player experience?!
I don't think so, I can be incorrect on this, but what I get from this video is that they (Twitter) is using clips of these streamers getting momentarily frustrated, or using the fact that they're getting coached by experts but are still capable of malding as somehow an indicative of how bad the new player experience is etc etc, that's probably a few of the points that are used but idk, I'm not masochistic enough to redownload Twitter. personally if what I get from this video is correct them mfs with that kind take is pretty goofy imo, and I'll just assume that those people have never tried learning literally any other game or skill set where they have zero experience in.
PhiDX is a high level Tekken player, he plays fighting games and he was losing his mind at the people in chat being like “erm actually cammy can anti air that with djdhshudebsu”
I was watching Lilypichu over the weekend pre-glove and it was so strange seeing so many people in chat be like "oh I dont find leverless 360's hard" or "It's easier than stick". Its like commenting on her input struggles brought people out of the woodworks to gloat about how good they are it was so strange
When you showed the tweet of how Slam players are real fighting gamers by rehashing old arguments, it reminded me after it was all done, Lily started talking about how her boyfriend only plays Smash, and she said it was a fun party game to just play with friends. The chat, including myself, blew the fuck up because we couldn't believe she said the thing. It was so funny seeing her try to backpedal. It's true that it's fun to play in that setting, but it's also true that Melee, specifically, is really fucking sick. The people who say Smash isn't a fighting game are like those who say card packs aren't loot boxes; they're the same thing, they just function slightly differently.
They have achieved nirvana. They have broken the cycle of death and rebirth, and achieved enlightenment. The only thing they endure is the slight piss smell of the toilet the laptop is sitting in, they are otherwise in pure serenity.
Get em Sajam. I love fighting games and when I start not enjoying a particular fighting game, I move on to a different game or genre. Then I come back. It's not hard
y'all *really* gotta learn when trans girls are semi-shitposting. the fact that I *immediately* knew just from looking at that post there was certainly an unstated asterisk that said don't take this seriously w/o context, yet nobody else wanted to at least give her the benefit of the doubt is wild, but nowhere near surprising to me. literally, if you just looked at the following tweets you'd understand where she was coming from. but instead, a bunch of shitty people turned her relatively harmless tweet into an excuse to attack her entire existence. that right there is enough to give at least some space to her statement, b/c the FGC absolutely needs to learn how to be a safer place for ALL PLAYERS to enjoy themselves. everybody isn't an asshole, and the internet doesn't explicitly represent every fgc player, but how many ppl came to at least shut down the transphobia that is summoned the moment a trans girl mentions bridget in a positive light? fwiw I do think that mk's ***current*** cultural relevance, among ppl who weren't born in the 90s, is up for discussion. dbfz was many ppl's first fg, and MANY of those ppl went on to play gg strive. a lot more ppl decided to play later, or come back to it, b/c bridget was added to the game. bridget has always been a hella popular character, internationally, and always will be. I think she gets to be in the conversation, at minimum, as an honorable mention alongside the other super recognizable characters like guile, scorpion, and others.
To be fair Bridgets character turn is so fumbled that it drove fans of the character insane I don’t think anyone cared when that one wrestler Charscter in grand blue was trans besides other trans people liking them
The uh... big real life moments of the previous decade definitively proved, that there is literally no such thing as "an opinion too stupid". I'm personally done attempting to detect sarcasm or giving benefits of doubt. Don't say dumb shit, don't face dumb consequences. As for Bridget's popularity - maybe she'll be iconic enough in the next generation or the one after, but as it currently stands I don't think you can show her to non-gamer 40-60 year olds and expect them to go "yeah she's familiar".
Yeah like I thought it was extremely obvious that she was joking. People are just ready to sink their teeth into anyone who looks like a slightly acceptable target and trans girls already get enough harrasment as is.
