No matter how much you think you know, there's always something new to learn. I've been doing this for more than forty years and still discover new and better ways of doing things. Tom
All you negative folks out there need to grow a pair and give the man the respect due for trying to share these videos..I'd hate to see the folks that post these videos get fed up with all you jackasses and stop trying to help those of us that listen because of it.
All vises allow the work to rise when you clamp it (even my Kurt), so tapping the work down is a normal part of the procedure when milling. Glad you got some useful tips from the video.
This is such an awesome bit of machine lore. I'm a hobby machinist, and don't do this often enough to totally memorize the process. But today is my nTh viewing (always come back for a refresher) and I think I may be finally 'getting' it! Thanks for all your good info, Tom!
Thanks, but that's an old worn out file that I been using for years just for deburring and it's actually better off that way. Nice new files don't work well for deburring because they tend to chatter. When I get around to doing a video on filing, I'll concentrate more on proper technique, but not for something as mundane as deburring.
Been a Tool Maker / CNC Programmer for 27years I watched this video and was like of course this is how u square a block I guess I thought everyone was taught 2 square blocks this way, until I read the comments and am blown away that there's machinist out there that never were taught this. Only diffrence I would say is I don't use a ball pien hammer I use a dead blow and after having 3sides milled I then put in 2 parallels instead of 1 but apart from that I've always used a pin if I don't have 2ground sides across from each other. Don't try and tap block down until u have a ground edge against non moving jaw and edge sitting on parallel u will fight a loosing battle is the only other tip I can give, allow the back jaw and pin in front 2square ur block until u have a milled surface 2sit on parallel. Nice vid.
The basic formula for rpm is four times the cutting speed of the material divided by the diameter of the end mill. In this case I was using a 1/2" end mill and cutting aluminum, which has a cutting speed of 250 surface feet per minute, so 4 X 250 /.5= 2000 rpm.
Thanks Richard. My videos are definitely geared toward beginning students because that's who I worked with when I started teaching. It's a lot of fun to get back to teaching again. I am hard at work on a website that will make it much easier to browse the videos and offer something new that I call project tutorials where I provide drawings for a useful project and then build it start to finish. They will include many different machining processes and have different levels of difficulty. Tom
Thank you for your very clear and straightforward video. No distracting music, unnecessary graphics and other attempts to be cool and funny. I learned what I needed to learn - totally new at this. Not only did I learn how to square everything, your additional hints that you mention in passing are very informative. It was like watching Penn and Teller show how they do their tricks. Obvious when you know how - but I didn't! Thanks again.
Thank you...I followed all your steps...works great....I need a mini machinists square to line up the end surface.l.but the rest of technique worked wonders.
Square is a term I've heard for many years as a machinist for 40+ years. It all depends on. WHAT the part is going to be used for as far as the process of squaring up blocks, .0002 squares needed or .005 good enough. If .005 was good enough, side milling ends would work to save time. If more accuracy is needed, use head with indicator instead of square. First side should should be clamped, but NOT pounded down. Also, vise jaws are not always square with the world as we all think, especially if you clamp tight, it can move jaw out of square slightly
If you think .0002 is a tolerance you think you can keep on a mill..... You are a liar when you say that you have been in the trade 40 plus years !!! Wanna challenge me.... go ahead .... lets see who makes more sence.... Perhaps we could let people on a machine shop site decide who knows what they are talking about in REAL world situations ???
People are really trying to knock this guy. If at the end of the day he is happy with the amount of time spent, the tooling lifespan, and the dimensional correctness of the part he delivers then is there anything wrong with how he arrived there? It fits his purposes fine. Shoot in my hobby machining I do things differently than I see a lot of machinists do on TH-cam. Not because their method is wrong but because my smaller machines just can’t handle the methods used with larger industrial machines. Quite frankly I found it to be a rather informative video. Good content. 👍 And for god sakes people stop worrying about the ball peen hammer. The surfaces he strikes are already marred up from sawing...🙄
This was exactly the method I just learned in my machinist class, and is outlined in the NIMS textbook. The only variation we learned was for milling sides 5 and 6: if the piece is a long rectangle you might not want too much standing up in a vise, so simply raise the bench and run the side of the end mill over the sides of the workpiece. Good video thank you!
Tom, We are not on the correct video for my question, but here we go. Just watched a video cutting a keyway/slot on each side(in line and oposite sides) of a shaft. quite a wide keyway and the method used to align the Top Dead Centre of the shaft and cut the second slot I would say was not the most accurate. If a narrow keyway was to be cut that method would not have worked. I do have in mind something as to how it could be done but how about you doing a short video and show how you can cut two keyways on opposite sides and be perfectly in line. To the 0.001 if possible. I enjoy your teaching methods and thanks to you and some other guys for the time to upload this stuff. regards
A keyway on each side of a shaft is pretty unusual, so I don't think a video would be justified. There are lots of ways to do it though. The easiest would be to simply hold the shaft in a dividing head and index the shaft 180º to cut the two keyways. If a dividing head is not available and the shaft was 1" or smaller, it could be held in a collet block and the block held in the vise and flipped to cut the keyway on the opposite side. If the shaft was too large for a collet, a V-block could be clamped to it and squared to the table with the shaft held in the vise. Feel free to contact me through my website (tomstechniques.com) for random questions. It's a lot easier than trying to communicate through TH-cam. Tom
Toms Techniques Apologies i omitted to say the keyways were on opposite ends of the shaft not 180 degrees to each other. opposite ends same Top dead centre and the shaft long enough so it had to be taken off the bed to turn around. So you could not just lower the work down and wind the cutter to the other sideThanks for the reply
CHRISTOS TSANDAS Ah, that makes more sense. I would just clamp the shaft in a couple of V-blocks and align them to the tee slot in the table. The slots on my mill are .625 wide and take a 5/8" parallel nicely. I can just push the work against the parallels and know that it is parallel with the table. Tom
FINALLY someone who thinks outside the box. You wouldn't believe the amount of flak I'm taken over using that ball pein hammer in the video. ;) Ball peins are smaller than pretty much any other hammer so you can hold the part with your fingers and feel when it sits down on the parallels. Like you say, any marks will be machined away. A lot of techniques I use are outside the norm but I use them because they work. Thanks. Tom
Thanks Vince. Side milling is a good option for long or thin parts, but only as a last resort. You''ll get a part that is more square if you face mill or fly-cut because you won't get the cutter deflection that you get when side milling. I normally side mill when squaring up plate stock. Glad you enjoyed the video. Tom
Good point. Burrs on the part and chips under the part are the two biggest problems when squaring up stock. You can do everything right and still not end up with a square part if you don't deal with the burrs and chips. I keep a brush hanging on the side of the machine and a file within reach. Tom
In in a machining class currently, just got my MMS bout to get my bench work planning and layout. We recently used a mill to face off a block of aluminum. my teacher told me that you always cut by bringing the stock from right to left with the drill spinning clockwise. while doing it in class i asked why you cant make a second pass going from left to right, didn't get much of an answer except that you dont do it haha. Could someone please help me with this. I know what my teacher said to do is conventional milling and the other way is climb milling, i saw that you said it makes less of a burr and ive read it makes better surface finish. is there any reason you would do one or the other or both at the same time. Also we have been taught to use a dead-blow hammer for setting stock in the vice, i trust there is some explanation for using one or the other if someone could explain that as well. much appreciated!
