I was at a pub in Oxford England in 1994. I was on holiday in the Cotswolds and had decided to have a pub lunch, I noticed a man probably in his late 60s early 70s stood at the bar with his wife, as I approached him I could see he wore a leather jacket with a very ornate insignia on the back, when they came to the table next to me and the wife, i asked him if it was an American squadron insignia, he told me it was and he was a Bombardier in a flying fort, we started a good conversation, he was here in the UK for a squadron reunion he told me I tried to buy them a drink but he declined as he said they weren't big drinkers, as he got up to leave i said to him may I thank you and you're mates for fighting by our side, do you know he said You're the first Brit said that to me and we laughed, but inside I was really happy that the extremely rare opportunity had come my way to thank an American serviceman
My grandfather piloted one of these. Signed up well before the war. In artillery (Corporal) just like his dad in WW1. Army did massive service wide tests for potential pilots. Old boy got his 25 missions in over Germany. No escorts. Never had much to say about it. Spent more than 40 years in Army/Air Corps/Air Force. Retired in '81. Truly the greatest generation. Endured his father serving in WWI, the Great Depression, WW2, Korean War, his kids in Vietnam, grandkids in Gulf War and other hot spots. Died at 88 years old in 2001 just before 911 attacks. I'm grateful he didn't have to witness more turmoil. Sure miss him.
Sometimes I think we should bring back the draft, or public service, just to show how teamwork and patriotism could work again! But I’m relieved that our wars aren’t fought by infantry. However it was infantry and thousands of servicemen that showed Europe some American morality and gained almost 70 years of peace. Our country has become selfish.
@@richarddietzen3137 Actually it is the infantry that does the fighting with support of air power. Boots on the ground is a must. Ask any Grunt or General from every war or contingency. I understand where your coming from on patriotic duty but volunteers gives us a better military because they want to be there. Draftees are less likely to have the heart for it. Earlier generations saw it as their duty to country. Even Hollywood and professional athletes would quip, 'Sure, I'll be a private in this man's Army!' I agree completely that this nation takes our freedoms for granted. It's why we are losing them...free speech, freedom to assemble, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Americans need to celebrate what's good and right about our country and correct and improve our misteps. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is no solution.
A family friend was a Bombardier/Navigator on a B-17 in the later years of the war. He told us his pilot taught every man on his crew how to fly it. Not how to land or take off, but to at least keep it in the air for as long as possible. The idea was to get the plane back over friendly lines before bailing out. The idea was if they had seriously wounded they would patch them up as best they could and made sure they would clear the plane under a canopy. One other thing he would do was show them on a map all air strips in Western Europe that were in friendly hands in case they needed, and were able, to land before getting back to base. On one mission they were shot up pretty badly. The pilot and co-pilot were killed and several crewmen badly wounded. His wounds were not as bad as most on board. He took the pilot’s seat and headed home, but the plane was too shot up to make it. He thus headed for an air strip that was in German hands when they left but they knew GI’s were heading that way. Hopefully, the air strip would be in friendly hands when they got there. When he got close to the strip and lined up to the runway he tried to lower the wheels. They didn’t go down. So they prepped for a belly landing. Just before landing he noticed tracers going both east and west down the runway. The Germans were on the east side. The Americans on the west. As soon as he was in range all parties stopped shooting. As he passed over German lines he could see several men look up at him. No one fired. He belly whopped and slide to the far end of the runway and off into the grass. Guys came out to get everyone out of the plane. As soon as the last man was cleared everyone went back to shooting at each other. It was his last mission. Strange things happen in war sometimes.
My dad was a radio man on a B-17 in 1943 in the 8th AF. Flew 7 missions before flak shrapnel took his right eye. Finished as a Sgt, training other radio men in the USA. Went on to get engineering degree(GI Bill) and worked for NASA. They were the Greatest Generation.
My great grandfather did the same thing, including training radio operators in North Carolina(I believe). If your dad had any stories about “Curly” Smith he was talking about my great grandfather.
he was probably a Technical sargent...they got paid more lol...my grampa was an airborne engineer and was discharged at the same rank...the war really messed him up..
My dad was also a B-17 radio operator. Once during a bombing run he turned away from his radio to throw out foil chaff (to throw off the AA guns on the ground) and when he turned back there was a flak shrapnel hole passing right through the plane at that location. Another time alone in the radio room during the long flight his oxygen hose froze up, but he was writing and recognized the lack of coordination before passing out, and was able to fix his hose. And another flight they lost 2 engines and had to throw out the guns etc. and after they landed the mechanics said a 3rd engine would have failed in another 5 or 10 minutes, due to an oil leak... over 100 holes in the plane, but nobody wounded. After 35 missions my dad got out and went back to Michigan Tech, switched from chemistry and got a degree in electrical engineering, worked as a civilian for the Army near Detroit and helped design the M1 Abrams tank. He was literally born in a log cabin in Upper Michigan, literally walked a mile each way to school through the woods, and grew up chopping firewood, milking cows, feeding chickens, etc. during the Great Depression and had only 3 people total in his high school graduating class. And he is still alive now, 100 years old.
My father was a B-17 pilot out of southern England. He flew 36 combat missions mostly over Germany, with the 8th Air Force, in a bomb group called The Fightin' Bitin'. I can't remember if it was his plane, or another, but he said after returning home from a mission they counted the holes the "B one seven" had sustained from flak (anti aircraft shrapnel), and maybe machine gun fire from German fighter planes. The total: some 200 holes of various size in a single plane. Maybe that was more than usual, or normal, I don't know, because my dad never talked about combat. But he did describe once how chunks of shrapnel from the flak would shoot through the plane, in one side, out the other (the size of a silver dollar or a softball, he said, when I asked), and how it pinned the bombardier's map to the top of the plane. God knows what else, or who else, it ripped through that he wouldn't talk about. From reactions my dad had later in life to blood, I could read between the lines. Airmen got torn to shreds in those B-17s by flak, machine gun fire, and nose canons from the ME-109s. The surviving crew then had to fly home for several hours with the dead and wounded close to them, as it was fairly tight in those planes. There had to be a lot of blood, and fellow airmen, buddies even, with their insides spilling out. It had to be awful. And Hitler had reportedly placed 6,000 big anti aircraft guns around Berlin hurling continuous volleys of flak into the B-17 raids. My uncle, a waist gunner, said it was absolutely terrifying, especially if you were the pilot or co pilot, because they could see straight-on the whole hellish mess they were flying into, and maybe not coming out of. Undoubtedly, an unfolding nightmare. Imagine three dozens such missions, and something like 39% of the planes lost- but we can't, because we didn't go through that. Right after his tour, my dad went someplace in Florida where apparently they sent airmen for r&r. I only know that because there was a photo of him with palm trees, and I asked my mother. Maybe it was normal for airmen to be sent there, I still don't know. I think it was only for a week or two, a place to collect yourself and rest. PTSD wasn't heard of back then, if that's what that was about, but I have thought maybe it was. My dad was awarded several medals, like most of those guys, he said. He never even took possession of them until two years before he passed away in 2002, asking me if I wanted them. He kind of rejected the very thought of those medals, because, he said, he only did what everybody else did. One of those medals was the Distinguished Flying Cross, with a descriptive citation of an ordeal he flew through getting his crew back home, limping along on one engine, or something, I forget, landing in a farmer's field. He dismissed that event, and the medal, saying that mission didn't even compare to various other snafu's they flew through, and survived, but that nobody knew about except he and his crew. After the war, I should add, my father had no desire to fly a plane. He never flew again. (These men fought for our freedom. Four hundred thousand of them fought and died in WW ll alone. Now, more than ever, it is we who must fight to preserve that freedom, as America faces being destroyed from within.)
The "Fightin' Bitin'" I believe was the 369th squadron of the 306th bomb group, it could've been the 367th sq. but either way it was the 306th BG in Thurliegh. The 306th BG encompassed the 367th, 368th, 369th and 423rd squadrons. My dad was a navigator in the 368th squadron. The 306BG has a very good website and, for some reason, there are also very complete records available online for the entire group, moreso than for any of the other 40-some groups that based in the UK. You can look up all the details of virtually every mission they flew. I have found the records for all of my dad's missions including names and positions of everyone on the crew for that mission, serial no. for each plane, position in the formation even, bomb load and tons more! They also have scanned copies of each interrogation form for every plane in nearly every mission, amazing reading!! Also, the movie "12 o'clock high" was actually based on real life drama for the 306th (hence the movie's fictitious bomb group number of '918th' ... 306x3) and the characters were modeled after specific members. I also just happen to have my dad's navigation logs for 18 of his missions (he flew 24 and then the war ended 2 days later), more amazing reading as they wrote down everything worth noting every several minutes. No doubt, you spend some time searching the 'net and the 306th's website, you will find your father mentioned, especially if he's the pilot because the entire crew for that mission is always under the pilots' name (as in "Smith's crew", "Jones' crew", etc.). Conceivably, you can likely find the entire synopsis for possibly every one of his missions!
