A related topic is what duty or responsibility experienced, good dancers have to dance with beginners and improvers. Rasa, when you say "cliquey people may not know they're cliquey" I think that is true, and a question we should ask ourselves is "am I cliquey?" I believe that if we wish this thing called "social dancing" to thrive, we must consciously avoid being cliquish and snobbish and seek out beginners to dance with and inspire and ignite the fire in them that is with in us. It's the only way we can withstand snobs and cliques, otherwise a scene will wither and die.
@acpjr I agree and disagree, Agree that the Dance Community will thrive if more beginners are inspired to dance. I disagree with any view that put responsibility on Dancer not involved ( teaching,organising, dj) to dance with beginners. They pay their money, it's responsibility of organiser to cater for this and teachers to promote etiquette not customers No matter how skilled or advanced they are. If ppl want dance with ppl they should try being nice rather than entitled 💯
@@gogokizomba6903 You have the ability to nurture the community that you love. If it's not that important to you, then my comments were not directed to you.
It's addictive! Every time before I travel to a destination, I search online for the local SBK schools/events/workshops of the place. It's also a nice way get to know locals and build connections.
There is a downside to the addiction in terms of money. I’ve spent so much money this year on classes, events and festivals. I love dancing, but I sometimes feel like I’m spending above my means
Sometimes it's not so much clique but groups of friends that have known each other for a long time so people new to the scene find it harder to mix or join in, but I do understand the part you are saying and yes there probably are groupies lol
@@ojolennon I had a strange experience when I was New a guy friended me and gave me lots of information would meet me at the events would integrate me in, then he would say things like don’t just dance with me dance with others as well. Which of course I was going to do but I was pretty new and finding my feet some people just take a bit of time anyway then he would go off and talk to every single person because he was a busy body and needed to act like he knows everyone and introduces everyone everyone else. Then we were quite close friends for awhile and he told me nobody from the Dance community is his friend Im his only actual friend who talks to him outside of the community. Then I noticed controlling behaviour from him like if I went to an event without him he would be upset, but also he wouldn’t always tell me where he was going and nor did I care. Or when I found a date, he was really annoyed and then the next time I saw him, he messed up my hair when we met! so even though he asked integrated he’s not on the outside and still to stay I find it difficult to be friends with anyone because like person has mentioned everyone already is in a group. Personally I think it’s a big problem. My only solution is I’m going to organise events for people who are not integrated it means, little breakaway groups unfortunately
Sure I'm addicted!! A few years ago I left the work Christmas party early(which took place in another city), so that I can go to the salsa party nearby 😀
Batchata is very addictive. It can be addictive in a bad way but the physical and mental benefits and the fun vibe compensates. It's bad when you prioritize batchata congress over exploring places and variety of other activities. For years my preference is a batchata festival. Its hard to merge in other activities during a congress as it is physically hard to dance 6 to 11 hrs 3-4 consecutive dates. Also going to batchata every week or multiple times a week means that you are giving up other options to connect with new people. Overall batchata is the most enjoyable activity and skill I ever practiced. Life is so much better dancing.
Hi. Been dancing for over 20 years and it was soon obvious that teachers gather a ‘following’ shall we say! Yes it’s very obvious and you make excellent observations! You take care.
Pro level Addicted here, i Change city, home and job just for be near to the best dance school in my region 😂. And plan to move to Barcelona in a few years...
@@cx_n1 I speak for Bachata, in London you have some very good teachers like Owen y Eva, but in Barcelona there are a LOT of dance good schools and the BS Dance Center by Korke y Judith, and the socials are just another things a lot of artist and also the amateurs have an amazing level
@@KenpachiKanto that’s incredible thank you! I can’t wait to go. Do you have any videos of of you dancing in Barce!? Happy to be an insta follower if you have it 😄
You describe things well, and I think there is also another aspect to cliquey when broken souls are using the dance scene to exert power control over others this isn’t easily seen u less u directly experience it which many do. Imo it ought to be discouraged for power hungry individuals to try and claim everyone as their closest ally, this is not friendship but rather fear leading to duping others intro thinking they are influential and ‘well liked’ when actually they are selfish and want as much of the social pie to themselves as possible. A support group could be set up for individuals who have been on the receiving end of such behaviours, there are many but too afraid to speak up as these individuals take over and become far too influential. It’s a shame really.
@akoliytv, you make a very valid point, its true this will not be talked about for many reasons. Your idea about support group is well intentende, from my experience and observation there is alot of talk behind ppls back in the SBK world. Meaning ppl will betray ppl for thier own gain, yes this is everywhere, but prevalant in SBK. Also there is the Victim mentality, where ppl ironically 😢are either mean, rude or bullies, but will claim victim status when they encounter a bigger predator, which say alot in itself. Truth is you can be a hero to someone and a villan to another, question really is what is relevant to you, ppls approval or attention or beingn then person you want to be and be happy with yourself. When you become happy with yourself, many things are background noise. I say this because you are Wright about many not talking about it, but solution in reality is you will never change ppl only yourself, and that's they key that I found to work 💯
@@gogokizomba6903 I think what I get from reading these comments is an overriding feeling that there is usually one person driving this and identifying them and perhaps teachers stepping in to discourage things getting too close with people as it makes many others feel pushed out. It’s organisers responsibility to dish out a code of conduct especially around respectful behaviour towards others. Clique = toxic leader = bullying (usually via exclusion) It’s all relatively new and developing and we have opportunities to encourage awareness around such issues by rasing them everywhere It’s social not guru worship imo at least but of course I may be wrong about it, but that why I want to create my own so this kind of thing is minimised. So those who like cliques and guru worship and be sheep at the usual events and there will be different events that are free of this sort of thing
Cliques definitely exist and your description is bang on. It's particularly noticeable at the Congresses when certain teachers congregate with their usual entourage and nobody else gets to dance with them. I've given up trying, good riddance to them. I'd rather have a fun dance with someone else.
