I own the Victorinox fibrox and I find it to be very practical in a food service/line cook type setting. I really like the handle because it's very grippy and the blocky profile prevents it from twisting in your hand when you've been cutting up meat and vegetables for extended periods of time or when the handle gets greasy or wet
How is the edge retention? I assume it's pretty bad, like he said, but can you compare it to anything? Does it not cut a tomato after 3 days, or is the "dull" at 2 weeks a knife guy's "dull" where it can't split a hair anymore, so it's the worst knife ever? I'm a knife guy, so that would be me LOL I'm just curious how someone in the industry thinks it works.
Yes. Is a chef past 25 years now, its those knifes you will use under professionel setting. Maybe under a soft service in front I grab something from home, never japanese tho, as there is never time to clean it when orders drop
I bought Victorinox knives in 2020 and luv them: 8” chef, 5” chef/utility, and a 3 1/4” paring. I use the 5” the most - I am single and cook for 1 so only minimal home use. I also bought a Victorinox honing steel and they have remained sharp and efficient. They slice though veggies and fruit so easily, even the tricky skins like peppers (I clipped the tip of one finger cutting peppers in a university kitchen with a dull knife). They are not beefy blades so when I am chopping hard root vegetables I’ll usually use my bulkier IKEA brand chopping knife. My first decent knife set and I luv them. After spending most of my life sawing and squish-cutting food it is like a whole new world I didn’t know existed to use sharp knives. Thank you Burrfection
You're spot on the Victorinox needing touch ups every two weeks but the lower HRC makes it easy to resharpen and provides good practice. Also it's affordable enough that it doesn't hurt the soul when someone scratches it or leaves it in the dishwasher ;)
Funny thing is, it's advertised as being easy to sharpen, so you'd think it would dull easy also, but I really liked the edge retention of the Victorinox (Forschener). It didn't dull fast, but it burred instead, so all you have to do is take out a honing steel or stone and a few swipes and it's good.
Love that knife but has to put it on the stone 1000 every day tho... Pain in a arse in my opinion... Does only take 5 min to sharp but get blunt after 2 hours working
@@pb8582 I've got to ask, what are you cutting with it? I use to use mine for 8 hrs a day cutting everything from fruits and vegetables to frozen beef and chicken. And, yes, I've been told to not use a good knife to cut frozen beef or chicken, but I had no problem with it. I might have need to touch it up after about 80 lbs of frozen beef and 80 lbs of frozen chicken, but other than that I might only have to hone it at the end of the shift.
I use Victorinox with fibrox handle. I mostly just touch up it with a honing steel regularly. It stays reasonably sharp and would be an upgrade for most home cooks I know :)
I have had the 10" Fibrox for 9 years. It worked in countless commercial kitchens and stays on the counter at home. It's not the fanciest knife, but to me it's impossible to best. I had also the Messermeister 8" wide blade four seasons knife. I found it at the thrift store. I used it for a few months at a job in lieu of the Victorinox. It was much heavier, for some tasks I think it was superior blue to it's weight. It has a much thicker blade that tends to "wedge " while doing vegetable prep, the tasks that you do 90% of the time in a commercial kitchen I found the Fibrox to be the superior knife. It wasn't quite as fancy looking but who cares.
I have the Victorinox Fibrox and I find it to have good utility for the price. I have two other knives with harder steel and G10 handles that I prefer. It really is about how the knife feels for the individual user during tasks. Thanks for pointing out that within a class of knife there are going to be different characteristics that will be favored by different people.
I’ve never thought that Messermeister had the best steel, but they just feel “right” when I’m using them. The grip, the blade shape, the weight balance. The Victorinox feels too nose heavy and the problem gets worse on the 10” and 12” blade. My daily driver chef knife through culinary school and a few years working in restaurants was a 10” Messermeister Park Place. I’ve owned it for about 15 years now and still use it at home. I own two Messermeister Four Seasons knives, a 10” cimeter and a 3” paring knife. Both of those are decent too, but I’m a lot less picky with those knife shapes anyway. My nice knives in my knife block are mostly Messermeister Meridian Elité. The 9” “Stealth” (thinner) chef knife feel like perfection to me. I’ve actually given the Victorinox Fibrox knives as gifts to people who have garbage knives at home because I know they’re sharp, durable, and cheap enough that I can gift a few different knives without breaking the bank. As a gift I’ll usually give an 8” chef knife, 3” paring knife, 5” serrated utility knife, and 10” bread knife (measurements are approximate) My advice to anyone reading is to test drive the knife, don’t try to buy it based on specs or reviews. Get what feels “right” when you’re using it.
I had Amazon accidentally ship me a bunch of Swiss Classic Victorinox instead of Fibrox knives. I felt the handles were a more slippery material, more cheap plastic and a bit more slippery. I also noticed the blades weren't polished as well and the overall finish of the blades was significantly lower quality considering the fibrox is only a few dollars more. I suspect the "swiss classic" knives are factory seconds that are given a different handle and sold at a discount. The Santoku still had a sharp edge around some of the grantons. Maybe just my experience but the Fibrox was superior.
Both the Fibrox and Classic have the same handle material. The Fibrox has different texture. It's more raw and grippy. The Classic line is NOT factory 2nd's. They are just different handle designs. Same quality. Victorinox do not sell factory 2nds. Just because the price on Amazon dropped on a product does not mean the product is factory 2nd. You and people like you should do research and contact the manufacturer before making assumptions on a public forum.
@@LXT43 I didn't have to contact anyone. I saw it with my own eyes and felt it with my own hands. If you're too sensitive to handle other people's opinions then you should stay off of a public forum. And I do specifically say that I only I'm guessing as to WHY there is a difference in quality... But the difference in quality is both real and profound.
at the same pricepoint are Sanelli and Arcos here in europe. Ikea 365+ is superb budget knife, cost only 20€. It would be creat to see Ikea versus those more "premium" manufacturers like victorinox, sanelli, etc.
Hey Ryky. i tried to sharpen a Morakniv with a Skandy grind. i found it difficult to hold the angle at the curved top. since these knives are very popular you might could give a lot of people some tips for sharpening. Thank you very much.
I work in a kitchen with a bunch of Hubert and one messermeister. We all fight over the messer. I may be biased but after using shuns at home for my entire life, I’m switching to messers because the blade profile just rolls so beautifully during repetitive tasks.
i owned 1 Victorinox Classic, a year later i got one as a gift, cant complain im very happy with them they see regular use even tough i have much more `fancier` knives
Owned the Victorinox Fibrox for over 10 years. Always been my favorite knife. It's been sharpened so many times the depth has shrunk at leas 1/8th an inch but always super reliable, still use it daily at work. I replaced it at home with the the Victorinox 8 inch classic, love it even more than the Fibrox because of the handle. Feels like you're slicing through everything with a razor blade. Only complaint is it's not great for chopping larger heavier veggies like cabbage. And a bit annoying with onions, they suction on to the blade it's so polished. I love Victorinox so much I just ordered another 9 inch knife.
I really liked this review. I'm not in a place where I can afford $100+ knives. A knife shop in Boston turned me on to the Victorinox series and I've never regretted it. They do dull quickly but from watching your videos and buying the right stones I can keep them very sharp.
Mercer genesis/renaissance or dexter icut pro blow either away. Messermeister DOES make higher end knives. This was just a comparison of one the same level as a Victorinox. And yes, they should have included mercer millenia or a wusthof pro
3:30-3:49 THANK YOU! so many people seem to get caught up fussing about different steels and edge retention tests. Yes, it's nice to have, but I would rather have a comfortable knife that I enjoy using, even if that means I have to sharpen it a tiny bit more.
If you want comfortable neither of those are good choices especially the fiberox. But the fiberox is super easy to make better with a dremel. most butchers and cooks dremel their fiberox and sani safes. 10 simple minutes makes a world of difference
@@hrhamada1982 Oh, I more just meant in general, not just with regards to the knives in the video, but that is a fair point. Actually, my personal preference in my kitchen at home is more towards handle-heavy german-style knives lol.
Another great video. Have you tried the 6" Fibrox chef's knife? I'm curious about it as a utility knife/small knife for the wife but haven't seen any reviews of it at all.
I LOVE the head to head comparisons from a working chef/home cook where we get to see 'boots on the ground' results as well as a personalized review. You have both shown the ability to remain impartial and balanced, to share your bias if it exists and remain humble throughout. PLEASE keep these coming and PLEASE do one on sub $20.00 "Japanese" steel chefs knives we find on eBay and Amazon. Yes, I know, I should crawl back into my hole... but sometimes these knives are gems in the rough! Thank you Ricky, you ROCK!!
those "Japanese steel" knives on amazon and ebay are really communist CHINESE knives almost always of mediocre quality. they are NOT a replacement for a quality knife. There are TONS of inexpensive quality knives you will see ryky and some of the other commerters talking about. It is good to be frugal, is is NOT good to be "cheap" You usually don't save money by being cheap, unless you're using it only sparingly like a Harbor Freight tool. If you are going to use it often, buy a quality high 'bang for the buck" item. And just the way a company advertises should tell you a lot about it. If they are advertising in an unethical way, is that a company you want to put your trust in?
@@hrhamada1982, I disagree. I have one that was purchased at the market and it out performs our US made knives hands down. Better edge, lasts longer, whats not to love? Don't be a hater....
@@spamento yes, the laws of physics cease when they enter your kitchen. I'm not a hater of vickies. I've still probably got a dozen of them. It's my primary BBQ knives. They're the #1 knives used by butchers. I just happen to have had more than 30 years in a real working kitchen, so I know when people have mistaken ideas. And, if you like vickies, wait till you try a messermeister, a FDick, a Wusthof, a Henckels, a Mercer, a Schmidt Brothers, or any number of other german steel knives, much less a knife by a good maker in VG10, Shirogami, aogami, 52100, s35vn, bd1n, d2, etc, etc, etc
I own 2 Messer's. Meridian elite..had a buddy put a custom Edge on it so it's more of a chopper, and the Oliva ellie which is flawless for everything up until heavy duty
Got a whole set of Victornox classics from C&M for a family member at Christmas, very sharp and a great value. Shame they already nicked up the edges on the 5" chef.
Last week I have purchased the Victorinox Fibrox 8" just for the purpose of testing what is the best knife under 30 Euros. I have to say Victorinox is excellent for that price. Tescoma Azza or the Ikea 365+ don't come even close to this one in the same price range.
