What was the Arkenstone and could it be a Silmaril? | Lord of the Rings Lore | Middle-Earth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- The Arkenstone, one of the most Prominent gems in the Lord of the Rings Mythos, plays a huge role in the Dwarven Story. In this video we explore its entire history and properties, and we also compare it to the Silmarils, for they share certain characteristics that are eerily similar!
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In this series, we explore the history of places in Middle-Earth, Characters or events that took place.
The information is presented in an orderly easy to understand way so that it is friendly to people that are new to the Lord of the Rings Lore and Mythos.
If I feature any of your artwork during this video, please drop a message or a comment and I can link your page in the description of my videos!
Quotes:
"As three great jewels they were in form. But not until the End […] shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda"
“the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them”
"Even in the darkness of the deepest treasury the Silmarils of their own radiance shone like the stars of Varda; and yet, as were they indeed living things, they rejoiced in light and received it and gave it back in hues more marvellous than before"
“began to love the Silmarils with a greedy love”
" And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters. "
And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.
"And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered; and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them."
"It was the Arkenstone, the Heart of the Mountain. So Bilbo guessed from Thorin’s description; but indeed there could not be two such gems, even in so marvellous a hoard, even in all the world. Ever as he climbed, the same white gleam had shone before him and drawn his feet towards it. Slowly it grew to a little globe of pallid light. Now as he came near, it was tinged with a flickering sparkle of many colours at the surface, reflected and splintered from the wavering light of his torch. At last he looked down upon it, and he caught his breath. The great jewel shone before his feet of its own inner light, and yet, cut and fashioned by the dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long ago, it took all light that fell upon it and changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot with glints of the rainbow."
"and they knew that those jewels could not be found or brought together again unless the world be broken and remade."
"cast himself into a gaping chasm filled with fire, and so ended"
"The first gems that Feanor made were white and colourless, but being set under starlight they would blaze with blue and silver fires”
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Check out my latest video!: "Dol Guldur - Lord of the Rings Lore"
• The History of Dol Gul...
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So first of all sorry for the delay in uploading this, my PC had some issues and I lost some parts of the audio and had to redo them. As always there are subtitles, and all the quotes are in the description box above. If it's possibly, I'd like some feedback on the audio and music, whether I should decrease the music (if it's too loud), or if you'd prefer audio alone, or if it's fine the way it is. Thanks as always friends, I hope you enjoy it!
Also sorry for the horrible title, couldn't think of a better way to word it, and I didn't want to make 2 different videos on this would have been a bit of a disservice imo! If you can think of a better title, feel free to drop it below and I might change it!
12:46 the music source please? Thank you.
The video is finished at that point :P
GeekZone Hahaha, sorry for that. Meant about 8:25.
the audio was fine! Keep up the good work!!! By the way what about "The Arkenstone: facts and speculations" as a title?
It's called Grommash Hellscream, it's a soundtrack from WoW: th-cam.com/video/IroaLAbltxg/w-d-xo.html :)
The theory about it being one of Feanor's lesser works seems legit as we don't know where Ungoliant went.
Well Ungoliant had consumed the ones given to her so I doubt it was one of those. However, when the Noldor came to Middle-Earth, some of them brought jewels and other precious objects with them, and perhaps some of these other lesser gems were brought also :)
TULKAS ASTALDO Her fate is for the most part unknown. Its believed she went into the south of middle earth and ended up consuming herself because of her endless hunger. However, it is possible she could have survived into later ages.
Yes I know i've read the Silmarillion 4 times and (besides Beren and Luthien) ungoliant and morgoth is my favorite part.
GeekZone; makes sense considering the exile of the Noldor and their talents in working magical gem stones.
TULKAS ASTALDO and you know she probably sought out a deep dark and hidden place like the heart of a mountain.
i dont want to belive, that the arkenstone is one of the simarilions, i think the idea, that the arkenstone is the heart of the lonly mountain is cooler, and it makes the kingdom of erebor much more special, because the dwraves first dug to deep so they awakend the balrog, but then they have erebor and there they dont fight an enemy but the heart of the mountain, as if the mountain understood the broken dwraves and that their desire to dig and crate great halls under the earth, but the gift todo was tained but the tratgedy of Moria, so the mountain "opened" his heart.
or in something along this is what i think. (i mean when there are walking and talking trees aka ents, then why not have "living" mountains)
I prefer it that way also, that perhaps it might have even been a gift from Aule who left it in the mountains for the dwarves, since they were after all his creation. However while researching the Arkenstone I came across this question often, and I felt I should cover it, explain each side's reasoning, but point out that (at least in my opinion) it wasn't one of the Silmarils. However it is still a very interesting part of the lore to discuss!
When the fellowship tries to pass over Caradhras, I seem to remember that they talk about the mountain itself not allowing them to pass.
And maybe the stone giants in the Hobbit were the mountains themselves taking on anthropomorphic forms.
well, "living stone" we have as the giants aswell as the dwarves themself.