This is the only attitude that works with cliques, ignore them 💯 focus on your own night. The funny thing is you often find sheep that have strayed form the heard alot different than when around the cliques, but same attitude must be reflected. It meas you can be nice but don't forget who they really are 👀
Honestly, dancing with teachers most of the time is just horrible experience. I only had couple good experiences. There is better chemistry and connection among normal dances than with teachers most of the time. I generally give everyone a dance, but don't really give second dances or actively seek cliquey type of people. I highly dislike elitism and I think people who are into that are just narcissists.
@@gogokizomba6903 sheep strayed 😂 I’m dead. It’s so true. Keep one eye open thats what I do too. Worse is when one is taking over entire bacahta, u ain’t seen nothing yet. There’s a super clique chick on the scene now and she won’t stop until absolutely every territory is fully conquered. It’s her life’s mission now I believe. She openly says how competitive she is too and I’m thinking, it’s meant to be collaborative not all about one person. But anyway she has the know how to pull the wool over insane numbers, few see it. She butters up everyone and gets exactly what she wants and needs. No one else can take her spot, she has to always be centre. I’m creating an anti clique event which will bar the leaders straight up, anyone can make something if they are experiencing this, take back power and let it inspire something positive to emerge 💫
I am definitely addicted to dancing bachata! I Love it! I noticed that it can be very judgemental when your body needs a proper rest or battles with injures, but people are still going to dance because of all the benefits they are experiencing. It's such an battle for lot of them.I feel blessed I never had an severe injury but am really concious about how my body feels and protect it by taking enough rest even if I really want to go out. But yeah, its hard sometimes.
I think you are wrong. My last vacations ... Malaga in May, danced 3 nights out of 4. Mallorca in July, danced 4 nights out of 5. Malaga in August, danced 2 nights out of 3. Tuscany in October, danced 3 nights out of 4. Tuscany in November, danced 3 nights out of 4. Barcelona in December, danced 2 nights out of 3. Yes, I like mini-vacations with low-cost flights, with the weekend in the middle not to burn my vacation days. Mmm, what about work trips? Oulu in August, danced 3 nights out of 7. 8 trips to Copenhagen staying there for the night, dancing 8 nights out of 8. Brussels in September, dancing 2 nights out of 4. Barcelona in December, dancing 4 nights out of 4. OUCH, I think you are right, we dance a lot!
So many hard truths and valid points on this video 💯 Let's talk addiction, in short anything in extremes has negative consequences, healthy eating, exercise therapy or self improvement for examples. 3 points of addiction #Source = usually child hood or young adult experiences. #Access= how easily and often you can access your addiction #Conditioning , what you do often becomes HABITUAL, your habit becomes your norm, your norm can become excessive and thus leading to Addiction. The main thing that's turn ppl into addicts is the Conditioning. YOU ARE WHAT YOU DO AND PRACTICE NOT what you want or think. It's not a switch, many ppl do understand this, instead will be like...I will live like this and one day when the time is Wright I will change. The issue here is during the process of doing what you want you are Conditioning yourself, so qhen the time comes and you want change you can't as you are conditioned for something else. Only through Years, thats Wright years of working in this can change be possible 💯
Hi again❤ yes it definitely is. I completely understand why but its not good. Some groups practice amongst themselves and have known eachother for years. However at socials unless you really feel uncomfortable with someone with reason then everyone should welcome a dance with both the very good to the baby beginners. I love dancing and happy to dance with anyone at whatever level ❤
Hi Rasa! Since the Pandemic, dancers appear to be more nervous and cliques seem to have become more pronounced and new ones have developed. Age segregation appears to be a new clique that appeared to be less prevalent before. Recently I've been to Salsa nights only to find people ignore me and I find there are more women who are refusing to dance but will dance readily with a teacher or DJ. They will also dance with someone who is friends with the teacher or DJ. A lot of Salsa parties are less well attended and venues are closing. Occasionally I go to a Salsa party and cliques fall away, there's a huge attendance and people are very sociable. This seems to happen less since the Pandemic. The Salsa scene has altered so much it's like going to a completely different event! x
@crescents you are absolutely Wright about things changing post pandemic 💯 There were many illegal parties during lockdown and many people bonded through this kinda like the thick as thieves rule( i go down you you go down) post pandemic some ppl like myself went from dancing 4/5 times a week to 2 or 3 times a.month. others went the other extreme and many stayed with he groups that they found support in during lockdown. As for the age thing, I can only speak for myself but pre lockdown I was the one aways dancing with the older ppl and low level ppl. However not only are they un appreciative but also entitled and have a sour attitude. They are also the ones that gossiping and often the instigators, yet would have the audacity to ask you or expect you to dance after talking dodo about you 🤷♂️ So now I just focus on myself and anyone that is worthy or deserving I will extend certain privileges to. I agree the dynamics of the SBK environment has changed post covid, its just finding the Wright place that vibes with you 💯
About dance addiction, what about looking for venues to dance when travelling around the world? I mean, not travelling specifically for dancing but just taking advantage to try local scene and vibes. I find a very cool thing to go in so many places in the world and be able to speak this "common language" no matter what is the culture, idiom, wheather, religion etc of that particular region
I've been salsa dancing for years in the same places in my area, and I find that some guys only dance with the "hot" girls. I'm an average Black woman, and those guys never ask me to dance. They only dance with non-Black, cute girls. There are some guys that dance with everyone, and I celebrate those guys.
To me, the worst type of cliquey people are the students that only want to dance with teachers at socials and not their fellow students. It may sound mean but in my experience it's generally followers that do this. I've heard a few in our classes comment about some leaders in their classes are not very good at socials so they only want to dance with experienced leaders - all the while not realising it's the experienced leader enabling them to feel and dance better than they actually are. I believe the majority of beginner/improver followers don't realise the difficulty leaders of the same level experience to play their part in the dance. Experienced leaders and followers do know, and how to compensate a partners inexperience.
@jay62nz I agree, everybody wants to dance with good dancers, that's normal, but why not dance with your fellow student friends, it's supposed to be a communal experience 😉
Rasa, could you please make a video about bachata conversation Ofir&Ofri are promoting and your thoughts on it? I often wonder as a follower what is my role in the dance other than following and styling. I think bachata conversation is a very tempting idea, the fact that as a follower you can actually play your part in creating a dance and the leader allowing you space to do that rather than being in control all the time. But I know a lot of people who just think that a good follower equals an obeying follower. I just have this feeling that a conversational dance could be so much more fun and explorative, creative, unique.
