You've got to hand it to the Germans, they abide by the rules, but when they don't, they go all in. That was an incredible legal case, massive respect to Zakspeed.
People have the nerve to compare it to the Audi Transam and to slag American Racing Series, However that car was factory backed and was made with 4 times the budget of what privateer teams were capable of amassing, these lot don't even mention the Porsche RSR and 935. German racing series are far more notorious for their "balancing" acts even against neighboring European nations manufacturers. One thing I noticed about german backed racing teams too are that their manufacturers can't seem to win without spending ludicrous amounts of money in a Racing Program, hence why everyone was going broke fighting Porsche and Audi in the 80s and 90s until they caught up with half the budget and the latter 2 manufacturers would leave, hence why they're soo protected in Germany. Mercedes in F1 for the past decade didn't engineer its way to dominance, it Spent 4 upwards to 7 times the budget of Haas to win, and only saving grace they have is that F1 didn't do anything about it until the 2021 ruleset and Budget Cap.
@@youngrody2386Was just an good example against stupid german or nation bashing. You can find such cases everywhere if youre looking for. I never understood that nation clownery. Whats the point of it? Im glad at the ring there is or was only a little fanboy thing. We all loved the cars and every winner was applauded. Copying is always cheaper than innovating. Or in some cases just banning it. (IMSA) Audi was winning on an innovation called AWD. Porsche was always top notch in sport car racing and the most sucessful brand in sports car racing history. And good politics was always a factor too, thar for sure. Yes and you will allways find a david who defeat the goliath but thats an exception You deny that the Mercedes engine was an absolut masterpiece of engineering? That fucking thing won the WC 2 years nearly on its own and made the f1 more boring than ever. And on if you have such an advantage you will in most cases conserve it to the next rule change. Ferrari spent the same money also red bull did. Toyota had the biggest budget in the past and won nothing. In the F1 you need the top notch engineers. And they are limited.
@@youngrody2386 The RSRs, 935s and 962s were private entries (most of the time) and not factory backed. Talking about the 935s, why was the introduction of them into the IMSA delayed by 2 years? John Bishop was scared that 1974 and 1975 would repeat. Same thing in 1982 with the introduction of the Group C and IMSA GTP rules, Bishop was scared that manufacturers would take over making it impossible for privateers to be competetive so he ditched the Group C fuel formula for the IMSA GTP to drive down the costs. Thats the same thing that happened to the Viper in the NLS. The NLS was a touring car series since its inception running Group 1 and 2 cars, later on Group N and A. After Group A rules ran out in 1992 they were using Class II cars (Supertourers). Suddenly in 1999 the Viper, a full blown GT1 car, appears in a field consisting of Class II cars and below which arent comparable to the Viper. To save the privateer nature of the NLS the Viper gets bopped to hell and back but even then its still significantly faster than most of the field using cheaper equipment. Other privateer teams now have to spend even more and bring NGT and Class 1 cars or stuff like the Turbinchen and now you have manufacturers like BMW joining as well driving the costs even higher killing off any privateer ambitions. Or to put it in your words, an ex F1 Team joined a field of privateers and brought one of the most expensive and advanced cars money could buy to dominate the field. The organizers should have done what Bishop did and ban the Viper (or any GT1 car) before it even arrived at the race track.
@MCA Geeff Lol, AWD is not an innovation of Audi. In fact, AWD was banned in rally because of a large American SUV beating European rally cars. Audi just bribed the FIA to allow AWD back into rally.
@@johncarl5505 The innovation was to build it light enough and usable to get an advantage in racing. And that was in racing an innovation. The AWD was legalized in 1979 before Audi hit the competiton with its AWD quattro. The competiton just thought it was too complex and too heavy solution.
It was necessary at the end. The car was too dominant for the race in the past. in some years 35-40s faster than anyone. And it was really boring to watch. And the lap times showed that the 2003 Viper was well balanced within the competition in 2003. With a tank of lets say 105 Liters it would have been a perfect match up with the Audis BMWs and Opels.
its not really any different from today it was just the early days before strict balance of performance rules. Today nobody gets 500kg of ballast because the manufacturers know it doesnt make sense to build the car too light because you will only add it back as ballast later if the car is too dominant.
To be fair, the E46 GTR got a similar ordeal from Porsche so it makes sense BMW would be more understanding of Zakspeed's situation. At least in the end, for both cars, the regulatory shenanigans resulted in them both being elevated to a sort of legendary status, leaving all of us to wonder what they could've achieved had history been different.
The problem with the E46 M3 GTR was that it had no production equivalent, unlike the 996 911 GT3 R. That’s what Porsche’s complaint was. Corvette Racing had the same attitude towards the Saleen S7-R, to which Steve Saleen responded by saying that the demand for the race car was greater than for the road car, so he simply built those first. Other teams could’ve fielded GT cars at the Nurburgring 24 Hours, but they didn’t. That’s their problem, not Zakspeed’s.
@@FlashoftheBladesthe difference between corvette/ Saleen and BMW and Porsche is that It wasn't a technical rule. It was a gentleman/ unspoken rule. However when corvette complain , it was a technical rule.
Even after doing alot of research and making my own video about it i still end up learning more stuff. I didnt know about the whole legal side of it, that would have been one spectacular court case. Excellent video once again.
And they would have lost... Changing the name of a thing, doesnt change the thing. Cheating is cheating. But its funny how the Viper is always the victim. Its hard to fit an 8.4-something liter engine into any kind of racing league. Whether its Europe or the US. And not because the Viper was "too good" either. It was never a successful car at any point in its 30 years existance.
@@captain_context9991 Yes that was feeling about it arround the track in 2003. Nearly nobody liked that Zak thing at the Ring. And the crowd showed that with banners against Zak and thumbs down at Sunday morning in television.