Your teacher is probably being cautious about climb milling because those just starting out don't have a good feel about how to deal with the forces involved. In reality though, with light cuts like this it doesn't really matter if you are climb milling or not while facing. Nothing is going to move. I prefer using the edge of a ball pein hammer over a dead blow because it's easier to feel when a part is seated on the parallels. Of course that only applies to rough surfaces that will be machined, because it leaves marks. Finished parts require some sort of soft hammer. Tom
I am a retired tool & die maker, and you are doing this the hard way to square a block. After squaring 4 sides, put the block roughly square in the vise and machine the 5th side BUT now mark the side that is square to the back jaw with a marker, also mark the 5th side as it will need to be milled a second time. Now turn the block over, 180 degrees and put the squared side 90 degrees to the back jaw, machine the 6th side which is now square in 2 planes. again turn the block 180 degrees and finish machining the 5th side again which was before only square in one plane. no need for indicators or squaring devices. Remember , the vice is nothing more than an angle plate with a clamp attached. Also, to try to tap a tall block with a hammer is a waste of time. the vice will always lift up a small amount, but if you tighten it the same each time, it will repeat within .001 every time. I also used to use a piece of body filler lead in stick form to use for uneven surfaces . Also , using a fly cutter, the head must be trammed square and if your machine is older and worn, it will also affect squareness, a smaller diameter cutter will work better in this case.
You know as well as I do Glenn, that there are many different approaches in machining to accomplish the same thing. You should share your knowledge via a video as I do, so others can benefit from it. I understand what you are saying, but most novice machinists will not. Tom
Don't want to sound mean.... and yes it does work in pracitcal and theory.....however, if the block can fit in your vice like most pieces and you comfortable with the squarness of the head. ( please forgive any incorrect grammar) you put the part in the vice but with about 75% of th part exposed out of the top of the vice... and one side totally off to the left hand side of the vice.... clean up the top work to flatten that side. 1 side done.... keep part in vice move endmill to side on solid vice ( back side...) climb mill that side to close to dimension..so now you have two sides done and are square as edge.. Now lift the knee then the now cut the left hads side ..? Lower table and machine sides açcordling...now you have top and 4 sides square and parallel.... Change parallel s to shorter ,tap down part and repeat process and a 6 sided square block will bi in the vice that is parallel congratulating all that in 2 setup instead of 6 regrips and square ...sounds like a lot of work while reading... but as perfect as your mill...and no hand tools needed
For this particular procedure it's not necessary that the solid jaws of the vise be parallel to the table because all the milling is performed on the top surface. However, unless you are purposely making an angled cut on a part, the vise jaws should always be kept parallel to the table, just as the head should always be kept perpendicular to the table. I have a video showing a quick way to indicate the solid jaw on a vise, it's called "Indicate the vise on a milling machine in just one pass".
The quill is not calibrated as accurately as the knee, it's meant for drilling only. Whenever you are milling, the quill should be locked. To mill a part to a specific thickness you would take a cut and set the dial on the knee to zero, measure the part to see how much you need to remove, raise the knee by that amount and take a finish cut.
Nice lesson and sharing control of sides through marking. Agree the ball ping hammer is something I will try and see if it provide to me any difference , it is good to try new things, well new to me anyways after 40 plus machining years.
Yeah, this comment has been beaten to death so to speak. As I said before, the ball pein is only used on rough sawed surfaces. I have a nice plastic mallet to use on the finished ones. You might want to delve outside the box a bit and give the old ball pein a try. They work great.
Thanks! Not sure why you wouldn't climb mill, unless you have a smaller mill that lacks rigidity. Climb milling is perfectly acceptable on larger, more rigid machines and in fact provides a better surface finish than conventional milling, especially on aluminum.
Is the block already machined? If so, you won't need to go through the squaring process, just machine three sides to get it to your final dimension. If the block is not machined, then square it up and to size just like I did in the video. Tom
An end milled part will be more square than a side milled part because there is no flex in the end mill. Side milling is fine for panels and other thin parts, or if there is no other option, but I always end mill thicker parts if possible.
You are correct, but you can't assume any of the faces are parallel until they have been machined. The wire is only used on surfaces that have not been machined, such as sawed or rolled (mill) surfaces.
Nice you took the time to put this out there! I have interviewed a lot of people for tool maker positions and I always ask to explain how to square a block. As mentioned There are a few ways depending on accuracy required. One thing we did is grind the side block on the vice square so a 123 block can be screwed on as a rail for that last side. Helps save time when you have a lot of blocks. Check out the video by lindquist steels showing how they square up blocks. Now that's fast!
Hi Tom hope you read this and my other messages. I am eager to learn all you will give. Ive always use a slide calculator to figure out feed rate. I'd like to know how to long hand it. I have tried to learn from books but I'm confused by the math? Can you do video's on how to use grinding attachment like spinners for ejector pins and cores in tool building please? One more thing how to grind radius on core pins via attachment on surface grinders? Thank you.
For the second to the last face, wouldn't it have been easier and less error prone (no square necessary) to have kept the part oriented the way it had been, and just scoot it out past the end of the vise, cutting it with the side of the cutter rather than the bottom? Then, you could do the last face as you had done all the previous ones, if you wanted. I'm not a machinist, just learning. That makes more sense to me, though.
An end milled part will always be more square than a side milled part due to deflection of the cutter. Also, if you hold a part on one end of the jaws, the other side should be supported with a machinists jack to keep the jaws from cocking. What you describe works well for squaring up thin parts. Tom
Tom, I was thinking this over some more--not trying to quibble. Using the end of the cutter would actually be more leverage on the tool than using the side of it, say half way up (or even further!). In fact, that would be the most leverage you could put on the tool, being at the very tip. The only problem left would be to have to put another piece of the same size on the other end of the vise to make sure it clamps straight. Am I missing something? Thanks for your time!
Maybe it's the fact that on the end, you're using only one edge of the cutter, whereas using the end of the cutter, both (or all) blades are cutting. Still, you're feeding it which would seem to me to cause deflection.
Jay Williams When you side mill, there is much more of the tool in contact with the work than with end milling and that causes the cutter to deflect. That leverage you are talking about makes the end mill deflect more at the bottom than the top and actually creates a curved surface. Not the best result when you are trying to machine a flat surface. When end milling, you take much shallower cuts, so tool deflection is minimal. Also when end milling a large surface, multiple passes are required, so any deflection is averaged between passes. That creates a surface that has some local irregularities but is very flat globally. Tom
I was a shaper hand in the early 70's. Mostly squared stock for a tool and die company. Everything came in sawed pretty close so there wasn't much stock to remove. Occasionally I would get to shape to a curved line for a blanking die which was fun, although a bit nerve racking. We would get chewed out if we left too much stock and lose our job if we "crossed the line" too many times. Shapers went away shortly after that, replaced by horizontal mills and Blanchard grinders. Just too slow I guess.
