Don't treat it gently - I review The New Favero Assioma PRO MX Power Meter
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.พ. 2024
- Favero link: bit.ly/42BC3nK
Thanks again, to all the Patrons.
Patreon.com/peaktorque
PT Merch: peak-torque.com
15% off for Patrons
Again, thanks to Veloforte, my favourite natural and delicious fuel supplier:
PeakT-20 is the code @ tidd.ly/45uc9Db
Other links of interest:
Control tyre (GP5000) - tidd.ly/3GEF512
Powermeter (Assioma) - tidd.ly/3Z98OXb
Reference powermeter (quarq) - tidd.ly/3WJx9Bn
Head unit:
amzn.to/3C5xMwQ - UK link
amzn.to/3G3sEKM - US link
105 Rim brake holy grail groupset bargain - tidd.ly/3BNlkSb - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Peak Torque: has a major off and worries about his data capturing before his knackered knee. True engineer.
😂 all you tech geeks who follow this channel I’m not so sure. Been riding these for a whole year now and no one noticed. I thought better of you all.
@@PeakTorque 4K screen too. Inexcusable.
Nah. Proper cyclist haha.
Especially when you consider that he weighs approximately 970 pounds.
@@grahamwynde1176 did you mean to post at top level?
I marked today in my calendar because I knew they were launched today.
This video was a VERY welcome surprise. Thanks PT, once again.
Congrats on being able to test them for so long before the official release. 👍
Some people at Garmin will be sad because it looks like there is no reason to buy Rally XC now. 😅
Dunno, I'd maybe buy the Rally if they were half the price of the Favero. Maybe.
@@JulianKentthose Rallies are huge AF
There was never a reason. Favero Assioma Shimanos work with Shimano SPD bodies.
If you're using Python anyway, you can align those measurements pretty easily by minimizing root mean square error. Basically, subtract one line from the other, square the differences, average over all of them (or just sum them*), take the root of that number (not really necessary*). Do that for different offsets (shift one of the lines along the x axis), choose the offset with the lowest resulting RMSE.
* (for the purpose of finding the offset with minimal error)
I knew someone would help, I’ll try that. Still learning, I’m very beginner level. Prefer nuts and bolts! 🎉
go ride your bike! ;)
As always great technical review ❤
Great vid! I ran the Assioma Duo road to SPD pedal conversion for a while on the gravel bike but stopped doing that because of fear of smashing up the pods. Running a Stages GRX left-sided crank-based PM now. It looks like I should have held out a bit longer to go with these, they look like top quality just like the road ones. Keep up the good work, your tech videos are the best!
Superb review and analysis. I have been considering getting some Favero road pedals for a while. Now that they have your seal of approval I think I can feel confident getting them.
Glad to help! A year of battering and no issues.
@@PeakTorque I'd be putting them through a similar thrashing. New England winter riding looks about as bad as England winter riding!
tremendous video. so much awesome technical detail that i haven't been able to find anywhere else
Cheers
Glad to see European engineering doing great things.
True. But am I blind or do they look 100% like the SRM pedals?!
These explanations are very useful. I am thinking of a pedal power meter.
Great review. They will definitely be what I get if I ever decide to get power on my MTB.
A first class explanation. Thank you. Now subscribed.
Favero knocks it out of the park again. They are an italian company which makes affordable, top quality and top functioning electronics for cycling. Colour me impressed...
Their first gen power meter (the BePro) was a huge PITA to set up and I had issues with accuracy that were never resolved even after a calibration, but with the Assioma they really knocked it out of the park and I think they've upped the ante once again with this one. I will have to start setting money aside because I will want this on my gravel bike or a future XC bike for sure!
hahh, yes, the BePro is overmeasured the power with 5-15% by default (due to the very poor factory slope calibration), and because lack of auto-angle monitoring, if the axle is rotating a bit, the installing angle is changing (which is needed to the power calculation), but it remained on the old value, the whole power calculation was off (you had to reverse pedaling, that set the new angle value, but it could rotate a tiny bit day by day... so the best was to do this reverse pedaling everyday , or throw out the pedals). in the Assioma the better slope calibration and the auto-angle monitoring help "lightyears" in POV of power accuracy.
