Beta's response to main bearing failures RR300 RR250 Xtrainer︱Cross Training Enduro
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- www.crosstraini... tractionerag.com An update on the main bearing failures in Beta RR250 RR300 and Xtrainer models for 2018 and 2019 models. Unfortunately we have early reports from Europe that 2020 Beta main bearing failures are occurring, although in lesser numbers. It hasn't been mentioned in Beta RR300 2020 reviews, which would suggest numbers are low. We finally have some answers from Beta, although very brief answers. But first a Beta main bearing review of noises and problems. Quite a few viewers emailed me about main bearing failures. A quick online search showed a few main bearing failures between 2014 and 2017. These occurred between 40 and 100 hours for no apparent reason but in very low numbers, and not mentioned in early Beta RR300 and RR250 reviews. However the incidence picked up dramatically in Beta RR300 Xtrainer 2018 models, and occurred earlier - often less than 10 hours on the engine. Further searches and inquiries unearthed many cases for the 2018 and 2019 RR250 Xtrainer and RR300 models. One Xtrainer failed in less than an hour, and several bikes even had two or three main bearing failures over time. It usually starts with a main bearing noise so listen out for it. We really hope 2020 reviews for Beta Xtrainer and RR300 etc report it's fixed.
I emailed Beta head office and several distributors the following questions about Beta RR250 RR300 and Xtrainer main bearing failures for 2018 and 2019. Beta USA replied promptly as follows. I should mention that Beta USA have been very supportive of affected with seized bottom end owners and there's plenty of very positive feedback on how rapidly bikes were fixed under warranty, and even outside of warranty. What is causing all these main bearing failures that don't appear in 2019 RR250 reviews? We don't expect it in 2020 Beta RR300 reviews as apparently it's been resolved. An assembly problem in the factory for 2018 and 2019 RR250 Xtrainer and RR300 models. Not much detail, but it rules out all the other theories. Can owners do anything to lessen the risk? No. So even more reason to want it fixed before 2020 Beta Xtrainer reviews. Which makes sense if the problem occurred in the factory. There are no details on which bikes could fail. We just know that all 2018 and 2019 Xtrainer RR300 reviews don't mention it but are at risk. Beta USA says it's less than a 5% failure rate. This roughly concurs with what we've been hearing from various dealers and mechanics. A disturbing story is hearing that in some countries the warranty might not be honored if main bearings fail after 70 hours, because the manual specifies replacement then. Given that would be for bikes under race conditions, I seriously hope no distributor or dealer thinks of trying this. It's great to see Beta USA isn't. Given it's a known issue, will main bearing bearing failures be fixed outside of warranty as well? Beta USA has been, lets hope Beta head office insists this happens worldwide. Many owners suspected the cause was the oil injection system, apparently it's not. Given so many dealers and owners don't seem to be aware of the problem, will a technical bulletin be issued by head office? It's unlikely. Beta Australia says they pay a fair rate to dealers for warranty claims. Will the problem be fixed for the 2020 models and how? Apparently it has been fixed, but no details on how, here or in 2019 Beta reviews RR300 RR250 or Xtrainer. I should mention that the United Kingdom distributor never replied to these questions. However we did hear from the Australian distributor whose replies are almost identical. And a couple of months later we did eventually get a reply from Beta head office. With essentially identical answers but not mentioned in 2019 Beta RR300 reviews. So we have some answers. Kind of. We don't know exactly what has been going wrong in the factory. But according to a Beta dealer who has had to fix several bikes the races in the bearing break, the ball bearings then pack to one side and cause the bearing to lock. The locked bearing can then spin in the crank assembly and require new engine cases. Here are cases found on social media and also reported to me, not in a 2019 Beta RR300 review. But it shows all the two stroke models are affected if not discussed in 2019 Beta RR300 reviews.
• Beta main bearing fail...
www.dirtbikewor...
advrider.com/f...
www.betarider.o...
#betamainbearing #beta2020review #RR3002020
FIXED YET? HOW WILL BETA HELP? POSSIBLE CAUSES? & HEAD OFFICE STATEMENT
STILL AN ISSUE IN 2020, 2021 & 2022 MODELS? A quiet chat with sponsored riders in Europe indicated it was still happening in 2020 models but at a much lower rate, one case was at only six hours. A viewer told me he attended a Beta demo ride day and the 2020 RR250 developed a main bearing noise and was pulled out halfway through the event. Another case was a 2020 RR300 at 10 hours, they replaced the entire engine but the new engine had the faulty bearing sound already. A 2021 model failed right off the showroom floor but that may have just been a freak occurrence hopefully. In another case, a 2021 model failed at 25 hours. There are a very small number of cases right up to 2022 models. A 2022 Xtrainer had both bearings fail at 35 hours. We hope this is an isolated case and it has really been fixed for 2022. Read more here: bit.ly/3KHhP1Z
WHAT SUPPORT CAN YOU EXPECT FROM BETA?
Beta head office has now publicly stated they will repair all main bearing failures in or out of warranty up to 90 hours (with the obvious exception of user error e.g. drowned engines, running without oil etc). Beta head office pays five hours labor for repairs, but not for fluids. You might find your dealer charges you for fluids and possibly a portion of labor if it takes longer than five hours - most dealers are paying the difference out of their own pocket though. However, the level of support may change after 90 hours, as the Beta manual recommends replacing the main bearings at this point. This is widely regarded as being for race bikes only, but it does technically give Beta the option of not fixing the bike after this. In most cases, Beta is still repairing bikes but in some cases they are only providing parts, and not paying for labor, or just a percentage. If you disagree with this, you may need to take your case to your Beta distributor, then Beta head office, then finally pursue your case through consumer law.
WHAT ABOUT MULTIPLE BEARING FAILURES?
In a small number of cases, owners have had three consecutive main bearing failures. Beta dealers told me they were tending to replace the crankcase as well in those situations because there may have been a flaw in the actual crankcase. I don't know if this is official Beta policy, and if it has still continued.
POSSIBLE CAUSE(S)
There were lots of early theories mainly around the oil injection failing or a bad batch of bearings - there was no real evidence of either. Given the lack of detail from the factory, there's a bit of an informal network of mechanics/dealers over the past few years trying to get to the bottom of it all. Their current opinions?
ONE the interference fit is very tight for the left hand main bearing. So warm the engine case in an oven (don't use a blow torch as this may warp the case), put the bearing in a freezer, then it should go in with almost no pressure. It's possible some bearings may have been damaged by being forced in, just heating the cases meant a lot of pressure can be needed to overcome the very tight interference fit.
One Beta mechanic is 'linishing' the crankcase so it's not such a tight fit. He thinks this may be causing some of the repeat failures.
TWO Check that the crank is spinning freely. The very tight interference fit may have created lateral pressure if not assembled in the factory correctly. When being repaired, be sure to tap the crankcase until lateral pressure is relieved on the bearing so the crank spins freely. Unrelieved lateral pressure may cause the bearing to wear prematurely.
THREE When assembling, ensure the left hand engine case is heated evenly in an oven when installing the main bearing. It appears that Beta head office did eventually admit to at least one distributor that the 'assembly problem' was incorrect heating of the engine case which caused warping. I don't know if Beta mechanics would have a way to check this reliably or not. But where a second or third main bearing failure has occurred (despite correct installation as above) then a new engine case could be required. When customers are coming back with their second or third failure, some Beta mechanics are now replacing the crankcase as well in case this warping was the problem.
FOUR In a small number of cases, there has been evidence of rust - even in some bikes with very low hours. This suggests a small number of failures may have been due to faulty seals. Running your bike after washing it should be a good preventative measure.
