I don't think that's really true anymore. Sure, in the past a bout of lust could lead to a shotgun wedding, but these days people in lust don't feel any pressure to get married. Also, I'd argue that the rise in divorce rates have more to do with societal attitudes toward marriage, single motherhood, etc than anything else.
What is love anyways? As much as we like to view ourself has evolved creatures we still fall prey to the most basic of quimical reactions in our brain, then we racionalize this feeling as "love"for a lack of a better term of temporal stupidity the fact that men is a custom animal and fear of loneliness does the rest. That is why you see the most proficient mind tied with the most vulgar of human beings or why some people stay in clearly abusive relationships out of "love".
The divorce rate is about people refusing to understand that once the kids come along, their marriage is about the kids, not them. "No-fault" divorce is this side of insane from the point of view of society wishing to make sure kids have a good future.
Divorce comes about because one or both parties involved have forgotten (or simply never learned) that any relationship requires work. It's easy to hop in the sac for a good time... for about an hour. Anyone can do that... It's a whole different ball-game when you have the choice to go home after work or spend the wee-hours sucking yourself into the bottom of every bottle you can get your mitts on with the guys... or gals... or anyone... It's especially difficult to go back HOME when you're already looking forward to "that" conversation about something else you've fucked up, because (apparently) being the only one of the two to take any responsibility and do anything MEANS everything is automagically YOUR own fault... SO you must've screwed it up. And it works the same imagery into your head whether your male or female in the relationship... AND regardless of whichever the mate is on the other side of that door to HOME... There are no great leaders, no perfect fixes and no good philosophies to solve all the problems. Sooner or later, being human, we ALL have a proclivity for fucking things up. AND that comes with "that" conversation that you don't want to have with someone... anyone... significant or otherwise. BUT if you're invested in the relationship, BOTH of you, and it's worth keeping... then you best just open the damn door and prepare to accept your share of responsibility, support your mate of choice while sharing that responsibility with them... AND pursue putting further work and investment (sweat-equity is a good term) to keep up the relationship. TOO many people jump from sac to marriage "to do the right thing"... or some equally BS excuse. Stop it. Understand that sex is dangerous by nature. It carries a great deal more gravity than just a simple act of biology that's kind of fun and cool. Start taking responsibility for yourself, and the choices you make, and you'll find your life smoothing out considerably... It takes TWO to tango, and every animation I've attempted where there's only one looks fucking stupid... It takes TWO to fuck up a marriage, or any other relationship. ;o)
First day in a film course, the professor recommended to not pay much attention to the Oscars. He said American Beauty is pure propaganda, and that is not what art is about. Art is about the revelation of an absolute truth. As Sir Joshua Reynolds said, truth is the natural taste or appetite of the human mind. Generally, artists today don't believe in truth. They believe in self expression. The works that stand the test of time are the ones that are constructed around a truth.
SliceOfScott As an aspiring artist, my goal is to create stories with meaning and that reflect reality. Not self-righteous celebrations of basically nothing important with no greater meaning and no real world context. IE the difference between Star Wars: A New Hope and Star Wars: That Number Eight One. For example, the story I want to tell right out the gate (once I figure out my small business model) literally holds the working title "Parable", and while that likely won't be the final name it's interesting to note.
SPOILERS The closet homosexual marine killed the guy in American Beauty, not the wife. He thought that Spacey's character was having a homosexual relationship with his son, then came on to Spacey, assuming he was gay, then got rejected and in order to hide the secret that he was gay from getting out, killed Spacey's character. He projected this complete hetero alpha male persona to the rest of the world, even though he was in the closet the whole time. Like Spacey's character, he was living as someone he really didn't want to be. Most of the characters in that film were projecting a persona that was false, like the cheerleader that Spacey's character falls for. She pretends to be some overly sexualized bad girl, when in reality she's still a virgin and completely embarrassed about her half-hearted attempts to seduce her friend's father. The son of the marine is depicted as being the weird outsider, yet he's the most comfortable in his own skin and during quite a few of his scenes points out the hypocrisy of others. I think the movie was basically saying that the image of the average white, American suburban life is a sham.
True. It's also about the shallow materialistic consumerism people in western nations are pushed to follow: you've got to have that huge house and two huge cars to impress random strangers that you "made it", and have some social status, that you've spent years trying to climb! Lester is happiest when he's working for minimum wage at the fast food store without the pressure. Carolyn is miserable despite being a successful real estate agent. The weird kid next door is happy with simple things in life, and is ironically the most mentally stable person in the film, who then inspires Lester.
Jolly Misanthrope "suburban American life is a aham", when you're a shallow hollow person, many aren't. It's a very Hollywood view of what's wrong with America of that time.
Yeah, "suburban America life is a sham and boring" is now sort of my trigger for wondering how spoiled is the person that's saying it. Life doesn't hand you boring or even survival most of the time. Boring is a luxury.
@Jolly Misanthrope What do you believe the movie's aim to communicate? Is it an issue of image contrast with reality? or Is it the strive for beauty or search for beauty? or Is beauty a meaningless facade and a reality lacking the causal effort to beauty? I think my last question was more of the idea the filmmakers were aiming to achieve. This idea of false beauty and real beauty to be a form of beauty in itself; such a thought they view of themselves and white suburban communities. The journey of Lester and the rest of the cast working tirelessly to live a lie and / or maintain a facade of who they are and the life they live. Then the characters coming to terms with undeniable reality; throwing them to conflict with the situation and themselves. I think the filmmakers were doing a deconstruction the movie 'Its A Wonderful Life,' having flip the structural themes 'reflection, work, and growth' to 'false reflection, to give up, and acceptance.' Lester (like the rest of cast) worked very hard for the ideal success, but only achieve dysfunction for their efforts. The film's the resolution is for the characters to do nothing but accept their reality as a means to achieve "growth." I disagree with such themes; and find it frighteningly disgusting.
The English Patient was lauded by the critics but I thought was one of the most boring movies Ive ever seen. American Beauty I felt spoke to a certain truth that many men feel today. .i.e midlife crisis, sexual frustration, the daily 9-5 grind.
What was the cure? The most I can gather from the film; its main solution was a theme of "acceptance." At that time Hollywood view western culture to be too rigid and conservative; even then (as well of the present) this theme of "acceptance" is constant in the media and academia. For 'American Beauty' Kevin's character Lester achieving "acceptance" was portrayed as beautiful and good; where I find this notion disgusting. I dislike the movie and prefer that Lester took a more proactive effort to correct himself. I wanted to see Lester put a plan together, a vivacity reinvigorated, and a solid path into a meaningful future. I get the feeling that the story was a deconstruction of the movie 'Its A Wonderful Life, ' where for 'American Beauty' worked backwards in its structural themes. Lester had to work hard to put himself and his family into dysfunction; as a resolution he did nothing but accept the reality of situation and stop trying.
Maybe The English Patient isn’t for everyone, but imo it a great film.. Masterpiece.. It’s not a love story, or about betrayal.. It’s an indictment against how the ugliness of war makes us all very ugly too.. Set against the backdrop of the ugliest moment in human history.. And when I say backdrop, I mean it!.. Hardly a shot fired throughout the film, which is also a masterstroke..
"When I have nobody to root for, I get bored with the movie" I totally agree. I felt the same way about the movie Annhiliation with Natalie Portman, I couldn't root for any of the characters and really couldn't wait for the movie to be over.
You might want to try American Beauty again. It's weird to say none of the characters had any growth. All four main characters undergo vast changes. I can't really think of any movie that does it better, because each of the arcs center on the same internal struggles but resolve in different directions. It's also the opposite of nihilistic. The characters all learn to find meaning in their lives despite being in what appears to be cruel and chaotic situations.
Undergoing vast changes is not the same as growth. If the premise is suburbanites are boring and constrained and only acting immorally will make them happy, it's already a bad movie.
Good thing the movie is the opposite of that. The characters start thinking that acting immorally is the only thing that will make them happy. Lester rejects this by the end of the movie and learns that happiness is in his family right in front of him. That sounds like growth to me.
Reward - something given or received in return or recompense for service, merit, hardship, etc. He happens to be killed at the end for other reasons. It isn't a reward for not giving into his fantasies. His reward was happiness. But whatever. You've made up your mind about the movie. It is definitely more in line with what you claim you want than you're giving it credit for.
One of the tags of American Beauty is "look closer", a small sign on Lester's (Spacey) work station. I would cordially invite you to do so. At the beginning of the movie Lester is a bored, lost middle-aged man. The only really happy time in his life was as a teenager, flipping burgers and getting high. He is reminded of this and stirred into action when he falls for a teenage girl - something he would have done as a teenager. He says something like "it's never too late to get it back". He pursues her, his personal attractiveness, kicks back against the authorities at work like a rebellious teenager. He gets a job flipping burgers and buys a car he used to dream of as a youngster - a flashy red Pontiac Firebird. He has escaped from his miserable middle-aged existence, filled with dreary responsibilities, into the carefree lifestyle of a teenager. Did you miss all of this? At the close of the movie he realises his mistake through his love for his daughter and, when the object of his desire offers herself to him, he sidesteps her advances and starts to treat her, appropriately, as a parent would a child. He clearly sees that his previous dissatisfaction could have been cured by appreciating love and joy in the little things around him - "look closer". Arc much? I think Jung said something like "modern people have trouble believing in God because they don't look low enough." The film is filled with people who are desperately reaching for authenticity in the wrong places. His wife in success and surface appearance, his daughter in looking more attractive, her sexy friend in being desired and famous. All lost except the "crazy and creepy" boy next door (Jeez, man!) who is the only truly authentic, indeed spiritually enlightened, character. His character, combined with Lester's awakening at the end, point to the "meaning" in the film - see Beauty/God in the little things (plastic bag scene) and stop flailing about like empty, selfish arse-holes. But, then again, I might be wrong. (But I do agree it was technically brilliant.) "You poopyhead, you!" (comment from 31/1/2018)
The issue David might have with this movie may be similar to my own. The issue is its thematic structure and overall message to achieve (false) growth and call it beauty. 'American Beauty' is a deconstruction of the movie 'Its A Wonderful Life;' where the filmmakers flipped the structural themes. Lester along with the rest of cast (to variable degrees) are hard workers; who aim for the ideal success and / or lies (facades). They work themselves into dysfunction; and as a resolve, they give up to accept their reality. That is main theme of the story is acceptance void of effort. All of Lester's efforts involve a falsehood of some type, whether his efforts is to be for success or escape. By the film's end Lester achieves his tranquil happiness by no effort given just acceptance and some reflection on happier times. In addition to that kid taking the picture of his bloody corpse and only focusing on his smile is very telling. The mistake most people miss and the filmmakers themselves don't understand. A person can accept the reality of their problems forever; and it won't ever change a thing. You can work yourself into disarray and suffering even death. You can work yourself out of it too. And the chance you find yourself unable to be free of such troubles, never give up! Die trying if you must.
I'm fine with a movie where the main character is terrible as long as the movie itself recognizes how terrible he is and is doing something with it. Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, A Clockwork Orange, etc. all are aware that their protagonists are vile people but are trying to use them to show us something or make us see the darker side of ourselves or show some kind of theme. American Beauty has this problem where it tries to tell us, "Yeah, man, the suburban life is like, so boring!" but it's solution is far more deplorable than the "problem" it's trying to solve. It tries to be a movie about some kind of "beauty" but it's only if you take that word and bastardize it into meaning something horrible.
Great points. I like good looks at villains, but I don't like it when a movie presents actions as *good.* Antiheroes are interesting precisely because there are actions they do which are explicitly bad or they explicitly lack particular virtues.
Travis Bickle isn't vile. He's like an idiot that has no place in the world and struggles to have positive adult interactions. The movie presents a decaying, vile underbelly of a city an he just happens to be the kind of guy it creates or neglects. Not saying I'm the final view on it, hell I haven't seen the film in a while. I just think Travis is characterized by being naive and unable to steer his life.
The English Patient was boring. 2 hours of Ralph Fiennes is having an affair, and then at the end he is burnt. Plus the pacing of the film is really slow. It just makes it a chore to watch. American Beauty isn’t really great either. It’s fairly creepy. A film where Kevin Spacey’s character is having a midlife crisis and fantasizes about sleeping with one of his daughters friends. That’s where the creepy part comes in. Though it’s the repressed homosexual Marine that kills Spacey’s character because of him thinking Spacey’s character was gay when he wasn’t. I could get in more details as to why the films aren’t that great or whatnot, but I just gave a reason or two why I’m not as impressed by the films as others are, but also I think you did a great job saying why they aren’t that good David.