My uncle commanded a B-17 named pee wee, after his wife, early in the bombing campaign. This was before long range escorts. On one occasion, his plane was so badly damaged, he crash landed in France and he and his crew were helped by the French underground to get back to Britain. By the time his wife was informed of him being missing in action, he and his crew were already flying missions in a new ship
Jim Purdy, Flight engineer/top turret gunner: Bill Fischer, Ball turret gunner: Lou Carusello, Waist gunner: George Johnson, Tail gunner: Ray Rybarski (5 Killed in Action); Co-pilot: John Garfield, Navigator: Paul Bunchuk, Bombardier: John Welch, Radio Operator: Emile Bianchi, Waist gunner: Don Itschner (5 Prisoner of War).
Without women like her we would never have won the war. They made what the men needed to fight. A woman like your mom made the C-47s my dad flew in WWII. When my dad died, I always thought of him back in the sky flying his beloved Cs. Maybe your mom has finally got to fly one of the planes she made. She was a real heroine. But you know that already.
@@itsscarlett2169 The B-17 was actually an excellent and exceedingly tough airframe. U.S. combat aircraft of the Second World War era were built to survive and could absorb tremendous amounts of punishment that would easily down other airframes.
We Brits lost 55,000 men in Bomber Command from 1939 to 1945 most would be lost in our 4 engined heavy bombers like the Halifax Stirling and the most famous and the main aircraft Avro Lancaster
My father was a Bombardier on a B17, aircraft no. 230702, proudly name Miss Ma Nookie, that was shot down over Germany on 2/21/44. On 11/5/43, he was wounded in the right thigh by shrapnel, and resumed flying 10 days later. On his last entry in his flight log, he posted the following: 'they came, they saw, they shot the hell out of us'. Dad jumped and survived his only parachute drop, only to be taken to POW camp near the Baltic Sea. 13 month later, the camp was liberated and he returned home in New Orleans in 1945. 2 years later, he met and married my mother, 3 kids followed with me being #3, born in 1950. Dad retired from Eastern Airlines and passed away in 1992. He was proud to fly the 17 and being part of the US Army Air Corps. As stated by other comments writing about their Dad's experience, my father didn't talk very much about his war experience. One or two comments about POW camp, how he got there, and how he felt when his camp was liberated was all he shared. Vietnam vets I have met and work with, for the most part, didn't share much as well. I was in the AF from 1970-1974 and spent all my active duty at one installation, supporting our main role, until my early out in '74.
My dad was a rear gunner on a B-17, Mel's Mess, WWII. He survived two crash landings, got credit for 2 German kills, and got his seat shot from under him. He mentioned his unit was assigned to bombing Rommel. Later in Hayward, Ca. He met Dr. LEVINE who was one of the crew members!
I had the very good fortune to have been a passenger onboard a B-17 named " Sentimental Journey " during the summer of 2014 , what an absolute thrill and adrenaline rush it was . The fumes from the burning oil and fuel was very prominent throughout the 30 minute flight . We hit a little turbulence which sort of gave you a simulated feeling of flak bursts . I liken it to flying inside a well constructed tin can . Total respect for the courageous young men that flew these suicide missions early on , in the European theater of operations before escort fighters could accompany the heavies all the way to the target and back . I comprehend why the B-17 crews were so fond of the flying fortress .
I had the good fortune to see Sentimental Journey at a local air show in the late '80s or early '90s. I was able to go inside and took dozens of detailed photographs of it, inside and out. I was amazed at how cramped the whole thing was and that so many thousands of men trusted their lives and gave their lives flying miles above the earth in these seemingly flimsy machines.
Years ago I took a flight on the Collings Foundation B17 that crashed a couple of years ago. We flew over the Wine Country in Northern California it was fascinating talking to an older gentleman who had been a waist gunner on a B17. He said, lo9king down at the vineyards below ( in the Napa/Sonoma area) was like flying over France in 1943. Then he added, smiling, " except no 109s today"...
@@tomsmith5216 I,too,flew on the 909 not long before it crashed.That was the only airplane I've ever flown in.What a thrill! I was humbled when I thought about what those brave young men endured in WW II.
@@andyjones9386 I was a Huey crew chief in Vietnam It was very humbling for me when I thought about what I did at 20 yrs old compared to what those young men did at 20, and even younger. They were a special breed to face that danger every mission. God bless them all.
I flew on '909' for Father's Day out of Moffett field. I cried the moment we left the ground because I was experiencing what those men did back in the forties. Well, the flying part. Even had the conversation with the pilot on video. Both are gone...
The B-17 earned the nickname flying fortress for a reason. It was built to take extreme punishment. I once worked for a company whose owners father was a B-17 pilot. He walk in, pull me aside and talk to me for hours and hours about WWIIand his exploits. I apologised to my boss for not getting my work done. His reply was don't worry the work will get done by someone else. When my father wants to talk to you drop everything and let him talk. There's a reason they were dubbed the greatest generation. It was an engineering milestone in flight. It was engineered to take a physical beating. All the 50 cal. AA could hold off dozens of enemy fighters.
I had a old vet in my water color class I was teaching years ago, we were painting clouds one night and he said they are the clouds you always fly around , I asked him were you a pilot , He said he was on a B17 in WW2 We had many talks from then on , he crashed landed 9 times he said that aircraft could fly with one engine ,
There's a small military museum in Urbana Ohio that is building a BRAND NEW B-17 from the ground up. They have all the original blueprints for it. Some things like engines and landing gear might be found in surplus, but the bulk of the airframe is being made new.
Champaign Aviation Museum - Our B-17 is being rebuilt using parts from various airframes that have seen a wide range of service, including an airtanker, movie prop, search and rescue, and nuclear testing. Volunteers fabricate missing pieces according to the specifications from the original drawings. Our specific B-17 was manufactured by Lockheed-Vega in Burbank, California as a B-17G-110-VE.
@@jimw1615 I was told several years ago that most of the parts were being fabricated new, evidently that person was incorrect. How close are you to completion???
These aircraft were still being used as fire retardant bombers in Washington state until the early 80s. I saw one in action on a fire near Ellensburg wa.in 78. I watched it follow a Douglas skyraider on runs near a cliff face, climbing out in a near stall vertical climb. The pilot was impressive as was the unforgettable sound of the plane climbing. Impressive craft 👏
Agreed. I quit WT because of how stupid things like this are in it. Flying a fricking big ass bomber and getting blown in half or losing the elevator in a single fricking shot CONSTANTLY pisses me off to no end
My uncle worked repair on bombers returning from daylight bombing raids over Germany. He had a bunch of photos of planes that made it back that you would never believe could have flown. The two I remember most was a B17 that took a flak round through the nose and caused all the outer sheet metal to peel back to the bulkhead behind the cockpit. There was a floor two yokes and seats for pilot and copilot all exposed to the open air. The nose, bombardier, windscreens, and all the gauges gone but they brought the rest of the plane and crew home. The second was a mosquito that bounced off the landing runway and pancaked into a big muddy ditch. The whole plane splintered and shattered leaving a plane shaped outline visible in the mud with all the major metal components (engines, seats, guns, etc) just stuck in the mud surrounded by what in the photo looked like a plane outline made of oversized toothpicks. Uncle Cecil served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam repairing damaged combat aircraft.
It must never be forgotten; these bomber crews, mostly quite young men, went on missions, got shot up, watched their comrades shot down, had crew members killed, limped home seriously damaged and often whilst injured etc.. Then, knowing what to expect and accepting they might not return, they went on more missions in defence of our freedoms. Their extraordinary bravery and sacrifice was and is utterly awe inspiring.
My great great grandpa Jackson was the engine mechanic that worked on the Enola Gay. Haven’t heard too many stories about him but it’s cool to see the ground crew pictures and see him kneeling right in the middle of the photo.