The thumbs up thumbs down feature of TH-cam is totally meaningless because it requires absolutely no explanation. If those 15 people had to provide an explanation to justify their thumbs down rating, there would probably be a lot fewer than 15. The magnets are a good idea for holding the bar in place. Tom
Over the years I've found that a simple ball pein works as well or better than a dead blow or lead hammer: They are small so the part doesn't need to be moved as far from the cutter for access, using the ball end feels exactly the same as a dead blow (try it you'll be surprised), and it's one less hammer taking up space in the tool box. Obviously you would not use a ball pein on a finished surface, but for squaring up a rough sawed part they can't be beat.
I can see where that would help, but if I was going to take an extra step, I'd rather use the technique described by Andrew Bauer below. He side cuts the block with the Y axis, just wide enough to sit on the parallel after squaring up #4, then then places it against the parallel to square up #5, flips the block and squares #6, then finishes up #5. I've been trying to adopt his technique, but after doing it "my way" for the last 40 years, it's not easy. What's that adage about old dogs? Tom
This is actually a variation on the traditional method which rotates the part toward the solid jaw one adjacent side at a time. I prefer this method because it references everything back to the original surface. There is nothing theoretical about it, if done correctly either technique will produce a square part.
I would end mill the four sides of the bar and side mill the ends. Side milling makes sense on long slender parts like bar stock, but on larger more square parts, end milling would be more appropriate.
Tom....just a home shop guy here......great video, great education, I will try the wire method. I have been using a ball that has a flat milled on it which the flat sits against the moveable jaw
If the solid jaw on your vise is square then you should have no problem tapping the part down on the parallels regardless of size. Indicate the solid jaw, on your vise on both the X axis and Z axis (move the table, not the head) to be sure. Also make sure the head of your mill is perpendicular to the table, especially if using a fly cutter. The procedure I've outlined will create a square part, but the machine must to be properly set up or you'll just transfer any misalignment to the part.
As do I, but only after finishing two surfaces at right angles to each other. It doesn't make sense to de-burr before that because the side against the parallel will be sawed anyway.
Thanks, but a ball pein is my preference for many reasons; they are small, readily available and work very well as long as you use the ball end or the edge. In fact, it is much easier to feel when a part is down tight on the parallels with a ball pein than a dead blow. If I'm working on a finished surface, I just use a small nylon faced hammer to tap the part down. You may want to give it a try.
Coolant can be used to allow higher feeds and speeds, especially on steel, but it is optional. In this case I'm taking light cuts in aluminum, so coolant isn't necessary at all.
You never tighten the vise after tapping the part down, that would risk lifting the part off the parallels again. Tighten it first, then tap the part down and take the cut. Climb milling can be used at any time on a rigid machine like this. If you are using a lightweight machine such as a bench mill, climb milling should be limited to a finish cut.
Thanks for commenting. I prefer the feel and size of a ball pein over other types of hammers on rough surfaces. If I was working on a part that was already machined, I would use a plastic hammer. Sticking small parts out the end of the vise if fine for larger parts, but on a small part like this it's asking for trouble. The vise won't grip the part evenly and the risk of it moving is high. A side milled part also won't be as square as an end milled part due to flex in the end mill.
You can take deep cuts in steel as well, but it takes experience to know when it's appropriate. Plunge cutting with long end mills is a good example of when climb milling is appropriate. I have a thread in the gunsmithing section of metalworkingfun where I mill a deep pocket in steel with a 1/4" by 3" end mill and climb cut it. It also takes rigid machinery. I wouldn't try much climb milling on a bench mill. In cases like this, I like to climb around the edges so it doesn't raise a burr.
The spindle should always be perpendicular to the table. If not, your end mills won't generate a flat surface (particularly noticeable with larger end mills and fly cutters) and the holes you drill won't be square to the parts.
Thanks for the comments Kevin, but I have already explained in these comments why the part is centered in the vise, why I don't like to side mill and why I use a ball pein hammer. Check out the comments and give it a try.
The reason I use soft aluminum wire is that it will conform to the irregular surface of a sawed part. Steel rods will work on a flat surface but may not hold as well on an irregular one.
That's an interesting variation and there is nothing wrong with doing it that way. The only problem is that it takes a tool change and an extra step, meaning that it would take longer to do over just using a square. Thanks for pointing it out. Tom
How square you can get a part definitely depends on how good your square is and also on the size of the part. Yes, I can get a part that small square within .001". The square I'm using in the video is a Brown & Sharp master precision square. I think it's square within a tenth in six inches.
My 2 cents is that this technique while perhaps is not the fastest, is the purest. Doing a top surface and then a side surface (with the block over the edge of vise with the side of the end mill) introduces both vise and head tram issues unnecessarily at this crucial point. I am struggling with the fact people are giving you grief over the hammer Tom! Tim
Thanks Tim. I wonder how many of those who were appalled by my use of the ball pein had enough of an open mind to try it? I'll bet not many, which is unfortunate because my videos are full of non standard techniques that save time and work very well. Tom
Dear mettaling Ohh so close... You only put the minimal amount in the vice like 75% out of vice , then you do 4 sides as close to the vice as possible being sure to use the knee, not the quill then you do the top. Then you flip it over tap with a hammer ( I have a big chunk of bronze) .. then you match up the remainder of the 4 sides, Then what used to be the bottom. That way your block is as square as you can possibly get it . Only open the vice once , and don't have keep turing the mill off and on .
THERE'S A BETTER WAY USING NO SQ AND EYE SITE. AFTER THE FOUR SIDES ARE DONE MOVE THE CUTTER TO THE SIDE DROP INTO THE WORK TWICE THE THICKNESS OF THE PARALLEL.. THEN SET THAT EDGE DOWN ON THE PARALLEL .TAKES THE GUESS WORK OUT OF SURFACES 5&6. YOU DEPEND ON THE VISE BEING SQ...I DID IT LIKE YOU FOR 30+ YEARS TILL I SEEN IT DONE (TH-cam).TORMACH SIMPLICITY AND VERY AND ACCURATE. PEACE
Hi Tom, have just read all the comments on your video and it seems a number of your viewers are wassocks (foreigners can google the meaning). How can 15 people dislike your work? It may not be the only method, it may not be the best but it is a good method, good enough for all but the most very critical of purposes. Rather than use a bit of wire, I use a piece of 1/2" Dia. alloy bar flattened to a "D" shape with two small magnets embedded in the flat side. The magnets hold it on the moving jaw.
The arm is part of a work stop. If you have more than one part to make, the stop will locate each part so you don't need to find the edge every time you put another part in. Tom
You are welcome. The moveable jaw of the vise has freedom of movement about the Z axis, but not the X axis. Using a wire or rod between the part and jaw compensates for that.