Many points to address here, and not.sure which of my comments will be aprroved 👀 Truth is Rasa most ppl dont talk about it on social media which is part of the problem as only through communication can things ever improve I do belive addressing this though will make the SBK Empire stronger
Well, if you have been years on the scene it’s logical that you have developed friendships or closer tights with other dancers. If preferring to dance with them over randos is branded as ”clicky” then I don’t care. The reality is that the dance floor is also a meeting place for friends that don’t get to meet often due to busy lives.
Friends is different to clique. Usually involves a toxic leader who excludes certain people. Easily spot those individuals Loud, attention seeking, charming (it’s fake) and needs to be everyone’s friend- except if they are threatened by you then you are mince meat and usually they pick on quieter people as this unsettles them more than anything (quiet confidence vs their insecurities and constantly needing the limelight).
@cx_n1 from my experience it's not just the loud ones, it can be the quite one too, quite in the sense of not speaking, but quite in the sense of not over sharing or bieng Loud. You 💯 Wright about leader, there has to be a leader of the clique or the clique can not exists. The best way to tell is when the leader is removed, how the ppl change as clique ppl are different when leader is not there 💯 I would also say often it's the quite one's that are most dangerous, the loud one you see coming, the quite one keep inside and you don't know when they will pop, they are also better at hiding an bieng fake. But we can only speak from our own experiences ofcourse.
@ absolutely all experiences are valued and so necessary to be heard. Yes quiet people too also can do I think the important thing is The leader is the one who created all of this in the first instance and I think more people were encouraged to give feedback to teachers promoters. DJs organisers it would be so helpful because then anybody who is starting a clique can be emailed as a first deterrent and advised to not continue this kind of behaviour, in this arena and consider seeking outside help as these issues are affecting other participants negatively. And then if they continue, they can be banned from a period of time or indefinitely Having a good time making connections should never be about dominating spaces and needing to be the centre of attention all the time I feel, it should feel collaborative safe for everyone to enjoy after all. Everyone is putting in so much money time and effort and energy into learning how to dance , and to meet people also
@@cx_n1I agree in principle with everything you said 💯 I don't believe banning or preventing someone from an event unless they pose a physical danger, as ironically we become worser and expose are inability to handle a situation like adults, and It's a child like response. If I really don't like where I am I find somewhere else but will never ask or expect anyone to ban or prevent anyone frind or foe from entry to public event. Freedom is the principle I value most wether it works.in.my favour or against, I say that allday long 💯 I do believe accountability is important and awareness, anyone that is dominant or a leader will have narcissistic or sociopathic trates 💯 me included. Who is more of the danger, the one telling you I have a gun or the one hiding the gun in his jacket 🤔 I never claim.to be the good guy, but what you see is what you get, I don't have a clique but I am friendly if the vibe is there. I admit I have qualities that are not on the possitive spectrum and it always take 2 to tango so I am not innocent but any means nor do I ever claim to be. I sharers not because you asked but hopefully to encourage more to be open and own their Darkside for that is the path to peace ❤
There is a tendency for people of ‘higher’ level to only want to hang out with people of higher level, maybe it is to validate their own level as they need that external validation. Maybe this is due to the lack of self confidence deep down, even though on the surface they may seem to be full of confidence? As you say the scene is filled with people of broken souls, and many tend to unknowingly bond together because of their unresolved childhood traumas. This is possibly where people’s need of being ‘high’ level comes from. The need of being accepted and ultimately being loved. This is one things that dancing with another person can give you and can be quite addictive and possibly harmful to your current relationships as it might blind you if you are not aware of the reasons of why you do what you do and feel. In the end of the day, we are all on our own healing journey, whatever it may be. Dancing is a great conduit for this to happen, but can also be a detrimental if overdone.
When you say "higher level" dancers "hang out" with each other, do you mean that such dancers gravitate to a certain side/corner/area of the dance floor or room? If so, I have observed this myself and I believe the explanation for this is quite simple. As an instructor explained to me, dancers who have achieved a certain level of competence prefer to dance with those of the same level because it's more enjoyable.
@dimball from my experience confidence comes from competency...someone can be confident in something and not in another area but may want to project confidence in general..no one is born confident but anyone can become confident.
@@acpjr it's true , and acceptable but these people take it to another level. They won't dance with anyone who asks them if they believe they are better in any way. It's not common but does exist , it's about 5-15 percent of the dancers in London, in other countries it can be even worse, so not too bad. A good advance dancer can make an intermediate dancer look good and still enjoy the connection, so absolutely no reason to reject beginners or intermediate, we learned because other patient dancers helped us when we made our first steps in social dancing.
The thing is... At least in my local scene. Some people think they are "higher" level but they actually aren't. While I have dance with non-clique dancers who are objectively better dancers than the cliquey types. I think they are just wannabes who had a good start and advanced fast but then stopped their development once it affected their ego. It's easy to look good when your partner is a good dancer and the clique types are hiding their lack of ability by choosing only good dancers.
@voljohe that's not true I believe, not everyone is broken soul, and if you put the work in, genuine work and pass the tests life will throw to see if you have learned then you can become a.healed soul 💯 This is what I believe to be true.
My apologies but won't be able to comment till tomorrow, in short I want to invite anyone to cover one of the themes this video highlights Addiction is always bad, I am very experienced in this field 💯 Hypocrisy of the cliques, like you say most cliquey ppl genuinely don't realise they are part of cliques and would go into denial if confronted. THe conditioning of cliques culture and its connection to broken souls and like attracts like.
I will be slightly controversial and say cliques are/can be healthy. I used to and still try to dance with everyone. However, this can lead to a loss of energy. Also, I think I probably dance around 30 times in a three-hour block. I don’t dance every song. I end up hardly dancing twice with the same person. This means I haven’t developed my connections. Dancing with a person you dance well with is worth 10 dances. My new plan is to dance with anyone in first half of the night. Then focus more on my favourite followers.
Completely agreed with the points. Over here the most cult-like clique I know are all "broken souls" in very similar ways (they even all go to the same therapist). As for the other (saner) cliques, I just gotta get good enough that they'll let me in.