The first dwarves were formed from stone and mud by Aule, then given life by ...another Valar I don't remember exactly... and then also given their free will by Eru Illuvatar after the elves awake.
You couldn't cut a silmaril. It is not a silmaril. The silmaril's can't be marred.
I never thought of that...that is such a beautifull way of looking at it!
The arkenstone is quartz doped with radium. It's pretty to look at, but you really should limit your exposure.
I think you might have that backward it's radium encased in quartz... the quartz gives it the clear-ish outer white appearance, but the radium or some other radioactive chemical is within its core that gives its slight radiance. You are able to touch it without it directly hurting you, but sub-atomically the radiation slowly corrupts you into greed. If the radium was on the outside, they would have died of radiation poisoning within a few weeks...
@@skilz8098 you might want to ask your father or grandparents how they recognized clock at night in their time. radium did not hurt the end consumers, but look up radium girls. they painted the clock hands with radium colour.
The two Silmaril that were lost were the ones in the depths of the oceans and the fiery pits of the Arda. The third Silmaril wasn't lost, as it was the one that Beren stole from Melkor and was taken to the Valar who in turn sent it to the heavens as the star Eärendil. The one in the Earth is not one to be found again.
Yes, I'm not sure if you made it towards the end of the video, but I mention this point as a counter to it being the Silmaril that was lost to the Earth :)
GeekZone oh, I must've missed it. Ok.
If the Arkenstone needed to be worked at all, it was not a Silmaril.
I domt think they had to I think they just wanted to make it at least look like a gem to show it off
Do you think silmarils are something like trees? Not, are gems and feanor made them, are his masterpiece obviously he worked on them like a girl with a dress
Probably it was a chunk of the same stuff Feanor made the Silmarils out of, but not actually a Silmaril.
Steven Ringle they knew beauty and NO they would never have put a nick in such a thing
Sorry for answering so late, but could it not been that additional cristals formed around it in the earth? Quarz could have formed and the removal of that quarz could have been meand in the work.
The found a large piece of raw Macguffinite in its natural form.
Oh my God that's rich very clever my friend
Yes he seems to have found a rich vein of humor to mine...
Wow thats mggffin awesome
Well worded, my friend.
Phew, at least it wasn't Plot-onium. That stuff is dangerous.
Thank you so much for answering these questions without shaming the viewer for not knowing everything. I ask friends and they are rude and snobbish to me for not immediately being an expert in Tolkien. His world is one of the most expansive in all worlds
the arkenstone might be a left over shard of the 2 lamps
Interesting theory, considering how huge the lamps were, I guess it is possible. After the lamps were broken, we're told the Land broke and the World itself seemed to go through some significant turmoil. Perhaps that is how it might have reached the Heart of the Mountain.
I rather like that theory.
I love that idea.
Not that the Hobbit movie is worth discussing as far as canon goes, but your proposal makes for an interesting question. If Thranduil was willing to risk war for all those little white gems, that were merely a pale imitation of the Silmarils...what the heck do you think he'd do for a piece of the Lamps? Surely an elf of Thranduil's knowledge and experience would have recognized the Arkenstone for what it was. I figure he'd probably call down an elf apocalypse to gain it, rather than just hand it over for ransom.
where can I find a video on these lamps? can't seem to find it by just searching '2 lamps lotr lore'
Enormously researched and beautifully narrated
Thanks Thomas!
@@GeekZoneMT I agree. You did very well on this one, and I've been explaining the Silmarillion to my half brother and baby sister. They ask SO MANY QUESTIONS but hey, I would be showing massive disrespect to my father if I wasn't as patient with them as he was with me as a kid.😂
Although using the images of Thorin from the hobbit films is an issue. He doesn't at all resemble the way dwarves are described in the books. Jackson made a bad decision.
@@aleksander8497
Jackson replaced someone lmao
The Arkenstone is a silmaril, in the sense that it was inspired by the silmarils. When Tolkien first wrote the Hobbit, he already wrote the stories of the First Age. Those were the stories he wanted to publish, but never could during his life. So he included bits of the Silmarilion in the Hobbit. At the beginning, the Hobbit was not set in Middle Earth, it was a different story. It's only when he wrote The Lord of the Rings that it got included in his legendarium and that he made some changes in the second edition of the Hobbit. So, the silmarils became the Arkenstone and Elu Thingol and Menegroth became the Elven King and his subterranean halls. You can even see some hints of the Nauglamir in the Necklace of Girion (though they have different stories).
Xerxes2005 umm lotr was written before the Hobbit. Not published until later because it was initially rejected.
No. LotR was written after the Hobbit. It has always been a sequel to the Hobbit. Parts of the Silmarillion were written by Tolkien before the Hobbit.
What was rejected earlier was the Silmarillion. Tolkien wrote LotR at the specific request of his publisher, who said no one wanted to read a bunch of dry old elvish myths but more stories about hobbits would be great. Most of LotR was written during WW2 and starting in 1943 he sent it in installments as he wrote them to his son Christopher who was serving with the RAF in Africa.
