The idea of a "flooded", frozen horse suddenly "snapping out of it" later reminds me of myself, an educator with anxiety, who had to rapidly get used to hosting video lessons earlier in the year. I had a lot of apprehension, but I did very well with it. I felt the fear and did it anyway, you might say, and did it with some panache. Successful desensitisation? Then one morning without warning I broke down crying 10min before a lesson. Had to cancel all my lessons that day, and had to pre-record lectures for the last few weeks of term. After the summer break I had some really bad reactions to the very sight of Zoom, which took some effort to get past. So much of what you say has applications to us as much as to the horse. So important to find the line between effective desensitisation, and "flooding" which stores up trouble for later. The kind of behaviour your describe in the frozen horse is called "learned helplessness" in human children. So much food for thought.
Very well spoken and we as humans have a few more tools for understanding. These lockdowns we are going through is becoming " the cure is worse than the illness". Humans are struggling. Thank GOD for horse angels and people striving fir a better way for the horse. THANK YOU WARWICK for marvelous videos and I hope to meet you someday!
Desensitization cannot happen - in people or horses -if there the trigger is completely avoided. The exposure to the trigger has to be gradual, and as Warwick says, not to overload the horses’s nervous system. In mental health, trauma people talk about the window of tolerance…. You can be out of it and shut down, or on the other end, out of it and agitated panic. The desensitization happens within the window of tolerance, which is supported by relationship (i.e., the social engagement system)
This was a fantastic example of getting your horse to think toward something rather than freeze or flee to get away from it. I need my horse to be aware and thinking when I ride. We have bears(grizzly and black), wolves, mountain lions etc. and we often encounter them when riding. The horse picks up on danger long before I do and I need my horse to let me know something is there but not freak out and lose their mind. Same if we are dealing with a rank range bull, freezing would be catastrophic and fleeing especially in the timber wouldn't be much better. Having a horse that engages with you and properly lets you know when something is wrong without having a melt down is essential to not having wrecks. Now if something jumps out of the grass at my horse's feet and tries to grab my horse, I expect and need it to jump away but if the horse mindlessly jumps away from anything that bothers it and you are on a little wood bridge over a ravine or river they need to be thinking so they don't jump right off the bridge, cliff etc.(it may sound funny but if you ever watch a horse commit suicide in fear by jumping off a cliff in a blind panic, it gets a lot less funny real quick). The connection stuff you show in this video and in your subscription videos shows in minute detail how to get a horse where I need my horse's to be without getting them where I don't. I really appreciate all the work you put into showing a better way to train horses. Great video!
So bloody true, watched countless Horse BREAKERS in Qld in 1960/70's doing the same. Catch, mouth, saddle, ride all in 3 days. Resulting in our NEW horses being firecrackers, short fused and full of Fear. Only one Horseman did it right, Dougy Wright fron Charters Towers. He was head Stockman on EGERA Stn, taught me so much. Kia Kaha Warick, your wisdom is badly needed.
So finally it is all about sensitizing the human for the subtle signs the horse gives us. This way I don't need to think about desensitizing because it comes by its own as a result of trust and connection. The beauty of this principle of "mental bonding" is that it renders so many well- known methods obsolete. Thank you (again) for giving me anouther puzzle-piece!
I have a 11 year old mustang I got because he failed tip training school, and his adopters felt he was going to be to much they drop out of adopting him so the horse came to me when he came he was full of so much fear he had retreated inside himself like a turtle he is the kind of horse you study late at night get up early study some more I have talked to trainers video chatted with anyone willing to take a minute about my challenge of getting this horse out of his shell some where helpful some not so much watching your video made me think of a video of a person working with him before I got him this person is really good at what they do, but for this horse it just made him retreat inside himself you just explained this horse in your video thank you for posting your videos to help get this horse out of his shell
I’ve dealt with this a lot with dogs I’ve rescued (I’m a dog trainer by profession). This state of mind is called “learned helplessness”. It takes some work to get them out of it but it definitely can be done!
Excellent. Thank you for the thorough explanation. I've done all of this over the years but didn't know how to explain the differences and why the latter has proven to be superior.
Warwick, thank you SO much. You have helped open my eyes. I have a new mare and she shuts down, until she explodes. I could tell that her standing still was a freeze, but I had no idea how to get her out of that mental state. This approach of respecting her threshold makes so much sense. I'm going to check out your other polyvagal videos. Thank you again!
And followup note ... love the end... words do matter to help shift the mindset...this is not desensitizing, its sensitizing ! Sensitizing us to communication from our horses, our horses to us, and then through that relationship, engaging in the present, regardless of what "object" "training goal" "stimulant" etc is "presenting" in that present moment. Totally different approach, engaging in communication, curiosity and relationship and trust rather than pressure and fear. Same mindshift and conversation around "gentling" vs "breaking"... but thats for another conversation. Thank you, Warwick !
#journeyon20 The Polyvagal View on Desensitization has changed me and my horse's lives. Over a year of finally understanding his apprehension, my horse has 'woken up' and grows more alive every day. Thank you for continually broadening my knowledge as a horsemen. #journeyon
Thank you, Warwick, for your courage, integrity, and awesomeness... for opening to this journey, and enabling us to follow on this transformative path too, for the betterment of horses and humans !! Your podcast and these videos exploring Polyvagal, energy and intent have been life changing! Every day is now a revelation, with my horses offering extraordinary things, that before this journey, were inconceivable. Forever grateful! Sending you and your community positive energy as we collectively continue on this path :)
In the netherlands 'scare trainings' are very popular. They will have an arena full of things a horse might think is scary. Sooo often, horses will actually do well in that arena, and be much worse afterwards..