FIVE You will read below Beta head office changed their mind and said their bearing manufacturer supplied faulty bearings. Their supplier is NTN and it's hard to believe this Japanese company would let faulty bearings through their quality control process. However, if this was the case then it wouldn't explain why main bearing failures are still continuing after so long. At best it might have been a cause in the past but won't explain why 2020 models are still failing.
BETA HEAD OFFICE'S STATEMENT ON THE CAUSE
To date, Beta head office has given two general reasons for the cause. At first Beta said it was an 'assembly problem' but did not provide further details. Months later they changed this to a 'supplier problem' and said they were given incorrect bearings. This was in an interview with Enduro 21. Here is their marketing manager's statement:
Stefano Soldani: “We had a problem with the two-stroke 250 and 300 models, due to an error of one of our suppliers. It was not spread to all of the bikes produced last year but the ones that were assembled with the wrong batch that the supplier sent us were affected. We worked really close with our dealers and distributors and we gave complete support to the customers affected by it. We are not the kind of company that, when something is wrong, turns their face around. We know that the mechanics is not always perfect so it’s very important to give the correct service to the users. It’s under control.”
Read the interview here: @t
I've checked again and according to one Beta distributor it's back to being 'an assembly problem' as they were heating the engine cases incorrectly, causing them to warp.
CORRECTION: This is my bad. In the vid I stated dealers are only allotted four hours labour time for main bearing warranty claims when it can take twice that time. It is actually five hours - my apologies for the mistake. Also the factory refuses to reimburse dealers for any fluids so they have to pay for engine oil and radiator coolant etc. As a result, some dealers have have refused to do these warranty claims unless the customer helps with the cost. Other dealers are charging for fluids, and occasionally a portion of labour. Several owners from around the world have said they were charged for half the labor costs in main bearing warranty claims.
QUICK UPDATE JAN 2021: a guy has just had a main bearing failure and the Beta factory advised the following... "The issue we had was an assembly issue from the factory which caused damage to the left side main bearing during assembly. In all the cases, the bearing would break. It was on roughly 10% of our 2 stroke engines". I just thought this was interesting because it indicates the failure rate was higher than the original estimate of 5% provided by Beta USA. It also indicates they have returned to their original cause as an 'assembly problem'. At one point they did change this to being given defective bearings by their supplier.
The less than 5% doesn't sound like a big deal, unless your one of the 5%!
Imo 1 out of 20 does not really sound like a small deal 🤔
@@danielseibert4082: I really want a 300rr, but I think I'll just keep riding my 14 Husaberg FE501 till it's sorted.
@@Trad-Am Where do you live? (Not specifically where you live but like what country) If you ever want to get rid of your 501 I might be intrested in buying it :)
@@DRS-ok4gi: Washington state US. I'd like to keep it since it's the last year, but I really want a 300 2 stroke, so ya never no.It's only got 46.24 hours and 750.8 miles.
@@Trad-Am Sounds like a great bike but I live in Europe... If I were you I'd keep it!
That really great you put in the sound it makes when the bearings are failing . Thanks..
and my thanks to the original guys who posted those sounds and let me reproduce them. 😁
I have a 2004 Yamaha YZ250 two stroke with over 400 hrs all original piston and crank. Used for tight trial riding. Still running great.
Beginner rider here. Just came back from Romanian tour riding the Romaniacs tracks on a 300 2t KTM. Still alive :). I did the tour to know which beginner bike to buy and I was set on the Beta Xtrainer due to its short seat height. After seeing this though I ll be putting my money elsewhere. Why be arsed with possible issues when buying new
yep, this is a serious issue but of course you still have possible issues with KTM... as you will with any brand. the TPI was messing a lot of people around in the first year, as quite a few of KTM's innovations do. but admittedly they usually have a handle on it by the second year.
th-cam.com/video/kxCHcoHEEBA/w-d-xo.html
Many have asked me what the known issues are on 2019 and 2020 Betas. I just rang a Beta mechanic and he said there are three main issues for two strokes. One, the main bearing failures continue but at a lower rate thankfully. Two, the speedos are failing quite a bit. Often they keep resetting, this can be fixed by securing the input wires more firmly. But the speedos have other issues and dealers stock up on these to replace faulty units under warranty. Electrics can be dodgy and sometimes the whole wiring loom is replaced under warranty as it can be difficult to see where the problems are. The four strokes? Mainly electrical issues, the big one is bikes not charging the battery and it keeps running flat. Again, sometimes whole wiring looms are being replaced under warranty. Also there can be lots of niggling issues - read this story about one guy's Beta RR480:
"My Beta 480 was a problem child. Battery went (again) third time out, replaced. Next time out it stopped dead after about an hour, after over a month in the shop the fault was traced to a loose bullet connector in guts of the loom. New harness ordered, weeks rolled by, fixed. A few more rides without issue, then I noticed oil dripping from both the transmission and engine cases. My 'local' dealer had now shut up shop, which meant over an hours drive. That was a biggie. Those leaks were the result, so I was told of a crook batch of gaskets. This required complete disassembly of the motor (cases split) to remedy, plus another month and then some off the road. Beta covered the labor for the job, but not the consumables, so I still copped a $100 bill for that. All this on an engine not even 12 hours old.
In both cases Beta seemed reluctant, at best to make things right, and I got the impression the dealers were trying to get blood from a stone. I dunno, maby the thing will run for another 500 hours without missing a beat, maby not. I can live with boutique brands and limited dealer coverage, but not a company who doge their responsibility to customers, then acts like they're doing you a favor to honor a warranty claim".
As a mechanic myself it does look like an assembly issue with axial loading being be the cause. From the mechanic's opinion, I can't agree with the interference fit being the problem as almost every bike I've worked has a tight fit. Crank installers and pullers must be used to minimise the axial loads on bearings. So I say beta may just have to review their practises.
good to get another opinion, adam. ideally the factory needs to supply more information, there have been a few cases of dealers fixing a main bearing failure under warranty and then it simply happens again.
Wonder if the machined bearing hole in the cases measure deep enough to fit the crank assembly between the 2 halfs. If they weren't deep enough when bolted together the side load would be more then spec.
@@endurotruckererniedesjardins Definitely a possibility and wouldn't be too hard to measure it.
So why doesnt the 4 stroke have this problem? 🤔
@@danielseibert4082 Different motor, also 4 strokes tend to have greater tolerances between the crank and main bearings meaning less chance of axial load on them.
Amazing job man. Well explained.
BEEN FIXED YET? HOW WILL BETA HELP? POSSIBLE CAUSES? HEAD OFFICE STATEMENTS
STILL AN ISSUE IN 2020 AND 2021 MODELS? We've had one report of a 2021 that failed right off the showroom floor but that may have just been a freak occurrence hopefully. In another case, a 2021 model failed at 25 hours. So far we haven't been advised of other cases thankfully. Main bearing failures did continue in 2020 models, as low as 6 hours but at least at a lower rate. 😢 A viewer told me he attended a Beta demo ride day and the 2020 RR250 developed a main bearing noise and was pulled out halfway through the event. Another case was a 2020 RR300 at 10 hours, they replaced the entire engine but the new engine had the faulty bearing sound already. According to Beta riders in Europe it seems to be a lower rate now, they estimate the failure rate has halved compared to 2018 and 2019.
