Are More People Leaving Warhammer 40K then Before?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2024
- We answer the age old question.. but in 2024.. are there more people leaving the 40K game/hobby then in previous eras?
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In BattleTech i got for 6 boxes filled with rule books, lore books, miniatures, maps ,terrain, record sheets, , cards, and 3 different game modes all for a little over $100 .....Just the starter set for 40k is around $160 ........ this is the biggest reason why people leaving 40k, the value is not there
As someone whose more into painting, I wish those battletech minis weren't so doughy and badly made.
The plastic BT minis just require a bit more preparation, but they're easy to customize and magnetize.
40K has been “dying” the whole sixteen years I’ve been around it.
Playing is to expensive id rather just listen to lore if they come back to 1998-2010 prices id get back in to it
My group went to Bolt Action V3
I assume the amount of people leaving is proportional to the amount of players who were getting into the hobby.
Indeed!
I’m new from Space Marine 2, I’m hooked and getting my boys and my friends into the hobby too. I’m deep diving and can’t get enough lol
Grey Knights are my dudes!
40k does player churn cycles. its how I got into wargaming.
My precognition isn’t necessarily something I’m excited about. Lol
That being said, workshops ability to plan in decades and sell in quarters is why we’ve seen a division of products to compete in the life cycles of their own customers to have something always on offer. I do think what you describe here as ‘dumbing down’ is going to be ramping up their product offer to match the interest of ‘light’ fans who interact with the brand through media going forward. It’s all money so make something for all tastes and depths of interest.
Spaceballs THE FLAMETHROWER.
In my early teens I started collecting and playing Warhammer and in high school I switched to 40k. I collected a 5000 point space wolves army with old school forge world modifications to all my tanks. That army was stolen from me in 2004 and I was jaded on the hobby and never started collecting another army. I did read tons of lore novel and loved reading the Heresy. Then something happened, Space Marine 2 came out and I jumped in head first. I currently have 515 hours of gameplay and a new Raven Guard tattoo. So now I am dumping a ton of money into a solid painting setup and started picking up some minis to paint. I am still experimenting with my colors before I move on to painting the whole squad and I have a stack of minis to paint and more on the way. So to recap, yes people do take 20 year breaks from the hobby, and then turn around and jump the huge cost barrier to get back into the space and feel comfortable about it. I have no plans on playing any games but I am looking forward to painting up a huge Raven Guard Company or maybe even Chapter. The future of the painting and collecting looks bright for me.
I felt this as I had a Hugh army of black templars stolen from me. Just pretty much to the tune of this comment. Recently came back and bought a refresh of BT.
Hey guys, I know 40k is your mainstay at the shop, but would it be possible to make an update/2025 expectations for other systems you sell?
The 3 year incomplete rules churn that GW have as a business model, is kind of hard to support as a player. They sell you an incomplete rule system by dripping codexes. It requires that 40k is your only game, just to keep up. That’s ok, all the power to those who love it, but I can see why some people who casually play a bunch of game systems just don’t have the available time to focus on it. Personally, I just haven’t had fun playing 40k since maybe 8th edition indexhammer. It’s not the best rule system by far but it carries the highest cost. For that reason, as the sharks say, I’m out.
I do however play many other games, and I collect their models still (artistically). So, if GW ever decide to bring out a stable/ fun ruleset that I like personally, I would give it another chance. Necromunda and SM2 seem to scratch the 40k/ grimdark itch for me. Great video guys!
The 10th edition Tyranid codex was the worst. There was a day 1 update/ corrections list to the rules on the GW website, so if you had bought it at one min past midnight on the day it first came out and been the first person to have it in the whole world it would still have been outdated by the time your hand touched it. Why spend money on that? I did and it's not a good feeling.
@ as a 25 year hobby person, I’ve seen the cycles GW has gone through, which they mentioned in the video. Yet, I still got the Black Templar codex in the nostalgia box set because it was cool … and it had errata/ faqs before release, I think I played maybe 2 games with it haha.