I have the Victorinox classic. Ryky is totally correct when he says that the knife feels like it needs to be sharpened about once a week. When it was my primary knife that is exactly what I did. These days I use it as a beater when I don't want to worry about using a good knife.
yes, a working cook needs to sharpen it daily and hone it a dozen or more times a day. That means about once a week for a home cook and honing once a day minimum
I agree, I have two vintage old hickory knives an 8 inch and a 12 inch butcher.. When sharp, they are beasts. I also have a fibrox, a mad shark and a cutco as my low end everyday knives and a Zwilling Pro S just because someone once told me I had to own one if I considered myself a respectable cook (lol) Out the box, the Fibrox is sharpest. but my old hickory carbon steel knives can be sharpened easier and I feel invincible with them, especially the 12 inch butcher. I use it when grilling outside... the damn thing makes me feel invincible.
I'm a new sub just watched this vid because I've owned the 10" Victorinox chef knife for 5+ yrs,I'm interested in your opinion on I used the Chef choice model130 sharpener for 20deg knives for a few yrs on all my knives(chicago,messermeister,etc)I then bought the Chefs Choice Razor(for15deg knives)I converted all my knives to 15deg and found them sharper,edge lasted longer,and most of the time just used the stropping slot to get them sharper again.What say you?
@Lesgo Brandon it was chosen as a gift because I had wanted a knife that I could practice sharpening on and wouldn't feel completely awful about messing up, if that were to happen
AGREE!!!!!!!!! Especially the Genesis or renaissance. FORGED instead of stamped and about the same price point Or Wusthof Pro if you want stamped Mercers and Wusthof pro blow the victorinox away for people who actually cook, not just watch cooking on TV
@@dimmacommunication Gentilissimo Sig. Andrea, Okay then. You mentioned green and black, what do you recommend and why? I'm searching all the European knife manufacturers, I would like to try what you mentioned. La ringrazio per l'aiuto nella risoluzione di questa questione.
@@CrowbarXOX I've seen only now yout question, sorry If I respond only now. Sanelli knives are good quality and very good for the price. Also victorinox are good, similar steel but I prefer sanelli handle.
I don't like Victorinox classic but if it is in an environment other than my kitchen I will grab that one, Victorinox fibrox is my favourite handle I rarely sharpen them, literally I also have their sharpening tool, I use plastic chopping boards to preserve their sharpness, I still cut onions and no crying that sharp they stay
I have the victorinox knives, but mostly with the swibo handles. They are a small step up in price but make the grip incredible. I would love to see a comparison video with the swibo line. Just a note the swibo knives were originally made by wenger I believe. But they are now from victorinox.
Ricky, Just discovered your channel while trying to find a sincere enthusiast that is mature and insightful about knives. Subscribed! But I notice a lot of interesting knives you profile are internet order only. For the home user/enthusiast, how do you recommend we audition/choose/purchase knives we can’t hold in our hands? The only real knife shop I have in my town is a Williams-Sonoma. So Wustoff or Shun. I’m interested in cutlery and more but i don’t want to buy and be stuck with the wrong knife for me. Enso looks cool but there’s no way to hold one before purchasing.
I own two victorinox knifes which are both 6-inch long, one with the swiss classic grip and the other one with the fibrox grip. While i believe you that the swiss classic grip may feel better on the 8-inch knife, it is a complete disaster on the 6-inch version. The 6-inch blade having considerably less height there is no way you can use the belly of the blade without your knuckles hitting the board first, using the swiss classic handle. The fibrox handle improves it by slightly being angled upwards, allowing your fingers to fit under the handle. Just something to look out for when buying the 6-inch version. Apart from that i think they are amazing soft-steel knives and most criticism actually comes from them being made out of soft steel because they get compared to hard-steel knives a lot. I can confirm the 1-2 weeks kitchen use sharpness, but because they are made out of soft steel, they resharpen in about 2 minutes after that, basically only requiring 20 alternating back strokes on a rozsutec stone (which is somewhere around 5000-8000 grit). It also seems to be pretty unbreakeable as i have smacked it into duck bones, had friends drop it on the ground and had a flat mate run it through the dishwasher without chipping or rusting it. The victorinox knives are also the only knives i know that actually feel like plastic when you run your fingernails over the sides of the blade. Try it and you will know what i'm talking about, the surface is so smooth.
I've never used the 6 inch classic or fiberox, but I HIGHLY liked your post. YES, knife designs are different based on different lengths and the ergonomics vary as well. While in theory a designer takes ergonomics into play, that does not mean they have equal usability. The longer a knife is, means less force doing one task at a certain place, and more force doing another because of leverage and ergonomics. Also as you pointed out knuckle clearance, "sweet spot" vary. And a tall person with small hands, would best be served by a different knife than one with big hands or a a short person with big or small hands. ERGONOMINS and style matter! THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHTFUL POST that mentions things most of us don't consider!!!!! And yes, soft steel is not necessarily better OR worse than hard steel. It depends on the task you are doing. Hard steel for one task. Soft for another! Yes, they're practically indstructable, that's why they were (and still are) often used in many working kitchens. There IS a beneft to soft steel. That's why german steel is used for the company knives. And while I hate ANY knife going through a dishwasher, of course they're not going to rust, they're stainless (rust proof).
So many brands to review ... but I really believe you should compare the Victorinox and Messermeister (Burgvogel) to the Friedrich Dick ProDynamic. Like Victorinox, Friedrich Dick is a brand mainly in use by professionals in the meat processing industry.
I've used the Victorinox Fibrox 8" for the last 3 years at home and with a honing rod I go on for several months before needing to sharpen it. I picked it up online for $32 and just overall a great value. Now I mainly use a Japanese gyuto and reserve the Victorinox harder items or if certain meats have bones. Or if I feel extremely lazy in trying to keep the gyuto clean. The Victorinox is easy to sharpen on stones and have used it well for practice.
several months before you needed to sharpen it? Then either it most sit in the drawer, or you don't know what sharp is. An average home cook should sharpen a knife of that quality once every two weeks or so
in terms of comparing $30 Messermeister vs $40 Mercer (Mercer Renaissance Chef), is the Mercer an obvious choice? Burrfection has good reviews on these 2 knives, and I am torn between choosing one. Can someone advise? Thanks!
I imagine you bought your knife by now. : ) But for anyone else looking at these knives, the steel in what I assume is the Messermeister "Four Seasons" is roughly comparable to Mercer's X50, and I believe they both have a factory bevel of 15 degrees. The Mercer is forged, with a more traditional handle shape, compared to the stamped Messermeister with the more modern handle. I have the Mercer and love it, but I like old-school stuff. Mercers are made very well and so is my Messermeister Oliva Elite, although I have no experience with this model here. It gets into your preference in the end. For all the measurable stuff they're both dandy knives.
I haven't tried a Pirge, but it's NOT hard to be better than a Victorinox fiberox. ATK just posted a laugably stupid review and everyone that doesn't have the guts to say "the emperor is wearing no clothes" just caved in. I wish youtube had the ability to post pics, but I'll google it! thanks, Always trying to learn, even at my age and level of experience.
I bought a Victorinox with wooden handles and air gaps in the blade. Love it! Super low angle on the grind tho, so I've only tried to polish the edge slightly to find the angle before I need to sharpen it for real :D
I bought the Victorinox with the express purpose of building my sharpening skills. Don't want to practice on a $150+ knife. Actually I got a excellent edge on the knife. I still prefer my Misono or Wustof knives but if you're on a budget, the Victorinox will serve you well.
keep the angle on your victorinox. It is too soft to take a steep angle. The edge will just roll over and you will need to hone much more. I'd go 15-17 at the most and I'd think about 17 would be a good place to be
Ricky you have have have to check into the spiderco chef knife American company made in Japan vg10 7 inch blade it is a very compelling knife!!I would love to know what you think about it.
I personally own several spyderco knives and think highly of the company. VG10 IS a great steel for a chefs knife. I have not tried a spyderco chefs yet. But for 200 bucks you can get far better knives made of better steel. You can even get a Miyabi Artisan or Mizu for 150 made of SG2 core or a Tojiro for 130 with an SG2 core, made by Japanese companies with a long history of kitchen knives and used by working professionals. (I'm sure the spyderco is made in china. It will probably be the only chefs knife coming out of china in vg10 because spyderco is one of the very few allowed to use vg10) I'd say at 75-130, it would be a good buy,, but not at 200
For me knife shape is most important im currently looking for an usuba basically a single bevel veggy cleaver But its hard to find under 100 bucks where i live
Hello ricky, I have seen several videos of your channel, but I have never seen a sharpening tutorial or talk about the Global Knife brand ... this is for something in particular or does not fit into the theme of high quality or premium knives ? Greetings from Chile!!!
Yes, Global IS a premium, high quality knife. Global are objectively great knives. Solidly built, well designed. they have a superb reputation with working pros. They are easy to sharpen, they take a better edge than German steel and keep that edge longer. BUT they have a very distinctive style handle that people either love or hate. Also, being all steel, they tend to amplify heat and cold. The handles also tend to "deaden" the "feel" of the knife. I highly recommend you try one for at least a few hours before you buy. But I CAN wholeheartedly recommend them IF you have actual use with one and like the handle. They're nothing special you have to know about sharpening a global vs another knife. They're shaped very "modern" but you use the same technique. The steel is easy to sharpen.
They have two series of Asian knives, one very utilitarian one more upscale with better steel. I have kept one of their utilitarian debas. It's a tank, I've really abused it and it's kept on going, and going, and going. But it's certainly no finesse knife. not as impressed by the VG10 series in general as I am by their millenia, renaisance or genesis. The design is good, the build is good. But at that price, you could get a isseya, or especially a yaxell mon, yaxell tschuimon, or a tojiro DP.
I appreciate the budget knife perspective. Thanks. Are there any "good" knives that can stand being put in the dish washer? Yes, I know heresy. My household cooks a lot and puts everything in the dishwasher. If it can't survive the dishwasher, it's trashed in short order. I'd hate to be stuck with low end knives because the handle can't take the heat.
For most people with nice knives, it's not the handle which is the issue (and I think the fibrix would be ok), it's the blade. Repeated dishwasher-ing degrades the edge, albeit at a very fine level and will continually downgrade the edge. If you want one to put in the dishwasher, then one like this which is stainless steel is better (Carbon steel rusts very easily, this doesn't), but all blades will suffer more quickly and loose that nice edge more quickly. Of course, you can sharpen them...
