This is so sobering. I listen to this and it makes me think deeply about our natures. Look how God gave one revelation to Israel and by the time of the Messiah there were dozens of sect each the polar opposite of the other. It teaches us something about ourselves that we are not bringing into focus in these discussions- Sin. Humans have pride and always try to exert the influence unduly. Even look at how the law which was meant for the good of the nation of Israel because of pride led to their downfall. It is amazing! We too are in danger of the same errors as they if we do not walk humble and set the Lord constantly before our face. We are prone to making the reaction to an error the WAY which in turns becomes the new error. That's so in agreement with Paul's take on things when he calls the 'partisan spirit', dissimulation, strife to be all works of the flesh which Satan uses very skillfully to fight against the people of God. Let us in addition to pointing out the errors of these men be extremely diligent that we do not fall after their example.
These videos are so amazing once you realize how much time, effort, and research goes into finding all this information. I needed that feeling Charles provided when he stated, "I think if I keep going, Imma end up having to preach a sermon!" It's understandable the amount of emotion, which has to be suppressed while delivering these messages to the public.
Growing up in a pentecostal/full gospel environment in the fifties and sixties, it is fascinating to get such insights in so many names that I used to hear and later read about. This is a great work you are doing and important for anyone to takes discernment seriously. (I have noted that there is one gift in charismatic circles that is never appreciated and rarely seems to operate: discernment. When somebody does use it, be assured it is met with fierce opposition nowadays). May the Lord bless you and give you strength and wisdom to keep up the good work.
To be fair, there has been and is a remnant within pentecostalism who do exercise discernment and not afraid to speak out against aberrant unBiblical teachings and practices. Names like BH Clendennen, David Wilkerson, Joseph Chambers, Philip Powell and Bill Randles spring to mind and who I have a lot of respect for. You are right in stating that in terms of influence on the wider movement, they are very much voices crying in the wilderness.
Yes, I would like more episodes on the split! And thank you for all you do. This information is fascinating and answers a lot of questions (while creating at least as many more!) about why things are as they are. God's blessings, y'all.
Thank you so much for these podcasts. It all underscores how a big part of discernment is understanding the history behind doctrines. I'm currently teaching Adult Sunday School at church and it's time to present an earful of this history. I believe it will help unmask the 5 Fold Office ministry falicy.
Outstanding research and reporting.! This one vid answers many, many questions I’ve had regarding the origins of so much of the Pentecostal teaching I grew up hearing and believing.! Our family attended countless tent meetings, conventions, revivals and church services during these decades, and I recognize most of the names you mention. Y’all’s research and reporting is proving invaluable to me as I’m de-constructing and eliminating many of the false beliefs I’ve inherited from generations of Kool-Aid drinkers! TY again!
I can remember some of those people. I remember sitting in the tabernacle when I was just a little girl, and I remember how much my mom hated Oral Roberts and Gordon Lindsey. After church, the people would talk about how terrible they were, and how God was going to punish them for rejecting the prophet.
Well your story Is important in all of this...Oral Robert's was word of faith too so when u think about it all of us in one way or another got played lol..But JESUS is ironing it all out like he promised for all those who belong to him who want tbe truth...He us tbe Spirit of truth and he's leading those who are his and he knows who will listen now and those who will wake up in tbe future...So we pray for all lost, all cults, all false doctrine...The Lord is faithful and is proving so constantly
Interesting that all this splintering back then over doctrine has now come full circle with charismata now reincorporating many of these same doctrines in various forms.
I’m so glad you have been covering the history of Gordon Lindsey. My husband (before I knew him) attended Lindsey’s school Christ for the Nations in Dallas in the 1970s.
There are lots people who still consider Gordon Lindsey such Godly, wonderful person! I heard a video by this guy and he was bragging on the fact that he was friends with Lindsey, to him it was something to be so proud of!!
What do you know about her, I'm so curious! I never knew there were any female leaders connected to WMB, then I found out about Bernice Hicks, and now today, Myrtle Beal, and in an earlier video, WMBs connection to Aimee Simple McPhereson. Was Ma Beal the pastor of the church?