@@doctordice2doctordice210 It only "drove fans of the character insane" because they got incubated into anti-trans online hate circles that pretend we're taking their femboys away, there is no reason to take that response seriously
@@FluoriteRhodochrosite That’s a decent amount of em (because political grifters will literally jump on anything they see without a second thought) but there’s also a really serious discussion about transgenderism and gender nonconformity that sort of made the character umm “development” disheartening for many of her fans A discussion I don’t feel comfortable talking about here because, these sort of conversations don’t match the vibe of a sajam vid lol
When we replacing "will it kill" with "will you laugh"
FGC's funniest home videos
Beat me to it lol
Alllriightyy theeen chatroom
will it funny
Ok. But using clips of someone playing the game instead of an actual meme made to make you laugh gets an immediate disqualification
There is no Big 3. There is no Big 2. There is only the Big One: Ultra Fight Da Kyanta 2.
Dong Dong Never Die is a close one
Truuuuuuuue. Kyanta is the one true game.
I love the story mode
I truly enjoy watching the FGC. Its like a reality TV show where everyone does everything except play fighting games.
Shit! You might be right! I'm not a fighting game player and i'm watching.🤯
I joined the FGC to asks for nerfs and argue about the same things on repeat, sir. Not to do that "play" you talk about.
"What do you mean fighting games are a real thing and not just a twitter discourse?"
Is the new "what do you mean overwatch is a videogame and not just pørn?"
Ever since I've stopped using Twitter I've become completely blind to fgc discourse outside videos like this, and I am extremely thankful for it.
The real move is never having twitter in the first place. It's always been cancerous
Same and I love it. So many stupid takes
Every twitter discourse about GGStrive always ends up at culture wars and Bridget lmao
@@megashockx twitter people are such losers lol
@@spidersonic0110 you’ve become unburdened 😌
The F in fgc does stand for fighting after all
Shit you might be right
Fighting the Game Community
"F"ighting "G"ame dis"C"ourse
It's not called the Friend Game Community.
And the "C" doesn't stand for community.
"I must not Engage in Discourse. Discourse is the mind-killer.
Discourse is the little death that brings total annoyance.
I will face my need to Engage in the Discourse. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
(...)
When the need to Engage in Discourse has gone then it will be nothing.
Only I will remain."
1. Fire holy shit.
2. This seems familar as hell. Whats the original?
@@yaboytony3028 The original is a prayer from Dune. It goes:
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
@@pedroscoponi4905 Thank you! It seemed so familar! I forgot how raw that prayer is
@@yaboytony3028 It's called the Litany Against Fear in context of the Dune universe if anyone needs to easily remember it.
This videos really cool and all, but I’m more interested in your opinion on skill based matchmaking
"The biggest enemy to fighting games is fighting game players who won't shut the fuck up about how hard they are to play or how bad the new player experience is when they aren't even paying attention to it."
As an RTS fan, this hurt my soul
And the funny thing is, it’s the intermediate lvl is hella bad and kinda hard to get out of. And I think that’s why they’re crying how hard fighting games are.
AND I WON'T STOP, FUCK FIGHTING GAMES
God I feel this so bad.
great video on RTS's btw. got me back into AoE 2👍
I remember back during the Brood War era where everyone was talking about how insanely hard it was to get into competitive Starcraft and how you need to have 200 APM or whatever and your macro needs to be blah blah and if you don't have 2 expos by whatever and I basically just never gave it a shot because of that. Really a self-fulfilling prophecy in that sense when for most of us it didn't have to be more complicated than 'build mass BCs'
i saw a reply to PhixDX when he venting about backseaters telling him to anti-air that said
"My advice to Cammy players struggling with Gief is to use your projectile to keep them away and[...]"
not everyone on social is a real person
That's so funny
I will never forget that youtube commenter that was convinced Command grabs beat JP's OD counter
I can’t believe putin is funding chatbots to destabilise the fgc
@@AdderflailI don't even know where you get that kind of misinformation 😂😂
Ain't no way lmaoooo
There's very little that gets me excited like hearing something click inside the mind of a new fighting game player. Hearing the shift in their tone like "Oh my God everything makes sense now." when they find out something that's second nature to us is the hardest drug I should need a prescription for.