@@jamessparrow1556 I guess I find that even more confusing. How could stainless steel have a problem with a dishwasher? That's the poi t of stainless, isn't it? I'm mean what could actually do damage to the steel? It's the handle that matters. Isn't it? Is the San Moritz Elite up to the task of daily dish washings since it has a POM handle? That line actually looks like nice knives. Is it or is it just another plastic knife? Seems I shouldn't be alone in thinking I should be able to wash my knives in the dish washer, but, I cant find any reviews of knives other then Wustovs as the "best knife of 2020." Why is the dish washer so discriminated?
@@dholshouser Hi David, Stainless steel knives will deal with it much better, and I know a lot of people do put their knives in, particuarly the small one. Reading about it again, to ensure I'm not just misremembering, the key things are.. 1) The chemicals used are very corrosive and can have an accumulative affect on the very fine edge of the blade. Depending on how sharp you keep it you may not notice, but everything suggests it will damage the edge slowly. Regular cutlery doesn't have such a fine edge of course. 2) Things like knives get banged around in the dishwasher under the high pressure jets, which again can damage the edge. I've not had a dishwasher with a cutlery tray that would hold them securely though and they have to go loose on the top shelf racks, so perhaps there are ways to avoid it. 3) I've read some suggestion that the heat could cause warping of the blade, though I'm rather sceptical about this, especially with a stainless steel blade. Victorinox are known as good commercial kitchen knives as they can take damage and be resharpened easily. They're relatively softer steel and so less brittle etc, and the fibrox handles are fairly bombproof. It's entirely your choice, please don't feel I'm telling you what to do. :)
Question: will you do a comparison of the MD100 and MD400 against the almighty chosera 800 and 3000 combo? I want the extra real estate of he MD line, but I don't know if it has the chops to stand next to the venerated chosera combo. Also, is there anything wrong with the chosera 2K? love the videos, thanks for sharing and taking the time!
I love my Victorinox! All the haters can hate! I use a mechanical sharpener and finish on a cheap whetstone with this and many others! I have many knives, from cheap to expensive, also a staff that I sharpen for.
I have a victorinox I like it but I wish I have a Japanese blade but I will buy me one when all this ends any recommendations on a good Japanese blade not to crazy on the price I have a Japanese knife 🔪 they call Wasabi on Amazon one side sharp
Got myself a Victorinox Fibrox, on my trip to Moscow. I live in Russia, actually, so it is not that I had much of a choice: even where I reside (Nizhny Novgorod, one of the few 1kk+ cities in Russia) there are no shops where anything like that is even present. Here it is mostly about cheap ~15$ supermarket knives at best, so even such "low-end knives" are almost out of question (the lowest I could find Fibrox at was around... 40$, if I recall correctly). So, even finding Fibrox was troublesome, as there are close to no Victorinox retailers here, let alone trying out Messermeister (spoiler: there were none) :) So far I am very content with the purchase, and should say that even at this price point it holds its value for money, expecially considering what the alternatives are. Having watched the video, though, I think I picked right, albeit it is still a shame I could not try the other variant. Cheers from Russia, dear sir, and keep up the great content!
I'm always interested in hearing about what is available in other countries. I used to live in England and Germany and if it wasn't readily available, I could easily order it. Now I live in the USA and the same applies, but I do have a lot wider availability in stores. We also have a lot more blacksmiths and artisans making knives.Not in every town or anything, but there are at least 4-5 within a couple hours of driving. One of them is only 30 minutes away and another sells in a local cutlery store. They are expensive, so I haven't bought one yet.
@@samuelmahoney6878 that is actually quite nice to have. A year ago I did an exchange semester in Germany, and in this sense it was still way better than in Russia (especially considering that, for example, Amazon Prime DOES work there and does not here - and some stuff will simply not pass the customs, even if mailed). So we, the Russians, often have to get by what is available and hone our skills with things at hand, sometimes relying on less fancy equipment :)
Kirill Nikolaev: Have you ever thought about getting into knife making? It sounds like there's potentially a market for them, although I don't know if entrepreneurialism works in Russia??
@Burrfection I browsed your channel trying to find if you have made any videos about sharpening pocket knifes and couldn't find any. Would you consider making a video on how to sharpen pocket knifes, like an $8.00 MTech USA Ballistic MT-A705. Would be very cool to see your thoughts and techniques!
yes, or dexter or wusthof pro, (or the four seasons/park plaza mentioned in the video. ) etc. They are cheap and reliable. no one cares if they get accidentally thrown out. Yes, as you and I know, they are NOT meant to be primary use knives. They're meant to be used if someone forgets their roll at home. But that is not what the average home cook thinks, especially after seeing that stupid ATK video
@@Andersp90 they they are a top pick in the US for butchers too, followed closely by dexter sanidafe. Yes, they do not old their edge, but thats exactly why they are good for butchers and fishmongers because they are so ductile, they don't chip. Add a very non slip handle and a flexible blade and it's perfect for them. It also used to be the "house" knives (owned by the company) of choice because they were cheap and reliable. But victorinox is very quickly being supplanted by dexter and wusthof pro in the US. Victorinox has not improved over the years and Wusthof has aimed squarely at the same demographic and beat victorinox. Similar steel but hardened higher, steeper edge bevel, keeps an edge better, but is still ductile, better wrist to board ergonomics, better sweet spot, better hadle shape, better handle material, antibacterial, less fatiguing, etc. But like the victorinox, a few quick swipes with a honing steel and you're good enough to last an hour. However, The needs of a butcher fish monger are opposite that of a home cook or a working cook. A working cook wants a knife that takes a better edge and holds that edge. We do NOT want a "floppy" knife. We want a comfortable handle, We want a less fatiguing ergonomics, we aren't nearly as worried about non slip, and IF we are doing meat fabrication, we WILL bring out the victorinox or the dexter. Just because we use better quality knives 90% of the time does NOT mean we don't keep a german steel knife in our roll at all times. And just because a knife is good for one job, does NOT mean it is good for a different job.
I have the victorinox boning knife. I love it. I use it for everything since I have yet to purchase a quality chef's knife. It has stayed relatively sharp for me for quite some time.
A working cook would need to sharpen a knife of that quality once a day and hone it a dozen or more times a day. That translates to maybe sharpening once a month and honing once a day MINIMUM. You probably don't know what sharp is anymore. But they DO make an excellent boning knife if only a mediocre to poor chefs knife. It's weakness as a chef knife are a strngth as a boning knife. I would HIGHLY recommend you think twice about a victorinox chef knife unless you're a butcher, fish monger or you're using it for BBQ. But it would be one of my first choices for those activilites. Ask a real working cook, don't just watch the stupid ATK video review.
@@hrhamada1982 I know how to sharpen a knife bud. When I do decide to sharpen my knives will pop hair. But in a home kitchen you shouldnt be destroying your edge unless you dont know how to use a knife. Like I said though I'm excited to purchase quality steel.
I've been looking at the All Purpose knife from Dexter Russell's Duoglide line. It's right in this price point, and I'd love to see a comparison. I bought the smaller utility knife, and while I had to tune up the factory edge, it holds an edge fine and the grip is truly wonderful. I don't have arthritis or anything, but it's a non-skid grip that fills the hand nicely and the little guy is why I want the larger version. Sadly, I've seen almost nothing on the knife aside from an infomercial style advert.
We've had that Fibrox for over 3 years now, and I've worked with/sharpened my share of kitchen knives. I can't find a better value than the Victorinox. Edge retention is more than acceptable, on par with the carbon steels I'm used to, and it touches up easily. I've used a few Cutcos and though they seem a tad "sturdier" than the Fibrox (the Fibrox is not flimsy at all) they don't sharpen or cut any better.
in NO way is a german steel "on par with carbon steel" but I do agree it's a great value and easy to touch up. Cutco does NOT belong in even a gourmet home cook's kitchen. Just give it to goodwill or sell it on craigslist. get rid of it. it is utter JUNK. the reason why crudco seems sturdier is because it is thicker stock, and because it is forged not stamped. I have a HIGH preference for a forged knife, but not if it is crudco. You can buy hamilton forge, farberware, and other brands from the grocery store or Walmart from the same steel that a crudco is made of. I understand that we all have relatives of friends that guilt us into a demo and guilt us into buying one, but really you'd be batter off with a Hampton forge or an oxo and certainly better off with your Victorinox. If you're a follower of ryky's you know that while I HATE the ATK video, I don't think Victorinox is bad just that it isn't as good as ATK claims, and there are better things at the same price. But you will NEVER hear a working cook say anything even halfway nice about crudco. you should also look into other great inexpensive knives like schmit bros, mercer, dexter, nexus etc, etc, etc
yeah the dexter sani-safe is a good competitor to the fiberox and the icut pro blows the victorinox away. FORGED instead of stamped, comfortable handle and stays sharper longer
we really don't get those here in the states. Wusthof, Henckels, FDick and Messermeister are the big european names for kitchen knives here in the states. I don't even know if they have US distribution. I worked with a Russian guy named Arkady that had a chefs knife of theirs. Not bad, not great. I'd say it would make a good workhorse, but not a knife for fine dining like I worked. I probably would not recommend them over a Wusthof, Henckels or Messermeister, but it all depends on what is availible to you in your country.
Depends on which model and which year it came out. Id reprofile either to 17 for most people. Its so soft that 15 degrees rolls over too quickly and you have to hone much more often
Hey Ryky, I would love to see a comparison between Messermeister's Meridian Elite 8", Wustof's Classic 8", and Zwilling's Gourmet 8" chef knives. I personally own the Messermeister, and I think it's a beauty to use and to see, but I would love to see a comparison between it and the big 2 German brands. Seeing a Yoshihiro on your channel would be cool, too. I have one and I've heard they're the Japanese equivalent to Messermeister; very well reputed, sometimes better than mainstream competition, but not as known globally. Thanks!
yes, I'd love a head to head of those three. As far as yoshihiro. they hake about 20 or so complete lines, not just one. They are a retailer, not a mfgr. they OEM many knives. ALL of which are excellent values for the dollar. ALL are "harder" than a messermeister (harder is not necessisarily always better). they don't even make "soft" knives. I can heartedly recommend just about anything Yoshi sells. I've got dozens of hours on maybe 6-7 makes of their knives and I own a NSW.
and BTW The gourmet series is a consumer line of stamped blades. Wusthof classic/Messermeister Merisdian/San Moritz would be comparable to a Henckes ProS or 4 star.