Thank you for pointing out the scary sexualization of a child in American beauty. It honestly means a lot when people point it out instead of praising it as being deep and artistic when it’s actually just super disturbing and gross
To be fair though, Lester doesn't have sex with her when he had the chance. When she confesses to be a virgin, he stops, as he feels guilty about taking advantage of a vulnerable young girl.
A M Oh, Hollywood is fucked for sure. Full of degenerate extreme left wing jewish cultural marxists producing increasingly bizaare and pretentious movies each decade. What other industry would known child sexual perverts and criminals like Roman Polanski and Woody Allen be welcomed with open arms after everyone knows what degenerates they are?!
I find it a bit weird that characters in movies need to be sympathetic in order for you to enjoy the movie. This is a rather "new" idea since in the olden times of Shakespeare that wasn't really a consideration. Macbeth and Richard 3. don't really have any likable characters and yet, they are great plays/stories. I think it limits storytelling if we HAVE to root for a "good" character. We really should just focus on the narration and if it's believable and the characters "make sense" and is internally consistent.
Exactly. In Macbeth, even if the characters lack morality, that doesn't mean the story and its presentation lack morality. The book treats Macbeth like someone who is doing something that isn't exactly morally right. You could say the same for movies like Raging Bull and A Clockwork Orange. The problem with American Beauty and English Patient is that it shows immorality and then proceeds to have the story cheerlead said immorality.
@@DVSPress thats exactly what the story is about. he commmitted all these vile acts yet we are supposed to feel bad about because of how pointless it all is.
Mike Spearwood Oh, sorry. The other one was The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies. A bit random I know, but the whole trilogy was a travesty and I finally got fed up half way through the last one. Walked straight out, dumped my popcorn and went for a pint of lagar down the pub.
PoorlyPaidPoet I've literally never seen any of those hobbit movies. As soon as I heard they were going to make two movies, then a trilogy, from what was apparently a relatively short children's story, I saw the writing on the wall. Hence, I've not heard one good word said by anyone about them!
Kevin Spaceys character changes at the end and no longer has sexual desire to the teenage girl. The wife's betrayal and the vanity of the daughter are showed in a bad light, not as something desirable and good. You really should watch the movie again, I think you would enjoy it more a second time...
If the marine's son that was supposed to be an outsider, non-conformist, had actually been written well and played by a different actor, it could have added something to the film.
Instead of seeing "The English Patient" again. Why not read the book and see if it has any redeeming revelations that make you understand the characters more.
I agree with you, especially about American Beauty. The English Patient kinda tricked me. The extramarital affair was distasteful but the movie was so long and slow, and they kept saying it was love, so I forgot it was cheating and came away with a romantic feeling. I'm curious what you thought of Closer, with Natalia Portman and Jude Law. I liked it and thought it captured the modern amorality in a non-flattering way.
I agree with you that it is difficult to get through movies where one doesn't have any positive feelings about any of the characters. In general I think part of the problem comes from efforts to give characters flaws that completely miss or overshoot the mark. It's like the horror movie where you start rooting for the baddie because all the characters are so annoying and it becomes comedy instead of horror.
What are your thoughts on a movie like Pulp Fiction where all the characters would be considered ""bad"? Or the TV shoiw Firefly where some of their jobs are morally "bad"?
Pulp fiction is about Grace, changing one's path, and the consequences of refusing the call to do so. Characters redeem and are redeemed, and the one who refuses the call dies.
This is exactly why Ronald Moore's Battlestar Galactica had me apathetic about the characters' fates by the end of the series. They all had their extended moments of just being completely horrible people. Cloverfield is an example of a movie that I could not get into because the characters were so unlikable. I really just wanted them to all die so the movie would be over. Come to think of it, I think everything I've seen by JJ Abrams has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Call me old fashioned, but I like good "good guys" and bad "bad guys."
What is your opinion of Mad Men? In my experience, when I started watching the series I hated every single character. I despised how immoral, nihilistic and superficial they all were but, as the series progress (specially during season 4) I really started to like all the characters. I even started to like Don. I don't know what happened there. Watching Mad Men has been a really uncanny experience for me.
Also, because X movie equals Y meaning doesn't mean it's objectively good. That way of thinking makes no sense. Stating that if you didn't like the movie you must not of understood the deeper meaning. I may not know the meaning behind the painting but I can still be critical of it's artistic design.
Fight Club always seemed to have a conceptual contradiction. It was anti-conformity, yet at the same time suggesting an alternate form of behavior to conform to.
Not really, you're not meant to align with the main character's radical approach. I mean, the movie isn't even subtle about this. Same thing with Scarface, I don't understand why so many people worship the protagonists of those films when they're portrayed as being in the wrong in such an obvious fashion.
@Jolly Misanthrope - I disagree with your sentiment. It's criticizing Tyler Durden's attitude just as much as it is criticizing his former life. It finds both of them to be contemptible in their own ways.
I am happy that you shared your insight on American Beauty. Your one of the few reviewers I agree fully with on it. The acting was fine and the visuals were good too, but it was a despicable, ugly story with unlikeable characters. 1999 was a decent year for movies we had The Sixth Sense, and The Green Mile which were far more worthy winners with better stories, acting and just all the way around better movies. Both were nominated for Best Picture and one of them should have won. Two great movies passed over for a story about a guy who’s a pedophile. How the movie became a hit let alone won Oscars amazes me. Who would want to see that story let alone be entertained by it? The Oscars have said if they could re-vote a Best Picture winner they would have chosen All the Presidents Men over Rocky in 1976. 76 was a great year for movies and four out of the five nominees I felt were worthy of Best Picture win including Rocky which got top prize. But if they can take a great movie like Rocky and say another nominee that year was more deserving of Best Picture they should have done the same in 99. The aforementioned two 99 movies were way better. The Insider and Cider House Rules were also nominated. I haven’t seen either but they have got to be better than American Beauty. One of Oscars biggest mistakes in my opinion just like awarding Shakespeare in Love Best Picture over Saving Private Ryan the previous year.
I watched American Beauty when I was 13, Even though the film didn't age that well, back then it really spoke to me seeing my life being in a luxury prison called the suburbs because that's what almost every 90s kids grew up experiencing at the time. Now because of the economic crisis, that prison called the suburbs is much more desirable to what people are experiencing now as they are just having a hard enough time just paying the bills and surviving. I don't think the film portrays any of the "bad" behaviors in a good light. What it is is portraying the extreme opposite reaction of stifling social norms where we can't be who we really are nor can we be loved or accepted. Society is always making us put up a front. Even little things where people ask each other how are you and they couldn't care how they are doing is all a charade and I think thats where the movie tagline Look closer comes from. Although Kevin Spacey is despicable in real life, I really enjoyed the movie's message about self-acceptance because he realizes what matters to him is his desire to be with his family before the colonel kills him. That's my 2 cents.
Hello! I will extend my thoughts about "The English Patient" quite long, I'm afraid. Therefore, I'll start at once. I think the main couple truly love one to each other. We can see lust, yes... but also, remorse, the sensation of not being enough for the other, also the misunderstanding in consider, Laszlo, shallowness and just pretending, as a lack of commitement from (Claire, Kate? Not sure); and the female character in do not understand the real reasons why Laszlo is the way he is and how far he goes to bring his emotions up in terms of being "expressive" enough. There are two quite different personalities for some reasons bounded or fond of it. Is she truly speaking a "cheater"? She and her husband are, likely, close to be best friends rather than a loving, caring, (or not) romantic/sexual couple! What I guess it happens, according to the dialogues and the few actions among the other characters (Dafoe, Binoche, etc) is the fact that They can achieve (at different levels, must be said) some sort of redemption o lesson, even through Laszlo! Dafoe could have easily killed him and finish his revenge, but What for? He would have not punish anyone because the main character had already been punished and not redeemed. In Dafoe's eyes, at the very end, Laszlo's misbehavours deserves pity, not cruelty. By some kind of euthanasya, Binoche's character does not redeem or put Laszlo's suffers away... She simply makes peace with the cruel fact of death. As well as she suffered the lost of her best friend in a very absurd and possibly avoidable way, she can see how "neutral" or arbitrious death is... She's a quite optimistic character, but she cannot makes life more liveable than what already is, just as she cannot kill what's already dead. Hope to see more of your TH-cam videos soon... Fare well!
Leonel Ramiro Barreiro Moreno U dissected that very well. I completely agree. Imo, I always loved it and I only first saw it nearly 2 years ago. I watched Fargo at the same time but didn’t really like it that much. It was ok, but underwhelming. The English Patient was fulfilling in every single way, though, and I adore it. In my top 5 favourite films for sure
Agree completely. I'm not familiar with channel, but it seems like this review is basically moral pandering to some (suggested ) target audience. Maybe it's a Christian channel on the low. Idk. Either way, very shallow analysis. We're humans and when we experience those kind of passions (which it doesn't seem like he's ever had) the lines between love and lust are blurred. However, they are most definitely "in" love. And The whole movie is metaphor for the punishment of acting out on these passions. For both of them. The film/book is fully aware of the moral consequences. That's why its so romantic...
Your Connected Are those shows glorifying that? I enjoy them, but I never cheered for the protagonists and their actions, I just find it to be an interesting character study.
Mr. Robot I can understand. But in House of Cards, the show never agrees with the main characters. You're supposed to find them deplorable and wicked. The whole point of the show is government isn't about voting and your politician doing what you asked. It's exposing how government is really far more about back room deals and agreements for the sake of advancing one's career.
I haven't seen those movies but this reminds me of The Devil Rejects. Same thing. Your supposed to care about the psychopaths in the movie and I really didn't.
I have no idea why you think the actions of the character in American Beauty are presented as "good." They seem fun at first and it speaks to a rebellious streak in a lot of people: He gives his boss the finger, he starts living life in the moment, does drugs, has fun, etc. We sympathize for a while because it's an escapist daydream for many who are bored with their lives, but as the movie progresses, we start to see the effects of his lifestyle decisions, which are negative. In the end he realizes his life was pretty much fine.
Nope, you don't remember much about American Beauty. How about watching it and trying again? Hint: movie about ephebophilia is not the same as movie promoting ephebophilia. Same as movie about thieves doesn't promote stealing, movie about serial killer doesn't promote murder and movie about Hitler doesn't promote nazism. These are just stories about these people. You can obviously watch a movie anyway you want, but it's pretty wierd in my humble opinion to watch it like it was a baseball game - just for cheering for your team. Also American Beauty is full of flawed, often broken characters but I wouldn't say they're evil people.
Unfortunately most people can't hide behind "identity crisis" much beyond say 19. By that measure Hitler, Stalin, and Mao had one heck of an identity crisis. In washing away the idea of culpability, we wash away the concept of evil.
They are "Bad" people. Their "Bad" actions are seen as good throughout the film. In true nihilistic fashion, none of it meant anything at the end anyway.
Just because characters are "bad" doesn't make them evil in the same sense of Snidely Whiplash, twisting the mustache for emphasis of just how dastardly they really can be... These are Irredeemable characters. It's one thing to present characters with flaws, even to the point of broken... For a total train-wreck, look no further than House MD, or Adrian Monk... BUT these characters KNOWINGLY STRUGGLE with their flaws... In the English Patient and American Beauty, you (audience) get NONE of that. There's no deeper struggle, no attempt to redeem one's self OR self image. It's just a heaping helping of degeneration and a leisurely topping of "F*** it!", so... while you do have a point that a story about Nazis doesn't necessarily promote them, it doesn't necessarily condemn them either... Some of us (audience) far more appreciate the open struggles of someone who KNOWS he's flawed and broken over someone who just quits trying and welcomes becoming a degenerate piece of sh*t. ;o)
I don't see those three as having an identity crisis. They all were convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that they were right in what they did. Saying they had an identity crisis, at least in how I'm defining it for the sake of this discussion, would mean they really didn't want to be dictators in the first place, and that some kind of social pressure pushed them into that role. I doubt that was ever the case.
I'd be interested in hearing your current extended thoughts on American Beauty. Particularly because it's commonly used as an example of excellent screenwriting online and in academia. Also, the varied characters arches/morals offer opportunity interesting analysis on not only how they were executed, but what they communicate.
