You did more than analyse the poem, you taught how to analyse a poem and that is something a lot of lectures have failed to do. I skipped class to watch your videos instead... Good man.
The hemispheres refer to two halves of a world making up one world..... It's also what was said earlier in the line: "each has one, and is one"... basically meaning that each of them in this relationship has a part (this 'part' they have and are willing to give to each other- is a reference to the heart they see through the eyes- the eyes are the window to the soul, in this case to the heart) of themselves to give to the other (in order to complete the other's life and thus their own)is one half of a wolrd (a hemisphere) and together make up one world.... It's as simple as that. The idea of the eye being a hemisphere also talks about how they see one another in each other's life, in each other's world. It's like acceptance and embracing the fact that they now belong together... hence they have no fear when they look into each other's eyes. Think of it in a manner of how-- to look one in the eyes is a matter of courage, confidence, even daringness. We usually use this line when talking about facing ones fears and staring fear or circumstance in the eyes. We also use it when we say things like- "He can't even look me in the eyes and talk." when we mean that the person is either deceitful, dishonest or even ashamed. Here however, they feel none of those negative things, and are able to honestly look one another in the eyes. Hence the opening line: "I wonder by my troth,..." Also, whe talking about "soul" earlier, it isn't necessarily a religious connotation, at least not in the conventional sense. The word soul is merely a synonym for the word life. (People mistake spirit and soul to have the same meaning, when they clearly naver have been in any sense). Just as a person might say- "Not a soul was present there", indicating that a place was devoid of living presence, so also, by saying "goood morrow to our waking souls" it's as though they've been awakened into a new life. They have been sleeping. Remember what was said about sleep in Macbeth- that it is "death's counterfeit".... Many take death to mean an eternal slumber. So also, it's like they've awakened from a death-like sleep, like the life they lived before having met eachother wansn't really living, because they engaged in mere survival. In literature, there is a clear difference made between living and existing. Exisiting is what we all do, but living happens when we gain meaningfulness, passion, a reason to thrive rather than just survive. That's what Donne feels he has just gained with his beloved. They have awakened (almost resurrected) into a new life. Hence, everything before this was a mere dream, because they were asleep. Nothing was real, all just a dream. Nothing meant so much before. And you're wrong about Donne being the first to say the whole "we two are one" staement. it was said by Jesus (1500 years prior to Donne) when he told his followers: "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one put assunder.” which he was basiccaly repeating what was said in Genesis 6000 years ago in Gen.2:24. Nothing new about it.
I like the connection you make in that first paragraph there, Franklin. Nicely done. Truth to look them in the eye. The Plato/ Jerry McGuire You complete me stuff. I don’t think I said Donne was the first to use the we two are one. I say it probably wasn’t as clichéd in his day as it may sound in ours. I think Plato’s got first dips on it in that perfect human being split in half and wanting to rejoined stuff. So he’s got it down in print before the Biblicals did. Great points again though. Many thanks.
@@mycroftlectures I like that you think Plato had it down first when Moses wrote the book of Genesis in the Pentateuch much earilier, in the 7th century BCE.
@@colonelalister Well, you'd have to be far far more religious than me to believe that. I hold no religious beliefs at all. Quite the contrary in fact. I'm not so much atheist as anti-theist. But that aside, the point is that today we may hear the 'two hearts as one' trope in an overused somewhat "greeting card" cliche'd way, as I certainly do, that quite possibly would not have been the same reaction as Donne's original audience had, no matter who we think first coined it.
@@mycroftlectures It has nothing to do with religion but purely historical and archaeological. Carbon dating & all that stuff... lol. Also, while the original coinage may not matter in terms of chronology, it's exciting to uncover where Donne might have got his inspiration from. Nonetheless, great explanation overall. Helped me a tonne. Thank you so much. Do keep making more of these.
Dear Andrew, thank you so much for your lecture and for the attention you pay to the learning styles of your public. I'll use your lessons in my own lessons with my students in Milan. Roberta
As always i sit back in my armchair late at night listening to every word, every now and then i look over to my ipad screen, the out of focus pages and the sharp well lit image of the lecturer and i feel giddy. Once again i wish the setting was in a small cosy library with an open fire 🔥
Humbly: He takes up the one world metaphor of the 2nd stanza with "Where can we find two better hemispheres / Without sharpe North, without declining West? Their "better hemispheres" are absent the bitter cold of the northern latitudes and without the strife and war found in the present west (Europe). Great video.
How I perceive this poem is that it seems to be a sweet and love poem addressed to a girl the speaker loves. In the first stanza, he might explain how they were probably young, childish, and obsessed with sex, not like they are now, truly in love with each other. He goes on saying in the second stanza that their relationship involves passion, sincerity, and souls with each other and they don’t need to be linked to the world since they have already formed their joint world or their bedroom is already become the whole world at that moment. And last he claims that each of them is a single hemisphere and they tries to combine with each other to build a whole world together with their love and passion. Since their love is well-balanced and in proportion, their true love thus will never weaken or die. Added, it is quite obviously that there is a shift from the physical relationship to the spiritual love. ‘But’ in the first stanza makes a contrast and claims that all the past physical activities seems to be meaningless. I think the poet might suggest that the ‘physical love’ might contains loads of uncertainties and each of them might be afraid of betrayal. However, uncertainty and fear does not work in the true love or ‘spiritual love’. Once each of them have already built the spiritual connection, they so-called true love can control the temptation of other things. They might considered to be the joint owner of their own world. If those two single hemispheres continue to combine together, they are not afraid of separation or break up of their relationship.
...Thanks for your response. It’s irresistable not to answer at least one of the (rhetorical?) questions. The first time I visited the National Portrait Gallery in 2007, the 1595 painting of the young lover had been bought six months earlier. I knew nothing about that and suddenly standing face to face with the portrait was like receiving a punch. I immediately recognized the face, not handsome but arresting, and was surprised by the overwhelming self-reliance of the attitude. As the quotable lines of the poems popped up from my memory I realized that I shouldn’t be surprised. Poems and portrait intertwined and completed each other. Evidently this should have been the portrait attached to The Good Morrow, but now I think I know why it isn’t: like me, you simply didn’t know it existed!...?... It has been claimed that words are more revealing than the picture. Perhaps, but with Donne I see no rivalry only cooperation because both are deliberate. Donne ordered the paintings himself and they tell us how he wanted to be seen. A calculated self-invention! Prompted by self-preservation. He reflects on the power of pictures in “His Picture” and “Witchcraft by a Picture”, and he has a sense of quality. After Donne’s death the inventory showed that he kept a Mary Magdalen by Tizian in his bedroom. The portrait of the older Donne that we see here, by the famous Isaac Oliver, shows him handsome and well groomed. Far too handsome: the characteristics of the face are tuned down. The devil has left. King James needed a pious man and this is the priest and poet of the Holy Sonnets, but still not a humble person. Doesn’t it matter that he i linked to the love poem? A meagre consolation may be found in the pessimistic view (a Donne-paradox) that many don’t look that close on a portrait. A wet blanket though. I see that I can be accused of romanticizing. Quite ironic because I believe that Romanticism is the number one obstacle when it comes to understand old poetry. In order to de-romanticize - as an experiment - I try to set the poem as a dramatic monologue, inserting a narrator. It hurts but is there anything in the text to contradict it? Thus the silent girl is no longer a person you can pitch a poem to, and honestly I can’t see that Donne ever individualized her enough for that. At the same time the arrogance of the ‘we’ evaporates. The ultimate test to see If the poem is no longer blurred by an overlay of Romanticism would be to have a positive answer to the question: “ Is it possible to imagine John Donne reading this poem aloud to his circle of student friends?” Please don’t be mistaken by my blunt Danish style. I sound like a teacher and it’s definitely the other way round. I have learned so much from you and I am so grateful. Donne (+1 other writer) was the only one to stay when I banned everything English. John Donne is an old friend and it was this Mycroft Lecture that made me decide to reopen the door to the English. I could not have wished for a better or more reliable guide. Thank you for reading this far. I shall never write such a long comment again.
Beautifully presented , clear and concise and treats the 'viewer/listener' in a very direct and open manner..I personally felt uplifted by your reading of John Donne as I am so often disappointed by readings that I have come across, usually rather pedantic and almost formulated and lacking in a dynamic..no matter how apparently the erudition of the speaker. So thank you..You bought Donne to life rather than kill his spark..
Very helpful explanation. Because of lockdown all educational institutes were closed, so students are the worst sufferers, lacking behind with their syllabus. Online classes were not enough for proper explanation, since it takes a lot of time and well internet connection. I myself being a student found it extremely helpful. Thank You
Thank you for making this poem accessible without losing it’s charm even inspiring further investigation: If I were less interested in portraits I would certainly be happy with the standard portrait we see here. That of the respected Doctor Donne. Dean and widower. But with this poem I would have preferred the portrait of the young lover the, the world is my oyster Jack Donne from 1595. There are plenty of interesting portraits on the internet. From the catholic teenager, sword in hand, to the dying Donne in his shroud, and by good artists. Self-promotion in style. . .As for the line “And true plain hearts.....” I found out that at the time, the map of the world was represented in the shape of a heart (cordiform). Thus the poem describes the mirroring heart of each lover, and plain means flat. This fits in with the poem. To call it a display of learning would be hateful. (There seems to be a tradition of hating Donne) after all Donne was interested in these things and “We find our inspiration where we might”. (Your sonnet 1). . . Regarding the IF in the final triplet, French has an if (si) of certainty as well as that of supposition. My one-volume OED does not give that option, but why should it not be possible in Renaissance English? It would marry the rhetoric. . . . .This is too long. If (?) I find this interesting it doesn’t give me the right to take other people’s time.
A fascinating reply that I've only just noticed and missed when you posted it. On the portraits point, and this is slightly tangential, as this is more than likely to be the first look people have had of Donne as the author of the poem don't you think his age in the picture matters? And the way he looks? I mean, it shouldn't . . . but don't you think it does? If the picture attached is of an old or ugly man, the poem appears more lecherous or maybe violent. If the attached picture is of a younger more handsome version of the same man we may be inclined to read it differently. And yet we all age and few of us do so for the better. The picture attached to the author should have no relevance to how we view what was written. And I fear that even on a subconscious level it undeniably does. Same with all pictures attached to authors of course, but when you have lifetimes worth of pictures to select from picking the wrong one could do a disservice to the poet and the poem. Unfortunate, but true.
I think line four can also allude to the hazy state of smoking in an opium den ("snorting" and "den"), or simply being under the influence of a stimulant that creates only artificial and transient satisfaction and apparitions of beauty. This seems to accord with the idea of "dreaming," "fancies" and whims, but finally "waking" to each other.
Donne depicts his love his lover, not only in terms of platonic relationship but on a spiritual level. To him, the physical reunion between the two bodies is an important pathway towards the awakening of soul and spiritual love. Once lovers are united, oneself will be completed by the other. It is interesting that the poem contains some religious references including the soul, the Catholic story and mortality. If two love each other the same way can achieve morality, then what role would religion be or is it somehow diminished intentionally in the poem?
I really liked the analysis . The last part was like a twist of 'Game of thrones'. All the time , you think its spirit, in the end its just 'cant' be .
Again, an insightful talk. A few suggestions: although it is tempting to import our rather limited, current usage of the word "plain" into this discussion, in Donne's time "plain" threw a much wider net of associations, including: unadorned (lacking artifice), full, complete, non-material, adult (as in "plain age"), and demonstrably alive (as in "plain life"). Mirrors were also a preoccupation of this period, and when Donne refers to two lovers looking into each others' eyes (as if into mirrors) the visual effect for the listener would have likely included this conjury: the curved, infinitude of worlds created by one mirror reflecting into the other, essentially multiplying the lovers' "little room" into everywhere and everything.
Thanks. Some good and useful points/additions. I particularly like the eye reflecting eye reflecting eye image, even if you'd have to have far better eyesight than my own to actually pull this off. Mind you, seeing myself in someone else's eyes would be a strain these days.
Thank you for the lesson. Just a thought: the "sharp north" suggested to my the sharpness of cold, not the sharpness of a compass needle. This fits with the other idea of hemispheres "declining" in the west - our love does not decline or grow less. In the same way our love is not cold, like the north.
I used to study the poem when I was studying a drama called "W;t". I always thought that John Donne loves talking about Death or things about death like his poem, "Death, be not proud". This poetry is different. It's different from what I expect Donne to be like. Throughout the whole poetry, the idea he tries to convey is "we" together can be the "world". I cannot determine whether it would be a radical idea on his era but I'm sure that it's constructed with fascination for love and the one he loves. In my opinion, cliche is something brilliant that too many people love to apply it then it turns out to be a common interpretation. I love the way that Donne portrayed "love". It's either "we are the world" or "us against the world" that makes "none can die". A really romantic one, even that it contains some erotic images.
I was once doing an essay about this poem, and my first assumption was that they were in love with each other already, and the image that I pictured in my head was the couple sleeping next to each other as usual. I didn't think about your interpretation that the two of them actually just met and made out for the first time. The whole thing seems more explainable under your interpretation than the my assumption. Also, someone told me that in some wedding ceremony, this poem would be read aloud as a celebration but she doesn't feel appropriate because of the uncertainty at last. Although the poem is mainly about how excessively a man loves his lover, the last stanza expresses some uncertainty. 'If' is used and there are still 'two love' at that stage, that means the woman probably still hasn't responded yet. But in my opinion, the uncertainty could be used very explicitly during wedding. A wedding is exactly the situation for the bride and the groom to respond to each other's love.
Line three - IMO he's talking about what they did with others BEFORE they met - fun affairs and adventures without real emotional impact, NOT what they did together last night. I'd also take that he's treating her as an equal in this regard - that she too has had fun experiences in the past, and he respects that. Possible links to Confined Love?