But missed the point of carbon knives completely: carbon knives are way easier to resharpen and hone. And sharpness out of the box is no reference what so ever.
great cheap knife. It blows away the fiberox. better blade shape. Similar steel but hardened to a higher rockwell (holds edge longer) but just as easy to sharpen same abrasion resistance). Less flex (not as floppy, but it's still a "stamped knife" even though it's laser cut). Steeper out of the box bevel, (but bevel is NOT a sign it's better) More ergonomic handle to board angle (for your wrist). Better handle material very comfortable. Antibacterial (fiberox is not). Better handle shape. It is one of the knives that is replacing the Victorinox as a "house knife" (owned by the company) in working kitchens because it's higher quality and cheaper.
@Lesgo Brandon wusthof pro is about the same price as a victorinox. 30-40 bucks. In fact, the Wusthof pro is rapidly replacing victorinox as the "in house" knife (owned by the company, not by the cook) in many retaurants. Better design, better handle material, more ergonomic, antibacterial, etc. A knife does not need to be expensive to be good. And inexpensive can be an asset, especially for what a victorinox, mercer millenia, dexter sani safe, dexter vlo, wusthof pro is specifically designed for. But "cheap" is just "cheap" and Cheap can actually be expensive (look at kamikoto , coolina, or dalstrong for example).
I appreciate your approach to comparing these knives, and for what they are they are solid choices for the average home cook. I own a 10' Victornox and have been more than pleased with it's performance. Nearly every European kitchen knife maker uses 1.411, even in the high end Henckels and Wusthof offering's. the problem with this particular steel is that in order to try to get more performance out of it they oftentimes cryogenically treat it. I have found in my experience that this steel hardened to a higher HRC results in a blade prone to chipping in anything but fine slicing.
it may be a truism that in general the harder the steel, the less ductile it is. As far asusing 4116 steel, yes, it is true that many use it, but the heat treat, the temper, the blade geometry, including the spine thickness and distal taper matter. And as ryky pointed out, vickies are 'floppy" because of their thin spine thickness and lack of distal taper especially in long lengths. If you like your 10 inch fiberox, imagine what a wusthof pro or a messermeister would do for your slicing. Or better yet, a dexter icot pro or a mercer genesis/rennasance
With these knives. You are really not supposed to use whetstones which aim for super sharp edges and least metal loss. Softer steel would lose that super sharp edge in few moments anyways. Just basic two stage automatic sharpener is enough, and it takes no time at all. So you should not have any problem keeping these sharp. Overall, these knives are supposed to be sharpened often. And it should only take few seconds to do it.
I prep about 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week with this Victorinox, and a honmamon 9.5 gyuto. the victorinox is a knife i never worry about chipping or breaking unlike my gyuto knife. but my gyuto is much sharper(i sharpen my own knives once a month). i highly suggest the victorinox over the messermeister as a coworker of mine has one and he ended up buying the victorinox.
only two types of knives pros use Victorinox or global well in the west and any they can nick ;) its a chef thing unless your names on it its fair game
Hi Ricky I have given the victorinox chefs knife as a gift several times to friends and for the most part they have been happy with the blade I have there boning knife and find the fribrox handle comfortable for my large hands . Regards Dean from Oz
NSF is simply something that's paid for; it means almost nothing. Thinner spine or thinness prevents breaking vs cutting on hard veg. Edge retention is mostly about edge angles; not the steel. Harder knives can generally hold more acute edge angles better (which is why it's preferable). I would like to watch a Mercer vs Victorinox video.
yes, they PAY for the NSF certification, but that certification is for a reason. THICKER, not thinner would prevent breakage. I think you probably just had a typo. I agree, Edge retention DOES have something to do with angles as, you say. Too steep an edge bevel would tend to roll over or tend to chip. Too extreme is NOT good despite what some people think. However hardness DOES matter, as well as SHAPE. The same exact shape with a harder steel will have higher edge retention, however the same steel hardened to the same rockwll will have different scores on a catra test. YES, I agree with you design matters Mercer genesis or renaissance are FORGED knives and forged knives will always have an advantage in a carta test because of flex. The mercers are also hardened to a higher rate and come with a better out of box bevel, but OOTB sharpness means nothing after one day with german steel. Millenia is like fiberox it is stamped. I like the steel of victorinox better than the millenia, but I like the shape, ergonomics, handle, sweet spot, , etc of the millenia better. If you get a chance, you should check out wusthof pro as a cheap stamped knife.
Nice video as always. I own a Shun classic and just picked up couple of Victorinox Fibrox. Isharpen my own knives, What angle would you sharpen the Shun and the Victotinox? Thank you in advance.
really that is a function of personal preference. since the Shun is harder steel, it will retain an edge at a steeper angle than the victorinox. I am a home cook so really edge retention isnt a big deal to me. I tend to sharpen at steeper angles because I like the performance in the short term. Now, I don't know exactly what angles I sharpen at, but my harder knives (60+), I tend to do around 10 degrees. My softer knives, I tend to do around 15. My Miyabi tends to be closer to 15 since I haven't reset the bevel. The only knife I sharpen close to 20 degrees is a cleaver.
it is a matter of preference within reason, but 4116 steel will not really hold even a 15 degree edge well, it rolls over too easy, but if you hone OFTEN, you'll be fine. The steeper the angle the MORE you need to hone not less. 17-19 is better for most people. As far as your shun, VGmax can hold a 11 degree edge, but the steeper the profile, the more likely you are to chip it. Having a better knife is like having a better car, it means MORE skill and discipline is needed, not less. If you are an advanced home gourmet cook or a working cook, I'd keep the shun at 12-15. If you are just average cook, I'd keep it at 15 The more experienced and more disciplined you are, the steeper the bevel you can use assuming the steel can support it A steeper edge is NOT automatically better any more than harder steel is not automatically better. It depends on the user and the type of product youre cutting
I seen a good deal on a Mac Damascus knife and I was wondering how good of a knife those are, I have Miyabi birchwoods and a couple miyabi blacks but I am not sure on Mac. Any thoughts?
Eh, maybe I will skip the Mac, it is probably fine but I like my birchwoods pretty well. I would rather pay more for a better experience. Thank you for the information. What is your brand and model preference for knives?
@@theunchartedtrucker1113The MAC is SUPERB for a push/pull cutter. The Miyabi birchwood is a bit more versatile for people that do both rocking and push/pull. While I'd rate the MAC as a solid 9 out of 10 on the objective scale, it's all in your body ergonomics and your cutting style and the birchwood is ALSO a solid 9 out of 10 also! I don't own a birchwood, but ive got quite a few Artisans (not as gorgeous as yours, but great for a value for the dollar guy like me) but of course I've got a few weeks with one. Enjoy your birchwood!!!!!! ( but the mac is great, too) I actually don't have a MAC Damascus, but I've got a MAC pro, but I think very highly of the company.
I own the Victorinox fibrox and I find it to be very practical in a food service/line cook type setting. I really like the handle because it's very grippy and the blocky profile prevents it from twisting in your hand when you've been cutting up meat and vegetables for extended periods of time or when the handle gets greasy or wet
Exactly what im looking for
How is the edge retention? I assume it's pretty bad, like he said, but can you compare it to anything? Does it not cut a tomato after 3 days, or is the "dull" at 2 weeks a knife guy's "dull" where it can't split a hair anymore, so it's the worst knife ever?
I'm a knife guy, so that would be me LOL
I'm just curious how someone in the industry thinks it works.
Yes. Is a chef past 25 years now, its those knifes you will use under professionel setting. Maybe under a soft service in front I grab something from home, never japanese tho, as there is never time to clean it when orders drop
I bought Victorinox knives in 2020 and luv them: 8” chef, 5” chef/utility, and a 3 1/4” paring. I use the 5” the most - I am single and cook for 1 so only minimal home use. I also bought a Victorinox honing steel and they have remained sharp and efficient. They slice though veggies and fruit so easily, even the tricky skins like peppers (I clipped the tip of one finger cutting peppers in a university kitchen with a dull knife). They are not beefy blades so when I am chopping hard root vegetables I’ll usually use my bulkier IKEA brand chopping knife. My first decent knife set and I luv them. After spending most of my life sawing and squish-cutting food it is like a whole new world I didn’t know existed to use sharp knives. Thank you Burrfection
The tip of my left hand middle finger still has a slant on the right side where the notch of skin/flesh was clipped off. 😛
You're spot on the Victorinox needing touch ups every two weeks but the lower HRC makes it easy to resharpen and provides good practice. Also it's affordable enough that it doesn't hurt the soul when someone scratches it or leaves it in the dishwasher ;)
I found the victorinox to be perfect for my family, knives too sharp are dangerous for the " every day " cooker
Funny thing is, it's advertised as being easy to sharpen, so you'd think it would dull easy also, but I really liked the edge retention of the Victorinox (Forschener). It didn't dull fast, but it burred instead, so all you have to do is take out a honing steel or stone and a few swipes and it's good.
@@OokamiKageGinGetsu Yeah it's super easy to sharpen :)
Love that knife but has to put it on the stone 1000 every day tho... Pain in a arse in my opinion... Does only take 5 min to sharp but get blunt after 2 hours working
@@pb8582 I've got to ask, what are you cutting with it? I use to use mine for 8 hrs a day cutting everything from fruits and vegetables to frozen beef and chicken. And, yes, I've been told to not use a good knife to cut frozen beef or chicken, but I had no problem with it. I might have need to touch it up after about 80 lbs of frozen beef and 80 lbs of frozen chicken, but other than that I might only have to hone it at the end of the shift.
I use Victorinox with fibrox handle. I mostly just touch up it with a honing steel regularly. It stays reasonably sharp and would be an upgrade for most home cooks I know :)
I have had the 10" Fibrox for 9 years. It worked in countless commercial kitchens and stays on the counter at home. It's not the fanciest knife, but to me it's impossible to best. I had also the Messermeister 8" wide blade four seasons knife. I found it at the thrift store. I used it for a few months at a job in lieu of the Victorinox. It was much heavier, for some tasks I think it was superior blue to it's weight. It has a much thicker blade that tends to "wedge " while doing vegetable prep, the tasks that you do 90% of the time in a commercial kitchen I found the Fibrox to be the superior knife. It wasn't quite as fancy looking but who cares.
