Hawkeye: Mary Sue won't save the MCU |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- The MCU seems increasingly dull, lifeless, procedural; it doesn't have the energy it once did. It's in decline, and Hawkeye - now streaming on Disney+ - has failed to reverse the trend.
Clint Barton himself is old, tired and suffering, and the same could be said of all Marvel's recent productions. His replacement, Kate Bishop, is an unimaginative, irritating, shallow creation, rising too often to the level of a Mary Sue.
If it has no stories left to tell, and nothing left that's worth saying; if the MCU doesn't have any reason to be anymore, then perhaps it's time for us to bring it to a close.
The Avengers Infinity Saga was a superb achievement, and it will stand the test of time. Why risk cheapening all that by adding more and more of less and less worth?
#Marvel #Hawkeye #Avengers #MCU #Film #Review
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There is one moment in the show that I actually did enjoy. That was when Clint takes his kids to the musical about Steve Rogers and starts having a PTSD attack while watching their song about the Battle of New York. You can't tell me that someone wouldn't have that type of episode. Hell, one of my coworkers father is a Vietnam veteran (and a super nice guy) and he's told me he doesn't watch war movies (especially about Vietnam, he won't even finish Forrest Gump) precisely to avoid those types of episodes (he says they hit too close to home). It was nice to see a real response to something as fantastic as an alien invasion led by the Norse god of mischief. That was the only moment in the show that really struck a chord with me. I honestly believe it would be hard for Clint to watch a show about his friends especially after the loss of Steve, Tony and especially Nat. And all of that was after his family disappeared on him and he was powerless to stop that. That's why the stuff with Clint in Endgame, brief as it was, hit so hard. We saw Clint suffer, and I mean really suffer.
Agreed. The show could’ve done with a lot more of that early on, and a lot less of the cherry, chirpy, generic humour.
In Thor love and failure. I would have liked him to put a stop to the comedy they made of his father's death. Which just so happens to have been their God and King... (I hate this movie so much)
I think it would've made more sense if Clint had really any troubles during the final battle but he's having the time of his life, still a pretty neat scene!
Renner is a genuinely good actor but he rarely gets much to work with
@@TheLittlePlatoon The two aren’t mutually exclusive, dipshit.
Also, you didn’t use any of those words correctly.
"You can't be nostalgic if you don't let things die." Damn if that isn't a hard pill to swallow...
I dunno... _is_ it, though? I'm fine with not ever needing to be nostalgic. This feels to me like saying "you can't stub your toe without kicking a solid object" - well yeah, it's true, but I'm not exactly depressed by the fact, you know what I mean? Like, who's going around saying "damn, I wanted to be nostalgic so I destroyed something I like, it's tough but you gotta do it :("?
Bro maybe just _don't take that pill then_
It seems to me that it's not nostalgia, per se, that we really want; that's a consolation prize you get when you can't have the thing itself back. The bitterness is from just the fact of death in general: we all try to avoid thinking about how everything we love will probably die eventually.
(I say "probably" because I'm signing up for goddamn cryonics. Hey, it counts okay, *I'm* something I love...)
@@Kveldred You make a persuasive and eloquent argument, and I agree with most of what you say. However I think when it comes to the video and the quote, it’s important to remember the context. A lot of modern big budget films seem to have an uncanny reliance on nostalgia while also trying to do the exact same thing in a new light, like trying to make an old dog relearn old tricks in a new way. I know it’s not a great metaphor, but I think it sums up enough to understand.
@@bananakinflyswatter904 Well this is the most thought-provoking and pleasant interaction I've ever had on TH-cam. Now I don't know what to say
No, no, I'm kidding (but only about the last line). I see what you're saying, and it does make sense; in the context of media, you want to gain some nostalgic fun by bringing back a character or IP... but it doesn't work; it (usually) just feels empty or forced, then. You have to let a good series end when it's still good and then come back to it to avoid that - otherwise, it wears out its welcome, and you probably won't miss it enough to be nostalgic in the first place.
(Unfortunately, I can no longer feel this emotion any more at all, myself... Man. I sure do miss how I used to be nostalgic.
...I'll get my coat)
Some things die even when you don't let them. The MCU for example. It's going strong, right? But to me, despite wanting to keep enjoying it, it's dead. It's not the MCU I knew.
Random example, but the anime for Mob Psycho 100, a brilliant series by the same manga author as One Punch Man, just ended. All through the comments on Crunchyroll for that final episode was sorrow at seeing a beloved story end, but more than that, a whole lot of gratitude for the author and animation studio that made the series possible. There was a genuine sense of loss, but also happiness that a story that good was not ruined by extending it too much.
I will say at least Kate Bishop doesn't shit on Clint the whole time. "YEah i'm just better because i'm a girl" is a common thing Marvel has been doing recently but Kate actually looked up to Clint and knew she had things to learn from him. She's a legacy character done right imo.
definitely isnt right to call her a "mary sue. she has motivation and means for her skills. a dead parent and the idealization of a hero. She wants to become like Clint and her parent had the money to help her achieve it.