For the OP. I was drafting a comment saying the same thing when I wrote this! As the Hobbit was written, the Arkenstone couldn't have been a silmaril because the Hobbit took place in a different (but similar) fantasy world in which silmarils had never existed.
The Hobbit originally was intended to take place in a different world, but parts of the Silmarillion (as it existed at the time) crept in. A fairly complete version of the Silmarillion existed even before the Hobbit was written, so the idea of Silmarils was certainly there to be drawn upon.
Whether the Arkenstone would have ended up a Silmaril, or found a different origin had Tolkien visited the question of its origin in later years, is one of those unresolvable questions.
It makes the most sense that the Arkenstone was just crafted from silima. The dwarves found it while mining - it was embedded in the stone at the heart of the mountain. Literally just a pretty crystal, before being crafted; just like the Silmarils.
Wow, I never really thought about that theory of the Arkenstone being a Silmaril - and I agree, I see this as very unlikely. As you said, two of them are lost and the one that isn't lost is accounted for - and it's not the Arkenstone. But I sort of like the idea of it being one of the lesser gems which...might then have become the heart of the mountain. What I always thought fascinating - and what actually explains Thorin's unwillingness to sort of "buy" the Arkenstone back is that if one looks at Norse laws (and the dwarves are darn close to Vikings in many ways), such an heirloom simply COULD not be bought back. It was out of the question - at least as far as I remember. It had to be kept and defended - and if lost, that was really a way more serious issue than just the loss of something one just so happens to own. In this way, whoever owns the Arkenstone owns the mountain. And since it cannot be bought, the only chance to get it back was pretty much to fight for it.
Oh I see, that's a really interesting point about the Norse Laws! I'll consider looking into them for sure for my future videos, as these type of connections are really fascinating!
GeekZone I'm not 100 percent sure about the exact details, but this is as I remember it and I thought it was really fascinating. The Norse culture fits in well also in other contexts - the fact that Kili and Fili at once jump to Thorin's aid a few times, for example. He is their uncle. According to Norse ideas, this family bond is reason enough for them to feel obliged to protect him. And the Arkenstone was yet another of those fitting things. Fascinating video, thank you - and also for explaining the reasons why it's unlikely that it is one of the Silmarils.
Well thats how they Got it Back the dwarves Had the heirlooms of Thranduils Wive according to the Movie i am Not Sure about the Books thought cause i Just started the Hobbit.
I feel that the Arkenstone being the Silmaril lost within the earth, or one of the lesser stones, cheapens its true value. When reading the Hobbit, the Silmarilian, and the Lord of the Rings, it felt disappointing that most of the memorable objects of power were crafted by the elves (Sting and Glamdring, the Palantir, and the Silmarils). We're shown a few examples of Dwarf craftsmanship (Craftsdorfship?) like the mithril armor but it always felt odd that the Children of Aule were getting upstaged in crafting.
Yet this video shows that the Arkenstone is embedded with the history of Durin's folk, carefully dug out of the deep places of the Earth and crafted into a gem of such beauty and splendor by the mightiest of dwarf artisans. Even if it doesn't glow with the light of the Two Trees, the Arkenstone has led to the rise and fall of kingdoms and compelled armies to battle.
You shouldn't need elf magic to craft beautiful things in Arda, especially when you're one of the Children of Aule.
Nice discussion. I always liked to believe it was something far more ancient than even the Silmarils...A star that fell to Earth and from Varda's great labour when she populated the sky with the Stars :)
This question makes no sense, Gandalf watched the Silmarils when he was Olórin in Valinor, so if the Arkestone is a silmaril for sure he will know it, so he saw them when Fëanor make them
"those jewels could not be found or brought together again unless the world be broken and remade". It doesn't necessarily follow that they are found after the last great battle, but it does imply that bringing the 3 jewels together would be a harbinger for the end times. Without all three together even if the Arkenstone is a Silmaril, it isn't by itself a portend of the last battle.
I'm not sure, I've always interpreted that the world would be broken and remade following Dagor Dagorath, and thus I understood as being 'after' the apocolypse
the words "would" and "unless" make the sentence really vague. I was just pointing out that it could be read either way. David Eddings had some great musings on prophecy in his books, the main one that the event gives meaning to the word. The word itself lacks proper context enough to interpret it completely.
Yes I can see what you mean :)
The one thing that gives me pause when it comes to applying the prophecy against the Arkenstone being a Silmaril (or being an encased Silmaril) is that it is returned to the heart of the mountain - to Thorin's tomb - so if it is the Silmaril in the earth, it returns fairly swiftly to its "long home".
What's certain is that the Arkenstone is unique - with the number of delvings the dwarves have made, were every mountain to have such a heart, they'd have a plentiful supply of them. It seems as though the Lonely Mountain formed around the presence of the Arkenstone, and that fits with the encased Silmaril theory - that the earth itself, corrupted in past Ages by Melkor and by the presence of Balrogs and other things that fled the War of Wrath, thrust the gem up and cased it in lesser gemstone.