@@captain_context9991 german fanboy here, Viper was never a succesful car in 30 years lmao what a clown. Fritzs shit their pants whenever they see Viper on track, even modern GT3 Viper wasn't allowed to run lol. I doubt they will allow Ferrari 296 GT3 to compete next year without some +200 kg ballast, they can't stand any proper competetion. Basing car class on simply engine size is beyond any stupidity, it's a lot more complicated, and at the time for sure there wasn't any specific rules - manufacturers could easily turbocharged their engines and be on par with power.
@@samdajellybeenie14 while I agree it was definitely a power move, I can sort of see the safety dangers of carrying a 90 LITER FUEL TANK full of gasoline from the paddock into a car and then reattaching the fuel system, I mean there's a reason nobody does that anywhere
Overlooking how awfully unfair this entire thing was - it is probably the most hilarious motorsport story I've heard. The fuel tank was wild but the changing of the name to skip the regulations was genius
Very interesting! My only experience with Zakspeed was when I paid them 280 E for a lap around the Ring. When I showed up on the right day at the right time, no one from Zakspeed was anywhere to be found. They took my money, then stood me up. The track personnel said they hadn't paid their track fees and weren't allowed on track. I got my money back later, but on that day I paid for a lap with Andreas Gulden, in a racing Aston. We passed Sabine, which was a great accomplishment for Andreas, made his day. Later, I met Sabine! She was a great person, lovely lass...Her passing was great loss for us all.
So happy to see another Viper lover here, i appreciate the clearer context on the story, sometimes forget that not only F1 deals with politics in motorsports...
I didn't knew you had a Viper - great! My dream car. Great video on the GTS-R. I still think the 2003 N24 was won by Zakspeed, they won abiding the rules - the rules were basically just turned around within the race itself. There was never ever another car at the Ring that has lived through such lynching as the Viper had. It also has to be said that the Viper only got 8 cylinders in 2005, so they still ran 2004 on all ten cylinders.
@@coletrickIe Not in top speed on straights . The was a few cars well over 300 km/h in that time in 2003 like the Alzen Turbinchen 996 turbo. And really slow cars like Austin mini. Todays GT3 top out at best at 280-290km/h and only one Dacia that ist no longer with us.
@@Superstocker669 Youre not wrong but the really dangerous overtaking situations happen in the corners nowadays. The GT3 have so much corner speed compared to the slower non aero cars. On top of that in curvy sections a driver cant see as far ahead, maybe hes fighting another car that reduces his view forward even more so the danger just shifted i think.
And Europeans are always riding American cars as slow and poor handling vehicles. The Viper dominated many race tracks and events. What a beast and understated car.
When your car that's got 500kg of ballast is so competitive the regulators have to hand out completely arbitrary lap penalties after they realize the ballast, refueling and restrictor special regulations aren't enough to keep the Viper from winning. This was absolutely a massive stain on German motorsports history.
Thanks for sharing this story, this was my first time actually watching the 24h race so it was cool to learn about all its history. Can't wait to see your W14 video as well :)
Das hab ich damals Live mit erlebt! War eine schöne Zeit damals, als Mechaniker in einem kleinem Team :) Ich weiß noch wo die Viper den 1 Roll out hatte, komplett unlackiert - ein Schwarzes Monster !!! Das hat man im Boden gespürt wenn die an der Box vorbei geballert ist. Leider hab ich keine Fotos von damals. Tolles Video -Danke
a zakspeed viper... mad lads also just more proof that the viper is one the greatest platforms ever--dodge just rubbed their nuts over everyone with that car
Good question, early 90s DTM was very high performance and at the time even more expensive than F1. Audi‘s IMSA prototype and pikes peak are also very high performance with partly original body.
I guess it depends on whether or not you count GT1 in the mid to late 90ies. Those cars were capable of competing for outright Le Mans victory against prototypes, with chassis based on road cars. However, the road cars themselves were homologation specials with very limited production numbers. Basically the manufacturers secretly developed prototype race cars first, then built road versions of them so that they then could claim that the race cars were based on the road car model.
Love this story and all of the innovations needed to stay in the race and win even when the rules were written to specifically keep them down. Would you be willing to do a story or video on aero of Will Au-Yeung's car? It's a David vs. Goliath story where a small car beats all the other cars with clever aero and engineering. Example: ButtonWillow CW13 overall time attack record, Road Atlanta overall time attack record, NJMP overall time attack record, Ginerman Raceway overall time attack record, and the world’s fastest FF lap on Japan’s Tsukuba Circuit. Keep up the excellent work. Thanks!
Is there any relation between this and the Oreca Vipers? Or is it just a case of semi-parallel development, similar to the various Ferrari 550 which turned up in FIA GT? I didn't know the 2003 race was that preposterous!
From 1999. All of the racing GTSR Vipers came from Oreca customer program, they were the Factory race team for Chrysler, and had exclusive rights to parts and support Interesting to hear Pedro Lamy drove the Zackspeed Viper, as he was one of the early Oreca Viper drivers He also drove the ill-fated flipping Mercedes CLR, luckily his did not crash, super chill dude Their first win at Le Mans in #53, was Donahue / Bell / Drudi, in 1998 The car I crewed on, we were the 3rd car of the team, and not expected to win ;)
Its not really that preposterous.... They had to intervene and shut down THIS TEAM for forcing their hand and refusing the rules. If you dont comply, you dont race. Simple as that. But because its American, its always some kind of a victim complex.
Fantastic story! I never knew this and it’s very interesting. I too own a Viper and it’s a fantastic ownership experience. From North Carolina USA. I dream of the day I can come to Nurburgring and watch the 24hr race!
@@NinetyTresAnd it wasn’t even Pedro’s CLR that had those blowovers. Two of them were by the #4 of Jean Marc-Gounon, Marcel Tiemann and Mark Webber, while the third and only one to be caught on camera as it happened was the #5 of Christoph Bouchet, Peter Dumbreck and Nick Heidfeld. Lamy’s #6 CLR, which he shared with Frank Lagorce and Bernd Schneider, was the only CLR to not have a blowover.