I sympathise so hard with those horses, as someone with anxiety who has had to "power through" scary situations, and then had delayed, worse reactions to them later.
Pretty flower garden with lots of humming birds. I so like this different approach to dealing with horses. I've never liked any training methods I've witnessed, even some from Mr. Schiller in the past. This new approach is why; it negates the need for most of it and is more about establishing a long-term relationship out of which we can get what we want from the horse in partnership with the horse instead of via dominance or trickery.
Hi Warwick. I think curiosity is key. You can use your bond with the horse to help them to be curious about new and novel things instead of scared, but exploring novel things with your horse seems to be really bonding for you both too. I read an article about how doing new and novel things with your spouse leads to a huge increase in satisfaction in the marriage and I think it is true with your horse as well, as long as you keep it at a level where the horse is still engaging and not being forced. I think it is like when you find someone who has the same interests as you but has a different take on things and different knowledge. You keep coming back for more because you are always learning new stuff. It makes sense to seek out those who you learn from, both for horses and humans. The more you know about the world the easier it is to survive in it.
I love how you brought that down to the softness/flexing around you as the clue that you have done this work successfully. I would say this shows that you have built a model for engagement/communication/conversation between you and the horse. The horse feels your attunement with them....that they can 'speak' and you will 'hear' them.
In constant evolution, the best trainer I have ever seen. So lucky to be able to have access to so much knowledge. Also not just even training with the goal of improving riding/discipline but just the knowledge of the horses perception and fairness goes far beyond this. For me he even provokes the highest questions about the horse and human relationship and at what stage is it too much to be considered a real relationship. On the goal to reach the highest level of an equine discipline it appears to be less about relationship and more about the goal ( maybe even Impossible to have both with such demands). I'd like to hear a Warwick's views on the fairness and the human horse relationship. When's the next book ha??
Love the method used to explain the different levels of this and psychological impact of each! Wish all owners and trainers can wake up to this, it's so important! Thank you Warwick! 😁🐎
Having just discovered the polyvagal theory (thank you, Peter Levine) in humans, and recognising as a survivor of abuse that I freeze, applying it to horses is fascinating. At 70, I doubt I will ever learn to ride, but as the daughter of an amazing horse whisperer and saddler, loving horses is in my DNA.Btw, as another Aussie, you had far too much fun hooning around, the larrikin spirit is strong in you still. Love your work.💜🐨
This gives me something to think of. I’ve been coming to this understanding myself lately. Now that I see the logic behind it it makes sense. I’ll try it out!
You're such a good teacher. Thanks so much for the well laid out, specific examples of each approach. It really made it easy to identify and articulate what I've been doing and observing, but mostly intuitively. I didn't have much vocabulary or structure for communicating or thinking about it.
Fantastic !!.I'm now engaging & connecting with a stunning filly, whos green. I will follow your guidelines .I'm nearly 60yo , I'd like to start riding again I'm hoping to gain the knowledge & confidence as we go , regards Kirstin
Great Video!! Sadly there is still this old school desensitizing going on! I just had 2 young Warmbloods, a 3 yo gelding and a 2 yo filly, for training and that is what they went through! The 3 yo gelding was super sweet but TERRIFIED of the tarp, they had hobbeled him and locked in RoundPen tied to a Post and forced the tarp on him!! The Filly couldn't get hosed down, because she was terrified of water, the owner had tied her in Roundpen with said unbreakable halter and kept spraying her with hose!!!! It took A LOT to get their confidence to where they could trust and even approach those things. I used clicker as well and it really helped these horses, but sadly the owner doesn't care......
I follow your videos for a few years now and every time I turn on a new video I find something new and valuable. I learned so incredibly much from your bending to relaxation and your Principles of Training videos. Through your work, I gained a much better understanding of my horse's view and reactions. What I find unique about your channel is your capability of change and your constant self-reflection. I guess this and your constant reminder to change perspective are the most valuable things we can learn from you. That is the reason why I choose this video. Because particularly this view on desensitizing helped me to find a completely different approach towards my horse. So please never stop making these incredible videos for us! #journeyon20
Warwick, your videos, and content on TH-cam, other social media platforms, & Podcasts HAVE CHANGED MY LIFE! Not just in how I now want to interact with, and train my horses, but also how I want to be as a person, and that this journey we are all on is about ongoing self-growth. Very hard for me to pick a favourite video as I have seen many, and am working through viewing more. But this one really shifted something in me, and my way on thinking, and changing the way I view things. Your work and content is such a gift, thank you! #journeyon20
Thanks so much for being who U r for sharing this free I hope U are still eating well haha. I unknowingly brought a injured horse even though I got it vet checked and was expecting to send it away for education then couldn't. After a year of work and despear I thought this horse just hated me then I saw your work on shut down horses it was like an awakening silly as it sounds I had never heard of it . At first when he would turn away as I approached and I stopped and stepped back and waited until I got up to him it seemed like it wasnt working because everytime was like starting again then on the fourth day something changed in his eyes it was like a little spark of interest 😂 and we are moving forward thanks so much a guess U hear this all the time . but U have brought us both out of a very dark place .I can't thankyou enough 💚 Donna and Chester
Thank you SO much for making this. I’ve watched, to my horror, a trainer terrorize a horse into submission. Thank you for breaking it down, not using a horse for this demonstration, and being such an amazing teacher. You’re the best!