Thanks for the review. Been waiting for this kind of product. I use MTB cleats with my road bike.
Great review, thanks.
Fascinating! Even more when you look up the price of this tech! I've subscribed to this channel a long time to see what tech I'll be riding in 20 years! My 45 year old classic has 9 speed cassette, 50 year old derailleurs, and 10 speed chain and spacing. I blew $1300 on a new bike last year with Sora. Man, that 9 speed stuff is dirt cheap and ironclad! It's amazing how much gear range a road bike can still have, and still close ratio with a 24- 44 set of chainrings. Somebody's got to pay for tech, but it isn't me! The industry has it wrong post pandemic!
Early Assioma adopter here - got mine in late 2017. They’ve been flawless and I still use them almost daily on several bikes. Battery life is still great. Highly recommend!
on my wishlist for this year's black Friday sales :-)
Favero never disappoints.
Interesting about the peanut, does that impact lessen as you go down the drivetrain? e.g. a hub based PM or even a smart-trainer?
Excellent stuff! Glad the pedals survived the crash. Bit of placenta for the knee and it will be good as new lol. Now I need an excuse to replace the Stages
Can’t wait till Black Friday to get them!
Favero continually nail it with their products.
had my old faveros for 3 years now , still great , wish they could make an spd body that could fit onto the spindle of the old ones, id buy that in a heart beat.
Great video, Favero make some good kit (unlike a lot of the bike products on the market) I picked up their road pedals back in 2018, they have been faultless despite a number of bad crashes in things like crit races (although I did need replace the pedals bodies from the crashes, easy, cheap, powers still accurate) + Batteries still work like a gem.
Ive been using assioma duo Shi pedal axles inside shimano M520. Ive had a few nasty pedal strikes without problems, obviously not as ideal as these (and not warrantied) but still works for me. Pretty sure they weigh a ton more than those too! Maybe someday I will upgrade to those. lighter and cheaper than the Garmin pedals. Also at 14:18 "Let me just put my pen on" - Oh boy I thought I was watching Hambini for a second.
I'm not really a "brand loyal" type of person, but I vouch for Favero whenever possible due to the Duo road pedals I have from them. Maybe not the cheapest power meter in the game, but for quality there's no better bargain to be had. And, even though they're on my road bike, they've been through a pretty bad crash and come out the other side perfectly fine.
Same. I’m basically an unpaid Favero salesman now.
Hows the battery’s health doing since day 1 from using? BTW.. very informative review!👍
Also, kinda missed if you checked the 62HRC claim. Dremeling and etching to figure out the hardened layer thickness would have been good too
Ok, i'm sold, i will get these
impressive giving a technical presentation with no interruptions while riding a gravel bike! How is the front camera being supported? Drone? Very out-front mount?
It’s an X3 camera on a carbon pole. Still very flexy. Got a much stiffer support for the next one where I’m mounting a brace on the fork crown mudguard mount!
@@PeakTorque I did wonder if it wasn't mounted to the fork
How did you mount your 360 cam onto the flat handlebars?
I totally trust your thoughts on this because you clearly are an intelligent engineer. The pedals are not rated for Enduro, does a rear suspension potentially lessen the load on the pedals vs. a hardtail mtb or gravel bike coming down a very chunky gravel "road"? Meaning the peak loads on the pedals would actually be worse on a gravel bike?
Favero are claiming stack height is 11.2 mm yet Shimano states their XTR is 15.1 mm. You mentioned that you measured the Favero as being taller though? UPDATE : the favero pedals true stack height is 17.9 mm. Favero don't include cleats and shimano do.
Wonder if new Assiomas without pod everything in the axle are on the way?
When will we have the road version?
7 mins @ 410W 💪
Do you think it's possible they release an updated road pedal with all the tech inside the pedal instead of having the pod? Do you think they will? - Not sure I see a reason to to be honest, none of the pedals seem to have issues with breaking, weather sealing, etc.
Well I'll be getting these for my gravel bike as soon as they're not showing as out of stock on the Assioma website.
Update: according to the website they will only be available in "around 2 months". Maybe should have extended that review embargo.
How positive did you find the cleat engagement vs a Shimano SPD pedal?
I have the Rally XCs and that is the biggest annoyance for me. Real SPDs have a satisfying engagement click and the Rallys are vague and sometimes you can’t tell when the cleat is engaged, despite adjusting tension.