My aunt had a picture of my father and his childhood best friend together when they were about 5 years old. She told me that little boy was killed in a B-17 over Germany. My father would ride his bicycle to the airport in Richmond VA to take flying lessons. He got his pilots license before he got his drivers license. He went down to the army recruiter and wanted to be a pilot. They said sure sign here. After that they said we don't need any pilots so you can be a mechanic. He was a crew chief for a P-51 and C-47 in France. He always said never trust the military.
@@Maax1200 it could also mean that the 88mm didn't HIT the plane DIRECTLY, so much as explode NEAR the plane, and the "hits" counted were the holes made by the fragments of the exploded shells. Or that 88mm shells exploded near the plane, too far for frag damage, but close enough for the shockwave to hit the plane, and the crew felt THOSE, and counted them as hits. Just my take.
@@Maax1200 3 hits with 3 cm M-Geschoss (30 mm high capacity demolition shell) were statistically enough to shot down a four engined bomber. A direct hit with an 8,8 cm shell would have blown any aircraft to pieces.
@@Maax1200 You do make a very valid point, 88 hits were shockingly devastating. Maybe whoever wrote the dialogue for this video got the info wrong. But still, you can't argue with the toughness of the B17. I mean look at the film, it looks like someone carved a model Fortress out of Swiss cheese, yet it kept flying - for a while anyway.
My Mother’s neighbor’s son Billy Funk went to Europe to help fight the war in a B-17. One day a gold star appeared in his parents window. My mother was heartbroken. In 2004 at a local airport the War Birds Group flew in for a show a B17 was among the vintage aircraft Mom wanted to see the inside of the airplane plane so badly. I had to carry her most the way down the fuselage not built for a my 6’2” frame. When we got out and walked away I asked her what she thought She said she “ said a prayer 1:16 to say goodbye to Billy “
My heart goes out to all those whom have had to endure war. Hopefully one day humanity can come together in a way where war is forever something of the past.
@VonRyansExpress That’s the kind of fatalistic thinking on the human race that can cause economic collapse from wars, famine, destruction and tribalism. It’s not always us vs them, and does not always have to be. Wars need an excuse.
GEEZ its like the A-10 where it can take substantial damage and still fly. Thank you for your service to anyone who is serving in the armed forces, firefighter, or cop.
Many years ago I was ground crew in the RAAF with the F-IIIs. We were seeing in a couple of planes that had done a practice bombing run. This practice was conducted some 300km away. As they came in it became very apparent that something had gone horribly wrong for one of the planes and we were keen to learn from the pilot what had happened. Talking to the pilot it became obvious he had no idea that there even was a problem and he became a bit annoyed that people were asking questions and why was everyone staring at the plane? When he got out we directed his attention to the tail rudder. F-IIIs have massive control surfaces. This one didn't have one! The whole thing was gone with just the column support and a few scraps of metal hanging off it. I will never forget the look on the pilots face, he was stunned and stood for a while just staring! Perhaps a delay in seeing his life flash before his eyes?
My stepfather was a Crewman on B17s over Germany. When he passed away I found a chest with pictures of the B17s that made it home to the AFB in England. Unbelevabe Damage that these marvels of WW2 could withstand. RIP Lee C.
I got the chance to ride in the b-17 “909” , I cannot imagine seeing the damage on it outside the thin frame that lines the beast shredded all over, i simply cannot imagine the set of balls on these fine men, I wish I could thank each and every American, Brit and every allied country whose courage awarded us our lives as we know it.
B-17s would fly with a hell of a lot of damage, but damn that's a lot of holes in that baby! God bless the designer of the B-17, that was a hell of a plane, my dad was a tail gunner in one!!
There's a story of a plane that had it's tail ripped off, and the giant stabilizer and elevators kept it gliding in the air for a good while before the tail gunner noticed what happened an bailed out.
My dad was a young boy living in a kentish village. He often told stories of seeing Fortresses flying home low with several engines out and gaping holes in the wings and fuselage. He was always amazed at the punishment they could take.
Years ago I was on holiday in California and made a trip to the Planes Of Fame museum. Near to the entrance was a B17 with an old gentleman sitting in the shade beneath one of the wings. I stopped for a chat with him. I was wearing a '100th BG, Thorpe Abbotts' T-Shirt. He said he was stationed not far from there - I told him it's around 40 miles from where I live. He had a photo album and he let me flick through it. Amongst others there was a photo of him in his flying kit and an unusual series of consecutive photos showing a bomb release. He told me he was on the B17 in the ball turret and told me another ship had drifted underneath them at release. He asked me to have a closer look and I saw that a bomb had taken a horizontal stabiliser clean off. From his position he saw it spiral down and saw no 'chutes. He said that he found out later than no one had got out. Wilbur Richardson. 1922-2020. 331sq 94BG An honour to meet him.
Most people think the crews got a specific plane to fly. My dad was a B17 radio operator and gunner. They had to change planes all the time because they were shot up so bad.
My grandfather was a Captain flying war-torn and damaged B-17s to North Carolina to be repaired during WW2. He took what we call the first "selfie" in flight during one of his missions. RIP Robert Emil Lechich
That is absolutely amazing. I am in my 60s, have been fascinated about WWII all my life, as I had uncles that fought through it and survived but I have never seen this footage ever before.
We had a CAF b 17 visit our city , along with a b 25 , it was $5 to walk around it, $15 to walk through it , I creeped undercut & stood in one of the wheel bays, the inside door surfaces were covered with autographs of wartime crew & ground service personnel , a few were actually from some of the Dolittle raiders , one was from a 104 yr old gentleman , it was a bit sobering to read these . Eternal gratitude for those who answered the call.of duty
A pilot flying one of those damaged planes returning to England was the one that said "flying with a wing and a prayer" after was asked by the control tower how he was doing before landing
Even though the Consolidated B-24 Liberator could carry a heavier bombload, fly further and was built in greater numbers than the Flying Forts, the B-17 remained a favorite among pilots and aircrews because of it's legendary toughness.
The Liberator was nicknamed the flying coffin. As one of the above posts noted, the B17 could stay in the air with 1 engine. If you lost 1 engine on a B24 you were in trouble. My Dad had a friend that flew B24's to Bomb the oil fields in Ploiesti Romania from North Africa. He used to tell stories of disassembling the plane to make it as light as possible to make it back. They ditched in the Mediterranean several times.
@@stevecraig6350 - Had a family friend who piloted a B-24 on the same raid, second wave as I remember it. Later flew over Italy and into Germany and back to North Africa. On one mission they were shot up pretty bad. Ended up behind his group and over north Italy was really lagging behind to the point he really had trouble seeing the planes in front. Usually, stragglers ended up being target practice for German fighters and his plane was vulnerable due to losses. Next thing he knew he had two fighters pull up on either side of his plane, wag their wings, and then took up positions above and behind him. Both were P-51’s with “red tails”, i.e. Tuskegee airmen. He was escorted long enough to get home unscathed. He thought they saved his airplane and his life.
@@OkieSketcher1949 I have read where 8th Air Force bomber pilots started requesting the Red Tails because they had a strong escorting record. It was an interesting time.
My dad was lead formation pilot flying B-17’s out of Foggia Italy. He flew 56 missions and never lost a crewman. In his trunk I found a letter from his commanding officer and a “Certificate of Valor. He was able to bring back a heavily damaged plane, flying it two hours with very limited control. After the war was won and he returned to a base in Florida, he was asked to get a jeep. He declined because he had never driven a car and did not know how. He had just turned 19. Col. Richard Haals Sorenson, USAF
Those crews in the B -17s we heroes. All of them knew that their chances of survival were slim yet the heroes went up anyway. Incredible men. Incredible heroes of our country. Thank you.
Back in the late 40's when I was in grade school, there was a book in the school library that I read that detailed the amazing amount of damage that B-17's could sustain and still manage to limp back to friendly territory. Most of the details have slipped from my memory, but I recall that it was truly amazing!
My father was a Canadian despatch rider in England during the first Blitz, before he went to mainland Europe. He said that the planes he saw return the most damaged -- yet still flying -- were the Hawker Hurricanes.
I've been told, since I've never been there, that there is a painting on a wall at the 8th AF museum (or maybe it was the 390th BG museum) , of a B-17, with her gear down, being escorted down by 2 109s. That would be the 'Phyllis Marie'. My uncle Theo (dad's side) was the flight engineer/top turret gunner and spent the rest of the war as a POW. Story my mother told me at his funeral (1990) As allied troops approached, the Germans marched the POWs thru the snow away from the advancing front. Those that fell out, were shot by the guards. At one point, my uncle fell out, his buddies began yelling "Come on Tex", "Get up Tex", "You can make it Tex", when an officer in a car heard them and stopped. "You're from Texas?" Yes. "Come on get in the car, you know I visited Texas before the war...." and that's how he survived the war and came home. At least, that's the story I was told.
