How To Balance Your Telescope (Properly & Easy)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Looks it’s pretty simple. But if you f*#k it up - nothing works! So here’s a simple demo about balancing your telescope. You’ll only need to watch it once.
Dylan's Telescopes, Cameras & Equipment
----
Celestron RASA 8" Telescope
amzn.to/3G4nlbP
Celestron NexYZ 3-Axis Smartphone Adapter
amzn.to/3g20wLd
Skywatcher EQ8Rh Pro Mount
Usa : bit.ly/2NMD1em
Aus : bit.ly/3dxdRv1
Celestron CGX Mount
bit.ly/2H1LVl6
Celestron RASA F2 11" Telescope
amzn.to/3ABsVBz
Celestron 11" Edge HD
bit.ly/3eaxJRl
QHY268M Mono CMOS Camera
bit.ly/3dOFgbx
Lunt40mm Solar Telescope
bit.ly/39ggrTW
Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer 2i Pro Pack
amzn.to/3ABLAwQ
ZWO ASI 174MM (Planetary / Solar Camera)
amzn.to/3rXqJAj
ZWO ASI 120MM. (Guide Camera)
bit.ly/31bwspA
ZWO ASI 1600MM (Deep Space Camera)
amzn.to/3rXqJAj
Celestron 0.7x reducer for 11" Edge HD
bit.ly/379s0LI
Celestron 0.7x reducer for 9.25” Edge HD
bit.ly/351togR
Celestron 9.25” Edge HD
bit.ly/379Nqsj
Canon 6D mkII DSLR
amzn.to/2CbiVER
Tokina 16-28mm Lens
amzn.to/3fdFJCo
Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III USM Ultra Wide Angle Zoom Full Frame
amzn.to/3G9kjmP
Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens
amzn.to/3H9yPfA
Dylan’s links
----
PATREON : / dylanodonnell
WEB : deography.com
FACEBOOK : / dylanodonnell
TWITTER : / erfmufn
INSTAGRAM : / dylan_odonnell_
Bass Beat thing by Dylan O’Donnell
Intro & Outro Music - "Moving the Ocean (Aerologic Edit)" by Blastculture.
folks iam here to say. yes you can buy your way out of balancing your setup... you call dylan up and give him a few beers done deal. hahahhahaha
I like to use 2 heavy counterweights close to the ra axis and a light counterweight to fine tune it. You want to use as much counterweight as possible for a reason. You will always have wind and vibrations coming from the ground. More mass gives you more inertia for wind to overcome. If they would have a 50 lb tungsten bar in the center of the RA axis it would be even better. It would add a lot of inertia.
Excellent tip!
@@DylanODonnell Would there be a tradeoff between increasing the mass and having a higher moment of inertia? I don't know physics astronomy and powerlifting are hobbies of mine. You can experience it for yourself. If you pick up a 150 lb dumbell in each hand it is way easier to walk with them than 315 lbs of barbell and disks. Its the same mass but the barbell has a higher moment of inertia. It seems like a lower moment of inertia would make a faster slewing mount.
@@DylanODonnell I reckon there is a differential equation someone can use to find the optimal mass and optimal distance from the RA axis to balance the optical tube. I only have a very basic understanding of differential equations.
If you balance DEC first, that's correct. But, if you don't balance DEC with the counterweight horizontal (done on both sides), the physics of this is such that you may not have good balance in all areas of sky. So it's good to complement the technique you show by balancing DEC in two places - CW horizontal East and CW horizontal west.
This might be the single most helpful video I have ever watched. Thank you.
Hey thanks mate :)
I needed that tip at the end thank you! Hahha but for real though I'm wondering about situations with multiple counterweights both large and small I've noticed people have a gap in between them and I'm guessing this is in some way advantageous? Does it just make it easier to fine-tune using the top smaller weight? Or does it have something more to do with inertia and the weights being proportionally spread out in some strategy makes for smoother rotation or easier work for the drive?
I note that you balance in Dec with the counterweights at their low position and the scope horizontal. Is this essential and would the balance be different with the RA axis horizontal? Likewise you balance in RA with the Dec axis pointing north. A comment suggest you need to also balance in Dec with the scope pointing to the NCP.
Dec should be done horizontal, RA needs to be on each side of mount as well.
You should have some stop collars on your shaft as well as lock screws.