We started going to Bethesda Christian Church in ‘89 when the new sanctuary opened up. The sons Harry and Jim Beall were the pastors then. The church I remember was very organized and although they spoke in tongues they had an interpreter and also the prophesy was scripture based. Everything was done decently and in order. My mom took the founders class and we still have the yearbooks with old pictures from the ‘30’s. I was shocked to learn that they were part of the cult and they even invited Jim Jones to speak at the tabernacle.
Thanks for making this!! So fascinating and so much information!! They always made it seem like WMB stood alone and was the only one who knew all the stuff he taught and it all came directly from God to the prophet and then he preached it to us! And now we find out, no, he was one of many! Talk about manipulation!!
Wow! I just remembered something that Erwin Lutzer, Pastor Emeritus of Moody Church in Chicago shared several years ago. His family was part of a Latter Rain Pentecostal church in Canada when he was a young boy. One of the visiting, "prophets", told them that his mother would die within a certain period (a year, maybe), and it put their family in a state of fear! No, she did not die. I am Charismatic myself, and when I heard that story, I thought, "Well, I guess that I can understand why he isn't currently a Pentecostal ". That leaves a bad taste in your mouth. No doubt!
This actually a totally fascinating and very critical discussion and data for any of us who've been at all involved in the Pentecostal/Charismatic emovements... More than anything, this history just shows how very human all of this is despite all the hoopla by these grifting, fleshly leaders of so much of this stuff Along with other experiences, such knowledge is the source of my dark cynicism for what so much religion is really all about
I would love to hear you speak more about the splinter groups and other associated charismatic/Pentecostal groups, should your videos go that way. I have come out of the Assemblies of God after I researched the root established in Arkansas. Also: do you have any graphs that would show how the groups splintered off (and when)?
Yes. I’m wondering how or if the COG is connected at some point. I know they have been kinda “out of control” with their doctrine and have their “Heroes” too. They speak of Azusa Street and other things. I think most Pentecostalism traces back to the same place. Not sure what organizations were directly tied at some point to WMB. I keep hoping to make a connection. They all have the same people they put on pedestals.
Another interesting episode, thank you! I also appreciate your book recommendations, I checked out "The new charismatics" by Moriarty, it's really good and eye-opening. And yes, as you mentioned, a whole episode about the fivefold ministry topic would be very interesting!
I never would have suspected Derek Prince was up to no good. I wonder how a person can learn about this stuff in a slightly more specific way. I got saved in a charismatic church, so I’ve heard about some of this stuff as if it were a positive history of church history. My friend being in the message brought me here, but it looks like there’s some information about less obvious people than WMB that I could benefit from. There’s so much to grasp…
Friend, I have been in mainline denominations and in charismatic churches. My 2 cents is that churches that fear monger and focus on demonic activity (just like Derek Prince did) that it is an unhealthy church
I am a Canadian who, over the years, have wondered about preachers from the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand who have ended up in the USA. I wonder if they were led by the Holy Spirit to come to the USA or if the fame and money were greater in the USA.
@@jknga5869 Over the years Canada has produced some flaky preachers who have moved to the USA. People such as Aimee Semple McPherson, Charles Templeton, Benny Hinn, and Todd Bentley.
Charles, John, . Thank you for another great episode of your research. Branham claims he got his revelation from God. My question to his followers is why there is all this sub cult and splinters group between his so-called revelation from God. All the prophets in the bible that God has spoken to carry a perfect message with no confusion.
A good friend of mine … her mother’s babysitter went to Guyana as a cult member w/Jones … my friend’s mom ALMOST sent her 3 children WITH the babysitter to Guyana. Of COURSE my friend’s mom had NO idea or understanding that it was an evil, non Christian cult … the babysitter perished w/the cult 😢😢😢
I have relatives that live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada that are in a William Branham cult. It’s nicknamed “Jesus Only” by those on the outside. It’s so tough to talk about the truth of scripture with any of them, because they read the bible through the lens of WB and will constantly say “Brother Branham said this and Brother Branham said that.” They rarely talk about Jesus. I’d love some tips on how to talk about the true God of the bible. I’d also like to hear how the two of you got out of these cults? Are there links to your stories?