Thanks Andrew. I think that's the same technique the last poster described. It'll create the same end result but like you say, using one extra step. That's the fun thing about machining, there are many different ways of accomplishing the same thing. Tom
Nope, high speed steel. I'll use carbide on tool steels or if I need the extra stiffness but generally high speed steel will produce a better surface finish, especially on aluminum.
nice video but you really need to get a soft hammer for setting the part in the vice, I don't think hitting aluminum with a steel ball pein hammer is such a good way to do it. A proper dead blow plastic type is a much better choice. cheers
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. Milling bar stock is pretty much the same technique. You'll need a set of thin parallels and since you'll be working very close to the vise jaws, you'll need to be careful. Basically machine one side flat, place it against the solid jaw and machine the 2 adjoining sides square and to size. Then clamp it in the vise with the remaining side up and machine that to size. The ends can then be side milled to length.
Yes, using another part to space the jaws is an option as is using a machinists jack or an adjustable parallel. Flex in an end mill is not negligible. They all flex and longer ones can flex considerably. You'll always get a part that is more square by end milling which is why I prefer to do it that way, and do it that way in this demo. Proper use of a square is a learned skill and comes from experience, just like the feel when miking a part or when using a telescoping gauge.
Great video! I have used several techniques. his is one of the best. It would be great for beginning machine shop students. I will recommend your channel to my community college machining instructors and classmates. I make the Z adjustments by raising the table. Thanks again.
It depends on the situation. It can be difficult to measure a part held in the mill vise so sometimes it's easier to just take it out for a measurement. As long as you tap the part back down tight on the parallels removing it will have little effect on accuracy. On a lathe, it's perfectly acceptable to remove a part held in a collet, but generally not a good idea with a three jaw or four jaw chuck because it would be difficult to return the part to the same position without indicating it. Tom
At about 4:30 in the video I take one dimension of the block to a specific size, checking it with calipers. Basically all you do is take a cut and set the dial on the table to zero, measure the part, move the table up the required amount and take a finish cut. I'm using a 1/2" two flute end mill in this video and the mill is a DoAll variable speed milling machine, much like a Bridgeport. Tom
I've tried, on both manual and CNC machines, old and new. The jaw is always perfectly perp. II "un-teach" the old-school method to new toolmakers that just got out of school. Some balk at first but come around when they can't produce a square block. The new toolmakers that come with decades of experience have abandoned this method long ago. I honestly don't understand why it doesn't work. It should, in theory If your back jaw is perp and your part is tight to it...
kinda cool but i just use starret hold dwns mill a side put that dwn boom 2 parralel sides no need to use the wire multiple times...but if all u guys really want the most square part you would use an angle plate...not that tom here is wrong im sure hes prolly bout .0002 out of square at most...n he knows his shit side milling will create a less perpendicular side due to tool flex..hense my angle plate..and a vise will not "lift" your part if you are in contact with the full height of the jaws.
Procedure is fine. Not using a fly cutter or a cutter big enough to cut smaller parts is something I disagree with. I would never use 3 passes to cut across something 1" wide. The only other problem is you didn't share that you needed to make sure your head was true before you started. I know that should be a given but some people might think that it is not needed with that procedure.
Although I know this method, what if a block comes in way off square? we will typically scribe it get it close, then vise it mill it. Ok got one flat, now turn upside down and use paralel & rod & mill it. Now we have two perfect planes. 1&4. Now do 2&3 the same way. 2nd step mill to specs. For the ends we indicate it vertically and do both ends. In 1959 , thats how we did it. Shapers too. Sorry to say but with a shaper 10 min job with a 2 cent HSS bit. whatever works for you. good vidio
I've machined a long time, I guess I'm the new school. I only learned this method a few months ago. My boss said to do it that was and I tried it but when I checked the part to see if it was square it wasn't. So I went back to the way I know makes it perfect. I definetly never square the 5th side with a square like that. And I don't do it with something round in the jaw. Try that with a bigger part and check if it's actually square, not parallel. You'll be surprised
What you should have done was chuck up the part over to the right of the vise. You then can cut the top and the r.h. side both. This insures that you now have two surfaces that are 90 degrees to one another. After that, you put the r.h. side that was machined on to the parallel and the top surface that was machined to your stationary jaw. Also never tap a part down with a metal piece, it will bounce the part off of the parallel
If my project is an aluminium block, sized at 63.5mm x 63.5mm x 50mm. I need to make it to 50mm x 60mm x 40mm. So, is the method of squaring up the same with your video? I'm using fly cutter.
Thanks Marty. Procedures like this are second nature to guys like us who have spent our lives doing it, but they can be a real mystery to someone just starting out. My goal with these videos is to present as many of these basic procedures as possible to help out the new machinist. That's a good point about climb milling on the part to reduce burrs. I do it all the time without even thinking. I'll make a note on the video pointing it out. Thanks for taking the time to comment. Tom
I'm gonna go ahead and listen to this guy. He has obviously cranked some mill handles, probably wore down a few lead screws in his time. I like the no nonsense, taking the part to size, on the first dimension.
A half a thou is close enough in probably 99% of the world and 99%of applications for a square aluminum block. Man there are a lot of armchair machinists here.
Dont you have to tighten the part after taping it, and inst climb milling only used in finishing cuts, especially if your part is not tightened like that?
i do it simalar but i use a piece of 1 inch or half inch 1018 steel rod. i have two with the oil coat still on it. and two that are polished and cleared.
I wouldn't use a ball peen hammer. That would do too much damage especially on aluminum. I would go with a plastic headed hammer or a dead blow hammer.
Thanks. You may want to try using the ball or edge of a ball pein on rough sawed surfaces, it works much better than anything I've tried. But yes, plastic is appropriate for finished surfaces. Tom
The wire conforms to an irregular surface (sawed part), to better grip the part. Without it, the moveable jaw would only be pushing on one point, and that might be at the end of the part. If that happens, the part can rotate in the jaws when you start machining it. Tom
No matter how much you think you know, there's always something new to learn. I've been doing this for more than forty years and still discover new and better ways of doing things.
Tom
All you negative folks out there need to grow a pair and give the man the respect due for trying to share these videos..I'd hate to see the folks that post these videos get fed up with all you jackasses and stop trying to help those of us that listen because of it.
i could not agree more !
All vises allow the work to rise when you clamp it (even my Kurt), so tapping the work down is a normal part of the procedure when milling. Glad you got some useful tips from the video.
This is such an awesome bit of machine lore.
I'm a hobby machinist, and don't do this often enough to totally memorize the process. But today is my nTh viewing (always come back for a refresher) and I think I may be finally 'getting' it! Thanks for all your good info, Tom!
Good to hear!
Tom
Thanks, but that's an old worn out file that I been using for years just for deburring and it's actually better off that way. Nice new files don't work well for deburring because they tend to chatter. When I get around to doing a video on filing, I'll concentrate more on proper technique, but not for something as mundane as deburring.
Been a Tool Maker / CNC Programmer for 27years I watched this video and was like of course this is how u square a block I guess I thought everyone was taught 2 square blocks this way, until I read the comments and am blown away that there's machinist out there that never were taught this. Only diffrence I would say is I don't use a ball pien hammer I use a dead blow and after having 3sides milled I then put in 2 parallels instead of 1 but apart from that I've always used a pin if I don't have 2ground sides across from each other. Don't try and tap block down until u have a ground edge against non moving jaw and edge sitting on parallel u will fight a loosing battle is the only other tip I can give, allow the back jaw and pin in front 2square ur block until u have a milled surface 2sit on parallel. Nice vid.
