Born in 1945, I am the oldest grandson of Floyd Kishline. He moved to Willys after Graham mfg ended, to resurrect the Willys 4-cyinder engine for subsequent use in the WWII Jeep - an amazing story in itself. Just prior to WWII, he went to Nash Motors in Kenosha, as Chief Engineer. In 1953, he directed Experimental Engrg to explore supercharging for the Nash 252 cu in six-cylinder engine. Ironically, a Paxton-McCullough unit was used. I have a dyno sheet from those test runs. Supercharging was always in the back of Floyd's mind. He retired in 1963(?), just as the 7-main 232 six eased into production, with which he was instrumental. That engine had a 45-yr production run at AMC-Chrysler-Jeep. As the video author points out, the breakthroughs of the Graham supercharger were twofold: 1) a cheap, sandcast impeller that required almost no machining, and 2) the durable and reliable supercharger driveline that operated at high rpm. These critical improvements were the result of a teaching moment that came under the direction of T. Edison - in a Maryland dynomometer lab, working during WWI to extract better performance from a truck engine. Floyd was mis-directed by his commanding officer, as Edison pointed out: "Son, a few more horsepower in this engine will not win this war for us. But making it more rugged, reliable, and requiring less servicing than theirs WILL help us win it." (An omitted postscript follows - I recall other conversations from that period, as he'd had a laryngectomy and wrote down much of his speech.) These lessons came to bear on all his subsequent work. My father (Alan R.) was also an engineer at AMC and dabbled in things mechanical, including the adapting of a belt-driven Graham supercharger to an early 50's Nash Rambler production six-cylinder engine. I have no knowledge of the source for his Graham unit, but I recall the episode almost 70 yrs ago. The owner/buyer's name was Col. Glen Swan, and he drove across country here to Kenosha where Dad installed it for him. Swan reported improved mileage and performance on his return trip. Floyd's oldest son (my uncle, F. Richard) was ineligible for military service, and ran the dynomometer testing of P&W radial aircraft engines manufactured at the Kenosha Nash plant. He was Michael Keller's source for much of the supercharger background used in Keller's book and in this video. Inspired by two generations before me, I mush on as a fabricator/restorer.
Thank you for taking so much time to write the best comment this channel has ever received. It's amazing that you're not that far removed from history and that you had the privilege of knowing and conversing with such masterminds. We feel honored that you have shared this with us, as it adds value beyond measure to the video. I hope this contribution will be read and enjoyed by many. We've read and reread it a few times and will refer to it a few times more. Sir, it's been a pleasure. Again, thank you.
Thank you to the Carz Plus team for producing this and to Gregg for his comments. I would like to add a few notes to this saga. Floyd was universally addressed as "Kish", the many references as "Floyd" sounded strange, albeit correct. Gregg noted Kish's meeting Edison c. World War I, and the emphasis on durability, and how that affected Kish's engineering practice. The role of intentional and careful testing is also apparent. It also rubbed off on his sons. After leaving G-P about 1937-38, Kish spent a year at Willys-Overland redesigning a little L-head 4 cylinder engine that was to be used in their proposal to the army for a small utility vehicle - the WWII Jeep. It was after that that Kish moved to Nash-Kelvinator. In addition to the later work with superchargers, Kish was instrumental in the first unitized chassis design, and work on combustion that would much later be called stratified charge. Kish retired in about 1959 although he remained in contact with (then) AMC engineering the rest of his life. During the war, Nash built Pratt and Whitney R-2800 aircraft engines under license, and Kish drove engineering work to significantly improve the durability of these engines. Son F. Richard (Dick), then with 2 years of college, played a role in the production and development testing of these engines. After finishing college Dick returned to Nash and his entire professional career was there retiring as an industry expert in vehicle Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH). A third factor in the successful creation of an affordable supercharger reflects in the state of available materials in the early 1930s. Kish used the best available steel materials and non-ferrous materials, balancing the costs involved. The lower speed of the Graham supercharger (compared to the luxury versions) allowed economical materials and processes compared to the essentially hand production used previously. Today we have better materials at better prices and a supercharger today would be higher speed and offer more benefit, but that is what progress is about, and it rests of the shoulders of the predecessors. Thank you again to Carz Plus
Thank you so much for your edition to this saga. Floyd shall continue from this point forward to be remembered as Kish at the Carz Plus studios. Thank you for adding more priceless information and history. Once again, we feel honored. Your wealth of knowledge is fascinating.
