Consciousness and its Physical Substrate - Christof Koch - 11/2/22
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Learn more about the lecture: www.caltech.ed...
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©2022 California Institute of Technology
And why reality can't be a physical substrate of consciousness itself? This exposition is really basic, void and full of presumptions
私は意識は素粒子の相互作用だと思います
Is consciousness even a thing? Maybe it's not a noun but a verb.
Brown James Hernandez Ronald Garcia Frank
Wilson Patricia Lee Karen Taylor Frank
Christof begins speaking at about 3:36.
3:55 to skip all the boring intro
How Christoph can be that convinced matter exist by itself, when even quántum mechanics, as incomplete as it is. Suggest/proves that the pixels of our reality are just basically jiggles/ripples of underlaying phenomena, not existing by themselves. It is beyond me.
Excellent session!
Koch always gives the comprehensive lecture
Im not sure I buy that you can "dissociate consciousness with computation". What does that even mean to separate something from computation? Its just the series of steps to arrive at some new state. It certainly seems consciousness could be described or enveloped by that?
I currently think of consciousness as more of a meta computation, one where a lot of the computation, our inputs, are how our other computations are doing. With an ability to recall some prior state. To recognize a change, and do a comparison.
It sounds like a horrendously complicated computation, with tons of inputs, lots of feedback, and many intermediate representations to even calculate those inputs, but it still feels like a computation to me. Thats not to say that its diminished by that. Its more beautiful that consciousness would come about from that.
Idk, Im a little stoned, but Id think nature just is really good at handling LOTS of inputs. When I write a program in Python, I typically only deal with a few inputs (maybe some command line arguments, input files) and produce a few outputs (other files, text in standard out). It can get overwhelming with 10 ins/outs. Nature has gotten really good at describing and optimizing networks of thousands, tens of thousands of inputs. This means lots of data to calculate intermediate representations. Just very data rich computation.
Also, couldnt agree more that I dont think the brain takes advantage of quantum effects in processing data. Its not feasible, power wise (I think). I think what it DOES do is run certain parts of its computation of reality in parallel. This would happen through sets of parallel state machines. Each state machine may be tuned slightly different, listen to different inputs. But, they all produce similar outputs.
So in a way, like quantum computing essentially runs the parallel state machines of the universe to find the success state, our brains probably run "simulations" of different sets of outputs for a given set of inputs. Then, the next time it does its calculation, it can check how close it was to reality by comparing its old outputs to the most recent inputs.
Again, a little high, but I think its clear the brain couldnt use quantum effects, but it can run parts of the computation in parallel and pick out whose predicting best.
Really liked the thought that consciousness is more widespread. I think about the expressiveness we see in creatures even as small as bees or rats or mice is a testament to that idea that consciousness is more a pattern of computation. That there are approximations to it. That humans are just seemingly the best at it. The feedback you get as part of a computation associated with consciousness might just be less data, but still approximately similar meaning. Kinda scary to think about!
Okay, I cant lie, there somehow being a difference between the "Integrated System" and the "Feed-forward System" sounds outrageous to me. I don't feel like anything presented actually makes clear "why" one system "shape" is any better than the other. It feels like how we used to describe the universe as having an ether. Just not clear why something like that is necessary for there being the behaviors associated with consciousness.
Interesting talk over all, but in the end doesnt feel like much of value is established. Feels very philosophy heavy. Ill need to think about it some more.
conscious perception in brain of external nature? particles from nature are processed into energy (maybe virtual particles?) by the brain?
causative power in brain is related to equation of causation with space and time? and related to speed of causation squared in the conversion between energy and mass?
of the two conscious experiences, the first is subjective emotion, the second is conscious perception and thought?
might there not be causation in and of consciousness? the neuronal correlates of consciousness could demonstrate that consciousness is present or exists without causation?
have subjective awareness when sleep? and subjective emotion when dreaming?
conscious thought / mind interaction between human beings and physical nature?
can differentiate phenomenalogy as subjective from function as conscious?
Ion channels work quantumly.
Thank you! I needed this.
Excellent!
how does energy interact with physical matter in brain?
Like a complex computer. But the hardware (organic "wetware" in an aqueous environment) is much more complex, materially and organizationally.
From the introduction to a book chapter in preparation;
Irrational Materialism
The brain is meat. We experience all thought and emotion as result of neurochemistry, and neuroanatomy.
That is physical. That is materialism.
When we dream we are rewiring the long term memory of our brains. Our brains are literally not the same when we wake up as the were when we went to sleep.
That is physical. That is materialism.
BUT....
We have fictions, we have misunderstandings, we have hallucinations that all are expressed in that material context.
That ain't materialism anymore. We have religions. We have irrational materialism.
irrational would be continuing to try to pray nonexistent emergent properties such as the color blue inside the skull into existence.
instead try doing actual science ie. developing methods of rigorously observing the phenomenon you are seeking to understand.