The basic formula for rpm is four times the cutting speed of the material divided by the diameter of the end mill. In this case I was using a 1/2" end mill and cutting aluminum, which has a cutting speed of 250 surface feet per minute, so 4 X 250 /.5= 2000 rpm.
To be really sure it's square, remember to clean all the chips off between the changing of sides. They get everywhere. :)
Especially UNDER the parallel. I can't believe that this guy didn't even once check or clean the chips down there.
Thanks Richard.
My videos are definitely geared toward beginning students because that's who I worked with when I started teaching. It's a lot of fun to get back to teaching again.
I am hard at work on a website that will make it much easier to browse the videos and offer something new that I call project tutorials where I provide drawings for a useful project and then build it start to finish. They will include many different machining processes and have different levels of difficulty.
Tom
Thank you for your very clear and straightforward video. No distracting music, unnecessary graphics and other attempts to be cool and funny. I learned what I needed to learn - totally new at this. Not only did I learn how to square everything, your additional hints that you mention in passing are very informative. It was like watching Penn and Teller show how they do their tricks. Obvious when you know how - but I didn't! Thanks again.
Thanks John.
When you aren't cool or funny, there is no sense trying to promote it. ;)
Thanks for watching
Tom
Thank you...I followed all your steps...works great....I need a mini machinists square to line up the end surface.l.but the rest of technique worked wonders.
Thank you! Been battling to square up, finally got it right. It’s a janky hobby combo machine but in by 0.02 mm which is good enough for me.
Square is a term I've heard for many years as a machinist for 40+ years. It all depends on. WHAT the part is going to be used for as far as the process of squaring up blocks, .0002 squares needed or .005 good enough. If .005 was good enough, side milling ends would work to save time. If more accuracy is needed, use head with indicator instead of square. First side should should be clamped, but NOT pounded down. Also, vise jaws are not always square with the world as we all think, especially if you clamp tight, it can move jaw out of square slightly
If you think .0002 is a tolerance you think you can keep on a mill.....
You are a liar when you say that you have been in the trade 40 plus years !!!
Wanna challenge me.... go ahead .... lets see who makes more sence....
Perhaps we could let people on a machine shop site decide who knows what they are talking about in REAL world situations ???
@@steveattree9674 could be referring to a cnc.
Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it and learned something from it. I have a few other ideas for videos, just need to get busy and make them.
People are really trying to knock this guy. If at the end of the day he is happy with the amount of time spent, the tooling lifespan, and the dimensional correctness of the part he delivers then is there anything wrong with how he arrived there? It fits his purposes fine. Shoot in my hobby machining I do things differently than I see a lot of machinists do on TH-cam. Not because their method is wrong but because my smaller machines just can’t handle the methods used with larger industrial machines.
Quite frankly I found it to be a rather informative video. Good content. 👍
And for god sakes people stop worrying about the ball peen hammer. The surfaces he strikes are already marred up from sawing...🙄
This was exactly the method I just learned in my machinist class, and is outlined in the NIMS textbook. The only variation we learned was for milling sides 5 and 6: if the piece is a long rectangle you might not want too much standing up in a vise, so simply raise the bench and run the side of the end mill over the sides of the workpiece. Good video thank you!
Tom, We are not on the correct video for my question, but here we go.
Just watched a video cutting a keyway/slot on each side(in line and oposite sides) of a shaft. quite a wide keyway and the method used to align the Top Dead Centre of the shaft and cut the second slot I would say was not the most accurate. If a narrow keyway was to be cut that method would not have worked. I do have in mind something as to how it could be done but how about you doing a short video and show how you can cut two keyways on opposite sides and be perfectly in line. To the 0.001 if possible. I enjoy your teaching methods and thanks to you and some other guys for the time to upload this stuff. regards
A keyway on each side of a shaft is pretty unusual, so I don't think a video would be justified. There are lots of ways to do it though. The easiest would be to simply hold the shaft in a dividing head and index the shaft 180º to cut the two keyways. If a dividing head is not available and the shaft was 1" or smaller, it could be held in a collet block and the block held in the vise and flipped to cut the keyway on the opposite side. If the shaft was too large for a collet, a V-block could be clamped to it and squared to the table with the shaft held in the vise.
Feel free to contact me through my website (tomstechniques.com) for random questions. It's a lot easier than trying to communicate through TH-cam.
Tom
Toms Techniques Apologies i omitted to say the keyways were on opposite ends of the shaft not 180 degrees to each other. opposite ends same Top dead centre and the shaft long enough so it had to be taken off the bed to turn around. So you could not just lower the work down and wind the cutter to the other sideThanks for the reply
CHRISTOS TSANDAS Ah, that makes more sense. I would just clamp the shaft in a couple of V-blocks and align them to the tee slot in the table. The slots on my mill are .625 wide and take a 5/8" parallel nicely. I can just push the work against the parallels and know that it is parallel with the table.
Tom
FINALLY someone who thinks outside the box. You wouldn't believe the amount of flak I'm taken over using that ball pein hammer in the video. ;)
Ball peins are smaller than pretty much any other hammer so you can hold the part with your fingers and feel when it sits down on the parallels. Like you say, any marks will be machined away. A lot of techniques I use are outside the norm but I use them because they work.
Thanks.
Tom
Thanks Vince.
Side milling is a good option for long or thin parts, but only as a last resort. You''ll get a part that is more square if you face mill or fly-cut because you won't get the cutter deflection that you get when side milling. I normally side mill when squaring up plate stock.
Glad you enjoyed the video.
Tom
Good point.
Burrs on the part and chips under the part are the two biggest problems when squaring up stock. You can do everything right and still not end up with a square part if you don't deal with the burrs and chips. I keep a brush hanging on the side of the machine and a file within reach.
Tom
In in a machining class currently, just got my MMS bout to get my bench work planning and layout. We recently used a mill to face off a block of aluminum. my teacher told me that you always cut by bringing the stock from right to left with the drill spinning clockwise. while doing it in class i asked why you cant make a second pass going from left to right, didn't get much of an answer except that you dont do it haha. Could someone please help me with this. I know what my teacher said to do is conventional milling and the other way is climb milling, i saw that you said it makes less of a burr and ive read it makes better surface finish. is there any reason you would do one or the other or both at the same time. Also we have been taught to use a dead-blow hammer for setting stock in the vice, i trust there is some explanation for using one or the other if someone could explain that as well. much appreciated!
Your teacher is probably being cautious about climb milling because those just starting out don't have a good feel about how to deal with the forces involved. In reality though, with light cuts like this it doesn't really matter if you are climb milling or not while facing. Nothing is going to move.
I prefer using the edge of a ball pein hammer over a dead blow because it's easier to feel when a part is seated on the parallels. Of course that only applies to rough surfaces that will be machined, because it leaves marks. Finished parts require some sort of soft hammer.