She also keeps getting saved by Clint rather than her ever saving him. Her moments of trying to show off how good she is come across more as she wants recognition from the man she admires than to show him up, and ended in her making matters worse several times.
Overall not a great series but not bad either. it's fairly average but it gets at least her character right
@@redbearington3345 Yeah, I haven't seen the series, but from the clips I see on TH-cam, it seems Kate Bishop gets more and more beat up the further into the movie we get.
@@redbearington3345 Absolutely, I agree that there are several Mary Sues in MCU, but calling Kate Bishop a Mary Sue is way too extreme... It's like calling Tony Stark a Gary Stu, since Tony Stark also get a exposition in the start of the movie on how smart he is, and gets liked by everyone (getting an award, a bunch of people surrounding him in the casino, and a reporter who questions him instantly have sex with him)...
Nowadays, this is gold I am willing to take.
The first thing today that makes me want to watch anything.... I was getting disappointed hearing this review as I have thought highly of Hailee (!) since Enders Game. I might give this a try given your comment....
Here's something I thought would have been interesting, at least in the hands of a more competent writer. Kate does take up archery as a child (before the Battle of New York, and that is reinforced by her seeing Clint fighting with a bow), but she knows nothing of any other martial arts. That's where Clint comes in because we saw Clint was a capable combatant with guns, knives, swords and his bare hands. Then when she gets involved in the business of avenging, she's a great shot with a bow, but little else, and promptly gets taken apart in a fist fight or with some type of weapon (sword, staff, hell even a baseball bat would be fine). This is what Clint is able to teach her. How to fight, how to assess a threat, how to hide, how to track people down. All of the spy/assassin/secret agent stuff we saw he and Nat do that made them so valuable to the Avengers. The fact that she has little to learn from Clint is really boring and more than a little annoying at this point.
Also, I'm honestly getting a creepy vibe with Kate, Rey in Star Wars and Batwoman on the CW. That's the vibe of stolen valour. If you don't know what that is that's where people pretend to be veterans, first responders, etc. in an attempt to gain undue respect/attention/compensation. It's the superhero equivalent and it's just as disturbing with superheroes/fictional characters as it is in real life. They didn't earn their skills through hard work, study and practice. They're just automatically that special. However, that isn't enough. They also have to be the best at it, even better than their predecessors (that was something that at least made Kylo Ren somewhat interesting in the force awakens was he was trying to follow in Darth Vader's footsteps but had none of the mental discipline or gripping menace that Vader had). Then comes the disturbing part, they actually take over the mantle of their predecessor, who they didn't actually learn from, and yet are instantaneously better than. If that isn't a scathing critique of 21st century feminist thought I don't know what is. They take credit for something they didn't do, while taking over something they didn't build, while not putting in any of the work it required to attain it in the first place.
U
Yeah that's pretty much the vibe I've gotten from everything post Endgame. The people doing it are, at best here for a paycheck, but mostly are taking over something they didn't build and have no idea how to manage.
A woman who needs to be taught by a man? Stop right there you criminal scum!
I think an introvert Kate Bishop could have been amazing. It’s more believable that an introvert would become expert-level at a solo activity like archery. And it would be a good reflection of Clint’s personality it when he was young. And the intro scene when she’s watching Clint and becoming inspired… would be great with closeup shots of her eyes, showing how a introvert can be deeply affected by what they see and built their life around it
Kate is an amazing character in the comics though ,doing this would butcher that character
@@beeday7142 Sorry, I somehow forgot that these characters come from the comics. I was just thinking what would be an interesting character for a show.
Or just some one who’s both talented and an extrovert. But oh my she must be a marry sue
Remember when Hawkeye was teaching his daughter how to shoot?
Yeah. That was nice. Glad it's fucking pointless now.
I mean this isn’t something outta no where, Kate Bishop does take up the mantle of Hawkeye.
@@BlaxkSun yeah, in this new era of Marvel comics which have been doing so poorly that if it wasn't for their movie division, Marvel would've gone down under years ago
@@HateshWarkio and you can say that but they are sticking to continuity. You can’t say you want them to be comic accurate one moment and when they do u have problem with it
Why is it pointless? You take your kid to karate class and they don't get their black belt. So pointless?
Remember when Clint and Laura named their baby after Nat?
Marvel doesn't.
I clicked on this video because I thought it would be light viewing while I ate my dinner. But wow, your views on the emotional nature of nostalgia were so poignant, that I nearly started weeping with my mouth full of fried chicken. Kudos!
"America does not know how or when to stop" - I've got a feeling it applies not only to cinema...
I just find it funny that he's saying that the British don't have the same problem, because, in many ways they're actually worse in that regard.
@@qty1315 I don't think he noticed given the frantic handjob he was giving his own country's "achievements".
"British Empire." You know, the sun doesn't set on and all that.
As if it's nothing like that in other countries. It's just Hollywood nonsense, and like anything else, it's ultimately a Business. Hollywood isn't the largest, that would go to Bollywood, but it's more recognizable and influential than Bollywood, and it just so happens to be in the US, California in particular.
As far as I know as an American, views on California here are very polarizing. Not everyone in the US is a Californian, far from it. Heck, California can pass as a Country given the way that it is.