I have the Victorinox Fibrox and I find it to have good utility for the price. I have two other knives with harder steel and G10 handles that I prefer. It really is about how the knife feels for the individual user during tasks. Thanks for pointing out that within a class of knife there are going to be different characteristics that will be favored by different people.
I’ve never thought that Messermeister had the best steel, but they just feel “right” when I’m using them. The grip, the blade shape, the weight balance. The Victorinox feels too nose heavy and the problem gets worse on the 10” and 12” blade.
My daily driver chef knife through culinary school and a few years working in restaurants was a 10” Messermeister Park Place. I’ve owned it for about 15 years now and still use it at home. I own two Messermeister Four Seasons knives, a 10” cimeter and a 3” paring knife. Both of those are decent too, but I’m a lot less picky with those knife shapes anyway. My nice knives in my knife block are mostly Messermeister Meridian Elité. The 9” “Stealth” (thinner) chef knife feel like perfection to me.
I’ve actually given the Victorinox Fibrox knives as gifts to people who have garbage knives at home because I know they’re sharp, durable, and cheap enough that I can gift a few different knives without breaking the bank. As a gift I’ll usually give an 8” chef knife, 3” paring knife, 5” serrated utility knife, and 10” bread knife (measurements are approximate)
My advice to anyone reading is to test drive the knife, don’t try to buy it based on specs or reviews. Get what feels “right” when you’re using it.
You're a good friend. Nice to have gifts.
I had Amazon accidentally ship me a bunch of Swiss Classic Victorinox instead of Fibrox knives. I felt the handles were a more slippery material, more cheap plastic and a bit more slippery. I also noticed the blades weren't polished as well and the overall finish of the blades was significantly lower quality considering the fibrox is only a few dollars more. I suspect the "swiss classic" knives are factory seconds that are given a different handle and sold at a discount. The Santoku still had a sharp edge around some of the grantons. Maybe just my experience but the Fibrox was superior.
Both the Fibrox and Classic have the same handle material. The Fibrox has different texture. It's more raw and grippy. The Classic line is NOT factory 2nd's. They are just different handle designs. Same quality. Victorinox do not sell factory 2nds. Just because the price on Amazon dropped on a product does not mean the product is factory 2nd. You and people like you should do research and contact the manufacturer before making assumptions on a public forum.
@@LXT43 I didn't have to contact anyone. I saw it with my own eyes and felt it with my own hands. If you're too sensitive to handle other people's opinions then you should stay off of a public forum. And I do specifically say that I only I'm guessing as to WHY there is a difference in quality... But the difference in quality is both real and profound.
at the same pricepoint are Sanelli and Arcos here in europe. Ikea 365+ is superb budget knife, cost only 20€. It would be creat to see Ikea versus those more "premium" manufacturers like victorinox, sanelli, etc.
Mercer for me. Good quality and great prices!
Hey Ryky.
i tried to sharpen a Morakniv with a Skandy grind. i found it difficult to hold the angle at the curved top. since these knives are very popular you might could give a lot of people some tips for sharpening. Thank you very much.
I work in a kitchen with a bunch of Hubert and one messermeister. We all fight over the messer. I may be biased but after using shuns at home for my entire life, I’m switching to messers because the blade profile just rolls so beautifully during repetitive tasks.
I've got a set of MM san moritz style and LOVE them!
Which model of the Messermiester are you using?
I know it’s a different price category but you asked... I picked up a 9 inch Wusthof Classic with HALF BOLSTER... love it and now my go to knife.
great knife!
i owned 1 Victorinox Classic, a year later i got one as a gift, cant complain im very happy with them they see regular use even tough i have much more `fancier` knives
Owned the Victorinox Fibrox for over 10 years. Always been my favorite knife.
It's been sharpened so many times the depth has shrunk at leas 1/8th an inch but always super reliable, still use it daily at work.
I replaced it at home with the the Victorinox 8 inch classic, love it even more than the Fibrox because of the handle.
Feels like you're slicing through everything with a razor blade. Only complaint is it's not great for chopping larger heavier veggies like cabbage. And a bit annoying with onions, they suction on to the blade it's so polished.
I love Victorinox so much I just ordered another 9 inch knife.
always good to hear from experienced users. thanks for sharing
But what is that beautiful cleaver one you're using??
I really liked this review. I'm not in a place where I can afford $100+ knives. A knife shop in Boston turned me on to the Victorinox series and I've never regretted it. They do dull quickly but from watching your videos and buying the right stones I can keep them very sharp.
Do you use the knives in a professional kitchen or home use?
Episode should have been named "Best $30 Work Horse!" :D Might have been worth including a Dexter in this conversation.
Mercer genesis/renaissance or dexter icut pro blow either away.
Messermeister DOES make higher end knives. This was just a comparison of one the same level as a Victorinox. And yes, they should have included mercer millenia or a wusthof pro
3:30-3:49
THANK YOU! so many people seem to get caught up fussing about different steels and edge retention tests. Yes, it's nice to have, but I would rather have a comfortable knife that I enjoy using, even if that means I have to sharpen it a tiny bit more.
If you want comfortable neither of those are good choices especially the fiberox.
But the fiberox is super easy to make better with a dremel. most butchers and cooks dremel their fiberox and sani safes. 10 simple minutes makes a world of difference
@@hrhamada1982 Oh, I more just meant in general, not just with regards to the knives in the video, but that is a fair point. Actually, my personal preference in my kitchen at home is more towards handle-heavy german-style knives lol.
@@veraxis9961 thumbs up!
Another great video. Have you tried the 6" Fibrox chef's knife? I'm curious about it as a utility knife/small knife for the wife but haven't seen any reviews of it at all.
Thanks for the break down, I was actually just looking for comparisons online yesterday!
It's the algorithm... :))))
Thank you for the reviews. I have watched many of your reviews and greatly appreciated your honest opinions. Thank you and keep up those good works.
I LOVE the head to head comparisons from a working chef/home cook where we get to see 'boots on the ground' results as well as a personalized review. You have both shown the ability to remain impartial and balanced, to share your bias if it exists and remain humble throughout. PLEASE keep these coming and PLEASE do one on sub $20.00 "Japanese" steel chefs knives we find on eBay and Amazon. Yes, I know, I should crawl back into my hole... but sometimes these knives are gems in the rough! Thank you Ricky, you ROCK!!
those "Japanese steel" knives on amazon and ebay are really communist CHINESE knives almost always of mediocre quality.
they are NOT a replacement for a quality knife. There are TONS of inexpensive quality knives you will see ryky and some of the other commerters talking about.
It is good to be frugal, is is NOT good to be "cheap" You usually don't save money by being cheap, unless you're using it only sparingly like a Harbor Freight tool. If you are going to use it often, buy a quality high 'bang for the buck" item.
And just the way a company advertises should tell you a lot about it. If they are advertising in an unethical way, is that a company you want to put your trust in?
@@hrhamada1982, I disagree. I have one that was purchased at the market and it out performs our US made knives hands down. Better edge, lasts longer, whats not to love? Don't be a hater....
@@spamento yes, the laws of physics cease when they enter your kitchen.
I'm not a hater of vickies. I've still probably got a dozen of them. It's my primary BBQ knives. They're the #1 knives used by butchers.
I just happen to have had more than 30 years in a real working kitchen, so I know when people have mistaken ideas.
And, if you like vickies, wait till you try a messermeister, a FDick, a Wusthof, a Henckels, a Mercer, a Schmidt Brothers, or any number of other german steel knives, much less a knife by a good maker in VG10, Shirogami, aogami, 52100, s35vn, bd1n, d2, etc, etc, etc
I would like to hear your take on Chinese Chef knives, comparisons. I am currently using a Mercer cck, which I like alot.
I own 2 Messer's. Meridian elite..had a buddy put a custom Edge on it so it's more of a chopper, and the Oliva ellie which is flawless for everything up until heavy duty
This is a great breakdown, also quite timely as I was just looking at both of these.
in the same category, look at messermeister park plaza, mercer genesis, mercer millenia, dexter sani safe, dexter icut pro, wusthof pro, FDick ergogrip, FDick sterigrip, FDick mastergrip
Got a whole set of Victornox classics from C&M for a family member at Christmas, very sharp and a great value. Shame they already nicked up the edges on the 5" chef.
the good thing about them is they are SUPER easy to repair.
Last week I have purchased the Victorinox Fibrox 8" just for the purpose of testing what is the best knife under 30 Euros. I have to say Victorinox is excellent for that price. Tescoma Azza or the Ikea 365+ don't come even close to this one in the same price range.
Yeah, I like the general profile of the Ikea 365+, but that steel is such a pain to sharpen! The victorinox definitely sharpens much more easily.
Imagine if you tried a dexter icut pro or a mercer genesis at about the same price range. you'd be blown away
Just got this same Messermiester 5025-8 today, I wish I had it back in the day when I used to work in the kitchens.
I bought the messermeister 4 season student set almost 15 years ago. I still have them, but I'm in the process of replacing them.
15 years ago? wow
I have the Victorinox classic. Ryky is totally correct when he says that the knife feels like it needs to be sharpened about once a week. When it was my primary knife that is exactly what I did. These days I use it as a beater when I don't want to worry about using a good knife.
yes, a working cook needs to sharpen it daily and hone it a dozen or more times a day. That means about once a week for a home cook and honing once a day minimum
Could you test the Tojiro 2 rivet DP Santoku? Around $32, VG10 core, so, I think it will out perform the 2 knives in the video.
An even cheaper alternative that I love are Old Hickory knives. They come as dull as a box of rocks but once you get it sharp, look out.
I agree, I have two vintage old hickory knives an 8 inch and a 12 inch butcher.. When sharp, they are beasts. I also have a fibrox, a mad shark and a cutco as my low end everyday knives and a Zwilling Pro S just because someone once told me I had to own one if I considered myself a respectable cook (lol) Out the box, the Fibrox is sharpest. but my old hickory carbon steel knives can be sharpened easier and I feel invincible with them, especially the 12 inch butcher. I use it when grilling outside... the damn thing makes me feel invincible.
I'm a new sub just watched this vid because I've owned the 10" Victorinox chef knife for 5+ yrs,I'm interested in your opinion on I used the Chef choice model130 sharpener for 20deg knives for a few yrs on all my knives(chicago,messermeister,etc)I then bought the Chefs Choice Razor(for15deg knives)I converted all my knives to 15deg and found them sharper,edge lasted longer,and most of the time just used the stropping slot to get them sharper again.What say you?