The Viper is my all-time favorite car. I became a fan of the Zakspeed version after seeing the 2001 running on Speedvision and was absolutely pissed 😤 off over the treatment they got in 2003. If I was in the team boss’s position, I would’ve taken the case to the FIA and told the race organizers to go to Hell.
I used to have a Viper GTS (the only American car I’ve ever owned besides an old JEEP XJ). It was such wild fun to drive and beautiful. Steel grey with blue stripes.
The Zakspeed Viper being banned isn't the first time such a thing happened. Remember the Tom Walkinshaw Racing (TWR) Jaguar XJS that competed in the Group A European Touring Car Championship? That was treated pretty much the same way, as its then closest competitor, the BMW 635CSI, simply didn't stand a chance against it. Jaguar's 5.3liter V12 versus BMW's 3.5 liter inline-six was simply a joke and TWR easily won the championship until the car was banned.
Things get interesting when ppl are competitive, have an aerodynamics question, does the little round carbon strip on the front wheel arch reduce aero drag on the viper? Cheers, great video 👍
What kind of disgusting "competition" was this? Arbitrary special rules to hinder a specific competitor? Isn't something like this illegal pretty much everywhere? Is the Nürburgring 24H still an abomination like this?
It isn't anymore, now it has well defined, well regulated classes plus special classes for small teams that want to have some fun with something silly, it's pretty nice now
This was the qualifying result in really nice conditions in 2003 P # class team time 1. 2 A8 H&R Spezialfedern Porsche 996 Turbo (the famous "Turbinchen") 9.00,266 2. 12 A8 Manthey-Racing Porsche 996 Turbo 9.02,905 3. 6 E1 OPC Team Phoenix Opel Astra V8 Coupe 9.04,444 4. 1 A8 Zakspeed Team Fuji Dodge Viper 9.04,525 5. 42 E1 BMW Motorsport BMW M3 GTR E46 9.08,771 6. 5 E1 OPC Team Phoenix Opel Astra V8 Coupe 9.09,130 7. 43 E1 BMW Motorsport BMW M3 GTR E46 9.09,135 8. 8 E1 Abt Sportsline Abt-Audi TT-R 9.10,507 9. 7 E1 Abt Sportsline Abt-Audi TT-R 9.11,577 10. 10 A7 Scuderia Augustusburg BMW M3 E46 9.21,221
Whats your point, trying to show the viper wasnt the fastest car? Even if thats the case, the race goes 24h hours and laptime alone doesnt make a winner.
@@benistingray6097 No its just interesting for most people to get a little view whats going on at the weekend and what the pace was of the different car. The fastest car back than was with no doubt the "Alzen Turbinchen" Turbo Porsche. Yeah and its true lap time back than wasnt all compared to now. The Turbos were too thirsty to win for example and the Turbinchen not durable.
@@youngrody2386 Yes cause it had no competition. Especially before 2003. No question. There was no comparable car on grid. Im talking more of 2003 and ongoing here. In the VLN Championship the Turbinchen Porsche was at this point unbeatable in Speed. But that was a massive care. No compare to the average porsches. In some races it arrived with 15s advantage in the Brünnchen.
Its to mention that the raceversion viper is actually made by oreca and has not really much to do with chrysler or dodge. Zakspeed used this basis to then upgrade it for the 24h Nürburgring
Swapping a fuel tank is a genius idea and I'd argue safer then normal refueling, since you don't rely on a man who in a hurry can try to pull out a fuel gun nozzle too early and spray the whole car with petrol.
Ok so the problem was that the latest sport car designs of that time couldn't compete with an outdated platform so they tried everything to handicap it to the point where it's no longer competitive or bend the rules so it becomes illegal. My rhetorical question here, even if one manages to rule Vipers out of the race, what does victory worth? What slogan does it make, like _I'm the best, when no Vipers are around that is_ ? As a customer, will it make me buy that brand?
This is a similar story to how Offenhauser / Miller racing engines was severely handicapped after dominating motor sports in the US for 50yrs…The big 3 US automakers had them severely handicapped a 1.5L handicap under their competitors bc they couldn’t make a better motor to compete so they just bought off the racing boards to change the rules to make it impossible for Offy to win
I wish the FIA did the same with Mercedes in those 8 Years of completely Dominance! This Nerfs of the Viper are ridiculous. Only Because the German Vehicles couldn't keep up with it...
so, this wasnt the green gas-powered viper, used by titus some years ago? i always thought its the same car but they changed it from normal fuel to gas...
Nobody took the Viper serious when it first showed up on the track Then it evolved a little Heaven forbid other manufactures try to make cars that could compete with the Viper, no no Gotta nerf it so hard that it isn't worth racing with it That's the right move for a sportsmanship focused competition Viper: GOML Regulators: I'm telling the admins and you're gonna get banned
Watching the N24 for the first time (go earl 🇳🇿) and I was wondering why they use a petrol pump with a meter, it looked funny compared with what I'm used to for GT3. Funny how that's how racing series get their quirks.
🤯🤯🤯 what a fascinating story. Thank you for sharing. What a complete bullshit move(s) they attempted. Imagine being a private team spending all that time and money and them doing all these calisthenics and jumping through hoops to shaft you even though you are compliant. Pathetic 🤦🤦🤦🤡🤡🤡
To me it is simply disgraceful - the whole idea of giving rules for one car is already ridiculous but the move with scratching out the name... I would have lost my mind if I was Zakspeed and I'd never race in that event again.
God forbid that car manufacturers design a better car instead if making heavier, crappier cars that rely on driving aids instead of driving skill and light weight high horsepower chassis
Did the 2000 version of the car really make "around 1000hp" (as claimed at 2:00)? I just wonder what your source is for this. Thanks. edit: After doing more research myself, I believe the unrestricted 2000 version actually made around 850hp. My sources for this conclusion can be found further down in this reply chain.