@@qty1315 Sounds like self-righteous ignorance if you ask me. For lack of better term.
"Americans need to learn to let things go"
Two of your most famous franchises here are James Bond and Doctor Who.
“All female jaws reboot” 😂
The worst part is that I kinda liked Kate just because she isn't toxic like the rest of 'strong female characters' but actually she's a kind and good person
How fuсked everything is if this is enough these days goddamn
Same here.
She the absolute best of the new characters we've been offered. It's not nearly enough to save the Marvel from its self induced death spiral. I just hope they don't poison her to the point we see her on media outings talking about inclusion and representation nonsense.
"America does not know how or when to stop"
Remind me how many Dr. Whos you got over there?
As an American, doctor who feels fresh because they scrap every side character and recast the doctor every time they change the show runner. It got bad recently, but up until the 13ths writing it was decent to good with only some bads throughout
Exception that proves the rule???
@@smartfridge2279 And?
You apparently forgot about a little BBC show called Dr Who, that is the British version of Star Trek Picard/Discovery.
To be fair, that had a pretty good run when it came back. Nothing wrong with bringing dead franchises back when you can improve on them.
@@jrd33 Definitely, Doctors 9 through 12 had their ups and downs but were pretty solid overall in my opinion.
@@S3Cs4uN8 yeah, realistically if 13 had better writing and an actual competent show runner she could have been a good doctor
There are exceptions yeah, but generally he's right. British TV generally has shows that tell a story then are done. If they come up with another story, they tell that one, and its done.
@@jrd33 Same with Star trek... However the star trek got brought back in the 80s
I usually agree with you but I gotta call you out on the whole “only America doesn’t know how to let things go” theory. Doctor Who is a great example of this in British pop culture, and I’m sure there are other examples of this the world over. I think America is stuck recycling media at this point because of its money-making potential (aka, corporate greed)
As an American I 100% agree with you that Hollywood typically doesn’t know when to end a franchise or series, because their main motive is financial, not artistic.
The problem is you can profit from art if there' a demand. The problem is the idiots that throw their money at Disney with a million excuses.
This was the only Marvel Disney + show I watched. I didn't hate it. I liked the New York Christmas setting and all the bits with Hawkeye in were good.
"When it's time to end, we let them end"
*Dr.Who theme begins to play*
To be fair, the Tracksuit mafia name is equally stupid in the comics
Uh, no. Harry Potter isn't finished. Rowling is milking it as hard as possible with the various spinoffs in the works. And the problem is that Hollywood realized back in the 1980's that the audience doesn't want anything new. They just want more of the same, and because it takes Hollywood 5-10 years to catch up the 'trends' the 90's was where all the sequels and remakes started. And you know what? THEY WERE RIGHT! They made money hand over fist, becoming a billion dollar industry. And it would have probably continued this trend for decades more.
Unfortunately, Hollywood became too rich. They don't need their audience as before, and so the rich, elite and mostly women or the men that want to bed them, that control Hollywood decided to use it to 'educate' us dirty, uneducated, stupid and even worse, POOR! plebs about their misandrist message. Long story short, the only reason our entertainment sucks all around in the West is because they're CHANGING it too much.
True enough, though my contention was that Harry Potter itself is a finished arc. You’re absolutely right to say that she’s milking every last drop from the wider universe, but not - to my knowledge - extending the original story and arc of the original characters, which is a distinction with a difference.
There is nothing innately wrong with remakes and sequels. There is something wrong with the mentality you describe, absolutely; but I still contend that another part of the problem is this urge to continue stories that have no life left in them. Aliens was a brilliant sequel, that’s not in doubt. But Alien IV was abysmal, and the less said about Covenant the better. There’s no spark left in these things, and the audience can feel how dead they are.
@@TheLittlePlatoon Doctor Who, then. A show that goes on and on and on with replacement actors long after it should have ended.
@@TheLittlePlatoon the movies from the Harry Potter franchise, a.k.a. Fantastic Beasts and How do I Write a Movie Script, do not have anything to with the original story and arc but there is still that one stain called Harry Potter And The Cursed Child which was an attempt at prolonging the original story and adding new arcs to it, although it was as graceful as a belly flop onto a receding wave
Remakes and sequels didn't start in the 90's you poor, ignorant, uncultured child; it has been happening since before film.
@@James_Bee Oh for the love of... You're really going to play this game? Semantics? Really? You know FULL well that before the 90's the sequel and the remake were NOT the norm. There was WAY more original fare than remakes and reboots. That changed in the 90's. Don't be disingenuous, it makes you look bad.
They could have killed Clint Barton here, and have the story line between duty and family. But no, "we can use him for future films". Jeremy Renner looks so done with this character.
In the UK they know when to stop, huh?
How's the Doctor doing nowadays?
While I agree that this series has its issues( The Tracksuit mafia is ridiculous and hardly threatening, and the writers mostly dropped the ball with Echo ) I would disagree that Kate Bishop is a Mary Sue. The typical characteristics of a Mary Sue are that they are more skilled than the established character/ characters. Their skills are largely/ completely unexplained and often unrealistic for them, they have little to no personal flaws, they succeed at everything that they do, and everyone , other than villains( but sometimes even them) loves them immediately. Does Kate fit these requirments? let us see.