By studying this poem with "To His Coy Mistress", we can see the difference between the metaphysical poet like Andrew Marvell. As both poems were about "sex" in a way, their ideas and how they presented the ideas of love were quite different. In "To His Coy Mistress", Andrew Marvell used a lot of similies that were not real and making sense which Shakespeare critized and told his fellows poets to avoid in "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun". However, the similies used in this poem were concrete examples like sea voyages and eye, which was quite different from Marvell's similies. The way I see this poem is that it looks like a very sweet poem to the girl he just spent a night with that we can see him complimentig the girl which I really like the line ""If ever any beauty I did see, which I desire and got, t'was but a dream of thee.". It may have sounded wrong as you have mentioned the two possible meanings of this sentence but for me, it is the meaning that he complimented all the beautiful things he had seen was just a dream of this girl. However, as you have mentioned that the love feelings might not be mutual, the "if" in "if our two loves be one" in the third stanza in the poem really caought my eye. It sounded like he was making up for the bad time/sex last night. If you love me in the same way I love you, then you might not die. I do not know if it is wrong or not. But for me, it sounded like he was scared that she might not love him so he would say this in order to calm himselfof the fear of losing her, maybe? 1. I wanted to know more about the "feare" in the second stanza. Is it a fear of losing her once they had sex? Or the fear of awardness and shy? 2. I also want to know more about the ideas of transforming from a baby to an adult? Is he suggesting it is the sex that transformed them?
I think what Doctor Johnson says about metaphysical poems makes unnecessary allusion to display learning excessively seems to be true when we read The Good Morrow and To His Coy Mistress. But The Good Morrow is quite different from the nature of metaphysical poems which is to investigate the world through rational and witty discussion as you mention in the video. This poem is probably just a love poem dedicated to the woman he loves. In the second stanza, I think fear is referring to the uncertainty of their relationship. He is not certain whether the girl feels the same way as him even after this significant event that assures his love even more. And the reason of why the girl also looks at him with fear can be very different from him, not necessarily a mutual fear he sees in their relationship.
Ok,actually this poem is a part of UPSC English lit optional subject.I am aiming for UPSC-2018,and want to take Lit as my optional subject,but the problem is that the guidance regarding English Lit is not present much on internet/coaching etc.So i m just looking for people who chose lit as their optional. By the way thanks for replying and if you know any standard texts for reading critical reviews about various literary works please lemme know .
This poem is so unrestrained. We could know his poem is divided into three sections. And he talks about different points in time with different feeling. First section talks about before they met. He uses “were we not wean'd till then? But suck'd on country pleasures, childishly” to express he thinks they just like a child, they actually don’t know what is love, they just follow their “animal” satisfaction, and he uses “suck'd on country pleasures, childishly? Or snorted we in the Seven Sleepers' den?” to express he thinks their life is boring and dull. Even the pleasures are also fancies. second section talks about when they met. He uses “and now good-morrow to our waking souls.” to be the first sentence, I think it is so clever. He wants to say before they met their souls were sleeping, but because they met, they are wakeup, and because they falling in love, they are out of the life of boring and dull. and third section talks about after they met. He thinks love is some kind of balance, they could see each other, feel each other, touch each other, everything is perfect. He thinks their love could break through the shackles of death.
I personally agree with what Dr. Johnson's critic about metaphysical poets. I cannot deny that John Donne's poem 'The Good Morrow' is a fully beautiful poem for his lover, but I think it is pretty much different with other poems that I have seen and it's different even with Andrew Marvel one. It was hard to guess if the poem was a true love poem or satire when I first read 'To His Coy Mistress', but at least I didn't have any feelings like it's a list or showing what they learned. However, in this poem, I had a strong feeling that the poem is written in a way like "showing what they learned was their whole endeavor". Of course the theme or what the persona in the poem is addressing to his lover is lovely and sweet, but it's just that how the poem writes the poem is just too much. I'm pretty sure that there are more appropriate or elaborate words rather than using 'seaven sleepers den', 'sea-discovers', 'hemispheres without sharp North, without declining West', and 'whatever dyes, was not mixt equally'. Because of the usage of other normal metaphors or words that can easily be understood, the poem doesn't look like putting too much intellectual things as what Dr. Johnson said in his critic, but compared to other poems (even if the poem was written by other metaphysical poets or not), it doesn't really give me a true-and-sincere-love-poem impression. Because of this reason, when I first read this poem, I felt like it is a poem that praises the beauty of knowledge or intellect by personifying 'knowledge' as 'you' or the girl that the poem is addressed to.
Probable questions would depend on the age and abilities of the person being questioned of course, but this video would certainly be helpful to someone answering questions like "Analyze the way the speaker of 'The Good Morrow' views the concept of love?" or "Look at the way love is portrayed in 'The Good Morrow,'" or even one I saw recently which was "How far can 'The Good Morrow' and 'To His Coy Mistress' be said to be as much about control as about love?" Another, simpler question might perhaps be "How does the speaker of 'The Good Morrow' think his new love different from what has gone before?" Hope that helps.
1 Look at the address Donne makes to the girl in The Good Morrow. How impressed/convinced are you by the sincerity of his arguments? Present these as Unconvinced and the Convinced. “Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. As this is a love poem, Donne is addresses his newfound and undying love for her. However, there are some hints in his arguments that seem to point towards his potential deceive. Firstly, it is difficult for us to trust his words as we realize that he has had sex with multiple women in the past. It is becaaue because Christinity was wide spread when the poem was written, and frankly the Bible condemned sex before marriage to remain faithful to the future spouse. We can feel that Donne was did not adherd to the norms and was also a immoral man. This takes away his credibility as a man and makes it harder to trust him. Furthermore, it gets worse when he aruges that the reason why he slept with so many women was to search for his true love. He says that he was dreaming for her beauty when he was with the other women. From this sentiment, It could be assumed that he was looking for a more beautiful women one after another as he slept with them. it wouldn’t be surprise if he choose to leave the woman in the poem for another more beautiful woman. Besides, the poem do not list out the qualities about the women that “Donne” fall head over heels for her. As, Donne fails to point out his lovers qualities, his confession sounds sallow and superficial. Furthermore, it is evident from his prior history that he loves sex. As the poem does not state what specifically happened between them the previous night, it might be possible that Donne fell for her because “she was good in bed”. A true love that Donne seems to address in the poem takes time to cultivate, but Donne wrote his poem the next morning. He might just be feeling impusives because of the things that aspired last night, it might be too early to call it a love that Donne argues to be. Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.
It is interesting to notice the fact that we do not know if the lady that Donne had slept with really felt the same way as Donne did. Donne wrote this poem in a way as if that was the perfect relationship for both of them. But actually Donne did not really show the attitude of the lady towards this relationship in the poem. It is written as "And now good morrow to "our" waking souls" in the poem, obviously we know that Donne's soul is awakened, but it is hard for us to see how the soul of the lady wakes the same way Donne does.
Pak Lam LEE a poet writes what he knows & feels, you are talking about modern ideas, your feelings about this poem are based on more recent thinking. No one writes a shared poem, that is a parlour game where each person might write a random line! Donne has not written it the way you would like it ! The mystery is all important. We need mysteries & myths in life. Each one of us.
The line,"But suck'd on country pleasures, childishly?". Could this be seen as living, or making the most-enthusiastically(the way a child may suckle), of countryside nature, happenings, fun and games with friends etc? "Pleasures", may be construed as sarcasm to what seemed great then, but, not much now compared to his time with his lover; and "childishly", being innocent not knowing any better then?
"If ever any beauty I did see, Which I desired, and got, 'twas but a dream of thee" And with one bound he's free - of all those questions she might have about his exes :-)
I dunno. I can help thinking that if you look of what he's really saying there, we've surely all met plenty of women who'd be a bit harder to please than that, and plenty who'd be offended by the presumption that this quote would work. It could work of course, so might be worth mentioning under duress.
I think the persona of the poem is so confident in his love to his lover. However, the spiritual love he claimed between their relationship was just described from the person's perspective. There is a possibility that his lover may not be thinking like this. It means that they may not be as perfect as the persona thought. The fact of them being together may not make their whole world. Moreover, I think perfect love should be balanced in these three requirements: passion, intimacy and commitment. The spiritual love of the poem has fulfilled intimacy and commitment, as the poem emphasises what matter is their love within their soul. However, passion is also important in their relationship. I think passion involves the strong emotion acting on each other, including joy, anger or sex drive. The poem has overwhelmingly emphasises on the intimacy part of their love, seemed to me neglecting the importance of passion. At the first stanza, Donne talks about having sex when they were young. The after part of the poem suggests that their love in soul can overcome the passion. This imbalance structure of love that suggested by Donne is too perfect that it is so hard for people to practice. Therefore, I feel doubtful whether the theme of it is to promote this spiritual love or to suggest that this kind of perfect love would not exist in the world.
I agree with Dr. Johnson: Tho the reader sometimes admires, is seldom pleased. But I do like Donne's "To His Lover Upon Going To Bed." A much better poem all around. Less contrived, less strained, less overworked. And never was poetic porn so much fun! No poet's works are all equally meritorious, and this "morning after" reverie is muddled.
This was a knowledgeable synopsis; however not playing into Donne’s rampant sexual innuendos enough. “Without sharp north, without declining west” evokes an erect penis, and “whatever dies was not mixed equally...[if our love and love making is truly this amazing] none do slacken” is in direct, albeit paralleled, reference to an election as well. Just food for thought!
When you say this lecture "does not play into Donne's rampant sexual innuendos enough", you may be surprised to hear that I absolutely agree with you. At the time I made this lecture I was rather against what I saw as a somewhat childish attempt to read easy quasi-Freudian sexual imagery into poetry, and deliberately ignored it here. I now think this was a mistake on my part. I think a better way to address the sexual imagery in "The Good-Morrow" would be to present every instance the poem gives us of something that could be presented that way, and these are legion, and then let the reader decide which ones are intended, which ones work, and which ones are over-analysis in a Monty Python "nudge nudge, wink wink," sort of way, if that reference still has any meaning. That would have been far more informative, and interesting than ignoring them completely as I do here and you rightly point out.
mycroftlectures nice! That makes me happy to hear, as this poem is one of my favorites due to the beauty of its romance AND the fact that he could absolutely be talking about how great their sex was in spite of/or also because of the matters of the heart. I just think that added element makes it one of the best poems of all time. I had it read at my wedding, actually, for the double entendre reasoning. Haha, I loved that it was so romantic; however my husband and I had this great inside joke in front of all these people.
This chap's definition of the term "by my troth" is quite singular and not quite to the point. Also, he calls Donne "post-Shakespeare". Since the Bard died in 1616 and Donne in 1631 the latter can hardly be called post-Shakespearian. Further, since this poem belongs to Donne's earlier poems, when he was "Jack Donne" (born in 1572), neither can we hardly be said to be in "Post-Shakespearian times", as Mr Barker puts it. Another point in line 3 is that the subject of "sucked" is the word "we" from "we were weaned", thus implying that they both "sucked on country (= cunt) pleasures". It is indeed a crass statement to say that she is lesbian on the odd occasion.
Ng Sheung Huen, Barron “Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing, it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” As in who in the world could have known how many women Donne had sex with and said those appraisal words? These words and confesses have little to no weight as there is no mention of any specific features the lady possesses. What he saw in her makes her necessarily unique to us is unknown. This poem could very well be deemed as just words play to maintain this amusing sexual relationship they had, as in sex partner relation, as if like sincerely playing like he is more involved than he actually is in the interest of getting romantic attention and scratching the sex bits. We have no way of knowing how he truly feels or his intention behind all this. Especially judging from nowadays, he can simply say all of these appraisals, fooled a girl, get laid, and we would be no surprised at all. One thing he mentioned in the end, how he compared their love to the eternality of things is just too big of a boast for a relationship, how could he know he wouldn't meet another woman that is more beautiful, more appealing, that would dawn on him that make another "good-morrow to our waking souls"? To most, this poem Donne wrote is undeniably beautiful, yes indeed, but it also seems just like the raw impulse he wrote after that wonderful sex he had (to him) the previous night with that lady. “Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Because Donne addresses his appraisal towards this beloved whom he was with, compared with all relationships he once had as if insignificant, essentially magnifying how special and unique his feelings towards this lady are, like finally finding the true beauty of his life, at least at that particular moment. This very poem shows how much impact this relationship has brought him. That he describes in terms that took his love to a spiritual level that transcends his own affection, they conform to a unity in their own world, achieving oneness among these lovers. It's a bold and direct confess how no one could separate them apart and how he holds his affection and treasure his beloved.
Chick Karen Tsz Yu “Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” The Good Morrow represents the celebration of love, which depicts an awakening of the soul, and how love correlates with religion. In the first stanza, he commences with three rhetorical questions as regards their state of lives before getting involved together, as shown "by my troth". Metaphorically, he does not believe that both as truly adults can separate from their mother's milk until they meet with each other. In other words, the pleasures they enjoyed are viewed as innocent and childish that they were like babies who are not even weaned. Moreover, in reference to a story of seven children being buried alive by a Roman emperor, the long entombment can be found almost 200 years later, which infers his great tendency of preserving the time spent with his lover. In addition, in stanza three, he argues that they should stay in bed and gaze into each other's eyes rather than traveling to foreign countries, indicating that relinquishing the outside world is not a sacrifice to him. “Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Donne does not specify the nature of their love, yet he puts an emphasis on the perfection of their love, such as how they complement each other. His manner is quite unctuous, that he seduces and has sex with all the other women that he has known, and too impetuous to claim that his current lover is the most beautiful and perfect one in comparison to every woman he has ever slept with. From the final three lines of the stanza, it is peculiar and nonsense what he has mentioned before falling in love with his current lover, anything he experienced and any pleasure he has is not authentic. I feel doubtful how he can ensure that his current lover is the one he loves most, though he does not know how much the girl shows affection to him. He simply believes their emotion and physical states are interrelated so deeply, known as a perfect balance of love owing to the presence of the other.