I loved American Beauty. I enjoyed it because to my eyes it shed some light on something that I think is true and many people ignore it: things aren't what they seem. The movie also shows (though often in a dramatized fashion) things that almost all of us experience but rarely or never talk about and we will even act derisively towards someone if we know about this dirty little thing about them. Like one of the first shots in the film is of a man masturbating in the shower, a bit of a shock but it's something that people do. If you are reading this comment are you smirking right now? Not completely unlikely that you rubbed one out within the 12 months. It showed a nice looking home in a nice neighborhood which on the outside looks so warm and wholesome. On the inside not so much. Lots of homes are like that. Hopefully most people grew up in a happy home. I didn't but you'd never know that from looking at my home from the street. It's not as nice as the home in the movie but it's wasn't a dump either. To me I appreciated that honesty of the movie. The proper and polite wife, remember how pleasant she was when you first saw her in the garden at the beginning of the movie? The more you see her you realize she's shallow, selfish and even callous. Know anyone like that in real life? They know how to be cordial but it's a thin veneer to a rotten person. And yes Sapcey's character was a despicable father but some fathers are. In the end of the movie it showed that these were once young happy people in love and life over time has changed them to what they have become. It happens. That's real. The phony front that people show and the dysfunctional that lies behind it is real. It's even common. I didn't get the impression that the movie was promoting or endorsing that but highlighting it. I can't read the minds of the film makers but that was my impression. There's a place for stories like that and they can be very well done like American Beauty was. To be clear that is not my "preferred" style of story telling. For example I loath what has happened to Star Wars. That is a story that should have stayed more about heroes and villains ... good and evil ... heroes that you can route for and be characters that can be admired. There's a place for both kinds of stories and I can appreciate them both.
A more recent movie that I watched and didn't really enjoy was Knock Knock. I guess I didn't like the main character who was actually not that bad of a guy getting screwed throughout the whole movie. If you have seen it, I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on it.
As much as I love American Beauty, knowing what we know know now about Kevin Spacey, it adds an extra level of creepiness to the overall movie. As for Ricky’s dad, I didn’t pick up on him being a repressed homosexual. Not saying your wrong but I didn’t get those vibes. However it’s been a long time since I last saw it.
Do Micheal bay movies. I would like to know why people hate his movies and not care for the characters. It has gotten so bad even China is starting to catch on.
Yeah men. I mean, like dude there are, err heroes, like, Cade Yeager. He's an inventor man.. with like, a daughter......... WHO IS HOT. He has Ideals, and a dream and he wants to put his (Hot) Daughter through college. You have to understand.......Man!
Lindsay Ellis has a somewhat ongoing series about Michael Bay's films (Transformers in particular) called "The Whole Plate" where she dissects the movie and the characters very thoroughly. It's well worth a watch.
Hi David, Love your videos and the way you articulate arguments even when they disagree with other opinions. I'd love to hear your thoughts on The Fountain (2006) as I don't feel enough people discus this movie and I'd be really interested to hear what you think of the movie. Keep up the great work!
I enjoyed AB when I first saw it but I was in my late teens at the time. I saw it again recently and was far less impressed. It’s far too “on the nose” in its commentary and doesn’t know whether it wants to be a drama or a satire so ultimately ends up as a fairly shallow version of both. I had the same issue watching “Black Mirror” recently, particularly the Charlie Brooker written episodes. He doesn’t know how to write social commentary or moral tales without hitting the audience over the head with his ideas.
Based on some facts you get wrong about it, it's clearly been awhile since you've seen American Beauty. Characters do have arcs and people end up sort of suffering what's coming to them in the end. Look closer.
It’s also been a while since he’s seen The English Patient. His summaries of both movies were incredibly shallow, which is not really fair to portray them as such
I was curious to hear your thoughts, as a writer, on the works of Jim Butcher. I recently picked up his book "The Aeronaut's Windlass", and despite having heard a lot of good things about him I cannot help but be unimpressed. The dialogue is hammy, the various subplots make the overarching story feel schizophrenic, the characters are unlikable in an unredemptive manner. Overall, it feels like a cheesy 'young adult' novel pretending to be legitimate fantasy-fiction.
If you disliked the American House of Cards (which I have never seen), I wonder whether you have checked out the English original serials (House of Cards, To Play The King and The Final Cut) or the original novel House Of Cards by Michael Dobbs (similar to the serials but with another ending)...
Shhhhhh.... ssshhhhhhh.... don't tell your friends. Maybe few people will see this video. These are wonderful movies. I don't care if you are a Gibb. The English patient is a movie about Love that you just cannot control. Like if You've always done things wrong in this life And suddenly you realize It and see the light. Look you even have the guitars!
Jolly Misanthrope - “It was one of those days when it's a minute away from snowing and there's this electricity in the air, you can almost hear it. And this bag was, like, dancing with me. Like a little kid begging me to play with it. For fifteen minutes. And that's the day I knew there was this entire life behind things, and... this incredibly benevolent force, that wanted me to know there was no reason to be afraid, ever. Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in.” Pure Fondue Bukkake party.
Family Guy did a good spoof of that scene where at the end God is irate because the character is obsessing over something so idiotic when there are actually far more complex things that exist that a human could ponder.
You wont like Three Billboards lol, bit overrated imho, if you ever do watch it I'd like to hear your opinion, even if it's just a passing comment on a video about something else.
I hated American Beauty because I was raped as a young girl. The main character disgusted me.. His lust for the teenager was a trigger for me. When I saw it I was pregnant with my first child and I felt very unattractive, so I’m sure my emotions had something to do with it. Anyway, the movie made me sick.
Not missing much. American Beauty is pretty overt in its criticisms of American society, nothing really clever to be found there. Besides you can find photos and gifs of Thora Birch showing her amazing rack online, without having to watch the film. :)
I am surprised to say that I enjoyed your video, liked and subscribed, and yet I disagree with you on most of your points, but you articulated them well. I got your point, succinctly. These are two of the movies that I love very much. I love them so much that I would put them on my top 10 of all time (my number 1 being "Harold and Maude.") My husband's favorite movie is, "A Clockwork Orange." Talk about moral ambiguity! I would love to discuss this further with you. You sound fascinating! Keep in touch, please!
Can you please review Three billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri? I really didn't like that movie while so many seem to love it. One of the reason was that i really disliked the main character. Next to that i thought it was poorly directed and had a bad script. Would love see your thoughts on this one. Keep up the good work! Really appreciate our content.
I liked American beauty. The main character was intentionally portrayed as a complete loser in the beginning. The movie was basically about his enlightenment and redemption, and the other characters who basically didn't change were foils for him. At least, that's how I see it.
He wasn't enlightened; he was expressing a Marxist fantasy that traditional life is boring and unfulfilling: he had a mid-life crisis where he wished to be young (thus showing the audience what a waste having a family is), then decided not to give into his pedophilic fantasy (at the behest of the studio; originally he was supposed to sleep with the girl), then is rewarded with death, because nothing happens for any reason ever, there is no higher law, and social institutions are both harmful and without purpose. In the end, it was all meaningless, which is why he talks about "beauty" - his choices and those of the others around him (including his wife's cheating, which he seems not to mind) are purely aesthetic in their meaning.
+David Stewart I have a different interpretation. Yes, his desire to be attractive to the high school girl was the inciting event, but as he worked out, he discovered that improving himself was its own reward. At some point, he wasn't doing it for her anymore. Moreover, I don't see this movie as a screed against "traditional life." By the end, he realized how much he loved his wife and daughter and regretted the fact that they were estranged. Death wasn't his "reward," nor was it portrayed that way, although I definitely agree that the studio made a wise decision to not have him actually sleep with the girl. I don't know why you're saying the movie's message is "nothing happens for a reason and there's no higher meaning." Where are you getting that from? The most hopeful interpretation is that he basically transcended. That is, he learned the lessons he was suppose to learn in this life and was immediately ushered to the next. The camera panning away at the end implies that he's rising toward the heavens. The ex-marine is the one who went to hell--that of his own making. Finally, I don't think the movie is trying to portray some social constructionist view of beauty. The point is not that beauty and ugliness are just a matter of interpretation. Rather, it is possible to find beauty in the midst of the profanities of life, and those rare moments should be treasured.
I have more time for AB than for TEP because AB flat-out doesn't tell you that these are good people. They're just people: exploitative, messy, rapacious, vulnerable, strangers to themselves, and so forth. And sometimes hilariously funny. But TEP screams "love me, love me!" all the way through when really it's about nothing other than horrendous narcissism. And the emotionally manipulative sacrifice of Kevin Whately's minor but important character is as unspeakable as it's predictable. The film casts a very cold, patronising eye over the lower orders, over funny little people who aren't quite like "us", whoever the in-crowd are. And they're all expendable of course. Really not Anthony Minghella's finest hour, whatever he thought of it.
David, I completely agree with your reviews of both films! You hit it right on the nail, bravo! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 In both American Beauty and The English Patient they are filled with morally reprehensible and unlikable characters. They are all scumbags who give into their desires without caring about hurting other people in the process. I've only seen them once and I may consider seeing them again to see if my opinion of them has changed. Anyway, keep up the great work! 🙂
It's no mystery why Hollywood pushes the most morally repugnant films for these awards. Oftentimes I'll see previews and I can tell right off the bat what will be in the Oscars conversation just by means of it being revolting.
I was very young and thought the Academy Awards really meant a lot when I went to see The English Patient but thanks to that movie realized the oppsite. Never watching it again.
Mark Twain commenting on one Fennimore Cooper's books wrote that reading it he wished all the characters would go off and get drowned together. So many "deep" movies these days...
But nowadays, most young people confound sexual arousal with being inlove or feeling passion for someone, and spent time saying shallow "love you"'s that don't mean nothing. And you see that in Twilight Torture saga and 50 shades of persona 3 myself please, lol, and sjw and women like those cheesy movies. What I mean with persona 3 myself is: avvesione.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/persona_3_the_movie_1-makoto-protagonist-hero-summon-gun-sees.jpg -is a metaphor. Please don't do this. PS: And who doesn't have lustful dreams or thoughts about sexy teens, most of them behave like whores anyway and lose virginity much early that most of us did. I didn't say kids or early teens, that's too sick. Or doesn't mean, I think about rapping or become a pedophile, by having sex with teens. What I meant have lustful dreams with teens, of course 18 years and higher, having sex or rapping is another. is normal to have lustful desires for sexy women, when you are a straight guy still in his sexual years. lol. I saw the movies a couple of times, and I never felt the need to rape a teen or treat women as objects, sexual attraction for me is a normal thing, and important thing, not only the lovey dovey thing, if you don't have sexual attraction or think her as an interesting person to date and to know, you and most of us, wouldn't be compelled to interact with the opposite sex in the first place, and the same applies to them. We are all sexual animals in some way, demonize that is pointless, but that doesn't means I approve pedophile and rapping someone, while I've nieces and nephews, I don't see them that way, would be sick and gross.
I liked American Beauty, I'm not a drama guy myself. But for me the movie felt like a melodrama about a guy having a middle life crisis. Aswell "Lost in the Translation" as a similar theme, and I like them both. What i your thoughts about "Lost in Translation". In American Beauty, I love the Mena Suvari scene ;P. static.kino.de/wp-content/gallery/american-beauty-1999/american-beauty-mena-suvari-4-rcm0x1920u.jpg - and in Lost in Translation, has the best opening scene ever, I call the 2 best suns to awake to, the Scarlett butt scene, lol. media.sandiegoreader.com/img/photos/2012/10/11/1_Sofia_Coppola_John_Kacere_Lost_In_Translation_Scarlett_Johansson_Underpants_t500x266.jpg?7a7fa8cea0f06a2baeb6a0659b218cc3ddf87e94 - obviously I didn't like those movies, only for those, of course. lol PS: I don't agree you entirely about bad characters, I don't need to relate with all the characters I see, to enjoy them or the story they tell, like I said, I'm not a drama lover myself, and I know dramas and melodramas need relatable characters. I don't dislike Lester, back then, I wasn't a middle age, back an young adult, so I wasn't passing a middle life crisis myself, lol. But like "Lost in Translation", I felt sympathetic with him, he had a boring job, a bitchy wife, an emo emotionless kid, an overall boring life and he tried, like Bob in Lost in Translation, escape that shithole that he was in and return to those young adult stage, I can't blame the guy, lol. And the all opprossed gay thing about the military guy, is a reflection about many supposedly alpha dudes that have unhappy marriages, are mean to their wifes and kids and themselves are opprossed gays, I'm not an opprossed gay, so I don't relate to that too. I saw the movie as a critic of american family and maybe way of life, the same way Simpsons, Family Guy and American dad, does. I may be wrong, and that was the point of that movie, in my opinion in that point, I think it did a good job. But for me, what you said about those movies, applies to "50 shades of Bullcrap" and "Twilight Torture saga". i1.ytimg.com/vi/hEXsOOVWuGA/maxresdefault.jpg
I love your take. I wish I knew if you were an atheist. What I mean is one can share your lament of the nihilism in these films and sill set one's sights on a secular rationally derived ethics.