Those B-17 bombing missions over Germany were brutal for every member in that bomber. The structure of the B-17 allowed it to take massive damage & still fly. 11 missions was the life expectancy of a crew member on a B 17. The weirdest story was the B 17 that landed at an allied airfield in Belgium but there was no crew inside it ! 91st Bomber Group the B 17 landed with flak damage after making its bombing run over the German oil fields.
An uncle ran away from home at 17, went to Canada and joined the RAF in December, 1939. Pearl Harbor obviously hadn't happened yet, but he was determined to get into the fight. He always said he was surprised they let him enlist, but they did. He flew a B-17 in Europe and almost went down in the Channel trying to get back to England after getting badly shot up. His father didn't forgive him until 1961.
During the whole war, 51% of aircrew were killed on operations, 12% were killed or wounded in non-operational accidents and 13% became prisoners of war or evaders. Only 24% survived the war unscathed. In the RAF a tour was initially thirty operational flights, not exceeding 200 actual flying hours, which could last for any period from four months to a year. Pathfinder crews flew forty-five.
Have you read about the Nuremberg Raid by the RAF on 30/31 March 1944? It was a disaster 96 of 779 bombers were shot down. A cumulation of bad planning and perfect conditions for night fighters made it a turkey shoot for the Luftwaffe.
@@Outlier999 probably close enough for either ... it was much worse to be on a bomber crew than to be an infantry man. At least the infantry could dig a hole or duck.
amazing how nearly all the damage is on the wings and tail but the parts holding the crew were not hit. very very skilled crew on board to make that happen, rip to the ones that died
My father was Army Air Corps stationed in the South Pacific during WWII and told many harrowing stories of B17’s in battle. The one that comes immediately to mind was of a landing wherein the entire mid-section of the plane had been shot away from the wings to the tail. The only thing keeping the tail section attached were the control cables. The tail-gunner having survived had to traverse the control cables hand-over-hand in mid-air to get into the main body of the air-craft... Everyone knew what was going to happen when the plane landed: The tail-section would flip up and over impaling the fuselage. All of the remaining crew crammed as far forward into the cockpit as the limited space would allow. Have you ever been inside of a B17? The movies makes the interior look larger that it actually is. The quarters are really quite cramped... The entire base was on deck to witness the landing as it had been announced over the PA. My father said as the plane lumbered in, it looked as though the tail-section was chasing the fuselage. As predicted when the B17 had landed and slowed so the tail could no longer ‘fly’ it immediately flipped up and forward as soon as it touch the runway. The rudder cut through the top-turret to quote my father ‘like a knife through butter’... None of the surviving crew were injured in the landing. The only casualties on that mission were the waste gunners. Of those stories my father would often say ‘Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing...’ The B17 was called ‘The-Flying-Fortress’ because of the severe damage it could sustain and still fly. My father told many many stories of B17s with the nose shot off or missing a entire wing or with no tail-section or only having one engine operating while the remaining on fire or shot up full of holes looking like ‘Swiss-cheese’ and still able to return to base and land... Foot Note: My father said that you didn’t use the rudder to steer B17s in flight because the controls were too ‘heavy’. The pilot would adjust the speed of the engines to get the plane to turn. Depending if wanting to maneuver starboard or port would determine the RPM of each of the four engines. By raising the RPM of the out-board engine and decreasing the RPM of each subsequent engine the plane would ‘pivot’ in whichever direction desired. The higher the RPM of the out-board engine relative to the other engines the sharper the turn... My father’s generation were truly ‘The Greatest Generation’. They survived The Great Depression as children and saved the world fighting WWII as young adults. And look what a mess of things we’ve made of the world they saved. In parting: I’d a great-grandmother who said that the depression of the 1880’s was much worse than the depression of the 1930’s, but that’s another story...
I knew a member of a World War II bomber. I think he was a belt gunner. I am not sure. But, he told me the flights were smooth, but cold and dark, with a constant droning. But, when the planes came close to their targets, lights brighter than anything he had ever seen, but the sun, beamed at the planes, lighting up the entrie interior of the bombers. A few minutes later, they enter the flak field. He said all feeling of being in an aircraft disappeared. It felt like being on the worse road possible on flat tires, with huge holes on the road. The sound was deafening to the point that almost no communication took place inside the bomber without hand signals and small black boards. It sounded like a huge hail storm with explosions mixed in while in a tin roof shack. Communication did not happen very much because all of them had a job to do. Rehearsing and training prepared none of them for the hellish lights, thunderous noise, and the violent jarring of the plane. As holes appeared in the fuselage, more light would filter in. The upward shadows from the wings often had beams of light appearing in the shadow due to new holes appearing. The job all of them had to do was the only thing that kept them sane in those conditions. The pilot could only hold his course. He could not take any actions to avoid any sort of cannon flak fire. Veering from his course could make the pilot lose his way in the lights and explosions. Every once in awhile, the light would get brighter, or a small moment of dark, would happen as the bomber was handed off from one spotlight to the next spotlight. He said it seemed like hours inside those conditions when it was actually only minutes. At the end of the bombing run, all would go dark and the whistling of the air flowing through flak holes, misfiring engines grinding, the smell of fuel and burning oil, and the sound of men crying.
My grandfather was a ball gunner on a B-17. His nickname was Shorty. One time his plane was so damaged that it crash landed in the English Channel. He along with most of the crew were fished out of the channel by the English equivalent of the Coast Guard. He met my grandmother in England. They got married and after the war she came to America on the HMS Queen Mary. They settled in Maine and eventually moved to Los Angeles. He died in his sleep from a heart attack in the early 70’s.
My great-grandfather (He was American) at Auch5wItz, he took photos of the old gas tank machines. He also appeared at the Trials where the Nazi soldiers were charged for their crimes. he died in August of 2023 at 103 years old. Thank you for your Service Mr. Ray!!
The Generals wanted more B24's because they could carry more farther faster and higher. The Crews wanted B17's because they brought more of them back home.
It always amazed me the amount of abuse a B-17 could take before it was downed. Not all cases but seeing planes come back with virtually no tail or missing wing parts etc was truly amazing. I’m not a pilot but the skill involved in bringing those home is a testament to the flight crews and training. It was well designed aircraft in my estimation.
I exist due to death of a soldier on July 19, 1944 in B-17 42-102949 on its way to bomb the Messerschmitt Aircraft factory in Augsburg. Shot down over Gunzberg, only two got out and became POWs and survived the war. James was the ball turret gunner and did not get out. Locals buried him in a nearby cemetery and he was recovered after the war.
My dad was a radioman on a cruiser in the nort Pacific. One day he got a call from a bomber on it's way back from bombing mainlad Japan asking for a radio marker bearing so it could find it's way to base because their equipment was shot to heck. Dad sent the bearing signal and heard the plane near. Stepped out of radio shack as it passed directly overhead. He said there were so many holes in it it looked like Swiss cheese. They made it home with a little help.😊
My dad flew B-17s, B-24s & B-25s & a night fighter I don't know the number of. I was born in 1952. Dad had bleeding ulcers & every year would save his vacation to go into the hospital to get them treated. He had nightmares, big nightmares, falling out of bed nightmares most every night until i was 10, when they got to be less. He was the greatest man I ever knew. Dad wouldn't talk much about the war but my aunt (his sister) told me he was listed MIA 5 times. He did tell me about 3 times he was shot down. When I was young, during winter when I got up (cold house), I would wear dad's bomber jacket. It was really warm. Dad I miss you.
I lived near an emergency landing strip near Birch in Essex. I saw an American bomber returning I could see the nose and wings. The fusalarge was invisible it looked like the tail was following behind. It was an amazing sight. There must have been some connection all of the metal covering the body was gone. The crew must have sustained terrible hits.
I live just down the road from that airstrip; only one 0.7 mile straight piece of tarmac remains now, it's where the locals have their first experience of driving a car, as there's not a lot to crash into. Birch Airfield was sadly famous for a major fracas involving a GI and a local taxi driver. One of them died. Rivenhall aerodrome by contrast, has many of the billets and nissen huts remaining...even the old cinema still stands.