Kam Chak Fai, Jack “Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” From the start of the poem, we can see that something happened recently that changed the relationship between Donne and the woman he’s addressing, at least Donne thought so because there’s no way he would know what the woman was thinking. This unknown incident had enabled him to see the world in a new light, to turn him into an adult with a higher level of maturity, that the “country pleasures” were merely a thing of the past (possibly conveyed by the word childish, as he outgrew it), Donne never specified what kind of event or what’s so unique in this woman that made his love transcended the realm of mere pleasures, this makes his addresses less convincing. As a biographical writing, we don’t know if his lover also had the same epiphany as him, which is why this poem exists to pitch his love toward his lover. Another thing to note is that he seduced many women in the past and tried to play it off as “preparation” for the beauty of the woman and that they were just fancies, which for all we know, he could’ve said the stuff he wrote in the poem to every lover he had, who’s to say that he would continue to love the woman he’s addressing? He might have just said those things in the heat of the moment. Such uncertainties may have undermined the perceived sincerity of the arguments he’s making here, and to us, it may sound a little bit too overbearing and way too flattering. “Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Because the first stanza of the poem is plainly about Donne actually having an epiphany and realising how great his love for the woman in question was, and that the beauties of every other girl that he fancied were merely reflections of her, we’ll have to take his words for it. As seen from the later stanzas where he claimed that a small room with the woman was already enough, this alone doesn’t seem quite sincere, unless we consider the fact that this poem was written in a time period where sea voyage and land discoveries were insanely popular and exciting, yet Donne didn’t care for any of that, he merely wished to stay with the woman he’s pitching his love to, as he considered her as the only world there is, a dedication to their relationship devoid of any external forces, and that is a bold claim, yet sincere as it’s different from the typical love poems written in that time period (saying he’s willing to abandon everything for her). In the final stanza, he also compared the love between him and the woman (their eyes) to the earth, saying it’s greater than the world itself. Reading this out loud in the present sounds pretty cliche, yet in the past it should sound sincere and flattering enough. In the final 3 lines, alluding to the old science of humour where one would not die if things are balanced, if they had equal affection for each other, they would never die because love would hold them together forever and ever. This indicates the intensity of his dedication, passion and loyalty to the woman he was addressing this poem to, because after all, for someone who’s seduced many women, he’s saying that he would never look the someone else’s way from his current lover, hinting at his realisation of genuine love and maturity, leaving all that “country pleasure” and childishness behind, when we interpret it as Donne growing out of those childish pleasures and truly saw something unique in the woman while disregarding the concerns, then the poem sounds sincere and convincing to us.
Lai Yuen Lam Thuy Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne's relationship to the woman he addresses. Donne's tone in the poem reflects his genuine feelings towards the woman he depicts. In the very beginning of the poem, the line “I wonder, by my troth, what thou and I / Did, till we loved?" conveys a deep sense of wonder and gratitude for the relationship between Donne and the woman and how it has changed his life. Additionally, the language he used to describe their love, such as "an everywhere" and "controules," suggests a level of intensity and passion that is difficult to fake. Donne interprets his passion of love to the woman in a distinctive and imaginative way. He portrays love as a transcending and spiritual experience, a form of love that lifts the lovers to a new extent of understanding and oneness. He stresses the intensity and all-encompassing nature of his love, using vivid imagery to describe how the love he perceived in his reality has controlled his entire world and given his life a new meaning. Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. Because Donne does not focus on the authenticity of their love, but he sheds light on the fantasy of the love and the sexual relationship he and the woman maintain. The love is not pragmatic and realistic at all. It seems that there is nothing interesting than sex between the woman and him. He unrealistically magnifies the love to the point where the woman he is seeing is perfect and unique out of all the women he has slept with and met. Until this point, I cannot help but questioning his love to the woman is merely an infatuation. The exaggerative languages employed does not convey his root intention of the relationship and his genuine feelings as well. Everything he holds to be true in this relationship is barely his dreamy version of the love he yearns for.
SUN Yuxin, Jenny “Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” Since the poem lacks a factual basis and seems to be the product of impulse after a night of passion. Donne only mentions how their love is perfectly matched and compatible, and the enlightening and life-changing impacts on him after spending a night with the girl. However, he does not specify what causes their relationship to go beyond the superficial and childish “country pleasures” to become more sophisticated and profound, such as the virtues or moral qualities of the girl. The use of romantic metaphors makes the poem sounds slightly exaggerated and unrealistic. Donne’s sweet and flattering language seems to be used to win the girl’s faithful love, and his words could also be used to attract other girls when the addressing girl loses her strong attraction. This inevitably makes readers wonder whether his love is driven by lust or inner pleasure. The poetic language is undoubtedly exquisite, but the sincerity and sustainability of Donne’s love for the girl are somewhat questionable. “Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Donne uses weaning and the story of the “seven sleepers’ den” as metaphors for his past love with the girl, and shows how he experiences spiritual awakening from a childish love to a mature one, and his determination to achieve a balanced, faithful, and immortal love with the girl. This represents Donne’s serious reflection on the development of this relationship, which has gone beyond the level of physical attraction to spiritual pleasure after a night. He also indicates that other women he previously seduce are only preparations for this girl, and only she allows him to achieve true love and growth, emphasizing the uniqueness and significance of his beloved. Moreover, love “makes one little room an everywhere” shows that only a small room is perfect enough to be Donne’s whole world because of the presence of the addressing girl, who is the only one who can build the complete world for him, and the outside world means nothing to him compared to this girl. This reflects their close connection of “we two are one”, as well as Donne’s deep obsession and crazy love for the addressing girl, and his willingness to abandon everything in the outer world for her, showing his devotion and loyalty. In the final stanza, Donne states that even the “hemispheres” of the whole planet cannot compare to each others’ eyes, emphasizing that their love is powerful, charming, and unparalleled. Although the poem sounds slightly impulsive, there is no doubt that Donne’s feelings for the girl are sincere, intense, and affectionate.
Tan Kai Teck Desmond (4198776) How do you rate The Good Morrow as a Love Poem in 2020? As the following tries to place John Donne’s ultimate love poem into contemporary times, it will reveal that it is inadequate. Donne speaks of waking up to a morning with an awesome girlfriend whom probably gave him the best sex of his life the night before. The first stanza alludes to their sexual experience with a vaginal pun, as well as the event of them meeting that eventually changes their ways of life with the reference to the biblical Seven Sleepers’ Den. This seems to suggest an instance of “love at first sight” (After meeting one another, they wake in a new world where all of Donne’s exes were nothing but passing fancies). Though it will be unwise to deny the premise of such a phenomenon, one ought to doubt the chances of one that results in a lasting relationship in modern times as there are many things that entails with love. We shall explore more on that below. The second stanza confirms Donne’s loyalty (For now) to his newfound love and he compares their love as worlds. The video makes a good point in suggesting that this is a more elegant way of saying “You mean the world to me.”. Perhaps this stanza can also be summarized by the concept of wherever Donne’s girlfriend goes, Donne will be there because nothing else matters as she means the world to him. In 2020, the pandemic has proven that such promise is often vain. Studies have shown divorce rates spiking across China and the States as lockdowns and social distancing guidelines are being enforced. This is due to the lockdown increasing the amount of time couples are spending with each other in the house. Before this, couples spend most of their time in separate offices, only seeing each other for maybe 4-6 hours before rest. But now, couples literally spend every waking moment seeing only each other (and their kids). Discontents with each other’s way of life (E.g. Unwillingness to do chores, poor sex, temper management etc.) eventually drives people apart. To quote Trevor Noah: “…quarantine is showing a lot of couples that they might love each other, but they don’t like each other.” The third stanza summarizes his feelings for her by emphasizing on the “oneness connection” they share in each other’s eyes and that as long as they forever love each other without fail, they will be everlasting. Disregarding the outrageous medical fallacy of the 5th verse, the poet appears to suggest that they will stay this way in love as long as their intense feeling on both parts do not change. This, as the above explained, maybe difficult to maintain in modern context, a world where there are so many temptations, so many opportunities. Though one must agree that the metaphors employed are so beautiful that they shall last eternal, the discussed elements that constitutes a healthy relationship, however, does not. The world has changed, technology and unique circumstances have redefined what it means to love or be love. While the 16-17th century world may think of love as something as simple as sharing an intense emotional feeling for one another (Or amazing sex), the modern world thinks of love in terms of durability, loyalty and commitment on both parties. Here I would like to take a page out of the philosophical comedy, Rick and Morty. One of the episodes pokes fun at dating apps such as Tinder, in which it explores the detrimental effects of a horribly efficient dating app. In Donne’s pre-internet time, humans do not have much choice, so it becomes essential, and easier as well, to treasure that one relationship one will probably have for the rest of his/her life. However, technology and dating-apps provide people with so many choices that there is simply no incentive to maintain a relationship anymore. If this does not work out, quit and try another! There is always someone for you out there! In addition, while it might be acceptable then for Donne to assume what his partner feels, it is not so now. Love must be constructed by both parties, both must be held responsible and there ought not be any misunderstandings, especially in regard to how one feels. If it is to be modified for the modern age, there should at least be one stanza talking about how Donne shall accept their differences in character, living style as well as the flaws that come along and that he too shall work hard in achieving harmony with her. At face value, this is a timeless love poem, but it would be impractical for the modern world, especially in the Age of COVID.
Lam Wai Sum, Phronesis (4074243) “How do you rate The Good Morrow as a Love Poem in 2020?” Just as the lecture has pointed out, the ideas that Donne came up upon in The Good Morrow is of new and cutting edge for his time, probably not much of a cliche to people in the 17th century, but to fit this poem into contemporary situation, I inevitably doubt this. Somethings happening or being mentioned in the poem just doesn’t seem appropriate to be put in 2020. The Good Morrow written in the 1970s would be a romantic poem of love, intimacy, possessiveness etc, we can get this mood immediately just in the beginning of the poem, that Donne depicts how sweet and romantic it is to wake up with his lover, after presumably, a night of wonderful sex experience for he plays with the sound of ‘country’ to ‘cunt’. The first scene of the couple I came across in my brain when I read upon these lines, on the behalf as a person living in the year 2020, is related to only ‘one-night stand’ or a relationship that base on sex more than spiritually love, which is very common in nowadays. If the situation happened in the poem came true now, I doubt if the lover saying this line to show his affection is of ‘true-hearted’ or just a cliche. For when I continue to read on, ‘if ever any beauty I did see, Which I desired, and got, ‘twas but a dream of thee’ associates me to a modern saying that Donne (the lover who says this) is committing in ‘boyfriend suicide attempts’-meaning that he is saying something he thought it’s sweet but would actually piss off his lover. It doesn’t seem morally appropriate to account to his lover of how many women he had slept with before in modern context, but I guess it is not unusual to say this, or to ‘desire and got’ ‘any beauty’ back in the days. Considering the eternality of things that Donne has mentioned in the poem, I do not think it is as easy for the couples in 2020 as to do what he has said to ‘possess one world, each hath one, and is one’. This is the world full of temptations, opportunities, entertainments that it is not realistic to leave the rapidly developing world behind to just gaze into each other’s eyes to attain and maintain love in a relationship. Love isn’t merely about having feelings and intimacy towards each other, but rather of loyalty, commitments, responsibilities, efforts and a whole lot of stuffs to be consider and to balance the relation properly. In fact, with all chaotic issues related to political and health now, it is difficult but still true and significant, and will always be for two lovers to ‘be one’, to adopt each other’s opinion, to tolerant and compromise.
Tsui Long Yin, Anna (4142272) How do you rate The Good Morrow as a Love Poem in 2020? The Good Morrow is one good love poem in the past for confession towards his lover. But is it in 2020? No wonder we have times like John that we being attracted by someone's beauty and have sex with them in the way of modern style; more often, in the Lan Kwai Fong. Yet it is a falling in love or just a one-night stand? The answer is quite simple and obvious, few if not none, could find an eternal true lover who is willing to have sex with you on the first day and promise you I will love you forever? It is more likely if you have such impressive sex skills, that will be asked to be his sex partner. I have a little assumption on where John said they were a child before the night referring to their playful heart and not wanting to settle down with a forever partner. I found that fascinating, how did someone enjoying their playful will and end up with a grown-up heart? Even in the modern way, guys and ladies experience things before they say oh I'm not a child anymore I wanna settle down with someone I'd love and after having sex doesn't even get a chance to getting someone to be mature overnight. Moreover, this love poem in 2020 will be a sweet talk and flattery, no one will take it that seriously, and probably the girl will wonder if he is asking her to be his forever, sexual partner. It's crystal-clear that modern people have complex thoughts on love. Love is more than sex, even more than love. A perfect example in Hong Kong, before a couple gets married, and says we are forever in love and be together, they have to own a house, gain the money, hold the weddings, etc... Even they have been through such obstacles, usually, problems still exist and destroy marriage in a lot of cases, like having an affair. In the past, it's hard to say you can meet more and more awesome people. In 2020, with such convenience traffic and social media, it is that easy to say you are the best woman I could meet and swear that you wouldn't have a slight change in heart? Moreover, I would say sex is nothing bad, but a relationship build on that I wouldn't imagine it to be forever and true love, if it is, that's a one in the million cases I would say.
Chang Cheuk Lam Cherry 4117708 How do you rate The Good Morrow by John Donne as a love poem in 2020? As the poem starts, the speaker, Donne, tells his beloved before they met each other what they had done was all childish play after being woken up together from the night spent together. He compares their true love with the past pleasures and finds all the past pleasures as fancies. He, moreover, asserts that he had only dreamt of the true beauty, that is, his beloved whom he has got now. A glorious greeting to their soul opens the second stanza. They are now “awakened” in the true world of love and they do not have to be fearful and jealous in terms of losing each other. Here, the speaker and his beloved have moved to the spiritual world of love. They are now complete and other beauties of the materialistic world do not distract them. Their small room where they make love is the whole world for them now. He does not consider the new discoveries of the sea an important thing now because for him his beloved is the pure world of love and discoveries. In the third stanza, Donne praises the strong bond of love they share. He can see his image in her “eyeballs” and she is in his “eyeballs”. Their mutual love reflects their image so well that their hearts are clearly seen in their eyes. When the world is divided into hemispheres, their love is united and crosses all the boundaries of the physical world. At the end of the poem, the speaker applauses the immortality of their love. He claims that their bondage cannot be slackened, and their love cannot be “killed” as it is immortal and pure love. In my opinion, in 2020, this poem can enforce the message of “loyalty” and “sincerity” of one relationship. Being affected by the Coronavirus, it is much harder for couples to be as close as before as there may be curfews, or banned from doing activities in public like going to the cinema or karaoke etc. Many couples were forced to stay at their own home and the date would be through facetiming. Long distance relationships remain long distance and there’s little chance that they can meet anytime sooner. As a result, a lot of them could not stand not being together and ended up breaking up. This poem gave us deep thoughts on how we perceive relationships. Is it only for physical comfort or find a real “soulmate”? In recent decades, I’ve observed that many youngsters chose the first one; which resulted in a rocketing number of divorce. Nowadays, being loyal and responsible seems to be cliche to people. Having a lot of partners is their pursuit.