As a gift I received an Imarku 8" chef knife, I'm not sure of the exact price, but I know it's very budget friendly
@Lesgo Brandon it was chosen as a gift because I had wanted a knife that I could practice sharpening on and wouldn't feel completely awful about messing up, if that were to happen
@Lesgo Brandon I got my dad the renaissance the same year I got my knife as a gift
@Lesgo Brandon indeed he does
Mercer is the knife that should have been included in this review.
Beats both hands down especially the genesis series if you consider cost and quality.
AGREE!!!!!!!!!
Especially the Genesis or renaissance. FORGED instead of stamped and about the same price point
Or Wusthof Pro if you want stamped
Mercers and Wusthof pro blow the victorinox away for people who actually cook, not just watch cooking on TV
I picked up a Mercer and I must say I have been impressed. The spine was sharp af but I took care of that and have been enjoying it ever since.
Is there a chef knife you would recommend that's under 100 dollars and has a high heat treatment above 60??? Thank you!
Here in Italy we have " sanelli " for the same price , try them out ✌️✌️
@Alex Mason Yeah, there are 2 different factories making Sanelli.
I think they are 2 brothers .
One with green handle and one black.
I prefer marietti. Why do you like sanelli?
@@CrowbarXOX Never tried marietti
@@dimmacommunication
Gentilissimo Sig. Andrea, Okay then. You mentioned green and black, what do you recommend and why? I'm searching all the European knife manufacturers, I would like to try what you mentioned.
La ringrazio per l'aiuto nella risoluzione di questa questione.
@@CrowbarXOX I've seen only now yout question, sorry If I respond only now.
Sanelli knives are good quality and very good for the price.
Also victorinox are good, similar steel but I prefer sanelli handle.
I don't like Victorinox classic but if it is in an environment other than my kitchen I will grab that one, Victorinox fibrox is my favourite handle I rarely sharpen them, literally I also have their sharpening tool, I use plastic chopping boards to preserve their sharpness, I still cut onions and no crying that sharp they stay
I have the victorinox knives, but mostly with the swibo handles. They are a small step up in price but make the grip incredible. I would love to see a comparison video with the swibo line. Just a note the swibo knives were originally made by wenger I believe. But they are now from victorinox.
The Victorinox is ugly out loud, but it's a great knife.
What do u think about misen?? Was gonna pull the trigger till i saw this brand
When I buy a pencil I only want a brand that comes sharpened and retains permanent edge retention. I don't want to resharpen a pencil - no way.
may i introduce you to the concept of a mechanical pencil..
Lol this guy...
Ricky,
Just discovered your channel while trying to find a sincere enthusiast that is mature and insightful about knives. Subscribed! But I notice a lot of interesting knives you profile are internet order only.
For the home user/enthusiast, how do you recommend we audition/choose/purchase knives we can’t hold in our hands? The only real knife shop I have in my town is a Williams-Sonoma. So Wustoff or Shun. I’m interested in cutlery and more but i don’t want to buy and be stuck with the wrong knife for me. Enso looks cool but there’s no way to hold one before purchasing.
I own two victorinox knifes which are both 6-inch long, one with the swiss classic grip and the other one with the fibrox grip.
While i believe you that the swiss classic grip may feel better on the 8-inch knife, it is a complete disaster on the 6-inch version.
The 6-inch blade having considerably less height there is no way you can use the belly of the blade without your knuckles hitting the board first, using the swiss classic handle.
The fibrox handle improves it by slightly being angled upwards, allowing your fingers to fit under the handle.
Just something to look out for when buying the 6-inch version.
Apart from that i think they are amazing soft-steel knives and most criticism actually comes from them being made out of soft steel because they get compared to hard-steel knives a lot.
I can confirm the 1-2 weeks kitchen use sharpness, but because they are made out of soft steel, they resharpen in about 2 minutes after that, basically only requiring 20 alternating back strokes on a rozsutec stone (which is somewhere around 5000-8000 grit).
It also seems to be pretty unbreakeable as i have smacked it into duck bones, had friends drop it on the ground and had a flat mate run it through the dishwasher without chipping or rusting it.
The victorinox knives are also the only knives i know that actually feel like plastic when you run your fingernails over the sides of the blade. Try it and you will know what i'm talking about, the surface is so smooth.
I've never used the 6 inch classic or fiberox, but I HIGHLY liked your post.
YES, knife designs are different based on different lengths and the ergonomics vary as well. While in theory a designer takes ergonomics into play, that does not mean they have equal usability. The longer a knife is, means less force doing one task at a certain place, and more force doing another because of leverage and ergonomics.
Also as you pointed out knuckle clearance, "sweet spot" vary. And a tall person with small hands, would best be served by a different knife than one with big hands or a a short person with big or small hands. ERGONOMINS and style matter!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHTFUL POST that mentions things most of us don't consider!!!!!
And yes, soft steel is not necessarily better OR worse than hard steel. It depends on the task you are doing. Hard steel for one task. Soft for another!
Yes, they're practically indstructable, that's why they were (and still are) often used in many working kitchens. There IS a beneft to soft steel. That's why german steel is used for the company knives.
And while I hate ANY knife going through a dishwasher, of course they're not going to rust, they're stainless (rust proof).
Can you review the Imarku chef knife sold on Amazon? Thanks
So many brands to review ... but I really believe you should compare the Victorinox and Messermeister (Burgvogel) to the Friedrich Dick ProDynamic. Like Victorinox, Friedrich Dick is a brand mainly in use by professionals in the meat processing industry.
I've used the Victorinox Fibrox 8" for the last 3 years at home and with a honing rod I go on for several months before needing to sharpen it. I picked it up online for $32 and just overall a great value. Now I mainly use a Japanese gyuto and reserve the Victorinox harder items or if certain meats have bones. Or if I feel extremely lazy in trying to keep the gyuto clean. The Victorinox is easy to sharpen on stones and have used it well for practice.
several months before you needed to sharpen it?
Then either it most sit in the drawer, or you don't know what sharp is. An average home cook should sharpen a knife of that quality once every two weeks or so
that is a great strategy!
I highly recommend people that use a Japanese knife, ALSO keep a german steel knife
in terms of comparing $30 Messermeister vs $40 Mercer (Mercer Renaissance Chef), is the Mercer an obvious choice?
Burrfection has good reviews on these 2 knives, and I am torn between choosing one.
Can someone advise? Thanks!
I imagine you bought your knife by now. : ) But for anyone else looking at these knives, the steel in what I assume is the Messermeister "Four Seasons" is roughly comparable to Mercer's X50, and I believe they both have a factory bevel of 15 degrees. The Mercer is forged, with a more traditional handle shape, compared to the stamped Messermeister with the more modern handle. I have the Mercer and love it, but I like old-school stuff. Mercers are made very well and so is my Messermeister Oliva Elite, although I have no experience with this model here. It gets into your preference in the end. For all the measurable stuff they're both dandy knives.
Damn you are a good reviewer!
What about Mercer Culinary Millennia and a Kiwi chef knife (I like the 211 bunka style)
I am in eastern Europe and Pirge is a popular Turkish brand here. I use it alongside my Victorinox and think the Pirge Chef knife is better
I haven't tried a Pirge, but it's NOT hard to be better than a Victorinox fiberox. ATK just posted a laugably stupid review and everyone that doesn't have the guts to say "the emperor is wearing no clothes" just caved in.
I wish youtube had the ability to post pics, but I'll google it! thanks, Always trying to learn, even at my age and level of experience.
I bought a Victorinox with wooden handles and air gaps in the blade. Love it! Super low angle on the grind tho, so I've only tried to polish the edge slightly to find the angle before I need to sharpen it for real :D
I bought the Victorinox with the express purpose of building my sharpening skills. Don't want to practice on a $150+ knife. Actually I got a excellent edge on the knife. I still prefer my Misono or Wustof knives but if you're on a budget, the Victorinox will serve you well.
keep the angle on your victorinox. It is too soft to take a steep angle. The edge will just roll over and you will need to hone much more.
I'd go 15-17 at the most and I'd think about 17 would be a good place to be
Ricky you have have have to check into the spiderco chef knife American company made in Japan vg10 7 inch blade it is a very compelling knife!!I would love to know what you think about it.
I personally own several spyderco knives and think highly of the company. VG10 IS a great steel for a chefs knife. I have not tried a spyderco chefs yet.
But for 200 bucks you can get far better knives made of better steel. You can even get a Miyabi Artisan or Mizu for 150 made of SG2 core or a Tojiro for 130 with an SG2 core, made by Japanese companies with a long history of kitchen knives and used by working professionals. (I'm sure the spyderco is made in china. It will probably be the only chefs knife coming out of china in vg10 because spyderco is one of the very few allowed to use vg10)
I'd say at 75-130, it would be a good buy,, but not at 200
For me knife shape is most important im currently looking for an usuba basically a single bevel veggy cleaver But its hard to find under 100 bucks where i live
I like the review. I hope you would also compare them with Wusthof Pro.
Hello ricky, I have seen several videos of your channel, but I have never seen a sharpening tutorial or talk about the Global Knife brand ... this is for something in particular or does not fit into the theme of high quality or premium knives ?
Greetings from Chile!!!
Yes, Global IS a premium, high quality knife. Global are objectively great knives. Solidly built, well designed. they have a superb reputation with working pros. They are easy to sharpen, they take a better edge than German steel and keep that edge longer.
BUT they have a very distinctive style handle that people either love or hate. Also, being all steel, they tend to amplify heat and cold. The handles also tend to "deaden" the "feel" of the knife.
I highly recommend you try one for at least a few hours before you buy. But I CAN wholeheartedly recommend them IF you have actual use with one and like the handle.
They're nothing special you have to know about sharpening a global vs another knife. They're shaped very "modern" but you use the same technique. The steel is easy to sharpen.
Question
Hi i love your videos . My question is that can you sharpen a knife on abrasive sheet ???
yes, ryky even made some plates with abrasive sheets.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the Mercer Asian collection knives.
They have two series of Asian knives, one very utilitarian one more upscale with better steel.
I have kept one of their utilitarian debas. It's a tank, I've really abused it and it's kept on going, and going, and going. But it's certainly no finesse knife.
not as impressed by the VG10 series in general as I am by their millenia, renaisance or genesis. The design is good, the build is good.
But at that price, you could get a isseya, or especially a yaxell mon, yaxell tschuimon, or a tojiro DP.
