although - > complains about JK Rowling not having all the facts, proceed to incorrectly recall the facts of the Russell Brand Jonathan Ross situation. Although I suppose their conclusion wouldn't have been different. For the record, they called up Andrew Sachs, Manuel from Fawlty Towers, who was going to be a phone guest, but he didn't answer, so they left an answer phone message. In the middle of it, Ross shouted "he fucked your granddaughter". They left three further messages that were a series of joke apologies for what they had done, including a musical reference to the fact that she wasn't menstruating at the time, and several other crude details that no grandfather wants to hear. The granddaughter was Georgina Baillie - At the time she was part of a goth/ splatterpunk burlesque/ soft porn troop called "Satanic Sluts", which is how she met Brand, they had sex then went their separate ways. She stated that the whole thing HAD affected her relationship with her grandfather, and was quite humiliating, considering the crass nature of the details relayed to Sachs, but that she understood they were joking, and that the media blew it out of proportion, but that Brand needed to learn respect for women, and Ross needed to think before speaking. I tend to agree with her assessment of the situation TBH.
There is no line since there are so many people with different backgrounds which means they will get offended from different things. For instance most of your viewers don't get offended from the stuff you do or say because they have similar mindsets which allows them to appreciate your style of humour.
It's all about discretion and mutual respect on both ends.. basically know your audience and consider what you are saying and how you deliver said message, and the other party should consider the context and meaning.. but of course there'll always be conflict of interests so honestly such a "grey area" topic can only be solved with "grey area" answers
Since comedy's a kind of free speech and free speech sort of works on the idea that you're free to say what you will but you have to accept that people are free to challenge what you say; then if someone's offended that's just them challenging what you've said. But if it doesn't hold up, they're free to still get offended but they shouldn't necessarily expect anything to be done about it and it rests on them to avoid getting offended. To the same extent, if you can't argue that in that circumstance, it was alright to joke about that thing, then it rests on the comedian to tone it down. There is a line I guess, just a wiggly one.
the only real line is the intent behind what you're saying. Are you saying it for comedic effect or are you saying it because you share those beliefs/desire to cause harm. It's also important to understand your audience, i.e not telling jokes about dead babies to someone who just lost their child
I wrote a comment about this around ten months ago but since it's applicable I'll just copy it and rejigger it a bit. Comedy _can_ be offensive, but it doesn't need to be offensive to be funny. Comedy is all about expectations and how they are or aren't subverted. Set-up, premise, punchline. Heck, I find the word "rejigger" funny simply because it sounds silly. *No one has to get hurt for something to be funny.* Now there's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of schadenfreude here and there, even jokes about a real tragedy can be done without going too far. It's when hate or bigotry get thrown around like it's _" just a joke "_ that's when people should take a step back and recognize that jokes like that cause real suffering and more hate. And I'm not even saying that jokes should never go that far; some people deserve to be the target of such jokes. But we should still be conscious of whom such jokes are attacking, and aware of the fact that they are an _attack_. Generalizing to the point where those jokes are attacking innocent people is where I see the line that shouldn't be crossed.
The line where free speech ends is not drawn where being offended starts. Different people get offended by all sorts of things. Free speech ends where your words might be used as, or are a direct incentive for other people to actively limit another persons freedom of any kind. For example saying "gas all Jews", even if only meant as a joke, is a dangerous thing to utter as racial hate always begins with public acceptance of it's existence. That's the reason why law has to step in at this point, since its sole purpose is to protect each and every individuals personal freedom.
I could write an essay in response to this video but instead I will just say I love how these guys can have such complex conversations and express their opinions in a group setting. Hopefully it gives many of the viewers a chance to think about these topics and have similar discussions either in the comments or with others. I feel that it is a choice people make to be offended, even it that choice is sub-conscious or laced with bias.
Great discussion! Gleaned what may have happened from your dialog and wholeheartedly support you. Never commented before but I actually watch you guys with my 9 year old son. It's a blast, he laughs his ass off (me too), and I explain all the references. There's always somebody that's going to bitch about something. Game on!