@raresmocanu1743 you comment made me smile, I agree wether it is broken souls, like-minded values and principles or just ppl they connect with, cliques are the same at their core, hence the pull. You know I don't actually think it's always a bad thing as long as they know their place and stick to thier lane 💯 (usually next to DJ or somewhere quite) It's when they have issues with someone and drag the whole clique down with them. we have many examples this year in kizomaba and Urban kiz. There is such thing as a sane clique at like me saying there are honorable thief's. I would.implore you not to try and improve or get into a clique. Rather dance and improve for yourself, then the WRIGHT PPL will come or follow 💯
addiction can be an issue if it hurts other things, responsibilities in particular. spending money is a thing too, even though I'd say it's fairly cheap comparing to other activities, but it depends how far you go with festivals and such. to be honest clique people annoys me more than I would like 😅 so I try to go to places where they are no such people, or at least they are not in focus.
I never understood the point of cliquey. For some reason some people think that it makes them popular or if they consider themselves as popular they will act in that manner. I actively try to dance with everyone at least once during the social events. Not just that but also socialize with lot of different people from beginners to experienced. Lot of people have noted that it seems that I know everyone (I don't really know everyone, but it makes it look like that) and I generally have good reputation and popularity thanks to it. Most liked people are the ones who are open to everyone. This is true in every settings and hobby, so I have always struggled to understand why some people would choose be in cliquey. It's very short sighted and ends ups sabotaging their chances to have good dances.
@Tespri I am glad your experience has been good from what I understand of your comment. Being open does not always mean being liked.i am.afraid but I would still encourage ppl.to be so. However if ppl have not reciprocated then I would not be open again to them. Also there is alot of spying unfortunately, and ppl will use information you share for thier own agenda. There is alot if backstabbing for pum in the kiz world and I assume its similar in Salsa and Bachata as the same type of characters are present. Also women will.use you when.they need.you and then be rude.when they don't. This is not just from.my experience but many others that would.not say online. So open is good but must be smart too. JELOUSLY is another factor but the biggest game changer. Believe it or not I was alot worse in comments and postings, I mean I was rude and had no class and was more picky sometimes and yet had more friends and popularity. Only when I started posting Good life and making smarter.better decisions I got alot of hate from.family,friends even ppl I don't have a clue exist 😅but more fans 🤔 life 🤷♂️
@@gogokizomba6903 It seems that you confuse being open as same as not having any self-control over what you say. With being open I mean that I don't really discriminate on who I dance with or talk to. I keep everything mostly on superficial level so there won't be any "secrets" being spread around. I'm also talking from perspective of male/leader. Men don't commonly engage in "spy" and "backstabbing" aspects, and men who do are usually viewed too feminine and end up sabotaging themselves with such behavior. Being open doesn't mean that you're being "Too nice" either. I have been like this most of my life, and I have usually around 100 people in my birthday parties. So far what I have heard I have good reputation and negative rumors quickly disperse as long as you're not acting rude.
@Tespri thank you for your explanation, I have to agree with your points about self control in what you say, I admit I have been guilty of this myself, we all must learn I guess. The point about self sabotage is true as I noticed they don't get the girls, but sometimes it can be about blocking rather than getting results, I am glad for you have never experienced this and hope you never have too. I would not advise accociating the number of ppl attending your birthday party as an indicator of being liked and relying on peoples validation is not always a good thing from my experience but each to their own, if it is what makes you happy, thats all that matters 💯
@@gogokizomba6903 Well I don't have issue with women. I already have girlfriend and lot of dancers have said that if I were single they would go for me. Regarding to parties though, my Birthday happens to be at very bad time to year so people really need to care me at some extend to bother to come there. Too many festivals and events same time. But I get your point, however I have my core group of friends who I know that are loyal (personally witnessed it when times are tough).
Or what about people who make others feel pushed out because they are doing EXACTLY how u describe, getting in with promoters or too dancers but also everyone. Then leave you out then your done, you can’t talk to even the people you were precious talking group as you are then pushed out. Identify those types u described (imo) and teachers / organisers could discourage this, otherwise it just becomes like guru worship! It’s great to get good at dance but it’s also great to heal our childhood traumas and many prefer to continue.. playing out the same ‘I’m the special child’ dynamic in large groups.
Fortunetely, I think our Dancing Community is 80% Not-Clickey in comparison with other Communities I experienced, but it seems that these 20% Clickey Folks seems to be Clickey by Nature ... I mean they behave like that in any Communities they are part, it's what I obsverved, maybe I am wrong 😅 ...
I just want make comment hit 50, Respect and Kindness, we don't all need to like eachother or even Dance together but if we practice RESPECT and KINDNESS many problems will be solved 💯
A related topic is what duty or responsibility experienced, good dancers have to dance with beginners and improvers. Rasa, when you say "cliquey people may not know they're cliquey" I think that is true, and a question we should ask ourselves is "am I cliquey?" I believe that if we wish this thing called "social dancing" to thrive, we must consciously avoid being cliquish and snobbish and seek out beginners to dance with and inspire and ignite the fire in them that is with in us. It's the only way we can withstand snobs and cliques, otherwise a scene will wither and die.
@acpjr I agree and disagree,
Agree that the Dance Community will thrive if more beginners are inspired to dance.
I disagree with any view that put responsibility on Dancer not involved ( teaching,organising, dj) to dance with beginners. They pay their money, it's responsibility of organiser to cater for this and teachers to promote etiquette not customers No matter how skilled or advanced they are.
If ppl want dance with ppl they should try being nice rather than entitled 💯
Absolutely 😉
@@gogokizomba6903 You have the ability to nurture the community that you love. If it's not that important to you, then my comments were not directed to you.
@@acpjr you got a point there 💯
It's addictive! Every time before I travel to a destination, I search online for the local SBK schools/events/workshops of the place. It's also a nice way get to know locals and build connections.
Oh absolutely 💯
There is a downside to the addiction in terms of money. I’ve spent so much money this year on classes, events and festivals. I love dancing, but I sometimes feel like I’m spending above my means
Yeah, that definitely can be an issue, but at least you spending on smth you love to do than random useless things 😉
I'm pleased to be at a stage in life (with a broken soul way past saving :) that the need for in-clique acceptance has thankfully receded.