@@Tabletop_Hobbies My Votann had lost their coolest ability before UPS even got the package to my front porch... they remain in their box. Even if they're more balanced or still competitive or whatever, it was just such a buzzkill that I lost all interest in building them.
I've almost completely moved over to the Old world. I just don't see myself having the money and free time to keep up with the direction that 10th edition has taken 40k. I literally just don't have the motivation, the Old world feels like true Warhammer to me.
Edit:
TRENCH CRUSADE HYPE😂
✨One page rules✨
@bernhardeisl7382 No thanks, that's just 3rd edition 40k for hipsters. I would love to play 2nd/3rd edition 40k but when you ask the 40k players that, they just look at you like they smelled a fart.
Old world for me too now, no time for anything else. 😂
@FluteGnome It's the best.
10/10. Very bassed.
I just play Old World now and some AOS, but I no longer use the latest rules updates just the battletomes as is.
Nice!
For anyone leaving w40k, come on over to Gorkamorka - we got trukks buggies bikes trakks orks grots muties diggas Fungus Brew, everything you'd want and more!
I got my Combat Patrol box painted and played my first game and realized it wasn't quite right for me. The game is simply too long, requires too many models, and the rules are too much. I don't have access to my opponent's rules without paying, but the game is also competitive which can lead to charitable misinterpretations.
I've been enjoying Grimdark Future much more. I paint whatever I want and put it into one force. Ton of fun.
I completely agree. My friends and I are playing Grimdark Future 2v2 tomorrow with as many models as possible, I'm really looking forward to it. I wouldn't even dare attempt that with 10th edition rules.
I’m happy with The Old World and Heresy, so yeah, I’ve kind of dropped 40k and AoS. If I had unlimited resources (time and $) maybe I’d be more interested in “the big two”.
I’m really digging AOS 4th edition, it’s definitely got me more engaged than 40K at the moment.
I’m really having a hard time figuring it out and deciding what to buy… not sure why it’s hard
Getting back into painting after a four year break because aos 4th edition has a skaven starter set
I’m new, only a couple months in. Admittedly I’ve read some books and seen it all from a distance for a long time and have experience painting. The thing is though, I’ve already moved on from new stuff other than kill team. I’m all in on the older editions. Bought a 2nd edition starter, bought a ton of older models. It’s keeping me entertained. I like the feel of the writing, even bought and read through a rogue trader rule book. Hard to get people to play with, but I don’t like how stagnant the newer stuff feels, I like how punk the old stuff is.
Out of ideas!??? Talk about Old World more…plenty of content there! 😊
Shhhhhhh
I started 40k with a 2E starter box I picked up with lawn cutting money at 11. My first learn to play was with my dad at a local hobby shop (Blood Angels vs Tyranids), and I knew immediately I had to pick the game up. I played up until 5e and have picked up the odd model since then. I still love GW's minis. I've got an entire Flesh Eater Army that I have never played with because I just wanted to pain them. Unfortunately I felt long ago that I outgrew their games. Once I clued in that the game was just something to do with your models, it lost interest. There are other mini games I enjoy more now. It's no different than the other pop culture stuff I liked younger (tv, music, board games) that I eventually outgrew. I don't fault people who like it and continue playing as they grow up. For me, it just became a priority to find a game with the gameplay designed first and the minis serve the game, whereas GWs operation seems the opposite.
My young nephew is interested in it now, and I'm more than happy to send all my unfinish Tau that I got when the army was first released. If he wants to stick with it, awesome. Maybe I'll finish the unpainted Eldar I've had since 5E. I don't think I can upgrade my Ultramarines as they were purchased with 2E in mind, so I have the OG Calgar and standard size marines, as well as a techmarine and servitors with their tracked artillary.
It's criminal being this early. LoW are bringing the heat this Thursday.