A very thorough and enjoyable explanation, with great attention to detail.....We had a very old wrecking yard in my town back in the early 70s when I was a teen. I remember exploring it many times and was astonished to find a Spirit of Motion 1938 Graham 4dr that had a Supercharger on it. I've been a fan of these advanced and unusual automobiles ever since.
Oh wow! Any idea what became of that car? Thanks for watching and appreciating the information; we had wanted to make this presentation for quite some time.
I will be honest. I don't believe that Graham or McCulloch where related. But I do have to say both of their superchargers where loosely based on a Black Smith forge blower. Which if you google the time was around in the late 1800's and looks like the supercharger turned up on it's side. These blowers used to super heat a black smith forge, Pre-dates both and has the characteristic pancake design. So I don't really buy that one ripped off the other. When the thing that makes them similar was already a common hand cranked Black smith item.
Glad you asked; you've found the right place. You can find everything you need to know here, at Custom Replications: customreplications.com/supercharger-restoration Thanks so much for asking!
I have painted a Graham that is parked in WA state in front of a barn. Would love to share it with you. Maybe you could narrow down the year for me. Great video you have put together here. Thanks!
Please do! Visit our website, customreplications.com/ Scroll to the bottom of the page to the contact us section. If you're unable to send us an attachment let us know when you send your first email. Thanks for watching!
Love your video,great information,greatcars,great innovators,Note any information on Chadwick cars?Thank you for this video great inf ormation,love it,
I'm aware of the Chadwick. Saw an article on them 30 years ago in Automobile Quarterly. It was an article about early 6 cylinder (in-line 6s). Although they were a low production car, they were high quality. It had a water cooled engine with a water jacket made of spun copper.
Very nice video! Lot of info that I didn't have, thank you! I have a Graham 8 cylinder supercharger here in France, that I mount on a Ford model B 4 cylinder, with lot of pre-war speed part as well. Thank you 👍🇫🇷
My Dad's Grahams all had superchargers. They had more power, ran cooler, and used less fuel than the popular cars of the day. They also had better brakes and handling. I had a Graham supercharger that was trying to mount on a 48 Studebaker Champion. I never did it. But it would have made that car way better.
Thank you so much. It's always our pleasure to share the information and technology. It's part of our mission with this channel. Glad to hear you found it useful and thanks for watching.
Unfortunately the Graham-Paige Motors Corporation records were disposed of when they left the automotive business. The best estimates from annual reports and external reported numbers place the total at 3,794, but this is noted in Michael E. Keller's book as not verifiable. They were only produced in 1934 and 1935. All 8 cylinder production ended in 1935.
Thank you. This was extremely informative. I have one sitting on my wall in my man cave. It still turns. It's good to know the history. Now, do i bother going through it? 😅
Glad it was helpful! It can be tempting to tinker with them. As long as it still turns, I'd leave it as is, until you're ready to use it with a Graham Supercharged engine. Here's a link to our Supercharger playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL_APaYrVINp_m9ywy3gNGnokDHrqTHDL3.html
We love to preserve history and one thing we often forget is how closely we are connected to some of it. Your grandfather's security pass is something to cherish. Hopefully you'll be able to pass it on to another set of caring hands. Thank you for sharing and for watching.
Interesting and very informative but one constructive criticism- your over use of the word 'actually'. This is a filler word and very seldom serves any purpose or assists in conveying further understanding - unless there is some debate over the matter at hand or if there are other possible options to choose from so you point out which is the 'actual' one for instance. And there are other legitimate uses, but mostly it is not needed. Otherwise it is a no more than an 'um' or an 'ah' disguised with a word. I am surely being pedantic but I only offer this advice with the best intentions for your future videos. And of course, you are actually free to ignore it...
You are correct it is a bad habit I have been trying to kill. At least I do not have the common problem of adding "ah" or "um" as filler since many people can not stand pauses when they speak publicly.
Born in 1945, I am the oldest grandson of Floyd Kishline. He moved to Willys after Graham mfg ended, to resurrect the Willys 4-cyinder engine for subsequent use in the WWII Jeep - an amazing story in itself. Just prior to WWII, he went to Nash Motors in Kenosha, as Chief Engineer.
In 1953, he directed Experimental Engrg to explore supercharging for the Nash 252 cu in six-cylinder engine. Ironically, a Paxton-McCullough unit was used. I have a dyno sheet from those test runs. Supercharging was always in the back of Floyd's mind. He retired in 1963(?), just as the 7-main 232 six eased into production, with which he was instrumental. That engine had a 45-yr production run at AMC-Chrysler-Jeep.