You’re so right and you should say it
every twitter fanbase gotta bring out the "my series is better than your series" discourse once a week like we're back on the middle school playground. If you ever find yourself unlucky enough to end up on anime twitter its just "One piece is better than Boruto, imagine being a fan of that dogshit couldnt be me. Bleach diffs them both One Piece fans keep eating that slop." or some variation of that until the end of time
Basically “My dad can beat up your dad.”
That's all you have to worry about when you're a kid and don't have a life or a job
Tribalist mentality lives nice and strong on social media era, of course
@@Arassar or an adult who never matured past 10 because all you do is farm points online.
That's why mine is adblocked on both sides.
No trending, no notifications, no "you should look at this" just artists I'm following. Literally nothing else.
I am happy. C:
It's because both of these spaces house a lot of socially stunted people which are disconnected from reality to the point they think it matters beyond basic discourse. When you have no life everything is life or death
The amount of Big 3 takes that were dancing around Smash and not mentioning Smash was hilarious.
It’s probably the “not a real fighting game “ bs
It’s literally not though???
@@mastermoose8390
The series is directly inspired by KOF a fighting game
The core game play consist of you fighting an opponent
The game features characters that fit in Fighting game *specific* archetypes like zoners, rush downs, grabbers, puppet, the (game even has infinites lmao)
I guess splatoon isn’t a third person shooter because you shoot inc instead of bullets 🤷♂️
Smash is very clearly a subgenre of fighting game like 2D and 3D fighting games, saying otherwise is trolling.
Though the community is a separate thing from the FGC as a whole. They have different origins and were completely unrelated for a long time, basically until Evo 2013.
"The FGC are natural enemies!
Like Guilty Gear and Street Fighter
Or Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter
Or King of Fighters and Street Fighter
Or Street Fighter and other Street Fighters, damn Street Fighters, they ruined Street Fighter!!"
"You Street Fighters sure are a contentious people."
"You've just made an enemy FOR LIFE!!!"
This feels like a Futurama bit
@@SlayaBEE It's from the Simpsons.
@@SalvadorDolbyvsZAWARUDO I was very close lol
The Coney Sonic discourse was a frag grenade on the mental of the entire FGC.
What happened with that?
I only saw snippets of it from his youtube, didn't realize the twitter explosion would ripple so far :D
Also though, Coney must consider engaging on twitter part of his job, that looked miserable to me but seems like he had a great time.
I didn't think the consequences would be so colossal
coney himself doesn’t help the FGC as a whole with his constant bullshit
I can't imagine being a new fighting game player in front of a live audience. I got annoyed when one guy at a local saw me on training mode and tried telling me what to do, assuming I was doing something totally different from what I was practicing. Having 2000 of that guy typing at me while I'm trying to get used to the game sounds miserable
Lol 8:25 is so true. The amount of times i start to type out a response to utter nonsense only to delete it because i realize it'll just lead to some unproductive and braincell-killing dialog is crazy
People like Sajam and Max Dood and Phidx, etc are the content creators who get the likes of people like my fiend and I to finally play a fighting game seriously for the first time in the year of our lord and saviour, 2024 (we play T7, T8). We've been making memes, drawing our faves, making funny edits and montages while passing match clips back and forth like a couple of housewives trading cookie recipes. Genuinely making some of the best memories ever.
The rest is for the bees.
As a new player to SFV, I hit LK->buffered Tastu->super on my friend who was an old head, in casuals, and he did a double-take
I don't even PLAY FGs anymore and I'm STILL riding that high
Being new is fun
Sajam making the same youtube videos infinite money glitch
this is what people mean when they say "thank you for being a happy person mr sajam, we value you greatly."
i dont think there is anyone out there who wouldn't want their kids to grow up and be like this man.
The Slam is so much fun because watching the videos the teams made, specifically Brian_F really leaning into each one's strengths like Doki's complete reliance on instincts, Eskay flipflopping between mains, Koe being the more experienced one but taking Ls and learning and the coach doing his best with his own skill gap.