1- Is Kate Bishop more skilled than established characters?
Not really. Clint is a better archer, hand to hand combatant, and planner than Kate. As he should be.
She is not even a better fencer than her mom's new bf. He obviously was humoring her and is better than she. Not that he is an " established character", but he is older and has learned more about fencing.
2-Do her skills come out of nowhere and are they too great?
No on the first. She is a rich kid with the means to become trained in archery, martial arts, and fencing, and she is explained as having trained in these skills for years.
Is she " too good" at these things( or anything, really)?
meh. She is really good, but people can become really good archers in a decade. She is a bit good at martial arts given her size ( and gender. Sorry people. Guys are just better at kicking asses than women are)
3- Does she have no flaws?
Well. She is overly impetuous and convinced of her own skills. She is somewhat socially awkward. She misses social cues and rushes into situations she does not fully understand( and pays for it). She rushes to judgement on people( i.e. her mom's new bf).
I'd say she is flawed enough to not be a Mary Sue.
4-Does she succeed and everything that she does?
Nope. She needs to be bailed out from the Track Suit Mafia by Clint. She rushes into "rescue" Clint, and actually just screws up his plans.
5-Does everyone instantly love her.
Well. The Track suit guys, some of them, do like her. Her mom's new bf is trying to get her to like him( which is what a lot of people in his situation do) . But ,Clint finds her annoying for most of the season.
I'd say that, while really skilled, Kate is no Mary Sue.
Agreed. I agree with a lot of the larger views on the MCU and media overall, but she's not a Mary Sue and, I'd say, she's one of the very few characters (new or established in Phase 4) that's actually pretty well written. Well, at least in comparison to the rest.
There are some things that are done purely for laughs, such as the one tracksuit that she helps with relationship advice. That may be a bit irksome, depending on individual preference, but at least he's really the only one of the bunch that seems to like her.
@@alexhayden219
I often agree with much of what Little Platoon says. Even in this very video, but, he is definitely wrong about Kate, showing that he either did not consider the subject well, does not actually see the character of Kate Bishop, or does not understand what a " Mary Sue" actually is supposed to be.
Given his track record on other videos I'd say the first is the most likely here.
I fully agree. Kate is one of the very few newly introduced MCU characters that I like since she doesn't have the Mary Sue issues.
So, now most of the repalcements for characters in the MCU who died or are retiring are just "This person is a fangirl of the original character who found a way to imitate their powers." And then Falcon is now "A guy who doesn't want to replace Captain America, but has to, but we're not really going to explore that in much depth."
And Disney can't figure out why Phase 4 had massive falloff and why Phase 5 will tank.
This is literally the first I have heard of a Hawkeye movie, and that makes me happy.
1:34 do you, though? Dr Who comes to mind... had to get that jab in.
I've reached the point here at 20:57 that, if I had a time machine, I would use it to go back to when you were recording for this and ask if I could tag in to say "the tracksuit mafia" whenever it comes up in script to save you the heartache. You poor soul. The sacrifices you make for us.
I feel smarter just hearing you talk! Excellent analysis. I am subscriber 94. Carry on. Cheers.
Americans often say it’s the British accent that does it…
Welcome, and good to have you aboard!
@@TheLittlePlatoon Just a by the by, the 'Tracksuit Mafia' is actually an allusion to the real life habit of the Russian Mafia to wear said tracksuits. No one really knows why, but they really like the style.
@@Slitheringpeanut They're the Russian Mafia. I'm not going to question their taste...
@@Slitheringpeanut To this day, Adidas is the "day suit" of council estate neerdowells....
Something bout the pinstripes
America is just ahead of the curve, everyone else will suffer the same problems in time.
Thanks so much for the gratifying intro! - but yes, American pop-culture rarely knows who to reach a satisfying, er, climax. ☹
Which is odd, given how much time Hollywood spends jerking itself off.
Squeezing the last dime out of product isn't American or even new idea but like most things the US does it goes full blast.
I’m in denial and choose to believe it ended with Endgame
I like to think it ended with endgame so I can still adore the mcu we had before, and all the stuff coming now (depending on how much I like it) is an epologue or fan content. (Everything but moonknight really, I fucking love moonknight) That way all the mediocre or even shit new stuff doesn't taint the amazing story we had before
It did.
@@dairycream5 moon knight is ass
I like the way they represent Kate Bishop in the show. She was never perfect or flawless. She always screws up in someway, but learns from her mistakes She is a fangirl for hawkeye, because of what he did at the battle of New York, he inspierd her to be just like him. The opening montage shows how she trained and practiced to even get to a level that's close to Hawkeye. Kate is not a Mary Sue. I hate Mary Sues.
I was honestly surprised that they didn't have Clint's daughter as the new "hawkeye". While her character isn't explored too much since she's not in a lot of scenes, it seems much more interesting than Kate's, she's literally shown training with her dad, she has great chemistry with her dad, and is a female that adds more diversity that Marvel obviously wants. I just, don't understand why she's suddenly just the daughter in the background.