Tom
I've been using this procedure for the past forty years or so and it's worked just fine, so I guess I have to disagree with your disagreement. ;)
Thanks for shearing your machining skill
I am a retired tool & die maker, and you are doing this the hard way to square a block. After squaring 4 sides, put the block roughly square in the vise and machine the 5th side BUT now mark the side that is square to the back jaw with a marker, also mark the 5th side as it will need to be milled a second time. Now turn the block over, 180 degrees and put the squared side 90 degrees to the back jaw, machine the 6th side which is now square in 2 planes. again turn the block 180 degrees and finish machining the 5th side again which was before only square in one plane. no need for indicators or squaring devices. Remember , the vice is nothing more than an angle plate with a clamp attached. Also, to try to tap a tall block with a hammer is a waste of time. the vice will always lift up a small amount, but if you tighten it the same each time, it will repeat within .001 every time. I also used to use a piece of body filler lead in stick form to use for uneven surfaces . Also , using a fly cutter, the head must be trammed square and if your machine is older and worn, it will also affect squareness, a smaller diameter cutter will work better in this case.
You know as well as I do Glenn, that there are many different approaches in machining to accomplish the same thing. You should share your knowledge via a video as I do, so others can benefit from it. I understand what you are saying, but most novice machinists will not.
Tom
You got it right with squaring 6 sides, too few machinists are aware, the total squareness depends on the condition of machine or vise,
Don't want to sound mean.... and yes it does work in pracitcal and theory.....however, if the block can fit in your vice like most pieces and you comfortable with the squarness of the head. ( please forgive any incorrect grammar) you put the part in the vice but with about 75% of th part exposed out of the top of the vice... and one side totally off to the left hand side of the vice.... clean up the top work to flatten that side. 1 side done.... keep part in vice move endmill to side on solid vice ( back side...) climb mill that side to close to dimension..so now you have two sides done and are square as edge..
Now lift the knee then the now cut the left hads side ..? Lower table and machine sides açcordling...now you have top and 4 sides square and parallel....
Change parallel s to shorter ,tap down part and repeat process and a 6 sided square block will bi in the vice that is parallel congratulating all that in 2 setup instead of 6 regrips and square ...sounds like a lot of work while reading... but as perfect as your mill...and no hand tools needed
For this particular procedure it's not necessary that the solid jaws of the vise be parallel to the table because all the milling is performed on the top surface. However, unless you are purposely making an angled cut on a part, the vise jaws should always be kept parallel to the table, just as the head should always be kept perpendicular to the table. I have a video showing a quick way to indicate the solid jaw on a vise, it's called "Indicate the vise on a milling machine in just one pass".
The quill is not calibrated as accurately as the knee, it's meant for drilling only. Whenever you are milling, the quill should be locked. To mill a part to a specific thickness you would take a cut and set the dial on the knee to zero, measure the part to see how much you need to remove, raise the knee by that amount and take a finish cut.
Nice lesson and sharing control of sides through marking. Agree the ball ping hammer is something I will try and see if it provide to me any difference , it is good to try new things, well new to me anyways after 40 plus machining years.
Thanks. And a big thumbs up for someone with an open mind. :)
Yeah, this comment has been beaten to death so to speak. As I said before, the ball pein is only used on rough sawed surfaces. I have a nice plastic mallet to use on the finished ones. You might want to delve outside the box a bit and give the old ball pein a try. They work great.
Thanks!
Not sure why you wouldn't climb mill, unless you have a smaller mill that lacks rigidity. Climb milling is perfectly acceptable on larger, more rigid machines and in fact provides a better surface finish than conventional milling, especially on aluminum.
Is the block already machined? If so, you won't need to go through the squaring process, just machine three sides to get it to your final dimension. If the block is not machined, then square it up and to size just like I did in the video.
Tom
An end milled part will be more square than a side milled part because there is no flex in the end mill. Side milling is fine for panels and other thin parts, or if there is no other option, but I always end mill thicker parts if possible.
You are correct, but you can't assume any of the faces are parallel until they have been machined. The wire is only used on surfaces that have not been machined, such as sawed or rolled (mill) surfaces.
I do drywall some day I will machine. Or prostitute !!!!!!!
You mean when you get tired of the dust?
a piece fo leather belt works great in place of the alum. rod, it tends to give more support and compresses for any high or low spots.
As long as your pants don't fall down while you are using it. ;)
Nice you took the time to put this out there! I have interviewed a lot of people for tool maker positions and I always ask to explain how to square a block. As mentioned There are a few ways depending on accuracy required. One thing we did is grind the side block on the vice square so a 123 block can be screwed on as a rail for that last side. Helps save time when you have a lot of blocks. Check out the video by lindquist steels showing how they square up blocks. Now that's fast!
Hi Tom hope you read this and my other messages. I am eager to learn all you will give. Ive always use a slide calculator to figure out feed rate. I'd like to know how to long hand it. I have tried to learn from books but I'm confused by the math? Can you do video's on how to use grinding attachment like spinners for ejector pins and cores in tool building please? One more thing how to grind radius on core pins via attachment on surface grinders? Thank you.
They are just ordinary two flute high speed steel end mills. I get most of mine from McMaster Carr.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video.
Tom
A rawhide hammer is better for tapping down 'cause it doesn't 'bounce,' or mark the work!
For the second to the last face, wouldn't it have been easier and less error prone (no square necessary) to have kept the part oriented the way it had been, and just scoot it out past the end of the vise, cutting it with the side of the cutter rather than the bottom? Then, you could do the last face as you had done all the previous ones, if you wanted.
I'm not a machinist, just learning. That makes more sense to me, though.
An end milled part will always be more square than a side milled part due to deflection of the cutter. Also, if you hold a part on one end of the jaws, the other side should be supported with a machinists jack to keep the jaws from cocking. What you describe works well for squaring up thin parts.
Tom
Great! Thanks!
Tom, I was thinking this over some more--not trying to quibble. Using the end of the cutter would actually be more leverage on the tool than using the side of it, say half way up (or even further!). In fact, that would be the most leverage you could put on the tool, being at the very tip.
The only problem left would be to have to put another piece of the same size on the other end of the vise to make sure it clamps straight.
Am I missing something?
Thanks for your time!
Maybe it's the fact that on the end, you're using only one edge of the cutter, whereas using the end of the cutter, both (or all) blades are cutting. Still, you're feeding it which would seem to me to cause deflection.
Jay Williams
When you side mill, there is much more of the tool in contact with the work than with end milling and that causes the cutter to deflect. That leverage you are talking about makes the end mill deflect more at the bottom than the top and actually creates a curved surface. Not the best result when you are trying to machine a flat surface. When end milling, you take much shallower cuts, so tool deflection is minimal. Also when end milling a large surface, multiple passes are required, so any deflection is averaged between passes. That creates a surface that has some local irregularities but is very flat globally.
Tom
Haw many dents did the ball end of that ball pein hammer put in that soft aluminium.
Doesn't matter. They all get machined off. It's those dents that help seat the part without it bouncing.