I’ve been waiting for Favero to make SPD pedals!
Blindfolded, could not tell the difference between this and shimano. Like I said in another comment at first I found the default tensions a bit low on mx but on this final version it seems higher and the exact same as XT. I may have been wrong though - it may have been the same all along.
they really look much more bulky then the XTR... are you sure it's only 2.5mm difference in stack height?
Do you happen to know which garmin head units capture both L/R power with the duo pedals setup?
L/r R balance pretty much anything. Full cycling dynamics (pedal phase, torque eff etc) only from Edge 520 plus onwards
When did these come out? 😮
Until now, I thought we had to convert Favero road power meters to SPD ourselves
Today I believe, that’s when I was asked to keep the video hidden until… if they’re not available I guess someone has f4cked up 😂
Sold out!
If they're available, they're bound to go to pro teams first! They'll have several on the open market to satisfy UCI rules. Sold out.
having been using the road assiomas for a couple of years after gettign fed up with the patchy reliability and reular replacemnts of the powertap pedals.
Thanks you man from Japan! You deserve more channels subs. The other two TH-camrs reviews they just read the spec sheet. Those pedals look like proper testing and wear 😊👌👌
Meow! Go tell them
Name the channels if you're going to put that out there Bazza.
60+ HRc is machinable with correct machine/setup/tooling.
But a high casehardening will improve efficiency at the cleat/binding interface by greatly reducing friction.
Micrometer is a different tool, dial indicator is shown. I won’t blame him though, could’ve had low O2 while narrating and cycling.
Found the machinist hehe. A2 is about the hardest I've milled, was slow, but worked on an old beat up haas
When measuring the play, it seems that you are pulling towards the camera. Meaning your showing axial play. Have you mixed it up in the video or am i missing something.
Did you test the single or double sided pedals? If single, how often did you have to flip the pedal or miss a clip in?
They’re all double sided! Both side power meter. The mx1 is power meter on one pedal only
How do they calculate the correct tangential force? How do they know where the pedal is at any given moment of the pedal stroke? Do you have to zero with the crank arms in perfect vertical position?
Nobody seems to know anything about this source of error
there we go
Hi PT, you and Favero are super reliable in your respective works. A great review.
But how do you mount the pedals to the crank arms with the correct torque?
On The Assioma Duos it is easy to use a torque wrench with an Allen key bit. But here the mounting seems to be using a 15 mm pedal wrench.
Correct its a 15mm wrench. I never used a torque wrench, just did up reasonably tight. No problems in 12 months, constantly swapping bikes.
when i bought the Garmin Vector 1 in 2013 sept, i had to buy a torque wrench (Holex) and a 15mm wrench adapter, i had to make this thinner with milling machine with a few mms because lack of space. but the ParkTools made a cheap and narrow-headed version (TW-1) but there was a world-wide shortage then, probably due to the Vectors :D Luckily i dont have the Vectors since many years, i have just more Power2Max NGs , but the torque wrench is good for the normal pedals and for the Rotor cranks (with allen/hex adapters)
You use a crows-foot adaptor. When the original Vector 1 came out the retailers of 15mm crows foot adaptors sold out throughout the country for a few months. Eventually Garmin started including them with the pedals. For Vector 1&2 the correct tightening torque was important to the accuracy of the product. When we start selling Assioma Pro MX we will offer a crows foot adaptor as an option with the product if people want to make sure they are tightening them to specification.The recommended tightening torque of 30-40Nm is probably harder than most people do their pedals normally.
@@roberttobin7342 its name "open jaw plug-in head" what i bought , the crow-foot a bit different , but yes, the proper tightening is more important than sometimes the people thinks.
Thanks for The answers, guys 🤗
How about their performance after crashing them during rides with rocks and roots? I know we don't ride to crash pedals into rocks or roots , but in XC marathon that happens very often...and that is my number one concern about doing this big upgrad€...
What in your opinion is the best road power meter pedal/system. I haven't found a pair of mtb shoes that fit my very specific feet otherwise these seem great for the price as well.