I love the picture of Smaug at 9:53. My favorite rendition of Smaug.
"The Turd Age"... I'm Sorry.
Train the first
The last thought you had was very poetic and thoughtful. Great telling indeed my friend. Keep up the great videos and we will keep watching them.
Thank you for all the hard and careful work on this channel. Great job.
Thanks Theodore! :)
Yo, if the Arkenstone was the heart of the mountain, was the Lonely Mountain one of those giant rock people from the first Hobbit movie? Idk, I never understood those things
No those are just rock giants, we're never really told much about them in the books. I always used to imagine them to be more humanoid, I think them being literally 'rocks' is just something the films decided to roll with
GeekZone The books do not even make it clear that they are real at all. Very well could have been Bilbo's imagination, or a fanciful way of describing rockfalls during a thunderstorm. Alternatively, it could have just been a throwaway fantasy element Tolkien wanted to write in for a cool effect.
@@LordXehenniar possible as Tolkien also invented the Worms that were later used prominently in dune
@GreyJedi 2001 Me too, I was just thinking about it because of this video
Dude this channel is so good it’s totally underrated
I dig the Skyrim music at the end. Great job, the detail in these videos is transfixing! Definitely have a subscription from me.
Thanks buddy! :)
Man,i loved how romantic is you speculation about the light of orcrist shining through arkenstone. Beautiful
Cheers! :)
These are great videos! I'm so glad you took the time to delve into so many of the unexplained and/or not fully explained aspects of the middle earth legendarium, since there's sooooo much material there. Keep up the great work and thanks!
Love the level of detail in the video with the dwarven soundtracks from the great Battle for Middle Earth games :) Fits perfectly
I cant believe the Elves would allow it stay in the hands of Dwarves, if it where a Silmaril.
The Feanorians were no more tho.
A wonderful synopsis.....I had heard that some believed the Arkenstone to be a Silmariel......but have never taken it seriously....for many of the reasons you mentioned Good job....
Can u do video about what happen with World(HUmans, elfs, dwarfs after War of the ring) in 4th age, i always wondered what happened afterwards. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
I'll add it to my list buddy, thanks for the suggestion!
No they dont interbreed;
Elves- left to the undying lands/ Sindar are implied to be the wood sprites of today's legends
Hobbits- became increasingly secretive and isolated until they are no longer seen
Dwarves- delved so deep that they no longer knew how to reach the surface
4th age is the Age of Man, Tolkein penned a plan for "A New Shadow" or something along those lines, which is set in 4th age Gondor. But in the end he found it too depressing to write
I haven't watched yet, but im going to say it was not. If it were there are elves who would remember it. They would have attacked Erabor long before Smaug came into the picture.
Awesome video Geek I love The Arkenstone and when I first heard the theory of it being one of the three Silmarils I immediately found it quite unlikely and abserd and thanks to your truly brilliant and great theories and speculation (as I have said before) people can now finally put that theory to rest and I also love your theory about Orcist enbuing light into The Arkenstone to make it shine so bright in Thorins Tomb I also find it a possibility that somehow The Arkenstone is one of The Lesser Gems that Feanor had crafted as a stepping stone to the Silmarils too anyway loved this video and keep up you're awesome work! :)
Thanks Luke, that's very kind of you buddy! :)
GeekZone Your welcome man! :)
That could be, but it leaves the question of how it got deep under Erebor before anyone else had been digging there, and why the dwarves had to cut and polish it like a raw gem.
I'm not a serious LOTR enthusiast (although I'm obviously captivated by what Tolkien has created), but these are awsome videos man. Keep up the good work and all the best to you!
I recognize your Maltese accent! Glad to see a fellow Malteser doing what he loves on youtube! :D
Thanks man! :) I'm surprised at how many comments I get from Maltese people, didn't know it would reach so many of us haha
Thought it was scottish, but I'm not a native speaker, but I think that your voice really compliments the atmosphere of the Middleearth.
I love this. I recently discovered a decently popular youtuber with a danish accent i also recognized in a second. Funny how what works
Huh neat.
I was going to guess Southern France.
The Silmarils don't burn everyone's hands that hold them. Well, at least not literally. Beren, Thingol, the Dwarves of Nogrod, Elwing handled the one fine. But, they did get burnt figuratively over it. Beren, for example, lost the hand that held it, not because it burned him (which it didn't) but because it was bitten off by the great wolf Carcharoth, Silmaril and all. Carcharoth was driven mad from the burning. Beren had just stolen the one Silmaril from Melkor/Morgoth, whom it did burn, though Morgoth wore them anyway.
They are cursed, but they only literally burn the evil or the unjust. Feanor's sons where unjust. The Silmarils burned them literally and figuratively, doubly so for Maedhros.
I referred to mortal hands due to this quote: "And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered; and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them."