I did not like American Beauty either, and for much the same reasons. It was a really disagreeable watch. I never did watch the English patient. The only thing that I remember was that the trailers were unappealing back then, so I cannot comment on it.
Seems to be somewhat empty moralising about movies that are a bit more complex than just ‘bad people doing bad things’. American Beauty is a film about unhappy people who gradually realise they’re unhappy and flail around trying to do something about it until a misunderstanding brings that all to a tragic halt.
David Stewart they may well be boring yes. Not a big fan of either of those movies, I’d rather watch Star Wars myself. But I don’t think they are just nihilistic drivel at all. I dislike the use of suburbia as a ‘hate landscape’ in which no good may come because that’s so obviously bogus and drips with liberal prejudice. But to dismiss the characters and the movie because no-one is ‘virtuous’ seems to me to miss the point by a country mile.
The "postmodern" feeling you are reading comes not from any sort of deliberate attempt to gloss over morality. It comes from being pretentious as only a teenager can be pretentious. I'm referring mostly to American Beauty, here. What is wrong and evil with the world? All that is stereotypically normal and good. (Stick in gratuitous 1950s references made by people who never lived in the 1950s but only saw it in Leave it to Beaver reruns.) Nothing normal is good. Normal is "inauthentic". Everything abnormal is "authentic". Normal people are hypocrites, because they are truly abnormal on the inside. Abnormal people are authentic because they live their lives abnormally - which is the new normal. As Lester starts living his life more abnormally, the happier he becomes. Not that we feel happy about it, as we watch his character deteriorate. That's why it's all an adolescent screed on what it's like to grow up as the child of an upper middle class American couple. They have everything they could want, materially, but are existentially unhappy and project that unhappiness on everyone else. Only an adolescent boy would regard fantasizing lustfully about an underage teenage girl as "authentic". So it's "postmodern" only in the sense that it appears to reject morality. It doesn't reject morality so much as it is ignorant of it. It appears to criticize "consumerism" only in the stereotypical way that any teenager does: seeing material wealth as "shallow", entirely ignorant of the huge amount of effort and dedication that is necessary on the part of everyone in society to keep everyone alive and well. Any teenager who grows up having no material needs or wants only feels spiritual needs/wants, and takes wealth for granted, deeming it shallow consumerism/materialism. "Consumerism", if we must call it that, is "shallow" unless you live in a nation where there is no food to buy: a story currently being played out in Venezuela, but sadly repeats itself over and over again in too many nations. It is pretentious because it attempts to be a critique, but it instead reveals a vast ignorance of human nature. The abnormal people have no flaws except being abnormal, which isn't even regarded as a flaw in the film. Only normal people have flaws, and that flaw is always the hypocrisy of pretending to be normal. Only normal people are repressed. Only by not repressing yourself can you be free and authentic. Teenage nonsense! Only a teenager, or someone who thinks like one, regards having the discipline to do things one doesn't always enjoy for the benefit of those one loves as repression. Love is still narcissistic self-fulfillment for such a person, not a drive to go the extra mile for the people you care about. This is not what real people are like. This portrayal is just another cartoonish critique of American life, like Pleasantville, like Heathers, like so many movies that try to show how hypocritical everyone is. Like ignorant teenagers, however, they have yet to learn everyone is hypocritical, including themselves. Especially themselves. The irony is that we end up with a movie that is morally preachy even as it rejects the precepts of morality.
Ok, I’m just gonna throw it out there, I always thought Heat was a terrible movie.. And I disliked Raging Bull for the same reason you disliked these movies… Just nothing but despicable human beings, with nobody to root for.. Totally get that.. And American Beauty was pure schmaltz.. But I think you missed the point of the English Patient, at least what I always thought was the point?.. That war is ugly, and makes most of us very ugly, too.. And there was never an uglier, more total war than WWII.. IMO, The English Patient captured that sentiment as well as any movie ever has, and there was hardly any shots fired at all in the film.. There’s a reason it won 9 Academy Awards..
Come on David! First time you really missed the point of a story. Won't waste mine and yours time on discussion, just, please, rewatch the American Beauty. Absolutely agree on English Patient, though - pseudo-intellectual nonsence.
You mentioned that Hollywood for a while has been promoting the anti-Christian, "do what you want" attitude. I would like you to review a recent movie you have seen (recent being in the 21'st century) that promotes what you would consider the opposite of that attitude, an attitude you would be in favor of. Lord Of the Rings comes to mind as a possible suggestion and also interesting to me because instead of occurring in the modern world, it occurs in a fantasy setting where perhaps there is more an accepted longing for a better world where people do act rightly, and producers, directors, etc. working in this genre feel more free to pursue this, what would otherwise be considered, (by Hollywood anyway) obsolete worldview.
Lord of the Rings was written by a devout Catholic. At this point in time, unless Hollywood picks an old story with Christian writers or has no ego in it, they're going to subvert those values. Fascinatingly, the new My Little Pony Series is 100% undercover Christian values, including one that rebukes socialism. (I have small daughter, that's how we came to watch the series.) It's like all the good writers and storytellers (good stories follow arcs along Christian morality because Christianity is true, unfortunately for Hollywood) ended up in the children's series.
Yeah I couldn't get through house of cards either, even though I really tried And American beauty was boring as hell to. I don't know if it was that the characters were degenerates though because I really enjoyed breaking bad and the godfather, and the characters in those are degenerates as well. I think it's because the characters in the movies I like actually do interesting things and their motivations are more relatable and human. The characters in American beauty and house of cards are motivated by shallow thing, but are presented in this super serious tone, so the stories come off as pretentious. I think those stories would work better as comedies, since the characters are a bit laughable.
whats wrong with characters being motivated by shallow things? What does coming off in a superserious tone have to do with it being pretentious? i dont know how you can relate with walter white or michael im assuming you have never killed anyone.
@@lampad4549 There are relatable things about Walter white/Michael that don't have to do with him killing someone, because they are well written and realistic in terms of human behavior, and because the story touches in the zeitgeist of humanity. If you liked those other stories that is fine though not everything has to be for everyone. Also if you think I'm wrong that is fine too. I don't if you know this, but the whole point of story telling and why stories are interesting to people is because they are designed to put us in the shoes of people who we will never be our selves, thus giving us the opportunity to live through those characters vicariously. This gives us the chance to ask ourselves what we might do if we were put in the situations similar to those characters, if the characters are relatable (have some common human traits/motivations) and are written well this makes it easier to suspend our disbelief and immerse ourselves in those stories, and feel things about the stories as if they were real. This all has to do with empathy not being a killer.
I don't mind nihilist movies but The English Patient is really boring and overrated. And way too long. I just fast forwarded many parts. The only good thing about it is the cinematrography.
I remember Liking American Beauty when I first watched it but I dont think I might be able to see it again because it was a kinda dull movie. On the techical aspect it was great with beautifull shots and angles and it was edgy at the time when we lived in the sacarine american dream fantasy of the 90s, but it defenitively has not aged well especially with Kevin Spacey as the lead. I think this begs the question: must a history have a morally good character? isnt it patronizing to impose a moral code in the audience? In the case of America Beauty I must agree however that the film tries to make you root for the protagonist who is a really unlikable misguided person and ultimately that really dampers the mood.
American Beauty is what I called a “modern American classic”. There are so many great movies that came out in 1999. The Matrix, Magnolia, Eyes Wide Shut, The Green Mile, Fight Club. Possibly the greatest year in movie history.
It won 9 oscars....NINE! WHY?! Not only did i dislike the characters, but i also felt like the 'romance' was soooo forced. Theres nothing resembling chemistry between the characters. She had a personality of sandpaper, and he wasnt even trying to be nice to her. And then all of a sudden she shows up in his room for no reason, she slaps him. He falls at her feet. Literally rips her dress of her (rude) and then they fuck....what? I felt so often like things happened out of nowhere or to facilitate some 'artsy' line of dialogue that the scriptwriter thought was poetic but feels superdisjointed... Awww im mad at this movie... Whyyyyy?!
your mad at this movie probably because youre a snowflake. Also, you literally didnt watch the movies cause they had an hour of buildup before getting together and he was being nice to her, and what does lack of chemistry even mean to you? what line of dialogue?
We as human beings have the capacity to be inspired and yearn to better ourselves, and yet our art is now full of anti-heroes, and other despicable characters that don’t interest me.
not true at all. and if anti heroes dont interest because you want to be inspired shows that you want stories to be a form of sel help rather art doesnt it?
Without even watching the video yet, I'll say why I don't like American Beauty. It's a very cynical, nihilistic movie that tries to get me believe a plastic bag blowing in the wind is beautiful. I hate cynical, ugly art.
A hell of a lot of people get married because of lust, while being under the delusion that they are in love. Hence the crazy divorce rate.
I don't think that's really true anymore. Sure, in the past a bout of lust could lead to a shotgun wedding, but these days people in lust don't feel any pressure to get married. Also, I'd argue that the rise in divorce rates have more to do with societal attitudes toward marriage, single motherhood, etc than anything else.
What is love anyways? As much as we like to view ourself has evolved creatures we still fall prey to the most basic of quimical reactions in our brain, then we racionalize this feeling as "love"for a lack of a better term of temporal stupidity the fact that men is a custom animal and fear of loneliness does the rest. That is why you see the most proficient mind tied with the most vulgar of human beings or why some people stay in clearly abusive relationships out of "love".
The divorce rate is about people refusing to understand that once the kids come along, their marriage is about the kids, not them. "No-fault" divorce is this side of insane from the point of view of society wishing to make sure kids have a good future.
Divorce comes about because one or both parties involved have forgotten (or simply never learned) that any relationship requires work. It's easy to hop in the sac for a good time... for about an hour. Anyone can do that...
It's a whole different ball-game when you have the choice to go home after work or spend the wee-hours sucking yourself into the bottom of every bottle you can get your mitts on with the guys... or gals... or anyone... It's especially difficult to go back HOME when you're already looking forward to "that" conversation about something else you've fucked up, because (apparently) being the only one of the two to take any responsibility and do anything MEANS everything is automagically YOUR own fault... SO you must've screwed it up.
And it works the same imagery into your head whether your male or female in the relationship... AND regardless of whichever the mate is on the other side of that door to HOME...
There are no great leaders, no perfect fixes and no good philosophies to solve all the problems. Sooner or later, being human, we ALL have a proclivity for fucking things up. AND that comes with "that" conversation that you don't want to have with someone... anyone... significant or otherwise. BUT if you're invested in the relationship, BOTH of you, and it's worth keeping... then you best just open the damn door and prepare to accept your share of responsibility, support your mate of choice while sharing that responsibility with them... AND pursue putting further work and investment (sweat-equity is a good term) to keep up the relationship.
TOO many people jump from sac to marriage "to do the right thing"... or some equally BS excuse. Stop it. Understand that sex is dangerous by nature. It carries a great deal more gravity than just a simple act of biology that's kind of fun and cool. Start taking responsibility for yourself, and the choices you make, and you'll find your life smoothing out considerably... It takes TWO to tango, and every animation I've attempted where there's only one looks fucking stupid... It takes TWO to fuck up a marriage, or any other relationship. ;o)
I think having kids should be the main reason why people enter into a legally binding contract (aka marriage) in the first place.
"I hate it!" - Elaine Benes
First day in a film course, the professor recommended to not pay much attention to the Oscars. He said American Beauty is pure propaganda, and that is not what art is about. Art is about the revelation of an absolute truth. As Sir Joshua Reynolds said, truth is the natural taste or appetite of the human mind. Generally, artists today don't believe in truth. They believe in self expression. The works that stand the test of time are the ones that are constructed around a truth.
There is no such thing as an absolute truth, dummy.
Your statement is false according to it's own standards.
SliceOfScott As an aspiring artist, my goal is to create stories with meaning and that reflect reality. Not self-righteous celebrations of basically nothing important with no greater meaning and no real world context. IE the difference between Star Wars: A New Hope and Star Wars: That Number Eight One. For example, the story I want to tell right out the gate (once I figure out my small business model) literally holds the working title "Parable", and while that likely won't be the final name it's interesting to note.