WHAT SUPPORT CAN YOU EXPECT FROM BETA?: Beta head office has now publicly stated they will repair all main bearing failures in or out of warranty up to 90 hours (with the obvious exception of user error e.g. drowned engines, running without oil etc). Beta head office pays five hours labor for repairs, but not for fluids. You might find your dealer charges you for fluids and possibly a portion of labor if it takes longer than five hours - most dealers are paying the difference out of their own pocket though. However, the level of support may change after 90 hours, as the Beta manual recommends replacing the main bearings at this point. This is widely regarded as being for race bikes only, but it does technically give Beta the option of not fixing the bike after this. In most cases, Beta is still repairing bikes but in some cases they are only providing parts, and not paying for labor, or just a percentage. If you disagree with this, you may need to take your case to your Beta distributor, then Beta head office, then finally pursue your case through consumer law.
POSSIBLE CAUSE(S): There were lots of early theories mainly around the oil injection failing or a bad batch of bearings - there was no real evidence of either. Given the lack of detail from the factory, there's a bit of an informal network of mechanics/dealers over the past few years trying to get to the bottom of it all. Their current opinions?
ONE the interference fit is very tight for the left hand main bearing. So warm the engine case in an oven (don't use a blow torch as this may warp the case), put the bearing in a freezer, then it should go in with almost no pressure. It's possible some bearings may have been damaged by being forced in, just heating the cases meant a lot of pressure can be needed to overcome the very tight interference fit.
One Beta mechanic is 'linishing' the crankcase so it's not such a tight fit. He thinks this may be causing some of the repeat failures.
TWO Check that the crank is spinning freely. The very tight interference fit may have created lateral pressure if not assembled in the factory correctly. When being repaired, be sure to tap the crankcase until lateral pressure is relieved on the bearing so the crank spins freely. Unrelieved lateral pressure may cause the bearing to wear prematurely.
THREE When assembling, ensure the left hand engine case is heated evenly in an oven when installing the main bearing. It appears that Beta head office did eventually admit to at least one distributor that the 'assembly problem' was incorrect heating of the engine case which caused warping. I don't know if Beta mechanics would have a way to check this reliably or not. But where a second or third main bearing failure has occurred (despite correct installation as above) then a new engine case could be required. When customers are coming back with their second or third failure, some Beta mechanics are now replacing the crankcase as well in case this warping was the problem.
FOUR In a small number of cases, there has been evidence of rust - even in some bikes with very low hours. This suggests a small number of failures may have been due to faulty seals. Running your bike after washing it should be a good preventative measure.
FIVE You will read below Beta head office changed their mind and said their bearing manufacturer supplied faulty bearings. Their supplier is NTN and it's hard to believe this Japanese company would let faulty bearings through their quality control process. However, if this was the case then it wouldn't explain why main bearing failures are still continuing after so long. At best it might have been a cause in the past but won't explain why 2020 models are still failing.
BETA HEAD OFFICE'S STATEMENT ON THE CAUSE: To date, Beta head office has given two general reasons for the cause. At first Beta said it was an 'assembly problem' but did not provide further details. Months later they changed this to a 'supplier problem' and said they were given incorrect bearings. This was in an interview with Enduro 21. Here is their marketing manager's statement:
Stefano Soldani: “We had a problem with the two-stroke 250 and 300 models, due to an error of one of our suppliers. It was not spread to all of the bikes produced last year but the ones that were assembled with the wrong batch that the supplier sent us were affected. We worked really close with our dealers and distributors and we gave complete support to the customers affected by it. We are not the kind of company that, when something is wrong, turns their face around. We know that the mechanics is not always perfect so it’s very important to give the correct service to the users. It’s under control.”
Read the interview here: enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/4309-your-questions-answered-beta-s-2020-enduro-models
I've checked again and according to one Beta distributor it's back to being 'an assembly problem' as they were heating the engine cases incorrectly, causing them to warp.
CORRECTION: This is my bad. In the vid I stated dealers are only allotted four hours labour time for main bearing warranty claims when it can take twice that time. It is actually five hours - my apologies for the mistake. Also the factory refuses to reimburse dealers for any fluids so they have to pay for engine oil and radiator coolant etc. As a result, some dealers have have refused to do these warranty claims unless the customer helps with the cost. Other dealers are charging for fluids, and occasionally a portion of labour. Several owners from around the world have said they were charged for half the labor costs in main bearing warranty claims.
Hope it gets better with 2021 models cuz my husky was the last piece of shit a fourstroke that drinks 100ml oil on 70km and radiotor explodes shift star breaked 2 times in a row clutch giver failed rear light was melted cuz too hot tire was flat every morning but the rims were in mint condition blinkerrelais failure etc. All under 10000km thats nothing for a bike thats published to be a long distance supermoto or enduro its heavy af and still breaks like a wimpy 100 dollar chinese pocket rocket! Hope they get better too!
I have a 2020 300rr with a failed main bearing after about 10 hours maybe a few more but it was brand new in July 2020. I took a short video of mine to show the dealer.
@@jasonmcpherson05 was it warranty
@@nickysstuntzest Yes. Beta has been really good about it. My dealer has REALLY stepped up as well. The motor was sent back to Beta USA for tear down and repair.
@@jasonmcpherson05 nice i think the beta Dealers are pretty symphatic to me because they said the import depot is in the neigborhood at the state close to mine in Switzerland thats like 30minutes!
I had this same failure on my '02 RM 250.......after 12 years of use and abuse!
Mostly at Vedder and McNutt
Hey just had a complete engine rebuild on my 2019 300rr with 50 hours on engine due to main bearing failure. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada and it’s the first bike my dealer has had this problem with. He was very vague on the phone as to what caused this, believed it was due to crank issues from factory but will talk with him more when I pick up engine next week.
it may take a while for smaller dealers to come across this. as per beta's information, the failure rate was around one in fifty bikes and many dealers won't sell that many bikes within a given year. i hope it's all fixed under warranty, generally beta canada have been quite good with this issue.
Yes crank, cylinder, head, piston etc have all been covered under warranty as well as labour! After watching your videos covering this issue you said some bikes have had multiple bearing failures, I am curious if those bikes had new cranks installed or not? Might point to more of a crank problem if they aren’t changing the crank and having recurring main bearing problems.
So finally got the engine back! Dealer said beta told him the failures are do to cranks shafts being over sized which side loads the bearings.
Here we go. I have the same bike same year and i also live in Nova Scotia Canada. 101 hours on mine went last week, my beta canada wont do a thing for me. He claims he contacted beta and im to far out of warranty.
@@crosstrainingenduro hope your right about this!
Thanks for the update, for me the damage has been done by Beta as a brand, the lack of communication and general feel of uncertainty stopped me from buying a Beta bike this year (actually 2 bikes: 1 enduro and 1 trials) ...
BETA USA: the bearing failure was a production issue...
Beta riders: what issue exactly?
BETA USA: some chinese kids were building engines out in the rain cos the factory was full....
Beta head office only said it was an 'assembly problem' but they did not provide further information. However, an enterprising Beta mechanic eventually found out that what they meant was the engine cases are easily warped if too much heat is applied - so the cases should only be warmed on a hot plate, NOT with a blow torch! The lack of communication from Beta head office has been terrible in this regard. There are multiple cases of owners having their repaired bikes fail yet again, presumably because head office is not fully informing their dealers and mechanics.
@@crosstrainingenduro betas are sensitive to 'assembly problems'? Well thats me totally staying away from the 1 thats for sale here in thailand! Im sticking with my agricultural mechanic grade honda
Doh, didn't see this comment until now. The good news is Beta head office seems to have agreed they'll fix the bikes until they've reached 90 hours (regardless of actual age), after that it's on a case-by-case basis. So if you see a low hours Beta for a good price it might be worth buying....
The big Italian bosses really should say something about this. It just makes them look like they don't really care about the end users/ have low quality control. Just from a marketing point of view it would be best to acknowledge the issue, even if it's 1 in 20.