@@sidstam 👍👍👍😁
Sometimes it's not so much clique but groups of friends that have known each other for a long time so people new to the scene find it harder to mix or join in, but I do understand the part you are saying and yes there probably are groupies lol
There is that too 😊
@@ojolennon I had a strange experience when I was New a guy friended me and gave me lots of information would meet me at the events would integrate me in, then he would say things like don’t just dance with me dance with others as well. Which of course I was going to do but I was pretty new and finding my feet some people just take a bit of time anyway then he would go off and talk to every single person because he was a busy body and needed to act like he knows everyone and introduces everyone everyone else. Then we were quite close friends for awhile and he told me nobody from the Dance community is his friend Im his only actual friend who talks to him outside of the community. Then I noticed controlling behaviour from him like if I went to an event without him he would be upset, but also he wouldn’t always tell me where he was going and nor did I care. Or when I found a date, he was really annoyed and then the next time I saw him, he messed up my hair when we met! so even though he asked integrated he’s not on the outside and still to stay I find it difficult to be friends with anyone because like person has mentioned everyone already is in a group. Personally I think it’s a big problem. My only solution is I’m going to organise events for people who are not integrated it means, little breakaway groups unfortunately
Sure I'm addicted!! A few years ago I left the work Christmas party early(which took place in another city), so that I can go to the salsa party nearby 😀
@@RadoGG 😅😅😅😅
Batchata is very addictive. It can be addictive in a bad way but the physical and mental benefits and the fun vibe compensates. It's bad when you prioritize batchata congress over exploring places and variety of other activities. For years my preference is a batchata festival. Its hard to merge in other activities during a congress as it is physically hard to dance 6 to 11 hrs 3-4 consecutive dates. Also going to batchata every week or multiple times a week means that you are giving up other options to connect with new people. Overall batchata is the most enjoyable activity and skill I ever practiced. Life is so much better dancing.
I think its important to do what you want rather than what you think you should 😉.
Hi. Been dancing for over 20 years and it was soon obvious that teachers gather a ‘following’ shall we say! Yes it’s very obvious and you make excellent observations! You take care.
👍👍👍
Thank you Rasa❤❤❤
Welcome 😊
Pro level Addicted here, i Change city, home and job just for be near to the best dance school in my region 😂. And plan to move to Barcelona in a few years...
😅😅😅I think wanting to learn from the best if a bit different than what I'm talking about. So you go for it 🥰
@@KenpachiKanto Barcelona amazing. How was it compared to London? Would you say? I have a friend who goes there regularly!
@@cx_n1 I speak for Bachata, in London you have some very good teachers like Owen y Eva, but in Barcelona there are a LOT of dance good schools and the BS Dance Center by Korke y Judith, and the socials are just another things a lot of artist and also the amateurs have an amazing level
@@KenpachiKanto that’s incredible thank you! I can’t wait to go. Do you have any videos of of you dancing in Barce!? Happy to be an insta follower if you have it 😄
You describe things well, and I think there is also another aspect to cliquey when broken souls are using the dance scene to exert power control over others this isn’t easily seen u less u directly experience it which many do. Imo it ought to be discouraged for power hungry individuals to try and claim everyone as their closest ally, this is not friendship but rather fear leading to duping others intro thinking they are influential and ‘well liked’ when actually they are selfish and want as much of the social pie to themselves as possible. A support group could be set up for individuals who have been on the receiving end of such behaviours, there are many but too afraid to speak up as these individuals take over and become far too influential. It’s a shame really.
@@akoliytv very good point 👉
@akoliytv, you make a very valid point, its true this will not be talked about for many reasons.
Your idea about support group is well intentende, from my experience and observation there is alot of talk behind ppls back in the SBK world. Meaning ppl will betray ppl for thier own gain, yes this is everywhere, but prevalant in SBK.
Also there is the Victim mentality, where ppl ironically 😢are either mean, rude or bullies, but will claim victim status when they encounter a bigger predator, which say alot in itself.
Truth is you can be a hero to someone and a villan to another, question really is what is relevant to you, ppls approval or attention or beingn then person you want to be and be happy with yourself. When you become happy with yourself, many things are background noise.
I say this because you are Wright about many not talking about it, but solution in reality is you will never change ppl only yourself, and that's they key that I found to work 💯
@@gogokizomba6903 I think what I get from reading these comments is an overriding feeling that there is usually one person driving this and identifying them and perhaps teachers stepping in to discourage things getting too close with people as it makes many others feel pushed out. It’s organisers responsibility to dish out a code of conduct especially around respectful behaviour towards others. Clique = toxic leader = bullying (usually via exclusion)
It’s all relatively new and developing and we have opportunities to encourage awareness around such issues by rasing them everywhere
It’s social not guru worship imo at least but of course I may be wrong about it, but that why I want to create my own so this kind of thing is minimised. So those who like cliques and guru worship and be sheep at the usual events and there will be different events that are free of this sort of thing
@cx_n1 💯
Cliques definitely exist and your description is bang on. It's particularly noticeable at the Congresses when certain teachers congregate with their usual entourage and nobody else gets to dance with them. I've given up trying, good riddance to them. I'd rather have a fun dance with someone else.
This is the only attitude that works with cliques, ignore them 💯 focus on your own night. The funny thing is you often find sheep that have strayed form the heard alot different than when around the cliques, but same attitude must be reflected.
It meas you can be nice but don't forget who they really are 👀
Me too ✋️
👍👍👍
Honestly, dancing with teachers most of the time is just horrible experience. I only had couple good experiences. There is better chemistry and connection among normal dances than with teachers most of the time. I generally give everyone a dance, but don't really give second dances or actively seek cliquey type of people. I highly dislike elitism and I think people who are into that are just narcissists.