It's funny. I was raised in a message church but got out when I was 24. However I am now a part of the group "The Body of Christ" which started with William Sowders. I once went to The Mormon Tabernacle Choir concert and when they came out afterwards it was cringe because they kept referring to our prophet about everything and I told my sister in law "sounds like what we grew up in.". I would be interested in any research you gather on The Body of Christ not Assembly of the Body. These are 2 different groups however Paul Dyal was in The Body of Christ but changed the church name to Assembly of the Body right before that came out.
I live near Edmonton Alberta and am a homeschool facilitator for some families from this cult. I so appreciate this information as I get to know them better. I am praying so much for them.
Branhams discernment was so horrible ! How can he be the greatest prophet, and yet condoned Jim Jones, who slaughtered hundreds Branham empowered and spoke highly of the tape boys who molested and beat and raped children. This is a fact not a conspiracy you will see in the upcoming episodes. Why would the self proclaimed seventh age messenger be such a horrible judge of character and flip-flop on every major topic from the Trinity to the mark of the beast he condoned beating women with two by fours and blistering women’s backs to they can’t put a shirt on Jesus came to free. Please do your research.
You two are a phenomenal job! Thorugh research and dynamic presentation! Just a question about a small detail: you mention that nobody spoke about "the Rapture" before The Latter Rain. I have seen others trace "The Rapture" doctrine back to John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Before I learned about British Israelism from you, I assumed pentecost always held to the dispensational teachings of Darby, because that is what most pentecostals hold to today. Will you touch on John Nelson Darby at all in this podcast?
Thanks for the feedback. You are correct, rapture teachings do not originate in latter rain. What what we were referring to specifically, is the idea that, it's going to take a special set of preachers helping people achieve a special state, to then bring on the rapture. In other words, the rapture is dependent on the church reaching a certain level of restoration or perfection or christ likeness. That is a latter rain concept. In regards to Darby, British Isrealism incorporated alot of his ideas. And Pentecostalism did adopt a lot of Darby's ideas, but they did it generally via British Israelism or adventism, and not directly from the Brethren groups.
@@Charles-Paisley Just for the record! Most of the church fathers in the first 3 centuries after Christ taught a PRE tribulation rapture. This is the character of God right through the Bible, a place of safety before wrath. Enoch, Noah, Lot, the Hebrews in Egypt. And since there is no place of safety on earth during the tribulation, the church will be taken up by Christ at the rapture.
At 1:11 John makes the most compelling statement about the messages of Branham being so incoherent - internally inconsistent - that the Message cult always has one set of followers battling the other set of followers... If we simply review what so-called Christianity looks like, what do we see?? Yup, one set of followers battling another set of followers all referencing the same data source - what is properly called the Bible... I guess that would be a pretty big clue wouldn't it...
35:50 "Getting people ready for the rapture - is a latter rain concept that flows out from Manifest Sons of God. The whole idea of a certain people, gotta get to a certain state, for the end of days scenario... that is latter rain." (Para)
Getting people ready for the rapture is not an element of the Message. Baptist's have been teaching the rapture of the church for much longer than the time that William Branham was here. Their teaching is not that the rapture will be brought about by nans effort, but rather that Jesus Christ will come again and rapture His church.
You were meant to see this deception in the message...I prayed that the Lord would anoint my eyes with eye salve in scripture to see the truth and I didn't even know why I prayed this I the message church because when I prayed this I didn't have any idea the message was false yet...The Lord is so wise and faithful
Have you heard of a Rev. Ricky Branham who signed a contract with Oral Roberts in 2021? TH-cam won’t let me post the link but the similarities are interesting and I am curious if there is a relation. His grandparents are from eastern Ky and he talks about angel visitations and bright lights surrounding his in his early life.
@@BC-qb2if yes, I believe it’s Oral Roberts evangelist association, which is ran by his son. I’m wondering if Ricky Branham is a relation to William Branham.