As the video author points out, the breakthroughs of the Graham supercharger were twofold: 1) a cheap, sandcast impeller that required almost no machining, and 2) the durable and reliable supercharger driveline that operated at high rpm.
These critical improvements were the result of a teaching moment that came under the direction of T. Edison - in a Maryland dynomometer lab, working during WWI to extract better performance from a truck engine. Floyd was mis-directed by his commanding officer, as Edison pointed out: "Son, a few more horsepower in this engine will not win this war for us. But making it more rugged, reliable, and requiring less servicing than theirs WILL help us win it." (An omitted postscript follows - I recall other conversations from that period, as he'd had a laryngectomy and wrote down much of his speech.) These lessons came to bear on all his subsequent work.
My father (Alan R.) was also an engineer at AMC and dabbled in things mechanical, including the adapting of a belt-driven Graham supercharger to an early 50's Nash Rambler production six-cylinder engine. I have no knowledge of the source for his Graham unit, but I recall the episode almost 70 yrs ago. The owner/buyer's name was Col. Glen Swan, and he drove across country here to Kenosha where Dad installed it for him. Swan reported improved mileage and performance on his return trip.
Floyd's oldest son (my uncle, F. Richard) was ineligible for military service, and ran the dynomometer testing of P&W radial aircraft engines manufactured at the Kenosha Nash plant. He was Michael Keller's source for much of the supercharger background used in Keller's book and in this video.
Inspired by two generations before me, I mush on as a fabricator/restorer.
Thank you for taking so much time to write the best comment this channel has ever received. It's amazing that you're not that far removed from history and that you had the privilege of knowing and conversing with such masterminds. We feel honored that you have shared this with us, as it adds value beyond measure to the video. I hope this contribution will be read and enjoyed by many. We've read and reread it a few times and will refer to it a few times more. Sir, it's been a pleasure. Again, thank you.
Thank you to the Carz Plus team for producing this and to Gregg for his comments. I would like to add a few notes to this saga.
Floyd was universally addressed as "Kish", the many references as "Floyd" sounded strange, albeit correct. Gregg noted Kish's meeting Edison c. World War I, and the emphasis on durability, and how that affected Kish's engineering practice. The role of intentional and careful testing is also apparent. It also rubbed off on his sons.
After leaving G-P about 1937-38, Kish spent a year at Willys-Overland redesigning a little L-head 4 cylinder engine that was to be used in their proposal to the army for a small utility vehicle - the WWII Jeep. It was after that that Kish moved to Nash-Kelvinator. In addition to the later work with superchargers, Kish was instrumental in the first unitized chassis design, and work on combustion that would much later be called stratified charge. Kish retired in about 1959 although he remained in contact with (then) AMC engineering the rest of his life. During the war, Nash built Pratt and Whitney R-2800 aircraft engines under license, and Kish drove engineering work to significantly improve the durability of these engines. Son F. Richard (Dick), then with 2 years of college, played a role in the production and development testing of these engines. After finishing college Dick returned to Nash and his entire professional career was there retiring as an industry expert in vehicle Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH).
A third factor in the successful creation of an affordable supercharger reflects in the state of available materials in the early 1930s. Kish used the best available steel materials and non-ferrous materials, balancing the costs involved. The lower speed of the Graham supercharger (compared to the luxury versions) allowed economical materials and processes compared to the essentially hand production used previously. Today we have better materials at better prices and a supercharger today would be higher speed and offer more benefit, but that is what progress is about, and it rests of the shoulders of the predecessors.
Thank you again to Carz Plus
Thank you so much for your edition to this saga. Floyd shall continue from this point forward to be remembered as Kish at the Carz Plus studios. Thank you for adding more priceless information and history. Once again, we feel honored. Your wealth of knowledge is fascinating.
A very thorough and enjoyable explanation, with great attention to detail.....We had a very old wrecking yard in my town back in the early 70s when I was a teen. I remember exploring it many times and was astonished to find a Spirit of Motion 1938 Graham 4dr that had a Supercharger on it. I've been a fan of these advanced and unusual automobiles ever since.
Oh wow! Any idea what became of that car? Thanks for watching and appreciating the information; we had wanted to make this presentation for quite some time.