@@gogokizomba6903 sheep strayed 😂 I’m dead. It’s so true. Keep one eye open thats what I do too. Worse is when one is taking over entire bacahta, u ain’t seen nothing yet. There’s a super clique chick on the scene now and she won’t stop until absolutely every territory is fully conquered. It’s her life’s mission now I believe. She openly says how competitive she is too and I’m thinking, it’s meant to be collaborative not all about one person. But anyway she has the know how to pull the wool over insane numbers, few see it. She butters up everyone and gets exactly what she wants and needs. No one else can take her spot, she has to always be centre. I’m creating an anti clique event which will bar the leaders straight up, anyone can make something if they are experiencing this, take back power and let it inspire something positive to emerge 💫
I feels it can be difficult for beginners to get into it coz many leaders have prefered people they dance with
@@daisyd9852 beginners are ok, there's plenty of people who dance with everyone 😊
I am definitely addicted to dancing bachata! I Love it! I noticed that it can be very judgemental when your body needs a proper rest or battles with injures, but people are still going to dance because of all the benefits they are experiencing. It's such an battle for lot of them.I feel blessed I never had an severe injury but am really concious about how my body feels and protect it by taking enough rest even if I really want to go out. But yeah, its hard sometimes.
Definitely protect your body 😊😉
@@maritwoudenberg615 Health has to come first, definitely
I think you are wrong. My last vacations ... Malaga in May, danced 3 nights out of 4. Mallorca in July, danced 4 nights out of 5. Malaga in August, danced 2 nights out of 3. Tuscany in October, danced 3 nights out of 4. Tuscany in November, danced 3 nights out of 4. Barcelona in December, danced 2 nights out of 3. Yes, I like mini-vacations with low-cost flights, with the weekend in the middle not to burn my vacation days.
Mmm, what about work trips? Oulu in August, danced 3 nights out of 7. 8 trips to Copenhagen staying there for the night, dancing 8 nights out of 8. Brussels in September, dancing 2 nights out of 4. Barcelona in December, dancing 4 nights out of 4.
OUCH, I think you are right, we dance a lot!
@@michelemalbano 🤣🤣🤣
So many hard truths and valid points on this video 💯
Let's talk addiction, in short anything in extremes has negative consequences, healthy eating, exercise therapy or self improvement for examples.
3 points of addiction
#Source = usually child hood or young adult experiences.
#Access= how easily and often you can access your addiction
#Conditioning , what you do often becomes HABITUAL, your habit becomes your norm, your norm can become excessive and thus leading to Addiction.
The main thing that's turn ppl into addicts is the Conditioning. YOU ARE WHAT YOU DO AND PRACTICE NOT what you want or think. It's not a switch, many ppl do understand this, instead will be like...I will live like this and one day when the time is Wright I will change. The issue here is during the process of doing what you want you are Conditioning yourself, so qhen the time comes and you want change you can't as you are conditioned for something else.
Only through Years, thats Wright years of working in this can change be possible 💯
Hi again❤ yes it definitely is. I completely understand why but its not good. Some groups practice amongst themselves and have known eachother for years. However at socials unless you really feel uncomfortable with someone with reason then everyone should welcome a dance with both the very good to the baby beginners. I love dancing and happy to dance with anyone at whatever level ❤
Exactly!!
Hi Rasa! Since the Pandemic, dancers appear to be more nervous and cliques seem to have become more pronounced and new ones have developed. Age segregation appears to be a new clique that appeared to be less prevalent before. Recently I've been to Salsa nights only to find people ignore me and I find there are more women who are refusing to dance but will dance readily with a teacher or DJ. They will also dance with someone who is friends with the teacher or DJ. A lot of Salsa parties are less well attended and venues are closing. Occasionally I go to a Salsa party and cliques fall away, there's a huge attendance and people are very sociable. This seems to happen less since the Pandemic. The Salsa scene has altered so much it's like going to a completely different event! x
I feel the same 😉
@@DanceWithRasa Pleased you addressed this Rasa. It's always been present but recently it's become intolerable at times! xx
@crescents you are absolutely Wright about things changing post pandemic 💯
There were many illegal parties during lockdown and many people bonded through this kinda like the thick as thieves rule( i go down you you go down) post pandemic some ppl like myself went from dancing 4/5 times a week to 2 or 3 times a.month. others went the other extreme and many stayed with he groups that they found support in during lockdown.
As for the age thing, I can only speak for myself but pre lockdown I was the one aways dancing with the older ppl and low level ppl. However not only are they un appreciative but also entitled and have a sour attitude. They are also the ones that gossiping and often the instigators, yet would have the audacity to ask you or expect you to dance after talking dodo about you 🤷♂️
So now I just focus on myself and anyone that is worthy or deserving I will extend certain privileges to.
I agree the dynamics of the SBK environment has changed post covid, its just finding the Wright place that vibes with you 💯
Always been curious what cliques look like outside of London, as in is it more or less
It's definitely less 😉
About dance addiction, what about looking for venues to dance when travelling around the world? I mean, not travelling specifically for dancing but just taking advantage to try local scene and vibes. I find a very cool thing to go in so many places in the world and be able to speak this "common language" no matter what is the culture, idiom, wheather, religion etc of that particular region
Absolutely 💯
I've been salsa dancing for years in the same places in my area, and I find that some guys only dance with the "hot" girls.
I'm an average Black woman, and those guys never ask me to dance. They only dance with non-Black, cute girls.
There are some guys that dance with everyone, and I celebrate those guys.
@@DR-lf5rg there always people like that , but thank god not the majority 🙏
To me, the worst type of cliquey people are the students that only want to dance with teachers at socials and not their fellow students. It may sound mean but in my experience it's generally followers that do this. I've heard a few in our classes comment about some leaders in their classes are not very good at socials so they only want to dance with experienced leaders - all the while not realising it's the experienced leader enabling them to feel and dance better than they actually are. I believe the majority of beginner/improver followers don't realise the difficulty leaders of the same level experience to play their part in the dance. Experienced leaders and followers do know, and how to compensate a partners inexperience.
@jay62nz I agree, everybody wants to dance with good dancers, that's normal, but why not dance with your fellow student friends, it's supposed to be a communal experience 😉
Rasa, could you please make a video about bachata conversation Ofir&Ofri are promoting and your thoughts on it? I often wonder as a follower what is my role in the dance other than following and styling. I think bachata conversation is a very tempting idea, the fact that as a follower you can actually play your part in creating a dance and the leader allowing you space to do that rather than being in control all the time. But I know a lot of people who just think that a good follower equals an obeying follower. I just have this feeling that a conversational dance could be so much more fun and explorative, creative, unique.