That must have been the occasion when a B17 took part in a raid on Taranto in Italy. I have seen a photo of this event, the plane being flown all the way back to England with the fuselage almost cut in two. That was caused by damaged Messerschmidt 109 slicing through the B17. The crew rigged up a means to keep it from falling off by using parachute straps to brace the tail. By taking a very long turning detour so as not to stress everything the brilliant pilot managed to fly it back. All the while the tail gunner had to stay where he was, and just hope and pray! The tail broke off completely when the plane landed, but everyone was safe.
My father was a radioman on a cruiser in the N. Pacific. One day a light bommer pilot called for a location signal because his on board equipment was damaged. My dad sent the signal and the pilot thanked him. Dad heard the plane passing and stepped out of the radio room and looked up just as it went right over the ship. He said you could see light through the whole plane.like it was made of Swiss cheese. Figured that guy was one hell of a pilot to get that thing back to base. Always said he wished he'd wrote the man's name down so he could find out if he made it through the war.
I've lived near the 100th bomb group, Thorpe Abbotts all my life. The control tower is restored and the museum inside is a very moving story indeed, some of the stories of these incredible aircraft and those brave lads make well up.😢
My dad's first cousin was in the 100th. His first mission was in January 1945. He got in 27 missions before the war ended. During one mission he had a midair collision with another B17. All 9 members of the other B17 died after they took a direct hit from flak. The stricken airplane clipped my cousins airplane on the way down. They made it safely back to Thorpe Abbot with a damaged wing.
Research the B-17 called All American. It was nearly cut in two when struck by am out of control German fighter aircraft. There are pictures taken from another B-17 and you can look right through the All American and see the sky beyond it. After the fighter aircraft's wing sliced through the B-19 like a hot knife through warm butter the tail section was swaying three or more feet from side to side as the aircraft flew. The pilot and co-pilot were sure if they used the rudder to steer the rear section of the aircraft would break loose. So to make course corrections/steer they would throttle up the engines on one side and throttle back the engines on the other side and sort of pivot the aircraft around. After landing at it's base the tail section broke off falling on the tarmac. Boeing designers and engineers looked over the damaged aircraft and said it was impossible for it to have flown and remain together after being hit. But it did. It brought it's crew home before it broke in two.
The Allies commissioned a study on how to make these planes and other bombers more survivable from taking hits. A few different fields of study from different people, like statisticians, aircraft engineers, weapon designers, etc... They went out to look at the planes that were damaged that we able to land. Some just had a few holes in them, others had giant chucks missing. One fellow noted that all of the hits and major damage were in certain areas of the planes. So he stated that all of the other areas not hit my flak or bullets, should be up-armored and made stronger. The fact that these planes were all hit in the same general area proved to them that the planes can take a great deal of damage in these locations.. but, the planes that get hit in the other areas are not coming back. It was a pretty neat study and used an almost reverse logic. You fix up what you can't see and leave the other areas alone. I believe after that some planes had to get rid of a a crew member or 2 to make way for the weight of the new armor and supports. Two men and two .50 machine guns weighs a lot.
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I was at a pub in Oxford England in 1994. I was on holiday in the Cotswolds and had decided to have a pub lunch, I noticed a man probably in his late 60s early 70s stood at the bar with his wife, as I approached him I could see he wore a leather jacket with a very ornate insignia on the back, when they came to the table next to me and the wife, i asked him if it was an American squadron insignia, he told me it was and he was a Bombardier in a flying fort, we started a good conversation, he was here in the UK for a squadron reunion he told me I tried to buy them a drink but he declined as he said they weren't big drinkers, as he got up to leave i said to him may I thank you and you're mates for fighting by our side, do you know he said You're the first Brit said that to me and we laughed, but inside I was really happy that the extremely rare opportunity had come my way to thank an American serviceman
Thank You John
Very nice gesture. Thanks for deciding to do that that day.
Thank you for sharing your story.
B 17s took the day missions over Germany, Arvo Lancasters did the night missions.
@@jamestiscareno4387 welcome 👍👌
My grandfather piloted one of these. Signed up well before the war. In artillery (Corporal) just like his dad in WW1. Army did massive service wide tests for potential pilots. Old boy got his 25 missions in over Germany. No escorts. Never had much to say about it. Spent more than 40 years in Army/Air Corps/Air Force. Retired in '81. Truly the greatest generation. Endured his father serving in WWI, the Great Depression, WW2, Korean War, his kids in Vietnam, grandkids in Gulf War and other hot spots. Died at 88 years old in 2001 just before 911 attacks. I'm grateful he didn't have to witness more turmoil. Sure miss him.
A great Hero !
What a legend. What a generation.
Sometimes I think we should bring back the draft, or public service, just to show how teamwork and patriotism could work again! But I’m relieved that our wars aren’t fought by infantry. However it was infantry and thousands of servicemen that showed Europe some American morality and gained almost 70 years of peace. Our country has become selfish.
@@richarddietzen3137 Actually it is the infantry that does the fighting with support of air power. Boots on the ground is a must. Ask any Grunt or General from every war or contingency. I understand where your coming from on patriotic duty but volunteers gives us a better military because they want to be there. Draftees are less likely to have the heart for it. Earlier generations saw it as their duty to country. Even Hollywood and professional athletes would quip, 'Sure, I'll be a private in this man's Army!' I agree completely that this nation takes our freedoms for granted. It's why we are losing them...free speech, freedom to assemble, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Americans need to celebrate what's good and right about our country and correct and improve our misteps. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is no solution.
Where are this type of United States human kind today?
They are now called the “Entitled”
The fall of the kingdom is at hand.
A family friend was a Bombardier/Navigator on a B-17 in the later years of the war. He told us his pilot taught every man on his crew how to fly it. Not how to land or take off, but to at least keep it in the air for as long as possible. The idea was to get the plane back over friendly lines before bailing out. The idea was if they had seriously wounded they would patch them up as best they could and made sure they would clear the plane under a canopy. One other thing he would do was show them on a map all air strips in Western Europe that were in friendly hands in case they needed, and were able, to land before getting back to base. On one mission they were shot up pretty badly. The pilot and co-pilot were killed and several crewmen badly wounded. His wounds were not as bad as most on board. He took the pilot’s seat and headed home, but the plane was too shot up to make it. He thus headed for an air strip that was in German hands when they left but they knew GI’s were heading that way. Hopefully, the air strip would be in friendly hands when they got there. When he got close to the strip and lined up to the runway he tried to lower the wheels. They didn’t go down. So they prepped for a belly landing. Just before landing he noticed tracers going both east and west down the runway. The Germans were on the east side. The Americans on the west. As soon as he was in range all parties stopped shooting. As he passed over German lines he could see several men look up at him. No one fired. He belly whopped and slide to the far end of the runway and off into the grass. Guys came out to get everyone out of the plane. As soon as the last man was cleared everyone went back to shooting at each other. It was his last mission. Strange things happen in war sometimes.
Very sound strategy.
Thanks for sharing that story.
It made me laugh with a tear in my eye
WWII has many stories like this of incredible civility. There are lots of stories of medics on both sides treating the wounded without hesitation.
Now that is a story worth keeping in the family.
@Jan 6 was "Wall Street Putsch" part 2
Vielen Dank für Ihre freundlichen Worde.
My dad was a radio man on a B-17 in 1943 in the 8th AF. Flew 7 missions before flak shrapnel took his right eye. Finished as a Sgt, training other radio men in the USA.
Went on to get engineering degree(GI Bill) and worked for NASA.
They were the Greatest Generation.
My great grandfather did the same thing, including training radio operators in North Carolina(I believe). If your dad had any stories about “Curly” Smith he was talking about my great grandfather.
THAts awesome ! I bet your dad was tough as nails RIP !
he was probably a Technical sargent...they got paid more lol...my grampa was an airborne engineer and was discharged at the same rank...the war really messed him up..
My dad was also a B-17 radio operator. Once during a bombing run he turned away from his radio to throw out foil chaff (to throw off the AA guns on the ground) and when he turned back there was a flak shrapnel hole passing right through the plane at that location. Another time alone in the radio room during the long flight his oxygen hose froze up, but he was writing and recognized the lack of coordination before passing out, and was able to fix his hose. And another flight they lost 2 engines and had to throw out the guns etc. and after they landed the mechanics said a 3rd engine would have failed in another 5 or 10 minutes, due to an oil leak... over 100 holes in the plane, but nobody wounded.