SPOILERS
The closet homosexual marine killed the guy in American Beauty, not the wife. He thought that Spacey's character was having a homosexual relationship with his son, then came on to Spacey, assuming he was gay, then got rejected and in order to hide the secret that he was gay from getting out, killed Spacey's character.
He projected this complete hetero alpha male persona to the rest of the world, even though he was in the closet the whole time. Like Spacey's character, he was living as someone he really didn't want to be. Most of the characters in that film were projecting a persona that was false, like the cheerleader that Spacey's character falls for. She pretends to be some overly sexualized bad girl, when in reality she's still a virgin and completely embarrassed about her half-hearted attempts to seduce her friend's father.
The son of the marine is depicted as being the weird outsider, yet he's the most comfortable in his own skin and during quite a few of his scenes points out the hypocrisy of others.
I think the movie was basically saying that the image of the average white, American suburban life is a sham.
True. It's also about the shallow materialistic consumerism people in western nations are pushed to follow: you've got to have that huge house and two huge cars to impress random strangers that you "made it", and have some social status, that you've spent years trying to climb!
Lester is happiest when he's working for minimum wage at the fast food store without the pressure. Carolyn is miserable despite being a successful real estate agent. The weird kid next door is happy with simple things in life, and is ironically the most mentally stable person in the film, who then inspires Lester.
Jolly Misanthrope "suburban American life is a aham", when you're a shallow hollow person, many aren't. It's a very Hollywood view of what's wrong with America of that time.
Yeah, "suburban America life is a sham and boring" is now sort of my trigger for wondering how spoiled is the person that's saying it. Life doesn't hand you boring or even survival most of the time. Boring is a luxury.
@Jolly Misanthrope What do you believe the movie's aim to communicate? Is it an issue of image contrast with reality? or Is it the strive for beauty or search for beauty? or Is beauty a meaningless facade and a reality lacking the causal effort to beauty?
I think my last question was more of the idea the filmmakers were aiming to achieve. This idea of false beauty and real beauty to be a form of beauty in itself; such a thought they view of themselves and white suburban communities. The journey of Lester and the rest of the cast working tirelessly to live a lie and / or maintain a facade of who they are and the life they live. Then the characters coming to terms with undeniable reality; throwing them to conflict with the situation and themselves.
I think the filmmakers were doing a deconstruction the movie 'Its A Wonderful Life,' having flip the structural themes 'reflection, work, and growth' to 'false reflection, to give up, and acceptance.' Lester (like the rest of cast) worked very hard for the ideal success, but only achieve dysfunction for their efforts. The film's the resolution is for the characters to do nothing but accept their reality as a means to achieve "growth." I disagree with such themes; and find it frighteningly disgusting.
A M your argument is a strawman. Literally nobody said the word "boring" except you just now.
The English Patient was lauded by the critics but I thought was one of the most boring movies Ive ever seen.
American Beauty I felt spoke to a certain truth that many men feel today. .i.e midlife crisis, sexual frustration, the daily 9-5 grind.
I agree about American Beauty diagnosing a problem. I'm just not sure if I agree with what it says is its cure.
What was the cure? The most I can gather from the film; its main solution was a theme of "acceptance." At that time Hollywood view western culture to be too rigid and conservative; even then (as well of the present) this theme of "acceptance" is constant in the media and academia. For 'American Beauty' Kevin's character Lester achieving "acceptance" was portrayed as beautiful and good; where I find this notion disgusting.
I dislike the movie and prefer that Lester took a more proactive effort to correct himself. I wanted to see Lester put a plan together, a vivacity reinvigorated, and a solid path into a meaningful future.
I get the feeling that the story was a deconstruction of the movie 'Its A Wonderful Life, ' where for 'American Beauty' worked backwards in its structural themes. Lester had to work hard to put himself and his family into dysfunction; as a resolution he did nothing but accept the reality of situation and stop trying.
Maybe The English Patient isn’t for everyone, but imo it a great film.. Masterpiece..
It’s not a love story, or about betrayal.. It’s an indictment against how the ugliness of war makes us all very ugly too.. Set against the backdrop of the ugliest moment in human history..
And when I say backdrop, I mean it!.. Hardly a shot fired throughout the film, which is also a masterstroke..
"When I have nobody to root for, I get bored with the movie" I totally agree. I felt the same way about the movie Annhiliation with Natalie Portman, I couldn't root for any of the characters and really couldn't wait for the movie to be over.
You might want to try American Beauty again. It's weird to say none of the characters had any growth. All four main characters undergo vast changes. I can't really think of any movie that does it better, because each of the arcs center on the same internal struggles but resolve in different directions. It's also the opposite of nihilistic. The characters all learn to find meaning in their lives despite being in what appears to be cruel and chaotic situations.
Undergoing vast changes is not the same as growth. If the premise is suburbanites are boring and constrained and only acting immorally will make them happy, it's already a bad movie.
Good thing the movie is the opposite of that. The characters start thinking that acting immorally is the only thing that will make them happy. Lester rejects this by the end of the movie and learns that happiness is in his family right in front of him. That sounds like growth to me.
The studio imposed that ending, by the way. Also his reward for not giving into his improper fantasies is death. What a profound ending!
Reward - something given or received in return or recompense for service, merit, hardship, etc. He happens to be killed at the end for other reasons. It isn't a reward for not giving into his fantasies. His reward was happiness.
But whatever. You've made up your mind about the movie. It is definitely more in line with what you claim you want than you're giving it credit for.
One of the tags of American Beauty is "look closer", a small sign on Lester's (Spacey) work station. I would cordially invite you to do so.
At the beginning of the movie Lester is a bored, lost middle-aged man. The only really happy time in his life was as a teenager, flipping burgers and getting high. He is reminded of this and stirred into action when he falls for a teenage girl - something he would have done as a teenager. He says something like "it's never too late to get it back". He pursues her, his personal attractiveness, kicks back against the authorities at work like a rebellious teenager. He gets a job flipping burgers and buys a car he used to dream of as a youngster - a flashy red Pontiac Firebird. He has escaped from his miserable middle-aged existence, filled with dreary responsibilities, into the carefree lifestyle of a teenager. Did you miss all of this?
At the close of the movie he realises his mistake through his love for his daughter and, when the object of his desire offers herself to him, he sidesteps her advances and starts to treat her, appropriately, as a parent would a child. He clearly sees that his previous dissatisfaction could have been cured by appreciating love and joy in the little things around him - "look closer". Arc much?
I think Jung said something like "modern people have trouble believing in God because they don't look low enough."
The film is filled with people who are desperately reaching for authenticity in the wrong places. His wife in success and surface appearance, his daughter in looking more attractive, her sexy friend in being desired and famous. All lost except the "crazy and creepy" boy next door (Jeez, man!) who is the only truly authentic, indeed spiritually enlightened, character. His character, combined with Lester's awakening at the end, point to the "meaning" in the film - see Beauty/God in the little things (plastic bag scene) and stop flailing about like empty, selfish arse-holes.
But, then again, I might be wrong. (But I do agree it was technically brilliant.)
"You poopyhead, you!" (comment from 31/1/2018)
Completely agree. That is the interpretation I gave to the film at the moment. Really liked the ending scene.
The issue David might have with this movie may be similar to my own. The issue is its thematic structure and overall message to achieve (false) growth and call it beauty. 'American Beauty' is a deconstruction of the movie 'Its A Wonderful Life;' where the filmmakers flipped the structural themes. Lester along with the rest of cast (to variable degrees) are hard workers; who aim for the ideal success and / or lies (facades). They work themselves into dysfunction; and as a resolve, they give up to accept their reality.
That is main theme of the story is acceptance void of effort. All of Lester's efforts involve a falsehood of some type, whether his efforts is to be for success or escape. By the film's end Lester achieves his tranquil happiness by no effort given just acceptance and some reflection on happier times. In addition to that kid taking the picture of his bloody corpse and only focusing on his smile is very telling.
The mistake most people miss and the filmmakers themselves don't understand. A person can accept the reality of their problems forever; and it won't ever change a thing. You can work yourself into disarray and suffering even death. You can work yourself out of it too. And the chance you find yourself unable to be free of such troubles, never give up! Die trying if you must.
Huh? The boy next door is a stalker.
The English Patient is the quintessential romance and war film
I'm fine with a movie where the main character is terrible as long as the movie itself recognizes how terrible he is and is doing something with it. Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, A Clockwork Orange, etc. all are aware that their protagonists are vile people but are trying to use them to show us something or make us see the darker side of ourselves or show some kind of theme. American Beauty has this problem where it tries to tell us, "Yeah, man, the suburban life is like, so boring!" but it's solution is far more deplorable than the "problem" it's trying to solve. It tries to be a movie about some kind of "beauty" but it's only if you take that word and bastardize it into meaning something horrible.
Great points. I like good looks at villains, but I don't like it when a movie presents actions as *good.* Antiheroes are interesting precisely because there are actions they do which are explicitly bad or they explicitly lack particular virtues.
Travis Bickle isn't vile. He's like an idiot that has no place in the world and struggles to have positive adult interactions. The movie presents a decaying, vile underbelly of a city an he just happens to be the kind of guy it creates or neglects.
Not saying I'm the final view on it, hell I haven't seen the film in a while. I just think Travis is characterized by being naive and unable to steer his life.
The English Patient was boring. 2 hours of Ralph Fiennes is having an affair, and then at the end he is burnt. Plus the pacing of the film is really slow. It just makes it a chore to watch.
American Beauty isn’t really great either. It’s fairly creepy. A film where Kevin Spacey’s character is having a midlife crisis and fantasizes about sleeping with one of his daughters friends. That’s where the creepy part comes in. Though it’s the repressed homosexual Marine that kills Spacey’s character because of him thinking Spacey’s character was gay when he wasn’t.
I could get in more details as to why the films aren’t that great or whatnot, but I just gave a reason or two why I’m not as impressed by the films as others are, but also I think you did a great job saying why they aren’t that good David.
Best ending to a film: Very Bad Things. A good example of bad characters getting their comeuppance, implied in the very title of the film.
You said it. I've been searching for the right words about EP for years and you said them!
Thank you for pointing out the scary sexualization of a child in American beauty. It honestly means a lot when people point it out instead of praising it as being deep and artistic when it’s actually just super disturbing and gross
To be fair though, Lester doesn't have sex with her when he had the chance. When she confesses to be a virgin, he stops, as he feels guilty about taking advantage of a vulnerable young girl.
In American Beauty 2, he goes for it anyway. There's no reason to assume that today's Hollywood improves on the moral front.
A M Oh, Hollywood is fucked for sure. Full of degenerate extreme left wing jewish cultural marxists producing increasingly bizaare and pretentious movies each decade. What other industry would known child sexual perverts and criminals like Roman Polanski and Woody Allen be welcomed with open arms after everyone knows what degenerates they are?!
Mike Spearwood I'm pretty sure the police would still press charges because it's disgusting.
@@mikespearwood3914 Anti-Semitic much?
I find it a bit weird that characters in movies need to be sympathetic in order for you to enjoy the movie. This is a rather "new" idea since in the olden times of Shakespeare that wasn't really a consideration. Macbeth and Richard 3. don't really have any likable characters and yet, they are great plays/stories.
I think it limits storytelling if we HAVE to root for a "good" character. We really should just focus on the narration and if it's believable and the characters "make sense" and is internally consistent.
Macbeth is about morals. The titular character doesn't spend the entire play indulging in petty, villainous temptations.
Exactly. In Macbeth, even if the characters lack morality, that doesn't mean the story and its presentation lack morality. The book treats Macbeth like someone who is doing something that isn't exactly morally right. You could say the same for movies like Raging Bull and A Clockwork Orange. The problem with American Beauty and English Patient is that it shows immorality and then proceeds to have the story cheerlead said immorality.
@@DVSPress thats exactly what the story is about. he commmitted all these vile acts yet we are supposed to feel bad about because of how pointless it all is.
Ive only ever walked out of two movies in my life. the English Patient was one.
and?
Mike Spearwood Oh, sorry. The other one was The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies. A bit random I know, but the whole trilogy was a travesty and I finally got fed up half way through the last one. Walked straight out, dumped my popcorn and went for a pint of lagar down the pub.