Elwing and Thingol were Elves so this 'spell' the Varda cast on it didn't affect them since they were not mortals. The Dwarfs of Nogrod are an odd case, since they're mortals and yet handled it. Perhaps gloves were used or it was an oversight? Regarding Beren it seems to be an odd case, as after he recovers the Silmaril, we're specifically told that it didn't burn his hand. It would seem odd for Tolkien to specify this unless he was referring to the 'mortal flesh' in the quote above. Some speculate that Beren despite being mortal, was deemed worthy, after 'saving' the Silmaril from its evil owner and past, or because he was driven out of his love for Luthien and not out of greed for the Silmaril, though we can't really be sure on this. I would find it odd if the quote I posted didn't hold it true, as it's quite an important prominent one when it comes to the Silmarils
It just leaves some room to speculate.
I think you're right with it having to do with Beren's love. Also, I think that it was interesting that Beren was tasked with retrieving one Silmaril for his love. The instant that he tried to free the other two, his blade broke, nearly waking up Morgoth. That and Beren did lose that hand shortly after, holding true for the withering part.
Oddities like this though can be fun to toy with. For example, if we were to judge whether or not the Arkenstone is a Silmaril with both this oddity in mind and my reasoning, then what ill fate befell Bilbo? Nothing as far as I know. Unless you count the burden of The Ring. But to me that would seem to have little to do with the Silmarils.
Question;
I have 'the Hobbit', 'the Lord of the Rings', 'the Children of Hurin', and 'Unfinished Tales', is there any other essential book that I should have?
GeekZone
Ok, you pointed out something that I haven't considered before. While on most points, I find enough wiggle room to rule out the possibility that the Arkenstone is absolutely not a Silmaril, that does not necessarily follow therefore that it must be a Silmaril when there are other possibilities.
The Silmarils glow with their own internal gold and silver light, while the Arkenstone seems to shine with a white light and a rainbow of colors. This could be taken as it's being just an exceptionally well crafted diamond made by the dwarves or with considerance of its etymology and in addition to the effects that it had on Thorin, as one of Feanor's proto-silmarilli. I'm leaning now towards the Arkenstone's being the later.
Thanks.
That's kind of the whole story of Beren and Luthien. There was something special about him, he was something more. And that strength was carried down through that line, and includes Elrond, his brother (yes they weren't full elves they were mixed breeds) and the entire line of kings of Numenor, down to Aragorn (yes Aragorn is related to Elrond). The people of Numenor and their descendants the Dunedain aren't actually pure Human. They are part Elf and part Maiar too, and the human part of the lineage is from Beren.
With that logic, one might also say that the dwarven kings that held the arkenstone also got "burned" by it in a figurative manner. I mean, an actual dragon did come and burn them out even... It was only after the arkenstone was no longer held as a symbol of power that the realm of Erebor truly prospered
Man i love this channel it gives me somethin to ponder all day. And the audio and music are perfect keep it up
Thanks mate, I appreciate it! :)
Very good video. It's a pity that we cannot ask Tolkien!
I agree with your speculation that the Arkenstone could have been one of Feanor's lesser gems, but was most definitely not a Silmaril. It definitely has unique qualities, but saying that a crystal could have grown around the Arkenstone, and that was what the dwarves were mining, just seems too big of a stretch, in my opinion.
But great video! I only discovered you recently. Your videos are of excellent quality, and I made a good choice to subscribe!
if it is true, Smaug is more powerful than Morgoth . Even Morgoth couldn't be free from silmarils's power, that lizzard sleep on it more than hundred years
Except Smaug wasn't a being corrupted by purest malice
8:20 The Turd Silmaril
I did not know such a treasure existed!
Tolkien says what The Arkenstone is: he said it’s the Heart of the Mountain. Burying it with Thorin makes sense.
Good video - well presented and outlined
The Arkenstone collects and breaks light that falls upon it, it's inherent emmission of light is pale. The Silmarils shine brightly on their own, and can't be touched by anyone without enduring pain. So I think there are already two fundamental differences in their properties. I don't understand why this hypothesis gained so much attention in the first place. Cool video 👍🏻
Arkenstone was a prototype for the simerils, is what I believe. Lost or failed to be consumed by Ungoliant, but her attempts to consume it weakened the shell so that the dwarves could cut it….
I believe it was a Silmaril.
It makes sense. As for 'It cannot be cut', we can have a numerous of arguments for it such as the Dwarves was the first race to be awoken by were told to go back to sleep. It could had been magma buildup that had solidified around it. Could just be that their greatest blacksmith of the Dwarves rivaled Feanor in craftmanship. Finding it may also be the first indication that the time of ending is getting closer.
Gandalf would recognize a silmaril im sure, he has seen them.
Your videos are incredible! TONS of info on LOTR that I never knew. Excellent job!
Love this videos you show views from both sides and then give what you believe, well done
Cheers Taylor! :)
I had never heard this theory before, that the Arkenstone might be a Silmaril or a lesser gem of Feanor. Very intriguing. Thanks for putting this together! You do good a very good job.
Thanks mate!