It's so endearing and fun to watch it's something that makes me understand regular sports fans cos I'm really in there cheering for my favourites.
The Slam isn't even a good example of the bad new player experience because everyone has a fucking coach. You can learn anything with a pro coach, a commitment to a future event in your calendar and multiple work weeks freely available.
Frankly, this too is part of the learning experience in fighting games: first you learn how to play the game, then you learn to ignore the glue-drinkers in chat who have clearly never touched the game before in their life
Ngl this is a problem in every gaming community. Theres a bunch of people who rightfully don't have an audience, who try to make up for it by backseating anyone they think needs their help.
Twitter isn't the fgc. The people who are in online lobbies and tournanents whenever they can, trying to get better in the games they play are the fgc.
THANK YOU. Someone out here having some sense to them to realize these fools on Twitter having all these repetitive arguments are just posers who aren’t really about being in this community.
They don’t care about improving or community building, they just want to yap all day about nonsense.
I've been playing fighting games all weekend and didn't hear shit thank God I deleted Twitter
People aren't so rude at my weekly. 😂
Fr a lot of mfs on twitter barely even play lmao too busy spamming nonsense
I'm pretty sure ppl who tweet more than 12 times a day don't even play the game they talk about
Anyone who is on the verge of uninstalling Twitter, listen to me: uninstall it.
It's funny that anyone would use Sajam Slams as example of anything general on any direction, as most beginners don't get personalized coaching from some of the best players in the world, or get thrown into a peer group of other players. (Though the latter is slightly more realistic to get, but even it takes a lots of effort)
We went from the Fighting Game Community to the Fighting Game Community Fighting the Fighting Game Community
This video made me feel happy I don't need a Twitter account for my job. There's all this crap going on on that platform that has no impact on my life and I don't even know it's there.
Fighting games are hard to learn, just like literally everything else.
One can’t hop onto LoL and immediately know what to do, one can’t just pick up a guitar and play wonderwall, and don’t even get me started on TFT
Learning new shit is difficult. People stick to comfort super often so no wonder “learning” your 12th fps isn’t gonna be as difficult as picking up a new genre for the first time.
Y’all just gotta learn how to separate your ego from your progress. You will be shit when you start something new, and that is fine.
Thing is you can just never sit to learn how to play on lol, most of my friends who also play it just played in a call with other friends until they eventually learned enough to play it, same with other team games.
But Fgs being a 1v1 makes so eventually they drop it or never grasp their interest, hope 2XKO fix that.
Games like TFT or Smash bross are mostly 1 vs all but there are multiple people not a 1v1, way easier for general players to get into and play with friends.
@@GS_CCC That seems like a preference thing, not a difficulty thing. People won’t put much effort into learning something that they don’t enjoy, so naturally the learning process will be worse. To me it seems they just don’t like fighting games, and that’s fine, they aren’t made for everyone.
Point is, the claim that they are more difficult to learn doesn’t hold weight, if you don’t like them you won’t like the process, and if you do like them, you’ll struggle like most everyone else does when learning a new skill. Fighting games don’t have a special sauce that magically makes them harder to pick up, they are just different from what many are used to.
@@shmooters5599 yeah, FGs aren't that much different than other genres if the person wants to actively learn it, in some cases I'd say its way easier to get decent on it.
but it lacks the the passive learning that other multiplayer games have, its harder to learn without trying to learn since it lacks the team aspect of other games.
I have a friends who likes to talk about tekken, played a lot of singleplayer, loves the character and mashing vs bots but just refuses to learn how to play it properly or go online, he is the type to play 1k+ matches of games and always suck at it since he does not care about improving, he mostly plays with a friend or more on discord.
even if he gets bodied in rocket league or plays badly in league/valorant he stills wins a lot of the time and has his fun.
recently I tried deadlock, I can't aim, got half the gold the rest of my team and still won playing with a friend, he does not need to give me a lesson 1v1 or give tips while I get bodied online, its just a more inviting way more casuals who just started to stick with the game without active effort to learn.