My 15 has 200hrs on the crank with no issues even after being drowned more then once.
the deafening silence from the factory might have been excusable in their early days if based on inexperience. but beta are a major player so should be acting like the other manufacturers do, by at least issuing technical bulletins to their dealers and saying get them all fixed at our expense... quietly. 😉
@Bob Sacamano Yes. It's a risk analysis followed by a profit forecast. All business is the same... and I wouldn't be surprised if Beta cant actually afford to fix it.
Awesome follow up. I have about 30 hours on my 19 300 and so far, no weird noises. Just did a 32 miles ride today and she sounds normal. I will keep a close eye on it and report if anything weird comes up.
certainly the odds are it will be fine. one of our guys has 350 hours on his 2018 RR300 now and just one top end rebuild so far. i know a guy in canada with 500 hours up and he's just doing his first bottom end rebuild now...
My 2018 300RR has 120 hours without a one issue. Even the oil injection diode was fixed by the time my dealer got it from Beta in late 2017.
A friend picked up a new 2018 XT late in the same year. His bearing failed at 30 hours fixed under its 6 month warranty.
Been a bike wrench for a couple decades. This is caused by not having enough side clearance between the crank and the bearing...ie:cases "squeezed" together during assembly. Either the side clearance needs adjusting or a simple rap to the end of the crank with a brass hammer to seat the main bearings (of course short of using proper crankcase assembly tools/pullers). Cranks might not be trued as well before assembly and the bearing to crankcase fitment could be too tight on one side not allowing the bearing to properly seat. Pingers are the most simplest but most complex engines to set up correctly. This should be no surprise considering the power to weight ratio of them.
I absolutely LOVE my 17’ XTrainer.
Small correction: I heard you say it's the races that break. It's actually the bearing cage (the thing that keeps the balls separated and in their positions) that breaks, not the races. If I had to guess, I would suspect it's faulty riveting/spot welding, as the cages are made from two halves that are joined together after the balls have been equally spaced.
Well, now that I went on with your video, I see they basically said the same thing in the Beta dealer report. ;)
as a mechanical idiot it's all double dutch to me so i just printed what they said and hoped they were talking about the same thing. 😁
I have had nothing to do with these bikes. But it is interesting that they have concluded an assembly error. Unless they are complete DODOS with sizing and assembly tools they must be putting the bearings in with the assembly chutes in line with an element bending the cage. That said NTN are the best of the cheap bearings, I still always use SKF if possible. In industry I have always found them to keep the best tolerance for the basic common bearings. The fix was probably as simple as spinning the bearing before installation?
Great video as usual. I'm rooting for you Beta.
A common crank bearing problem is the crank journal where the bearing is installed, if it is too large in dia it causes the inner part of the bearing to be larger in dia after it is installed. It heats up quicker than the outer part and the tolerance becomes too tight inside the bearing causing failure. When building race bikes we would chuck up the crank in a lathe and take fine emery, usually diamond, and polish the crank down untill u can hand fit the bearings to the crank when the crank is room temp and bearings are heated to around 120°f its called floating the crankshaft. Also, if the crank is not pressed together enough and it is too wide, it will cause too much side load and bearing failure too.
polishing the crank sounds like the linishing mentioned by the beta mechanic in this vid? it would be good to have confirmation from the factory about their solution so riders doing their own rebuilds can ensure the longevity of main bearings.
@@crosstrainingenduro Yes, hand fitting the bearings is the only way to do it, and not the first ones I have seen that were too tight from the factory. Polaris had a huge problem with their 800 2 stroke twins eating the bearings, they were so tight on the crank It would break bearing pullers trying to get the bearings off, they had to be cut off to save the crank. Kawasaki had problems with some of the KX bikes if ridden with anger, they never had a recall or anything but their "Team Green" race manuals (only available to sponsered race teams) showed the hand fitting process along with all porting specs, jetting etc. It would almost double the crank life in the super minis and 125's that were built to the hilt.
Cheers for the update mate, you can only tell us what you know.
I called 6 Beta dealers. Only one dealer (By far the largest dealer of the 6) said they have seen this failure come in the shop. He estimated it was about 3 bikes out of 100 that he's sold. 2 were 2019 and the other was a 2020. They have not seen any other years with the issue.
Back in 2019 Beta USA themselves said it was about a 5% failure rate after looking at all their figures for the entire country... and that was based on arguably the worst period which was 2018 to 2019. You'll get different reports from various dealers (some who undoubtedly will be trying to sweep the issue under the carpet). Some Australian dealers were saying closer to a 20% failure rate, others almost nothing. But that's probably just a normal statistical variation. I still have the occasional owner reporting main bearing failures at low hours on 2022+ models but it's very rare now.
Good info. Thanks for your reply. The reason I took the time to call the dealers was I just got a 2021 Xtrainer and being not too familiar with Beta, I was concerned. 25 hours on it and all is well so far. Hopefully I escape the dreaded screaming bearing. Thanks for your video, the research and time you put into this, especially for new Beta owners.
I'm sure the risks with a 2021 model will be tiny... if real at all. Enjoy!
Nice, fair and informative video👌🏻 man there’d be a few anxious beta riders getting around ‘what’s that noise!’ 😲
Thank you for being on top of the issue!!!!!
KICKSTART ISSUE FOR SOME 2021 MODELS!
Quite a few guys are starting up their new bikes and quickly getting a crunch then the bike locks up. It's a problem Beta is a aware of, and probably a lack of proper heat treatment on the ring gear for the starter. Take it straight to the dealer for a warranty claim, don't attempt to start the bike! Read more in the link below:
facebook.com/groups/BetaXTrainer/permalink/3723863981037854/?comment_id=3724025977688321
So it has nothing to do with Japanese bearings, but with the assembly process. Something that was clear to me at the very beginning.
Any word of this happening on the Beta 200 RRs?? I have a few friends who have just bought new ones.
as per the details in this vid joe, only RR250, RR300 and xtrainer cases so far.
Out today on my beta300 x trainer 2019 rides great handles fantastic climb narly hills.Only issue at the moment rear light flickering.Bearing ok at 10hours now.Touch wood.
Thanks for the update! Don't they know your the Voice of Beta Australia!!! Any word on the new 2020 models yet??
Hmm: assuming the bearing failure can be tested for (remove barrel to feel/hear crank turn???) bikes should be recalled for testing. It is not a good look for Beta if Beta know that there are 5%+ catastrophic failures but basically saying "wait till it happens" and completely stuffs the complete engine ...
Just had main bearing failure at 170hrs on a 2018 250rr. Unfortunately beta and the dealer are not taking care of it under warranty and saying this is normal wear and tear. Their mechanic says main bearings should be replaced every 200hrs anyways. I said maybe but replaced to be safe, not replaced due to failure.
Very unfortunate to hear, Jonny. I was quite concerned when after a lot of pressure the factory eventually agreed to fix faulty bikes, but only up to 90 hours. And after that point they'll look at each case individually and see if they'll help or not. If you haven't been riding the bike aggressively, many agree it would be reasonable to expect a lot more than 200 hours hours before failures... twice that and more is quite common. Did they assume you'd been racing or on the gas a lot judging by the top end?
@@crosstrainingenduro No, they just said with this many hours its considered normal wear... I don't race at all. I like technical terrain and spend a lot of time putting around in the rocks. I am rarely on the pipe. I feel like I baby my motor to be honest. I think its stretch to call 170hrs and have a main bearing failing a normal wear item. I had just done a top end rebuild 30hours ago, but the mechanics said everything looks good and normal except for the main bearing.