Chong Hoi Kwo 4084248 Before we conclude whether The Good Morrow is a Love Poem in 2020, let us first explore the possible readings of the poem. The poem begins with the poet’s absolute admiration of the beauty of the woman who gives him the best (sexual) “pleasure” (line 3) which is beyond comparison, “But this, all pleasures fancies bee” (line 4), suggesting the relationship between the poet and the mesmerising woman remains on surface. Yet, the connection between the poet and the young woman has deepened and become spiritual as the “soules” (line 8) are now “awaken”. The love amongst them is very strong and real that all they ever need is each other; the love for and of each other makes their “world” as shown by lines 11 and 14, “And makes one little roome, an every where” and “Let us possesse one world, each hath one, and is one”. Their love is further illustrated as “love is in the eye of the beholder” in lines 15-16 that when they look into each other’s eyes, their faces exude the “true plain hearts”. At this point, the poet seems to show great joy and happiness as his ‘dream comes true’ - being in love with the dream woman. Yet, the “If” (line 20) at the end of the poem may lead the reader to believe otherwise. Before we get to that, let us look at the psyche of the poet. The first stanza can be understood as the poet is being engulfed by the perfect woman. However, there are concerns that come with this fancy of the woman, which, mercifully, is resolved in the second stanza as they both have their “waking soules” (line 8) in the “good morrow” (line 8). Thus, this stanza is the ‘relief’ of the poet. Yet, erratically, the poet’s “feare” (line 9) appears again as he says “If” (line 20). If both the poet and the woman have the “true plaine hearts” (line 15), why would the poet reveal a sense of uncertainty here? Assuming the poet has a determined affection of the woman, we may not be certain about the woman’s, hence, their love may not be “equal” (line 19), whereby, consciously or subconscious, the poet has insecurity in him, and the “feare” may be the unbalanced love. At this stage, the poet seems to be the ‘giving’ one who has ultimate love for the woman. Nevertheless, what is “love” to the poet? Throughout the poem, the “love” centralises on “beauty” and physical intimacy (“countrey pleasure”, line 3). If his “love” for the woman is beyond the physical love, one may expect to see the other attributes (or the inner self) of the woman such as possessing a caring and good-natured heart, which, however, cannot be found here. This may be why it is “OUR waking soules” - stanza 2 and 3 is the want of the poet; he fancies the ‘happy ending’ with the woman. Whether it is ‘lust’ or ‘love’ that the poet has matters profoundly in determining it a “Love Poem” in 2020. To conclude, there is not a clear answer to this question. This response attempts to look at the issue of “love” in regard to the unique characteristics of the 21st century, where technology becomes the axis of our daily lives. It is an unspoken truth that oftentimes the initial intention of looking for a partner of spiritual connection becomes a ‘beauty contest’ where people ‘learn’ someone by appearance and ‘conditions’ (such as in consideration of wealth and occupation). Thus, the “swiping right” phenomenon represents “pleasure” that is taken from what you can see on the surface, just like the “pleasure” of the poet who takes from the physical beauty of the woman that he ‘loves’. Hence, this poem may appeal to those whose ‘love’ is ‘lust’ as a “Love Poem”, yet disagree by those who seek for true love, if we see it ‘lust’ that the poet has, in 2020. On the other hand, this “Love Poem” in the 17th century may debatably be a “Love Poem” in 2020 as ‘love’ is an intricate concept which can be interpreted differently, depending on whom one is asking, what kind of ‘love’ one is seeking, and how one finds ‘love’.
wow :) really helpful :) but you can sorten it up a bit :) sometimes you repeat the same simple lines snd things over and over again , which harms the attention of the listeners :(
Wong Mung Rory, 4072984 Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. Donne employs poetic devices as decoys to conceal his empty love to the addressee. his affection does not appear to transgress the boundary of lust. The nature of their relationship before the “good-morrow” is built upon sensual pleasure: It is her beauty and physicality that enticed him in the beginning. The blatant sexual wordplay further undermines the sincerity of his “love”. Donne’s attitude transforms abruptly in one particular morning without specifying any reason as if he himself is not certain about what to make of this woman. He continues his poem with ambiguous sweet-nothing, focusing on his romanticized rhetoric instead of qualities or virtues he sees in her. “The Good-Morrow” is decidedly remarkable, yet the love he attempts to transpire is not exactly compelling. Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. Donne’s love for the addressee might go well beyond reasoning or rationality. The chain of physiological reactions after nights of passion with her could trigger something inexplicable. Donne is merely verbalizing the feeling of having butterflies in his stomach. The passion he has for her might be transient, the sense of oneness he shares with her could possibly expires, and he just might desire another flesh any time soon: But who can judge his sincerity in that particular instant? He is in love with her in that moment and nothing else matters as long as they have one another.
Lifewriting Chan Ki Tung, Tony Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. One of which can be said to be “does John Donne know this woman well enough?” I raise this question because there are few if not none descriptions of the woman he addresses. John Donne mainly uses vague concepts to talk about her, like “hemispheres”, “plain hearts”. This is unlike William Shakespeare, who addresses Dark Lady very specifically. For instance, Shakespeare, in one of his sonnet, uses “tender inward of thy hand” to describe the woman he loves. This further adds to my doubt that “is this woman he addresses merely one among many?” In The Good Morrow, John Donne writes, “If ever any beauty I did see, Which I desired, and got, ’twas but a dream of thee”. This sentence presupposes that John Donne did desire and get girls in the past. But this is not the main point as he could get as many women as he wanted. The main point is that this type of sentence is almost like a formula. He can utter this go-to pick-up line to Lady A, Lady B, and Lady C without altering any of the wordings and he could probably still get the women. Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. John Donne is writing an aubade, which is usually “sung by a departing lover to a sleeping woman”. At the outset, John Donne seems to be boasting about his sensual and sexual relationship in the first stanza as evidenced by cunt-ry pleasures (a witty pun) and the allegory to the snorting community in the Seven Sleeper’s den. However, when it gets to the second stanza - “And now good-morrow to our waking souls” - John Donne becomes much sincerer to the woman’s point of view and is looking for a transcendental love. For example, Donne said: “For love, all love of other sights controls/ And makes one little room an everywhere”. He is almost blind to everything else except the one and only woman sleeping in front of him. Donne also acknowledges the woman’s independence and equality, where each of the lovers represents a halve. This implies that John Donne not just wants to have coitus, a physical act of union, but also wants to have a spiritual union, one that transcends the material world.
Lifewriting Demi Kong Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. First, Donne actively refuses to engage with the real world is somewhat absurd in a happy relationship. It is common and understandable when couples say they make each other’s world better as if the relationship is a boost to their lives. But seemingly, Donne desires to abandon the outer world as he says, “For love, all love of others controls / And makes one little room, an everywhere.” The room they are in is a microcosm, yet perfect enough for him to be his world. Also, the ignorance he expresses towards the discovery of the new continent, which is possibly the most important issue going on during that time, shows that he is overly drawn into the woman and it is not a healthy sign at all. Second, by ending the poem with the lines “If our two loves be one, or, thou and I / Love so alike, that none doe slacken, none can die,” it makes me question how thoroughly does Donne understand the notion of love or a love relationship. There is absolutely no way to love each other equally in a relationship. People do not build a relationship based on the agreement of reciprocity either. It is destined that sometimes one will be more devoted. Therefore, the statement that Donne makes is not valid at all. Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. The implication of growth is a cogent argument to set out one's relationship. Donne uses the metaphor of weaning and the story of seven sleepers den to depict the growth of his woman and him. Growth carries a positive and progressive connotation. It indicates that the couple must have gone through something together to become two improved persons. It is an undeniably marvellous and desirable outcome of a relationship. Especially when Donne acknowledges that all the other women he has seen or even been with are only the preparation of this particular woman who is in bed with him right now. This suggests that Donne has been “growing” before he meets this woman and now he achieves his growth process.
Aison Clark Laborte, ENG-3385 Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. It feels like he is only exaggerating in his poem which also shows his weakness. The line “If ever any beauty I did see,/Which I desired, and got, ‘twas but a dream of thee” implies that perhaps he had been with other women as well. It is possible that he said something similar to each of the women that he had coitus with. It seems like he wants lust more than love with this woman. The line “And makes one little roome, an every where” gives more of a reason why the poet does not sound convincing because, not only that it is exaggerating, it is also not realistic. A woman with some sense would probably not be impressed with this line because no matter how in love the couples may be, everything outside that little room they are in totally matters, for example: financial problems, food, possible adultery that the man or the woman may commit etc. Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. He really believes that being with this woman can bring out the best of them with the first line of the second stanza “And now good morrow to our waking soules”. He implies that the passion that he had with this woman has awoken both of their soul and will give way to many more good tomorrows. The passionate interaction he had with the woman may be only for a short time but he may be experiencing the sensation of “love at first sight”. That sensation gives him the feeling in need to connect with the woman. He imparted this feeling in the second stanza when he said they are each other’s world. He further explains how strong this connection can be in the third stanza with “Where can we finde two better hemispheares” in which he may be trying to say that they are each half of the earth and when they are together, they will become one world. Using such metaphor may be exaggerating but there may not be a better way to describe that genuine connection he felt with her.
Chan Siu Yan Fiona 4167208 Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. In the poem, Donne provides every reason to convince the girl. He starts by referring to the story in Christianity, then to the concept and the structure of the world. It makes me question why he has to pay so much effort to gain her love. After one night, the girl has changed from an ordinary person to a goddess, who makes him grow and in love. Donne emotions seem to have changed too fast that by spending one night makes him to completely fell in love. Additionally, I think it is effortless for Donne to get a girl as he has a history of womanizing. The words he has used in this poem, he could also use to allure the other girls. Why would the girl believe she would be the only one for him? Possibly, he would have thousands of lovers outside there waiting for him, not to mention the asking for “if our two loves are one, or, thou and I love so alike”. Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. After the unusual night, he has grown from a childish man who only enjoys sexual pleasure, to an adult who would appreciate the spiritual pleasure. This is a life-changing experience for Donne that he is not ashamed of telling the girl the history of him womanizing. He is trying to persuade the girl with everything knowledge he has. I believe every person, especially women, loves hearing to compliment and love words, which Donne used the sweetest way to present his sincerity to the girl, saying “let us possesse one world, each hath one, and is one.” When they already own the world, is there anything they should be fearful of?
The problem with nomenclature is… there was no group of metaphysical poets… they were so named afterwards… and thus is a falsification… what the poet means with the poem we will never know, for he is not present… hence another falsification
I've found it to be very shallow! More of theatrics than actual content! Good for High School alright but, not fit to be given out as college lectures... I'm sorry but... this is what it felt like...
I have to disagree here. A paraphrase, by its very nature, simplifies. I've taught literature for over twenty years now, both at universities and as a private teacher, and it's clear that a lot of students simply don't or can't paraphrase a poem before they analyze its further intricacies. So often, students at high levels of academia can turn in papers on postmodern representation within . . . or the implications of the chronotope in . . . etc etc when they haven't actually understood the content of the poem they are doing the supposedly in depth analysis on. What they write is almost a template that can be cut to more or less fit any piece of art and it shows very little awareness of the specifics of the piece they are actually looking at. And I fear this is because all too often teachers skip showing students how to do the work of close analysis of a text to move onto that teacher's own area of interest as it relates to that text. Of course to those of us who already know the poem, the information in this video, and all the others, is very simple, but everything is simple when we already know it. I would contend that even at university level, it is a mistake to assume that all the students in the class know what this videos puts across. I may be wrong of course, but private tutoring is very useful for letting us know what other people DON'T know. I also always try to remember what I didn't know at that age. Which to be accurate wasn't very much at all.
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You did more than analyse the poem, you taught how to analyse a poem and that is something a lot of lectures have failed to do. I skipped class to watch your videos instead... Good man.
Nice but you should explain it on white board
Please chose the best way to describe it.
The hemispheres refer to two halves of a world making up one world..... It's also what was said earlier in the line: "each has one, and is one"... basically meaning that each of them in this relationship has a part (this 'part' they have and are willing to give to each other- is a reference to the heart they see through the eyes- the eyes are the window to the soul, in this case to the heart) of themselves to give to the other (in order to complete the other's life and thus their own)is one half of a wolrd (a hemisphere) and together make up one world.... It's as simple as that. The idea of the eye being a hemisphere also talks about how they see one another in each other's life, in each other's world. It's like acceptance and embracing the fact that they now belong together... hence they have no fear when they look into each other's eyes. Think of it in a manner of how-- to look one in the eyes is a matter of courage, confidence, even daringness. We usually use this line when talking about facing ones fears and staring fear or circumstance in the eyes. We also use it when we say things like- "He can't even look me in the eyes and talk." when we mean that the person is either deceitful, dishonest or even ashamed. Here however, they feel none of those negative things, and are able to honestly look one another in the eyes. Hence the opening line: "I wonder by my troth,..."
Also, whe talking about "soul" earlier, it isn't necessarily a religious connotation, at least not in the conventional sense. The word soul is merely a synonym for the word life. (People mistake spirit and soul to have the same meaning, when they clearly naver have been in any sense). Just as a person might say- "Not a soul was present there", indicating that a place was devoid of living presence, so also, by saying "goood morrow to our waking souls" it's as though they've been awakened into a new life. They have been sleeping. Remember what was said about sleep in Macbeth- that it is "death's counterfeit".... Many take death to mean an eternal slumber. So also, it's like they've awakened from a death-like sleep, like the life they lived before having met eachother wansn't really living, because they engaged in mere survival. In literature, there is a clear difference made between living and existing. Exisiting is what we all do, but living happens when we gain meaningfulness, passion, a reason to thrive rather than just survive. That's what Donne feels he has just gained with his beloved. They have awakened (almost resurrected) into a new life. Hence, everything before this was a mere dream, because they were asleep. Nothing was real, all just a dream. Nothing meant so much before.