After 35 missions my dad got out and went back to Michigan Tech, switched from chemistry and got a degree in electrical engineering, worked as a civilian for the Army near Detroit and helped design the M1 Abrams tank.
He was literally born in a log cabin in Upper Michigan, literally walked a mile each way to school through the woods, and grew up chopping firewood, milking cows, feeding chickens, etc. during the Great Depression and had only 3 people total in his high school graduating class.
And he is still alive now, 100 years old.
Your Dad may have trained my Dad, who was a radio operator and flew 35 missions from Jan to April '45.
My father was a B-17 pilot out of southern England. He flew 36 combat missions mostly over Germany, with the 8th Air Force, in a bomb group called The Fightin' Bitin'. I can't remember if it was his plane, or another, but he said after returning home from a mission they counted the holes the "B one seven" had sustained from flak (anti aircraft shrapnel), and maybe machine gun fire from German fighter planes. The total: some 200 holes of various size in a single plane. Maybe that was more than usual, or normal, I don't know, because my dad never talked about combat. But he did describe once how chunks of shrapnel from the flak would shoot through the plane, in one side, out the other (the size of a silver dollar or a softball, he said, when I asked), and how it pinned the bombardier's map to the top of the plane. God knows what else, or who else, it ripped through that he wouldn't talk about. From reactions my dad had later in life to blood, I could read between the lines. Airmen got torn to shreds in those B-17s by flak, machine gun fire, and nose canons from the ME-109s. The surviving crew then had to fly home for several hours with the dead and wounded close to them, as it was fairly tight in those planes. There had to be a lot of blood, and fellow airmen, buddies even, with their insides spilling out. It had to be awful. And Hitler had reportedly placed 6,000 big anti aircraft guns around Berlin hurling continuous volleys of flak into the B-17 raids. My uncle, a waist gunner, said it was absolutely terrifying, especially if you were the pilot or co pilot, because they could see straight-on the whole hellish mess they were flying into, and maybe not coming out of. Undoubtedly, an unfolding nightmare. Imagine three dozens such missions, and something like 39% of the planes lost- but we can't, because we didn't go through that. Right after his tour, my dad went someplace in Florida where apparently they sent airmen for r&r. I only know that because there was a photo of him with palm trees, and I asked my mother. Maybe it was normal for airmen to be sent there, I still don't know. I think it was only for a week or two, a place to collect yourself and rest. PTSD wasn't heard of back then, if that's what that was about, but I have thought maybe it was. My dad was awarded several medals, like most of those guys, he said. He never even took possession of them until two years before he passed away in 2002, asking me if I wanted them. He kind of rejected the very thought of those medals, because, he said, he only did what everybody else did. One of those medals was the Distinguished Flying Cross, with a descriptive citation of an ordeal he flew through getting his crew back home, limping along on one engine, or something, I forget, landing in a farmer's field. He dismissed that event, and the medal, saying that mission didn't even compare to various other snafu's they flew through, and survived, but that nobody knew about except he and his crew. After the war, I should add, my father had no desire to fly a plane. He never flew again.
(These men fought for our freedom. Four hundred thousand of them fought and died in WW ll alone. Now, more than ever, it is we who must fight to preserve that freedom, as America faces being destroyed from within.)
Excellent story, thank you for sharing and I totally agree about the current insidious seditionists.
Thank for your noble service…
16 million men and women were the uniform for America during the war! My 97 year old father was one of them!
The "Fightin' Bitin'" I believe was the 369th squadron of the 306th bomb group, it could've been the 367th sq. but either way it was the 306th BG in Thurliegh. The 306th BG encompassed the 367th, 368th, 369th and 423rd squadrons. My dad was a navigator in the 368th squadron. The 306BG has a very good website and, for some reason, there are also very complete records available online for the entire group, moreso than for any of the other 40-some groups that based in the UK. You can look up all the details of virtually every mission they flew. I have found the records for all of my dad's missions including names and positions of everyone on the crew for that mission, serial no. for each plane, position in the formation even, bomb load and tons more! They also have scanned copies of each interrogation form for every plane in nearly every mission, amazing reading!! Also, the movie "12 o'clock high" was actually based on real life drama for the 306th (hence the movie's fictitious bomb group number of '918th' ... 306x3) and the characters were modeled after specific members. I also just happen to have my dad's navigation logs for 18 of his missions (he flew 24 and then the war ended 2 days later), more amazing reading as they wrote down everything worth noting every several minutes. No doubt, you spend some time searching the 'net and the 306th's website, you will find your father mentioned, especially if he's the pilot because the entire crew for that mission is always under the pilots' name (as in "Smith's crew", "Jones' crew", etc.). Conceivably, you can likely find the entire synopsis for possibly every one of his missions!
My old man was a glider pilot..5 missions..Sicily, Normandy, Southern France, and two flights during Market-Garden...
My uncle commanded a B-17 named pee wee, after his wife, early in the bombing campaign. This was before long range escorts. On one occasion, his plane was so badly damaged, he crash landed in France and he and his crew were helped by the French underground to get back to Britain.
By the time his wife was informed of him being missing in action, he and his crew were already flying missions in a new ship
Warriors
I assume he made it back?
Respect for your uncle !
@@irongeneral7861 yes he did! Retired from the newly formed USAF as a Colonel.
Total Respect all the way.
Jim Purdy, Flight engineer/top turret gunner: Bill Fischer, Ball turret gunner: Lou Carusello, Waist gunner: George Johnson, Tail gunner: Ray Rybarski (5 Killed in Action); Co-pilot: John Garfield, Navigator: Paul Bunchuk, Bombardier: John Welch, Radio Operator: Emile Bianchi, Waist gunner: Don Itschner (5 Prisoner of War).
HTF did the navigator and bombardier survive? The nose is ash!
@@Debbiebabe69 Hi, the navigator Paul Bunchuk and bombardier John Welch became prisoners of war. Hopefully they both survived that too.
my mom was a riveter making b-17's from 1939-45. she was 17 and it was her first job. she died jan 1st, 2024. she was 101 years old.
She was a genuine Rosie the Riveter!
Without women like her we would never have won the war. They made what the men needed to fight. A woman like your mom made the C-47s my dad flew in WWII. When my dad died, I always thought of him back in the sky flying his beloved Cs. Maybe your mom has finally got to fly one of the planes she made. She was a real heroine. But you know that already.
"We Can Do It!"
That's badass
God Bless her! Hundreds of thousands of Rosie the Riveters manned the factories in WWII while the men - 16-Million of them - went off to war!
Wow! Amazing anyone got out alive. Respect sent for those who died and survived. Tough machines and men. Hand salute 🇺🇸
bad plane
@@midwest7176 Yes I I did hear that. I was sending respect to them also. I probably should have added, to the fallen. Thanks
@@midwest7176 I changed that.
@@itsscarlett2169 The B-17 was actually an excellent and exceedingly tough airframe. U.S. combat aircraft of the Second World War era were built to survive and could absorb tremendous amounts of punishment that would easily down other airframes.
We Brits lost 55,000 men in Bomber Command from 1939 to 1945 most would be lost in our 4 engined heavy bombers like the Halifax Stirling and the most famous and the main aircraft Avro Lancaster
My father was a Bombardier on a B17, aircraft no. 230702, proudly name Miss Ma Nookie, that was shot down over Germany on 2/21/44. On 11/5/43, he was wounded in the right thigh by shrapnel, and resumed flying 10 days later. On his last entry in his flight log, he posted the following: 'they came, they saw, they shot the hell out of us'. Dad jumped and survived his only parachute drop, only to be taken to POW camp near the Baltic Sea. 13 month later, the camp was liberated and he returned home in New Orleans in 1945. 2 years later, he met and married my mother, 3 kids followed with me being #3, born in 1950. Dad retired from Eastern Airlines and passed away in 1992. He was proud to fly the 17 and being part of the US Army Air Corps.
As stated by other comments writing about their Dad's experience, my father didn't talk very much about his war experience. One or two comments about POW camp, how he got there, and how he felt when his camp was liberated was all he shared. Vietnam vets I have met and work with, for the most part, didn't share much as well. I was in the AF from 1970-1974 and spent all my active duty at one installation, supporting our main role, until my early out in '74.
My dad was a rear gunner on a B-17, Mel's Mess, WWII.
He survived two crash landings, got credit for 2 German kills, and got his seat shot from under him. He mentioned his unit was assigned to bombing Rommel. Later in Hayward, Ca. He met Dr. LEVINE who was one of the crew members!