Assioma is very hard to fault
Try Lake? I have shoe problems, found a pair that fit very comfortably (didn’t buy bec $$$)
Perfect timing. I've been looking for an SPD pedal based power meter, but poor reports on the Garmin Rally XCs put me off. If these are as good as Favero's road models, they might be ideal! Cheers
I'm just going to say this: I have the Garmins and they are ok as power meters but awful as pedals. They squeak unless they are completely covered in grease. They are loose, no matter how much you tighten the tension on the cleats. I have had 2 replacements and they still squeak. Garmin makes absolutely terrible SPD pedal bodies. I will be buying assiomas as soon as they are available where I live.
@@nssomething8370 Sounds like I have dodged a large calibre bullet. I'll keep an eye open for the new Assioma MXs. Cheers
@@BrianRPaterson Absolutely. I'm not going to lie, I still use the Garmins and like the power meter aspect, but they just suck as pedals. I got them in 2021, so I did get a lot out of them up to now, but I won't shed any tears when I dump them.
Is the right side of your handlebars lower than the left? Certainly looks that way in the initial stages of the video.
No
Are these technically more advanced than their road pedals now? I’m wondering if the new tech in these might make its way into the road pedals eventually
Hey PT, unreletated question to the video, but what handlebars are those on your gravel?
Just the yoeleo stock bar/stem on the g21. I really like them.
Peaky Torque pedals then?
Not sure about these, but I believe most power meters use strain gauges in groups of 4.
Regarding “the peanut” and non-instantaneous angular velocity reading, would oval chainrings compensate for that?
That's what they claim. Might make it less. Doesn't make a re performance difference though, otherwise the WT would be on it. It's a preference thing - your leg/brain adjusts accordingly
yes, the Assioma and the Power2Max NG are using IAV, so they measure the same with round and oval chainrings. the other powermeters are on the market not, 3-4% higher measurement with ovals (Osym) or if You have very kicking pedaling technique instead of "perfect" circle pedaling , then also these "cheap toys" are overmeasuring the power.
@@andraslukoviczki519 Why is power overestimated if non-round chainrings give a more uniform angular velocity?
"power meters assume that you turn the pedals at steady speed throughout each pedal stroke revolution. The problem is, oval chainrings cause your crank velocity to change during each pedal stroke, as they limit the time in the dead spot and lengthen the time in the power phase" in short. btw i suggest everybody to learn to pedal smooth and fluently in circle with round rings, this oval is just hiding your problem, but not solving it. it has no power gain , otherwise everybody in the pro peloton would use it... but as we know, especially in cycling industry , if you do a good marketing, you can sell anything worthless for high price also 😂
Do you think the different cleat binding plates had an effect in your crash, where the Favero maybe didn't release when a Shimano would have?
No. It was a horror crash. The bindings are almost identical to XT in the way they clip and release. If you were blindfolded you couldn’t tell the difference. In the early days I would almost say the default tension (without adjusting the screw) was lower on the mx than XT but whether they have updated that or not I’m not sure but on the latest set they feel absolutely identical.
@@PeakTorquetry SH-56 Multi-directional release cleats from Shimano?
@@e.con0210 nah i like being connected. They would scare me!
@@e.con0210 I never understood why SH-56's even exist. To me they are dangerous AF, since you're not in full control of when they disconnect and when they disconnect suddenly, e.g. when you bunny hop, you're not going to connect back straight away - basically losing control on the disconnected side (or sides if you're unlucky and both unclip). It's like having a flat pedal but worse.
Is it necessary to get the dual pedal power meter or will the single do just as good of a job?
If your legs are even power distribution, get the single!
@@PeakTorque needs to be even power distribution across the range. My L/R balance for a ride is usually in the range 49/51 to 51/49, but zone 2 it is around 47/53 and above threshold 53/47 (10mm leg length difference, quads and glutes engage differently accord to physio). So using a single sided pedal meter would be as reliable as a Shimano power meter for me +/-5%
@@PeakTorque I realise it's an impossible question, but does the leg power distribution thing matter in the real world for the average rider?