PoorlyPaidPoet I've literally never seen any of those hobbit movies. As soon as I heard they were going to make two movies, then a trilogy, from what was apparently a relatively short children's story, I saw the writing on the wall. Hence, I've not heard one good word said by anyone about them!
Kevin Spaceys character changes at the end and no longer has sexual desire to the teenage girl.
The wife's betrayal and the vanity of the daughter are showed in a bad light, not as something desirable and good.
You really should watch the movie again, I think you would enjoy it more a second time...
The characters are not only unlikable, they're unrelatable. I really dislike Tony Soprano but I can relate to him.
If the marine's son that was supposed to be an outsider, non-conformist, had actually been written well and played by a different actor, it could have added something to the film.
Can you do a review of Shape of Water, and give your thoughts on why it won?? Probably checked the most "current year" boxes.
Expect more Shape of Water type of movies, just continually more bizarre, until Hollywood collapses.
Instead of seeing "The English Patient" again. Why not read the book and see if it has any redeeming revelations that make you understand the characters more.
See Paul Elam for an astute review of American beauty, then watch it again.
I agree with you, especially about American Beauty.
The English Patient kinda tricked me. The extramarital affair was distasteful but the movie was so long and slow, and they kept saying it was love, so I forgot it was cheating and came away with a romantic feeling.
I'm curious what you thought of Closer, with Natalia Portman and Jude Law. I liked it and thought it captured the modern amorality in a non-flattering way.
webherring
I was thinking about “Closer” too when he’s talking about these two movies. I think that movie is very underrated.
I agree with you that it is difficult to get through movies where one doesn't have any positive feelings about any of the characters. In general I think part of the problem comes from efforts to give characters flaws that completely miss or overshoot the mark. It's like the horror movie where you start rooting for the baddie because all the characters are so annoying and it becomes comedy instead of horror.
What are your thoughts on a movie like Pulp Fiction where all the characters would be considered ""bad"? Or the TV shoiw Firefly where some of their jobs are morally "bad"?
Pulp fiction is about Grace, changing one's path, and the consequences of refusing the call to do so. Characters redeem and are redeemed, and the one who refuses the call dies.
Ty :) @Was just curious.
I couldn't watch Pulp fiction more than 20 minutes... Just bored out of my mind.
Interesting points. Thoughts on Breaking Bad and Scarface, David?
I find will to power far more interesting than characters who follow their immediate lusts at the expense of all things permanent and meaningful.
@@DVSPress why?
This is exactly why Ronald Moore's Battlestar Galactica had me apathetic about the characters' fates by the end of the series. They all had their extended moments of just being completely horrible people. Cloverfield is an example of a movie that I could not get into because the characters were so unlikable. I really just wanted them to all die so the movie would be over. Come to think of it, I think everything I've seen by JJ Abrams has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Call me old fashioned, but I like good "good guys" and bad "bad guys."
You should watch the Japanese movie "Visitor Q".
Yeah I don't think he'd care for that one, lol.
Can I make requests? It'd be nice to get your opinion on Annihilation.
What is your opinion of Mad Men? In my experience, when I started watching the series I hated every single character. I despised how immoral, nihilistic and superficial they all were but, as the series progress (specially during season 4) I really started to like all the characters. I even started to like Don. I don't know what happened there. Watching Mad Men has been a really uncanny experience for me.
You hate Kenny Cosgrove? Really? 😁
But I agree. By the end the show was aimless and seemed more like a commercial for antidepressants
how was any of the characters superficial?
Also, because X movie equals Y meaning doesn't mean it's objectively good. That way of thinking makes no sense. Stating that if you didn't like the movie you must not of understood the deeper meaning. I may not know the meaning behind the painting but I can still be critical of it's artistic design.
How about Fight Club? Same criticisms?
Fight Club always seemed to have a conceptual contradiction. It was anti-conformity, yet at the same time suggesting an alternate form of behavior to conform to.
Jolly Misanthrope I thought it was about anti-materialism?
Not really, you're not meant to align with the main character's radical approach. I mean, the movie isn't even subtle about this. Same thing with Scarface, I don't understand why so many people worship the protagonists of those films when they're portrayed as being in the wrong in such an obvious fashion.
Ghost7856 That's why I like the film, I just find the characters and themes interesting, it dosent mean I agree with it.
@Jolly Misanthrope - I disagree with your sentiment. It's criticizing Tyler Durden's attitude just as much as it is criticizing his former life. It finds both of them to be contemptible in their own ways.
I am happy that you shared your insight on American Beauty. Your one of the few reviewers I agree fully with on it. The acting was fine and the visuals were good too, but it was a despicable, ugly story with unlikeable characters. 1999 was a decent year for movies we had The Sixth Sense, and The Green Mile which were far more worthy winners with better stories, acting and just all the way around better movies. Both were nominated for Best Picture and one of them should have won. Two great movies passed over for a story about a guy who’s a pedophile. How the movie became a hit let alone won Oscars amazes me. Who would want to see that story let alone be entertained by it? The Oscars have said if they could re-vote a Best Picture winner they would have chosen All the Presidents Men over Rocky in 1976. 76 was a great year for movies and four out of the five nominees I felt were worthy of Best Picture win including Rocky which got top prize. But if they can take a great movie like Rocky and say another nominee that year was more deserving of Best Picture they should have done the same in 99. The aforementioned two 99 movies were way better. The Insider and Cider House Rules were also nominated. I haven’t seen either but they have got to be better than American Beauty. One of Oscars biggest mistakes in my opinion just like awarding Shakespeare in Love Best Picture over Saving Private Ryan the previous year.
I watched American Beauty when I was 13, Even though the film didn't age that well, back then it really spoke to me seeing my life being in a luxury prison called the suburbs because that's what almost every 90s kids grew up experiencing at the time. Now because of the economic crisis, that prison called the suburbs is much more desirable to what people are experiencing now as they are just having a hard enough time just paying the bills and surviving.
I don't think the film portrays any of the "bad" behaviors in a good light. What it is is portraying the extreme opposite reaction of stifling social norms where we can't be who we really are nor can we be loved or accepted.
Society is always making us put up a front. Even little things where people ask each other how are you and they couldn't care how they are doing is all a charade and I think thats where the movie tagline Look closer comes from.
Although Kevin Spacey is despicable in real life, I really enjoyed the movie's message about self-acceptance because he realizes what matters to him is his desire to be with his family before the colonel kills him.
That's my 2 cents.
Hello! I will extend my thoughts about "The English Patient" quite long, I'm afraid. Therefore, I'll start at once.
I think the main couple truly love one to each other. We can see lust, yes... but also, remorse, the sensation of not being enough for the other, also the misunderstanding in consider, Laszlo, shallowness and just pretending, as a lack of commitement from (Claire, Kate? Not sure); and the female character in do not understand the real reasons why Laszlo is the way he is and how far he goes to bring his emotions up in terms of being "expressive" enough. There are two quite different personalities for some reasons bounded or fond of it. Is she truly speaking a "cheater"? She and her husband are, likely, close to be best friends rather than a loving, caring, (or not) romantic/sexual couple!
What I guess it happens, according to the dialogues and the few actions among the other characters (Dafoe, Binoche, etc) is the fact that They can achieve (at different levels, must be said) some sort of redemption o lesson, even through Laszlo! Dafoe could have easily killed him and finish his revenge, but What for? He would have not punish anyone because the main character had already been punished and not redeemed. In Dafoe's eyes, at the very end, Laszlo's misbehavours deserves pity, not cruelty.
By some kind of euthanasya, Binoche's character does not redeem or put Laszlo's suffers away... She simply makes peace with the cruel fact of death. As well as she suffered the lost of her best friend in a very absurd and possibly avoidable way, she can see how "neutral" or arbitrious death is... She's a quite optimistic character, but she cannot makes life more liveable than what already is, just as she cannot kill what's already dead.
Hope to see more of your TH-cam videos soon... Fare well!
Leonel Ramiro Barreiro Moreno
U dissected that very well. I completely agree. Imo, I always loved it and I only first saw it nearly 2 years ago. I watched Fargo at the same time but didn’t really like it that much. It was ok, but underwhelming. The English Patient was fulfilling in every single way, though, and I adore it. In my top 5 favourite films for sure
Agree completely. I'm not familiar with channel, but it seems like this review is basically moral pandering to some (suggested ) target audience. Maybe it's a Christian channel on the low. Idk.
Either way, very shallow analysis. We're humans and when we experience those kind of passions (which it doesn't seem like he's ever had) the lines between love and lust are blurred. However, they are most definitely "in" love. And The whole movie is metaphor for the punishment of acting out on these passions. For both of them. The film/book is fully aware of the moral consequences. That's why its so romantic...
This is the same reason i can't watch Mr. Robot and House of Cards the characters and themes I find objective and deplorable
Your Connected Are those shows glorifying that? I enjoy them, but I never cheered for the protagonists and their actions, I just find it to be an interesting character study.
Mr. Robot I can understand. But in House of Cards, the show never agrees with the main characters. You're supposed to find them deplorable and wicked. The whole point of the show is government isn't about voting and your politician doing what you asked. It's exposing how government is really far more about back room deals and agreements for the sake of advancing one's career.
ZerogunRivale cool
TheAutistWhisperer I see
I felt the same way about Vic Mackey in "The Shield."
I haven't seen those movies but this reminds me of The Devil Rejects. Same thing. Your supposed to care about the psychopaths in the movie and I really didn't.
I have no idea why you think the actions of the character in American Beauty are presented as "good." They seem fun at first and it speaks to a rebellious streak in a lot of people: He gives his boss the finger, he starts living life in the moment, does drugs, has fun, etc. We sympathize for a while because it's an escapist daydream for many who are bored with their lives, but as the movie progresses, we start to see the effects of his lifestyle decisions, which are negative. In the end he realizes his life was pretty much fine.
Nope, you don't remember much about American Beauty. How about watching it and trying again? Hint: movie about ephebophilia is not the same as movie promoting ephebophilia. Same as movie about thieves doesn't promote stealing, movie about serial killer doesn't promote murder and movie about Hitler doesn't promote nazism. These are just stories about these people. You can obviously watch a movie anyway you want, but it's pretty wierd in my humble opinion to watch it like it was a baseball game - just for cheering for your team.
Also American Beauty is full of flawed, often broken characters but I wouldn't say they're evil people.
Most of the characters in that film are having an identity crisis of some kind or another. So yeah I wouldn't say they are evil.
Unfortunately most people can't hide behind "identity crisis" much beyond say 19. By that measure Hitler, Stalin, and Mao had one heck of an identity crisis. In washing away the idea of culpability, we wash away the concept of evil.
They are "Bad" people. Their "Bad" actions are seen as good throughout the film. In true nihilistic fashion, none of it meant anything at the end anyway.
Just because characters are "bad" doesn't make them evil in the same sense of Snidely Whiplash, twisting the mustache for emphasis of just how dastardly they really can be...
These are Irredeemable characters. It's one thing to present characters with flaws, even to the point of broken... For a total train-wreck, look no further than House MD, or Adrian Monk... BUT these characters KNOWINGLY STRUGGLE with their flaws...
In the English Patient and American Beauty, you (audience) get NONE of that. There's no deeper struggle, no attempt to redeem one's self OR self image. It's just a heaping helping of degeneration and a leisurely topping of "F*** it!", so... while you do have a point that a story about Nazis doesn't necessarily promote them, it doesn't necessarily condemn them either... Some of us (audience) far more appreciate the open struggles of someone who KNOWS he's flawed and broken over someone who just quits trying and welcomes becoming a degenerate piece of sh*t. ;o)
I don't see those three as having an identity crisis. They all were convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that they were right in what they did. Saying they had an identity crisis, at least in how I'm defining it for the sake of this discussion, would mean they really didn't want to be dictators in the first place, and that some kind of social pressure pushed them into that role. I doubt that was ever the case.
I'd be interested in hearing your current extended thoughts on American Beauty. Particularly because it's commonly used as an example of excellent screenwriting online and in academia. Also, the varied characters arches/morals offer opportunity interesting analysis on not only how they were executed, but what they communicate.