Race viper engines revd to about 8000 rpm, vs about 6000 rpm in the standard road car. Throw in big cams, better flowing heads, no cats, race fuel and ignition timing, and you've got a lot of power on tap!
@@mitchellsteindler The car is listed as making "+/- 650hp" on the site where some of the pictures used in this video came from. I can't find any mention at all of the claimed ~1000hp anywhere, and it really doesn't make sense to me.
Probably no one ever checked the number but in return for the 500kg ballast, the Viper was allowed to drive without restrictors. Plus higher revs, cams, different intake and exhaust.
@@Superstocker669 I searched for that with no results. I also searched for a few articles on it and manually looked for hp figures close to 1000hp and didn't get any. Even the official Zakspeed page for the car (which is from 1999-2008, unfortunately; not broken down by year) lists it as "water-cooled V10 engine 462kW (620 PS)"
Maybe the other competitors should just have chosen a better car. This is outrageous. Imagine doing your best and someone just cut your tires with a knife and having the whole system on their side.
For the fans arround the track it felt like a big scam from Zakspeed and there was a lot of hate and shaking heads in the air. I was there and spoke to a lot of other Fans about that. Also in the TV broadcast there were banners with things like "Zak du Arsch" (Zakowski you dumbass) and loads of thumbs down when the Viper passed by at sunday. Clever on paper but not very transparent for the Fans out there and it was still the exact same chrysler car, whatever the papers said. The whole thing was just a wired case from both sides. Thats how it felt back than in the time. And Zakspeed was a big fan favorite before and also after that thing has to be said.
If they were gonna regulate it, those regulations should have gone to everyone. This is one of the biggest embarassments in European motorsport history.
I don't really get it. How was it possible that the Viper was that much faster than all the other cars? Didn't they all have the same regulations on power, weight and fuel capacity?
This transcends cheating. This is a race organizer trying to screw over a single entry. I would not have taken their "compromise" if I were Zakspeed. It would have had a day on court.
Making rules or laws on a specific named car is always gonna be an awful practice. And it was so much easier to solve the matter without it. The Viper always had the most ridiculous engine displacement. Just limit that and done.
You've got to hand it to the Germans, they abide by the rules, but when they don't, they go all in. That was an incredible legal case, massive respect to Zakspeed.
People have the nerve to compare it to the Audi Transam and to slag American Racing Series, However that car was factory backed and was made with 4 times the budget of what privateer teams were capable of amassing, these lot don't even mention the Porsche RSR and 935. German racing series are far more notorious for their "balancing" acts even against neighboring European nations manufacturers.
One thing I noticed about german backed racing teams too are that their manufacturers can't seem to win without spending ludicrous amounts of money in a Racing Program, hence why everyone was going broke fighting Porsche and Audi in the 80s and 90s until they caught up with half the budget and the latter 2 manufacturers would leave, hence why they're soo protected in Germany. Mercedes in F1 for the past decade didn't engineer its way to dominance, it Spent 4 upwards to 7 times the budget of Haas to win, and only saving grace they have is that F1 didn't do anything about it until the 2021 ruleset and Budget Cap.
@@youngrody2386Was just an good example against stupid german or nation bashing. You can find such cases everywhere if youre looking for. I never understood that nation clownery. Whats the point of it? Im glad at the ring there is or was only a little fanboy thing. We all loved the cars and every winner was applauded.
Copying is always cheaper than innovating.
Or in some cases just banning it. (IMSA)
Audi was winning on an innovation called AWD.
Porsche was always top notch in sport car racing and the most sucessful brand in sports car racing history.
And good politics was always a factor too, thar for sure.
Yes and you will allways find a david who defeat the goliath but thats an exception
You deny that the Mercedes engine was an absolut masterpiece of engineering? That fucking thing won the WC 2 years nearly on its own and made the f1 more boring than ever.
And on if you have such an advantage you will in most cases conserve it to the next rule change.
Ferrari spent the same money also red bull did. Toyota had the biggest budget in the past and won nothing. In the F1 you need the top notch engineers. And they are limited.
@@youngrody2386 The RSRs, 935s and 962s were private entries (most of the time) and not factory backed. Talking about the 935s, why was the introduction of them into the IMSA delayed by 2 years? John Bishop was scared that 1974 and 1975 would repeat. Same thing in 1982 with the introduction of the Group C and IMSA GTP rules, Bishop was scared that manufacturers would take over making it impossible for privateers to be competetive so he ditched the Group C fuel formula for the IMSA GTP to drive down the costs.
Thats the same thing that happened to the Viper in the NLS. The NLS was a touring car series since its inception running Group 1 and 2 cars, later on Group N and A. After Group A rules ran out in 1992 they were using Class II cars (Supertourers). Suddenly in 1999 the Viper, a full blown GT1 car, appears in a field consisting of Class II cars and below which arent comparable to the Viper. To save the privateer nature of the NLS the Viper gets bopped to hell and back but even then its still significantly faster than most of the field using cheaper equipment. Other privateer teams now have to spend even more and bring NGT and Class 1 cars or stuff like the Turbinchen and now you have manufacturers like BMW joining as well driving the costs even higher killing off any privateer ambitions.
Or to put it in your words, an ex F1 Team joined a field of privateers and brought one of the most expensive and advanced cars money could buy to dominate the field.
The organizers should have done what Bishop did and ban the Viper (or any GT1 car) before it even arrived at the race track.
@MCA Geeff Lol, AWD is not an innovation of Audi. In fact, AWD was banned in rally because of a large American SUV beating European rally cars. Audi just bribed the FIA to allow AWD back into rally.