Very good point 👉
I agree and i think that this comversation stuff exists since a lomg time in lots of dances but not under that label
Thank you Rasa! Nooo, dance isn't a bad addiction 😁
😁😁😁
Many points to address here, and not.sure which of my comments will be aprroved 👀
Truth is Rasa most ppl dont
talk about it on social media which is part of the problem as only through communication can things ever improve
I do belive addressing this though will make the SBK Empire stronger
😏😉
Well, if you have been years on the scene it’s logical that you have developed friendships or closer tights with other dancers. If preferring to dance with them over randos is branded as ”clicky” then I don’t care. The reality is that the dance floor is also a meeting place for friends that don’t get to meet often due to busy lives.
There is a difference between hanging out with friends and being clicky, it's when you hang out with better dancers wanting to be there friends 😊
Friends is different to clique. Usually involves a toxic leader who excludes certain people. Easily spot those individuals Loud, attention seeking, charming (it’s fake) and needs to be everyone’s friend- except if they are threatened by you then you are mince meat and usually they pick on quieter people as this unsettles them more than anything (quiet confidence vs their insecurities and constantly needing the limelight).
@cx_n1 from my experience it's not just the loud ones, it can be the quite one too, quite in the sense of not speaking, but quite in the sense of not over sharing or bieng Loud.
You 💯 Wright about leader, there has to be a leader of the clique or the clique can not exists.
The best way to tell is when the leader is removed, how the ppl change as clique ppl are different when leader is not there 💯
I would also say often it's the quite one's that are most dangerous, the loud one you see coming, the quite one keep inside and you don't know when they will pop, they are also better at hiding an bieng fake. But we can only speak from our own experiences ofcourse.
I would also add that they pick on ppl that they can't control, influence or ignore them again only from my experience can I speak of.
@ absolutely all experiences are valued and so necessary to be heard.
Yes quiet people too also can do
I think the important thing is The leader is the one who created all of this in the first instance and I think more people were encouraged to give feedback to teachers promoters. DJs organisers it would be so helpful because then anybody who is starting a clique can be emailed as a first deterrent and advised to not continue this kind of behaviour, in this arena and consider seeking outside help as these issues are affecting other participants negatively.
And then if they continue, they can be banned from a period of time or indefinitely
Having a good time making connections should never be about dominating spaces and needing to be the centre of attention all the time I feel, it should feel collaborative safe for everyone to enjoy after all. Everyone is putting in so much money time and effort and energy into learning how to dance , and to meet people also
@@cx_n1I agree in principle with everything you said 💯
I don't believe banning or preventing someone from an event unless they pose a physical danger, as ironically we become worser and expose are inability to handle a situation like adults, and It's a child like response. If I really don't like where I am I find somewhere else but will never ask or expect anyone to ban or prevent anyone frind or foe from entry to public event.
Freedom is the principle I value most wether it works.in.my favour or against, I say that allday long 💯
I do believe accountability is important and awareness, anyone that is dominant or a leader will have narcissistic or sociopathic trates 💯 me included. Who is more of the danger, the one telling you I have a gun or the one hiding the gun in his jacket 🤔
I never claim.to be the good guy, but what you see is what you get, I don't have a clique but I am friendly if the vibe is there. I admit I have qualities that are not on the possitive spectrum and it always take 2 to tango so I am not innocent but any means nor do I ever claim to be.
I sharers not because you asked but hopefully to encourage more to be open and own their Darkside for that is the path to peace ❤
Very good observation 👌
There is a tendency for people of ‘higher’ level to only want to hang out with people of higher level, maybe it is to validate their own level as they need that external validation. Maybe this is due to the lack of self confidence deep down, even though on the surface they may seem to be full of confidence? As you say the scene is filled with people of broken souls, and many tend to unknowingly bond together because of their unresolved childhood traumas. This is possibly where people’s need of being ‘high’ level comes from. The need of being accepted and ultimately being loved. This is one things that dancing with another person can give you and can be quite addictive and possibly harmful to your current relationships as it might blind you if you are not aware of the reasons of why you do what you do and feel.
In the end of the day, we are all on our own healing journey, whatever it may be. Dancing is a great conduit for this to happen, but can also be a detrimental if overdone.
Good observation 👍
When you say "higher level" dancers "hang out" with each other, do you mean that such dancers gravitate to a certain side/corner/area of the dance floor or room? If so, I have observed this myself and I believe the explanation for this is quite simple. As an instructor explained to me, dancers who have achieved a certain level of competence prefer to dance with those of the same level because it's more enjoyable.
@dimball from my experience confidence comes from competency...someone can be confident in something and not in another area but may want to project confidence in general..no one is born confident but anyone can become confident.
@@acpjr it's true , and acceptable but these people take it to another level. They won't dance with anyone who asks them if they believe they are better in any way. It's not common but does exist , it's about 5-15 percent of the dancers in London, in other countries it can be even worse, so not too bad. A good advance dancer can make an intermediate dancer look good and still enjoy the connection, so absolutely no reason to reject beginners or intermediate, we learned because other patient dancers helped us when we made our first steps in social dancing.
The thing is... At least in my local scene. Some people think they are "higher" level but they actually aren't. While I have dance with non-clique dancers who are objectively better dancers than the cliquey types. I think they are just wannabes who had a good start and advanced fast but then stopped their development once it affected their ego. It's easy to look good when your partner is a good dancer and the clique types are hiding their lack of ability by choosing only good dancers.
So true lol😂 I’m definitely a broken soul.
@@voljohe me too 😉😉
That's everyone! 😂
@voljohe that's not true I believe, not everyone is broken soul, and if you put the work in, genuine work and pass the tests life will throw to see if you have learned then you can become a.healed soul 💯
This is what I believe to be true.
My apologies but won't be able to comment till tomorrow, in short I want to invite anyone to cover one of the themes this video highlights
Addiction is always bad, I am very experienced in this field 💯
Hypocrisy of the cliques, like you say most cliquey ppl genuinely don't realise they are part of cliques and would go into denial if confronted.