Loading the drive train should not be needed if the worm is meshed correctly.
If you are getting movement the on the worm drive there may be too much end float?
I would be interest is seeing the manufacturers engineering specs?
Hi Baines .. that's what I've been shown also, but it's slightly easier this way and works just as well imho! My balance is never an issue and the feedback I have from others is that it's working better for them too!
Hi Dylan. I like this technique but I have a question regarding your demonstration for DEC balance. In this video you confirmed DEC balance by demonstrating that the OTA, when horizontal, was neither top nor tail heavy - it remained horizontal. Other videos demonstrating DEC balance have shown that the OTA remains stationary when horizontal but also when not just horizontal. Are you saying, implicitly, that it's only necessary to check DEC balance when the OTA is horizontal? Thanks
You mention Polar alignment as an issue. Could you maybe do a video on this in the southern hemisphere? I am really struggling with it!
Great suggestion.. it's been something I've been meaning to do!
That would be awesome :)
I’ve got a star adventurer, and it’s an absolute nightmare to polar align! I can’t even see the stars through the polar scope :(
I've realized that the CGX has so much internal stiction that proper balance is difficult to find. In RA it is not really an issue because as you indicated, you actually want it out of balance. But in DEC, there's actually about a half inch (maybe 15mm or so) of dovetail positions that will seemingly yield a proper balance. And this is with my heavy RASA - I imagine there is even more on a lighter OTA. Do you account for this somehow?
I can't say I have that issue.. or if I do I'm blissfully unaware! I do this same process with the RASA and it seems to work fine.. though the DEC balance is pretty important for the RASA being so front heavy with all the camera gear at the front, the wide field of view is very forgiving.
you made this video about one year late. I died trying to balance my scope around august 2017
Hahaha you win at the internet lol
If the counterweight bar was 50.4mm you could buy disks that are ipf legal and you know exactly what you got.
East Heavy?
Hi Would really appreciate your advice!! I've bought Celestron 800 EDGE HD with Celestron 0,7 focal reducer. I shoot from very light polluted skies and rely on Optolong L-Pro 2'' filter. I use EOS Canon 60D. But how on earth do I connect the 2'' filter? Any ideas? Which adapters should I use. I'm totally lost, sorry
Thank you very much for the balancing video. It will give me confidence when I get my 9.25 AVX Celestron 👍
1:05 look at all those scopes
Great stuff.
Cheers!
I don't mind saying "I'm a beginner", and the hurtles seem to be endless. Your video is very fortuitous; balancing has been less problematic than other issues. It's things like polar alignment and focus that are driving me to additional drinking. In my backyard, Polaris is in between tree limbs (neighbor's): Polemaster has problems because the group of stars it wants to align with are not all visible due to leaves, limbs, and constant motion from wind, moving over 40 degrees or so hides some of the alignment stars; SharpCap has problems because of lack of enough stars in the tree window. On a positive note, acquired first astrophoto last night of Saturn, using a video guide camera and SharpCap, Registax, and PhotoShop. Focus was just crazy by hand, but the milestone is very gratifying, and by reviewing your videos over and over, there is great hope to move up from "beginner" to "bigger spender". Clear skies!
Check out my video on all-star polar align if you have a celestron mount... it's as good as polemaster with much less effort :) Don't worry .. I still consider myself a beginner .. it never ends!
John Giromini have you tried ps align pro in an App Store
Thanks for the response, cockneyb2k. Are you referring to apps like Polar Scope Align Pro? I have a Celestron CGX which doesn't have a builtin polarscope. That's why I am attempting to use Polemaster.