@@johncarl5505 The innovation was to build it light enough and usable to get an advantage in racing. And that was in racing an innovation. The AWD was legalized in 1979 before Audi hit the competiton with its AWD quattro. The competiton just thought it was too complex and too heavy solution.
500kg ballast is insane
It does seem a little on the harsh side
Yeah that's ridiculous
It was necessary at the end. The car was too dominant for the race in the past. in some years 35-40s faster than anyone. And it was really boring to watch. And the lap times showed that the 2003 Viper was well balanced within the competition in 2003. With a tank of lets say 105 Liters it would have been a perfect match up with the Audis BMWs and Opels.
its not really any different from today it was just the early days before strict balance of performance rules.
Today nobody gets 500kg of ballast because the manufacturers know it doesnt make sense to build the car too light because you will only add it back as ballast later if the car is too dominant.
Germans are known for making sure they get the desired result
To be fair, the E46 GTR got a similar ordeal from Porsche so it makes sense BMW would be more understanding of Zakspeed's situation. At least in the end, for both cars, the regulatory shenanigans resulted in them both being elevated to a sort of legendary status, leaving all of us to wonder what they could've achieved had history been different.
BMW: lookawaymeme.jpg
The problem with the E46 M3 GTR was that it had no production equivalent, unlike the 996 911 GT3 R. That’s what Porsche’s complaint was. Corvette Racing had the same attitude towards the Saleen S7-R, to which Steve Saleen responded by saying that the demand for the race car was greater than for the road car, so he simply built those first.
Other teams could’ve fielded GT cars at the Nurburgring 24 Hours, but they didn’t. That’s their problem, not Zakspeed’s.
@@FlashoftheBladesthe difference between corvette/ Saleen and BMW and Porsche is that It wasn't a technical rule. It was a gentleman/ unspoken rule. However when corvette complain , it was a technical rule.
@@charlesowens8724 In what way was it a technical rule?
@@FlashoftheBladesi am not sure but i think the s7 (2000) was produced a year before the s7r (2001)
Even after doing alot of research and making my own video about it i still end up learning more stuff. I didnt know about the whole legal side of it, that would have been one spectacular court case. Excellent video once again.
And they would have lost... Changing the name of a thing, doesnt change the thing. Cheating is cheating. But its funny how the Viper is always the victim. Its hard to fit an 8.4-something liter engine into any kind of racing league. Whether its Europe or the US.
And not because the Viper was "too good" either. It was never a successful car at any point in its 30 years existance.
@@captain_context9991 Yes that was feeling about it arround the track in 2003. Nearly nobody liked that Zak thing at the Ring. And the crowd showed that with banners against Zak and thumbs down at Sunday morning in television.
Hey thanks also for your video, which I found after I published mine! You have lots of race details which I don’t have in mine.
@@captain_context9991 Never ?
@@captain_context9991 german fanboy here, Viper was never a succesful car in 30 years lmao what a clown.
Fritzs shit their pants whenever they see Viper on track, even modern GT3 Viper wasn't allowed to run lol. I doubt they will allow Ferrari 296 GT3 to compete next year without some +200 kg ballast, they can't stand any proper competetion.
Basing car class on simply engine size is beyond any stupidity, it's a lot more complicated, and at the time for sure there wasn't any specific rules - manufacturers could easily turbocharged their engines and be on par with power.
Unbelievable story. Respect to Zakspeed for finding such amazing loopholes. Making the whole fuel tank swappable is absolutely insane.
Such BS that they said it was unsafe so they could change the rules. That gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want, just declare it unsafe.
@@samdajellybeenie14 while I agree it was definitely a power move, I can sort of see the safety dangers of carrying a 90 LITER FUEL TANK full of gasoline from the paddock into a car and then reattaching the fuel system, I mean there's a reason nobody does that anywhere
Overlooking how awfully unfair this entire thing was - it is probably the most hilarious motorsport story I've heard. The fuel tank was wild but the changing of the name to skip the regulations was genius
This story and the one about the mid 2000s NASCAR that had a slightly crooked body to go faster on oval tracks are my favorite lol
Very interesting!
My only experience with Zakspeed was when I paid them 280 E for a lap around the Ring. When I showed up on the right day at the right time, no one from Zakspeed was anywhere to be found. They took my money, then stood me up. The track personnel said they hadn't paid their track fees and weren't allowed on track. I got my money back later, but on that day I paid for a lap with Andreas Gulden, in a racing Aston. We passed Sabine, which was a great accomplishment for Andreas, made his day. Later, I met Sabine! She was a great person, lovely lass...Her passing was great loss for us all.
Justice for my boy!
So happy to see another Viper lover here, i appreciate the clearer context on the story, sometimes forget that not only F1 deals with politics in motorsports...
I didn't knew you had a Viper - great! My dream car. Great video on the GTS-R. I still think the 2003 N24 was won by Zakspeed, they won abiding the rules - the rules were basically just turned around within the race itself. There was never ever another car at the Ring that has lived through such lynching as the Viper had. It also has to be said that the Viper only got 8 cylinders in 2005, so they still ran 2004 on all ten cylinders.
Kadetts used to race next to GT1 and DTM cars and people complain about the Dacia
@@coletrickIe Not in top speed on straights . The was a few cars well over 300 km/h in that time in 2003 like the Alzen Turbinchen 996 turbo. And really slow cars like Austin mini. Todays GT3 top out at best at 280-290km/h and only one Dacia that ist no longer with us.
Yes. People are stupid sometimes.
@@coletrickIe the Viper had 1000hp man
@@Superstocker669 Youre not wrong but the really dangerous overtaking situations happen in the corners nowadays. The GT3 have so much corner speed compared to the slower non aero cars. On top of that in curvy sections a driver cant see as far ahead, maybe hes fighting another car that reduces his view forward even more so the danger just shifted i think.
@@benistingray6097 Yes for sure. But on the other hand your had about 100 cars more on the track and more slower clars like the dacia.