Utmost respect for Smiffy in this vid, completely agree with his opinions and it bought a Voltaire quote to mind: "I disagree with what you say sir, but I will defend to death your right to say it".
My dissertation from my philosophy degree was on the philosophy of property and the rights of the state to intervene in the event of war- such a fascinating topic with thousands of years of discussion.
Wow, that got real deep real fast, haha, but that's good because I quite enjoy the thoughtful conversations as well. I don't think there is a line, when talking about what's okay to joke about, which I think is fine for the most part. But I also don't think everyone should just be able to say anything. I think it can be really easy at times to say something genuinely hurtful to someone, or a group of people, without intending to do so or even realizing that it's hurtful, and I think it's good to have people speak up when that happens, even if it gets out of hand sometimes.
I've always thought where people 'draw the line' is either from a personal attack or because of a bandwagon effect where if a majority of people think this is right or wrong, other individuals would think the same way and follow the trend.
The only line is physically threatening to harm someone or multiple people, like when someone threatens to bomb people as a joke and are taken seriously.
I'm intrigued about these glass windows they have in Amsterdam, sounds like a novel idea. But then people will be able to see the stuff inside, who knows what could be going on in there? The mind boggles.
First off: holy fucking shit deepest Hat Films ever. Second: I'm more impressed by how they can perfectly race while talking about philosophy. Reminds me of me.
I think the most important part of finding out where the line is between comedy and racism, is talking with the targeted group in question. No one can decide for someone else what's too far or not.
Very much agree. Using free speech, though, as an omnipresent excuse doesn't work. In America, at least, freedom of speech doesn't cover a lot of things. Speech that pertains to committing or conspiring to commit a violent crime is invalid, and punishable. Speech that wrongfully deprives others of adequate life or liberty is also punishable. As well, and most relevant to what you guys were talking about, speech that wrongfully incites racial division or violence is absolutely punishable. There are a lot more of these examples as well.
I feel like intent and /context is the most important. If it's in a joking setting and you mean to just make comedy then sure it's fine but if you're in a position where you are inciting hatred and are not trying to lighten the context that's when it's wrong.
when talking about jokes i think that its intent that is the important thing. if you intend to entertain then its fine, if you say it to attack/offend then not as ok
11:46 Uh, Trott? Did you not see the arrow pointing the other way? 12:10 Look, it's even pointing you in that direction when you respawn. 14:00 Jesus Christ! Stop going the wrong way! 14:27 WHY WON'T YOU LEARN!?
Wall Street journal never called pewdiepie a nazi, it's article was after he lost the Disney contract, and losing the Disney contract was not censorship.
After princes and the frog came out death rates went up in America after children started to die from kissing frogs/toads and getting poisoned or infected from it.
I never try to offend anyone, but if someone is offended by something I did, then sucks to be them. People who are offended on others behalf or are just looking for something to be offended about are so annoying.
The audience drawes the line. Every one knows the context and says: This is ok, but the moment you the larger crowed goes: nope. then, you have crossed the line.
14:27 wow, was Trott really going the wrong way every time he respawned there xD Not once did he go left
Surprised not to see a load of dicks in orbit at that.
I can see the checkpoint on the left!
Dick = Ripped
He did it all the way up to the end!
17:39 "Everybody hates Jews" - Ross Hornby
*Context is key*
Really appreciated this video, funny and deep conversation. I love when others share ideas with people. also the thumbnail. why?
Elijah Miller what if I told you that most of their videos on GTA playlists and that bike game who's name I can't recall are like this?
Trials
Elijah Miller thank you. I actually remembered it shortly after.
I'm just happy they each represent their ideas calmly and intelligently.
although - > complains about JK Rowling not having all the facts, proceed to incorrectly recall the facts of the Russell Brand Jonathan Ross situation. Although I suppose their conclusion wouldn't have been different.
For the record, they called up Andrew Sachs, Manuel from Fawlty Towers, who was going to be a phone guest, but he didn't answer, so they left an answer phone message. In the middle of it, Ross shouted "he fucked your granddaughter".
They left three further messages that were a series of joke apologies for what they had done, including a musical reference to the fact that she wasn't menstruating at the time, and several other crude details that no grandfather wants to hear.