I had the very good fortune to have been a passenger onboard a B-17 named " Sentimental Journey " during the summer of 2014 , what an absolute thrill and adrenaline rush it was . The fumes from the burning oil and fuel was very prominent throughout the 30 minute flight . We hit a little turbulence which sort of gave you a simulated feeling of flak bursts . I liken it to flying inside a well constructed tin can . Total respect for the courageous young men that flew these suicide missions early on , in the European theater of operations before escort fighters could accompany the heavies all the way to the target and back . I comprehend why the B-17 crews were so fond of the flying fortress .
I had the good fortune to see Sentimental Journey at a local air show in the late '80s or early '90s. I was able to go inside and took dozens of detailed photographs of it, inside and out. I was amazed at how cramped the whole thing was and that so many thousands of men trusted their lives and gave their lives flying miles above the earth in these seemingly flimsy machines.
Years ago I took a flight on the Collings Foundation B17 that crashed a couple of years ago. We flew over the Wine Country in Northern California it was fascinating talking to an older gentleman who had been a waist gunner on a B17. He said, lo9king down at the vineyards below ( in the Napa/Sonoma area) was like flying over France in 1943. Then he added, smiling, " except no 109s today"...
@@tomsmith5216 I,too,flew on the 909 not long before it crashed.That was the only airplane I've ever flown in.What a thrill! I was humbled when I thought about what those brave young men endured in WW II.
@@andyjones9386 I was a Huey crew chief in Vietnam
It was very humbling for me when I thought about what I did at 20 yrs old compared to what those young men did at 20, and even younger. They were a special breed to face that danger every mission. God bless them all.
I flew on '909' for Father's Day out of Moffett field. I cried the moment we left the ground because I was experiencing what those men did back in the forties. Well, the flying part. Even had the conversation with the pilot on video. Both are gone...
The B-17 earned the nickname flying fortress for a reason. It was built to take extreme punishment.
I once worked for a company whose owners father was a B-17 pilot. He walk in, pull me aside and talk to me for hours and hours about WWIIand his exploits.
I apologised to my boss for not getting my work done. His reply was don't worry the work will get done by someone else. When my father wants to talk to you drop everything and let him talk. There's a reason they were dubbed the greatest generation.
It was an engineering milestone in flight. It was engineered to take a physical beating. All the 50 cal. AA could hold off dozens of enemy fighters.
I had a old vet in my water color class I was teaching years ago, we were painting clouds one night and he said they are the clouds you always fly around , I asked him were you a pilot , He said he was on a B17 in WW2 We had many talks from then on , he crashed landed 9 times he said that aircraft could fly with one engine ,
There's a small military museum in Urbana Ohio that is building a BRAND NEW B-17 from the ground up. They have all the original blueprints for it. Some things like engines and landing gear might be found in surplus, but the bulk of the airframe is being made new.
I found links when I searched for _Urbana Ohio B-17_
*Thank you*
(TH-cam policy on links changes all the time. Now I just post search strings.)
That's fantastic! I'll have to keep tabs on that, thanks for the info 🙂
i wish they could do more stuff like this
Champaign Aviation Museum - Our B-17 is being rebuilt using parts from various airframes that have seen a wide range of service, including an airtanker, movie prop, search and rescue, and nuclear testing. Volunteers fabricate missing pieces according to the specifications from the original drawings. Our specific B-17 was manufactured by Lockheed-Vega in Burbank, California as a B-17G-110-VE.
@@jimw1615 I was told several years ago that most of the parts were being fabricated new, evidently that person was incorrect. How close are you to completion???
These aircraft were still being used as fire retardant bombers in Washington state until the early 80s. I saw one in action on a fire near Ellensburg wa.in 78. I watched it follow a Douglas skyraider on runs near a cliff face, climbing out in a near stall vertical climb. The pilot was impressive as was the unforgettable sound of the plane climbing. Impressive craft 👏
That would have been a sight to see. We moved to the area in the late 1980's, shame I missed it.
Someone send this to War Thunder so they learn, but on a serious note, this is incredible and I highly respect the men who crew them.
Yeahh bombers used to be thought on wt, now even a bullet can cut a wing gg gaijin
Agreed. I quit WT because of how stupid things like this are in it. Flying a fricking big ass bomber and getting blown in half or losing the elevator in a single fricking shot CONSTANTLY pisses me off to no end
My uncle worked repair on bombers returning from daylight bombing raids over Germany. He had a bunch of photos of planes that made it back that you would never believe could have flown. The two I remember most was a B17 that took a flak round through the nose and caused all the outer sheet metal to peel back to the bulkhead behind the cockpit. There was a floor two yokes and seats for pilot and copilot all exposed to the open air. The nose, bombardier, windscreens, and all the gauges gone but they brought the rest of the plane and crew home. The second was a mosquito that bounced off the landing runway and pancaked into a big muddy ditch. The whole plane splintered and shattered leaving a plane shaped outline visible in the mud with all the major metal components (engines, seats, guns, etc) just stuck in the mud surrounded by what in the photo looked like a plane outline made of oversized toothpicks. Uncle Cecil served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam repairing damaged combat aircraft.
Simply incredible ... The B-17 was characterized by taking a lot of damage and continuing to fly.
That was one tough old bird! RIP flyboys and God bless America.
It must never be forgotten; these bomber crews, mostly quite young men, went on missions, got shot up, watched their comrades shot down, had crew members killed, limped home seriously damaged and often whilst injured etc..
Then, knowing what to expect and accepting they might not return, they went on more missions in defence of our freedoms.
Their extraordinary bravery and sacrifice was and is utterly awe inspiring.
I believe I've read that between 1/3 & 1/2 of the bombers and bomber air crews perished in the European theater of ww2.
My great great grandpa Jackson was the engine mechanic that worked on the Enola Gay. Haven’t heard too many stories about him but it’s cool to see the ground crew pictures and see him kneeling right in the middle of the photo.
My aunt had a picture of my father and his childhood best friend together when they were about 5 years old. She told me that little boy was killed in a B-17 over Germany. My father would ride his bicycle to the airport in Richmond VA to take flying lessons. He got his pilots license before he got his drivers license. He went down to the army recruiter and wanted to be a pilot. They said sure sign here. After that they said we don't need any pilots so you can be a mechanic. He was a crew chief for a P-51 and C-47 in France. He always said never trust the military.
Yeah, this story is probably one of the most amazing examples of just how robust that B-17 was. Talk about a well-disciplined crew!
@@Maax1200 thank you! 100 hits is way too much
@@Maax1200 it could also mean that the 88mm didn't HIT the plane DIRECTLY, so much as explode NEAR the plane, and the "hits" counted were the holes made by the fragments of the exploded shells. Or that 88mm shells exploded near the plane, too far for frag damage, but close enough for the shockwave to hit the plane, and the crew felt THOSE, and counted them as hits. Just my take.
@@Maax1200 3 hits with 3 cm M-Geschoss (30 mm high capacity demolition shell) were statistically enough to shot down a four engined bomber. A direct hit with an 8,8 cm shell would have blown any aircraft to pieces.
@@Maax1200 You do make a very valid point, 88 hits were shockingly devastating. Maybe whoever wrote the dialogue for this video got the info wrong. But still, you can't argue with the toughness of the B17. I mean look at the film, it looks like someone carved a model Fortress out of Swiss cheese, yet it kept flying - for a while anyway.
God bless those brave souls. We will always be thankful for their sacrifice. NEVER forget!
My Mother’s neighbor’s son Billy Funk went to Europe to help fight the war in a B-17. One day a gold star appeared in his parents window.
My mother was heartbroken. In 2004 at a local airport the War Birds Group flew in for a show a B17 was among the vintage aircraft Mom wanted to see the inside of the airplane plane so badly. I had to carry her most the way down the fuselage not built for a my 6’2” frame.
When we got out and walked away I asked her what she thought She said she “ said a prayer 1:16 to say goodbye to Billy “
My heart goes out to all those whom have had to endure war. Hopefully one day humanity can come together in a way where war is forever something of the past.
@VonRyansExpress that future looks very grim, but I'm afraid you are correct in your prediction.
@VonRyansExpress -..'Prophecy has been on track for this entire generation.. "The Whole World". ;}
Accord absolut with you, Sir.
Yes it's coming and its coming in the name The Lord Jesus Christ when he sets up His kingdom on this earth all war will end.
@VonRyansExpress That’s the kind of fatalistic thinking on the human race that can cause economic collapse from wars, famine, destruction and tribalism. It’s not always us vs them, and does not always have to be. Wars need an excuse.