And you're wrong about Donne being the first to say the whole "we two are one" staement. it was said by Jesus (1500 years prior to Donne) when he told his followers: "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one put assunder.” which he was basiccaly repeating what was said in Genesis 6000 years ago in Gen.2:24. Nothing new about it.
I like the connection you make in that first paragraph there, Franklin. Nicely done. Truth to look them in the eye. The Plato/ Jerry McGuire You complete me stuff. I don’t think I said Donne was the first to use the we two are one. I say it probably wasn’t as clichéd in his day as it may sound in ours. I think Plato’s got first dips on it in that perfect human being split in half and wanting to rejoined stuff. So he’s got it down in print before the Biblicals did. Great points again though. Many thanks.
@@mycroftlectures I like that you think Plato had it down first when Moses wrote the book of Genesis in the Pentateuch much earilier, in the 7th century BCE.
@@colonelalister Well, you'd have to be far far more religious than me to believe that. I hold no religious beliefs at all. Quite the contrary in fact. I'm not so much atheist as anti-theist. But that aside, the point is that today we may hear the 'two hearts as one' trope in an overused somewhat "greeting card" cliche'd way, as I certainly do, that quite possibly would not have been the same reaction as Donne's original audience had, no matter who we think first coined it.
@@mycroftlectures It has nothing to do with religion but purely historical and archaeological. Carbon dating & all that stuff... lol. Also, while the original coinage may not matter in terms of chronology, it's exciting to uncover where Donne might have got his inspiration from. Nonetheless, great explanation overall. Helped me a tonne. Thank you so much. Do keep making more of these.
Dear Andrew, thank you so much for your lecture and for the attention you pay to the learning styles of your public. I'll use your lessons in my own lessons with my students in Milan. Roberta
This is the best Poetry Lecture I have ever had. I 'll forget this poem nor you.
it's a pleasure to read poetry with you
thank you for such an easy and clarifing way to the poem
You're welcome.
You donne this lecture well Dr. Barker. I substitute my teaching with watching this video alongside my students!
Arrrrgh! I should have seen that one coming.
As always i sit back in my armchair late at night listening to every word, every now and then i look over to my ipad screen, the out of focus pages and the sharp well lit image of the lecturer and i feel giddy. Once again i wish the setting was in a small cosy library with an open fire 🔥
Humbly: He takes up the one world metaphor of the 2nd stanza with "Where can we find two better hemispheres / Without sharpe North, without declining West? Their "better hemispheres" are absent the bitter cold of the northern latitudes and without the strife and war found in the present west (Europe). Great video.
I read "plain hearts" like "made plain", meaning open and honest.
That works.
That's a great take on Donne's "The Good-Morrow". Thank you very much, my dear.
How I perceive this poem is that it seems to be a sweet and love poem addressed to a girl the speaker loves. In the first stanza, he might explain how they were probably young, childish, and obsessed with sex, not like they are now, truly in love with each other. He goes on saying in the second stanza that their relationship involves passion, sincerity, and souls with each other and they don’t need to be linked to the world since they have already formed their joint world or their bedroom is already become the whole world at that moment. And last he claims that each of them is a single hemisphere and they tries to combine with each other to build a whole world together with their love and passion. Since their love is well-balanced and in proportion, their true love thus will never weaken or die. Added, it is quite obviously that there is a shift from the physical relationship to the spiritual love. ‘But’ in the first stanza makes a contrast and claims that all the past physical activities seems to be meaningless. I think the poet might suggest that the ‘physical love’ might contains loads of uncertainties and each of them might be afraid of betrayal. However, uncertainty and fear does not work in the true love or ‘spiritual love’. Once each of them have already built the spiritual connection, they so-called true love can control the temptation of other things. They might considered to be the joint owner of their own world. If those two single hemispheres continue to combine together, they are not afraid of separation or break up of their relationship.
Well written.
Thank you sir for explaining the poem in such an elaborate way.
Thank you for the lecture. Very useful.
...Thanks for your response. It’s irresistable not to answer at least one of the (rhetorical?) questions. The first time I visited the National Portrait Gallery in 2007, the 1595 painting of the young lover had been bought six months earlier. I knew nothing about that and suddenly standing face to face with the portrait was like receiving a punch. I immediately recognized the face, not handsome but arresting, and was surprised by the overwhelming self-reliance of the attitude. As the quotable lines of the poems popped up from my memory I realized that I shouldn’t be surprised. Poems and portrait intertwined and completed each other. Evidently this should have been the portrait attached to The Good Morrow, but now I think I know why it isn’t: like me, you simply didn’t know it existed!...?...
It has been claimed that words are more revealing than the picture. Perhaps, but with Donne I see no rivalry only cooperation because both are deliberate. Donne ordered the paintings himself and they tell us how he wanted to be seen. A calculated self-invention! Prompted by self-preservation. He reflects on the power of pictures in “His Picture” and “Witchcraft by a Picture”, and he has a sense of quality. After Donne’s death the inventory showed that he kept a Mary Magdalen by Tizian in his bedroom.
The portrait of the older Donne that we see here, by the famous Isaac Oliver, shows him handsome and well groomed. Far too handsome: the characteristics of the face are tuned down. The devil has left. King James needed a pious man and this is the priest and poet of the Holy Sonnets, but still not a humble person. Doesn’t it matter that he i linked to the love poem? A meagre consolation may be found in the pessimistic view (a Donne-paradox) that many don’t look that close on a portrait. A wet blanket though.
I see that I can be accused of romanticizing. Quite ironic because I believe that Romanticism is the number one obstacle when it comes to understand old poetry. In order to de-romanticize - as an experiment - I try to set the poem as a dramatic monologue, inserting a narrator. It hurts but is there anything in the text to contradict it? Thus the silent girl is no longer a person you can pitch a poem to, and honestly I can’t see that Donne ever individualized her enough for that. At the same time the arrogance of the ‘we’ evaporates. The ultimate test to see If the poem is no longer blurred by an overlay of Romanticism would be to have a positive answer to the question: “ Is it possible to imagine John Donne reading this poem aloud to his circle of student friends?”
Please don’t be mistaken by my blunt Danish style. I sound like a teacher and it’s definitely the other way round. I have learned so much from you and I am so grateful. Donne (+1 other writer) was the only one to stay when I banned everything English. John Donne is an old friend and it was this Mycroft Lecture that made me decide to reopen the door to the English. I could not have wished for a better or more reliable guide.
Thank you for reading this far. I shall never write such a long comment again.
Interesting and informative analysis.
Thank you so so so very much... it was so much helpful. Great work.. and thank you again...
I'm not big fan of metaphysical poetry, but this lecture changed my mind about 'good morrow'. Also Dr. Andrew Barker is hot :)
Beautifully presented , clear and concise and treats the 'viewer/listener' in a very direct and open manner..I personally felt uplifted by your reading of John Donne as I am so often disappointed by readings that I have come across, usually rather pedantic and almost formulated and lacking in a dynamic..no matter how apparently the erudition of the speaker. So thank you..You bought Donne to life rather than kill his spark..
I love the way you explain, line by line, every poem. Congratulations from Barcelona!
can you help me with what does the speaker compare himself? please
Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you so much.
Very helpful explanation. Because of lockdown all educational institutes were closed, so students are the worst sufferers, lacking behind with their syllabus. Online classes were not enough for proper explanation, since it takes a lot of time and well internet connection. I myself being a student found it extremely helpful. Thank You
You're very welcome.
Very beautiful. Thank you for sharing this.
Hiya! your lectures help me a lot! Thank you and keep doing the good work mate!
:)
This is great. Thank you very much,
Thank you so much!
Thank you for making this poem accessible without losing it’s charm even inspiring further investigation: If I were less interested in portraits I would certainly be happy with the standard portrait we see here. That of the respected Doctor Donne. Dean and widower. But with this poem I would have preferred the portrait of the young lover the, the world is my oyster Jack Donne from 1595. There are plenty of interesting portraits on the internet. From the catholic teenager, sword in hand, to the dying Donne in his shroud, and by good artists. Self-promotion in style. . .As for the line “And true plain hearts.....” I found out that at the time, the map of the world was represented in the shape of a heart (cordiform). Thus the poem describes the mirroring heart of each lover, and plain means flat. This fits in with the poem. To call it a display of learning would be hateful. (There seems to be a tradition of hating Donne) after all Donne was interested in these things and “We find our inspiration where we might”. (Your sonnet 1). . . Regarding the IF in the final triplet, French has an if (si) of certainty as well as that of supposition. My one-volume OED does not give that option, but why should it not be possible in Renaissance English? It would marry the rhetoric. . . . .This is too long. If (?) I find this interesting it doesn’t give me the right to take other people’s time.
A fascinating reply that I've only just noticed and missed when you posted it. On the portraits point, and this is slightly tangential, as this is more than likely to be the first look people have had of Donne as the author of the poem don't you think his age in the picture matters? And the way he looks? I mean, it shouldn't . . . but don't you think it does? If the picture attached is of an old or ugly man, the poem appears more lecherous or maybe violent. If the attached picture is of a younger more handsome version of the same man we may be inclined to read it differently. And yet we all age and few of us do so for the better. The picture attached to the author should have no relevance to how we view what was written. And I fear that even on a subconscious level it undeniably does. Same with all pictures attached to authors of course, but when you have lifetimes worth of pictures to select from picking the wrong one could do a disservice to the poet and the poem. Unfortunate, but true.
Thanks for the great explanation.
Soooo great work bro thankyou sooo much
I think line four can also allude to the hazy state of smoking in an opium den ("snorting" and "den"), or simply being under the influence of a stimulant that creates only artificial and transient satisfaction and apparitions of beauty. This seems to accord with the idea of "dreaming," "fancies" and whims, but finally "waking" to each other.
Thank you so much your lecture was really helpful! well done👍
Great explanation
Thank you so much 😍🤗
Excellent lectures I love that
Thank you sir
Donne depicts his love his lover, not only in terms of platonic relationship but on a spiritual level. To him, the physical reunion between the two bodies is an important pathway towards the awakening of soul and spiritual love. Once lovers are united, oneself will be completed by the other. It is interesting that the poem contains some religious references including the soul, the Catholic story and mortality. If two love each other the same way can achieve morality, then what role would religion be or is it somehow diminished intentionally in the poem?
It's interesting to contrast this view wth Winnie's comment.
I really liked the analysis . The last part was like a twist of 'Game of thrones'. All the time , you think its spirit, in the end its just 'cant' be .
It was very good and informative. Thanks.
thank you sir i really appreciate your effort
Good analysis
I think his use of the word 'plain' isn't quite the same as our use today. I think he means without corruption or blemish.
Again, an insightful talk. A few suggestions: although it is tempting to import our rather limited, current usage of the word "plain" into this discussion, in Donne's time "plain" threw a much wider net of associations, including: unadorned (lacking artifice), full, complete, non-material, adult (as in "plain age"), and demonstrably alive (as in "plain life"). Mirrors were also a preoccupation of this period, and when Donne refers to two lovers looking into each others' eyes (as if into mirrors) the visual effect for the listener would have likely included this conjury: the curved, infinitude of worlds created by one mirror reflecting into the other, essentially multiplying the lovers' "little room" into everywhere and everything.
Thanks. Some good and useful points/additions. I particularly like the eye reflecting eye reflecting eye image, even if you'd have to have far better eyesight than my own to actually pull this off. Mind you, seeing myself in someone else's eyes would be a strain these days.
can you help with " to what does the speaker compare himself with?
Thank you for the lesson. Just a thought: the "sharp north" suggested to my the sharpness of cold, not the sharpness of a compass needle. This fits with the other idea of hemispheres "declining" in the west - our love does not decline or grow less. In the same way our love is not cold, like the north.
Thank alot sir .
Awesome explanation
Great explanation!
I used to study the poem when I was studying a drama called "W;t". I always thought that John Donne loves talking about Death or things about death like his poem, "Death, be not proud". This poetry is different. It's different from what I expect Donne to be like.
Throughout the whole poetry, the idea he tries to convey is "we" together can be the "world". I cannot determine whether it would be a radical idea on his era but I'm sure that it's constructed with fascination for love and the one he loves. In my opinion, cliche is something brilliant that too many people love to apply it then it turns out to be a common interpretation. I love the way that Donne portrayed "love". It's either "we are the world" or "us against the world" that makes "none can die".
A really romantic one, even that it contains some erotic images.
There's some interesting stuff on cliche that comes up in the Larkin poems. "Cold as snow."
Awesome lecture and Andrew thanks a lot for this lecture. There is another such a lecture in Cloud School in bangla language.
Thank u..loved ur lecture!:-)
You’re a great teacher 👍 keep it up 👍
I was once doing an essay about this poem, and my first assumption was that they were in love with each other already, and the image that I pictured in my head was the couple sleeping next to each other as usual. I didn't think about your interpretation that the two of them actually just met and made out for the first time. The whole thing seems more explainable under your interpretation than the my assumption.
Also, someone told me that in some wedding ceremony, this poem would be read aloud as a celebration but she doesn't feel appropriate because of the uncertainty at last. Although the poem is mainly about how excessively a man loves his lover, the last stanza expresses some uncertainty. 'If' is used and there are still 'two love' at that stage, that means the woman probably still hasn't responded yet. But in my opinion, the uncertainty could be used very explicitly during wedding. A wedding is exactly the situation for the bride and the groom to respond to each other's love.
Line three - IMO he's talking about what they did with others BEFORE they met - fun affairs and adventures without real emotional impact, NOT what they did together last night. I'd also take that he's treating her as an equal in this regard - that she too has had fun experiences in the past, and he respects that. Possible links to Confined Love?
thank u so much
By studying this poem with "To His Coy Mistress", we can see the difference between the metaphysical poet like Andrew Marvell. As both poems were about "sex" in a way, their ideas and how they presented the ideas of love were quite different. In "To His Coy Mistress", Andrew Marvell used a lot of similies that were not real and making sense which Shakespeare critized and told his fellows poets to avoid in "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun". However, the similies used in this poem were concrete examples like sea voyages and eye, which was quite different from Marvell's similies.