g`day dylan thanks for the video as i have said before hints and tips are always good for everyone... the tip of dec before RA ill try it thanks... i learn something every time with your videos .... talking of balancing acts.. can you do a video on hyperstar V`s focal reducer 0.7 pro`s and cons on both systems of capture i know its a big subject and i know a few basics... faster capture and wider field of views.. as the 0.7 reducer for the edge HD is around the price of hyperstar (within a few hundred of each other) i would like to know your thoughts on each system of capture or maybe a video on focusing a hyperstar system how you do it and if you need motorised focuser and any other focusing programs or kit
i am researching these subjects at the moment and find it interesting ..... sorry its probably too much to ask.... i know how much work you put in to these videos.... its food for thought at the least .... maybe one day
cheers
james D
A review of the new Celestron 9.25" reducer is on the cards (I'm just waiting to get one) and I can offer my thoughts on it vs Hyperstar but I already have a 1 hour presentation about hyperstar on the astro imaging channel youtube if you're interested :)
Dylan O'Donnell thanks man ill try to track it down (i might of seen it i watch that channel as well ) and i will be very interested in the reducer video also ... cheers mate
Hi Dylan. Thanks for the video. I have a balancing problem. When I try to balance declination sideways, I can get to be perfect but as soon as the OTA is not sideways anymore it starts to fall to one side, although as I said it was already balanced sideways. I cannot find a solution for how to balance my OTA in all declinations. (RA is fixed during the whole process to be clear)
Maybe sure the load is evenly distributed on your OTA as much as possible (nothing hanging off the side) and you balance DEC first. Start with the counterweight(s) at the end and slowly move inwards, and keep the counterweights evenly spaced.
Kamyar I had similar problem. I added an additional tube ring to my Newtonian as a locking ring so I can rotate the tube in the rings to achieve balance in all three axis. It works well. Different cameras etc will need different amounts of rotation to get it balanced in that RA horizontal and Scope pointing up position.
Don't forget to balance the 3rd axis - DEC with OTA pointing forward...things filter wheels and focuses sticking out sideways can throw things off. The third axis is also important for side by side scope setups.
Yup, good tip. On my mak-newt the focuser and camera really mess with the balance unless they the scope is rotated so they are positioned at the top/center
Hi. Thanks for the vid. Very informative. But what happens after the meridian flip? Would you be now heavier on the telescope side?
Aware this is 11 months old but since no one has responded I will.
If your scope is belt-driven or neutral-balanced belt-modded, you dont balance east heavy. If you are gear driven then you might need to do so. After meridian flip you will need to move the counterweight a bit to result in a east heavy. You can do so by marking off with a marker where would one of your two counterweights sits when it is pier west, and pier east.
Great video Dylan! love it when people explain those little things that some find too basic to bother explaining but are SOOO IMPORTANT
Clear Skies!
Hey thanks! I worry the recent few videos are "too simple" but I'm glad they will help some people at some point.
honestly, nothing in this field is too simple : )
@@DylanODonnell you're darn right about that, you have no idea what sort of frustration a beginner like me has to go through to get the scope balanced and fully set up... this video helped me a ton!
The straight faced ending is always good for a laugh for me. Good instruction on big tube balancing too.
Hehe thanks Jim!
So I can balance the RA and Dec, but the 3rd axis I find is my issue. I have a MAK127 and the dovetail bar is off centered. Because of that, the left side of the telescope is always pulling down. no matter how balanced the scope is in declination or RA. Any thoughts on that?
Hey Dylan , what camera do you use for guiding and are you facing a problems on it and what do you prefer for a decent one , thanks , you’re my fav 🌹🌺🌹 I am a beginner astrophotographer and I made this channel to share my journey hope you like it and please subscribe ❤️🌹🌹
Oh I see your on the main page of ASCOM with your “what is ascom” video 👍
Hey that's Rad!
@
Dylan O'Donnell
thank you for the video. What is the proportion between the counterweight and the weight of the scope/camera etc. For example if you have a total weight of telescope/camera/guide scope of 10 Kgs do you have to have a 10 Kgs (5Kgs) counterweight?
When working with the dec, I've had it balance out nicely, but when I go to move it passed the neutral to the other side, it wants to swing back. It's not from cables or anything and I made sure the clutch was completely open so it wasn't the motors or nothing. I was left confused. Any idea why it would do that on one side but appear balanced on the other?
Hi Dylan you have added a guide scope and dovetail to the main 11" scope on top where the finder normally is, what is the code or name of that dovetail as i have a mounting bar on a CELESTRON C6-A-XLT (CG-5) SCHMIDT CASSEGRAIN OTA as they have and want to mount this on the 11" ? thanks
I will say this. They use bastard size bars so they can charge an arm and leg. They did it on purpose. I measured a barbell that is IPF legal it is exactly 1.968". 1.968" should be the standard they shouldn't sell 1.875 and 1.500. Elikio brand disks are even closer to the advertised weight than telescope counterweights and cost 1/3 as much. They also sell bastard weight counterweights they should sell standard ones like 1.5lb, 2.5lb, 5lb, 25lb etc.