I heard Derek Prince say that William Branham had a different spirit (demon), whatever that means. The sermon is still available here on youtube under the title: is it possible to have the Holy spirit and another spirit?
I've listened to that before. I think it's really twisted what Derek Prince does there. So William Branham has both a holy spirit and an evil spirit in it? I really don't think that's a biblical position you can take. It seems really contrary to even what Jesus said. A house divided against itself. Or, sweet and bitter water coming from the same well. And I think that really goes to the root of what's wrong with Derek Prince, he's willing to make these excuses. I think if I saw a demon in someone, I would have warned everybody. It's kind of convenient, but Derek Prince never told anybody that till after William Branham was dead and the cult was moving along.
@jackinthebox53 True. I think Mr Prince was a soft-spoken deceiver. If he truly believed that WMB had a demon, why didn't he exorcize it? Why didn't he blow the trumpet and warned the world about it?
@@lydiegloire7744 Prince although he was an erudite, even tempered, upper class Englishman was as much of a deceiver as Branham. He was the founding father of the modern day 'deliverance' movement with his way out extra Biblical teachings in demonology and what has wrought spiritual abuse of immense proportions just like the shepherding movement he was a prominent leader in. Also, not sound on the basic saving Gospel either and held that a truly born again believer could forfeit their salvation and end up lost. One to mark and avoid big style and I doubt he ever knew the Saviour.
Does any one know the lady named Myrtle, that john called Ma something? Her full name? I would like to find out more about her. It always amazes.me that there were female leaders! Thanks!
The only Branham message that ever impressed me was his trip to heaven where he met his old hound dog. The rest of his stuff just came off as disconnected ramblings. His reruns were on the radio in Atlanta back in the day I might get more out of it now. The best were Hagin and Shambach... Jerry Fallwel with his stupid bricks for sale was the worst. I lliked Bob Larson even though it was half fundraising.
All tongues today are gibberish and prophets today are 99.9 percent wrong.. I have $10,000 for the first charismatic that can raise Kathy kuhlman from the dead 😢😅
Good question! What it reminds me of is all those false prophets who set dates for the return of the Lord and then when it doesn't happen, he tells his followers that Lord was merciful and didn't come because they weren't ready. Isn't interesting--the Lord didn't come because YOU were ready, you lost your healing because YOU didn't have enough faith. It's always the people's fault, never the so called prophet's fault. Talk about victim blaming and shaming!!
Latter rain introduced the concept that the return of Christ and the rapture is dependent upon the church achieving some special state. In other words, until the church is ready, Christ will not return. And so there's this whole program to get the church ready for the rapture. I hope that makes sense. This is part of the manifested sons of God teachings.
@@Charles-Paisley I have a friend that is still a Charismatic. He still gets caught up in the date setting posted by others on TH-cam. He will always lament that no one is holding a revival in the area, with the anointed pastors to bless the others. A revival couldn't be initiated by such a person as himself because he didn't have enough of an anointing.
You guys make this history even more interesting than it already is. Great work, you're my heroes for creating these videos
Glad you like them!
I totally agree!! John and Charles are heroes!!
@@LeavingtheMessage I love them!!
This is so sobering. I listen to this and it makes me think deeply about our natures. Look how God gave one revelation to Israel and by the time of the Messiah there were dozens of sect each the polar opposite of the other. It teaches us something about ourselves that we are not bringing into focus in these discussions- Sin. Humans have pride and always try to exert the influence unduly.
Even look at how the law which was meant for the good of the nation of Israel because of pride led to their downfall. It is amazing!
We too are in danger of the same errors as they if we do not walk humble and set the Lord constantly before our face. We are prone to making the reaction to an error the WAY which in turns becomes the new error. That's so in agreement with Paul's take on things when he calls the 'partisan spirit', dissimulation, strife to be all works of the flesh which Satan uses very skillfully to fight against the people of God.
Let us in addition to pointing out the errors of these men be extremely diligent that we do not fall after their example.
YES PLEASE ! We need an episode on the '5 fold ministry' .
Yes, please.