That's a real shame, Jonny. Are you in the USA? Generally Beta USA have been going above and beyond with their support from everything I've heard. But in some countries the distributors and/or dealers have been trying to get out of warranty claims even within the 90 hours (or so I've been told). From what you've said, it would be good to see them cover half the costs e.g. assuming 400 hours from a bottom end is reasonable with your style of riding, you were halfway there. You do have a few options, did you want to take it further?
@@crosstrainingenduro I am in the USA, I reached out to Beta USA before I dropped it off at the shop. The shop said they had also talked to Beta after I dropped it off so I did email them to confirm. This was the email I received back from Tim at Beta USA.
"Sorry for the delay. On a bike with this high amount of time, I doubt the issue was from a manufacture defect. The issue we had was an assembly issue from the factory which caused damage to the left side main bearing during assembly. In all the cases, the bearing would break (see pic)
It was on roughly 10% of our 2 stroke engines. Yours could have been caused by normal wear. In all cases, they would fail much sooner with the cage cracking.
Sincerely,
Tim-"
A pity, Jonny. I can see their side of the story. But given it's been a big issue and they have messed some many riders around the past few years it would have been nice if they'd partially helped with repairs as a gesture of goodwill. 170 hours is simply too early for failure if you've looked after the bike and haven't ridden it hard.
I’ve had no issues on my 15’ 300 and have heard of no Betas with this issues at all. There’s a large group of Xtrainers and 250,300 rr’s here. The only time I’ve heard of this issue is with this vid. I’m living on an island too so 2 stroke Betas really aren’t leaving. Guys just sell if getting another bike so it’s probably every 2 stroke Betas sold and brought in to Oahu from 2013 to currently. Lots of Beta 2t here!!!!! Area is like 30 miles by 44 miles .
yep, as the vid clearly pointed out it's not that common. and it's mostly with 2018 and 2019 models so it's very unlikely to happen to earlier models... with the recent models, beta usa estimates less than 5% failure in their experience. various dealers have reported either none or up to 10% with recent two stroke sales. i personally know 15 guys on beta two strokes and only one has had a main bearing failure.
@@crosstrainingenduro: It's not the statistics, it's the anxiety of wondering if you are next when you are 50km from your trailer in the bottom of a ravine
This happened to me on my 2016 TE300..had to rebuild the bottom end. fun stuff
How many moto hours had that husky when it happened? Do you know what was the cause?
The only serious fix is not to buy a Beta ! In the automotive industry, a decent admitted rate of failure is 15ppm which is 15 fail for 1 million assemblies. So when Beta says 5% is acceptable, which is 50000ppm , so 3000times more failure rate than automotive industry, it is just not serious. The real fix should be to re-engineer that poor design, meaning big expenses to build again new foundry molds, redo the testings, and possibly expose the company to customer claims despite racing machine not warranted. While these are excellent enduro machines when in good condition, I would certainly not take the risk to buy one. I'll keep with my Yamaha ( or KTM).
a good point gilles, although i'm sure all motorbike manufacturers apply less stringent standards to their models, especially the off road ones. i think big changes came to the automotive industry spearheaded by ralph nader, and there hasn't really been a corresponding movement in the two wheeled world.
@@crosstrainingenduro as I worked long in the automotive industry, I know japanese and German companies have strong quality controls, while Italian and US have poor QC, French comp being in between. I expect Japanese motorcycles to be the same as Japanese cars, as it is a cultural behavior. While Italy is a culture of arts, German have a culture of discipline. Austrian KTM is just located between Italy and Germany , so guess what, haha !
Don't know if this contributes to the problem but I had a 72 Dodge truck and the transmissions had a bearing problem. The fix was to get rid of the cheap ball bearing and replace with roller bearings. Just a thought I'm not a bearing expert.
I think Ball bearings are better for these engines because they can take up axial forces and create less friction
I have a 18 300rr race . They replaced my upper fork tubes with the 2019 race tubes. No cost to me.
good to hear, andrew. in australia i think they were initially replacing them with forks that were still defective, but eventually managed to access forks with the correct anodizing. i hope the factory reimbursed dealers and distributors...
Sounds like these engines are still in beta *ba dum tiss*
They did have Fletch working for them the last 2 years installing 30-wieght ball bearings with pliers.
Had my Suzuki RM 250 2007 happened twice to me, first one at 20 hours might have been the oil I was using total racing synthetic oil .started using Motul 800 seem to be ok but then sold it.had a yamaha yz 250 gearbox broke always service my bike's often bad luck I suppose
My 2015 rr 300 started to make weird sounds from bottom end at 111hour mark... Next week I will be replacing main bearings and I will give beta one more chance. Hopefully it will all be OK then, but to be honest I don't trust that company anymore. This the only issue I have had with my beta so far, but next year for my next bike I won't go red. I might go Orange. How can a big bike brand like beta mess up? I was really angry when I heard those sounds because I had a big ride planned for upcoming week...
Can the main bearings be replaced without splitting the cases? I don't see how that could be done in 4 hours. I just picked up a 2020 200rr. Awesome bike! hope this is never an issue for me.
edit: just occurred to me: they are probably just pulling the motor and sending it to Beta for the engine work. That would make more sense.
Sorry on the late reply, Kyle. Beta actually pays five hours to the dealer for main bearing warranty claims (and doesn't pay for new engine oil and radiator fluid). It usually takes longer so there have been cases of dealers refusing to do the work, or charging the customer for the difference. If you want to support your dealer/mechanic then taking the engine out of the bike first will make a big difference.
My 2018 model cross trainer is currently at the dealership waiting to be repaired. Bearing failure at around 40 hrs ! Still waiting for parts to arrive what a joke...
Hopefully you should have no problems with the warranty claim, Paul. It took a while but eventually Beta agreed to fix faulty bikes outside of warranty too. I wonder if they'll use the same bearings since they said it was no longer an 'assembly problem' but started blaming the bearing supplier? I've replicated our most recent update below.
UPDATE: This is interesting! Beta eventually responded by saying main bearing failures were due to a fault in the manufacturing process, and various mechanics I spoke with said Beta had incorrect tolerances which confirmed this. But in a recent interview with Enduro 21 they are now blaming an outside supplier for a batch of faulty bearings that affected 2018 and 2019 models! Plus they say they were very proactive with support, when my impression was they were forced to act as the problem became increasingly public. Here is their marketing manager's statement:
Stefano Soldani: “We had a problem with the two-stroke 250 and 300 models, due to an error of one of our suppliers. It was not spread to all of the bikes produced last year but the ones that were assembled with the wrong batch that the supplier sent us were affected. We worked really close with our dealers and distributors and we gave complete support to the customers affected by it. We are not the kind of company that, when something is wrong, turns their face around. We know that the mechanics is not always perfect so it’s very important to give the correct service to the users. It’s under control.”
Love my Beta 300
Problem is at the factory? How does that explain that trainer bike that failed at 10 hours, had the bearings replaced and failed again?
we can't be sure because there are no details coming from the factory, but i included comments from a beta mechanic in this vid that would explain why.
9 hours on my 2019 Xtrainer and the main bearing started squealing Yesterday just like the videos
bummer to hear that dave. i think most dealers and distributors are handling the warranty better now that the issue is well known. let me know if you have any problems.
purchased a xtrainer 3 weeks ago, quit running at less than 3 hrs, electrical issue. dealer response (3 hours from me), bring it and leave it with us and we will look at it. my advice, dont buy euro bikes unless the dealer is close.