Did you hand sharpen the 2 knives to see the difference after hand sharpening? Thanks
I appreciate the budget knife perspective. Thanks.
Are there any "good" knives that can stand being put in the dish washer? Yes, I know heresy. My household cooks a lot and puts everything in the dishwasher. If it can't survive the dishwasher, it's trashed in short order. I'd hate to be stuck with low end knives because the handle can't take the heat.
I think he or someone else made a video about this, but yes, the Victornox (sp) can.
For most people with nice knives, it's not the handle which is the issue (and I think the fibrix would be ok), it's the blade. Repeated dishwasher-ing degrades the edge, albeit at a very fine level and will continually downgrade the edge. If you want one to put in the dishwasher, then one like this which is stainless steel is better (Carbon steel rusts very easily, this doesn't), but all blades will suffer more quickly and loose that nice edge more quickly. Of course, you can sharpen them...
@@jamessparrow1556 I guess I find that even more confusing. How could stainless steel have a problem with a dishwasher? That's the poi t of stainless, isn't it? I'm mean what could actually do damage to the steel? It's the handle that matters. Isn't it? Is the San Moritz Elite up to the task of daily dish washings since it has a POM handle? That line actually looks like nice knives. Is it or is it just another plastic knife? Seems I shouldn't be alone in thinking I should be able to wash my knives in the dish washer, but, I cant find any reviews of knives other then Wustovs as the "best knife of 2020." Why is the dish washer so discriminated?
@@dholshouser
Hi David,
Stainless steel knives will deal with it much better, and I know a lot of people do put their knives in, particuarly the small one. Reading about it again, to ensure I'm not just misremembering, the key things are..
1) The chemicals used are very corrosive and can have an accumulative affect on the very fine edge of the blade. Depending on how sharp you keep it you may not notice, but everything suggests it will damage the edge slowly. Regular cutlery doesn't have such a fine edge of course.
2) Things like knives get banged around in the dishwasher under the high pressure jets, which again can damage the edge. I've not had a dishwasher with a cutlery tray that would hold them securely though and they have to go loose on the top shelf racks, so perhaps there are ways to avoid it.
3) I've read some suggestion that the heat could cause warping of the blade, though I'm rather sceptical about this, especially with a stainless steel blade.
Victorinox are known as good commercial kitchen knives as they can take damage and be resharpened easily. They're relatively softer steel and so less brittle etc, and the fibrox handles are fairly bombproof. It's entirely your choice, please don't feel I'm telling you what to do. :)
Question: will you do a comparison of the MD100 and MD400 against the almighty chosera 800 and 3000 combo? I want the extra real estate of he MD line, but I don't know if it has the chops to stand next to the venerated chosera combo. Also, is there anything wrong with the chosera 2K?
love the videos, thanks for sharing and taking the time!
I don't understand your question at all. The 100 and 400 grid have a different use case than 800 and 3000.
@@nowonmetube I meant the MD-100 1000 grit and MD-400 4000 grit. As I understand it, they would have the same use scenario and case
@@nowonmetube the Suehiro MD line that is the 20, 100 and 400, or 200 grit, 1000, and 4000 grits
I love my Victorinox! All the haters can hate! I use a mechanical sharpener and finish on a cheap whetstone with this and many others! I have many knives, from cheap to expensive, also a staff that I sharpen for.
I have a victorinox I like it but I wish I have a Japanese blade but I will buy me one when all this ends any recommendations on a good Japanese blade not to crazy on the price I have a Japanese knife 🔪 they call Wasabi on Amazon one side sharp
Well done! Thank you.
As a fellow Vic owner said, It is like having a Glock Knife, not to pretty but very reliable..Yes I am an owner of a Swiss Vic.
what brand of the knife you used to peel the pineapple? thanks
Got myself a Victorinox Fibrox, on my trip to Moscow. I live in Russia, actually, so it is not that I had much of a choice: even where I reside (Nizhny Novgorod, one of the few 1kk+ cities in Russia) there are no shops where anything like that is even present. Here it is mostly about cheap ~15$ supermarket knives at best, so even such "low-end knives" are almost out of question (the lowest I could find Fibrox at was around... 40$, if I recall correctly).
So, even finding Fibrox was troublesome, as there are close to no Victorinox retailers here, let alone trying out Messermeister (spoiler: there were none) :) So far I am very content with the purchase, and should say that even at this price point it holds its value for money, expecially considering what the alternatives are. Having watched the video, though, I think I picked right, albeit it is still a shame I could not try the other variant.
Cheers from Russia, dear sir, and keep up the great content!
I'm always interested in hearing about what is available in other countries. I used to live in England and Germany and if it wasn't readily available, I could easily order it. Now I live in the USA and the same applies, but I do have a lot wider availability in stores. We also have a lot more blacksmiths and artisans making knives.Not in every town or anything, but there are at least 4-5 within a couple hours of driving. One of them is only 30 minutes away and another sells in a local cutlery store. They are expensive, so I haven't bought one yet.
@@samuelmahoney6878 that is actually quite nice to have. A year ago I did an exchange semester in Germany, and in this sense it was still way better than in Russia (especially considering that, for example, Amazon Prime DOES work there and does not here - and some stuff will simply not pass the customs, even if mailed). So we, the Russians, often have to get by what is available and hone our skills with things at hand, sometimes relying on less fancy equipment :)
Kirill Nikolaev: Have you ever thought about getting into knife making? It sounds like there's potentially a market for them, although I don't know if entrepreneurialism works in Russia??
@Burrfection I browsed your channel trying to find if you have made any videos about sharpening pocket knifes and couldn't find any. Would you consider making a video on how to sharpen pocket knifes, like an $8.00 MTech USA Ballistic MT-A705. Would be very cool to see your thoughts and techniques!
I don't think Ryky is interested in pocket or military type of knives, he prefers kitchen knives.
Most kitchens will use victorinox or Mercer for house knives. They hold egdes poorly, but sharpen quickly
yes, or dexter or wusthof pro, (or the four seasons/park plaza mentioned in the video. ) etc.
They are cheap and reliable. no one cares if they get accidentally thrown out.
Yes, as you and I know, they are NOT meant to be primary use knives. They're meant to be used if someone forgets their roll at home. But that is not what the average home cook thinks, especially after seeing that stupid ATK video
They dont hold their edges poorly.. why do you think they are the top pick for butchers and fishmongers in europe?
@@Andersp90 they can get sharp, very sharp. But they also need sharpening very often, hence holding poor edge.
@@Andersp90 they they are a top pick in the US for butchers too, followed closely by dexter sanidafe.
Yes, they do not old their edge, but thats exactly why they are good for butchers and fishmongers because they are so ductile, they don't chip. Add a very non slip handle and a flexible blade and it's perfect for them.
It also used to be the "house" knives (owned by the company) of choice because they were cheap and reliable. But victorinox is very quickly being supplanted by dexter and wusthof pro in the US. Victorinox has not improved over the years and Wusthof has aimed squarely at the same demographic and beat victorinox. Similar steel but hardened higher, steeper edge bevel, keeps an edge better, but is still ductile, better wrist to board ergonomics, better sweet spot, better hadle shape, better handle material, antibacterial, less fatiguing, etc.
But like the victorinox, a few quick swipes with a honing steel and you're good enough to last an hour.
However,
The needs of a butcher fish monger are opposite that of a home cook or a working cook. A working cook wants a knife that takes a better edge and holds that edge. We do NOT want a "floppy" knife.
We want a comfortable handle, We want a less fatiguing ergonomics, we aren't nearly as worried about non slip, and IF we are doing meat fabrication, we WILL bring out the victorinox or the dexter.
Just because we use better quality knives 90% of the time does NOT mean we don't keep a german steel knife in our roll at all times.
And just because a knife is good for one job, does NOT mean it is good for a different job.
I have the victorinox boning knife. I love it. I use it for everything since I have yet to purchase a quality chef's knife. It has stayed relatively sharp for me for quite some time.
A working cook would need to sharpen a knife of that quality once a day and hone it a dozen or more times a day. That translates to maybe sharpening once a month and honing once a day MINIMUM.
You probably don't know what sharp is anymore. But they DO make an excellent boning knife if only a mediocre to poor chefs knife. It's weakness as a chef knife are a strngth as a boning knife.
I would HIGHLY recommend you think twice about a victorinox chef knife unless you're a butcher, fish monger or you're using it for BBQ. But it would be one of my first choices for those activilites.
Ask a real working cook, don't just watch the stupid ATK video review.
@@hrhamada1982 I know how to sharpen a knife bud. When I do decide to sharpen my knives will pop hair. But in a home kitchen you shouldnt be destroying your edge unless you dont know how to use a knife. Like I said though I'm excited to purchase quality steel.
Like your opinion on clevers around $100.00
I use 8 in. Victonox fibrox as work horse... and 8 in. Takamura R2... as F1 car.
I've been looking at the All Purpose knife from Dexter Russell's Duoglide line. It's right in this price point, and I'd love to see a comparison. I bought the smaller utility knife, and while I had to tune up the factory edge, it holds an edge fine and the grip is truly wonderful. I don't have arthritis or anything, but it's a non-skid grip that fills the hand nicely and the little guy is why I want the larger version. Sadly, I've seen almost nothing on the knife aside from an infomercial style advert.
neither are 30$ unless you go smaller. it looks like 8"chef knife is what was shown.
around BlackFriday they always have the Victorinox for about $25
We've had that Fibrox for over 3 years now, and I've worked with/sharpened my share of kitchen knives. I can't find a better value than the Victorinox. Edge retention is more than acceptable, on par with the carbon steels I'm used to, and it touches up easily. I've used a few Cutcos and though they seem a tad "sturdier" than the Fibrox (the Fibrox is not flimsy at all) they don't sharpen or cut any better.
in NO way is a german steel "on par with carbon steel" but I do agree it's a great value and easy to touch up.
Cutco does NOT belong in even a gourmet home cook's kitchen. Just give it to goodwill or sell it on craigslist. get rid of it. it is utter JUNK.
the reason why crudco seems sturdier is because it is thicker stock, and because it is forged not stamped. I have a HIGH preference for a forged knife, but not if it is crudco.
You can buy hamilton forge, farberware, and other brands from the grocery store or Walmart from the same steel that a crudco is made of.
I understand that we all have relatives of friends that guilt us into a demo and guilt us into buying one, but really you'd be batter off with a Hampton forge or an oxo and certainly better off with your Victorinox.