Keep up the good work brothers
These videos are so amazing once you realize how much time, effort, and research goes into finding all this information. I needed that feeling Charles provided when he stated, "I think if I keep going, Imma end up having to preach a sermon!" It's understandable the amount of emotion, which has to be suppressed while delivering these messages to the public.
Growing up in a pentecostal/full gospel environment in the fifties and sixties, it is fascinating to get such insights in so many names that I used to hear and later read about. This is a great work you are doing and important for anyone to takes discernment seriously. (I have noted that there is one gift in charismatic circles that is never appreciated and rarely seems to operate: discernment. When somebody does use it, be assured it is met with fierce opposition nowadays). May the Lord bless you and give you strength and wisdom to keep up the good work.
To be fair, there has been and is a remnant within pentecostalism who do exercise discernment and not afraid to speak out against aberrant unBiblical teachings and practices. Names like BH Clendennen, David Wilkerson, Joseph Chambers, Philip Powell and Bill Randles spring to mind and who I have a lot of respect for. You are right in stating that in terms of influence on the wider movement, they are very much voices crying in the wilderness.
All prophets today are 99.9 percent wrong and tongues today are gibberish
I've experienced the wrath when I used discernment. I finally left an NAR charismatic church
Yes, I would like more episodes on the split! And thank you for all you do. This information is fascinating and answers a lot of questions (while creating at least as many more!) about why things are as they are. God's blessings, y'all.
Great episode! You guys are explaining what happened really well.
EXCELLENT EPISODE!!!!
Thank you so much for these podcasts. It all underscores how a big part of discernment is understanding the history behind doctrines. I'm currently teaching Adult Sunday School at church and it's time to present an earful of this history. I believe it will help unmask the 5 Fold Office ministry falicy.
Outstanding research and reporting.! This one vid answers many, many questions I’ve had regarding the origins of so much of the Pentecostal teaching I grew up hearing and believing.! Our family attended countless tent meetings, conventions, revivals and church services during these decades, and I recognize most of the names you mention. Y’all’s research and reporting is proving invaluable to me as I’m de-constructing and eliminating many of the false beliefs I’ve inherited from generations of Kool-Aid drinkers! TY again!
This MUST in teology schools
I can remember some of those people. I remember sitting in the tabernacle when I was just a little girl, and I remember how much my mom hated Oral Roberts and Gordon Lindsey. After church, the people would talk about how terrible they were, and how God was going to punish them for rejecting the prophet.
That's really interesting!
Well your story Is important in all of this...Oral Robert's was word of faith too so when u think about it all of us in one way or another got played lol..But JESUS is ironing it all out like he promised for all those who belong to him who want tbe truth...He us tbe Spirit of truth and he's leading those who are his and he knows who will listen now and those who will wake up in tbe future...So we pray for all lost, all cults, all false doctrine...The Lord is faithful and is proving so constantly
@@stephenmartel6417 Amen!!!!
Isolation equals holiness!!! Brilliant point of cult orientation.
Interesting that all this splintering back then over doctrine has now come full circle with charismata now reincorporating many of these same doctrines in various forms.
I’m so glad you have been covering the history of Gordon Lindsey. My husband (before I knew him) attended Lindsey’s school Christ for the Nations in Dallas in the 1970s.
There are lots people who still consider Gordon Lindsey such Godly, wonderful person! I heard a video by this guy and he was bragging on the fact that he was friends with Lindsey, to him it was something to be so proud of!!
I did too in the early eighties
I did too in the early eighties
Thank you for all of this excellent research. I love your work. We attended the Bethesda (Ma Beal) church, in Detroit for 20 years.
What do you know about her, I'm so curious! I never knew there were any female leaders connected to WMB, then I found out about Bernice Hicks, and now today, Myrtle Beal, and in an earlier video, WMBs connection to Aimee Simple McPhereson. Was Ma Beal the pastor of the church?
We started going to Bethesda Christian Church in ‘89 when the new sanctuary opened up. The sons Harry and Jim Beall were the pastors then. The church I remember was very organized and although they spoke in tongues they had an interpreter and also the prophesy was scripture based. Everything was done decently and in order. My mom took the founders class and we still have the yearbooks with old pictures from the ‘30’s. I was shocked to learn that they were part of the cult and they even invited Jim Jones to speak at the tabernacle.