Beautiful. I love your videos and narratives. Please do a video on the Ents and their origin. Plus, the skyrim music in the background fits perfectly 😉
I just ran across your channel and am blown away. I am subscribing now.
@GeekZone using that Skyrim background music over this video is hilarious
Hey I love your videos I'm a huge Tolkien fan could you do a video on the dragons of middle earth and fel beasts
Middle-Earth + Skyrim Music= The best video ever!
I haven’t watched this video yet, but pleased to see that someone else has considered that the Arkenstone may have been one of the Silmarils. My theory was that simply because the thought that it could’ve been never occurred to any of the characters who obtained the stone that meant that no curse came to pass, no ancient elves rose up in anger, and so on. Also, if I remember right, one of the Silmarils went missing in that region.
That you. I love these. You've put a lot of work into them, and it shows.
10:50 I'm not a professional with the lore and such but one could also say that it maybe found 'again'. It was first found during Thrors time but lost after after some years when Smaug came and the Arkenstone was buried under a mountain of gold. Then many years later it was found by Bilbo and all that stuff happened. Finally the Arkenstone was 'lost' again when being buried with Thorin and given back to the mountain.
Loving your video essays!
Love from Portugal 🇵🇹
Nice job of using the BFME2 dwarven soundtracks. I had wondered of the Arkenstone, the theory in the beginning is definitely intriguing to say the least. I was not super familiar with Feanor's history, especially with the creation of other gems of light as a form of practice that lead to the silmarils. You could almost draw the line of similarity between Celebrimbor and Feanor, granted their practice objects were either better/harmless in the beginning, or the finished product was lethal or great. Such as the rings of power made by Celebrimbor, but that were then lead to the creation of the elven rings of power. Feanor had made these beautiful but possibly harmless beginners stones (such as the arkenstone possibly), but then the beautiful and enthralling silmarils, which could be argued to be nothing but a curse for whoever desired it or had possessed them.
Both the Silmarils and the Elven Rings of Power were also created to preserve the beauty and wonder of the world from hurts. The Silmarils preserved the light of the Two Trees immortal, and the Elven Rings were made to preserve the Elven lands from change and fading.
Thanks man, I love using the bfme soundtracks whenever I can! I agree with your points, you bring up some very interesting ones! :)
the Silmarils themselves were not cursed. A doom was set upon the kinslayers who killed other elves in Valinor over the Silmarils. That line of elves was cursed, not the Silmarils.
You could easily make that link.. with Feanor being the first of his house and Celebrimbor being the last, both made pretty powerful (and powerfully pretty) jewels, both died pretty unpleasantly. All Feanor needs is to appear in a next-gen non-canon AAA console game as a wraith-counterpart to a cursed ranger and they would be all but identical ;)
A note on magma currents: no one in the 1930s had ever heard of plate tectonics or magma currents, that was all discovered starting in the 1960s. Wegener had proposed the theory of continental drift in the 1920s, but nobody else believed it, no one but a few geologists knew much about it, and the mechanisms by which it worked, like plate subduction, mid-ocean spreading, mantle convection, and hotspots, were completely unknown, which is why no one believed the theory. In the 1930s no one had any real understanding of the inner structure of the earth (other than that it was very hot and there were some sort of layers that affected the paths of seismic waves) or any idea why volcanoes occurred where they did or where the magma came from other than down in the ground. So it's extremely unlikely that Tolkien would have imagined the Arkenstone to have been brought to Erebor from somewhere else on the planet by magma currents.
Odd thought. Did Morgoth fashion Dragons as mockeries of Dwarves, as Trolls were of Ents and Orcs were of Elves?
Davis FourOhFour i think goblins would fit better in that role, since they lived simmilar lives
Dragons are mockeries of eagles.
This is a wonderful and fascinating video! I like your thinking. Wasn't the light in Frodo's glass from a Simaril? How did Galadriel get into the glass if it could not be worked? I also was sad that so beautiful a stone was 'placed on Thorin's chest' - Why not in a setting above the coffin, or as you suggested, above the throne? The chance would also be that in some future age someone would defile Thorin's grave to get the stone.
If noone knows it's there, it could pass out of knowledge, same as the ring did for 2500 years
Great video. Just want to point out that - I think it was Varda herself who said that the stones would not suffer mortal hands to hold them, yet Beren who himself was mortal did indeed hold one of these and suffered no burns at all - Until of course his hand was bitten off by the great wolf Carcharoth; so perhaps someone of pure heart could hold them without having any ill effect. I feel Bard and Bilbo were not evil in any way - and thus this can be used as a counter argument as to why they were able to hold them. It may well have burned Smaug but he may have known that and simply chose not to touch it, as long as he could see it and had it in his possession. I still think since it was buried as well with Thorin upon his death, you could still count this to mean that it is still in it's permanent home - The earth, until the end of the world.; with everything included, I feel that it IS a silmaril due to it's effect it had on Thorin, the Great Jewels and the Great Rings (Bar maybe the three elvish ones) all had this effect on people, at least if they gave any thought to them or had them in their possession for long. The reason why Thranduil maybe didn't recognise it is that he is the King of the woodland realm, and although he may have dwealt in Ossiriand or in Doriath during the First age in Beleriand, he may not have ever had contact or seen the silmaril, and so may not have realised what it was. Galadriel and maybe Elrond would have recognised it instantly.