Kate Bishop was in the comics and did replace Hawkeye.
Sometimes canon is overrated.
@@K05H No, sometimes canon is skippedto get to the shittiest of it, the 2016's "Marvel NOW" that introduced these bland at best, trash at mid, absolutely hideous at worst characters.
Would love to hear your take on the absolute state of Doctor Who. I like to think that it ended with Capaldi and that he never regenerated.
In the UK they know when to end a story...
Doctor Who
That is all.
Can you really says Harry Potter was ended? Id count a bunch of spin-offs as not letting something end
Clint’s emotional arc - he suffers from shame over his past sins as Ronin, and that shame is something he has to chase all over the world. The shame keeps him from drawing support from his family, and he becomes a distant father because of it. He is saved by having a mentee who sees the best in him, and that gives his life new purpose. I found it very moving, personally, even if the story around it was very flimsy.
Im american and i hate the way the rest of the world thinks of us😂
Platoon, your thoughts about the bittersweet perfection of “early” or “timely” endings brought to mind these lines from our friend Housman: “Smart lad, to slip betimes away,/From fields where glory does not stay./And early though the laurel grows,/It withers quicker than the rose…/Now you will not swell the rout/Of lads that wore their honours out,/Runners whom renown outran/And the name died before the man.”
Ben Jonson’s Pindaric Ode On Sir Lucius Carey and Sir Henry Morison also came to mind….Bravo for reminding me of two of the finest neoclassical moments in the history of British poetry! Thank you.
I'm only like a minute into this, so if you end up admitting as much, my bad, but you claim you know when to let things die, yet Dr. Who has become a shell of its former self, and y'all are still just keeping that one going. ;)
Ha. A good point, though I think I'd counter that, in the case of Dr Who, we're actively trying to kill a thing that didn't need to die. Which is a distinction with a difference.
So many people mention this. Okay. That's one example versus virtually all American media.
Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye is really the best detail about the show. The scenes with him and his family are usually good, but he himself is the only good thing about the show. I did enjoy the show EVENTUALLY putting the Mary Sue in her place, but not after being so intensely annoyed by her that I almost gave up on the show before getting anywhere close to her character's growth.
Kate is NOT a Mary Sue.
Clint is shown to better than her at multiple things, she ends up getting saved by him more then once, she isn’t loved by everyone, she makes numerous mistakes, etc.
You not liking a character isn’t the same thing as her being a Mary sue.
Everytime you sighed when saying the tracksuit mafia was hilarious, you can feel your disdain, Amazing video.
Watched civil war again, it's so good. My god, what happened to mcu!
I stopped watching all mcu films after The Winter Soldier. Civil war third act was horrid, and childish.
A jaws origin actually sounds kinda interesting 😅 just imagine the wittle giant baby shark 🥹
Giant baby shark watching his parents getting killed by some mechanical accident or oil drilling accident by humans and his life changed forever
Baby Shark is the theme song.
1:35 like doctor who? Doubt it will truly end anytime soon.
Er, you sure about Harry Potter being finished? Granted I guess the prequel movies don't focus on Harry Potter and instead focus on Dumbledore and creating a bunch of plot holes.
Even if Marvel writers were still capable this was always going to be a difficult story to adapt because it was written for a completely different Hawkeye than the MCU version. Introducing Kate instead of having her already established was another hurdle. Then they had to shoehorn in Echo who has no reason to be here. Not to mention forcing Kingpin into the narrative only to embarrass him.
Hawkeye...[female] Hawkeye
Hulk...She-Hulk
Iron Man....Ironheart.
Black Panther...[female] Black Panther (more than likely Shuri will become the new BP)
Thor...Mighty Thor (and then, Love...?)
Are they turning all the main characters into knock off female versions? And of course, they all have to make the original look incompetent and inadequate. She-Hulk, by the trailers, is showing how much better a Hulk she is than the Hulk.
They needed to tear down the strong male characters to disguise their poorly written, projected female characters
Its nothing new, DC and Marvel have been doing it for 50+ years and noone has noticed (Batman, Batgirl, Superman, Supergirl, Spider-man, Spider-Woman, that's without the examples you brought up and there are still many more) Harley Quinn from DC is a good example of how things have changed, She was originally a woman who had her mind ruined by the misogyny of the Joker, he made he what she is just because he could and then literally didnt have a care in the world for her, It was more of a reflection of how bad the Joker is, Even in the cartoon that spawned the character the joker was really off hand with her, his attitude was like 'Yeah I've already broken you Im not that interested anymore.' Now she's a hero. I cringe everytime I see a woman dressed as her, its always 'look at me being an empowered woman' completely ignoring the fact that she was a medical professional who basically had her mind raped by a misogynistic asshole and is now mentally ill, But yeah 'empowered woman' Why? Because she looks cool, and looking cool is far more important than recovering from mental illness and PTSD. So whats next for Harley? Will she recover? Will we get to see her actually become an empowered woman, Shake of the misogyny of the Joker and show the intelligence the character had before the movies? Or are we going to see more of her in short shorts flashing soldiers.....