They make a killing off counterweights. Someone measured every single barbell and disk and said hehehe I am going to make them buy special stuff. There is absolutely no reason for that. The counterweight bar should be 1.968" and have grooves cut it in for the clamps used on Olympic barbells. Then you could use generic disks.
I always find that I can balance it for when the scope is sideways in DEC or when the weight bar is horizontal in RA like you do here. But if I put the scope back vertically (closer to the zero position) it won't stay put and will slide out to one side or the other, even though once it's horizontal it'll appear totally balanced. Thoughts?
Does anything here work for azmuth mounts? I got a small azmut telescope yesterday and while I did see saturn and jupiter briefly in a 20mm eyepiece, anything that beyond that was torture to try and find again and focus!! This is in no small part due to the fact that just switching eyepieces would off center the telescope enough for me to loose it.
Just one major question - what size is the OTA? Mine is the 11" and I would be 'very bothered' to release the dec clamps with all that equipment loaded! I use additional balance weights on the front end but I would like to know if it is safe to loosen the dec clamps on an 11"?
We are a teacher of Astronomy lessons in a remote village in Banten Indonesia. We really dream of owning a Celestron C11-A Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope, for the sake of practicing the results of the theory in the school where we teach lessons to our students, but it's all wishful thinking and dreaming because of our inability to buy the telescope
How bad are the computerized Celestron mounts like for the new astrographs I think they are a Schmidt camera? They seem kind of light. When it comes to mounts quality is directly proportional to weight.
I never understood why instead of gears why not use a hydraulic motor with a servo amplifier to drive it. It would eliminate backlash completely.
Talking about stuff falling this guy he looks exactly like me when he was in the navy he operated a nuclear reactor. One day he was off duty and went from one end of the boat to the other singing and dancing about inverse beta decay. Then he dragged 505 lbs to a bench and said hey yall watch this then tried to press it while singing about thermal neutrons and uranium 235. Basically it got stuck at the top and ended up getting dropped on the deck and put a 2" bow in the deck. He had to go see the captain and had to do 8 counts until he threw up.
Do we need to call the mane six to help with the bugbear? 🤔
Seriously though, thank you for the video!
I still say there is an engineer/bodybuilder who measured every disk in creation and came up with a bastard size counterweight so people have to buy special stuff.
There is a tolerance believe it or not on barbells and disks that are ipf and iwf legal. It is usually -0/+20 grams.
Not so easy, if you have CEM from IOptron. This will not going to work.
Shouldn't the lens cap be off? It affects the balance and on that scope the weight of the cap is not trivial.
Have you ever used a Dall-Kirkham? They work really well for double stars and planets.
Once you have it balanced if you have to take it apart to transport it I leave the counterweights on the shaft and just unscrew the whole shaft. Its not that bad it is only 48kg. You just support the weight with one hand and get it lined up with the other and rescrew it.
solution= get an alt-az mount. :)
great, even here i get shamed into practicing more guitar.. ok, ok, i'll do it..
I do know the disks Elikio makes that are legal are closer to their advertised weight than these counterweights.
If you take the dust cap off the telescope you will have even better balance.
3:21 but what if your telescope is a Newtonian Telescope will is still work?
I'm surprised the mount doesn't have a toe saver at the bottom of the weight pole.
I just love the end... .Everything is meaningless and we are all going to die... hahahahahaha so good....
muuuuch easier to balance after hypertuning :)
Thanks Dylan, I’d print the manual for my Celestron AVX, but the way you explain it, it makes more sense and feels easier to understand on how to align and balance the telescope. Thanks so much for sharing!!!😅
Thanks !
Thank you. The directions that came with the scope are crap.
The AVX mount has very stiff movements. This makes getting an accurate feel for balance more difficult. A trick I use to help me with RA balance is a "pencil test". I load out the scope with all the gear I'll be using that night. Then, I place the telescope on a flat surface and resting on its mounting rail. Next, I place a pencil under the plate. By moving the scope back and forth on the pencil, I can easily locate the spot on the rail where the scope tips to the front or back. THAT is the balance point. Mark it. When I place the scope on the mounting saddle, I make sure the balance mark is in the middle of the saddle. That gives me a more accurate positioning than balancing in the RA axis than doing it at the scope.
That's a really good idea. Thanks!