Yes. She was the preacher at the Bethesda Tabernacle.
Thanks for making this!! So fascinating and so much information!! They always made it seem like WMB stood alone and was the only one who knew all the stuff he taught and it all came directly from God to the prophet and then he preached it to us! And now we find out, no, he was one of many! Talk about manipulation!!
Wow! I just remembered something that Erwin Lutzer, Pastor Emeritus of Moody Church in Chicago shared several years ago. His family was part of a Latter Rain Pentecostal church in Canada when he was a young boy. One of the visiting, "prophets", told them that his mother would die within a certain period (a year, maybe), and it put their family in a state of fear! No, she did not die. I am Charismatic myself, and when I heard that story, I thought, "Well, I guess that I can understand why he isn't currently a Pentecostal ". That leaves a bad taste in your mouth. No doubt!
This actually a totally fascinating and very critical discussion and data for any of us who've been at all involved in the Pentecostal/Charismatic emovements...
More than anything, this history just shows how very human all of this is despite all the hoopla by these grifting, fleshly leaders of so much of this stuff
Along with other experiences, such knowledge is the source of my dark cynicism for what so much religion is really all about
I would love to hear you speak more about the splinter groups and other associated charismatic/Pentecostal groups, should your videos go that way.
I have come out of the Assemblies of God after I researched the root established in Arkansas.
Also: do you have any graphs that would show how the groups splintered off (and when)?
That would be great!!
Yes. I’m wondering how or if the COG is connected at some point. I know they have been kinda “out of control” with their doctrine and have their “Heroes” too. They speak of Azusa Street and other things. I think most Pentecostalism traces back to the same place. Not sure what organizations were directly tied at some point to WMB. I keep hoping to make a connection. They all have the same people they put on pedestals.
@@ritadyer9295 That would very interesting to find out!
@@ritadyer9295 the COG predates the Azusa Street Revival. It was established in the late 1800s.
Another interesting episode, thank you! I also appreciate your book recommendations, I checked out "The new charismatics" by Moriarty, it's really good and eye-opening. And yes, as you mentioned, a whole episode about the fivefold ministry topic would be very interesting!
I never would have suspected Derek Prince was up to no good. I wonder how a person can learn about this stuff in a slightly more specific way. I got saved in a charismatic church, so I’ve heard about some of this stuff as if it were a positive history of church history. My friend being in the message brought me here, but it looks like there’s some information about less obvious people than WMB that I could benefit from. There’s so much to grasp…
Friend, I have been in mainline denominations and in charismatic churches. My 2 cents is that churches that fear monger and focus on demonic activity (just like Derek Prince did) that it is an unhealthy church
I am a Canadian who, over the years, have wondered about preachers from the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand who have ended up in the USA. I wonder if they were led by the Holy Spirit to come to the USA or if the fame and money were greater in the USA.
@@roberteaston6413 A God vine will produce good fruit, a bad vine will produce bad fruit.
@@jknga5869 Over the years Canada has produced some flaky preachers who have moved to the USA. People such as Aimee Semple McPherson, Charles Templeton, Benny Hinn, and Todd Bentley.
@@roberteaston6413 I agree. Probably in the search of bigger crowds and more money
Charles, John, . Thank you for another great episode of your research. Branham claims he got his revelation from God. My question to his followers is why there is all this sub cult and splinters group between his so-called revelation from God. All the prophets in the bible that God has spoken to carry a perfect message with no confusion.
A good friend of mine … her mother’s babysitter went to Guyana as a cult member w/Jones … my friend’s mom ALMOST sent her 3 children WITH the babysitter to Guyana. Of COURSE my friend’s mom had NO idea or understanding that it was an evil, non Christian cult … the babysitter perished w/the cult 😢😢😢
That’s so sad.
My condolences.