@@TerenceA72 One of the few things about the original animated series setup for Harley Quinn worth noting was the hints of sinister intent in Quinzel from the start. It's given to us that while what happened to her is tragic, she was no saint to begin with. (Going to Arkham in hopes of making it rich off a book written about the patients does not a pleasant note strike.) But even there, it's clear her fate is a horror and is presented as such.
Lady Loki
@@TerenceA72 Sorry I'm late but,
Batgirl, Supergirl and Spider-Woman are really distinct from their male counterparts (especially Jessica Drew) and have amazing stories
For Harley Quinn, I agree. A redemption arc could have been good if the writers had taken the time to let her face her past mistakes (and not turn them into jokes)
I refuse to support George RR Martin as we all know he will never finish the books and that is truly disappointing
Kate doesn’t shit on Hawkeye the entire time, he’s not presented as insultingly stupid in order to make her look good, she makes numerous mistakes that ends up with him saving her (hell she got herself along with him), she has an actual arc, she has an personality, and she’s not loved by every freaking body.
She’s not a Mary Sue. If anything she’s one of the few female characters I would even consider decent that the MCU has nowadays.
Truthfully it would have been a better story if Hawkeye was racing around the world, increasingly tired and estranged from his family trying to tie up plot holes too “small” for the main cast.
I think there is some hunger for mature stories. Movies are simply becoming huge and transitory amusement parks consisting of a single roller coaster with no connection with the world around it, and soon left sad and abandoned.
Bold stance to take on letting things end when J.K.Rowling exists. Cursed Child exists.
Oh, I don't know... this version of Mary sue doesn't help, but a psychically powered space creature, influencing everyone into thinking they are special, successful, perfect, integrating into important places, could be an interesting villain.
The general metanarrative of letting stories rest, is interesting when describing a film world, of a comic book world, which already had multiple iterations. Arguably letting the old stories die is what they're trying, by replacing the cast. With, bad storied and bad characters, but...
Bruh she is in no way a Mary sue
She is in almost every way a Mary Sue.
@@TheLittlePlatoon I would argue more but I think we both know youtube comments sections aren't the best place for discussion. So I would just agree to disagree. Maybe future eps change my mind or maybe it will change yours. Who knows.
There are plenty of great female characters that disprove your hypothesis. A good counterexample is Beatrix Kiddo in Kill Bill 1 & 2. We actually see her learn and grow as a martial artist when she's training under Pai Mei (and her temper is seen and then exploited against her by Pai Mei and later others). We see her make tactical mistakes when she's fighting Vernita Green, Oren Ishii and Bud. She's not the absolute best at everything (Vernita is said to be better with knives for example) and she is legitimately afraid of Oren when they square off (and with good reason, as seen by the wounds she sustains in the fight). We also see her emotional vulnerability when she awakens and thinks she lost her baby (in a moment that is truly heart wrenching) and then later when she meets her daughter BB for the first time. All of that enriches her story and makes her compelling.
@@TheLittlePlatoon Yeah especially in how we saw her training, how she makes mistakes, and how she is less skilled than other more experienced characters. Clearly a Mary Sue! They should have made it so that she had no training, made no mistakes, and was better than everyone else!
Yeah, clearly you don't know what a Mary Sue is.
@@jackhummer8344 She’s presented at the off - we are literally told by exposition - that she’s a black belt, a state champion in fencing, and the bestest archer in the whole wide world.
None of that is training montages - the archery is partly shown, but not the training - it’s done by exposition.
She instantly forms close friendships with every important character, all of whom like her. She is shown beating up armies of trained thugs with minimal effort and no cost whatsoever. Her mistakes are minimal in cost and significance, usually done for purely comedic reasons. She pays no price for them and is always able to awesome her way out of any problem within 5 seconds.
She is cheery, chirpy and vapid, this cheap substitute for wit being preferred - and superseding - that of established characters, against whom it is deployed.
Yeah; she is a Mary Sue. She’s not the WORST Mary Sue, and subsequent episodes (this review covers up to and including episode 3) have slightly - but only slightly - introduced some depth to her character. But she is still a Mary Sue.
The British know when to end things? Maybe for the most part, sure but I counter with Doctor Who are you trying to fool, lol.
I understand a lot of the critique however you also have to remember that this was supposed to be a rush hour type show, which is why I kind of don’t understand the hate on the things like Clint’s slow mo shot into a ball pit
Such perfection in prose even the "Jumpsuit Mafia" *sic* couldn't dampen it.. 😏
This video review is shockingly unappreciated and far deserving of even more likes than I'm seeing as I add mine to the count nearly a year later.
And I hope it keeps increasing. 😎👍
Perhaps the reason for the poor like-to-view ratio was simply that of a product ahead of its time foreseeing the tentative decline as yet to come when the pomp and appeal of the MCU still had a bit of luster left post-endgame that had fans still believing whatever foibles on display with Hawkeye was just a bump in the road as it were.