Your explanation and demo here totally makes sense of the principle of pressure and release within the task/goal. Maybe you could show this again with different tasks, bridling, loading etc.
I'm a dog trainer and I've just found your channel. Dog training uses similar, if nit the exact same methods as you demonstrate in your videos for various behaviors. When they aren't the same, I'm learning to "tweak" them for use with the canine brain! Your style of explanation is very good with just enough science and background mixed with practical application and demonstrations. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.
These methods and theories are so eye opening. I really appreciate how open Warwick is about how he used to do things in the past and that it’s ok to change and adapt and learn better ways of doing something. These videos really helped me to start thinking outside of the box and grasping concepts rather than just memorizing an exercise and hoping for the best. #journeyon20
You're GREAT Warwick. My horses will do everything else, but 2 of them ...no matter what I do they are so scared of a bath. I mean I've done EVERYTHING possible, and have done it SLOWLY, but those 2 horses freak out. I don't know what else to do.
Discovering your videos way back when in 2014 was the start of my own horsemanship journey. And as you went on to discover everything Sherlock taught you, I went with you on that path. It wasn't always easy to discover myself along the way and get confronted with the hard parts, but it's all been worth it. My horse and I are the better for it, having found our way together thanks to your guidance. The way you explain the science, techniques and the relationship part of it all is absolutely unique. Thank you for (for me) six years of being a wonderful teacher. #journeyon20
G'day Fien, thanks for your response! You have won yourself a free Year subscription! Just send me an email with your information and I'll get you sorted. warwick@warwickschiller.com
I have been an avid follower of AB (I am sure you know who she is) and I love that you are working the techniques that she promotes for communication into your training. Your newer methods are very helpful in retraining my auction rescue that was almost starved to death.
Thankyou for going into such detail! I had great success using the techniques in your older videos with my two quarter-horses, but I recently did six days in a row with a mustang mare I adopted and she's not as easy to handle, she's the first horse I've ever worked with that acted like she was going to run me over intentionally. She used to be a semi-feral; dog-killer and had to be sedated to have her hooves trimmed, so I got her for 300 bucks. Now that I've had her for a few months, she has started trusting me with her hooves; is way less averse to human contact, and she's even learned to stand tied up to young; strong pecan trees(bank robbers knot video was helpful for that). Your videos on connection have helped change me and my horses for the better, and this video was a great clarification of the different techniques, thank you again!
This same theory I remember reading in an old book where it was basically explained as approach and retreat but always keeping within the horses comfort zone so retreating just before the point where he got upset
Thank you for the longer video on polyvagal theory! This definitely made a lot more sense, and nicely illustrated this new way to think about the different "brakes" in the parasympathetic nervous system. I appreciate that you took the time to put this together.
This is the best explanation I have ever heard and it helps me so much overcome my uncertainty. I have learned about some different approaches all at the same time and was very confused. I could never decide how to act and got very hesitant. Thank you!
Thank you. That's a very helpful explanation about how the different types of “desensitizing“ work and what they will to the horse and to our relationship. Really great! And a relaxed animal as well as a relaxed human will be much more capable to learn than a stressed out one. Greetings from Germany [please excuse my poor English, but I'm so excited, I have to comment your video :-D ].
Thank you so much for this, Warwick! I so appreciate you sharing these ways of communicating and listening in such easy to understand and approachable ways. I know an anxious gelding I'm going to try this on next time I see him. Thank you again.
My young mare's reaction to flag: to play with it, chase it, or grab it and run away with it after you put it down. And this was right after she'd been brought in from the range, not the result of past training. Sometimes with horses like this it's hard to find something they are actually afraid of, but my guess is that even with the most fearless horse in the world, there will always be SOMETHING. So it's best to have a technique to work through fear and practice it before that happens. (With this mare, the "scary thing" was an alpaca.)
Yes great video!! I started using the last method... after a few mins she started to walking after the flag when I take it away!? Does very good on left side but not that great on the right.. so working at that still..
Wow. This added so much depth to the theory of "desensitizing." There is so much more to this than what most trainers talk about. I will for sure be using that last approach from now on with my horse. Thank you! #journeyon20
Kind and effective. Science meets real life! How do we apply this to puddles? I find walking on the ground with him together helps. But he will still avoid the puddle, rather than walk through. The brakes are coming off, not completely, but I can't take the puddle away :-) Thanks!
This is great, but I'd love a little addition on "learned helplessness" esp how it relates to the prison system and why it doesn't work. What I love about being pure positive is that it allows for encouraging the animal (dog, horse, child, whatever) to engage their mind. I do not want to be riding a dead-head in a scary situation. I want a horse who recognizes that I respect their brain and emotions so we can work in partnership.
I have no idea how learned helplessnes and the prison system relate. As far as +R, I dont think it really matters what quadrant you use, it matter which branch of the vagus nerve you engage.
@@WarwickSchiller a system for desensitization of horses I would like to see more of is counter conditioning(classical conditioning)- the pairing of a stimuli with reward. Positive reinforcement versus negative reinforcement surely would produce a different physiological response. If you are using pressure that's being taken away there would be the typical chemical response in an animals body -Adrenaline , noradrenaline and cortisol would be produced. If you are working in the Positive reinforcement quadrant the stress hormones would unlikely be present to that degree, while there is a motivating reward. Surely each approach would would affect the vagus nerve differently.