Old world, its got me hooked, 40k releases come out and i get tired just thinking about building and painting them, give me 100 militia and a steam tank and I’m happy!😂
Lol
I don’t think you can measure the bump in interest from Space Marine 2 as a long term translation to growth in the hobby. I don’t think it’s dying or anything, but the reality of the hobby tends to filter out the less dedicated. Regarding the complexity of the game, I think people don’t want the rule set to be a lawyerly activity so that the strategy can be the focus of the IQ table test.
I think you absolutely can. Sure, most people won't stick with it. But that's always been the case regardless of how they started. More people giving it a go the more people that will stick with it long term.
40K takes up your life. All free time, unless you really pace yourself and do it casually. At some point, people want to try something else and they do. It's like Runescape, you quit for a while, but always revisit in some way for short periods of time.
"We should just call December garbage month"
Joke's on you, I'm into that shit
Lol
I have no problem with Warhammer becoming a brand, i just wish unlikely to happen that they'd take the foot off the pedal and slow the pace abit.
I actually really like 10th edition not played as much as id like too but everything changes up so quickly it makes it a really tough barrier to entry on top of all the pre game energy u have to invest.
Someone once said to me that gw expects a certain burn rate in consumers of the Warhammer hobby... Its a very difficult thing to balance new life (which every hobby needs) vs the vets.
I know my local gw shop is definitely now aimed more at the new players and getting them into the cycle. There still welcoming to the vets but theres not really a place for u in those stores. Here in the UK its all clubs and non gw events who make their own calls on what happens there.
Sometimes it is better the devil u know and pushing for the mainstream might just have your long term vets looking for a different game to play.
The deal for me with GW is that I’ve got like 35 years invested in their world. Even when I didn’t have time for the hobby or the game, I still kept up with the lore. And this makes it very difficult to get interested in other, newer games. I know the players in both sides, fantasy and sci-fi, and have (as weird as it sounds) an emotional attachment the factions. So while something like Trench Crusade may have a level of intellectual interest, the emotional attachment to the factions isn’t there. That’s probably why OPR has had the success it has. It’s piggy backing on the GW IP, regardless of what they actually call their factions.
Me too. I get my GW IP immersion scratched by Legions Imperialis (for 30k) and Warmaster (for the Old World). I’ll play LI with old epic figures, or printed stuff using community rules for the Xenos 40k stuff.
Im glad you mentioned this - sunken emotional cost. It plays to the advantage of companies that can stick around for a long time.
So far the biggest thing l hate is that the rules change every 2 weeks
If the question was “are more veteran 40k players leaving than ever?”
i would say yes, and apparently GW wants this as said from their own mouths.
Some new players and tourists want this to happen. I certainly do not.
I don’t see this game of plastic toy soldiers as a competitive game, I see it as a narrative game. So I understand why people that are tired of changes focused on the “esports” scene are getting out or moving to OPR, trench crusade or homebrew with friends. They don’t want their list made obsolete every weekend or their codex obsolete before it even arrives in the mail. GW is just an infuriating company.
Without even getting into ideological disputes.
I first entered the 40k hobby over 20 years ago, and what really hooked me was the setting, the models and the fluff. I enjoyed playing the tabletop at first, but as I began to understand the rules I slowly became resentful of them. They weren't balanced and just felt ham-fisted. Worse still was discovering that Codexes were legitimately written to push sales of models instead of allowing interesting armies being viable. By 6th edition I quit playing 40k and enjoyed other parts of the hobby. When 10th came around I gave it another look, since the rules were available for free, and was horrified that the game just felt even worse. Stagnant rules that never addressed what I felt were the core failings of 40k.
That was the last straw and I wrote my own rules. I ditched IGOUGO and threw away the obnoxious "devastatingly lethal deadly wounds of feeling no pain" that fill the pages like purple prose tumors, reimagined the granularity and I am hammering out the balance of all the units.
Is mine better? I don't know. But I'm having fun with the tabletop for the first time in five editions.
This
Summer love does indeed come hard and go fast.
😂😂😂😂 Yes it does.
I love you Jenny -forest gump😂
With the release of aos 4th edition and spearhead, did you notice a shift from some people from 40k to aos?