If you're a follower of ryky's you know that while I HATE the ATK video, I don't think Victorinox is bad just that it isn't as good as ATK claims, and there are better things at the same price. But you will NEVER hear a working cook say anything even halfway nice about crudco.
you should also look into other great inexpensive knives like schmit bros, mercer, dexter, nexus etc, etc, etc
victorinox fibrox the best!!!!!
Cool, still need to replace my boning knife for meat cutting... always resharpening
"german steel" IS a good choice for a boning knife, but I'd highly recommend using FORGED instead of stamped
irrelevant
have you ever checked out one of the dexter russell knives?
yeah the dexter sani-safe is a good competitor to the fiberox and the icut pro blows the victorinox away. FORGED instead of stamped, comfortable handle and stays sharper longer
Please try Berndorf-Sandrik (santoku, etc..)Thx love your vids!
we really don't get those here in the states. Wusthof, Henckels, FDick and Messermeister are the big european names for kitchen knives here in the states. I don't even know if they have US distribution.
I worked with a Russian guy named Arkady that had a chefs knife of theirs. Not bad, not great. I'd say it would make a good workhorse, but not a knife for fine dining like I worked.
I probably would not recommend them over a Wusthof, Henckels or Messermeister, but it all depends on what is availible to you in your country.
Messermeister victorinox or mercer?.....
What s the angle on vitorinox , 20 or 15 ? I have seen both.Thank you
Depends on which model and which year it came out.
Id reprofile either to 17 for most people. Its so soft that 15 degrees rolls over too quickly and you have to hone much more often
Hey Ryky, I would love to see a comparison between Messermeister's Meridian Elite 8", Wustof's Classic 8", and Zwilling's Gourmet 8" chef knives. I personally own the Messermeister, and I think it's a beauty to use and to see, but I would love to see a comparison between it and the big 2 German brands.
Seeing a Yoshihiro on your channel would be cool, too. I have one and I've heard they're the Japanese equivalent to Messermeister; very well reputed, sometimes better than mainstream competition, but not as known globally. Thanks!
yes, I'd love a head to head of those three.
As far as yoshihiro. they hake about 20 or so complete lines, not just one. They are a retailer, not a mfgr. they OEM many knives. ALL of which are excellent values for the dollar. ALL are "harder" than a messermeister (harder is not necessisarily always better). they don't even make "soft" knives.
I can heartedly recommend just about anything Yoshi sells. I've got dozens of hours on maybe 6-7 makes of their knives and I own a NSW.
and BTW The gourmet series is a consumer line of stamped blades. Wusthof classic/Messermeister Merisdian/San Moritz would be comparable to a Henckes ProS or 4 star.
But missed the point of carbon knives completely: carbon knives are way easier to resharpen and hone. And sharpness out of the box is no reference what so ever.
I wish I saw this video instead of America's test kitchen
wusthof pro?
great cheap knife. It blows away the fiberox. better blade shape. Similar steel but hardened to a higher rockwell (holds edge longer) but just as easy to sharpen same abrasion resistance). Less flex (not as floppy, but it's still a "stamped knife" even though it's laser cut). Steeper out of the box bevel, (but bevel is NOT a sign it's better)
More ergonomic handle to board angle (for your wrist). Better handle material very comfortable. Antibacterial (fiberox is not). Better handle shape.
It is one of the knives that is replacing the Victorinox as a "house knife" (owned by the company) in working kitchens because it's higher quality and cheaper.
@Lesgo Brandon wusthof pro is about the same price as a victorinox. 30-40 bucks.
In fact, the Wusthof pro is rapidly replacing victorinox as the "in house" knife (owned by the company, not by the cook) in many retaurants. Better design, better handle material, more ergonomic, antibacterial, etc.
A knife does not need to be expensive to be good.
And inexpensive can be an asset, especially for what a victorinox, mercer millenia, dexter sani safe, dexter vlo, wusthof pro is specifically designed for.
But "cheap" is just "cheap" and Cheap can actually be expensive (look at kamikoto , coolina, or dalstrong for example).
I appreciate your approach to comparing these knives, and for what they are they are solid choices for the average home cook. I own a 10' Victornox and have been more than pleased with it's performance. Nearly every European kitchen knife maker uses 1.411, even in the high end Henckels and Wusthof offering's. the problem with this particular steel is that in order to try to get more performance out of it they oftentimes cryogenically treat it. I have found in my experience that this steel hardened to a higher HRC results in a blade prone to chipping in anything but fine slicing.
it may be a truism that in general the harder the steel, the less ductile it is.
As far asusing 4116 steel, yes, it is true that many use it, but the heat treat, the temper, the blade geometry, including the spine thickness and distal taper matter.
And as ryky pointed out, vickies are 'floppy" because of their thin spine thickness and lack of distal taper especially in long lengths. If you like your 10 inch fiberox, imagine what a wusthof pro or a messermeister would do for your slicing. Or better yet, a dexter icot pro or a mercer genesis/rennasance
With these knives. You are really not supposed to use whetstones which aim for super sharp edges and least metal loss. Softer steel would lose that super sharp edge in few moments anyways. Just basic two stage automatic sharpener is enough, and it takes no time at all. So you should not have any problem keeping these sharp.
Overall, these knives are supposed to be sharpened often. And it should only take few seconds to do it.
Hey 👋🏻, i m from Morocco, you can’t to shipping me???
I prep about 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week with this Victorinox, and a honmamon 9.5 gyuto. the victorinox is a knife i never worry about chipping or breaking unlike my gyuto knife. but my gyuto is much sharper(i sharpen my own knives once a month). i highly suggest the victorinox over the messermeister as a coworker of mine has one and he ended up buying the victorinox.
only two types of knives pros use Victorinox or global well in the west and any they can nick ;) its a chef thing unless your names on it its fair game
Do a review on Mora's "Frost" line
WAY overpriced. I like their steel better, but it's still only a stamped knife.
Victorinox Fibrox is one of those knives where you might have to pay 20x more to get a better knife.
this will solve all of your knife problems burrfectionstore.com/
Haircut is sharp ! 😘🚀🏋🏼
Hi Ricky I have given the victorinox chefs knife as a gift several times to friends and for the most part they have been happy with the blade I have there boning knife and find the fribrox handle comfortable for my large hands . Regards Dean from Oz
NSF is simply something that's paid for; it means almost nothing. Thinner spine or thinness prevents breaking vs cutting on hard veg. Edge retention is mostly about edge angles; not the steel. Harder knives can generally hold more acute edge angles better (which is why it's preferable). I would like to watch a Mercer vs Victorinox video.
yes, they PAY for the NSF certification, but that certification is for a reason.
THICKER, not thinner would prevent breakage. I think you probably just had a typo.
I agree, Edge retention DOES have something to do with angles as, you say. Too steep an edge bevel would tend to roll over or tend to chip. Too extreme is NOT good despite what some people think.
However hardness DOES matter, as well as SHAPE. The same exact shape with a harder steel will have higher edge retention, however the same steel hardened to the same rockwll will have different scores on a catra test. YES, I agree with you design matters
Mercer genesis or renaissance are FORGED knives and forged knives will always have an advantage in a carta test because of flex. The mercers are also hardened to a higher rate and come with a better out of box bevel, but OOTB sharpness means nothing after one day with german steel.
Millenia is like fiberox it is stamped. I like the steel of victorinox better than the millenia, but I like the shape, ergonomics, handle, sweet spot, , etc of the millenia better. If you get a chance, you should check out wusthof pro as a cheap stamped knife.
Nice video as always. I own a Shun classic and just picked up couple of Victorinox Fibrox. Isharpen my own knives, What angle would you sharpen the Shun and the Victotinox?
Thank you in advance.
really that is a function of personal preference. since the Shun is harder steel, it will retain an edge at a steeper angle than the victorinox. I am a home cook so really edge retention isnt a big deal to me. I tend to sharpen at steeper angles because I like the performance in the short term. Now, I don't know exactly what angles I sharpen at, but my harder knives (60+), I tend to do around 10 degrees. My softer knives, I tend to do around 15. My Miyabi tends to be closer to 15 since I haven't reset the bevel. The only knife I sharpen close to 20 degrees is a cleaver.
Thank you very much for responding, very helpful. Keep up the great content. Cheers
it is a matter of preference within reason, but 4116 steel will not really hold even a 15 degree edge well, it rolls over too easy, but if you hone OFTEN, you'll be fine. The steeper the angle the MORE you need to hone not less. 17-19 is better for most people.
As far as your shun, VGmax can hold a 11 degree edge, but the steeper the profile, the more likely you are to chip it. Having a better knife is like having a better car, it means MORE skill and discipline is needed, not less. If you are an advanced home gourmet cook or a working cook, I'd keep the shun at 12-15. If you are just average cook, I'd keep it at 15
The more experienced and more disciplined you are, the steeper the bevel you can use assuming the steel can support it
A steeper edge is NOT automatically better any more than harder steel is not automatically better. It depends on the user and the type of product youre cutting
Any one know the bevel angler these two? 20 degrees?
I think Vic is 15 degrees
I think Vic is 15 degrees
Pretty sure the Vic is 17*
@@CLINT-THE-GREAT they're 15 degrees.. For those to know where it matters for. Doesn't when you start using whetstones
I seen a good deal on a Mac Damascus knife and I was wondering how good of a knife those are, I have Miyabi birchwoods and a couple miyabi blacks but I am not sure on Mac. Any thoughts?
Miyabi birchwood is sg2. Mac damascus is vg10. The biggest difference will be cutting style. The. Mac is very french
Eh, maybe I will skip the Mac, it is probably fine but I like my birchwoods pretty well. I would rather pay more for a better experience. Thank you for the information. What is your brand and model preference for knives?
@@theunchartedtrucker1113The MAC is SUPERB for a push/pull cutter. The Miyabi birchwood is a bit more versatile for people that do both rocking and push/pull.
While I'd rate the MAC as a solid 9 out of 10 on the objective scale, it's all in your body ergonomics and your cutting style
and the birchwood is ALSO a solid 9 out of 10 also! I don't own a birchwood, but ive got quite a few Artisans (not as gorgeous as yours, but great for a value for the dollar guy like me) but of course I've got a few weeks with one.
Enjoy your birchwood!!!!!! ( but the mac is great, too) I actually don't have a MAC Damascus, but I've got a MAC pro, but I think very highly of the company.
I got a Yu Kurasaki Bunka! Blue steal hammered 180 mm ... Insane! You have to try one!