Bummer to hear that, William. Did you check the ECU plug before handing it over? Corrosion is happening a lot. 😢 th-cam.com/video/l4YgP7lw3JQ/w-d-xo.html
@@crosstrainingenduro yes, no grease but no corrosion either. going to fix it myself. 2 days time and 2 tanks of fuel will cover a lot of parts. cdi module is the culprit
@@crosstrainingenduro no grease on your connector?🤣
My Beta dealer said Beta seem to have changed from a Japanese made CDI to a no-name type, which probably means made in China. So there's a good chance that's why we might be seeing quite a few CDI issues recently.
@@crosstrainingenduro the dealer i bought mine from said they had never seen a cdi failure
It’ll be interesting to see what the cause of this turns out to be. If it is the inner races breaking, that sounds like someone at the Beta factory improperly installing the bearings.
About 300 bearings were not properly lubed for storage at the bearing factory. They rusted in the boxes while waiting to be installed.
2018 250RR, just started to get whirling sound in bottom end. Will be going to Raceline Ballarat as I’ve heard they are a good Beta dealer. Bike has 75 hours and 1610 km. Let you know how we go.
fingers crossed it's something easier and cheaper to fix, darren. but 2018 was the worst year for main bearings so far. 😥
@@crosstrainingenduro I have contacted Beta and will post the results. Hoping i am being over cautious..
To update on my experience with bearings failing on the crank.
Contacted Beta and was advised by Hamish Evans to take the bike to dealer and they would investigate.
Was originally going to go to Ballarat but after some discussions, ended up at KJ Thomas Whittlesea.
Bike was inspected and found to have an issue with the left crank bearing. The bearing cage had not failed but the rollers were noisy on the inner race. Initial outcome was Beta agreed to offer replace bearings seals gaskets on bottom end and pay labor. We had some further discussions being that now my new bike experience wasn’t that much of an experience and that it would need top end soon anyway. Beta sweetened and offered new bearings, seals, gaskets, crank/rod and piston and rings with myself paying for labor.
I would like to thank Trevor @ KJ Thomas and Hamish at Beta Australia for their help and honoring repairs under warranty in my case. I feel Beta have done their job and more. My bike is 250RR 2018, 73 Hrs @1620km of easy riding.
Sad to see the factory beta round the bush. People respect truth and leadership in times of crisis. Time to fire the lawyers who concocted the doublespeak and replace them with production engineers. I enjoy riding Betas and want the brand to succeed, but this reads like a chapter from FIAT history.
I've been happy with Beta USA. They sent me parts to replace mine even though it was out of warranty. Beta corporate should step up and own the problem though. By not doing so, they'll only alienate people from the brand. They do have some quality control issues, but the bikes handling and torque curve just make me want to keep it. :) I also think most industries pay the dealers a lot less for warranty work. I know the auto industry does. Not that it's right.
right with you on that one, david. overall these are great bikes that deserve to do well into the future, but they need to get things right in the factory and keep working out those known issues. it's a small thing but i just found out the 2020 models will FINALLY get rid of the pointy sidestand after years of complaints. why did they take so long? especially when they fixed it in 2013 but then for some reason when back to the point one?
The kickstand really is horrible.. lol. I'm gonna have to replace mine with a new one.
@@crosstrainingenduro When the bearing fails deep in the woods, the sidestand can be removed and used to spear game in order to survive the hike out. Loved my XT; love my 200RR.
@@jhaifley sadly you won't be able to do that with 2020 models, jesse... they are putting a proper base on the sidestand. 😢
I just purchased a 2019 300 rr race
On Vancouver Island
hopefully no issues!!!
Thanks for the info!
mon plaisir monsieur cabot. how is life in quebec? 😊
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS life is good! The season has finally begun. Last week we even rode on snow!
Crazy winter!
FYI my 250rr has 150hrs and runs great. Did not repair anything yet.
5% or not thats enough to put me off ,especially with it being out of warranty at 70 hours :O seems dodgy
Ktm has much more failures and a shorter warranty😂and every dumbass has one!
Today was my turn. 2019 95h RR250. Left bearing.. Any bearings recomended instead of OEM?
If you read all the pinned first comment you'll see it's very unlikely to be the bearings at fault. You are only just past Beta's limit for full warranty, if you haven't been racing or pushing the bike hard I'd be aiming for that full warranty claim. Let me know how you go.
@@crosstrainingenduro I removed oil pump and have not serviced the bike at a Beta dealer so guess i will have to fix it my self. Even if Beta “Sweden” would help me with 5h labour it would probably take forever, need it running now :). But thanks for the info. I will order the beta bearings and sealings.
I'd be going free parts at least.
@@crosstrainingenduro Beta Sweden did’t assist with free parts or anything. Either way I was quiet lucky, I opened the engine and the cage of the bearing was broken on one part and loose part have got stuck in the bearing. Nothing else damaged except the bearing.
@@crosstrainingenduro Hello how would one go abouts a full warranty claim. last week mine went, 19 300rr, left main bearing. 101hrs. My beta Canada wont do a thing for me!
Thanks in advance!
I only know two people who own beta's, and both those bikes have the issue, That seems like a 200% failure rate ;)
strange how random it can be... i had another guy say he knows heaps of beta riders and this video is the first he's ever heard about it so he's doubting it's true, even though the factory has admitted it's a known issue.
I am guessing somebody was sloppy with the press and applied force to the center of the bearing.
Yep!!
That is the general opinion of mechanics I've spoken with, including Beta mechanics. It's interesting to see though that eventually Beta head office blamed their bearing supplier, the well known NTN brand from Japan. See the update in the first comment.
I'm about to pull the trigger to MY2022 RR250. Will this problem still happen in 2022 model?
See our update in the pinned first comment.
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks a lot!
Won’t be buying a 2020 300
Is this just the Two strokes? Or 4 strokes too??
As per the video heading
Does anyone really want to put up with this nightmare. I don't think so.
it isn't good, that's for sure. but if you scratch the surface you will find nasty scenarios with other brands. e.g. our KTM recalls vid looked at recalls for engine cases cracking, connecting rods failing, inner fork tubes cracking, fire danger from fuel hoses, throttles locking open, front forks seizing, brake failures, spokes breaking.
th-cam.com/video/kxCHcoHEEBA/w-d-xo.html
@@crosstrainingenduro I believe all these issues need to come into the light and depending on how a company steps up to take care of their customers will result in their viability as a contenter in the free market. i do appreciate your position on this matter and highly respect your honest and fair reporting.
I have a KTM Freeride 250R and have had to put up with both brakes failing and take time to reroute the gas tank vent line.
Has anyone had any problem with the 2020 models any model??????????????
not that we've heard, which is great news
Dam i got a new 2019 Beta x trainer 5weeks ago only done 6hrs hope it will be ok fingers crossed may not of got one if i new this.
while the factory says it has resolved the issue, unfortunately they did not provide VIN numbers or any details on when it fixed during the 2019 production run. the good news though is it should be no problem getting any problems fixed under warranty, and hopefully for some time outside of the six month warranty too given it's a known issue.
How does the torque characteristics compare to the ktm 300exc, sherco 300se factory & 300 husky?
they are all pretty good nowadays
Why do bearing makers have 3 letter acronyms?
Ever heard of..... F A G bearings? That one gave us a chuckle
Timken?
who is the rider at the start of the video?
Tim Coleman
so far a 2018 beta 200rr has held up even after being drowned 55hrs
its unfortunate for those riders that have had issues, but this is also just part of living in a mass manufactured world
Do you know if any of the bikes this happened to are the racing model... Or just standard rr,s
both. as mentioned it has nothing to do with the oil injection.
Yes thanks for reply.... I know they say nothing to do with oi... But would also be good to know the numbers between the two as odd some go at very low hrs and some 80hrs.