they do lack the special sauce that makes them easier to get into called teams
@@GS_CCCexactly, yeah, learning other games is fun, learning fgs is homework
You can make other games homework if you want to, yeah but with fgs its gonna be at least extremely more slow lol
Fgs may be not harder to learn than other genres but they sure as fuck are less fun
@@Permafrost1if you don’t like it then yeah, when i started learning fighting games with my first real one being DBFZ. my ass was so excited to just be able to do a kamehameha.
and for a counter point about FG’s just being less fun to learn. trying to learn how to play apex and just walking around for 20 minutes doing nothing but getting loot only to be sniped and die immediately made me feel like i just wasted my time and somehow still get top 10 because everyone else kills each other while i did nothing and died. that was not fun AT ALL. but that’s how you learn apex, unless you have friends to teach you which can also be said for FG’s.
"America's Funniest Home Videos" with the worldwide FGC Crew? Yeah i think I can get down with that.
I have a private playlist called "Society" where I save videos addressing really annoying but serious societal norms with nice explanations to go with them. This video falls under that category.
The amount of damage that the Big 3 and “Bridget more impactful than MK” Discourse have caused cannot be overstated
Thank you Sajam for being angry and trying to hold your audience accountable, even if it might not work out.
I cannot get enough of sajam looking and pointing into the camera shouting "you!"
People addicted to FGC discourse more than playing their games.
All these fighting games and people decide to throw hands on Twitter
Maybe if all the people who cry about fgs on twitter actually played them, fgs wouldn't be on life support
I'll tell you why this stupid discourse persists. It's because they don't know how to play fighting games, don't want to learn how to play fighting games, but _do_ want to feel like they have a justifiable excuse for why they don't play the genre that's more than just "They don't interest me" or "I'm more comfortable playing FPS/MOBA games."
That's true to some extent, but a large portion of this negativity is coming from fighting game players specifically, lol.
Like Sajam said, they only play fighting games and are using that bias to drive silly ego battles.
In any other game I have never been like “hell yeah” to myself in a room by myself than landing a difficult thing I a real match in a fighting game. It’s literally why I play and lab these games. It’s crazy that anyone would dispute that.
What if instead of the fighting game community it was the freaky game community and we could teach everyone how to be freaky idk but that sounds pretty chill
Sajam with the classic "y'all got me fucked up" energy. Tell em
It is not enough believe that your game is superior to another, you must also prove that liking the game you dislike is a sign of moral and intellectual decay.
He's so fed up and i'm here for it.
Sajam, when will you realize that the *fighting game community* likes to *fight*
Bait used to be believable smh my head
Shaking my head while you shake your head head
As someone who has played FPS (UT99 and CStrike) and RTS (AoE2) competitively many, many years ago, I can definitely say fighting games are far easier to learn if for no other reason than everything that's important is all on one screen. No information is being hidden from any other player, and you can watch any single replay or stream to get the full picture to both learn and enjoy.
fgc on social media be like:
hate the fgc it's just the same discourse every week
one local or major later:
me with the bestie !!!
“And I’m someone who knows about sticking a nose in somewhere.” Sajam 2024
I am starting to become convinced that the reason why fighting games have a hard time bringing on new people isn’t because of the games being hard or inaccessible. It’s because the online FGC community is about 80% miserable people that only care about devaluing your achievements
I like playing competitive PvP games: MOBAs, Shooters (arena, hero) and Fighting games.
IMO, Fighting games are the “most well rounded” in terms of fun gameplay, positive community, watchability of esports and welcoming to new players.
The “only FGC” players don’t know how good they have it.
I think the only thing the genre really lacks is long term novelty in gameplay loops. The roster is only so big and in most games the arena layout have no impact on the fight so the gameplay loop can “feel stale” more quickly
Kids dont understand how crazy mortal kombat was. We had news reporting on the game, it was like the first "controversial" game. It was probably the biggest and first intro to fighting games alot of Americans had.
MK1 singlehandedly lead to the ESRB
@@Rebazar this is Night Trap erasure.