I loved American Beauty. I enjoyed it because to my eyes it shed some light on something that I think is true and many people ignore it: things aren't what they seem. The movie also shows (though often in a dramatized fashion) things that almost all of us experience but rarely or never talk about and we will even act derisively towards someone if we know about this dirty little thing about them. Like one of the first shots in the film is of a man masturbating in the shower, a bit of a shock but it's something that people do. If you are reading this comment are you smirking right now? Not completely unlikely that you rubbed one out within the 12 months. It showed a nice looking home in a nice neighborhood which on the outside looks so warm and wholesome. On the inside not so much. Lots of homes are like that. Hopefully most people grew up in a happy home. I didn't but you'd never know that from looking at my home from the street. It's not as nice as the home in the movie but it's wasn't a dump either. To me I appreciated that honesty of the movie. The proper and polite wife, remember how pleasant she was when you first saw her in the garden at the beginning of the movie? The more you see her you realize she's shallow, selfish and even callous. Know anyone like that in real life? They know how to be cordial but it's a thin veneer to a rotten person. And yes Sapcey's character was a despicable father but some fathers are. In the end of the movie it showed that these were once young happy people in love and life over time has changed them to what they have become. It happens. That's real. The phony front that people show and the dysfunctional that lies behind it is real. It's even common. I didn't get the impression that the movie was promoting or endorsing that but highlighting it. I can't read the minds of the film makers but that was my impression. There's a place for stories like that and they can be very well done like American Beauty was. To be clear that is not my "preferred" style of story telling. For example I loath what has happened to Star Wars. That is a story that should have stayed more about heroes and villains ... good and evil ... heroes that you can route for and be characters that can be admired. There's a place for both kinds of stories and I can appreciate them both.
A more recent movie that I watched and didn't really enjoy was Knock Knock. I guess I didn't like the main character who was actually not that bad of a guy getting screwed throughout the whole movie. If you have seen it, I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on it.
Knock Knock was very meh, but worth it just for the great "free pizza" rant scene
As much as I love American Beauty, knowing what we know know now about Kevin Spacey, it adds an extra level of creepiness to the overall movie. As for Ricky’s dad, I didn’t pick up on him being a repressed homosexual. Not saying your wrong but I didn’t get those vibes. However it’s been a long time since I last saw it.
It's been a very long time since I saw it as well. I could very well be misremembering.
Do Micheal bay movies. I would like to know why people hate his movies and not care for the characters. It has gotten so bad even China is starting to catch on.
Michael Bay movies have "characters"?
Yeah men. I mean, like dude there are, err heroes, like, Cade Yeager.
He's an inventor man.. with like, a daughter......... WHO IS HOT. He has Ideals, and a dream and he wants to put his (Hot) Daughter through college.
You have to understand.......Man!
Lindsay Ellis has a somewhat ongoing series about Michael Bay's films (Transformers in particular) called "The Whole Plate" where she dissects the movie and the characters very thoroughly. It's well worth a watch.
Hi David, Love your videos and the way you articulate arguments even when they disagree with other opinions. I'd love to hear your thoughts on The Fountain (2006) as I don't feel enough people discus this movie and I'd be really interested to hear what you think of the movie. Keep up the great work!
I enjoyed AB when I first saw it but I was in my late teens at the time.
I saw it again recently and was far less impressed. It’s far too “on the nose” in its commentary and doesn’t know whether it wants to be a drama or a satire so ultimately ends up as a fairly shallow version of both.
I had the same issue watching “Black Mirror” recently, particularly the Charlie Brooker written episodes. He doesn’t know how to write social commentary or moral tales without hitting the audience over the head with his ideas.
nothing wrong with being on the nose. Seven, network, lord of the rings, american history x are all on the nose. when was the movie satire?
Based on some facts you get wrong about it, it's clearly been awhile since you've seen American Beauty. Characters do have arcs and people end up sort of suffering what's coming to them in the end. Look closer.
It’s also been a while since he’s seen The English Patient. His summaries of both movies were incredibly shallow, which is not really fair to portray them as such
The cinematography in the English Patient was awesome But that movie gets boring and annoying.
I like American Beauty. It is the kinde of crazy and fucked up I enjoy. Plus I like evil/bad characters.
I was curious to hear your thoughts, as a writer, on the works of Jim Butcher. I recently picked up his book "The Aeronaut's Windlass", and despite having heard a lot of good things about him I cannot help but be unimpressed.
The dialogue is hammy, the various subplots make the overarching story feel schizophrenic, the characters are unlikable in an unredemptive manner. Overall, it feels like a cheesy 'young adult' novel pretending to be legitimate fantasy-fiction.
If you disliked the American House of Cards (which I have never seen), I wonder whether you have checked out the English original serials (House of Cards, To Play The King and The Final Cut) or the original novel House Of Cards by Michael Dobbs (similar to the serials but with another ending)...
Shhhhhh.... ssshhhhhhh.... don't tell your friends. Maybe few people will see this video. These are wonderful movies. I don't care if you are a Gibb. The English patient is a movie about Love that you just cannot control. Like if You've always done things wrong in this life And suddenly you realize It and see the light. Look you even have the guitars!
The plastic bag floating around in the breeze was pure cringe.
Jolly Misanthrope - “It was one of those days when it's a minute away from snowing and there's this electricity in the air, you can almost hear it. And this bag was, like, dancing with me. Like a little kid begging me to play with it. For fifteen minutes. And that's the day I knew there was this entire life behind things, and... this incredibly benevolent force, that wanted me to know there was no reason to be afraid, ever. Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in.”
Pure Fondue Bukkake party.
Jolly Misanthrope
I openly guffawed in the theater, got yelled at by my now ex:)
Family Guy did a good spoof of that scene where at the end God is irate because the character is obsessing over something so idiotic when there are actually far more complex things that exist that a human could ponder.
Yeah it was pretentious as hell.
"Not Another Teen Movie" did a good send up of that character.
By this guidelines I suppose you didnt like Three Billboards?
I haven't watched it.
You wont like Three Billboards lol, bit overrated imho, if you ever do watch it I'd like to hear your opinion, even if it's just a passing comment on a video about something else.
I hated American Beauty because I was raped as a young girl. The main character disgusted me.. His lust for the teenager was a trigger for me. When I saw it I was pregnant with my first child and I felt very unattractive, so I’m sure my emotions had something to do with it. Anyway, the movie made me sick.
Never seen either. Not interested at all in watching them.
Not missing much. American Beauty is pretty overt in its criticisms of American society, nothing really clever to be found there. Besides you can find photos and gifs of Thora Birch showing her amazing rack online, without having to watch the film. :)
They're not the greatest of all time but still enjoyable.
Don't waste your life on bad movies for us... :( I have the same problem with entertainment. If I can't even find one character that I like, I'm done.
I am surprised to say that I enjoyed your video, liked and subscribed, and yet I disagree with you on most of your points, but you articulated them well. I got your point, succinctly. These are two of the movies that I love very much. I love them so much that I would put them on my top 10 of all time (my number 1 being "Harold and Maude.") My husband's favorite movie is, "A Clockwork Orange." Talk about moral ambiguity! I would love to discuss this further with you. You sound fascinating! Keep in touch, please!
Can you please review Three billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri? I really didn't like that movie while so many seem to love it. One of the reason was that i really disliked the main character. Next to that i thought it was poorly directed and had a bad script. Would love see your thoughts on this one. Keep up the good work! Really appreciate our content.
I liked American beauty. The main character was intentionally portrayed as a complete loser in the beginning. The movie was basically about his enlightenment and redemption, and the other characters who basically didn't change were foils for him. At least, that's how I see it.
You can argue that Spacey's character was red-pilled at the point in the movie where he started to rebel against the false identity he had assumed.
+Jolly Misanthrope
Red pilled is just such a useful meme.
So how did he become enlightened exactly? He only seems to return to his earlier years.
He wasn't enlightened; he was expressing a Marxist fantasy that traditional life is boring and unfulfilling: he had a mid-life crisis where he wished to be young (thus showing the audience what a waste having a family is), then decided not to give into his pedophilic fantasy (at the behest of the studio; originally he was supposed to sleep with the girl), then is rewarded with death, because nothing happens for any reason ever, there is no higher law, and social institutions are both harmful and without purpose.
In the end, it was all meaningless, which is why he talks about "beauty" - his choices and those of the others around him (including his wife's cheating, which he seems not to mind) are purely aesthetic in their meaning.
+David Stewart
I have a different interpretation. Yes, his desire to be attractive to the high school girl was the inciting event, but as he worked out, he discovered that improving himself was its own reward. At some point, he wasn't doing it for her anymore. Moreover, I don't see this movie as a screed against "traditional life." By the end, he realized how much he loved his wife and daughter and regretted the fact that they were estranged.
Death wasn't his "reward," nor was it portrayed that way, although I definitely agree that the studio made a wise decision to not have him actually sleep with the girl. I don't know why you're saying the movie's message is "nothing happens for a reason and there's no higher meaning." Where are you getting that from? The most hopeful interpretation is that he basically transcended. That is, he learned the lessons he was suppose to learn in this life and was immediately ushered to the next. The camera panning away at the end implies that he's rising toward the heavens. The ex-marine is the one who went to hell--that of his own making.
Finally, I don't think the movie is trying to portray some social constructionist view of beauty. The point is not that beauty and ugliness are just a matter of interpretation. Rather, it is possible to find beauty in the midst of the profanities of life, and those rare moments should be treasured.
I have more time for AB than for TEP because AB flat-out doesn't tell you that these are good people. They're just people: exploitative, messy, rapacious, vulnerable, strangers to themselves, and so forth. And sometimes hilariously funny. But TEP screams "love me, love me!" all the way through when really it's about nothing other than horrendous narcissism. And the emotionally manipulative sacrifice of Kevin Whately's minor but important character is as unspeakable as it's predictable. The film casts a very cold, patronising eye over the lower orders, over funny little people who aren't quite like "us", whoever the in-crowd are. And they're all expendable of course. Really not Anthony Minghella's finest hour, whatever he thought of it.
David, I completely agree with your reviews of both films! You hit it right on the nail, bravo! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 In both American Beauty and The English Patient they are filled with morally reprehensible and unlikable characters. They are all scumbags who give into their desires without caring about hurting other people in the process. I've only seen them once and I may consider seeing them again to see if my opinion of them has changed. Anyway, keep up the great work! 🙂
It's no mystery why Hollywood pushes the most morally repugnant films for these awards.
Oftentimes I'll see previews and I can tell right off the bat what will be in the Oscars conversation just by means of it being revolting.
I was very young and thought the Academy Awards really meant a lot when I went to see The English Patient but thanks to that movie realized the oppsite. Never watching it again.
Mark Twain commenting on one Fennimore Cooper's books wrote that reading it he wished all the characters would go off and get drowned together. So many "deep" movies these days...
I never even heard of the English patient, guess that means that I am unworldly
But nowadays, most young people confound sexual arousal with being inlove or feeling passion for someone, and spent time saying shallow "love you"'s that don't mean nothing. And you see that in Twilight Torture saga and 50 shades of persona 3 myself please, lol, and sjw and women like those cheesy movies.
What I mean with persona 3 myself is:
avvesione.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/persona_3_the_movie_1-makoto-protagonist-hero-summon-gun-sees.jpg -is a metaphor. Please don't do this.
PS: And who doesn't have lustful dreams or thoughts about sexy teens, most of them behave like whores anyway and lose virginity much early that most of us did. I didn't say kids or early teens, that's too sick. Or doesn't mean, I think about rapping or become a pedophile, by having sex with teens. What I meant have lustful dreams with teens, of course 18 years and higher, having sex or rapping is another. is normal to have lustful desires for sexy women, when you are a straight guy still in his sexual years. lol. I saw the movies a couple of times, and I never felt the need to rape a teen or treat women as objects, sexual attraction for me is a normal thing, and important thing, not only the lovey dovey thing, if you don't have sexual attraction or think her as an interesting person to date and to know, you and most of us, wouldn't be compelled to interact with the opposite sex in the first place, and the same applies to them. We are all sexual animals in some way, demonize that is pointless, but that doesn't means I approve pedophile and rapping someone, while I've nieces and nephews, I don't see them that way, would be sick and gross.
I liked American Beauty, I'm not a drama guy myself. But for me the movie felt like a melodrama about a guy having a middle life crisis. Aswell "Lost in the Translation" as a similar theme, and I like them both. What i your thoughts about "Lost in Translation". In American Beauty, I love the Mena Suvari scene ;P.
static.kino.de/wp-content/gallery/american-beauty-1999/american-beauty-mena-suvari-4-rcm0x1920u.jpg - and in Lost in Translation, has the best opening scene ever, I call the 2 best suns to awake to, the Scarlett butt scene, lol.
media.sandiegoreader.com/img/photos/2012/10/11/1_Sofia_Coppola_John_Kacere_Lost_In_Translation_Scarlett_Johansson_Underpants_t500x266.jpg?7a7fa8cea0f06a2baeb6a0659b218cc3ddf87e94 - obviously I didn't like those movies, only for those, of course. lol
PS: I don't agree you entirely about bad characters, I don't need to relate with all the characters I see, to enjoy them or the story they tell, like I said, I'm not a drama lover myself, and I know dramas and melodramas need relatable characters.