Another Viper from the Oreca customer program
Like the recent winning Ferrari, Oreca has a hand in so many historic cars
Does this mean it had the chassis from Reynard Motorsport in the UK as well - not based on the road car?
@@dra911 As far as I know, the Oreca Viper chassis came from USA Viper special factory
The factory cars had a few extra tricks, compared to the US supplied Customer cars, built same place though
Dude i have never heard of this vipe but this was absolutely brilliant
Favorite video of yours so far
Amazing amazing amazing team/car
Glad you enjoyed it!
And Europeans are always riding American cars as slow and poor handling vehicles. The Viper dominated many race tracks and events. What a beast and understated car.
That moment when you paid your lawyers more than your race team to win a race
I can imagine the lawyers on F1 teams findings even a .1mm difference loophole on parts to be deemed allowed or banned.
@@gerogyzurkov2259 I mean plank wear is one such case literally speaking, a half mm wear too much on the plank and you're instantly disqualified
Please do a video on the C6-R. As a fellow C6 owner, I’d be very interested. Saludos desde 🇵🇷
Winning with 2 valve heads, I dont really like anything American but the viper was awesome 😂
The viper is still today the most amazing car ever produced in look and performance. This case proves it once again!
Bruh…..nothing beats the Shelby cobra
@@longsleevethong1457 the Daytona is cool
When your car that's got 500kg of ballast is so competitive the regulators have to hand out completely arbitrary lap penalties after they realize the ballast, refueling and restrictor special regulations aren't enough to keep the Viper from winning.
This was absolutely a massive stain on German motorsports history.
What a legend! I never knew all the details of the ordeal and I consider myself a huge viper fan. Thanks for sharing!
Glad to help!
this channel is criminally underrated, purest diamond
I didn't even know about this until now. Thank you for the video.
Very interesting video. Amazing story. Well done!
Thanks for sharing this story, this was my first time actually watching the 24h race so it was cool to learn about all its history. Can't wait to see your W14 video as well :)
Great video and a nice idea to talk about such historical motorsport stories !! Hope we get more like this one soon 👌🏼
500kg +????
Das hab ich damals Live mit erlebt! War eine schöne Zeit damals, als Mechaniker in einem kleinem Team :) Ich weiß noch wo die Viper den 1 Roll out hatte, komplett unlackiert - ein Schwarzes Monster !!! Das hat man im Boden gespürt wenn die an der Box vorbei geballert ist. Leider hab ich keine Fotos von damals. Tolles Video -Danke
This is sorta the same case with the M3 GTR. It was starting to win in ALMS and Porsche was not happy about it.
Thanks for making this interesting and informative Viper video 👍🏻
You are welcome!
Danke für deinen Contend. :)
One of my favorite Vipers in Forza Motorsport 4...
Great video ty. I love this generation of race cars.
You are welcome!
a zakspeed viper... mad lads
also just more proof that the viper is one the greatest platforms ever--dodge just rubbed their nuts over everyone with that car
Viper is an absolute weapon
Quality as always
Side note, we need a return of a van class, with OEM engines (C63 Vito, for example, nom nom)
Interesting to know they received support from Daimler! The amg gt3 is quite like the viper in its shape and engine filosophy
It was the Daimler Chrysler car company at the time.
Great video, as always! What was the highest performance category that used original chassis (not prototypes) in motorsport history?
Good question, early 90s DTM was very high performance and at the time even more expensive than F1. Audi‘s IMSA prototype and pikes peak are also very high performance with partly original body.
I guess it depends on whether or not you count GT1 in the mid to late 90ies.
Those cars were capable of competing for outright Le Mans victory against prototypes, with chassis based on road cars.
However, the road cars themselves were homologation specials with very limited production numbers. Basically the manufacturers secretly developed prototype race cars first, then built road versions of them so that they then could claim that the race cars were based on the road car model.
What a great story!
It shows the need for regulators to have an oversight.
When you mentioned this car in your last video, was curious what the story behind this project was, thanks
Love this story and all of the innovations needed to stay in the race and win even when the rules were written to specifically keep them down.
Would you be willing to do a story or video on aero of Will Au-Yeung's car? It's a David vs. Goliath story where a small car beats all the other cars with clever aero and engineering.
Example:
ButtonWillow CW13 overall time attack record, Road Atlanta overall time attack record, NJMP overall time attack record, Ginerman Raceway overall time attack record, and the world’s fastest FF lap on Japan’s Tsukuba Circuit.
Keep up the excellent work. Thanks!
Is there any relation between this and the Oreca Vipers? Or is it just a case of semi-parallel development, similar to the various Ferrari 550 which turned up in FIA GT?
I didn't know the 2003 race was that preposterous!
From 1999. All of the racing GTSR Vipers came from Oreca customer program, they were the Factory race team for Chrysler, and had exclusive rights to parts and support
Interesting to hear Pedro Lamy drove the Zackspeed Viper, as he was one of the early Oreca Viper drivers
He also drove the ill-fated flipping Mercedes CLR, luckily his did not crash, super chill dude
Their first win at Le Mans in #53, was Donahue / Bell / Drudi, in 1998
The car I crewed on, we were the 3rd car of the team, and not expected to win ;)
@@NinetyTres
Thank you! That's a great memory, I am sure.
Its not really that preposterous.... They had to intervene and shut down THIS TEAM for forcing their hand and refusing the rules. If you dont comply, you dont race. Simple as that. But because its American, its always some kind of a victim complex.
Fantastic story! I never knew this and it’s very interesting. I too own a Viper and it’s a fantastic ownership experience. From North Carolina USA. I dream of the day I can come to Nurburgring and watch the 24hr race!