@@lauca6969 Actually research has shown that CAT-H (which is one of the techniques I used here) is actually more beneficial that +R when working with a frightened animal.
@@lauca6969 When an animal is learning, you must reward the "Try". When you lose the try, you're adding resistance to training, which slows the process and doesn't encourage the animal/human to make abstract connections which is when you get great leaps in comprehension and performance. This is where Pure Positive excels. Too many people assume that PP means ONLY rewards, which it does not. Having worked with extremely abused dogs (fight busts, etc.), horses (One fell to her knees in fear that I had a cattle prod in my hand), and elephants (full contact, outside the US), I've seen how their brains are harmed through the restriction of movement. In the case of the Pajan: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_crushing, it is meant to break the animal's soul. This is why I referenced our prison system, which is meant to do the same and is why the recidivision rate hovers at ~70%. IMHO prison reform and training theory should be working hand in hand to fix a broken system. Using PP also does not mean you never say "No.", but it does mean staying out of Flight/Flight response, which shuts down the thinking part of the brain. Autistic kids' meltdowns are a good example of what happens when an amygdala is overstimulated. As a college professor, I have many ASD students and have become more and more aware of how fear plays into the learning process. My sensitivity to them has only come through recognizing my earlier experience with abused animals. It is all the same plumbing...so to speak.
I have my horse so we'll desensitized through engagement that I can clip his bridle path loose in the field and as long as he knows I'm paying attention he will stand quietly without a stitch of tack. I just call him over and ask him to stand while I clip. When I got him he had never been successfully haltered and had spent his life in such a small space he didn't know flight was an option so he would fight. He had learned only two things; that humans were predators who would trap and hurt him and that he could fight off humans more easily than other predators.
I had tried to desensitize my horse to plastic bags with your old method a few years ago, she has a huge fear of plastic bags and I may have made it worse, I don't know if I did it wrong but I had spent hours working with her and probably went backwards in her confidence. Lately I've just been ignoring the plastic bag issue and every once in a while when we're at an event and have our snacks in plastic bags, Stella knows that's where the treats come from and was actually interested in the bag and engaging with it looking for apples or grapes, even when the wind blew it around she never had a big reaction to the noises like she had done before, so just by doing nothing she has gotten better, I do want to try your new method on her though, I'm just worried about setting her back again.
I notice Clinton does a variation of the one you say you used to use. He doesn't take it away until they show signs of relaxing (at first he may take a freeze if that's all he can get, but he's working towards relaxation.) Seems quite valid, but I'm definitely appreciating the value of your newer paradigm.
I loved this video. It helped me understand the vagal branches and how it relates my horse's freeze state. The video also helped me recognize how the theory applies to all mammals, including humans, which is very cool. Thanks so much for all you share! #journeyon20
These videos on polyvagal view really helped me with my incredibly anxious saddler mare, she had a tendency to freeze and shut down but after I applied knowledge from these video she became more open and connected to and more willing to relax instead of just freezing and shutting down. #journey20
Thanks Warwick! I have a question- I am picking up a pretty well unhandled 2yo gelding from a breeder soon. I've been wracking my brain as to how I can make the trailering experience a positive one for him with this approach, as obviously I wont have the opportunity to build that connection before I go pick him up. Any tips?
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
A horseman that is constantly improving his method is the only kind I want to follow! Excellent video!
This!!! Also! I’m a Chevy girl too💛
I came here to say the same thing! I absolutely love his approach and his willingness to try new things 😊
Totaly agree❤
I love how open you are to changing your methods based on science and the mental and physical comfort of the horse.
You may want to call it “building confidence” instead and this is actually a crucial concept for real horsemanship. A point well made.
The idea of a "flooded", frozen horse suddenly "snapping out of it" later reminds me of myself, an educator with anxiety, who had to rapidly get used to hosting video lessons earlier in the year.
I had a lot of apprehension, but I did very well with it. I felt the fear and did it anyway, you might say, and did it with some panache. Successful desensitisation?
Then one morning without warning I broke down crying 10min before a lesson. Had to cancel all my lessons that day, and had to pre-record lectures for the last few weeks of term. After the summer break I had some really bad reactions to the very sight of Zoom, which took some effort to get past.
So much of what you say has applications to us as much as to the horse. So important to find the line between effective desensitisation, and "flooding" which stores up trouble for later. The kind of behaviour your describe in the frozen horse is called "learned helplessness" in human children. So much food for thought.
Very well spoken and we as humans have a few more tools for understanding.
These lockdowns we are going through is becoming " the cure is worse than the illness".
Humans are struggling.
Thank GOD for horse angels and people striving fir a better way for the horse.
THANK YOU WARWICK for marvelous videos and I hope to meet you someday!
I sympathize with you. Your reaction was my experience with teaching via Zoom. Detested it.
Desensitization cannot happen - in people or horses -if there the trigger is completely avoided. The exposure to the trigger has to be gradual, and as Warwick says, not to overload the horses’s nervous system. In mental health, trauma people talk about the window of tolerance…. You can be out of it and shut down, or on the other end, out of it and agitated panic. The desensitization happens within the window of tolerance, which is supported by relationship (i.e., the social engagement system)
This was a fantastic example of getting your horse to think toward something rather than freeze or flee to get away from it. I need my horse to be aware and thinking when I ride.