I love 40K but I also love PC gaming. I’m 36 and time/money are limited so managing both hobbies is tough. Lately I’ve leaned much more into PC gaming 😅
It happens, tough choices all around
The great thing about the hobby is there are so many games. Even in the GW universe, if you get bored of 40k try Kill Team or Necromunda. That's the great thing about being in a club, you see everyone's playing different games and it fires your interest. I joined in a game of bolt action the other month because my game finished early and it was super fun. That's what it should be about
*than
The old world is where it's at
I love the models and lore but the books to actually play yhe game being behind a paywall is stupid, onepagerules is a lot better, not only does it give you the rules for free and an army list builder for free but games of opr aren't decided on who goes first
I may not make it to any cons next year but I will definitely have Adepticon garbage time marked down on my calendar
This is just local to me (UK) but playing 40k went from the most played game game at our local club during 9th to very rare games in 10th. Seems a bit that those who got in during COVID are fading away.
However, the buzz and chat hasn't. Also seems people I know are still purchasing and maybe more than before. Just not seeing it played.
Playing Diablo 2 while listening to this actually made me laugh.
Interest in my LGS only goes up but personally 10e has been a miss with me
As someone whos going to be new to the hobby. This was quite an interesting listen lol.
I have in the hobby for 24 years. I have a big collection but I rarely play now. When you get older, you have less time. I do kill team more because it is fast.
That makes sense!
I’ll just go ahead and say yes. However there is also more people playing than ever so it goes hand in hand. Also this easy to see trend of , release , escalate , bloat to death then release anew is seen now. Only players who haven’t played long won’t notice it.
Do you guys do any Flesh and Blood TCG?
yep, we've run armory nights for a couple years now
As an older guy, I just can't keep up with the new editions and rules changes. I play many games, but with 40K/AoS it seems every time I think of playing them I should buy new rules, new army book, recalculate my army list etc.
I had the same thing with playing Destiny: You can't play it casually every now and then. They want you to make playing it your lifestyle and I just can't do that anymore.
So I quit.
I'll still buy the models I like, but I'll use them with One Page or Hobgoblin or something that's more... stable.
I think that's really healthy. At the end of the day we need to always ask ourselves if we are getting the enjoyment we should be out of our hobby time. Good for you!
Is 40k dying, no its becoming bigger than ever. But will it lose some of what made it special for so many as it grows? Much as I love the lore of 40k and fantasy it has changed over time. And I'm worried GW will try to grab as many people's money as possible but genericafying 40k in the process.
I stopped caring about 40k as a game years ago, and I don’t care for GW as a business, but I think it’s ultimately a good thing for the hobby if they expand. As more people get into the hobby via Warhammer, more of them will eventually trickle down into the smaller games I love.
The indecision thing is so real. I've more or less fall out of the hobby until I calm down a bit and take pressure off myself.
We always want to spend our time well. In a wierd way our hobbies become like jobs where we put expectations on ourselves.
Wait!?!? There are boobs and ladies on Instagram?!?!!?! Kidding, of course.
I started 40K the day the 3rd edition starter dropped. I wanted to start sooner but the local store told me to wait a couple months for the new rules. I played till 5th edition.
I essentially left because the big army games and the increasing competitive nature just didn’t appeal to me. Costs were also rising even then and I just lost the heart for it.
I moved into skirmish games and X-Wing. And GW still got my money with Blood Bowl stuff.
I do still think of 40K fondly and recommend it to people who may be interested, but painting 50 to 100 models for an army doesn’t appeal to me when I can paint 10 and play Mordheim or something else at skirmish level.
GW will get me back in when BFG returns lol
3:02 You guys should thumbnail the Whaaa! face for future videos 😮
I’ve left. Only playing Legions Imperialis and Warmaster now (from GW anyway). None of my friends play it anymore and we’ve all been playing since 1st or 2nd Ed.
For every 1 person leaving there is 5 coming in. Space marine 2 has sent a influx of people into the hobby.