A bump that has now undoubtedly proven to be a pothole infested travel on a road that was once the great MCU, best avoided or ignored for a better journey of experience in other forms of media from a fast dwindling landscape of quality entertainment that is Hollywood. 🤷
I am from the United States and I agree that we do not know when to stop anymore. It is annoying
You were oh so right about the need to let things die, the ever growing creative bankruptcy of the mcu is undeniable proof that Endgame, who already suffered from many troubles, should've the last movie. Maybe the x-men could've had their chance at a good film then, but now I'm skeptical it can ever happen.
After Endgame, there should have been a 2 year break while cooking up the next phase
And not the non stop pumping and dumping of endless MCU content without a sense of direction
This review is a big 💯! Couldn't agree more.
yeah, what about Dr. Who and Bond? Neither of those have ended and have went the same way as many American series.
@The Little Platoon 0:01 - Why do you imagine that giant multinationals represent anything other than the financialization of art? These have nothing to do with America. Americans lost control of their politics soon after 1980 and consequently lost control over their economy, which is to say those who own and operate corporations headquartered for advertising purposes on the American continent, including those corporations invested in the production of television series and film.
Even for rhetorical purposes it's entirely inapropos to connect Hollywood's production to America in large.
Extremely underrated comment that I honestly wouldnt expect someone that doesn't or never lived in America to innerstand... well said!!!
@@yaboi-ru4532 Many thanks, compadre.
Damn you are seriously underrated
5 mins in and I completely forgot this was a video about Hawkeye.
Has anybody ever noticed that Hawkeye was right handed when first introduced in Thor.....and later he was shooting left handed.
Did she kill anyone before or in front of Clint? Do they ever discuss that or are we just assuming she is a giggly psychopath?
Not that you are wrong about Hollywood but, how many series of Doctor Who are there again?
America/pigeon playing chess. Same same 🤷🏽♀️
YAHTZEE
I appreciate your point about endings being important in stories- and sincere thanks for the insights, as I'm presently trying to more deeply understand storytelling- this one is more probably about commodification.
The Russians (Tracksuit Mafia) were established in a solo Hawkeye series when they tried to evict everyone in his building. The title was marketed as what Hawkeye does on his days off. Very grounded in reality for the most part and local organized crime makes for a decent urban villain. But in that series that Kate later took over, they knew each other for a while. It's a shame they didn't let that story breathe and rushed to make them team Hawkeye.
The LoTR film clip while you were discussing the need to say goodbye legit choked me up.
Nothing lasts forever but you don't get tired of a blue sky, and people on their deathbeds don't ask to watch the sunrise out of habit , not everything is some fleeting high you can only enjoy once briefly .. Yeah things get done to death but with the right pacing and management they do not have to be by nature.
I agree with your intro, with one caveat; Dr. Who.
2:11 Life on Mars, Dad's Army, Faulty Towers, Sharpe, Ashes to Ashes, The Prisoner, Chef!........
"Dark and morally serious Christmas stories…" dickens! Christmas is about a baby born outside, there being no rooms available while the occupying army has rounded everyone up, who soon after gets a contract on its head: this show could afford to be dark in keeping with the character story.
LPs reluctance to say tracksuit mafia recurringly had me in stitches, thank you for the video.
The rail replacement bus always sucks. I like the idea of calling something a rail replacement.
Please don’t give them ideas
Jaws already died on a whimper
why the fuck couldnt they have his daughter take up the mantle, he was already teaching her how to use a bow and she of all people would connect to him as his hearing goes and the hawkeye side of him essentially dies, her maybe going out and becoming ronin herself because clint doesnt want her to become hawkeye and suffer life he did during his time with the mantle but her attempts to prove herself show him he cant stop her because shes just as persistent as he is so he might as well train her so she can look after herself, a simple story but one that can be done well
Well Dr. Who kinda is retconning itself into the MCU at this point too, so I guess you could call that an OUTLIER from the UK.
Imagine coming from the country that STILL makes James Bond and Dr Who and having the audacity to say that your countrymen "know when to let a good franchise go".
Edit: And you listed Harry Potter which went directly against your claims because of the 8th book and the Fantastic Beasts movie. This is a really bad take.
i would argue the issue isnt so much the mcu has to be let to die but rather the issue more specifically is not knowing when its ok to let the actors and characters we have seen move on to bring in new characters with new stories to tell. like there are certain franchises like terminator that need to be let end because each time its just a retelling of the same story but slightly differently but ips like star wars and marvel are ips with entire WORLDS and arent character based stories necessarily. like the way marvel stories in the comics and past used to play out that made them truly amazing was how the story WAS NOT made before anything else with the world and the characters being bent, battered and eventually broken in the the shape of the story but instead, you could FEEL how much the story was simply the characters existing in the alternate version of our world as shit like the skovia accords actually came about from our characters actions and became the key point that shaped A MASSIVE part of the story with that being the avengers breaking up literally leaving them in a state where when cap and tony died, neither of them woulda considered themsevles teammates anymore and while they still definantly cared about eachother, things really couldnt EVER go back to how they were because their thoughts on the skovia accords were too great..... thats the shit that truly made the mcu alive, it wasnt the story about thanos and the infinity stones so much as the characters themselves and the world they existed in most of all that truly mattered with the blip truly meant something as when half of all characters were snapped out with spidey and black panther being some of them, there was the fear that perhaps it was gonna be permanent and it was the true feeling of loss in the same way as-- eh oh yea spoiler alert for anyone who wants to watch one piece with if you havent and want to, dont read this until you have watched to episode 500.....