Great video. I liked that you included some of the history of the dwarves too. Funny enough I was just reading the bloodline lore the other day
Thanks man, I felt it did explain a significant part of the Arkenstone's history, of why it was moved from one spot to the other, so had to incorporate it :)
Great video. You have a lot of knowledge about LOTR and I love the stories you tell about it. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing this.
Cheers Stephen!
Awesome! What tremendous Legendarium skill! I’m writing a Dungeons and Dragons campaign, and you’ve helped me a lot with Tolkien knowledge and lore theory. Thank you!
I don't think it could have been a silmaril just to to the fact that Gandalf, being a Maia, at the very least knew of the silmarils if not seen them, and would have recognised it when Bilbo gave it to Bard and co.
Gandalf, of all people, would know enough to not make a fuss over such a thing being found. Knowing enough to know that the time is not yet right for the Silmarils to be officially found, he would naturally say nothing.
Another couple thoughts are the Silmarils were hallowed by Varda (most people would not be able to even hold one) also they were crafted jewels the arkenstone was not
The theory is that the Arkenstone formed around the Silmaril, allowing people to handle it (as people would be able to hold a box containing a Silmaril, or walk on a planet containing a Silmaril, etc) and also giving the dwarves something they could shape.
Lol ok "2 of the 3 Silmarils will remain lost until the end of Arda" since the 3rd one is not lost and rests on the brow of Earandil does this not imply that the other 2 will remain lost until it is time for them to be broken and their light be used to revive the 2 trees? Lol I love these kind of theories but I feel this one is the equivalent of a flat earth. :D but i could be wrong lol.
When it comes to prophecy, wording is important. I don't have the text to hand, but my recollection is that it talks about the gems finding their "long homes" to stay there until the breaking of the world.
There's also wiggle room in that if the Arkenstone contains a Silmaril, that Silmaril was never found, merely the gem containing it.
Your second final thought is delightful.
Great video like always and you are my favourite youtuber, and I get most excited when I see you made a new video more than any other youtuber.
Thanks man! :)
Great video! I liked your thought of the Goblin Cleaver glowing through the Arkenstone when goblins are near. I don’t think the Arkenstone was made by Feanor since the dwarves cut it. I could believe it was made of the same kind of mineral as the Silmarils though.
Thanks Matt!
WONDERFUL VID. ENJOYED IT GREATLY. WELL DONE YOU!
Great video! I have only now stumbled upon your channel, but man you speak my language! Keep up the good work, ill be watching from here on out.
Cheers Jason, hope you enjoy them buddy!
I just think that the Arkenstone was what it was described as from the beginning: The Heart of the Mountain. We see many cases in Tolkien's world where the inanimate have just as much power and sentient-like qualities as living beings. As being the Heart of Erebor it could also be a remnant of Aule's craftiness or rather a signature of his work as he designed the mountains and landscape in the days before the 1st Age.
Perhaps someone was trying to recreate a Simaril and couldn't quite get the "recipe" right. Maybe Sauron made it, before the forging of the Rings. He tried to recreate the Simarils but failed and moved onto the Rings.
I love your speculations. They are always so brilliant!
The confidence with which you call it the turd age.. hilarious. Good vid.
I love all the artworks you show in your vids
Thank you, though all credit goes to the artists that made them!
Thank you for this beautiful video. I hadn’t thought of this before
Ohhh this guy is using elder scrolls background music
Got my abonnement 🤙👍
An interesting question. In recent times, I’ve noticed people wondering if the arkenstone is one of the silmarils. To me it’s a straight “yes”.
Firstly, the silmarils and the arkenstone share some sort of resemblance in terms of the way and manner the both jewels are valued above all treasures by the both kindreds during the both ages.
Secondly, it was closely bound to the hearts of the owners and it instigates a sort of lust that was entangled with a dangerous, jealous and greedy love for it by the owners. Who were high lords of the both kindreds. Kings by right. And moreover the both were stolen by two greater powers of darkness during the ages.
And, it was said that the silmarils holds the fate of Aarder. One shall be on the skies, the other beneath the earth and the last one beneath the ocean. And it came to past that Earendil bore one in the sky, Maedhros tossed it into a volcanic mountain, while Maglor tossed his into the sea. And so all were fulfilled.
So maybe the one thrown into the mountain was later discovered by the dwarves as the arkenstone. Moreover the geographical structure during the ages in between these times were different and changed due to the wars of Balenriand and middle earth itself.