✅ very good episode
I have relatives that live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada that are in a William Branham cult. It’s nicknamed “Jesus Only” by those on the outside. It’s so tough to talk about the truth of scripture with any of them, because they read the bible through the lens of WB and will constantly say “Brother Branham said this and Brother Branham said that.” They rarely talk about Jesus. I’d love some tips on how to talk about the true God of the bible.
I’d also like to hear how the two of you got out of these cults? Are there links to your stories?
It's funny. I was raised in a message church but got out when I was 24. However I am now a part of the group "The Body of Christ" which started with William Sowders. I once went to The Mormon Tabernacle Choir concert and when they came out afterwards it was cringe because they kept referring to our prophet about everything and I told my sister in law "sounds like what we grew up in.". I would be interested in any research you gather on The Body of Christ not Assembly of the Body. These are 2 different groups however Paul Dyal was in The Body of Christ but changed the church name to Assembly of the Body right before that came out.
I live near Edmonton Alberta and am a homeschool facilitator for some families from this cult. I so appreciate this information as I get to know them better. I am praying so much for them.
Branhams discernment was so horrible ! How can he be the greatest prophet, and yet condoned Jim Jones, who slaughtered hundreds
Branham empowered and spoke highly of the tape boys who molested and beat and raped children. This is a fact not a conspiracy you will see in the upcoming episodes.
Why would the self proclaimed seventh age messenger be such a horrible judge of character
and flip-flop on every major topic from the Trinity to the mark of the beast he condoned beating women with two by fours and blistering women’s backs to they can’t put a shirt on
Jesus came to free. Please do your research.
You two are a phenomenal job! Thorugh research and dynamic presentation! Just a question about a small detail: you mention that nobody spoke about "the Rapture" before The Latter Rain. I have seen others trace "The Rapture" doctrine back to John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Before I learned about British Israelism from you, I assumed pentecost always held to the dispensational teachings of Darby, because that is what most pentecostals hold to today. Will you touch on John Nelson Darby at all in this podcast?
Thanks for the feedback. You are correct, rapture teachings do not originate in latter rain. What what we were referring to specifically, is the idea that, it's going to take a special set of preachers helping people achieve a special state, to then bring on the rapture. In other words, the rapture is dependent on the church reaching a certain level of restoration or perfection or christ likeness. That is a latter rain concept.
In regards to Darby, British Isrealism incorporated alot of his ideas. And Pentecostalism did adopt a lot of Darby's ideas, but they did it generally via British Israelism or adventism, and not directly from the Brethren groups.
@@Charles-Paisley Just for the record! Most of the church fathers in the first 3 centuries after Christ taught a PRE tribulation rapture. This is the character of God right through the Bible, a place of safety before wrath. Enoch, Noah, Lot, the Hebrews in Egypt. And since there is no place of safety on earth during the tribulation, the church will be taken up by Christ at the rapture.
" Thus sayeth the BS of William Branham " from the writings of The Scandal Skirt 2023 👗
At 1:11 John makes the most compelling statement about the messages of Branham being so incoherent - internally inconsistent - that the Message cult always has one set of followers battling the other set of followers...
If we simply review what so-called Christianity looks like, what do we see?? Yup, one set of followers battling another set of followers all referencing the same data source - what is properly called the Bible...
I guess that would be a pretty big clue wouldn't it...
35:50 "Getting people ready for the rapture - is a latter rain concept that flows out from Manifest Sons of God. The whole idea of a certain people, gotta get to a certain state, for the end of days scenario... that is latter rain." (Para)
Getting people ready for the rapture is not an element of the Message. Baptist's have been teaching the rapture of the church for much longer than the time that William Branham was here. Their teaching is not that the rapture will be brought about by nans effort, but rather that Jesus Christ will come again and rapture His church.
You were meant to see this deception in the message...I prayed that the Lord would anoint my eyes with eye salve in scripture to see the truth and I didn't even know why I prayed this I the message church because when I prayed this I didn't have any idea the message was false yet...The Lord is so wise and faithful
Amen!
We used to have a cult kind of near Atlanta on the radio that was very pro Branham. They got into trouble for not sending the kids to school.
I would like 1st episode to last in book form and DVD so how does it happen.