The granddaughter was Georgina Baillie - At the time she was part of a goth/ splatterpunk burlesque/ soft porn troop called "Satanic Sluts", which is how she met Brand, they had sex then went their separate ways.
She stated that the whole thing HAD affected her relationship with her grandfather, and was quite humiliating, considering the crass nature of the details relayed to Sachs, but that she understood they were joking, and that the media blew it out of proportion, but that Brand needed to learn respect for women, and Ross needed to think before speaking.
I tend to agree with her assessment of the situation TBH.
Love how Trott didn't notice he had to go left...
Yup had a feeling it was gonna be another tongue thumbnail...
There is no line since there are so many people with different backgrounds which means they will get offended from different things. For instance most of your viewers don't get offended from the stuff you do or say because they have similar mindsets which allows them to appreciate your style of humour.
It's all about discretion and mutual respect on both ends.. basically know your audience and consider what you are saying and how you deliver said message, and the other party should consider the context and meaning.. but of course there'll always be conflict of interests so honestly such a "grey area" topic can only be solved with "grey area" answers
Since comedy's a kind of free speech and free speech sort of works on the idea that you're free to say what you will but you have to accept that people are free to challenge what you say; then if someone's offended that's just them challenging what you've said. But if it doesn't hold up, they're free to still get offended but they shouldn't necessarily expect anything to be done about it and it rests on them to avoid getting offended. To the same extent, if you can't argue that in that circumstance, it was alright to joke about that thing, then it rests on the comedian to tone it down. There is a line I guess, just a wiggly one.
I think it's less that there is no line, and more the line is subjective according to an individuals taste.
the only real line is the intent behind what you're saying. Are you saying it for comedic effect or are you saying it because you share those beliefs/desire to cause harm.
It's also important to understand your audience, i.e not telling jokes about dead babies to someone who just lost their child
WHAT'S UP WITH THE TONGUES?
The real question is...Would you clone bone?
I totally would.
George Connett If you have a problem with it, get out.
Offensive Username HOSTILE ALERT!
Well, now all three have had their tongues out. Threeway next?
These thumbnails are something else...#lewisstiffyforsmithy
My mums reaction to the thumbnails was priceless. She just didn't know how to react, think or say. She just told me to change the page.
I wrote a comment about this around ten months ago but since it's applicable I'll just copy it and rejigger it a bit.
Comedy _can_ be offensive, but it doesn't need to be offensive to be funny. Comedy is all about expectations and how they are or aren't subverted. Set-up, premise, punchline. Heck, I find the word "rejigger" funny simply because it sounds silly.
*No one has to get hurt for something to be funny.*
Now there's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of schadenfreude here and there, even jokes about a real tragedy can be done without going too far. It's when hate or bigotry get thrown around like it's _" just a joke "_ that's when people should take a step back and recognize that jokes like that cause real suffering and more hate. And I'm not even saying that jokes should never go that far; some people deserve to be the target of such jokes. But we should still be conscious of whom such jokes are attacking, and aware of the fact that they are an _attack_. Generalizing to the point where those jokes are attacking innocent people is where I see the line that shouldn't be crossed.
please do hat chat for my sanity.
Lizzie they have no time at moment, but will do them Ross said.
Just watch their GTA videos. Basically small version of hatchats anyways.
I love it when hat films discuss things about recent news or just general stuff they're like there own debate group
annoyed me so much that Trott kept trying to go right ... bless him
"Either everything is ok or nothing is" - Ricky Gervais. Censoring comedy is a very slippery hill to start climbing down.
Azerock Gaming The world doesn't act in absolutes
only a sith deals in absolutes
How many tongue pictures will Hatfilms make?
17, as that is the number of tongues it will take to satisfy Trott's tiny winky.
He's got a tiny, tiny winkeeeeey...
Fart Fast Mcspeed Wow, take it easy tiger. I'm insecure and easily offended! I might burst out crying! Watch out, I'll do it!
Lord Apple I read twinky winky. I am disappointed.