I don't dislike Lester, back then, I wasn't a middle age, back an young adult, so I wasn't passing a middle life crisis myself, lol. But like "Lost in Translation", I felt sympathetic with him, he had a boring job, a bitchy wife, an emo emotionless kid, an overall boring life and he tried, like Bob in Lost in Translation, escape that shithole that he was in and return to those young adult stage, I can't blame the guy, lol. And the all opprossed gay thing about the military guy, is a reflection about many supposedly alpha dudes that have unhappy marriages, are mean to their wifes and kids and themselves are opprossed gays, I'm not an opprossed gay, so I don't relate to that too. I saw the movie as a critic of american family and maybe way of life, the same way Simpsons, Family Guy and American dad, does. I may be wrong, and that was the point of that movie, in my opinion in that point, I think it did a good job. But for me, what you said about those movies, applies to "50 shades of Bullcrap" and "Twilight Torture saga".
i1.ytimg.com/vi/hEXsOOVWuGA/maxresdefault.jpg
I love your take. I wish I knew if you were an atheist. What I mean is one can share your lament of the nihilism in these films and sill set one's sights on a secular rationally derived ethics.
I did not like American Beauty either, and for much the same reasons. It was a really disagreeable watch. I never did watch the English patient. The only thing that I remember was that the trailers were unappealing back then, so I cannot comment on it.
Well said that Hollywood confuses lust and love.
Seems to be somewhat empty moralising about movies that are a bit more complex than just ‘bad people doing bad things’. American Beauty is a film about unhappy people who gradually realise they’re unhappy and flail around trying to do something about it until a misunderstanding brings that all to a tragic halt.
That doesn't sound very complex to me, but it does sound pointless and boring.
David Stewart they may well be boring yes. Not a big fan of either of those movies, I’d rather watch Star Wars myself. But I don’t think they are just nihilistic drivel at all. I dislike the use of suburbia as a ‘hate landscape’ in which no good may come because that’s so obviously bogus and drips with liberal prejudice. But to dismiss the characters and the movie because no-one is ‘virtuous’ seems to me to miss the point by a country mile.
The "postmodern" feeling you are reading comes not from any sort of deliberate attempt to gloss over morality. It comes from being pretentious as only a teenager can be pretentious. I'm referring mostly to American Beauty, here.
What is wrong and evil with the world? All that is stereotypically normal and good. (Stick in gratuitous 1950s references made by people who never lived in the 1950s but only saw it in Leave it to Beaver reruns.) Nothing normal is good. Normal is "inauthentic". Everything abnormal is "authentic". Normal people are hypocrites, because they are truly abnormal on the inside. Abnormal people are authentic because they live their lives abnormally - which is the new normal.
As Lester starts living his life more abnormally, the happier he becomes. Not that we feel happy about it, as we watch his character deteriorate.
That's why it's all an adolescent screed on what it's like to grow up as the child of an upper middle class American couple. They have everything they could want, materially, but are existentially unhappy and project that unhappiness on everyone else. Only an adolescent boy would regard fantasizing lustfully about an underage teenage girl as "authentic".
So it's "postmodern" only in the sense that it appears to reject morality. It doesn't reject morality so much as it is ignorant of it. It appears to criticize "consumerism" only in the stereotypical way that any teenager does: seeing material wealth as "shallow", entirely ignorant of the huge amount of effort and dedication that is necessary on the part of everyone in society to keep everyone alive and well. Any teenager who grows up having no material needs or wants only feels spiritual needs/wants, and takes wealth for granted, deeming it shallow consumerism/materialism. "Consumerism", if we must call it that, is "shallow" unless you live in a nation where there is no food to buy: a story currently being played out in Venezuela, but sadly repeats itself over and over again in too many nations.
It is pretentious because it attempts to be a critique, but it instead reveals a vast ignorance of human nature. The abnormal people have no flaws except being abnormal, which isn't even regarded as a flaw in the film. Only normal people have flaws, and that flaw is always the hypocrisy of pretending to be normal. Only normal people are repressed. Only by not repressing yourself can you be free and authentic.
Teenage nonsense! Only a teenager, or someone who thinks like one, regards having the discipline to do things one doesn't always enjoy for the benefit of those one loves as repression. Love is still narcissistic self-fulfillment for such a person, not a drive to go the extra mile for the people you care about.
This is not what real people are like. This portrayal is just another cartoonish critique of American life, like Pleasantville, like Heathers, like so many movies that try to show how hypocritical everyone is. Like ignorant teenagers, however, they have yet to learn everyone is hypocritical, including themselves. Especially themselves.
The irony is that we end up with a movie that is morally preachy even as it rejects the precepts of morality.
Good video.
Ok, I’m just gonna throw it out there, I always thought Heat was a terrible movie.. And I disliked Raging Bull for the same reason you disliked these movies… Just nothing but despicable human beings, with nobody to root for.. Totally get that.. And American Beauty was pure schmaltz..
But I think you missed the point of the English Patient, at least what I always thought was the point?.. That war is ugly, and makes most of us very ugly, too.. And there was never an uglier, more total war than WWII..
IMO, The English Patient captured that sentiment as well as any movie ever has, and there was hardly any shots fired at all in the film..
There’s a reason it won 9 Academy Awards..
Come on David! First time you really missed the point of a story. Won't waste mine and yours time on discussion, just, please, rewatch the American Beauty. Absolutely agree on English Patient, though - pseudo-intellectual nonsence.
Sopranos is my favourite show and they are mostly bad people but I love them all, yet I hate those movies as well
I'm a guitarist and I don't like these movies too. Is it just coincidence???? :=)
Has anyone thought about "The English Patient" since it came out? That movie seems to have sunk into oblivion.
Well-deserved oblivion IMO.
there have been many people talking about it.
You mentioned that Hollywood for a while has been promoting the anti-Christian, "do what you want" attitude. I would like you to review a recent movie you have seen (recent being in the 21'st century) that promotes what you would consider the opposite of that attitude, an attitude you would be in favor of. Lord Of the Rings comes to mind as a possible suggestion and also interesting to me because instead of occurring in the modern world, it occurs in a fantasy setting where perhaps there is more an accepted longing for a better world where people do act rightly, and producers, directors, etc. working in this genre feel more free to pursue this, what would otherwise be considered, (by Hollywood anyway) obsolete worldview.
Lord of the Rings was written by a devout Catholic. At this point in time, unless Hollywood picks an old story with Christian writers or has no ego in it, they're going to subvert those values. Fascinatingly, the new My Little Pony Series is 100% undercover Christian values, including one that rebukes socialism. (I have small daughter, that's how we came to watch the series.) It's like all the good writers and storytellers (good stories follow arcs along Christian morality because Christianity is true, unfortunately for Hollywood) ended up in the children's series.
@@AM-os4ty if your metric for what would be considered moral only alligns with what the bible says then sure things are going to seem immoral.
I didn't care for these movies either ---but mainly because they were boring... ;)
Yeah I couldn't get through house of cards either, even though I really tried And American beauty was boring as hell to. I don't know if it was that the characters were degenerates though because I really enjoyed breaking bad and the godfather, and the characters in those are degenerates as well. I think it's because the characters in the movies I like actually do interesting things and their motivations are more relatable and human. The characters in American beauty and house of cards are motivated by shallow thing, but are presented in this super serious tone, so the stories come off as pretentious. I think those stories would work better as comedies, since the characters are a bit laughable.
whats wrong with characters being motivated by shallow things? What does coming off in a superserious tone have to do with it being pretentious? i dont know how you can relate with walter white or michael im assuming you have never killed anyone.
@@lampad4549 There are relatable things about Walter white/Michael that don't have to do with him killing someone, because they are well written and realistic in terms of human behavior, and because the story touches in the zeitgeist of humanity. If you liked those other stories that is fine though not everything has to be for everyone. Also if you think I'm wrong that is fine too.
I don't if you know this, but the whole point of story telling and why stories are interesting to people is because they are designed to put us in the shoes of people who we will never be our selves, thus giving us the opportunity to live through those characters vicariously. This gives us the chance to ask ourselves what we might do if we were put in the situations similar to those characters, if the characters are relatable (have some common human traits/motivations) and are written well this makes it easier to suspend our disbelief and immerse ourselves in those stories, and feel things about the stories as if they were real. This all has to do with empathy not being a killer.
*doesn't like bad/evil chatacters*
Oh boy, I'd stay away from Berserk if I were you....
I love Berserk.
Oh. We talking manga or anime here?
Both, to an extent. Unfortunately the Manga loses all direction after awhile, and I stopped trying to keep up with it.
I don’t like Amadeus, as much as I tried to watch or like this movie.
Eh I loved Amadeus. Just the music is beautiful.
I don't mind nihilist movies but The English Patient is really boring and overrated. And way too long. I just fast forwarded many parts. The only good thing about it is the cinematrography.
I disliked the English Patient because Ralph Fiennes' Hungarian lines made my ears bleed 🤕🇭🇺
I was fine with those lines coz, believe me, John Travolta speaking in Serbian is a billion times worse
I remember Liking American Beauty when I first watched it but I dont think I might be able to see it again because it was a kinda dull movie. On the techical aspect it was great with beautifull shots and angles and it was edgy at the time when we lived in the sacarine american dream fantasy of the 90s, but it defenitively has not aged well especially with Kevin Spacey as the lead. I think this begs the question: must a history have a morally good character? isnt it patronizing to impose a moral code in the audience?
In the case of America Beauty I must agree however that the film tries to make you root for the protagonist who is a really unlikable misguided person and ultimately that really dampers the mood.
people like to root for unlikable protaganist clearly. look at tony soprano.
American Beauty is what I called a “modern American classic”. There are so many great movies that came out in 1999. The Matrix, Magnolia, Eyes Wide Shut, The Green Mile, Fight Club. Possibly the greatest year in movie history.
Magnolia was terrible. It was a 2 hour casting reel.
@@DVSPress Pithy like a gunslinger!
English Patient was awful..
American Beauty I kind of like, but I don't think it aged well. The English Patient on the other hand was pure boredom.
thats why morality shouldnt matter when writing stories.
I didn't like "Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri" because it basically only has bad (evil/immoral) characters.
It won 9 oscars....NINE! WHY?! Not only did i dislike the characters, but i also felt like the 'romance' was soooo forced. Theres nothing resembling chemistry between the characters. She had a personality of sandpaper, and he wasnt even trying to be nice to her. And then all of a sudden she shows up in his room for no reason, she slaps him. He falls at her feet. Literally rips her dress of her (rude) and then they fuck....what? I felt so often like things happened out of nowhere or to facilitate some 'artsy' line of dialogue that the scriptwriter thought was poetic but feels superdisjointed... Awww im mad at this movie... Whyyyyy?!
your mad at this movie probably because youre a snowflake. Also, you literally didnt watch the movies cause they had an hour of buildup before getting together and he was being nice to her, and what does lack of chemistry even mean to you? what line of dialogue?
American Beauty is one of my top favorites.
Why?
Are you shocked that Hollywood creates characters that are morally compromised?
First
Do you actually like anything? Lol
From what I've seen so far, he liked black panther and the original star wars trilogy, but despises most hollywood movies
I thought he would've been smart enough not to like Black Panther, that surprised me!
The majority of my reviews are positive.
We as human beings have the capacity to be inspired and yearn to better ourselves, and yet our art is now full of anti-heroes, and other despicable characters that don’t interest me.
not true at all. and if anti heroes dont interest because you want to be inspired shows that you want stories to be a form of sel help rather art doesnt it?
Without even watching the video yet, I'll say why I don't like American Beauty. It's a very cynical, nihilistic movie that tries to get me believe a plastic bag blowing in the wind is beautiful. I hate cynical, ugly art.
Sopranos is my favourite show and they are mostly bad people but I love them all, yet I hate those movies as well
why? the characters in english patient are no where near as bad as the ones in sopranos from a moral standpoint.
I agree,I rewatched it..I was sixteen when I first saw the English patient,a bit different watching it mid forties@@lampad4549