Have you heard of a Rev. Ricky Branham who signed a contract with Oral Roberts in 2021? TH-cam won’t let me post the link but the similarities are interesting and I am curious if there is a relation. His grandparents are from eastern Ky and he talks about angel visitations and bright lights surrounding his in his early life.
Funny because Branham hated name Ricki. It is forbidden in message to name a child like that
Would it be with his son? Oral Roberts passed away in 2009.
@@BC-qb2if yes, I believe it’s Oral Roberts evangelist association, which is ran by his son. I’m wondering if Ricky Branham is a relation to William Branham.
I heard Derek Prince say that William Branham had a different spirit (demon), whatever that means. The sermon is still available here on youtube under the title: is it possible to have the Holy spirit and another spirit?
I've listened to that before. I think it's really twisted what Derek Prince does there. So William Branham has both a holy spirit and an evil spirit in it? I really don't think that's a biblical position you can take. It seems really contrary to even what Jesus said. A house divided against itself. Or, sweet and bitter water coming from the same well. And I think that really goes to the root of what's wrong with Derek Prince, he's willing to make these excuses. I think if I saw a demon in someone, I would have warned everybody. It's kind of convenient, but Derek Prince never told anybody that till after William Branham was dead and the cult was moving along.
@jackinthebox53 True. I think Mr Prince was a soft-spoken deceiver.
If he truly believed that WMB had a demon, why didn't he exorcize it?
Why didn't he blow the trumpet and warned the world about it?
True
@@lydiegloire7744
Prince although he was an erudite, even tempered, upper class Englishman was as much of a deceiver as Branham. He was the founding father of the modern day 'deliverance' movement with his way out extra Biblical teachings in demonology and what has wrought spiritual abuse of immense proportions just like the shepherding movement he was a prominent leader in. Also, not sound on the basic saving Gospel either and held that a truly born again believer could forfeit their salvation and end up lost. One to mark and avoid big style and I doubt he ever knew the Saviour.
29:33 Is this the same James Watt who went on to become Secretary of the Interior in the Reagan Administration?
No.
Does any one know the lady named Myrtle, that john called Ma something? Her full name? I would like to find out more about her. It always amazes.me that there were female leaders! Thanks!
Myrtle Beal I think.
@@jackinthebox53 Thank you so much!
The only Branham message that ever impressed me was his trip to heaven where he met his old hound dog. The rest of his stuff just came off as disconnected ramblings. His reruns were on the radio in Atlanta back in the day I might get more out of it now. The best were Hagin and Shambach... Jerry Fallwel with his stupid bricks for sale was the worst. I lliked Bob Larson even though it was half fundraising.
All tongues today are gibberish and prophets today are 99.9 percent wrong..
I have $10,000 for the first charismatic that can raise Kathy kuhlman from the dead 😢😅
@charlespaisley4071 The term "getting ready for the rapture," does that require a revival to get the people ready?
Good question! What it reminds me of is all those false prophets who set dates for the return of the Lord and then when it doesn't happen, he tells his followers that Lord was merciful and didn't come because they weren't ready. Isn't interesting--the Lord didn't come because YOU were ready, you lost your healing because YOU didn't have enough faith. It's always the people's fault, never the so called prophet's fault. Talk about victim blaming and shaming!!
Latter rain introduced the concept that the return of Christ and the rapture is dependent upon the church achieving some special state. In other words, until the church is ready, Christ will not return. And so there's this whole program to get the church ready for the rapture. I hope that makes sense. This is part of the manifested sons of God teachings.
@@Charles-Paisley Wow, I never realized that! That is so unscriptural! Thanks, Charles!
@@Charles-Paisley I have a friend that is still a Charismatic. He still gets caught up in the date setting posted by others on TH-cam. He will always lament that no one is holding a revival in the area, with the anointed pastors to bless the others. A revival couldn't be initiated by such a person as himself because he didn't have enough of an anointing.
The Shepparding movement came out of the church growth movement in fort Lauderdale way later.
Thus saith the Lord never failed
What does NAR stand for?
New Apostolic Reformation
The 2 of u are fullfilling Daten And Corra's ministry....