I think people come and go, but I think that more people are interested in miniature games. The problem GW has is the big company desire to be lazy, while making more money. So things ebb when the money people argue that they should just do what already worked or some other FOMO/gotcha style trick or a quick fix to patch over something instead of something more comprehensive because they prefer to ride the inertia of something they already made over dropping money on something new. But when that drops off the people with brains start to get more control to make more inventive or creative choices but then once the product sells well the money people start to push for their way and the cycle starts all over again.
Love it. I like philosophy time , story time , with a pinch of garbage mixed in.
It's too difficult to buy, collect and play. Armies are too big, models are too complex.
well... if more people are coming in that will probably mean more people leaving 🤷♂ do I get a prize for being right?
I'd rather drink milk then orange juice than Coke then orange juice.
If you know you know, but you may know as well.
About the people coming and going bit: this is why I find the whole boycotting thing that sprung up from the Femstodes fiasco kind of amusing. Like, my man, how do you plan that? Not buying their stuff for two years? Five years? I lost my interest in something for way longer then randomly continued from where I left. Will enough people care for that issue for long enough to make any effect? One can boycott a movie or a game by not buying it upon release, but how can they do the same where they count on people leaving the hobby for even decades?
1 page rules is better honestly
I took a 10 year break…I got back ten years ago :) My twin brother took a 20 year break & is back with a vengeance :)
We like it because it is entertaining
Man I'm really sick of those hatemonger TH-cam channels that are just monetizing negativity. TH-cam needs better options for filtering channels out of search results.
You think what they have done to Warhammer is bad, check out what they did to D&D
I would tend to agree with you that 40K is growing, exactly with the space Marine two thing that you're mentioning. I know it's blossoming at my local FLGS. Certainly somewhere, someone sees the local 40K scene dropping from 10 players to five players, but that doesn't mean that's what's happening everywhere.
Related to this, another big TH-camr posted about 10th edition being bland, and I commented that I wasn't going to spend 23 minutes watching someone to describe why I shouldn't be having fun with the game I'm enjoying playing. Someone chimed in to say I must not be playing enough games and other rule sets. Does it really matter how many games I play? If I'm having fun, I'm having fun. What is "flavor", how much do you need? Do other people miss having 99 enhancements and wargear per faction? Too much to choose from and too many broken combos? That's part of the reason why I stayed away from 8th and 9th edition. I guess the reality is I took a break from 40K from 6th to 9th. I enjoyed 5th, and I'm glad to be back in 10th. But I will agree that we're all here for different reasons and we can all like different ways to play. As I've stated before, I'm investing in 10th edition as if it's the last edition I play.
Back to what you were saying, I believe there have been studies that pointed out that when someone says they miss the good old days, or it was better back when... It always coincides to the person's late teens early twenties I believe.
And I like the bathtub of analogy, yes some people may be perceiving players leaving the game, but in the big picture there's an equal or greater amount of players entering the game.
I was to poor in 2000-2004 to but box set so i went to dollar store got a bag of army men and a couple of codex and made it work but not shop since 2006 and noone tonplay since then either.....i wanna come up with a system that holographic map on to table that can see movement of unit and it makers it for the other guy on his holotable and play online at home
I think 40K is at the point it was in 2007-2010. It had kinda fallen into a boring rut. Warmachine came along and was massively popular. I don’t think people who weren’t into gaming then realize how popular WM was. I never really was into it but at my lgs WM players far outnumbered 40K players.
40K needs a refresh, it’s catering to the competitive scene. I get it, it’s what makes them money but the game now has too many moving parts and rules changes.
I only play now because I have a small group of friends that play casual games or more narrative style games. We just throw what we have on the table and set up terrain that makes sense.
The problem for me is that the actual game of 40K sucks so bad right now. The entirety of my game group has stopped playing.
Everyone I know that's into the 40k hobby does not play 40k. Played in college, but we all just collect and paint. Not worth the hassle.
Very true for me. It's a hobby, not a game in my eyes. And this is how I approach miniatures and paints.