The line where free speech ends is not drawn where being offended starts. Different people get offended by all sorts of things. Free speech ends where your words might be used as, or are a direct incentive for other people to actively limit another persons freedom of any kind. For example saying "gas all Jews", even if only meant as a joke, is a dangerous thing to utter as racial hate always begins with public acceptance of it's existence. That's the reason why law has to step in at this point, since its sole purpose is to protect each and every individuals personal freedom.
I'm offended by them calling Dumbledore Gandalf...
Cool episode, I like it when you guys discuss things seriously every now and then.
1:57 That sheer suprise on Ross' face.
Can't help but love Hat Films real talk in all honesty
Man, this was a heavily serious video. Which.. was definitely interesting to listen to. I very much enjoyed
They got deep about life and it's not even a Trials video! Love it!
I could write an essay in response to this video but instead I will just say I love how these guys can have such complex conversations and express their opinions in a group setting. Hopefully it gives many of the viewers a chance to think about these topics and have similar discussions either in the comments or with others. I feel that it is a choice people make to be offended, even it that choice is sub-conscious or laced with bias.
Hat films: 50% dark raunchy comedy, 50% discussing the ethics of dark, raunchy comedy. My god I love these guys.
Weird how the GTA banter is now becoming the Trials banter that we all know and love. Makes me miss Trials though. :(
Dids I'm glad because I thought that would be gone for good, I love the conversations they have
How did Trott go the wrong way for so long. Jeesh Trott, its one lap!
Great discussion! Gleaned what may have happened from your dialog and wholeheartedly support you. Never commented before but I actually watch you guys with my 9 year old son. It's a blast, he laughs his ass off (me too), and I explain all the references. There's always somebody that's going to bitch about something. Game on!
@9:11 Trott is singing the imperial march on the revenge of the 5th! :P
I'll add: You don't get to decide whether or not you've hurt someones feelings
Ahh, the last piece of the grotesque Hat Films tongue makeout thumbnail trilogy. Well done
great video guys, honestly amazing. Keep it up!
3 tongue related thumbnails in a row. I love it
I always enjoy these philosophical discussions with the Lads.
Utmost respect for Smiffy in this vid, completely agree with his opinions and it bought a Voltaire quote to mind:
"I disagree with what you say sir, but I will defend to death your right to say it".
connor forsyth I had the exact same thought but kinda feel like it's too normal for a hat films comment section xD
My dissertation from my philosophy degree was on the philosophy of property and the rights of the state to intervene in the event of war- such a fascinating topic with thousands of years of discussion.
I like how trott spent almost an entire race going the wrong way and never realized it...
The tongue thumbnails are perfect and hilarious~
what a wonderfully deep discussion yet still highly entertaining
Loved this video! Very funny and thought out conversation. Hat Films for world leaders...that would be sick!
This is like a new Trials video.
This is why I love hat films
I love it when you talk about the deep stuff.
Trout was going the wrong way for half a race
Wow, that got real deep real fast, haha, but that's good because I quite enjoy the thoughtful conversations as well.
I don't think there is a line, when talking about what's okay to joke about, which I think is fine for the most part. But I also don't think everyone should just be able to say anything. I think it can be really easy at times to say something genuinely hurtful to someone, or a group of people, without intending to do so or even realizing that it's hurtful, and I think it's good to have people speak up when that happens, even if it gets out of hand sometimes.
I came for the GTA gameplay, I stayed for the thoughtful commentary on modern comedy.
Only on Hatfilms.
I've always thought where people 'draw the line' is either from a personal attack or because of a bandwagon effect where if a majority of people think this is right or wrong, other individuals would think the same way and follow the trend.
Are tongues the new focus of thumbnails from now on? Because I'm down for that
Hatfilms, talking about interesting philosophical discussions while playing video games.
That joke at the end about the Amsterdam free show XD
The only line is physically threatening to harm someone or multiple people, like when someone threatens to bomb people as a joke and are taken seriously.
19:15 - that's why courts handle this on a case-by-case basis.
Watching smith just blast off at 2:50 made me laugh way too much
It's refreshing to hear them talk serious for a bit. Thanks boyos
So what I take home from this episode is...
eat frogs... Especially the colorful ones.