@@NinetyTresAnd it wasn’t even Pedro’s CLR that had those blowovers. Two of them were by the #4 of Jean Marc-Gounon, Marcel Tiemann and Mark Webber, while the third and only one to be caught on camera as it happened was the #5 of Christoph Bouchet, Peter Dumbreck and Nick Heidfeld. Lamy’s #6 CLR, which he shared with Frank Lagorce and Bernd Schneider, was the only CLR to not have a blowover.
1:06 that spare tire made my day
It really looks like that...
Great video
That guy would do well as an F1 team principal! I guess it hurts to the germans not to win the 24 hours with so many top sports german brands
The Viper is my all-time favorite car. I became a fan of the Zakspeed version after seeing the 2001 running on Speedvision and was absolutely pissed 😤 off over the treatment they got in 2003. If I was in the team boss’s position, I would’ve taken the case to the FIA and told the race organizers to go to Hell.
true, and people are going to host nurburgring 24h no matter what, just by a diiferent organizer, Zakspeed's boss was too nice
👍
Great story, Thank You!!
I used to have a Viper GTS (the only American car I’ve ever owned besides an old JEEP XJ). It was such wild fun to drive and beautiful. Steel grey with blue stripes.
Sie ist und bleibt mein Nummer 1 GT Fahrzeug 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Your link page is not working.
Is the Viper GTS-R still for sale ?
The weird thing is, today Zakspeed owns one third of the Nürburgring GmbH.
Should have taken it to court. He might own the whole thing by now.
@@benjaminbrockway5998 better not. The Russian guy managing it, does an excellent job so far.
The Zakspeed Viper being banned isn't the first time such a thing happened.
Remember the Tom Walkinshaw Racing (TWR) Jaguar XJS that competed in the Group A European Touring Car Championship? That was treated pretty much the same way, as its then closest competitor, the BMW 635CSI, simply didn't stand a chance against it. Jaguar's 5.3liter V12 versus BMW's 3.5 liter inline-six was simply a joke and TWR easily won the championship until the car was banned.
Brilliant video 👍
Thanks!
Amazing video
But finally, the 5th place was given back to the Viper or it kept disqualified after the case?
Zakowski should have driven the whole thing into the ground as it deserved it...
Things get interesting when ppl are competitive, have an aerodynamics question, does the little round carbon strip on the front wheel arch reduce aero drag on the viper? Cheers, great video 👍
Talk about a brilliant bunch of workarounds
What kind of disgusting "competition" was this? Arbitrary special rules to hinder a specific competitor? Isn't something like this illegal pretty much everywhere?
Is the Nürburgring 24H still an abomination like this?
It isn't anymore, now it has well defined, well regulated classes plus special classes for small teams that want to have some fun with something silly, it's pretty nice now
Yeah this was bullshit but they are much better now.
This was the qualifying result in really nice conditions in 2003
P # class team time
1. 2 A8 H&R Spezialfedern Porsche 996 Turbo (the famous "Turbinchen") 9.00,266
2. 12 A8 Manthey-Racing Porsche 996 Turbo 9.02,905
3. 6 E1 OPC Team Phoenix Opel Astra V8 Coupe 9.04,444
4. 1 A8 Zakspeed Team Fuji Dodge Viper 9.04,525
5. 42 E1 BMW Motorsport BMW M3 GTR E46 9.08,771
6. 5 E1 OPC Team Phoenix Opel Astra V8 Coupe 9.09,130
7. 43 E1 BMW Motorsport BMW M3 GTR E46 9.09,135
8. 8 E1 Abt Sportsline Abt-Audi TT-R 9.10,507
9. 7 E1 Abt Sportsline Abt-Audi TT-R 9.11,577
10. 10 A7 Scuderia Augustusburg BMW M3 E46 9.21,221
Whats your point, trying to show the viper wasnt the fastest car? Even if thats the case, the race goes 24h hours and laptime alone doesnt make a winner.
@@benistingray6097 No its just interesting for most people to get a little view whats going on at the weekend and what the pace was of the different car. The fastest car back than was with no doubt the "Alzen Turbinchen" Turbo Porsche. Yeah and its true lap time back than wasnt all compared to now. The Turbos were too thirsty to win for example and the Turbinchen not durable.
@@Superstocker669 The Porsche's success was mostly due to better Chassis design, however the Viper still dominated in the championship races.
@@Superstocker669 Ah ok, then i got you wrong, my bad.
@@youngrody2386 Yes cause it had no competition. Especially before 2003. No question. There was no comparable car on grid. Im talking more of 2003 and ongoing here. In the VLN Championship the Turbinchen Porsche was at this point unbeatable in Speed. But that was a massive care. No compare to the average porsches. In some races it arrived with 15s advantage in the Brünnchen.
I was excited about the track, and was thinking of buying a Nurburgring shirt. Not now.
Its to mention that the raceversion viper is actually made by oreca and has not really much to do with chrysler or dodge.
Zakspeed used this basis to then upgrade it for the 24h Nürburgring
Swapping a fuel tank is a genius idea and I'd argue safer then normal refueling, since you don't rely on a man who in a hurry can try to pull out a fuel gun nozzle too early and spray the whole car with petrol.
Fantastic story.
Are the old-shape Vipers that came to the N24 in the 2010s the same car or unrelated project(s)?
Very interesting
Zakowski's a better person than I, I would have burned those regulators to the ground.
Zakspeed was in the right.
I mean that is scummy as hell.
This is a great video but I have a good idea. What if put GTEs in the n24 since they don’t use it after this year
Ok so the problem was that the latest sport car designs of that time couldn't compete with an outdated platform so they tried everything to handicap it to the point where it's no longer competitive or bend the rules so it becomes illegal.
My rhetorical question here, even if one manages to rule Vipers out of the race, what does victory worth?
What slogan does it make, like _I'm the best, when no Vipers are around that is_ ? As a customer, will it make me buy that brand?