The way I see this poem is that it looks like a very sweet poem to the girl he just spent a night with that we can see him complimentig the girl which I really like the line ""If ever any beauty I did see, which I desire and got, t'was but a dream of thee.". It may have sounded wrong as you have mentioned the two possible meanings of this sentence but for me, it is the meaning that he complimented all the beautiful things he had seen was just a dream of this girl.
However, as you have mentioned that the love feelings might not be mutual, the "if" in "if our two loves be one" in the third stanza in the poem really caought my eye. It sounded like he was making up for the bad time/sex last night. If you love me in the same way I love you, then you might not die. I do not know if it is wrong or not. But for me, it sounded like he was scared that she might not love him so he would say this in order to calm himselfof the fear of losing her, maybe?
1. I wanted to know more about the "feare" in the second stanza. Is it a fear of losing her once they had sex? Or the fear of awardness and shy?
2. I also want to know more about the ideas of transforming from a baby to an adult? Is he suggesting it is the sex that transformed them?
I think what Doctor Johnson says about metaphysical poems makes unnecessary allusion to display learning excessively seems to be true when we read The Good Morrow and To His Coy Mistress. But The Good Morrow is quite different from the nature of metaphysical poems which is to investigate the world through rational and witty discussion as you mention in the video. This poem is probably just a love poem dedicated to the woman he loves.
In the second stanza, I think fear is referring to the uncertainty of their relationship. He is not certain whether the girl feels the same way as him even after this significant event that assures his love even more. And the reason of why the girl also looks at him with fear can be very different from him, not necessarily a mutual fear he sees in their relationship.
well described.... :)
Are you preparing for exam,UPSC exam to be specific?
no why?
Ok,actually this poem is a part of UPSC English lit optional subject.I am aiming for UPSC-2018,and want to take Lit as my optional subject,but the problem is that the guidance regarding English Lit is not present much on internet/coaching etc.So i m just looking for people who chose lit as their optional.
By the way thanks for replying and if you know any standard texts for reading critical reviews about various literary works please lemme know .
yaa sure
Ravi Kumar i have also decided to take english lit as optional for CSE 2018.
This poem is so unrestrained.
We could know his poem is divided into three sections. And he talks about different points in time with different feeling.
First section talks about before they met. He uses “were we not wean'd till then? But suck'd on country pleasures, childishly” to express he thinks they just like a child, they actually don’t know what is love, they just follow their “animal” satisfaction, and he uses “suck'd on country pleasures, childishly? Or snorted we in the Seven Sleepers' den?” to express he thinks their life is boring and dull. Even the pleasures are also fancies.
second section talks about when they met. He uses “and now good-morrow to our waking souls.” to be the first sentence, I think it is so clever. He wants to say before they met their souls were sleeping, but because they met, they are wakeup, and because they falling in love, they are out of the life of boring and dull.
and third section talks about after they met. He thinks love is some kind of balance, they could see each other, feel each other, touch each other, everything is perfect. He thinks their love could break through the shackles of death.
Much better, Chester.
I personally agree with what Dr. Johnson's critic about metaphysical poets. I cannot deny that John Donne's poem 'The Good Morrow' is a fully beautiful poem for his lover, but I think it is pretty much different with other poems that I have seen and it's different even with Andrew Marvel one. It was hard to guess if the poem was a true love poem or satire when I first read 'To His Coy Mistress', but at least I didn't have any feelings like it's a list or showing what they learned. However, in this poem, I had a strong feeling that the poem is written in a way like "showing what they learned was their whole endeavor". Of course the theme or what the persona in the poem is addressing to his lover is lovely and sweet, but it's just that how the poem writes the poem is just too much. I'm pretty sure that there are more appropriate or elaborate words rather than using 'seaven sleepers den', 'sea-discovers', 'hemispheres without sharp North, without declining West', and 'whatever dyes, was not mixt equally'. Because of the usage of other normal metaphors or words that can easily be understood, the poem doesn't look like putting too much intellectual things as what Dr. Johnson said in his critic, but compared to other poems (even if the poem was written by other metaphysical poets or not), it doesn't really give me a true-and-sincere-love-poem impression. Because of this reason, when I first read this poem, I felt like it is a poem that praises the beauty of knowledge or intellect by personifying 'knowledge' as 'you' or the girl that the poem is addressed to.
I take true plain hearts to mean two clear hearts; not dissembling perhaps...or maybe straight, no chaser; but I feels ya.
thank you sir, may you say what will be the suggestive questions from this poem?
Probable questions would depend on the age and abilities of the person being questioned of course, but this video would certainly be helpful to someone answering questions like "Analyze the way the speaker of 'The Good Morrow' views the concept of love?" or "Look at the way love is portrayed in 'The Good Morrow,'" or even one I saw recently which was "How far can 'The Good Morrow' and 'To His Coy Mistress' be said to be as much about control as about love?" Another, simpler question might perhaps be "How does the speaker of 'The Good Morrow' think his new love different from what has gone before?" Hope that helps.
thank you.
very well
1 Look at the address Donne makes to the girl in The Good Morrow. How impressed/convinced are you by the sincerity of his arguments? Present these as Unconvinced and the Convinced.
“Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. As this is a love poem, Donne is addresses his newfound and undying love for her. However, there are some hints in his arguments that seem to point towards his potential deceive. Firstly, it is difficult for us to trust his words as we realize that he has had sex with multiple women in the past. It is becaaue because Christinity was wide spread when the poem was written, and frankly the Bible condemned sex before marriage to remain faithful to the future spouse. We can feel that Donne was did not adherd to the norms and was also a immoral man. This takes away his credibility as a man and makes it harder to trust him. Furthermore, it gets worse when he aruges that the reason why he slept with so many women was to search for his true love. He says that he was dreaming for her beauty when he was with the other women. From this sentiment, It could be assumed that he was looking for a more beautiful women one after another as he slept with them. it wouldn’t be surprise if he choose to leave the woman in the poem for another more beautiful woman. Besides, the poem do not list out the qualities about the women that “Donne” fall head over heels for her. As, Donne fails to point out his lovers qualities, his confession sounds sallow and superficial. Furthermore, it is evident from his prior history that he loves sex. As the poem does not state what specifically happened between them the previous night, it might be possible that Donne fell for her because “she was good in bed”. A true love that Donne seems to address in the poem takes time to cultivate, but Donne wrote his poem the next morning. He might just be feeling impusives because of the things that aspired last night, it might be too early to call it a love that Donne argues to be.
Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.
Plain could imply 'not complex', not concealing unwanted intensions
Yeah. I agree with that. As in "true plain" a reversal of "plain truth."
It is interesting to notice the fact that we do not know if the lady that Donne had slept with really felt the same way as Donne did. Donne wrote this poem in a way as if that was the perfect relationship for both of them. But actually Donne did not really show the attitude of the lady towards this relationship in the poem. It is written as "And now good morrow to "our" waking souls" in the poem, obviously we know that Donne's soul is awakened, but it is hard for us to see how the soul of the lady wakes the same way Donne does.
For me this is the most interesting part of the poem.
Pak Lam LEE a poet writes what he knows & feels, you are talking about modern ideas, your feelings about this poem are based on more recent thinking. No one writes a shared poem, that is a parlour game where each person might write a random line! Donne has not written it the way you would like it ! The mystery is all important. We need mysteries & myths in life. Each one of us.
I don't think Donne meant 'ordinary' by 'plain'. But more like.. 'plain' to see, obvious, revealing. Just a thought.
The line,"But suck'd on country pleasures, childishly?". Could this be seen as living, or making the most-enthusiastically(the way a child may suckle), of countryside nature, happenings, fun and games with friends etc? "Pleasures", may be construed as sarcasm to what seemed great then, but, not much now compared to his time with his lover; and "childishly", being innocent not knowing any better then?
That certainly makes sense to me. Childishly as 'in an inexperienced way,' would make sense too.
"If ever any beauty I did see,
Which I desired, and got, 'twas but a dream of thee"
And with one bound he's free - of all those questions she might have about his exes :-)
I dunno. I can help thinking that if you look of what he's really saying there, we've surely all met plenty of women who'd be a bit harder to please than that, and plenty who'd be offended by the presumption that this quote would work. It could work of course, so might be worth mentioning under duress.
That scream in the background 31:03
Sir please I would like you to analyse the poem (binsey poplars ) by Gerard Manley Hopkins
thank u so much sir helped me alot
-mady
Why I find his picture is similar with Spencer 🤔🤔
You're not wrong. Very similar. Same age, same fashions, same look, I suppose.
I think the persona of the poem is so confident in his love to his lover. However, the spiritual love he claimed between their relationship was just described from the person's perspective. There is a possibility that his lover may not be thinking like this. It means that they may not be as perfect as the persona thought. The fact of them being together may not make their whole world.
Moreover, I think perfect love should be balanced in these three requirements: passion, intimacy and commitment. The spiritual love of the poem has fulfilled intimacy and commitment, as the poem emphasises what matter is their love within their soul. However, passion is also important in their relationship. I think passion involves the strong emotion acting on each other, including joy, anger or sex drive. The poem has overwhelmingly emphasises on the intimacy part of their love, seemed to me neglecting the importance of passion. At the first stanza, Donne talks about having sex when they were young. The after part of the poem suggests that their love in soul can overcome the passion. This imbalance structure of love that suggested by Donne is too perfect that it is so hard for people to practice.
Therefore, I feel doubtful whether the theme of it is to promote this spiritual love or to suggest that this kind of perfect love would not exist in the world.
i want someone to help me to find with " to what does the speaker compare himsel"
Bu şiiri çok seviyorum
I agree with Dr. Johnson: Tho the reader sometimes admires, is seldom pleased. But I do like Donne's "To His Lover Upon Going To Bed." A much better poem all around. Less contrived, less strained, less overworked. And never was poetic porn so much fun! No poet's works are all equally meritorious, and this "morning after" reverie is muddled.
No argument from me there.
This was a knowledgeable synopsis; however not playing into Donne’s rampant sexual innuendos enough.
“Without sharp north, without declining west” evokes an erect penis, and “whatever dies was not mixed equally...[if our love and love making is truly this amazing] none do slacken” is in direct, albeit paralleled, reference to an election as well.
Just food for thought!
When you say this lecture "does not play into Donne's rampant sexual innuendos enough", you may be surprised to hear that I absolutely agree with you. At the time I made this lecture I was rather against what I saw as a somewhat childish attempt to read easy quasi-Freudian sexual imagery into poetry, and deliberately ignored it here. I now think this was a mistake on my part. I think a better way to address the sexual imagery in "The Good-Morrow" would be to present every instance the poem gives us of something that could be presented that way, and these are legion, and then let the reader decide which ones are intended, which ones work, and which ones are over-analysis in a Monty Python "nudge nudge, wink wink," sort of way, if that reference still has any meaning. That would have been far more informative, and interesting than ignoring them completely as I do here and you rightly point out.
mycroftlectures nice! That makes me happy to hear, as this poem is one of my favorites due to the beauty of its romance AND the fact that he could absolutely be talking about how great their sex was in spite of/or also because of the matters of the heart. I just think that added element makes it one of the best poems of all time.
I had it read at my wedding, actually, for the double entendre reasoning. Haha, I loved that it was so romantic; however my husband and I had this great inside joke in front of all these people.
This chap's definition of the term "by my troth" is quite singular and not quite to the point. Also, he calls Donne "post-Shakespeare". Since the Bard died in 1616 and Donne in 1631 the latter can hardly be called post-Shakespearian. Further, since this poem belongs to Donne's earlier poems, when he was "Jack Donne" (born in 1572), neither can we hardly be said to be in "Post-Shakespearian times", as Mr Barker puts it.
Another point in line 3 is that the subject of "sucked" is the word "we" from "we were weaned", thus implying that they both "sucked on country (= cunt) pleasures". It is indeed a crass statement to say that she is lesbian on the odd occasion.
GIVE LINE T O LINE EXPLANATION .
Text and Experience 2023.
Ng Sheung Huen, Barron
“Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing, it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” As in who in the world could have known how many women Donne had sex with and said those appraisal words? These words and confesses have little to no weight as there is no mention of any specific features the lady possesses. What he saw in her makes her necessarily unique to us is unknown. This poem could very well be deemed as just words play to maintain this amusing sexual relationship they had, as in sex partner relation, as if like sincerely playing like he is more involved than he actually is in the interest of getting romantic attention and scratching the sex bits. We have no way of knowing how he truly feels or his intention behind all this. Especially judging from nowadays, he can simply say all of these appraisals, fooled a girl, get laid, and we would be no surprised at all. One thing he mentioned in the end, how he compared their love to the eternality of things is just too big of a boast for a relationship, how could he know he wouldn't meet another woman that is more beautiful, more appealing, that would dawn on him that make another "good-morrow to our waking souls"? To most, this poem Donne wrote is undeniably beautiful, yes indeed, but it also seems just like the raw impulse he wrote after that wonderful sex he had (to him) the previous night with that lady.
“Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Because Donne addresses his appraisal towards this beloved whom he was with, compared with all relationships he once had as if insignificant, essentially magnifying how special and unique his feelings towards this lady are, like finally finding the true beauty of his life, at least at that particular moment. This very poem shows how much impact this relationship has brought him. That he describes in terms that took his love to a spiritual level that transcends his own affection, they conform to a unity in their own world, achieving oneness among these lovers. It's a bold and direct confess how no one could separate them apart and how he holds his affection and treasure his beloved.
Chick Karen Tsz Yu
“Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” The Good Morrow represents the celebration of love, which depicts an awakening of the soul, and how love correlates with religion. In the first stanza, he commences with three rhetorical questions as regards their state of lives before getting involved together, as shown "by my troth". Metaphorically, he does not believe that both as truly adults can separate from their mother's milk until they meet with each other. In other words, the pleasures they enjoyed are viewed as innocent and childish that they were like babies who are not even weaned. Moreover, in reference to a story of seven children being buried alive by a Roman emperor, the long entombment can be found almost 200 years later, which infers his great tendency of preserving the time spent with his lover. In addition, in stanza three, he argues that they should stay in bed and gaze into each other's eyes rather than traveling to foreign countries, indicating that relinquishing the outside world is not a sacrifice to him.
“Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Donne does not specify the nature of their love, yet he puts an emphasis on the perfection of their love, such as how they complement each other. His manner is quite unctuous, that he seduces and has sex with all the other women that he has known, and too impetuous to claim that his current lover is the most beautiful and perfect one in comparison to every woman he has ever slept with. From the final three lines of the stanza, it is peculiar and nonsense what he has mentioned before falling in love with his current lover, anything he experienced and any pleasure he has is not authentic. I feel doubtful how he can ensure that his current lover is the one he loves most, though he does not know how much the girl shows affection to him. He simply believes their emotion and physical states are interrelated so deeply, known as a perfect balance of love owing to the presence of the other.
Kam Chak Fai, Jack
“Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” From the start of the poem, we can see that something happened recently that changed the relationship between Donne and the woman he’s addressing, at least Donne thought so because there’s no way he would know what the woman was thinking. This unknown incident had enabled him to see the world in a new light, to turn him into an adult with a higher level of maturity, that the “country pleasures” were merely a thing of the past (possibly conveyed by the word childish, as he outgrew it), Donne never specified what kind of event or what’s so unique in this woman that made his love transcended the realm of mere pleasures, this makes his addresses less convincing. As a biographical writing, we don’t know if his lover also had the same epiphany as him, which is why this poem exists to pitch his love toward his lover. Another thing to note is that he seduced many women in the past and tried to play it off as “preparation” for the beauty of the woman and that they were just fancies, which for all we know, he could’ve said the stuff he wrote in the poem to every lover he had, who’s to say that he would continue to love the woman he’s addressing? He might have just said those things in the heat of the moment. Such uncertainties may have undermined the perceived sincerity of the arguments he’s making here, and to us, it may sound a little bit too overbearing and way too flattering.
“Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Because the first stanza of the poem is plainly about Donne actually having an epiphany and realising how great his love for the woman in question was, and that the beauties of every other girl that he fancied were merely reflections of her, we’ll have to take his words for it. As seen from the later stanzas where he claimed that a small room with the woman was already enough, this alone doesn’t seem quite sincere, unless we consider the fact that this poem was written in a time period where sea voyage and land discoveries were insanely popular and exciting, yet Donne didn’t care for any of that, he merely wished to stay with the woman he’s pitching his love to, as he considered her as the only world there is, a dedication to their relationship devoid of any external forces, and that is a bold claim, yet sincere as it’s different from the typical love poems written in that time period (saying he’s willing to abandon everything for her). In the final stanza, he also compared the love between him and the woman (their eyes) to the earth, saying it’s greater than the world itself. Reading this out loud in the present sounds pretty cliche, yet in the past it should sound sincere and flattering enough. In the final 3 lines, alluding to the old science of humour where one would not die if things are balanced, if they had equal affection for each other, they would never die because love would hold them together forever and ever. This indicates the intensity of his dedication, passion and loyalty to the woman he was addressing this poem to, because after all, for someone who’s seduced many women, he’s saying that he would never look the someone else’s way from his current lover, hinting at his realisation of genuine love and maturity, leaving all that “country pleasure” and childishness behind, when we interpret it as Donne growing out of those childish pleasures and truly saw something unique in the woman while disregarding the concerns, then the poem sounds sincere and convincing to us.
Lai Yuen Lam Thuy
Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne's relationship to the woman he addresses. Donne's tone in the poem reflects his genuine feelings towards the woman he depicts. In the very beginning of the poem, the line “I wonder, by my troth, what thou and I / Did, till we loved?" conveys a deep sense of wonder and gratitude for the relationship between Donne and the woman and how it has changed his life. Additionally, the language he used to describe their love, such as "an everywhere" and "controules," suggests a level of intensity and passion that is difficult to fake. Donne interprets his passion of love to the woman in a distinctive and imaginative way. He portrays love as a transcending and spiritual experience, a form of love that lifts the lovers to a new extent of understanding and oneness. He stresses the intensity and all-encompassing nature of his love, using vivid imagery to describe how the love he perceived in his reality has controlled his entire world and given his life a new meaning.
Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. Because Donne does not focus on the authenticity of their love, but he sheds light on the fantasy of the love and the sexual relationship he and the woman maintain. The love is not pragmatic and realistic at all. It seems that there is nothing interesting than sex between the woman and him. He unrealistically magnifies the love to the point where the woman he is seeing is perfect and unique out of all the women he has slept with and met. Until this point, I cannot help but questioning his love to the woman is merely an infatuation. The exaggerative languages employed does not convey his root intention of the relationship and his genuine feelings as well. Everything he holds to be true in this relationship is barely his dreamy version of the love he yearns for.
SUN Yuxin, Jenny
“Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as biographical writing it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses.” Since the poem lacks a factual basis and seems to be the product of impulse after a night of passion. Donne only mentions how their love is perfectly matched and compatible, and the enlightening and life-changing impacts on him after spending a night with the girl. However, he does not specify what causes their relationship to go beyond the superficial and childish “country pleasures” to become more sophisticated and profound, such as the virtues or moral qualities of the girl. The use of romantic metaphors makes the poem sounds slightly exaggerated and unrealistic. Donne’s sweet and flattering language seems to be used to win the girl’s faithful love, and his words could also be used to attract other girls when the addressing girl loses her strong attraction. This inevitably makes readers wonder whether his love is driven by lust or inner pleasure. The poetic language is undoubtedly exquisite, but the sincerity and sustainability of Donne’s love for the girl are somewhat questionable.
“Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address.” Donne uses weaning and the story of the “seven sleepers’ den” as metaphors for his past love with the girl, and shows how he experiences spiritual awakening from a childish love to a mature one, and his determination to achieve a balanced, faithful, and immortal love with the girl. This represents Donne’s serious reflection on the development of this relationship, which has gone beyond the level of physical attraction to spiritual pleasure after a night. He also indicates that other women he previously seduce are only preparations for this girl, and only she allows him to achieve true love and growth, emphasizing the uniqueness and significance of his beloved. Moreover, love “makes one little room an everywhere” shows that only a small room is perfect enough to be Donne’s whole world because of the presence of the addressing girl, who is the only one who can build the complete world for him, and the outside world means nothing to him compared to this girl. This reflects their close connection of “we two are one”, as well as Donne’s deep obsession and crazy love for the addressing girl, and his willingness to abandon everything in the outer world for her, showing his devotion and loyalty. In the final stanza, Donne states that even the “hemispheres” of the whole planet cannot compare to each others’ eyes, emphasizing that their love is powerful, charming, and unparalleled. Although the poem sounds slightly impulsive, there is no doubt that Donne’s feelings for the girl are sincere, intense, and affectionate.
Yet one ought speak plainly...
Text and Experience 2020.
Tan Kai Teck Desmond (4198776)
How do you rate The Good Morrow as a Love Poem in 2020?
As the following tries to place John Donne’s ultimate love poem into contemporary times, it will reveal that it is inadequate. Donne speaks of waking up to a morning with an awesome girlfriend whom probably gave him the best sex of his life the night before. The first stanza alludes to their sexual experience with a vaginal pun, as well as the event of them meeting that eventually changes their ways of life with the reference to the biblical Seven Sleepers’ Den. This seems to suggest an instance of “love at first sight” (After meeting one another, they wake in a new world where all of Donne’s exes were nothing but passing fancies). Though it will be unwise to deny the premise of such a phenomenon, one ought to doubt the chances of one that results in a lasting relationship in modern times as there are many things that entails with love. We shall explore more on that below. The second stanza confirms Donne’s loyalty (For now) to his newfound love and he compares their love as worlds. The video makes a good point in suggesting that this is a more elegant way of saying “You mean the world to me.”. Perhaps this stanza can also be summarized by the concept of wherever Donne’s girlfriend goes, Donne will be there because nothing else matters as she means the world to him. In 2020, the pandemic has proven that such promise is often vain. Studies have shown divorce rates spiking across China and the States as lockdowns and social distancing guidelines are being enforced. This is due to the lockdown increasing the amount of time couples are spending with each other in the house. Before this, couples spend most of their time in separate offices, only seeing each other for maybe 4-6 hours before rest. But now, couples literally spend every waking moment seeing only each other (and their kids). Discontents with each other’s way of life (E.g. Unwillingness to do chores, poor sex, temper management etc.) eventually drives people apart. To quote Trevor Noah: “…quarantine is showing a lot of couples that they might love each other, but they don’t like each other.” The third stanza summarizes his feelings for her by emphasizing on the “oneness connection” they share in each other’s eyes and that as long as they forever love each other without fail, they will be everlasting. Disregarding the outrageous medical fallacy of the 5th verse, the poet appears to suggest that they will stay this way in love as long as their intense feeling on both parts do not change. This, as the above explained, maybe difficult to maintain in modern context, a world where there are so many temptations, so many opportunities. Though one must agree that the metaphors employed are so beautiful that they shall last eternal, the discussed elements that constitutes a healthy relationship, however, does not.
The world has changed, technology and unique circumstances have redefined what it means to love or be love. While the 16-17th century world may think of love as something as simple as sharing an intense emotional feeling for one another (Or amazing sex), the modern world thinks of love in terms of durability, loyalty and commitment on both parties. Here I would like to take a page out of the philosophical comedy, Rick and Morty. One of the episodes pokes fun at dating apps such as Tinder, in which it explores the detrimental effects of a horribly efficient dating app. In Donne’s pre-internet time, humans do not have much choice, so it becomes essential, and easier as well, to treasure that one relationship one will probably have for the rest of his/her life. However, technology and dating-apps provide people with so many choices that there is simply no incentive to maintain a relationship anymore. If this does not work out, quit and try another! There is always someone for you out there! In addition, while it might be acceptable then for Donne to assume what his partner feels, it is not so now. Love must be constructed by both parties, both must be held responsible and there ought not be any misunderstandings, especially in regard to how one feels. If it is to be modified for the modern age, there should at least be one stanza talking about how Donne shall accept their differences in character, living style as well as the flaws that come along and that he too shall work hard in achieving harmony with her. At face value, this is a timeless love poem, but it would be impractical for the modern world, especially in the Age of COVID.
Lam Wai Sum, Phronesis (4074243)
“How do you rate The Good Morrow as a Love Poem in 2020?”
Just as the lecture has pointed out, the ideas that Donne came up upon in The Good Morrow is of new and cutting edge for his time, probably not much of a cliche to people in the 17th century, but to fit this poem into contemporary situation, I inevitably doubt this. Somethings happening or being mentioned in the poem just doesn’t seem appropriate to be put in 2020. The Good Morrow written in the 1970s would be a romantic poem of love, intimacy, possessiveness etc, we can get this mood immediately just in the beginning of the poem, that Donne depicts how sweet and romantic it is to wake up with his lover, after presumably, a night of wonderful sex experience for he plays with the sound of ‘country’ to ‘cunt’. The first scene of the couple I came across in my brain when I read upon these lines, on the behalf as a person living in the year 2020, is related to only ‘one-night stand’ or a relationship that base on sex more than spiritually love, which is very common in nowadays. If the situation happened in the poem came true now, I doubt if the lover saying this line to show his affection is of ‘true-hearted’ or just a cliche. For when I continue to read on, ‘if ever any beauty I did see, Which I desired, and got, ‘twas but a dream of thee’ associates me to a modern saying that Donne (the lover who says this) is committing in ‘boyfriend suicide attempts’-meaning that he is saying something he thought it’s sweet but would actually piss off his lover. It doesn’t seem morally appropriate to account to his lover of how many women he had slept with before in modern context, but I guess it is not unusual to say this, or to ‘desire and got’ ‘any beauty’ back in the days.
Considering the eternality of things that Donne has mentioned in the poem, I do not think it is as easy for the couples in 2020 as to do what he has said to ‘possess one world, each hath one, and is one’. This is the world full of temptations, opportunities, entertainments that it is not
realistic to leave the rapidly developing world behind to just gaze into each other’s eyes to attain and maintain love in a relationship. Love isn’t merely about having feelings and intimacy towards each other, but rather of loyalty, commitments, responsibilities, efforts and a whole lot of stuffs to be consider and to balance the relation properly. In fact, with all chaotic issues related to political and health now, it is difficult but still true and significant, and will always be for two lovers to ‘be one’, to adopt each other’s opinion, to tolerant and compromise.
Tsui Long Yin, Anna (4142272)
How do you rate The Good Morrow as a Love Poem in 2020?
The Good Morrow is one good love poem in the past for confession towards his lover. But is it in 2020? No wonder we have times like John that we being attracted by someone's beauty and have sex with them in the way of modern style; more often, in the Lan Kwai Fong. Yet it is a falling in love or just a one-night stand? The answer is quite simple and obvious, few if not none, could find an eternal true lover who is willing to have sex with you on the first day and promise you I will love you forever? It is more likely if you have such impressive sex skills, that will be asked to be his sex partner. I have a little assumption on where John said they were a child before the night referring to their playful heart and not wanting to settle down with a forever partner. I found that fascinating, how did someone enjoying their playful will and end up with a grown-up heart? Even in the modern way, guys and ladies experience things before they say oh I'm not a child anymore I wanna settle down with someone I'd love and after having sex doesn't even get a chance to getting someone to be mature overnight. Moreover, this love poem in 2020 will be a sweet talk and flattery, no one will take it that seriously, and probably the girl will wonder if he is asking her to be his forever, sexual partner.
It's crystal-clear that modern people have complex thoughts on love. Love is more than sex, even more than love. A perfect example in Hong Kong, before a couple gets married, and says we are forever in love and be together, they have to own a house, gain the money, hold the weddings, etc... Even they have been through such obstacles, usually, problems still exist and destroy marriage in a lot of cases, like having an affair. In the past, it's hard to say you can meet more and more awesome people. In 2020, with such convenience traffic and social media, it is that easy to say you are the best woman I could meet and swear that you wouldn't have a slight change in heart? Moreover, I would say sex is nothing bad, but a relationship build on that I wouldn't imagine it to be forever and true love, if it is, that's a one in the million cases I would say.