We have bears(grizzly and black), wolves, mountain lions etc. and we often encounter them when riding. The horse picks up on danger long before I do and I need my horse to let me know something is there but not freak out and lose their mind. Same if we are dealing with a rank range bull, freezing would be catastrophic and fleeing especially in the timber wouldn't be much better. Having a horse that engages with you and properly lets you know when something is wrong without having a melt down is essential to not having wrecks. Now if something jumps out of the grass at my horse's feet and tries to grab my horse, I expect and need it to jump away but if the horse mindlessly jumps away from anything that bothers it and you are on a little wood bridge over a ravine or river they need to be thinking so they don't jump right off the bridge, cliff etc.(it may sound funny but if you ever watch a horse commit suicide in fear by jumping off a cliff in a blind panic, it gets a lot less funny real quick).
The connection stuff you show in this video and in your subscription videos shows in minute detail how to get a horse where I need my horse's to be without getting them where I don't. I really appreciate all the work you put into showing a better way to train horses. Great video!
you can’t train out their natural instinct
Developing them to react with curiosity instead of resistance. We all need more of that!
So bloody true, watched countless Horse BREAKERS in Qld in 1960/70's doing the same. Catch, mouth, saddle, ride all in 3 days. Resulting in our NEW horses being firecrackers, short fused and full of Fear. Only one Horseman did it right, Dougy Wright fron Charters Towers. He was head Stockman on EGERA Stn, taught me so much. Kia Kaha Warick, your wisdom is badly needed.
Wow. I need to watch this every time before I interact with my horse. ❤❤❤
So finally it is all about sensitizing the human for the subtle signs the horse gives us. This way I don't need to think about desensitizing because it comes by its own as a result of trust and connection. The beauty of this principle of "mental bonding" is that it renders so many well- known methods obsolete. Thank you (again) for giving me anouther puzzle-piece!
I thought that was a fantastic explanation. Thank you. I’ll try it, and hopefully be a better horseman.
I have a 11 year old mustang I got because he failed tip training school, and his adopters felt he was going to be to much they drop out of adopting him so the horse came to me when he came he was full of so much fear he had retreated inside himself like a turtle he is the kind of horse you study late at night get up early study some more I have talked to trainers video chatted with anyone willing to take a minute about my challenge of getting this horse out of his shell some where helpful some not so much watching your video made me think of a video of a person working with him before I got him this person is really good at what they do, but for this horse it just made him retreat inside himself you just explained this horse in your video thank you for posting your videos to help get this horse out of his shell
I hope you update in comments!!!
I’ve dealt with this a lot with dogs I’ve rescued (I’m a dog trainer by profession). This state of mind is called “learned helplessness”. It takes some work to get them out of it but it definitely can be done!
How’s it going with your mustang?
Excellent. Thank you for the thorough explanation. I've done all of this over the years but didn't know how to explain the differences and why the latter has proven to be superior.
Watching this with my kid to understand the physical part of our emotions better. Thank you
Being seen, being heard, feeling felt and getting gotten. (Pretty sure that’s how it goes)
Thats exactly it
Just how humans want to be treated as well.
Warwick, thank you SO much. You have helped open my eyes. I have a new mare and she shuts down, until she explodes. I could tell that her standing still was a freeze, but I had no idea how to get her out of that mental state. This approach of respecting her threshold makes so much sense. I'm going to check out your other polyvagal videos. Thank you again!
And followup note ... love the end... words do matter to help shift the mindset...this is not desensitizing, its sensitizing ! Sensitizing us to communication from our horses, our horses to us, and then through that relationship, engaging in the present, regardless of what "object" "training goal" "stimulant" etc is "presenting" in that present moment. Totally different approach, engaging in communication, curiosity and relationship and trust rather than pressure and fear. Same mindshift and conversation around "gentling" vs "breaking"... but thats for another conversation. Thank you, Warwick !
#journeyon20
The Polyvagal View on Desensitization has changed me and my horse's lives. Over a year of finally understanding his apprehension, my horse has 'woken up' and grows more alive every day. Thank you for continually broadening my knowledge as a horsemen. #journeyon
Thank you, Warwick, for your courage, integrity, and awesomeness... for opening to this journey, and enabling us to follow on this transformative path too, for the betterment of horses and humans !! Your podcast and these videos exploring Polyvagal, energy and intent have been life changing! Every day is now a revelation, with my horses offering extraordinary things, that before this journey, were inconceivable. Forever grateful! Sending you and your community positive energy as we collectively continue on this path :)
In the netherlands 'scare trainings' are very popular. They will have an arena full of things a horse might think is scary. Sooo often, horses will actually do well in that arena, and be much worse afterwards..
I sympathise so hard with those horses, as someone with anxiety who has had to "power through" scary situations, and then had delayed, worse reactions to them later.
Pretty flower garden with lots of humming birds. I so like this different approach to dealing with horses. I've never liked any training methods I've witnessed, even some from Mr. Schiller in the past. This new approach is why; it negates the need for most of it and is more about establishing a long-term relationship out of which we can get what we want from the horse in partnership with the horse instead of via dominance or trickery.
Hi Warwick. I think curiosity is key. You can use your bond with the horse to help them to be curious about new and novel things instead of scared, but exploring novel things with your horse seems to be really bonding for you both too. I read an article about how doing new and novel things with your spouse leads to a huge increase in satisfaction in the marriage and I think it is true with your horse as well, as long as you keep it at a level where the horse is still engaging and not being forced.
I think it is like when you find someone who has the same interests as you but has a different take on things and different knowledge. You keep coming back for more because you are always learning new stuff. It makes sense to seek out those who you learn from, both for horses and humans. The more you know about the world the easier it is to survive in it.