I would only buy KTM/HSKY for these issue alone, great bikes and reliable
really? but what about all of KTM's issues? th-cam.com/video/kxCHcoHEEBA/w-d-xo.html
KTM reliable ? hahahaha
Hi Does someone know if I see metallic shaving when I change oil in my 18 rr is a hint before the main bearing is going to go?
Thanks
I would check with a mechanic on that one... unless there's a mechanic willing to make a statement online without seeing pics of the shavings in the oil.
Incorrect Case machining (preload on bearing insertion) The case tolerance is incorrect - Fact.
In that list, no racing models were listed, Racing model don’t use oil injection! so did you get data on racing models to compare to RR and XTrainer models, if bearing failed again in cases where dealers serviced the warranty then the factory installation issue is moot u less they use the same tooling or process, or more likely bearing! so bearing and oil injection seem most likely deduction, since these are 2 separate installations! It is very disappointing as a fan of Beta to see how this is handled (poorly) again dealers have it tough enough without having to cover for a brand, no brand today can afford to treat its market like this, esp for the cost of said bikes today and the small margins in the industry, GasGas is in trouble currently, Alta folded costs are getting to high and quality should not be compromised at a premium price.
Just disappointing a brand on the rise and in a strong position on the competition world stage and growing consumer market share responds like this and let it happen to begin with.
Really like to know if racing models (non oil injected) were affected as new 2020 bike choice may be affected by this handling, all four brands were on my list but the Racing ver 250 was top of that, now Sherco Fact, KTM 6d and Husky back in contention, I want faith in my dealer and brand, fixed issue is not enough, Im a loyal brand owner, so that relationship is important to me, mostly Yamaha and KTMs in recent years of 35 years of riding racing. I really wanted to try a Beta, now Im on the fence. 🙁
quite a few racing models involved, oil injection has clearly been ruled out as a primary cause. many of us still love our italian beasts and are really hoping the factory learns from this, tightens up on all the quality control issues AND responds more appropriately in future.
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS Cheers, it is a hard one, just trying to eliminate possibilities, problems with allot of varying info and finding eliminating fact from fiction, to make informed decision, user from user as we know there are many variables, regardless of brand, just look at TPI, much is fiction fear & some fact and sometimes a combo which makes diagnosing harder. Worse when people throw money at said issue rather than diagnosing, I have seen this in many generational changes of bikes.
So if the 5% failure issue is fact, (Beta stats) or reported fact, then you’d think maybe the bearings maybe were Moody Monday manufactured possibly, or did the workers on Monday not use some assembly lube, possibly! since some cases reported rust in low mileage condition, as fuel and oil gets to the lower end, fuel rust or corrosion would take time, more like 70hrs plus, a faulty press on the production line wouldn’t line up with re occurring failures after dealer mechanic replacement which you’d hope, would use a better quality bearing replacement (aftermarket) and or use assembly lube. measure check tolerances. Only other thing I can see is possibly a issue with oil getting to the bottom end, but that would surely affect all units not just 5-10%. or even environment the engines sit in before shipping, how long are they sitting dry maybe. The problem for me is not that Beta had a problem, all brands do, especially more so today with outsourcing of many parts and cost budgets, QC is lowered, look at car technology, highest level of tech ever worst QC ever, recalls have become common place and costing manufacturers 100 of millions, Toyota / Dodge / Nissan, come to mind in recent times.
I still am a Beta fan, haven’t written them off by any means, its just a worrying response to said problem, maybe a cultural misunderstanding, they don’t really often appreciate that the American market is very different in attitude to the European market as is the Aussie and NZ market in our expectations, also the fact we are at the other end of the world reliability and more importantly reliability and relationship with the dealer and support is much different and critical often in our choice. So hopefully they get it resolved, I still gutted they dropped the Ano red on the forks of the racing models, (due to issues in 18, purely a cost saving issue, no probs 17/16/15) We need all 4 Euro brands to be strong especially now with coming emissions that will cause more problems. cheers for the reply great work, love your channel. 🤙
My 2019 xtrainer is toast at 10 hours. I sure wish they’d just give me a 2020!
bummer to hear, joel. 🤔 if you read the first comment it looks as though beta head office have changed their story from an assembly problem in the factory to it now being the bearing manufacturer's fault. we think it's still the first reason... see if the workshop is going to linish the crank to ensure an easier fit as per the video.
@@crosstrainingenduro The NTN 6206 C3 bearings are used in other bike brands as well no issues, unless beta purchased fakes. Wrt factory assembly issues how do they screw up the bearing installation?
If one reads the factory service manual apparently all you have to do is heat the left inner race and the cases will go together. Secondly why does the right side go in easily with no heat applied and the left not... A micrometre reading for the crank left & right sides would be interesting.
I also don't think everybody is aware of the issue, there's a youtuber that did a motor rebuild twice before figuring out it's due to main bearings.
Hey Barry you can add another to the list, im from Sydney and own a 2023 300 rr with inly 20hrs on it. I took the stator cover off and found transmission oil in that side of the motor also petrol. Im in talks with my dealer about getting the crank seals replaced but have to wait for an answer when the boss comes back from holidays as my bike is 1 month passed its warranty.
So it's just the seals, not the actual bearings? Hopefully they'll fix it if you aren't at fault in any way. You are probably aware that consumer law usually provides protection beyond any specified warranty. In the early days of the main bearing fiasco I did hear reports of the Aussie distributor only offering free replacement parts but no labour.... Let me know how it goes. Probably best messaging me on the Facebook page.
@@crosstrainingenduro no problem, will do. I think it's just the seals I don't want to remove the fly wheel to give the crank a tug I'll leave that up to the dealer, but yeah no weird noises from the bottom end.
Hmmm, just found this after asking the beta question in another video. Might stay with ktm for now…or maybe try a yz250x.
If you are buying brand new they seem to have the issue fixed. It was a serious issue in 2018 and 2019, but at least reports were rare in the 2020 and 2021 models.
@@crosstrainingenduro it would be new, here in the US there is a good deal on leftover sherco 300’s. Curious, do you or any of your crew have any experience with the yz250x, mainly in tight slow stuff?
Never ridden one, Mark. You can't register it so it can't be ridden in the public forests in most states of Australia. 😢
Beta testers...
hence the brand name obviously.
I've got an issue. I'm buying a 2020 200RR, but they're not out yet...
I have a 2020 Xtrainer with 75 hours lost the right side crank bearing and beta covered the entire repair $1795 and I didn’t pay a cent. Ya for a company that stands behind their products.
Good to hear, Bill. The support in the USA has been great... it hasn't been good in some other countries though.
A friends 2020 300RR main bearing failed at 25 hours on a Trailride, I towed it out with a KDX with about a gazillion hours on, Beta shop from here (NZ) were at the event and took it away and it was returned 4 days later, they said they fitted a different type of bearing
Has anyone ever had a main bearing failure on a 4 stroke Beta?? Or I guess more specific.. is it very common?
Not that we've ever heard. Or it would have been mentioned in the main bearing vids.
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks. I tore down my motor this week on my 390 4T and I didn’t notice anything loose.
Yeah, no surprises. Years later and Beta still say my forks never had a problem... And how sad this info comes via an independent youtube channel!
Beta is such an unprofessional company that it's gob smacking. This isn't a mechanics issue; it's an engineering issue!! Every bearing has a story that can be told under magnification... guess work by dealers is totally unnecessary.