THe conditioning of cliques culture and its connection to broken souls and like attracts like.
👍👍👍
I will be slightly controversial and say cliques are/can be healthy. I used to and still try to dance with everyone. However, this can lead to a loss of energy. Also, I think I probably dance around 30 times in a three-hour block. I don’t dance every song. I end up hardly dancing twice with the same person. This means I haven’t developed my connections. Dancing with a person you dance well with is worth 10 dances. My new plan is to dance with anyone in first half of the night. Then focus more on my favourite followers.
@@yogicfire that's a fair observation 👌
Completely agreed with the points. Over here the most cult-like clique I know are all "broken souls" in very similar ways (they even all go to the same therapist).
As for the other (saner) cliques, I just gotta get good enough that they'll let me in.
@raresmocanu1743 you comment made me smile, I agree wether it is broken souls, like-minded values and principles or just ppl they connect with, cliques are the same at their core, hence the pull.
You know I don't actually think it's always a bad thing as long as they know their place and stick to thier lane 💯 (usually next to DJ or somewhere quite)
It's when they have issues with someone and drag the whole clique down with them. we have many examples this year in kizomaba and Urban kiz.
There is such thing as a sane clique at like me saying there are honorable thief's. I would.implore you not to try and improve or get into a clique. Rather dance and improve for yourself, then the WRIGHT PPL will come or follow 💯
100 percent extremely clique
👍👍
addiction can be an issue if it hurts other things, responsibilities in particular. spending money is a thing too, even though I'd say it's fairly cheap comparing to other activities, but it depends how far you go with festivals and such.
to be honest clique people annoys me more than I would like 😅 so I try to go to places where they are no such people, or at least they are not in focus.
😁😁
I never understood the point of cliquey. For some reason some people think that it makes them popular or if they consider themselves as popular they will act in that manner. I actively try to dance with everyone at least once during the social events. Not just that but also socialize with lot of different people from beginners to experienced. Lot of people have noted that it seems that I know everyone (I don't really know everyone, but it makes it look like that) and I generally have good reputation and popularity thanks to it.
Most liked people are the ones who are open to everyone. This is true in every settings and hobby, so I have always struggled to understand why some people would choose be in cliquey. It's very short sighted and ends ups sabotaging their chances to have good dances.
Agreed 👍
@Tespri I am glad your experience has been good from what I understand of your comment.
Being open does not always mean being liked.i am.afraid but I would still encourage ppl.to be so.
However if ppl have not reciprocated then I would not be open again to them. Also there is alot of spying unfortunately, and ppl will use information you share for thier own agenda. There is alot if backstabbing for pum in the kiz world and I assume its similar in Salsa and Bachata as the same type of characters are present. Also women will.use you when.they need.you and then be rude.when they don't. This is not just from.my experience but many others that would.not say online.
So open is good but must be smart too. JELOUSLY is another factor but the biggest game changer.
Believe it or not I was alot worse in comments and postings, I mean I was rude and had no class and was more picky sometimes and yet had more friends and popularity.
Only when I started posting Good life and making smarter.better decisions I got alot of hate from.family,friends even ppl I don't have a clue exist 😅but more fans 🤔 life 🤷♂️
@@gogokizomba6903 It seems that you confuse being open as same as not having any self-control over what you say. With being open I mean that I don't really discriminate on who I dance with or talk to. I keep everything mostly on superficial level so there won't be any "secrets" being spread around.
I'm also talking from perspective of male/leader. Men don't commonly engage in "spy" and "backstabbing" aspects, and men who do are usually viewed too feminine and end up sabotaging themselves with such behavior.
Being open doesn't mean that you're being "Too nice" either.
I have been like this most of my life, and I have usually around 100 people in my birthday parties. So far what I have heard I have good reputation and negative rumors quickly disperse as long as you're not acting rude.
@Tespri thank you for your explanation,
I have to agree with your points about self control in what you say, I admit I have been guilty of this myself, we all must learn I guess. The point about self sabotage is true as I noticed they don't get the girls, but sometimes it can be about blocking rather than getting results, I am glad for you have never experienced this and hope you never have too.
I would not advise accociating the number of ppl attending your birthday party as an indicator of being liked and relying on peoples validation is not always a good thing from my experience but each to their own, if it is what makes you happy, thats all that matters 💯
@@gogokizomba6903
Well I don't have issue with women. I already have girlfriend and lot of dancers have said that if I were single they would go for me.
Regarding to parties though, my Birthday happens to be at very bad time to year so people really need to care me at some extend to bother to come there. Too many festivals and events same time.
But I get your point, however I have my core group of friends who I know that are loyal (personally witnessed it when times are tough).
Or what about people who make others feel pushed out because they are doing EXACTLY how u describe, getting in with promoters or too dancers but also everyone. Then leave you out then your done, you can’t talk to even the people you were precious talking group as you are then pushed out. Identify those types u described (imo) and teachers / organisers could discourage this, otherwise it just becomes like guru worship! It’s great to get good at dance but it’s also great to heal our childhood traumas and many prefer to continue.. playing out the same ‘I’m the special child’ dynamic in large groups.
Absolutely, that's why I always teach my students to mingle migle mingle 😇
looking forward to Sharine / yes you dance with everyone / its the way it should be
@@evertondod 🥰🥰🥰
Unfortunately but there are clicky teachers as well. So sad were not one community but there are lots of us who try. 😊
Yes !
Well yes bad addiction if it affects your self care.
@@akoliytv truth 😉
Fortunetely, I think our Dancing Community is 80% Not-Clickey in comparison with other Communities I experienced, but it seems that these 20% Clickey Folks seems to be Clickey by Nature ... I mean they behave like that in any Communities they are part, it's what I obsverved, maybe I am wrong 😅 ...
@@AzdT93 😁😁😁
I just want make comment hit 50, Respect and Kindness, we don't all need to like eachother or even Dance together but if we practice RESPECT and KINDNESS many problems will be solved 💯
@@gogokizomba6903 absolutely 💯
Cliquey and clicky have completely different meanings. You're confusing them throughout the whole video.
It's a language thing, the meaning and intention are the same throughout - but thank you for your message ☺️