You bond with those you learn from or those you learn with.
I love how you brought that down to the softness/flexing around you as the clue that you have done this work successfully. I would say this shows that you have built a model for engagement/communication/conversation between you and the horse. The horse feels your attunement with them....that they can 'speak' and you will 'hear' them.
Love how he's bothered to film footage of the "horse" going in circles xD
Crikey thats a well trained mule.
He's a pretty gentle one
I was thinking the same thing. I need to get one of those ... At least it would be rideable.
😂😂
This might just be your best video ever! Appreciated
In constant evolution, the best trainer I have ever seen. So lucky to be able to have access to so much knowledge.
Also not just even training with the goal of improving riding/discipline but just the knowledge of the horses perception and fairness goes far beyond this. For me he even provokes the highest questions about the horse and human relationship and at what stage is it too much to be considered a real relationship. On the goal to reach the highest level of an equine discipline it appears to be less about relationship and more about the goal ( maybe even Impossible to have both with such demands). I'd like to hear a Warwick's views on the fairness and the human horse relationship. When's the next book ha??
Another EXCELLENT VIDEO!! Great way to demonstrate this for visual learners, thanks Warwick 🙏🏼
Love the method used to explain the different levels of this and psychological impact of each! Wish all owners and trainers can wake up to this, it's so important! Thank you Warwick! 😁🐎
You are changing minds and changing lifes. Thank you so much!
Having just discovered the polyvagal theory (thank you, Peter Levine) in humans, and recognising as a survivor of abuse that I freeze, applying it to horses is fascinating. At 70, I doubt I will ever learn to ride, but as the daughter of an amazing horse whisperer and saddler, loving horses is in my DNA.Btw, as another Aussie, you had far too much fun hooning around, the larrikin spirit is strong in you still. Love your work.💜🐨
Yes you could learn to ride at 70, our queen here in the UK (god rest her soul) was still riding to her late 90s
This gives me something to think of. I’ve been coming to this understanding myself lately. Now that I see the logic behind it it makes sense. I’ll try it out!
You're such a good teacher. Thanks so much for the well laid out, specific examples of each approach. It really made it easy to identify and articulate what I've been doing and observing, but mostly intuitively. I didn't have much vocabulary or structure for communicating or thinking about it.
Fantastic !!.I'm now engaging & connecting with a stunning filly, whos green. I will follow your guidelines .I'm nearly 60yo , I'd like to start riding again I'm hoping to gain the knowledge & confidence as we go , regards Kirstin
I love this, and you. A trainer who continues to evolve and alter their methods the more they research is the best teacher.
Great Video!! Sadly there is still this old school desensitizing going on! I just had 2 young Warmbloods, a 3 yo gelding and a 2 yo filly, for training and that is what they went through! The 3 yo gelding was super sweet but TERRIFIED of the tarp, they had hobbeled him and locked in RoundPen tied to a Post and forced the tarp on him!! The Filly couldn't get hosed down, because she was terrified of water, the owner had tied her in Roundpen with said unbreakable halter and kept spraying her with hose!!!! It took A LOT to get their confidence to where they could trust and even approach those things. I used clicker as well and it really helped these horses, but sadly the owner doesn't care......
That's horrible. So barbaric. Thank goodness for you.
I follow your videos for a few years now and every time I turn on a new video I find something new and valuable. I learned so incredibly much from your bending to relaxation and your Principles of Training videos. Through your work, I gained a much better understanding of my horse's view and reactions. What I find unique about your channel is your capability of change and your constant self-reflection. I guess this and your constant reminder to change perspective are the most valuable things we can learn from you. That is the reason why I choose this video. Because particularly this view on desensitizing helped me to find a completely different approach towards my horse.
So please never stop making these incredible videos for us!
#journeyon20
So glad I found this before I introduced the training flag
Warwick, your videos, and content on TH-cam, other social media platforms, & Podcasts HAVE CHANGED MY LIFE! Not just in how I now want to interact with, and train my horses, but also how I want to be as a person, and that this journey we are all on is about ongoing self-growth. Very hard for me to pick a favourite video as I have seen many, and am working through viewing more. But this one really shifted something in me, and my way on thinking, and changing the way I view things. Your work and content is such a gift, thank you! #journeyon20
Thanks so much for being who U r for sharing this free I hope U are still eating well haha. I unknowingly brought a injured horse even though I got it vet checked and was expecting to send it away for education then couldn't. After a year of work and despear I thought this horse just hated me then I saw your work on shut down horses it was like an awakening silly as it sounds I had never heard of it . At first when he would turn away as I approached and I stopped and stepped back and waited until I got up to him it seemed like it wasnt working because everytime was like starting again then on the fourth day something changed in his eyes it was like a little spark of interest 😂 and we are moving forward thanks so much a guess U hear this all the time . but U have brought us both out of a very dark place .I can't thankyou enough 💚 Donna and Chester
Thank you SO much for making this. I’ve watched, to my horror, a trainer terrorize a horse into submission. Thank you for breaking it down, not using a horse for this demonstration, and being such an amazing teacher. You’re the best!
Your explanation and demo here totally makes sense of the principle of pressure and release within the task/goal. Maybe you could show this again with different tasks, bridling, loading etc.