Chang Cheuk Lam Cherry 4117708
How do you rate The Good Morrow by John Donne as a love poem in 2020?
As the poem starts, the speaker, Donne, tells his beloved before they met each other what they had done was all childish play after being woken up together from the night spent together. He compares their true love with the past pleasures and finds all the past pleasures as fancies. He, moreover, asserts that he had only dreamt of the true beauty, that is, his beloved whom he has got now. A glorious greeting to their soul opens the second stanza. They are now “awakened” in the true world of love and they do not have to be fearful and jealous in terms of losing each other. Here, the speaker and his beloved have moved to the spiritual world of love. They are now complete and other beauties of the materialistic world do not distract them. Their small room where they make love is the whole world for them now. He does not consider the new discoveries of the sea an important thing now because for him his beloved is the pure world of love and discoveries. In the third stanza, Donne praises the strong bond of love they share. He can see his image in her “eyeballs” and she is in his “eyeballs”. Their mutual love reflects their image so well that their hearts are clearly seen in their eyes. When the world is divided into hemispheres, their love is united and crosses all the boundaries of the physical world. At the end of the poem, the speaker applauses the immortality of their love. He claims that their bondage cannot be slackened, and their love cannot be “killed” as it is immortal and pure love.
In my opinion, in 2020, this poem can enforce the message of “loyalty” and “sincerity” of one relationship. Being affected by the Coronavirus, it is much harder for couples to be as close as before as there may be curfews, or banned from doing activities in public like going to the cinema or karaoke etc. Many couples were forced to stay at their own home and the date would be through facetiming. Long distance relationships remain long distance and there’s little chance that they can meet anytime sooner. As a result, a lot of them could not stand not being together and ended up breaking up. This poem gave us deep thoughts on how we perceive relationships. Is it only for physical comfort or find a real “soulmate”? In recent decades, I’ve observed that many youngsters chose the first one; which resulted in a rocketing number of divorce. Nowadays, being loyal and responsible seems to be cliche to people. Having a lot of partners is their pursuit.
Chong Hoi Kwo 4084248
Before we conclude whether The Good Morrow is a Love Poem in 2020, let us first explore the possible readings of the poem. The poem begins with the poet’s absolute admiration of the beauty of the woman who gives him the best (sexual) “pleasure” (line 3) which is beyond comparison, “But this, all pleasures fancies bee” (line 4), suggesting the relationship between the poet and the mesmerising woman remains on surface. Yet, the connection between the poet and the young woman has deepened and become spiritual as the “soules” (line 8) are now “awaken”. The love amongst them is very strong and real that all they ever need is each other; the love for and of each other makes their “world” as shown by lines 11 and 14, “And makes one little roome, an every where” and “Let us possesse one world, each hath one, and is one”. Their love is further illustrated as “love is in the eye of the beholder” in lines 15-16 that when they look into each other’s eyes, their faces exude the “true plain hearts”. At this point, the poet seems to show great joy and happiness as his ‘dream comes true’ - being in love with the dream woman. Yet, the “If” (line 20) at the end of the poem may lead the reader to believe otherwise. Before we get to that, let us look at the psyche of the poet. The first stanza can be understood as the poet is being engulfed by the perfect woman. However, there are concerns that come with this fancy of the woman, which, mercifully, is resolved in the second stanza as they both have their “waking soules” (line 8) in the “good morrow” (line 8). Thus, this stanza is the ‘relief’ of the poet. Yet, erratically, the poet’s “feare” (line 9) appears again as he says “If” (line 20). If both the poet and the woman have the “true plaine hearts” (line 15), why would the poet reveal a sense of uncertainty here? Assuming the poet has a determined affection of the woman, we may not be certain about the woman’s, hence, their love may not be “equal” (line 19), whereby, consciously or subconscious, the poet has insecurity in him, and the “feare” may be the unbalanced love.
At this stage, the poet seems to be the ‘giving’ one who has ultimate love for the woman. Nevertheless, what is “love” to the poet? Throughout the poem, the “love” centralises on “beauty” and physical intimacy (“countrey pleasure”, line 3). If his “love” for the woman is beyond the physical love, one may expect to see the other attributes (or the inner self) of the woman such as possessing a caring and good-natured heart, which, however, cannot be found here. This may be why it is “OUR waking soules” - stanza 2 and 3 is the want of the poet; he fancies the ‘happy ending’ with the woman. Whether it is ‘lust’ or ‘love’ that the poet has matters profoundly in determining it a “Love Poem” in 2020. To conclude, there is not a clear answer to this question. This response attempts to look at the issue of “love” in regard to the unique characteristics of the 21st century, where technology becomes the axis of our daily lives. It is an unspoken truth that oftentimes the initial intention of looking for a partner of spiritual connection becomes a ‘beauty contest’ where people ‘learn’ someone by appearance and ‘conditions’ (such as in consideration of wealth and occupation). Thus, the “swiping right” phenomenon represents “pleasure” that is taken from what you can see on the surface, just like the “pleasure” of the poet who takes from the physical beauty of the woman that he ‘loves’. Hence, this poem may appeal to those whose ‘love’ is ‘lust’ as a “Love Poem”, yet disagree by those who seek for true love, if we see it ‘lust’ that the poet has, in 2020. On the other hand, this “Love Poem” in the 17th century may debatably be a “Love Poem” in 2020 as ‘love’ is an intricate concept which can be interpreted differently, depending on whom one is asking, what kind of ‘love’ one is seeking, and how one finds ‘love’.
Is it that important 😌
wow :) really helpful :) but you can sorten it up a bit :) sometimes you repeat the same simple lines snd things over and over again , which harms the attention of the listeners :(
Lifewriting 2020.
Wong Mung Rory, 4072984
Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. Donne employs poetic devices as decoys to conceal his empty love to the addressee. his affection does not appear to transgress the boundary of lust. The nature of their relationship before the “good-morrow” is built upon sensual pleasure: It is her beauty and physicality that enticed him in the beginning. The blatant sexual wordplay further undermines the sincerity of his “love”. Donne’s attitude transforms abruptly in one particular morning without specifying any reason as if he himself is not certain about what to make of this woman. He continues his poem with ambiguous sweet-nothing, focusing on his romanticized rhetoric instead of qualities or virtues he sees in her. “The Good-Morrow” is decidedly remarkable, yet the love he attempts to transpire is not exactly compelling.
Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. Donne’s love for the addressee might go well beyond reasoning or rationality. The chain of physiological reactions after nights of passion with her could trigger something inexplicable. Donne is merely verbalizing the feeling of having butterflies in his stomach. The passion he has for her might be transient, the sense of oneness he shares with her could possibly expires, and he just might desire another flesh any time soon: But who can judge his sincerity in that particular instant? He is in love with her in that moment and nothing else matters as long as they have one another.
Lifewriting Chan Ki Tung, Tony
Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. One of which can be said to be “does John Donne know this woman well enough?” I raise this question because there are few if not none descriptions of the woman he addresses. John Donne mainly uses vague concepts to talk about her, like “hemispheres”, “plain hearts”. This is unlike William Shakespeare, who addresses Dark Lady very specifically. For instance, Shakespeare, in one of his sonnet, uses “tender inward of thy hand” to describe the woman he loves. This further adds to my doubt that “is this woman he addresses merely one among many?” In The Good Morrow, John Donne writes, “If ever any beauty I did see, Which I desired, and got, ’twas but a dream of thee”. This sentence presupposes that John Donne did desire and get girls in the past. But this is not the main point as he could get as many women as he wanted. The main point is that this type of sentence is almost like a formula. He can utter this go-to pick-up line to Lady A, Lady B, and Lady C without altering any of the wordings and he could probably still get the women.
Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. John Donne is writing an aubade, which is usually “sung by a departing lover to a sleeping woman”. At the outset, John Donne seems to be boasting about his sensual and sexual relationship in the first stanza as evidenced by cunt-ry pleasures (a witty pun) and the allegory to the snorting community in the Seven Sleeper’s den. However, when it gets to the second stanza - “And now good-morrow to our waking souls” - John Donne becomes much sincerer to the woman’s point of view and is looking for a transcendental love. For example, Donne said: “For love, all love of other sights controls/ And makes one little room an everywhere”. He is almost blind to everything else except the one and only woman sleeping in front of him. Donne also acknowledges the woman’s independence and equality, where each of the lovers represents a halve. This implies that John Donne not just wants to have coitus, a physical act of union, but also wants to have a spiritual union, one that transcends the material world.
Lifewriting Demi Kong
Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. First, Donne actively refuses to engage with the real world is somewhat absurd in a happy relationship. It is common and understandable when couples say they make each other’s world better as if the relationship is a boost to their lives. But seemingly, Donne desires to abandon the outer world as he says, “For love, all love of others controls / And makes one little room, an everywhere.” The room they are in is a microcosm, yet perfect enough for him to be his world. Also, the ignorance he expresses towards the discovery of the new continent, which is possibly the most important issue going on during that time, shows that he is overly drawn into the woman and it is not a healthy sign at all. Second, by ending the poem with the lines “If our two loves be one, or, thou and I / Love so alike, that none doe slacken, none can die,” it makes me question how thoroughly does Donne understand the notion of love or a love relationship. There is absolutely no way to love each other equally in a relationship. People do not build a relationship based on the agreement of reciprocity either. It is destined that sometimes one will be more devoted. Therefore, the statement that Donne makes is not valid at all.
Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. The implication of growth is a cogent argument to set out one's relationship. Donne uses the metaphor of weaning and the story of seven sleepers den to depict the growth of his woman and him. Growth carries a positive and progressive connotation. It indicates that the couple must have gone through something together to become two improved persons. It is an undeniably marvellous and desirable outcome of a relationship. Especially when Donne acknowledges that all the other women he has seen or even been with are only the preparation of this particular woman who is in bed with him right now. This suggests that Donne has been “growing” before he meets this woman and now he achieves his growth process.
Aison Clark Laborte, ENG-3385
Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. It feels like he is only exaggerating in his poem which also shows his weakness. The line “If ever any beauty I did see,/Which I desired, and got, ‘twas but a dream of thee” implies that perhaps he had been with other women as well. It is possible that he said something similar to each of the women that he had coitus with. It seems like he wants lust more than love with this woman. The line “And makes one little roome, an every where” gives more of a reason why the poet does not sound convincing because, not only that it is exaggerating, it is also not realistic. A woman with some sense would probably not be impressed with this line because no matter how in love the couples may be, everything outside that little room they are in totally matters, for example: financial problems, food, possible adultery that the man or the woman may commit etc.
Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. He really believes that being with this woman can bring out the best of them with the first line of the second stanza “And now good morrow to our waking soules”. He implies that the passion that he had with this woman has awoken both of their soul and will give way to many more good tomorrows. The passionate interaction he had with the woman may be only for a short time but he may be experiencing the sensation of “love at first sight”. That sensation gives him the feeling in need to connect with the woman. He imparted this feeling in the second stanza when he said they are each other’s world. He further explains how strong this connection can be in the third stanza with “Where can we finde two better hemispheares” in which he may be trying to say that they are each half of the earth and when they are together, they will become one world. Using such metaphor may be exaggerating but there may not be a better way to describe that genuine connection he felt with her.
Chan Siu Yan Fiona 4167208
Undeniably beautiful though The Good Morrow is as poetry, as Lifewriting it certainly can be seen to raise questions about Donne’s relationship to the woman he addresses. In the poem, Donne provides every reason to convince the girl. He starts by referring to the story in Christianity, then to the concept and the structure of the world. It makes me question why he has to pay so much effort to gain her love. After one night, the girl has changed from an ordinary person to a goddess, who makes him grow and in love. Donne emotions seem to have changed too fast that by spending one night makes him to completely fell in love. Additionally, I think it is effortless for Donne to get a girl as he has a history of womanizing. The words he has used in this poem, he could also use to allure the other girls. Why would the girl believe she would be the only one for him? Possibly, he would have thousands of lovers outside there waiting for him, not to mention the asking for “if our two loves are one, or, thou and I love so alike”.
Many may, however, be far more likely to see such concerns as irrelevant compared to the sincerity of the poet’s address. After the unusual night, he has grown from a childish man who only enjoys sexual pleasure, to an adult who would appreciate the spiritual pleasure. This is a life-changing experience for Donne that he is not ashamed of telling the girl the history of him womanizing. He is trying to persuade the girl with everything knowledge he has. I believe every person, especially women, loves hearing to compliment and love words, which Donne used the sweetest way to present his sincerity to the girl, saying “let us possesse one world, each hath one, and is one.” When they already own the world, is there anything they should be fearful of?
The problem with nomenclature is… there was no group of metaphysical poets… they were so named afterwards… and thus is a falsification… what the poet means with the poem we will never know, for he is not present… hence another falsification
Not getting u
God, he's dishy.
I've found it to be very shallow! More of theatrics than actual content! Good for High School alright but, not fit to be given out as college lectures...
I'm sorry but... this is what it felt like...
I have to disagree here. A paraphrase, by its very nature, simplifies. I've taught literature for over twenty years now, both at universities and as a private teacher, and it's clear that a lot of students simply don't or can't paraphrase a poem before they analyze its further intricacies. So often, students at high levels of academia can turn in papers on postmodern representation within . . . or the implications of the chronotope in . . . etc etc when they haven't actually understood the content of the poem they are doing the supposedly in depth analysis on. What they write is almost a template that can be cut to more or less fit any piece of art and it shows very little awareness of the specifics of the piece they are actually looking at. And I fear this is because all too often teachers skip showing students how to do the work of close analysis of a text to move onto that teacher's own area of interest as it relates to that text. Of course to those of us who already know the poem, the information in this video, and all the others, is very simple, but everything is simple when we already know it. I would contend that even at university level, it is a mistake to assume that all the students in the class know what this videos puts across. I may be wrong of course, but private tutoring is very useful for letting us know what other people DON'T know. I also always try to remember what I didn't know at that age. Which to be accurate wasn't very much at all.
thank you sir..
Thank you sir