I can't understand RA and Declination movement
Wow been strugglin with this..this helps !
over balancing a bit counterweight side to engage gears is smart ;) will do next time, thanks for the tip
Yeh I never would have thought of it until I was told once!
Once you find those sweet spots mark on the dovetail and on the counterweight bar where to put the weights. Not as necessary when permanently mounted but definitely helps when you transport the scope alot. Doesn't have to be anything fancy; masking or electic tape wrapped on the counterweight bar just above the sweet spot and with a marker on the dovetail (as long as its a different color).
Yep.. good idea!
Should it be re-balanced again if you swap the eyepiece out to replace it with a (heavier) DSLR-camera?
Yes :)
Heya
For the star adventurer mount can I balance the DEC first then only balance RA?
Yes :)
Awesome tutorial Dylan.
Thanks Ray! About time I made a new video I think. Life is taking over.
Celestron says to balance east side heavy. Your video shows only excess on counterweight side. That’s how I’ve been doing it, why would Celestron say east side heavy, which requires readjustment after meridian flip?
Yeh it's confusing isn't it. Can report no problems on either side of meridian with weights-side slightly heavier.
@@DylanODonnell Sweet, thanks for the reply 😉
Excellent sign off.
Just checking, when you say to have the gears meshed in RA , am I supposed to have the counterweight bar pushing up or dropping down slightly?
Yeh pushing down
Dylan O'Donnell awesome. Thanks champ!
Hi i am running into some real bad guiding. I have 22 lbs on my mount but only an 11 lbs counter weight, all the way at the bottom, I have ordered another 7 lbs counter weight. Can you talk about how tracking will change through the night depending on where you are in RA? I did watch your PHD2 video, nice button! Is there more on tracking problems? Thx
If you can, try to mount everything symmetrically. When you have things on the side of the OTA (like a finderscope) it starts getting out of balance on one side of the meridian. I have a small finderscope but the main guide scope is atop of the OTA.
Thank you Mr Aussie Dylan. THAT was almost exactly what this dumb newbie needed. The only way it could have been better is if you had used my (baffling) EQ6-R. The manual does such a poor job on this. I am going to practice today after I watch this video again! When I still get it wrong, I will watch this again!
I still say a longer bar and 50.4mm disks would be better. It is just like weightlifting or wrassling round stock to get in the chuck. You can do an experiment and see for yourself. If you press overhead it is easier to keep your balance with a barbell than with dumbells because the moment of inertia is more.
great vid, simple when you know! I just bought a CGX 1100HD and it comes with minimal instructions. seems they assume you know these things first.
off topic but what guide scope are you using? I might be saying that wrong, mine came with the 20x50 finder though I note everyone uses a bigger extra guide scope too.
sorry in advance, I bought this scope as a big birthday present for my wife, with very little experience, and am now realising how involved it really is!
Thank you for this video sir!! Very helpful and perfectly explained with even small tips from your experience 👍🏼🔭
Anytime!
Excellent! I am new to using a GEM and just got an AVX. This will save me a lot of frustration on my first outing. Thanks!
Dylan, this method will not work if you use the original finder-scope location for your guide-scope and guide camera. I notice you have a large mounting bar for a large guide scope. In the former case you will always have an imbalance unless you add equal amount of weight directly opposite to where the guide camera and guide scope (off-set from centre of the tube).
Your vids have been super helpful! I'll be visiting NSW here in March. First time in the southern hemisphere. I'll only have a smaller setup, but I'm stoked to see the sky down there!
Brilliant :) I’m always banging on about our skies to foreigners ;)
@@DylanODonnell As you should. They are supposed to be absolutely epic. I'll be popping by that dark sky park (Warrumbungle National Park) to camp for a few days and try a bit of astrophotography. Have you ever been out that way? astrophotography.
There's a few good spots out where I'm living as well. Wadi Rum in Jordan is one of my favorite spots in the world. The whole desert I bright red like Mars, and there's not a drop of humidity or light pollution in the air.
Anyhow, thanks for teaching me how to balance properly. Clear night last night and that dropped my error through the goddamned floor. Best tracking I've had to date!
Nice video
And once you get it balanced, mark the positions of the weight and scope with tape or a marker. You can different marks for different payloads. Then you never have to do it again.
Love your optimism 😛
You have beautiful eyes.Any great instructions.