This is a similar story to how Offenhauser / Miller racing engines was severely handicapped after dominating motor sports in the US for 50yrs…The big 3 US automakers had them severely handicapped a 1.5L handicap under their competitors bc they couldn’t make a better motor to compete so they just bought off the racing boards to change the rules to make it impossible for Offy to win
Everytime the authorities want to clamp down on the public with incredibly cruel measures:
ITs fOr YoUR sAfETy
Wunderbar Aus Australia 👍🇩🇪🏁 Super video ich bin ein auslander
Thanks and greetings!
Sometimes regulators would deserve a regulation not to act that unbearable way, with no shame at all. Will Ferrari 296 GT3 be the next target?
The Germans are very tolerant to new cars and loopholes in the rules. As long as you don’t make it faster than the 911.
I wish the FIA did the same with Mercedes in those 8 Years of completely Dominance! This Nerfs of the Viper are ridiculous. Only Because the German Vehicles couldn't keep up with it...
What car sound in the intro
so, this wasnt the green gas-powered viper, used by titus some years ago? i always thought its the same car but they changed it from normal fuel to gas...
Nobody took the Viper serious when it first showed up on the track
Then it evolved a little
Heaven forbid other manufactures try to make cars that could compete with the Viper, no no
Gotta nerf it so hard that it isn't worth racing with it
That's the right move for a sportsmanship focused competition
Viper: GOML
Regulators: I'm telling the admins and you're gonna get banned
Watching the N24 for the first time (go earl 🇳🇿) and I was wondering why they use a petrol pump with a meter, it looked funny compared with what I'm used to for GT3. Funny how that's how racing series get their quirks.
They pits always had have only regular fuel pumps still to that day. Its just easier and low cost way to fuel 230 cars especially in those old days.
That car was basically a new version of the Shelby cobra
🤯🤯🤯 what a fascinating story. Thank you for sharing. What a complete bullshit move(s) they attempted. Imagine being a private team spending all that time and money and them doing all these calisthenics and jumping through hoops to shaft you even though you are compliant. Pathetic 🤦🤦🤦🤡🤡🤡
Those regulators must have been paid off, why else would they be so horrible to Chrysler / Dodge? Totally unfair.
Whiny euro manufacturers couldn't figure out how to beat good old American muscle.
I love this company! Do you know why? They are racers!!
To me it is simply disgraceful - the whole idea of giving rules for one car is already ridiculous but the move with scratching out the name... I would have lost my mind if I was Zakspeed and I'd never race in that event again.
And I would have absolutely dragged it to the FIA court. Complete scorched earth.
classic. if you can't beat them cry for a rule change.
God forbid that car manufacturers design a better car instead if making heavier, crappier cars that rely on driving aids instead of driving skill and light weight high horsepower chassis
Did the 2000 version of the car really make "around 1000hp" (as claimed at 2:00)? I just wonder what your source is for this. Thanks.
edit: After doing more research myself, I believe the unrestricted 2000 version actually made around 850hp. My sources for this conclusion can be found further down in this reply chain.
Race viper engines revd to about 8000 rpm, vs about 6000 rpm in the standard road car. Throw in big cams, better flowing heads, no cats, race fuel and ignition timing, and you've got a lot of power on tap!
@@mitchellsteindler The car is listed as making "+/- 650hp" on the site where some of the pictures used in this video came from. I can't find any mention at all of the claimed ~1000hp anywhere, and it really doesn't make sense to me.
@@amp888 google for Zakspeed Viper 1000 PS. That was a figure that was often heard and written about in that time. If its true? who knows
Probably no one ever checked the number but in return for the 500kg ballast, the Viper was allowed to drive without restrictors. Plus higher revs, cams, different intake and exhaust.
@@Superstocker669 I searched for that with no results. I also searched for a few articles on it and manually looked for hp figures close to 1000hp and didn't get any. Even the official Zakspeed page for the car (which is from 1999-2008, unfortunately; not broken down by year) lists it as "water-cooled V10 engine 462kW (620 PS)"
Maybe the other competitors should just have chosen a better car.
This is outrageous. Imagine doing your best and someone just cut your tires with a knife and having the whole system on their side.
Doesn’t really matter, but do you know how much it ended up being sold for just out of curiosity?
At least they couldn't blame the FIA for that!
so the VIper is really a leyend
Im surprised a front mid engined car was beating rear mid engined cars. How???
For the fans arround the track it felt like a big scam from Zakspeed and there was a lot of hate and shaking heads in the air. I was there and spoke to a lot of other Fans about that. Also in the TV broadcast there were banners with things like "Zak du Arsch" (Zakowski you dumbass) and loads of thumbs down when the Viper passed by at sunday. Clever on paper but not very transparent for the Fans out there and it was still the exact same chrysler car, whatever the papers said. The whole thing was just a wired case from both sides. Thats how it felt back than in the time. And Zakspeed was a big fan favorite before and also after that thing has to be said.
big scam is bribing FIA to ban Viper because your stupid car engineers couldnt build a fast car.
If they were gonna regulate it, those regulations should have gone to everyone. This is one of the biggest embarassments in European motorsport history.
I don't really get it. How was it possible that the Viper was that much faster than all the other cars? Didn't they all have the same regulations on power, weight and fuel capacity?
Two words: American muscle. The Euros couldn't beat it, so they regulated it out of existence.
I love cheating and rule bending in motorsports. It’s like a whole competition by itself.
This transcends cheating. This is a race organizer trying to screw over a single entry. I would not have taken their "compromise" if I were Zakspeed. It would have had a day on court.
I think instead of all the bullshit they should've just started with an engine displacement rule. An 8 litre engine is just silly.
Little side fact. The winning Opel stuck in the gravel trap and lost also 1 Lap during the race at night on the GP circuit.
Making rules or laws on a specific named car is always gonna be an awful practice.
And it was so much easier to solve the matter without it. The Viper always had the most ridiculous engine displacement.
Just limit that and done.
Alleine das Zusehen macht mich schon traurig. Eine Schande ist das.