Clear is good, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I was a shaper hand in the early 70's. Mostly squared stock for a tool and die company. Everything came in sawed pretty close so there wasn't much stock to remove. Occasionally I would get to shape to a curved line for a blanking die which was fun, although a bit nerve racking. We would get chewed out if we left too much stock and lose our job if we "crossed the line" too many times. Shapers went away shortly after that, replaced by horizontal mills and Blanchard grinders. Just too slow I guess.
The thumbs up thumbs down feature of TH-cam is totally meaningless because it requires absolutely no explanation. If those 15 people had to provide an explanation to justify their thumbs down rating, there would probably be a lot fewer than 15.
The magnets are a good idea for holding the bar in place.
Tom
Over the years I've found that a simple ball pein works as well or better than a dead blow or lead hammer: They are small so the part doesn't need to be moved as far from the cutter for access, using the ball end feels exactly the same as a dead blow (try it you'll be surprised), and it's one less hammer taking up space in the tool box. Obviously you would not use a ball pein on a finished surface, but for squaring up a rough sawed part they can't be beat.
I can see where that would help, but if I was going to take an extra step, I'd rather use the technique described by Andrew Bauer below. He side cuts the block with the Y axis, just wide enough to sit on the parallel after squaring up #4, then then places it against the parallel to square up #5, flips the block and squares #6, then finishes up #5. I've been trying to adopt his technique, but after doing it "my way" for the last 40 years, it's not easy. What's that adage about old dogs?
Tom
This is actually a variation on the traditional method which rotates the part toward the solid jaw one adjacent side at a time. I prefer this method because it references everything back to the original surface. There is nothing theoretical about it, if done correctly either technique will produce a square part.
I would end mill the four sides of the bar and side mill the ends. Side milling makes sense on long slender parts like bar stock, but on larger more square parts, end milling would be more appropriate.
Tom....just a home shop guy here......great video, great education, I will try the wire method. I have been using a ball that has a flat milled on it which the flat sits against the moveable jaw
If the solid jaw on your vise is square then you should have no problem tapping the part down on the parallels regardless of size. Indicate the solid jaw, on your vise on both the X axis and Z axis (move the table, not the head) to be sure. Also make sure the head of your mill is perpendicular to the table, especially if using a fly cutter. The procedure I've outlined will create a square part, but the machine must to be properly set up or you'll just transfer any misalignment to the part.
As do I, but only after finishing two surfaces at right angles to each other. It doesn't make sense to de-burr before that because the side against the parallel will be sawed anyway.
Thanks, but a ball pein is my preference for many reasons; they are small, readily available and work very well as long as you use the ball end or the edge. In fact, it is much easier to feel when a part is down tight on the parallels with a ball pein than a dead blow. If I'm working on a finished surface, I just use a small nylon faced hammer to tap the part down. You may want to give it a try.
Coolant can be used to allow higher feeds and speeds, especially on steel, but it is optional. In this case I'm taking light cuts in aluminum, so coolant isn't necessary at all.
You never tighten the vise after tapping the part down, that would risk lifting the part off the parallels again. Tighten it first, then tap the part down and take the cut.
Climb milling can be used at any time on a rigid machine like this. If you are using a lightweight machine such as a bench mill, climb milling should be limited to a finish cut.
Thanks for commenting.
I prefer the feel and size of a ball pein over other types of hammers on rough surfaces. If I was working on a part that was already machined, I would use a plastic hammer.
Sticking small parts out the end of the vise if fine for larger parts, but on a small part like this it's asking for trouble. The vise won't grip the part evenly and the risk of it moving is high. A side milled part also won't be as square as an end milled part due to flex in the end mill.
You can take deep cuts in steel as well, but it takes experience to know when it's appropriate. Plunge cutting with long end mills is a good example of when climb milling is appropriate. I have a thread in the gunsmithing section of metalworkingfun where I mill a deep pocket in steel with a 1/4" by 3" end mill and climb cut it. It also takes rigid machinery. I wouldn't try much climb milling on a bench mill. In cases like this, I like to climb around the edges so it doesn't raise a burr.
The spindle should always be perpendicular to the table. If not, your end mills won't generate a flat surface (particularly noticeable with larger end mills and fly cutters) and the holes you drill won't be square to the parts.
Thanks for the comments Kevin, but I have already explained in these comments why the part is centered in the vise, why I don't like to side mill and why I use a ball pein hammer. Check out the comments and give it a try.
The reason I use soft aluminum wire is that it will conform to the irregular surface of a sawed part. Steel rods will work on a flat surface but may not hold as well on an irregular one.
That's an interesting variation and there is nothing wrong with doing it that way. The only problem is that it takes a tool change and an extra step, meaning that it would take longer to do over just using a square.
Thanks for pointing it out.
Tom
How square you can get a part definitely depends on how good your square is and also on the size of the part. Yes, I can get a part that small square within .001". The square I'm using in the video is a Brown & Sharp master precision square. I think it's square within a tenth in six inches.
My 2 cents is that this technique while perhaps is not the fastest, is the purest. Doing a top surface and then a side surface (with the block over the edge of vise with the side of the end mill) introduces both vise and head tram issues unnecessarily at this crucial point. I am struggling with the fact people are giving you grief over the hammer Tom!
Tim
Thanks Tim.
I wonder how many of those who were appalled by my use of the ball pein had enough of an open mind to try it? I'll bet not many, which is unfortunate because my videos are full of non standard techniques that save time and work very well.
Tom
Dear mettaling
Ohh so close...
You only put the minimal amount in the vice like 75% out of vice , then you do 4 sides as close to the vice as possible being sure to use the knee, not the quill then you do the top. Then you flip it over tap with a hammer ( I have a big chunk of bronze) .. then you match up the remainder of the 4 sides,
Then what used to be the bottom. That way your block is as square as you can possibly get it .
Only open the vice once , and don't have keep turing the mill off and on .
THERE'S A BETTER WAY USING NO SQ AND EYE SITE. AFTER THE FOUR SIDES ARE DONE MOVE THE CUTTER TO THE SIDE DROP INTO THE WORK TWICE THE THICKNESS OF THE PARALLEL.. THEN SET THAT EDGE DOWN ON THE PARALLEL .TAKES THE GUESS WORK OUT OF SURFACES 5&6. YOU DEPEND ON THE VISE BEING SQ...I DID IT LIKE YOU FOR 30+ YEARS TILL I SEEN IT DONE (TH-cam).TORMACH SIMPLICITY AND VERY AND ACCURATE. PEACE
Hi Tom, have just read all the comments on your video and it seems a number of your viewers are wassocks (foreigners can google the meaning). How can 15 people dislike your work? It may not be the only method, it may not be the best but it is a good method, good enough for all but the most very critical of purposes. Rather than use a bit of wire, I use a piece of 1/2" Dia. alloy bar flattened to a "D" shape with two small magnets embedded in the flat side. The magnets hold it on the moving jaw.
The arm is part of a work stop. If you have more than one part to make, the stop will locate each part so you don't need to find the edge every time you put another part in.
Tom
You are welcome.