@@Rebazar I still have my genesis MK1 cartridge that doesn't have an ESRB rating on it. The outrage over the game having a bit of pixelated gore was insane at the time. Forget just thinking about fighting games because MK is one of the most influential games on the course of the entire industry period. It may not be the sole game that led to the creation of the ESRB, but it is the most memorable one and was the point where the government basically said "You either regulate yourself, or we're going to do it for you." After MK, we had ESRB ratings, and developers began designing their games around them. In a way, MK's legacy has touched every game that has come out in the past 3 decades in at least a minor way.
@@TheStillsLP what is a night trap erasure? Im kinda dumb..
Dude YES i've been teaching SF6 to some friends and I started to realize how unbelievable frustrating is the negativity *some* ppl have. To the point I was asking myself if teaching them FG's was even worth it.
You know, culture war and grifters existed not only to FGC especially. Its all an internet thing anyway
This videos really cool and all, but I’m more interested in your opinion on neutral skips
Wow, I had no idea any of this negativity existed. Sounds like something from another dimension. In my experience watching some of the streams and clips, it was all positive. People are laughing getting excited and having fun and learning the game very quickly. I am convinced those negative people weren't watching.
When i was a kid when xbox live first came out i got cvs2 i want to be good so bad but it was so hard i couldnt do ANYTHING. A guy named calipower said dont quit kid let me show you some stuff..he helped me. Found out 15 yrs later who the heck he was..thanks alex..the only reason i remember his gtag was because i had power in my name and people use to make fun of it lol but this guy had power in his name and was super cool. Be more like calipower ppl dont put people down..
Surely he isn't referring to *me*! Now I'm just gonna log onto the everything app to complain about everything.
As someone who grew up playing fighting games and getting good at them, ive gotten burned out of playing them a few years ago but I'm trynna get back into it. I love seeing new people trying fighting games and getting good at them.
the entire event is great but i especially love watching the brand new players in each slam learning something, practicing it, and losing their minds when they do it when their coach is watching. the excitement, the joy, and the healthy amount of pride in accomplishing something is so good. hook it to my veins
FGC discourse is like spending time with your grandparents. They just tell you the same stories over and over.
I'm a new player having an insanely difficult time learning, but I'm still loving it and really enjoyed the slam. Thanks for doing the stuff you do!
Too many fighting game players forget the part where it's a fighting GAME, as in a thing you play to have fun.
FGC really needed to listen to their parents when they said the most important thing was to have fun.
Big three? Why only three? Why can't all the AAA fighting games live together in harmony?
They tried, but then the Fire Nation attacked.
Super Streams Monsters HD Remix Re:Stream XKO Rev 2
This made me realize that I want a fighting game "Big 3" beef with Harada and Daisuke releasing diss tracks. Harada would use old Tekken songs for beats, while Daisuke is writing new songs and recording with a live band. Michael Murray tries to contain Harada while MajinObama translates for those not weeb enough to follow Japanese sites live, still trying to make Waffle House DLC happen, all culminating in a first to ten in Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown in a special episode of Harada's Bar. Social media is worthless if we cannot make this happen.
Sometimes i wonder if the people on Twitter play the games they talk about because they never post clips .
its great because this discourse happened because someone posted an astro bot screenshot of the fighting game characters. thats it. the whole website exploded because someone thought it was cute that there were three popular fighting game characters in that game.
Damn, I thought the Sajam Slam was going to be good for showing how much easier it is to learn the games then what people say. Alot of the players looked great considering 1 week of play
As someone who mained other genres and has never used twitter. Damn bro that sucks lol. The slam is hype and I hope you run more.
I'm either having a fever dream or I did indeed remember AnimeIlluminati Jiyuna making a video talking about how the worst thing about rivalries or "beef" in the FGC is the fans making it weird and ruining it.
Conclusion: people on X ruin everything for everyone else.