Flattery will get you everywhere. Thank you.
@@DylanODonnell Tee hee hee.
Thanks Dylan. What's your primary tripod angle off the horizontal? 60 Degrees?
Hi Dylan, awesome videos! Question off topic, cant seem to find answer - when I tighten the RA clutch, I can feel some clutch slippage if I apply a little pressure to the RA direction - is that normal? I feel like its slipping more than it did when I purchased the mount (when they first came out). Any advise on clutch slipping? thanks Marty
Even rockets work like weightlifting. Once you get it off the floor and get it moving like if you want to clean it you did most of the work. The first stage gets the rocket off the floor outside and gets it moving. The top stage has better leverage.
Tiny detail... just removed the telescope front lid :P
This was very helpful, as I now realize this mount did not come with enough counterweight, or it's trying to tell me my scope is to heavy....
Have to remember you use the cap. So e for you is opposite side facing the mount.
Excellent..Thank you from a Newbie
What about when you add your cables and cable management, do you rebalance again?
Typically I would balance with all my cables etc connected. (Was only setup for visual today).
well whenever i try balancing my telescope on the mount it wants to go into the horizontal position, and doesnt stay put...
Hi, nicely done!
I noticed your mount's counterweights shaft actually is not connected to the Dec motors.
In my mount (HEQ5Pro) the shaft with the counterweights rotates with the scope in Dec direction.
I wonder if I could use those sideways smaller shafts with counterweights to balance the Dec.
My scope has a plate that doesn't allow much wiggle room to play with forward/back balancing.
And with hefty Canon 5D it's very front heavy.
I'll try to improvise something to check how it works before I drill my shiny counterweights :)
Interesting .. I can’t remember if this is exactly the same way I balanced with the eq6.
Can i see stars or galaxy in raining day or cloudy???
Since picking up astronomy... I often forget to play my guitar. Thanks Dylan. I thought I came to this video for one reason, but I then realized you made this video to remind me I'm neglecting music. BTW, I lived entropy, especially on sound cancelling headmuffs. Shout out to Rick and You.... and.... Intel.
Hey thanks Dannin! Keep those callouses.
I'd like to add that I always balance the DEC with the shaft horizontal. That's the way Dean at Starizona showed me a long time ago. But, as long as it is balanced, that's what matters. This is a bit off topic but, I would like to see a thorough review of the CGX mount, since you have one. I good friend had one for a while and got rid of it because she had so much trouble. What are your thoughts? I'm thinking up upgrading from my CGEM.
Thanks
Rick in Tucson
Thanks Rick! If it works it works .. the difference between mine and Deans method is exceptionally minor. Nothing but good things to say about the CGX but I should do a more in depth video in time.
Cool...thanks. I figured it was easy but had to be sure.
Just got my 8" EdgeHD scope with CGEMii mount. I noticed the OTA comes with 2 safety screws installed on the bottom. In order to balance my scope, I have to completely remove the safety screw on the back end of the scope (by the eyepiece), to balance it. I can't seem to find a full explanation for the purpose of these safety screws, is it dangerous that I am removing the rear safety screw, in order to slide the scope forward far enough to balance it? Only thing attached to my setup is for visual use. The 1.25" star diagonal, the stock finderscope, and the StarSense module. I am glad I watched your video, I will try to balance the declination axis the way you described next time I'm out.
Not sure.. that certainly doesn't *sound* right!
Now . Balancing a cpc11 on fork with wedge. 😁
Another excellent video. I never under stood why I needed to be a little heavier on the counter weight side. Now I do.
Just bumped into your channel - great video, direct to the point, specific and understandable - THANKS
Thanks Dennis! Appreciate the views !
Could you please do another video on balancing a mount with a side by side situation, one side being the heavy OTA and the other being the lighter guide scope. This sort of thing www.wilmslowastro.com/tips/g11gemini.htm#balancing
Maybe one day when I have a side-by-side setup!
So you balanced without the cables, I see. It seems my cables always throw the balance off as they pull down towards the tripod or wherever they're ultimately connected etc. But I also find that that makes it an impossible variable because trying to hold them up or get a sense of their effect just adds more issues to balancing. Have you found it best to just balance without?
You’re right .. normally I balance with everything and in fact I’ll rebalance with the cgx too because doing that won’t throw out the polar or star alignment.