If you go to his channel and search for a subject, most likely he already has a video out dealing with that. :)
I'm a dog trainer and I've just found your channel. Dog training uses similar, if nit the exact same methods as you demonstrate in your videos for various behaviors. When they aren't the same, I'm learning to "tweak" them for use with the canine brain! Your style of explanation is very good with just enough science and background mixed with practical application and demonstrations. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.
These methods and theories are so eye opening. I really appreciate how open Warwick is about how he used to do things in the past and that it’s ok to change and adapt and learn better ways of doing something. These videos really helped me to start thinking outside of the box and grasping concepts rather than just memorizing an exercise and hoping for the best. #journeyon20
You're GREAT Warwick. My horses will do everything else, but 2 of them ...no matter what I do they are so scared of a bath. I mean I've done EVERYTHING possible, and have done it SLOWLY, but those 2 horses freak out. I don't know what else to do.
Discovering your videos way back when in 2014 was the start of my own horsemanship journey. And as you went on to discover everything Sherlock taught you, I went with you on that path. It wasn't always easy to discover myself along the way and get confronted with the hard parts, but it's all been worth it. My horse and I are the better for it, having found our way together thanks to your guidance. The way you explain the science, techniques and the relationship part of it all is absolutely unique. Thank you for (for me) six years of being a wonderful teacher. #journeyon20
G'day Fien, thanks for your response! You have won yourself a free Year subscription! Just send me an email with your information and I'll get you sorted.
warwick@warwickschiller.com
@@WarwickSchiller Hi Warwick (and Robyn), thank you very very much! Email is on its way :)
Great! Love your psychological approach.
I have been an avid follower of AB (I am sure you know who she is) and I love that you are working the techniques that she promotes for communication into your training. Your newer methods are very helpful in retraining my auction rescue that was almost starved to death.
This is so amazing.. makes so much sense.. how fing incredible if you figure this out. Genus! Thank you.
Always learning and growing as a horseman. This should be every horseman's goal! Thanks for the advise! And it's free!
I needed this explaination of the differences :) Thank you
Thankyou for going into such detail! I had great success using the techniques in your older videos with my two quarter-horses, but I recently did six days in a row with a mustang mare I adopted and she's not as easy to handle, she's the first horse I've ever worked with that acted like she was going to run me over intentionally. She used to be a semi-feral; dog-killer and had to be sedated to have her hooves trimmed, so I got her for 300 bucks. Now that I've had her for a few months, she has started trusting me with her hooves; is way less averse to human contact, and she's even learned to stand tied up to young; strong pecan trees(bank robbers knot video was helpful for that). Your videos on connection have helped change me and my horses for the better, and this video was a great clarification of the different techniques, thank you again!
This same theory I remember reading in an old book where it was basically explained as approach and retreat but always keeping within the horses comfort zone so retreating just before the point where he got upset
Now often referred to in the trauma literature as staying within the window of tolerance
Awesome wonderful fantastic brilliant, thank you! This makes so much sense! 👍
Thank you for the longer video on polyvagal theory! This definitely made a lot more sense, and nicely illustrated this new way to think about the different "brakes" in the parasympathetic nervous system. I appreciate that you took the time to put this together.
This is the best explanation I have ever heard and it helps me so much overcome my uncertainty. I have learned about some different approaches all at the same time and was very confused. I could never decide how to act and got very hesitant. Thank you!
I have been watching your videos for a while now and they have really helped me look at things from a different perspective. Thank you very much
Thank you for this. Your way of explaining things makes it easy to understand and put into use with my horses. It makes sense.
Terrific video! Thank you.
Keep the curoosity instead of developing the fear.love that
So good. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you Warwick. This is wonderful i 100% understand this explination.
Thank you. That's a very helpful explanation about how the different types of “desensitizing“ work and what they will to the horse and to our relationship. Really great! And a relaxed animal as well as a relaxed human will be much more capable to learn than a stressed out one. Greetings from Germany [please excuse my poor English, but I'm so excited, I have to comment your video :-D ].
Is anyone else concerned that this quad bike is already traumatised? It seems completely frozen at the sight of the flag.
😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
Thank you so much for this, Warwick! I so appreciate you sharing these ways of communicating and listening in such easy to understand and approachable ways. I know an anxious gelding I'm going to try this on next time I see him. Thank you again.
#journeyon20 This is my favourite video - probably because we have eventors.Trying to put it into practice.
❤makes perfect sense now!
Absolutely wonderful! And all so very very true.
Thank you for this.
My young mare's reaction to flag: to play with it, chase it, or grab it and run away with it after you put it down. And this was right after she'd been brought in from the range, not the result of past training. Sometimes with horses like this it's hard to find something they are actually afraid of, but my guess is that even with the most fearless horse in the world, there will always be SOMETHING. So it's best to have a technique to work through fear and practice it before that happens. (With this mare, the "scary thing" was an alpaca.)
Thank you for sharing all your great knowledge aboout training horses! Love from Sweden 😊🤗🐎🐎🇸🇪🇸🇪
Yes great video!! I started using the last method... after a few mins she started to walking after the flag when I take it away!? Does very good on left side but not that great on the right.. so working at that still..
Wow. This added so much depth to the theory of "desensitizing." There is so much more to this than what most trainers talk about. I will for sure be using that last approach from now on with my horse. Thank you! #journeyon20
I have not found a video by you yet that wasn't genius.
Thank you!
Thank you !
LOVE this!
Kind and effective. Science meets real life! How do we apply this to puddles? I find walking on the ground with him together helps. But he will still avoid the puddle, rather than walk through. The brakes are coming off, not completely, but I can't take the puddle away :-) Thanks!