We need an FGC version of Twitter where your rank in your fg of choice must be visible when you post
Sajam you always bring common sense to the kids table that is Twitter. Thank you for being a voice of reason amidst the voices of chaos (Twitter again)
8:03 CONEY MENTIONED
I'm glad to see a creator talk about this. I've had this since I started learning FGs a few years ago. People ask you what you play and then instantly shit on the game and how hard it is to learn and how the mechanics are bad and how it's a watered down version of an older game. Most of the people I saw saying this stuff was long time FG players who don't even know what the new player experience is like since they just skip learning the basics cause they already played other FGs before. I've seen a lot of this with 2XKO playtest recently with long time FG players shitting on the new player experience which, at the time wasn't even really implemented, and talk about how LoL was easier to learn than 2XKO and how they've been playing LoL for 6+ years. Most of these people have either forgotten how bad it was to learn a MOBA or are still at a bellow avg skill rating cause they never learned the concepts of the game fully after years cause the game itself never explains them. Just let people have fun. There are iron 4 players on LoL that only play the game to have fun. They barely understand what the game is about. Leave them be.
Ngl, I stopped going to my only local because there was always this one loud, obnoxious dude that showed up, set up a steam deck playing XX and complained for 4 hours about how bullshit SF6 was. Any opinion about the new games (SF6 and T8) was quickly brushed aside cause there was so much bullshit in these games, you should just play 3S, but "you know, 3S also has some stupid shit". As a new player to SF6, it just felt horrible sitting there enjoying my Juri combos, and I went back to online because of it. Fuck these people.
As someone who is regularly forced to interact with normies (by which I mean 30-50 year olds) in my daily life (pray for me plz), if you mention fighting games to them, the literal only image that will flash in their minds is Street Fighter 2.
The whole 90's gag of SFII having a million updated releases is still a relevant joke to these people.
Its one step removed from someone's parents still calling every game console they see "nintendo".
God I'm so happy I stopped using the bird app.
The Slams got me into playing fighting games and even other genres more :) I used to not pick up FPS or Fighting games purely because I've been a MOBA player and figured I'd be bad and have no fun in anything else which couldn't have been further from the truth cus I'm having a blast
Its good to also have fun with the games you play. Some people just gotta remember to not ruin others people fun by yelling at them, not a good vibe
America: Tekken is not in the top 3!
Europe: Which FG's are in the top 3 behind Tekken?
Korea/Pakistan: Wait! There are other FG's than Tekken?
Non Tekken FGC: They play FG's in Pakistan?
The real enemy here, is social media
*the humans using social media
I don’t even mean this in a toxic way… but I’m confused. Does Sajam believe that the slam, in which a twitch streamer with infinite free time is paired with a literal professional player Coach is in anyway representative of the average new fighting game player experience?!
I don't think so, I can be incorrect on this, but what I get from this video is that they (Twitter) is using clips of these streamers getting momentarily frustrated, or using the fact that they're getting coached by experts but are still capable of malding as somehow an indicative of how bad the new player experience is etc etc, that's probably a few of the points that are used but idk, I'm not masochistic enough to redownload Twitter.
personally if what I get from this video is correct them mfs with that kind take is pretty goofy imo, and I'll just assume that those people have never tried learning literally any other game or skill set where they have zero experience in.
I became a dokibird fan after the slam. I hope she still plays
PhiDX is a high level Tekken player, he plays fighting games and he was losing his mind at the people in chat being like “erm actually cammy can anti air that with djdhshudebsu”
People really jus be waking up n go like "Oh boy, I see my favorite streamer fuckin strugglin with fighting games, time to go be upset about it"
Sajam Slam: Emote Only Mode Edition
Street Fighter has LTG, debate over.
on the contrary i think every fg community has made me laugh a lot genuinely (:
I was watching Lilypichu over the weekend pre-glove and it was so strange seeing so many people in chat be like "oh I dont find leverless 360's hard" or "It's easier than stick". Its like commenting on her input struggles brought people out of the woodworks to gloat about how good they are it was so strange
Teacher yelling at the class... But sajam I didn't break the rules I was a good fighting game player
Nose joke killed me. Much love brother.