I’ve done tests on double vs single sided powermeters before and believe it or not your legs fatigue at different rates which is important and the reason why single sided powermeters can be misleading. Not as simple as it seems
@@FlourescentPotatoaverage rider doesn’t really need power meter, having said that Im a below average rider but really like knowing this stuff and would totally geek out on dual, under $800 for both vs $500 for single. It comes down to how much you want to spend for the info (whether or not it helps you maybe become a better rider)
Re: Quarq accuracy. Dunno how old yours is. But the current (and fairly old design) DFour is definitely less accurate (under-reads) and less responsive when compared to my latest gen Sigeyi and Xcadey, Elite Diretto XR, and borrowed Assiomas.
Quarqs usually overreads :) (but could be single other cases..) but if you can do an accurate static weight test at home, you can get it more accurate. the problem is the old and dumb strain gauge in it, the Assioma and P2M NG, or maybe any newer chinese miracle have much newer and smarter strain gauge with active temp compensation, the Quarq is similar tech as the old Power2Max TypeS, more then 10-15 years old... if You can simulate a very big temp change near to the bike, you can compare these powermeters' behaviour, i made a few tests few years ago on winter indoor, the results were very spectacular. if the temp is constant or just tiny changes, almost all powermeters are measuring on acceptable level or "good"
Is spd less effective in power transfer compared to spd-sl?
No. Absolutely not.
@@PeakTorque Assuming the shoe tread interfaces with the pedal body correctly, sure. But that's not guaranteed at all and it's a lucky dip depending on which shoe you use. When the tread wears, it no longer makes contact, the efficiency drops and the contact gets sloppier and sloppier. Fine for MTB but horrendous for road and fast gravel.
Get stiffer shoes with longer tread then?
@@JulianKent it’s a crap design. great for mud clearance and ease of clip in/out, terrible otherwise. also the float is way too much, very sloppy
@@thedownunderverse do you have data to back your claims and how much of a "loss" are we talking about? Something that would bother world tour riders during TDF, i.e. 1.5 sec over 4 hours? GCN or any other youtube grifter's "opinion" doesn't count as scientific facts.
382g is amazing.
zwift power has the same tool for Free, it work just fine
What is that mountainbike at the beginning? It looks like titanium.
Titus Fireline (Planet X) beautiful frame
Thanks@@PeakTorque, I have a Titanium roadbike made by Waltly. I am currently looking for a hardtail. I read somewehere that Planet X titanium frames are also made by Waltly.
Not sure why anybody on a gravel bike of MTB would buy a power pedal as they tend to get damaged through rock strike. Buy a power spider. I use Sigiryi and it weighs a lot less the battery lasts for a long time and they are only £300. Just used one at the Cape Epic on a SRAM XX1 crankset and it was flawless. So good that I’ve just bought one for the road bike.
Why don't you use the shifters in on your gravel bike?
What's the release date for these in the UK. ??
It was supposed to be yesterday, don't know what they are up to. Probably some marketing/forecasting tactic, no idea.
@@PeakTorque they are not available on their website either.
@@PeakTorque Do you think they will bring out a Shi and Keo pedal body to upgrade to a road set up if wanted to like Garmin do.
They haven't started selling them yet and we as retailers cant take pre orders until they have enough stock to start shipping. It is going to be a few weeks at least before you can place an order or anything starts shipping (I spoke with the owner today). When Assioma launched in 2017 they were still a relatively unknown company so demand didn't overload them and they had stock (and all the spare parts) at launch point. Now they are probably the market leader in power pedals they know demand is going to be massive to start with.
Use an RPS Battery - problem solved ! (Americium-241)
You could market them as having integrated foot warmers.
@@andrewcockburn7484 well played! Literally, ☢️ nuclear powered pedals.
Non-engineer so I understand about 65% of what you say, but genuinely grateful that you are wringing hard data out to prove or disprove marketing claims. Would buy these on your data and presentation. Thanks so much for the effort you’ve obviously applied. And commiserations to your knee. Well worth the sacrifice
Wow, thank you!
Out of stock! Availability in 2months! Wtf! Ive been waiting for these to replace my garmin rally
"...in blue if you're colour blind". Great, reminds me of the old 60s soccer comentary "and Everton are in blue if you're watching in black and white". Made me laugh anyway.
The first person to pick up on this!
1 sec recording provides fairly low resolution. It’s a shame there’s no way to record uninterrupted output of power registered by PMs.
All comes down to battery life. An original SRM and PC8 head unit would go a lot faster than 1Hz but for most people battery life of PM and head unit is more important.