But unfortunately such things come down to risk/profit decisions made in boardrooms and most vehicle companies, not just beta stopped worring about customer service years ago.
from what i've heard australian distributor and dealer network have been replacing the forks with crap anodizing under warranty.... has that not been the case in other countries? at least suspension can be partly blamed on the external source but faulty parts should always be fixed under warranty, and probably even outside of warranty. perhaps some dealers don't know about the issue though... even now i think some dealers don't know about this main bearing problem due to lack of communication from the factory. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro TBH I even buy ktm sprokets for the Beta now... so I clearly missed the memo!!!
do you modify the rear sprocket? the BHC is out by about 1mm so you'd need to file away at the bolt holes to make it fit. i hear the front is a direct swap though.
@@crosstrainingenduro You are a true guru. That is all correct. I actually slotted the hub holes (not sprocket) on the mill so it was square. Cheers
hi everyone I posted a comment relating to a faulty crankshaft and piston bearing problem on a 300 X-TRAINER from March 2019 at 60:00. I therefore inform you of the following:
I dropped off the bike in December 2020 at the BETA dealer in FRANCE. a request for support has been requested from BETA INTERNATIONNAL.
The piston and the crankshaft bearings have been taken care of. (Approx. 700 € invoice taken over).
at the end I sold the motorcycle. BETA will benefit from reviewing the design of this bike, notably the lubrication system, which does not seem to be well enough studied. These recurring problems do not build confidence.
hi all of you, ride off road motorcycles as often as possible.
make videos and watch my channel.
See you soon
I'm glad to hear they offered full support as promised for bikes with less than 90 hours.
Good thing I can't really afford a new Italian princess :P guess I just have to stick to the cheap late model Yamahas.
many yamaha blew up engine recently too.
Beta USA stands behind their bikes. For that I would buy a Beta.
I just replaced my fuel line yesterday on my 2016 250exc I was on a ride out in the middle of nowhere when I noticed my fuel line leaking I got back to the car with 1/4 tank after only a small ride it turned out the fuel line had turned into play dough I could smoosh it into two pieces in my hands I have a video of this.
Ethanol?
I guess it's not fun to be in the 5%...
Too bad sometimes the web make small issues as huge ones.
Overall, Beta making great bikes, I don't own one but i had the chance to ride RR300.
it's an interesting point - is a 5% failure rate on late model beta two strokes a small issue or not? i did think long and hard about making this vid (and the earlier one), and actually checked with various beta dealers before releasing it. the main problem was that beta head office never let distributors or dealers know this was a problem, and owners from around the world were telling me that consequently dealers did not want to honor warrranty claims, thinking the rider had caused the problem. i believe this could have remained a 'small' issue if the factory had been proactive, informed all the dealers, and insisted on paying for all repairs, whether in warranty or not. unfortunately that was not the case.
@@crosstrainingenduro I don't think BETA as a manufacturer knew about this issue and still kept selling the defect models.
I guess BETA decided to check this fault only after they noticed repeated reports about the same issue. - Same as happened to KTM on the early TPI models.
- Another example - Toyota RAV4 2019 inside the cabin noise was noticeable only by the costumers, and only now, 6 months after they released the car they looking for a fix to make a recall...
Any manufacturer can have a problem in the production line, and sometimes we as costumers find small issues that was hiding from the testers.
If you ask me, it took some time for BETA to hear about this issue because not all of the dealers are reporting about all of the issues to the manufacturer. - and some of them even try to avoid warranty when they can.
At the bottom line, love your videos keep on with the great work.
Was contemplating purchasing a 2021 300RR. After seeing this video, NO THANKS.
Interesting... the problem has largely disappeared in 2021. That leaves KTM with their TPI models seizing at what could be a similar rate to Beta's main bearing failures. Or Sherco's problems with stators, ECUs, and bolts stripping. th-cam.com/video/sExzuIUgFb0/w-d-xo.html
Would like an xtrainer but not if reliable
A bit late to the party here, but wondering if anyone was keen to share any info about the rr200 relating to this issue? cheers in advance!
as per the info we collected, we couldn't find any cases of the RR200 having issues, alex.
Put me off buying the Xtrainer. Aside from it failing and leaving me stranded at the back of beyond I fear the resale is also impacted. Beta have stuffed this up by not getting on the front foot and and minimising it eg 'only 1 in 20 of you will have this issue.
hopefully there will be zero cases with the 2020 models if it's really fixed, grant. and i would hope that 100% support for everyone experiencing this (in or out of warranty) would eventually see resale value not affected.
@@crosstrainingenduro Hopefully but given this was not a 'bad batch' but ran over several years it will be a wait and see. The problem is in Australia manufacturers tend to ignore us. There are a number of car recalls that occurred in Europe and North America but were ignored in Australia and NZ. We are such a small market they don't give a toss. I suspect at a point Beta will say 'thats it, no more repairs'. Its not that I think it doesn't happen other brands, it's just a major repair that can leave stranded in the middle of nowhere. I'm not dissing Beta, happens to all manufacturers, there is an engine in the Nissan Patrol known as the 'grenade' because it blows up.
My sons 2019 to 250 RR had main bearingAt 104 hours ruined the jug and crank and piston beta USA is backing it up labor and parts
Ouch. I'm glad it happened in the USA at least, they are providing complete support usually. In some countries they might only give you parts after 90 hours.
Uhmmm looks like beta is off the list of new bikes
Yea boyy im finland boy
I Farted.
i've got over 300 hours on my ktm250sx bottom end now
i hear that 300 500 hours can be pretty normal for everyday riders. ben in our group now has 350 hours on his beta RR300. paul rodden in canada has 520 hours on his beta xtrainer and still the original bottom end.
5 % thats way too much !! Beta...never again !
Don't buy a KTM then!
Good public service.
Playing coy and being slow to act about issues like this will see a spike in Sherco sales going forward I think.
BETA need to remover the Negroni machine from the canteen. Those Italians are notoriously _bon viveurs_ ..
I have a '18 390 rr/s and maintain that too much lunch wine was consumed before the electrical connections on my bike were installed...1 in 20 bikes have bearing failures, 20 working days in a month, were these lemons all made the on the same day of the month? Perhaps the last day?
@@xterrential 488rr. Back to the shop after second ride. Eventually had the entire loom replaced. Now its headed back again for other 'known issues'. *SALUTI!*
My 2019 beta 300rr main bearing just went (left) lots of damage. 101 hours. beta canada wont do anything to help me.
Beta's head office agreed to fix them up to 90 hours. The Aussie and USA distributors are saying they'll offer support on a case-by-case basis after that... to date this means they might provide parts, or partially cover costs etc. What reasons did Beta Canada provide for not helping at all?
@@crosstrainingenduro thank you for the reply. my bike shut right off on me was out and about, had to call to get picked up. so i tear into the motor, seems to be a left main bearing failure at 101 hours. i send pictures and information about the bike to my dealer in alberta RPM cycle. He then contacts beta directly. They reply with the bike is going on 3 years old its to far out of the warranty period. nothing eles to help, i found the customer service quite poor to be honest. And so say i have this bike rebuilt to spec and 71 hours or 91 hours from now the same thing happens? They wont cover it? what just make sure to change your main bearings once a season to avoid a massive mess?! seems like i chose the wrong bike when buying new. The power curve and handling of the bike is amazing let me tell you that. but main bearings every 100 or even 200 hours is ridiculous, maybe top ends but not bottems....
And now i am stuck with a massive bill on my hands.
If you weren't racing and didn't drown the bike, I would suggest pushing hard for some level of support at least. Can you email me on info@crosstrainingenduro.com to discuss?
@@crosstrainingenduro yessir thank you sir, no the bike was never drowned always taken very well care of, i mean i do ride hard, but not 100 hour bottom end hard ... lol.
Update after 2 days for waiting on a reply i got one. Saying from my dealer that he is forwarding my photos to beta canada. we will play it by ear.
Cool, keep us posted. Best by email, very easy to lose track of TH-cam comments.