Even if any believes that the silmarils could not be marred because its adamant and hallowed, I’d still doubt if that could be true. Because it could still be redesigned are or hewed to make up a new thing mainly characterized by hope. Especially by the greatest of smiths that were possibly tutored by Aule the valar or even any other valar. This was evident when Yevanna said if she could recall life to the trees before their roots decay if she could have a little of that light in the silmarils. Meaning it could be shared in pieces if necessary
i realized that the background music used in this video was Sandman's Creation scene in Spider Man 3 which is very awesome.
"...we're also told that 2 of the 3 Silmarils would remain lost until the end of Arda..." The 3rd one that ISN"T lost is the one that Earendil is wearing upon his forehead in the heavans as he pilots Vingilot. That would leave the 2 Silmarils, lost to sea and earth, as the ones that "would remain lost until the end of Arda." It's just a nice gem. Many Tolkien texts reference various gems and treasures of the earth, and we can just assume it is one of these without assuming the extreme of it being a silmaril or a shard of the lamp (although the lamp idea is pretty cool). No, the point of the Silmarils' fate is that they are removed from the Children of Illuvatar, not to be reused.
Nice vid. Could you perhaps make a video about the Easterlings?
Thanks Tom! I'd very much like to cover either the Easterlings or the Haradrim in the following weeks, have to see which I'll do first. Perhaps I'll make another poll on the FB Group and let the subs decide! But It will happen for sure :)
Very interesting video. Good Skyrim music at the end ;-)
Cheers mate!
Honestly, I think the biggest clue that the Arkenstone is not a Silmaril comes from the fact that the Elves never tried to take it back. Remember, after the kin-slaying, Feanor got the Noldorian elves to swear a fearsome oath that they would not let anyone or anything keep them from a Silmaril. If any of the remaining Noldrian elves (Galadriel for example) even suspected that the Arkenstone was a Silmaril, they would have demanded to see it under threat of war. So one assumes that they either did not think it a Silmaril, or checked it out and some point.
Just another great video! Keep up the good work, my friend!
Lauren
Thanks mate! :)
You clearly disproved the theory. But I seem to recall that the Arkenstone by itself had evil detecting property like Sting. This would be consistent with elven crafts. Also the description gemologicaly fits an Opal.
I can't recall it having such a property, do you remember where you might have read it? As I don't think it was in the Hobbit
I also wondered if it was one of the Silmarils...thanks for the explanation.
I agree with you on the origin of the Arkenstone, although it may have been placed by Eru Iluvatar to be found by the Dwarves at the right time. I like your theory better though.
I got caught by the Idea of the arkenstone refracting the light of the phial of galadriel, that basically contained the flash of a silmaril.
I bet it would be a light that could pierce even through Sauron's defenses, like the clouds he summoned to protect his army.
Maybe. I note that Thranduil, unnamed in The Hobbit, bears many similarities to Thingol. I'm glad that JRRT was able to expand on his imaginary world in the Rings Trilogy, along with posthumously in the Silmarillion, The Unfinished Tales, et. al. I like Thranduil better as his own unique self.
Very thoughtful and stimulating your contemplations. I wonder... Aulë created the dwarves out of impatience for the rising of the Children of Iluvatar. Impatience, and so in a way, a greed for the creation. As good and loving of Iluvatar as was Aulë, it could be that this selfishness on his part is what infused the first Dwarves with a residual impatience, greed, selfishness for things of great craft and value?
Your thought that the burying of the Arkenstone with Thorin could symbolize the progress of the Dwarves to a kinder and wiser heart is consistent with Tolkien's general theme of Iluvatar's weaving all the elements of the song, even those apparently discordant, into the song. :D
Just love this channel. I don't think the Arkenstone is a silmaril, as its power, although great, does not quite seem to be a match for the gems of Feanor. Love your final conclusion regarding the burial of the Arkenstone showing, as it does, a real spiritual growth of the dwarves. I think your conclusion here is one that Tolkein would agree with.
The music at the end of the video, as you do the outro... that's Oblivion ambient music, unless I'm VERY mistaken.
i'm loving these videos, also loving the Skyrim music at the end of this, also I love being maltese
They specifically said "the heart of the mountain" and in FOTR we lear that mountains are living beeings when saruman tries to wake up the mountain while gandalf tells it to go back to sleep
Erebor could have been the pit where the Silmarill was thrown. Maybe his location can be linked to the place where Morgoth lost (Erebor is in Middle Earth's North, as the last battle against Morgoth. Plus, if the volcan, active at the end of 1st age, can be extinguished at the third age.
An amazing recap. Thanks, Geek. :)
I agree that laying the stone to rest with thorin was a wonderful symbol of moving past their greed while being an honorary gesture to thorin and his liniage. I also think that, had they proudly displayed the stone in their halls, history would only repeat itself with the stone drawing in the greed of enemies.
Very very interesting, definitely something to ponder on, Cheers!!!
Thanks mate!
Congrats on 8k subscribers!
Cheers buddy!
I m sorry but the spider man 3 music at the beginning made me laugh 😅 cause its has no link with Lotr but still a pretty soundtrack that fits, nice video 👍
12:16 Skyrim music nice touch