Great stuff learnt a lot
Brilliant. Thank you.
This is great, but I'd love a little addition on "learned helplessness" esp how it relates to the prison system and why it doesn't work.
What I love about being pure positive is that it allows for encouraging the animal (dog, horse, child, whatever) to engage their mind. I do not want to be riding a dead-head in a scary situation. I want a horse who recognizes that I respect their brain and emotions so we can work in partnership.
Working in one quadrant of operant conditioning you really limit yourself.
I have no idea how learned helplessnes and the prison system relate.
As far as +R, I dont think it really matters what quadrant you use, it matter which branch of the vagus nerve you engage.
@@WarwickSchiller a system for desensitization of horses I would like to see more of is counter conditioning(classical conditioning)- the pairing of a stimuli with reward. Positive reinforcement versus negative reinforcement surely would produce a different physiological response. If you are using pressure that's being taken away there would be the typical chemical response in an animals body -Adrenaline , noradrenaline and cortisol would be produced. If you are working in the Positive reinforcement quadrant the stress hormones would unlikely be present to that degree, while there is a motivating reward. Surely each approach would would affect the vagus nerve differently.
@@lauca6969 Actually research has shown that CAT-H (which is one of the techniques I used here) is actually more beneficial that +R when working with a frightened animal.
@@lauca6969 When an animal is learning, you must reward the "Try". When you lose the try, you're adding resistance to training, which slows the process and doesn't encourage the animal/human to make abstract connections which is when you get great leaps in comprehension and performance.
This is where Pure Positive excels. Too many people assume that PP means ONLY rewards, which it does not. Having worked with extremely abused dogs (fight busts, etc.), horses (One fell to her knees in fear that I had a cattle prod in my hand), and elephants (full contact, outside the US), I've seen how their brains are harmed through the restriction of movement.
In the case of the Pajan: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_crushing, it is meant to break the animal's soul. This is why I referenced our prison system, which is meant to do the same and is why the recidivision rate hovers at ~70%. IMHO prison reform and training theory should be working hand in hand to fix a broken system.
Using PP also does not mean you never say "No.", but it does mean staying out of Flight/Flight response, which shuts down the thinking part of the brain. Autistic kids' meltdowns are a good example of what happens when an amygdala is overstimulated. As a college professor, I have many ASD students and have become more and more aware of how fear plays into the learning process. My sensitivity to them has only come through recognizing my earlier experience with abused animals. It is all the same plumbing...so to speak.
I have my horse so we'll desensitized through engagement that I can clip his bridle path loose in the field and as long as he knows I'm paying attention he will stand quietly without a stitch of tack. I just call him over and ask him to stand while I clip. When I got him he had never been successfully haltered and had spent his life in such a small space he didn't know flight was an option so he would fight. He had learned only two things; that humans were predators who would trap and hurt him and that he could fight off humans more easily than other predators.
Clickbait title? Only for us *special* horse people..🤣
Thanks for another wonderful lesson Warwick! Super interesting
Too many things is confusing. Can you just tell me what to do and how to do it properly? I love your videos. Thank you
A million thank yous.
A seminal WS video! One of the best ever!
I had tried to desensitize my horse to plastic bags with your old method a few years ago, she has a huge fear of plastic bags and I may have made it worse, I don't know if I did it wrong but I had spent hours working with her and probably went backwards in her confidence. Lately I've just been ignoring the plastic bag issue and every once in a while when we're at an event and have our snacks in plastic bags, Stella knows that's where the treats come from and was actually interested in the bag and engaging with it looking for apples or grapes, even when the wind blew it around she never had a big reaction to the noises like she had done before, so just by doing nothing she has gotten better, I do want to try your new method on her though, I'm just worried about setting her back again.
Brilliant..!!! 👏 👏
I love how you look to outside of the box & think about the horse #journeyon20
This is really helpful.
Your videos always are so helpful, thank you!
Great video!! Can you please tell me if there are any spots left for auditors in the Hollister clinic?
I notice Clinton does a variation of the one you say you used to use. He doesn't take it away until they show signs of relaxing (at first he may take a freeze if that's all he can get, but he's working towards relaxation.) Seems quite valid, but I'm definitely appreciating the value of your newer paradigm.
I used these tricks on my wife... now i got two kids.
I discovered this with my first own horse, a Kosci Brumby. I didn't know there was a name for it.
I wish I could un-desensitise my horse so I could try the last method!
I loved this video. It helped me understand the vagal branches and how it relates my horse's freeze state. The video also helped me recognize how the theory applies to all mammals, including humans, which is very cool. Thanks so much for all you share! #journeyon20
These videos on polyvagal view really helped me with my incredibly anxious saddler mare, she had a tendency to freeze and shut down but after I applied knowledge from these video she became more open and connected to and more willing to relax instead of just freezing and shutting down.
#journey20
Flooding is just about the worst and sometimes most brutal method. Sadly it is still practiced.
Thank you for your free videos sir, I’ve learned a lot. Can you tell me where I can get a telescopic flag stick like yours?
You can buy it on his website warwickschiller.com. I love mine!
Thank you patti
DO you believe there is any positive and healthy way to use hobbling?
Thanks Warwick! I have a question- I am picking up a pretty well unhandled 2yo gelding from a breeder soon. I've been wracking my brain as to how I can make the trailering experience a positive one for him with this approach, as obviously I wont have the opportunity to build that connection before I go pick him up. Any tips?