@@PeakTorque these power meters record faster than once per sec though, it's more about how this data is stored/probed. You can test it yourself by connecting two devices (e.g. watch and computer) and recording same session on both. You'll see that the power numbers don't match.
@@channul4887 the transmitting signals are on 4HZ or 8HZ via ANT+ but usually the powermeters are sending the SAME (internally averaged) power value during these 250ms or 125ms rate (there are a very few exceptions, but these 4 or 8x same datas are needed as redundancy for perfect signal quality, the signal interferences can ruin the transmit if you send 4 different power values within 1s and the had unit need to process all the 4 different values, there will be too much dropouts), the instant (so at the end of the ride only the max power) power values are could be a bit different if one of the head unit picks up before the value change , and the other is after the change, but the avgpower is ALWAYS THE TOTALLY SAME for a ride (if there are no dropouts , of course). If you can read the raw ANT+ signals from the powermeters , it is clearly seeing. yes, there are non-standard method to get faster data rate (honestly, higher resolutions needs only for sprinting, nothing elsewhere), even on ANT or easier to get it via BT (like the Stages has/had the 64HZ high speed mode via mobile app into csv,)
... "blah , blah , techno geek, bla, blah .....there's a rainbow over there......blah, blah, techno geek, etc, etc " 😂👌🏻
Nice, they have tested their pedals under real world conditions BEFORE bringing them to the market!
except that they allegedly were not informed upon test results prior to the video
Correct. They have been under embargo for months. I’m surprised none of you spotted them before 😂 call yourself bike tech nerds or what?!!!
I’m pretty sure they would have actually developed them properly and made sure they were confident in their own product before giving them out don’t you think? Non sarcastic version: of course they were confident and developed them properly.
@@PeakTorque Yes, that's a good thing. It's a sad that you have to emphasise this positively for the cycling industry. Remember last season when 9 Look frames were broken at the chainstays before Roubaix even started?
If only they came in speedplay :/
Within 2%...and I can do integration in my head better than 2%...too funny?😂
I wish they supported Dura Ace cleats. Look cleats are garbage, and disintegrate instantly.
Built in battery is still a no for me.
And they are sold out……..
Dude I cannot listen to what you are explaining, while you show us these carbon mud guards 😅
Humble bragging about 7 minutes at 410
too bad they are sold out
You know people get sceptical when multiple youtubers drop the vid simultaneously, right?
OK, I was apparently wrong and people are happy to see the PT approval on the new product.
manufacturer's review embargo?
@@super8hell exactly that, part of the launch campaign
Not if the viewers use even the slightest bit of critical thinking, and realize that this is the embargo date.
If they released their videos early they'd violate the contract that allowed them the pre-release access that they've had over the last few months in order to make the video.
Without this system, you'd have no videos today, and then either unboxing or rushed first look, or else be waiting 6 more months have have this video in the fall '24 to give them time to collect the data.
@@galenkehler I'm totally OK not to have a video today, honestly, because we are not on a strict schedule anyway. But some lab tests and disassembly would have been worth a month or two more delay.
Data "collected" here is worth one intense weekend tops. Getting familiar, crash, test ride. No durability claims backed up with measurements, all numbers are from the website.
You're probably getting so much battery life because you aren't putting down a lot of Watts.
Love your content but having a hard time enjoying listening while you’re riding your bike. Please stop riding and talking/reviewing/explaining at the same time. Just find a chair and a quiet place 🙏
It's never bothered me. I ran this one again and I can hear fine. No need for the comfy chair.
"...charging Tesla, of course" - do tell? Throwaway comment that annoyingly detracts from a great review. Battery life in Teslas (and most EVs in fact- barring shitty Leafs with no actice cooling) and regardless of charging regime/chemistry is truly, hilariously long
This is about degradation over time. 10% capacity loss after 600 full capacity charge cycles is pretty on-point.
rather cool product BUT all modells are "out of stock"
I've been waiting ages for a decent SPD-style power pedal and these look pretty impressive.
I don't mind waiting a few months, or longer, to get something good.
Plus, it'll give some time for any less obvious faults to show up in vlogs and forums.
They haven't started selling them yet. You will have to wait for a few weeks.