I will be honest. I don't believe that Graham or McCulloch where related. But I do have to say both of their superchargers where loosely based on a Black Smith forge blower. Which if you google the time was around in the late 1800's and looks like the supercharger turned up on it's side. These blowers used to super heat a black smith forge, Pre-dates both and has the characteristic pancake design. So I don't really buy that one ripped off the other. When the thing that makes them similar was already a common hand cranked Black smith item.
You might have something there. Quite possibly, that is an original inspiration for the basic blower. Thanks for watching!
Louis Renault found centrifugal supercharger. Blowers are different, they dont make boost.
I have 2 Graham superchargers plus Graham parts and shop manual.where can I get one rebuilt? Thanks Lloyd Mason
Glad you asked; you've found the right place. You can find everything you need to know here, at Custom Replications: customreplications.com/supercharger-restoration Thanks so much for asking!
I have painted a Graham that is parked in WA state in front of a barn. Would love to share it with you. Maybe you could narrow down the year for me. Great video you have put together here. Thanks!
Please do! Visit our website, customreplications.com/ Scroll to the bottom of the page to the contact us section. If you're unable to send us an attachment let us know when you send your first email. Thanks for watching!
Love your video,great information,greatcars,great innovators,Note any information on Chadwick cars?Thank you for this video great inf ormation,love it,
I'm aware of the Chadwick. Saw an article on them 30 years ago in Automobile Quarterly. It was an article about early 6 cylinder (in-line 6s). Although they were a low production car, they were high quality. It had a water cooled engine with a water jacket made of spun copper.
Very nice video! Lot of info that I didn't have, thank you!
I have a Graham 8 cylinder supercharger here in France, that I mount on a Ford model B 4 cylinder, with lot of pre-war speed part as well.
Thank you 👍🇫🇷
Thank you for watching and commenting on this video. David has tuned into your channel and has enjoyed your videos as well.
My Dad's Grahams all had superchargers. They had more power, ran cooler, and used less fuel than the popular cars of the day. They also had better brakes and handling. I had a Graham supercharger that was trying to mount on a 48 Studebaker Champion. I never did it. But it would have made that car way better.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing your experience and your memories of your dad's great cars. Thanks for watching!
Interesting video on a car and a technology I did not know.
Thank you so much. It's always our pleasure to share the information and technology. It's part of our mission with this channel. Glad to hear you found it useful and thanks for watching.
A work of art!
That's a very good way of putting it. The Graham Supercharger really is a marvel. Thanks for watching!
Enjoyed your video, David. Do you know how many Graham supercharged eights were built?
Unfortunately the Graham-Paige Motors Corporation records were disposed of when they left the automotive business. The best estimates from annual reports and external reported numbers place the total at 3,794, but this is noted in Michael E. Keller's book as not verifiable. They were only produced in 1934 and 1935. All 8 cylinder production ended in 1935.
@@CarzPlus Thanks David, that is very helpful.
three brothers from Washington, Indiana!
A very viable option on how to do it, and a good source for our viewers who are looking for a source to finish their reflectors. Thanks!
Thank you. This was extremely informative. I have one sitting on my wall in my man cave. It still turns. It's good to know the history. Now, do i bother going through it? 😅
Glad it was helpful! It can be tempting to tinker with them. As long as it still turns, I'd leave it as is, until you're ready to use it with a Graham Supercharged engine. Here's a link to our Supercharger playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL_APaYrVINp_m9ywy3gNGnokDHrqTHDL3.html
@@CarzPlus for now its just an art piece on the wall i walk by and spin ever once in a while lol
I have my great grandfather security pass from Graham Paige
We love to preserve history and one thing we often forget is how closely we are connected to some of it. Your grandfather's security pass is something to cherish. Hopefully you'll be able to pass it on to another set of caring hands. Thank you for sharing and for watching.
What charging pressure graham engine have?
About 5.5 pounds of boost. Feel free to ask more questions. Thanks for watching.
Interesting and very informative but one constructive criticism- your over use of the word 'actually'. This is a filler word and very seldom serves any purpose or assists in conveying further understanding - unless there is some debate over the matter at hand or if there are other possible options to choose from so you point out which is the 'actual' one for instance. And there are other legitimate uses, but mostly it is not needed. Otherwise it is a no more than an 'um' or an 'ah' disguised with a word. I am surely being pedantic but I only offer this advice with the best intentions for your future videos. And of course, you are actually free to ignore it...
You are correct it is a bad habit I have been trying to kill. At least I do not have the common problem of adding "ah" or "um" as filler since many people can not stand pauses when they speak publicly.