I feel relatively happy and satsfied with the market, offer and competition. That's why I find all the sensationalism behind this spare-time activity either childish or promoted by immature adults
I've been playing 40k since 2000; I'm not enjoying 10th edition so far. The core game feels boring to play, all the narrative depth and nuance is gone right now. I get why someone would enjoy 10th edition, specifically the competitive players, but for people that enjoy the creative self-expression aspect of 40k the current edition feels flat and boring.
Malifaux, Conquest, and Infinity are all way better at being competitive games.
Wait till all the influencers like mois critical that learned of 40k from space marine start playing it then it will get a lot of more people playing i know of 7 people that started playing magic because he started talking about it
3d printing is becoming a thing too
Resin
tons of ways to find basically 1:1 scans
GW did it to themselves for sure and this is coming from someone new to the hobby haha xD
I dropped 40k when third edition came out and didn't come back until 8th. (I played a lot of other things in the meanwhile.)
40k has always had a steady stream of people starting and dropping out. There is one way to start this hobby and about a thousand ways to exit. It's always been that way. 40k is still just so ridiculously dominant. I mean even the normies know about 40k at this point and it's just keeping going.
All that said, The Old World is taking over, #1 flagship game here we come. Turns out 20 year old kits were the secret sauce all along. Who knew?
Leaving the wargame? Yes. Leaving the IP/hobby? No. 10th's rules suck. Full stop. And this is why OPR is so popular. You can keep the lore/models of 40k, but can play a better ruleset with them without getting fleeced or FOMO'ed the entire time.
No.
In all seriousness though, I think one of the big problems with the hobby right now is sensational content creator. Those “things I wished I knew” videos tend to be full of information that is either too advanced for a new person, or at the very least based on skill that you need to learn first before you can do that “thing.” Then, when someone new tries whatever this person has said you “need to do” and it turns out terribly, or is extremely hard, or frustrating, they quit.
You talk a lot about newer players getting burnt out and stopping or whatever but have you seen more experienced "veteran" players drop 40k at all? I've been hearing the odd anecdote but I don't know if that's just a vocal minority
i have too, and alot of competitive are getting upset and burnt out
You need to upgrade your clickbait game, change the title to "are more people leaving warhamner, BECAUSE OF TRENCHCRUSADE?"
True true
Than
way not to address the elephant in the room; the obvious reason 40k is dying: Trench Crusade
I know we were all thinking it
40k is an entry game, you're supposed to move onto something else and then finally end up doing the American Civil war in your 60s and 70s.
I don't think more people are leaving , but comparing to the 2000s and 2010s a lot fewer people are getting in. The "parent/grandparents buying stuff for their boy" stopped to happen here , because the youngest of "the boys" are in their late 20s here.
I don't think this is true. I went to (corporate) warhammer store recently and found so many kids there.
I wish 40k was dying, theres sooo many better games out there with better rulesets but no one plays them because of 40k's legacy.
Sold more in money or items. You know what dont answer, from the fact that you are trying to not answer your own question i think i should look for the answer somewhere else
I’m just here for the ‘I haven’t played and the rules/game are/is garbage’ comments. No one cares what you think if you haven’t played the game.
And no one cares for these kind of comments either. But thanks for engaging with the video and help it give visibility with the algorithm !
I haven't played since 2nd version was released.
the rules are garbage.
Remember, garbage is good on this channel ;)
@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905
they removed some of the best features from the original rogue trader rules. creating your own troops and hero's. specialized character types. many of the aliens.
then, GW decided that only they could make specialized characters and troops had to come from their own lists.
this was done intentionally to remove any creativity from the players and keep that ability solely in the hands of GW.
we rewrote the 40k rules to play 'considered simultaneous' and uses a D10 instead of the D6.
I still buy the models on occasion, but for use with other games.
I haven't played any 40k at all since 10th edition was released. Didn't even bother buying the book. Maybe when 11th comes out and they make it less "simplified". Simplified equals boring.