it brought about the same feeling as when ace died... the feeling of all the stories of his we had yet to see and all of the adventures he coulda gone on with us just.... gone....... it made him feel real in the most sureal sense as especially for those who have watched the wano and onigashima arcs, we have gotten to see some of the stories of aces that we coulda learned and its truly sad to know that we will never get to see them but in a way, it makes him feel so real that we feel the similar sorts of loss to having someone we know and for some, a loved one die truly connecting him to the audience in a way most characters that simply have their stories end without us seeing that far can never reach. its that exact fact that phase 4 has not only shown marvel / disney only cares about pushing a toxic and just flat out hurtful message while ignoring all nuance and ensuring it can never hear any arguments against its own as it does this also by basically raising the rotting corpses of our beloved heros to make them say the message so they can look at that and pretend that means their right because the character 'agreed' with them. like srly if they were to decide to go back to no way home and literally fucking flashpoint all of phase 4 and start again but this time with the directors who have worked on the previous phases and without the toxic disney ideal of pushing the extreme end of both femenism and representation than they might still have a chance to save marvel from death spiralling irreversably into at BARE MINIMUM irrevelevance or at worst, to the point of the death of marvel movies and shows at all.....
The Data laugh clip had me rolling 😂
Hawkeye can shoot through the eye of a needle… and that needle could be on Mars.
We are excluding Dr. Who on the know when to end thing, right?
Dr Who is an American show.
@@JoshuaKevinPerry Dr who. The longest running scifi show ever, created by the BBC in 1963 and stocked full of British actors is an American TV show? ROFLMAO.
Hollywood doesn't like the idea that they didn't squeeze every last cent out of it
Exho in the comic book is not physically disabled. She has all her limbs. The only disability she has is her deafness. But I guess Feige figured her being deaf in the miniseries was not enough to make her unique along with her Native American heritage, let's make her a pirate by having her lose aleg and deal with phantom pain and be on painkillers by giving Echo a fake leg she can't move like a real leg.
Actually the actress that plays the part has an actual prosthetic leg. Just FYI.
I don't think it is an American thing to "not letting go". Instead I think it is a Hollywood thing, and basically comes down to three reasons. 1st blockbusters are expensive especially advertising so if they redo something old they can reduce that expense with name recognition. 2nd I don't think Hollywood knows how to recognize good anymore, so they have no idea how to pick something new. 3rd and most importantly they are picking the creators based on WOKE instead of talent.
Remember, Hawkeye is a character who once killed and entire room full of special ops soldiers with nothing for a weapon other than his own ripped out fingernails.
You had Dr Who. 👍
Same sentiment different way of going about it.
Instead of leaving the past in the past and working on new things they think they must kill the past so the new thing can replace them.
How is this show" killing the past"?????
@@daverobson3084
By not adding anything worth wild.
@@kharijordan6426 That is not " killing the past".
@@daverobson3084 and yet it's very effective.
Maybe a new show with hawk eye will come up and it would be good...but as it stands I believe people will now just stay away from these characters.
I actually physically laughed out loud when you said the justification for her Mary Sue powers with a bow is because she's a larper. Imagination is nighter than skill apparently 🏹
It’s such a stupid hollywood trope that women who didn’t train half their life would somehow be able to pick up a bow and be Legolas. No upper body strenght built up, no fine tuning to the pull strenght of the bow, nothing.
An all girls Jaws would start out with complaining about going fishing, having trouble starting the boat then leaving the dock at 10am. After getting lost for a few hours and being grossed out by the bait they’d celebrate when they finally got it on the hook. After tons of tangled lines and shotty casts, followed by wine spritzers and saying how boring fishing is they would finally hook the beast, only to lose their grip on the pole and with it the deadly creature. They would head back into shore at around 3pm and after struggling for an hour to dock the boat they would leave the lights on and head into town for shopping. The next day theirs husbands would go out at 4am and catch the shark using dynamite and shotguns then drink beer and go back home.
Great use of Robert Frost’s poem ! It is a favorite of mine 🙏✌️
The larper logic is basically the same as " I've played call of duty, so I'm basically a senior special forces veteran" logic
5:03 "Which leads us inevitably to ..." Dr Who.
I'm late to the party but endings are definitely hard. The only awesome ending to a show I can recall is Angel. My favorite example of a show going too long is The Wire. First season was amazing, but it was absolutely one-and-done. Should never have been more.
Never watched this crap, just popped it to hear Alan Wilder’s bloody brilliant, Christmas Island used as Echo’s theme music. That man is a God amongst mortals. Team Wilder forever.
It's in the opening credits! The credits announced it's about Hawkeye with a vajayjay not about Clint...
Black belt at 14? Yeah sure. I can't speak for all martial arts of course, but the one I do know would never give a 14 year old brat a black belt, even at the off chance said brat fulfilled the athletic requirements (which is very unlikely unless you're in a Shaolin monastery like environment).