The moveable jaw of the vise has freedom of movement about the Z axis, but not the X axis. Using a wire or rod between the part and jaw compensates for that.
Thanks Andrew.
I think that's the same technique the last poster described. It'll create the same end result but like you say, using one extra step. That's the fun thing about machining, there are many different ways of accomplishing the same thing.
Tom
Nope, high speed steel. I'll use carbide on tool steels or if I need the extra stiffness but generally high speed steel will produce a better surface finish, especially on aluminum.
Thank you for the taking the time to make this video.
nice video but you really need to get a soft hammer for setting the part in the vice, I don't think hitting aluminum with a steel ball pein hammer is such a good way to do it. A proper dead blow plastic type is a much better choice. cheers
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Milling bar stock is pretty much the same technique. You'll need a set of thin parallels and since you'll be working very close to the vise jaws, you'll need to be careful. Basically machine one side flat, place it against the solid jaw and machine the 2 adjoining sides square and to size. Then clamp it in the vise with the remaining side up and machine that to size. The ends can then be side milled to length.
Yes, using another part to space the jaws is an option as is using a machinists jack or an adjustable parallel.
Flex in an end mill is not negligible. They all flex and longer ones can flex considerably. You'll always get a part that is more square by end milling which is why I prefer to do it that way, and do it that way in this demo. Proper use of a square is a learned skill and comes from experience, just like the feel when miking a part or when using a telescoping gauge.
Great video! I have used several techniques. his is one of the best. It would be great for beginning machine shop students. I will recommend your channel to my community college machining instructors and classmates. I make the Z adjustments by raising the table. Thanks again.
I cant understand why are you using one parallel instead two and you trying to find the vertical position with hammer?
Thanks, kostas :)
Is it best to have the head perfectly trammed or leave an angle for a leading edge on the end mill ??? Thanks alot for the help !!!
It depends on the situation. It can be difficult to measure a part held in the mill vise so sometimes it's easier to just take it out for a measurement. As long as you tap the part back down tight on the parallels removing it will have little effect on accuracy. On a lathe, it's perfectly acceptable to remove a part held in a collet, but generally not a good idea with a three jaw or four jaw chuck because it would be difficult to return the part to the same position without indicating it.
Tom
I noticed that you used the knee to adjust the depth of cut. Is there a reason to choose adjusting the knee versus the quill?
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
That was a joke son, ya can't measure that accurately with calipers.
At about 4:30 in the video I take one dimension of the block to a specific size, checking it with calipers. Basically all you do is take a cut and set the dial on the table to zero, measure the part, move the table up the required amount and take a finish cut.
I'm using a 1/2" two flute end mill in this video and the mill is a DoAll variable speed milling machine, much like a Bridgeport.
Tom
I've tried, on both manual and CNC machines, old and new. The jaw is always perfectly perp. II "un-teach" the old-school method to new toolmakers that just got out of school. Some balk at first but come around when they can't produce a square block. The new toolmakers that come with decades of experience have abandoned this method long ago. I honestly don't understand why it doesn't work. It should, in theory If your back jaw is perp and your part is tight to it...
kinda cool but i just use starret hold dwns mill a side put that dwn boom 2 parralel sides no need to use the wire multiple times...but if all u guys really want the most square part you would use an angle plate...not that tom here is wrong im sure hes prolly bout .0002 out of square at most...n he knows his shit side milling will create a less perpendicular side due to tool flex..hense my angle plate..and a vise will not "lift" your part if you are in contact with the full height of the jaws.
Procedure is fine. Not using a fly cutter or a cutter big enough to cut smaller parts is something I disagree with. I would never use 3 passes to cut across something 1" wide. The only other problem is you didn't share that you needed to make sure your head was true before you started. I know that should be a given but some people might think that it is not needed with that procedure.
Although I know this method, what if a block comes in way off square? we will
typically scribe it get it close, then vise it mill it. Ok got one flat, now turn upside down
and use paralel & rod & mill it. Now we have two perfect planes. 1&4. Now do 2&3
the same way. 2nd step mill to specs. For the ends we indicate it vertically and do both ends. In 1959 , thats how we did it. Shapers too. Sorry to say but with a shaper 10 min job with a 2 cent HSS bit. whatever works for you. good vidio
I've machined a long time, I guess I'm the new school. I only learned this method a few months ago. My boss said to do it that was and I tried it but when I checked the part to see if it was square it wasn't. So I went back to the way I know makes it perfect. I definetly never square the 5th side with a square like that. And I don't do it with something round in the jaw. Try that with a bigger part and check if it's actually square, not parallel. You'll be surprised
What you should have done was chuck up the part over to the right of the vise. You then can cut the top and the r.h. side both. This insures that you now have two surfaces that are 90 degrees to one another. After that, you put the r.h. side that was machined on to the parallel and the top surface that was machined to your stationary jaw. Also never tap a part down with a metal piece, it will bounce the part off of the parallel
Helps understand flatness and reference . I had to apologize to the engineer I worked with. Also qualifying any square I come across .
If my project is an aluminium block, sized at 63.5mm x 63.5mm x 50mm. I need to make it to 50mm x 60mm x 40mm. So, is the method of squaring up the same with your video?
I'm using fly cutter.
Thanks Marty.
Procedures like this are second nature to guys like us who have spent our lives doing it, but they can be a real mystery to someone just starting out. My goal with these videos is to present as many of these basic procedures as possible to help out the new machinist.
That's a good point about climb milling on the part to reduce burrs. I do it all the time without even thinking. I'll make a note on the video pointing it out.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Tom
I'm gonna go ahead and listen to this guy. He has obviously cranked some mill handles, probably wore down a few lead screws in his time. I like the no nonsense, taking the part to size, on the first dimension.
A half a thou is close enough in probably 99% of the world and 99%of applications for a square aluminum block. Man there are a lot of armchair machinists here.
Dont you have to tighten the part after taping it, and inst climb milling only used in finishing cuts, especially if your part is not tightened like that?
i do it simalar but i use a piece of 1 inch or half inch 1018 steel rod. i have two with the oil coat still on it. and two that are polished and cleared.
I wouldn't use a ball peen hammer. That would do too much damage especially on aluminum. I would go with a plastic headed hammer or a dead blow hammer.
Hello,
When you did your 5th and 6th side cut, why did you not lay your part sideways and surfaced it using the side of your end mill?
You can climb mill when you are taking light cuts and especially in aluminum. If you are taking deep cuts in steel I wouldn't climb cut.
Thanks.
You may want to try using the ball or edge of a ball pein on rough sawed surfaces, it works much better than anything I've tried. But yes, plastic is appropriate for finished surfaces.
Tom
old vid but whats with the welding wire I don't get it
The wire conforms to an irregular surface (sawed part), to better grip the part. Without it, the moveable jaw would only be pushing on one point, and that might be at the end of the part. If that happens, the part can rotate in the jaws when you start machining it.
Tom
The aluminium wire does work well so does a piece of stiff leather if you have no wire at the time. :o]
O,,,
Guess I must have grown an extra hand somewhere along the way over the last 45 years, because I don't think twice about using the square. :)
Tom