I guess you could say that they used the slam....
to slam on it.
When you showed the tweet of how Slam players are real fighting gamers by rehashing old arguments, it reminded me after it was all done, Lily started talking about how her boyfriend only plays Smash, and she said it was a fun party game to just play with friends. The chat, including myself, blew the fuck up because we couldn't believe she said the thing. It was so funny seeing her try to backpedal. It's true that it's fun to play in that setting, but it's also true that Melee, specifically, is really fucking sick.
The people who say Smash isn't a fighting game are like those who say card packs aren't loot boxes; they're the same thing, they just function slightly differently.
Melty Blood fans cant watch this video because there's no wifi in the bathroom
They have achieved nirvana. They have broken the cycle of death and rebirth, and achieved enlightenment. The only thing they endure is the slight piss smell of the toilet the laptop is sitting in, they are otherwise in pure serenity.
@@dancinginfernalmeanwhile everyone else is stuck here in the eternal cycle of Samsara
Get em Sajam.
I love fighting games and when I start not enjoying a particular fighting game, I move on to a different game or genre.
Then I come back. It's not hard
The only thing i took away from this video is sajam HATES sonic and sonic fans, Somebody ought to let him know how awesome sonic is.
I love the "Sajam has fucking had enough of fgc Twitter" videos
y'all *really* gotta learn when trans girls are semi-shitposting.
the fact that I *immediately* knew just from looking at that post there was certainly an unstated asterisk that said don't take this seriously w/o context, yet nobody else wanted to at least give her the benefit of the doubt is wild, but nowhere near surprising to me.
literally, if you just looked at the following tweets you'd understand where she was coming from. but instead, a bunch of shitty people turned her relatively harmless tweet into an excuse to attack her entire existence.
that right there is enough to give at least some space to her statement, b/c the FGC absolutely needs to learn how to be a safer place for ALL PLAYERS to enjoy themselves. everybody isn't an asshole, and the internet doesn't explicitly represent every fgc player, but how many ppl came to at least shut down the transphobia that is summoned the moment a trans girl mentions bridget in a positive light?
fwiw I do think that mk's ***current*** cultural relevance, among ppl who weren't born in the 90s, is up for discussion. dbfz was many ppl's first fg, and MANY of those ppl went on to play gg strive. a lot more ppl decided to play later, or come back to it, b/c bridget was added to the game.
bridget has always been a hella popular character, internationally, and always will be. I think she gets to be in the conversation, at minimum, as an honorable mention alongside the other super recognizable characters like guile, scorpion, and others.
To be fair Bridgets character turn is so fumbled that it drove fans of the character insane
I don’t think anyone cared when that one wrestler Charscter in grand blue was trans besides other trans people liking them
The uh... big real life moments of the previous decade definitively proved, that there is literally no such thing as "an opinion too stupid". I'm personally done attempting to detect sarcasm or giving benefits of doubt. Don't say dumb shit, don't face dumb consequences.
As for Bridget's popularity - maybe she'll be iconic enough in the next generation or the one after, but as it currently stands I don't think you can show her to non-gamer 40-60 year olds and expect them to go "yeah she's familiar".
Yeah like I thought it was extremely obvious that she was joking. People are just ready to sink their teeth into anyone who looks like a slightly acceptable target and trans girls already get enough harrasment as is.
@@doctordice2doctordice210 It only "drove fans of the character insane" because they got incubated into anti-trans online hate circles that pretend we're taking their femboys away, there is no reason to take that response seriously
@@FluoriteRhodochrosite That’s a decent amount of em (because political grifters will literally jump on anything they see without a second thought) but there’s also a really serious discussion about transgenderism and gender nonconformity that sort of made the character umm “development” disheartening for many of her fans
A discussion I don’t feel comfortable talking about here because, these sort of conversations don’t match the vibe of a sajam vid lol
I thought the Astro Bot post is what started this whole debate
The timing on this is so funny to me cause the latest fgc the discussion has shifted to the Wazzler now we know who has the funny community 🤣🤣.