Do you have a podcast or sometging? Loved the conversations in this video lol
I Love the fact that these vids have become shorter HatChats with footage of Trott winning a GTA Race
I'm an amateur stand up comedian and I'll be honest, this actually helped a bit to writing new material! haha
Great convo fellas.
Crisp, Roc and Alec and my favourite HAT filmers.
#deepthoughts. I love the episodes where you three actually get in and think and discuss big issues.
Reminds me of Trials
I'm intrigued about these glass windows they have in Amsterdam, sounds like a novel idea. But then people will be able to see the stuff inside, who knows what could be going on in there? The mind boggles.
Trot weas stuck on that bit for so long and he wasn't even following the checkpoints.
trots singing range is actually incredible.
First off: holy fucking shit deepest Hat Films ever.
Second: I'm more impressed by how they can perfectly race while talking about philosophy. Reminds me of me.
I think the most important part of finding out where the line is between comedy and racism, is talking with the targeted group in question. No one can decide for someone else what's too far or not.
"I'm enjoying it twice though now"
Savage Trott at it again
I quite like the philosophical discussion in this video, they don't do that enough.
What a CRACKING discussion lads well done.
I always look forward to _The Moral Maze with Hat Films_ breaking out in these things. :)
I'd love to hear this kind of discussion in their podcast
thank you for the headphone warning when trott was freaking bleeding my ears apart ^^
You know what, I really like these intelligent philosophical episodes. If only those blasted tongues hadn't been there...
this was a good video. lots of good topics discussed
Honestly these debates/conversations they have in these videos are probably very healthy for them.
Very much agree. Using free speech, though, as an omnipresent excuse doesn't work. In America, at least, freedom of speech doesn't cover a lot of things. Speech that pertains to committing or conspiring to commit a violent crime is invalid, and punishable. Speech that wrongfully deprives others of adequate life or liberty is also punishable. As well, and most relevant to what you guys were talking about, speech that wrongfully incites racial division or violence is absolutely punishable. There are a lot more of these examples as well.
I feel like intent and /context is the most important. If it's in a joking setting and you mean to just make comedy then sure it's fine but if you're in a position where you are inciting hatred and are not trying to lighten the context that's when it's wrong.
So this has officially replaced Trials as Hat Films' philosophy series
GTA Playlists have become the new Trials
Some say Trott is still going the wrong way to this day
a lot of good thoughts in this video. good to have real discussion sometimes
You are really going at it with the tounges
This conversation got really deep, really quickly
I've met the Racoon they used for Rocket's initial model. he's a nice racoon. Suprisingly, not named Rocket.
You guys cover a lot of the content found in British philosopher John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty". Well worth a read for those interested.
'Don't eat random frogs.' That is a T-shirt and a bumper sticker in one!
I love it when the hat boys get philosophical
when talking about jokes i think that its intent that is the important thing. if you intend to entertain then its fine, if you say it to attack/offend then not as ok
I think ideally the line is/should be the context of any given thing in a case by case basis
these thumbnails r the best
Zoe Saldana is Gamora (shes also uhura in the Star Trek Reboots)
Paula Patton is Garona
wow trott can really hit those high notes
Does the rocket on the back of the car blow up other cars if you drive right in front of them?
11:46 Uh, Trott? Did you not see the arrow pointing the other way?
12:10 Look, it's even pointing you in that direction when you respawn.
14:00 Jesus Christ! Stop going the wrong way!
14:27 WHY WON'T YOU LEARN!?
Wall Street journal never called pewdiepie a nazi, it's article was after he lost the Disney contract, and losing the Disney contract was not censorship.
you guys are so smart, I love you.
love this! just nodded and said amen about 5x
I loved the conversation!
Congrats, you boys discovered the basics of John Stuart Mill's Harm Principle, well done.
After princes and the frog came out death rates went up in America after children started to die from kissing frogs/toads and getting poisoned or infected from it.
I never try to offend anyone, but if someone is offended by something I did, then sucks to be them. People who are offended on others behalf or are just looking for something to be offended about are so annoying.
The audience drawes the line. Every one knows the context and says: This is ok, but the moment you the larger crowed goes: nope. then, you have crossed the line.