GEEZ its like the A-10 where it can take substantial damage and still fly. Thank you for your service to anyone who is serving in the armed forces, firefighter, or cop.
Cool story! Thanks for posting! Might have to dig into this myself and see how the crew faired in POW camps afterwards!
Many years ago I was ground crew in the RAAF with the F-IIIs. We were seeing in a couple of planes that had done a practice bombing run. This practice was conducted some 300km away. As they came in it became very apparent that something had gone horribly wrong for one of the planes and we were keen to learn from the pilot what had happened. Talking to the pilot it became obvious he had no idea that there even was a problem and he became a bit annoyed that people were asking questions and why was everyone staring at the plane? When he got out we directed his attention to the tail rudder. F-IIIs have massive control surfaces. This one didn't have one! The whole thing was gone with just the column support and a few scraps of metal hanging off it. I will never forget the look on the pilots face, he was stunned and stood for a while just staring! Perhaps a delay in seeing his life flash before his eyes?
My stepfather was a Crewman on B17s over Germany. When he passed away I found a chest with pictures of the B17s that made it home to the AFB in England. Unbelevabe Damage that these marvels of WW2 could withstand. RIP Lee C.
Every single one of them are heros. They didn't call it the Flying Fortress for nothing as you've seen here.
You are very welcome.
I got the chance to ride in the b-17 “909” , I cannot imagine seeing the damage on it outside the thin frame that lines the beast shredded all over, i simply cannot imagine the set of balls on these fine men, I wish I could thank each and every American, Brit and every allied country whose courage awarded us our lives as we know it.
Zeke, I took a ride on "909", too, over the Wine Country in Northern Caifornia. I think.it was in '93...
Isn’t the 909 the B-17 that crashed at Bradley International in Connecticut?
B-17s would fly with a hell of a lot of damage, but damn that's a lot of holes in that baby! God bless the designer of the B-17, that was a hell of a plane, my dad was a tail gunner in one!!
There's a story of a plane that had it's tail ripped off, and the giant stabilizer and elevators kept it gliding in the air for a good while before the tail gunner noticed what happened an bailed out.
When you see people fighting against you who come from another country across an ocean and are that determined you know you are going to lose.
The flying fortress, I've never seen one shot up like that. Thanks for your service
My dad was a young boy living in a kentish village. He often told stories of seeing Fortresses flying home low with several engines out and gaping holes in the wings and fuselage. He was always amazed at the punishment they could take.
Years ago I was on holiday in California and made a trip to the Planes Of Fame museum.
Near to the entrance was a B17 with an old gentleman sitting in the shade beneath one of the wings.
I stopped for a chat with him.
I was wearing a '100th BG, Thorpe Abbotts' T-Shirt.
He said he was stationed not far from there - I told him it's around 40 miles from where I live.
He had a photo album and he let me flick through it. Amongst others
there was a photo of him in his flying kit and an unusual series of consecutive photos showing a bomb release.
He told me he was on the B17 in the ball turret and told me another ship had drifted underneath them at release.
He asked me to have a closer look and I saw that a bomb had taken a horizontal stabiliser clean off.
From his position he saw it spiral down and saw no 'chutes.
He said that he found out later than no one had got out.
Wilbur Richardson. 1922-2020.
331sq
94BG
An honour to meet him.
Mr Richardson is featured in many B-17 ball gunner videos on you tube. quite a character!
Most people think the crews got a specific plane to fly. My dad was a B17 radio operator and gunner.
They had to change planes all the time because they were shot up so bad.
My grandfather was a Captain flying war-torn and damaged B-17s to North Carolina to be repaired during WW2. He took what we call the first "selfie" in flight during one of his missions. RIP Robert Emil Lechich
That is absolutely amazing. I am in my 60s, have been fascinated about WWII all my life, as I had uncles that fought through it and survived but I have never seen this footage ever before.
We had a CAF b 17 visit our city , along with a b 25 , it was $5 to walk around it, $15 to walk through it , I creeped undercut & stood in one of the wheel bays, the inside door surfaces were covered with autographs of wartime crew & ground service personnel , a few were actually from some of the Dolittle raiders , one was from a 104 yr old gentleman , it was a bit sobering to read these .
Eternal gratitude for those who answered the call.of duty
A pilot flying one of those damaged planes returning to England was the one that said "flying with a wing and a prayer" after was asked by the control tower how he was doing before landing
That was an excellent, short and concise storey that was amazing to hear. How brave airmen on both sides were.
Even though the Consolidated B-24 Liberator could carry a heavier bombload, fly further and was built in greater numbers than the Flying Forts, the B-17 remained a favorite among pilots and aircrews because of it's legendary toughness.
The Liberator was nicknamed the flying coffin. As one of the above posts noted, the B17 could stay in the air with 1 engine. If you lost 1 engine on a B24 you were in trouble. My Dad had a friend that flew B24's to Bomb the oil fields in Ploiesti Romania from North Africa. He used to tell stories of disassembling the plane to make it as light as possible to make it back. They ditched in the Mediterranean several times.
@@stevecraig6350 - Had a family friend who piloted a B-24 on the same raid, second wave as I remember it. Later flew over Italy and into Germany and back to North Africa. On one mission they were shot up pretty bad. Ended up behind his group and over north Italy was really lagging behind to the point he really had trouble seeing the planes in front. Usually, stragglers ended up being target practice for German fighters and his plane was vulnerable due to losses. Next thing he knew he had two fighters pull up on either side of his plane, wag their wings, and then took up positions above and behind him. Both were P-51’s with “red tails”, i.e. Tuskegee airmen. He was escorted long enough to get home unscathed. He thought they saved his airplane and his life.
@@OkieSketcher1949 I have read where 8th Air Force bomber pilots started requesting the Red Tails because they had a strong escorting record. It was an interesting time.
My dad was lead formation pilot flying B-17’s out of Foggia Italy. He flew 56 missions and never lost a crewman. In his trunk I found a letter from his commanding officer and a “Certificate of Valor. He was able to bring back a heavily damaged plane, flying it two hours with very limited control. After the war was won and he returned to a base in Florida, he was asked to get a jeep. He declined because he had never driven a car and did not know how. He had just turned 19.
Col. Richard Haals Sorenson, USAF
Heroes all!
Anyone who served in Europe and the pacific during WW2 is a hero in my eyes.
I thank you all for the life I live! 👏🙏
Thats one tough bird, and a courageous crew who kept her in the air as long as they could....
Those crews in the B -17s we heroes. All of them knew that their chances of survival were slim yet the heroes went up anyway. Incredible men. Incredible heroes of our country. Thank you.
Back in the late 40's when I was in grade school, there was a book in the school library that I read that detailed the amazing amount of damage that B-17's could sustain and still manage to limp back to friendly territory. Most of the details have slipped from my memory, but I recall that it was truly amazing!
I believe the name of the book was "Flying Fortress".
What an incredibly robust airframe and brilliant crew ..
Wow this reminds me of the time a BF109 escorted a heavily damage B-17 home. Franz Stigler and Charlie Brown, what a story that was
"A Higher Call" is the title of the book about that event.
My father was a Canadian despatch rider in England during the first Blitz, before he went to mainland Europe. He said that the planes he saw return the most damaged -- yet still flying -- were the Hawker Hurricanes.
I've been told, since I've never been there, that there is a painting on a wall at the 8th AF museum (or maybe it was the 390th BG museum) , of a B-17, with her gear down, being escorted down by 2 109s. That would be the 'Phyllis Marie'. My uncle Theo (dad's side) was the flight engineer/top turret gunner and spent the rest of the war as a POW.
Story my mother told me at his funeral (1990)
As allied troops approached, the Germans marched the POWs thru the snow away from the advancing front. Those that fell out, were shot by the guards. At one point, my uncle fell out, his buddies began yelling "Come on Tex", "Get up Tex", "You can make it Tex", when an officer in a car heard them and stopped. "You're from Texas?" Yes. "Come on get in the car, you know I visited Texas before the war...." and that's how he survived the war and came home.
At least, that's the story I was told.
Amazing. I guess it is a good example of "Don't give up!" Great Flight Crew.
.Perfect example of "Fly the aircraft to the scene of the crash". As taught in flight school. ;}
@@blogengeezer4507 👍
That's unbelievable. It almost looks like it was parked overnight in Chicago.
..Commander Lori Lightfoot... proudly walking away ..... from the crash. ;}
Naaa! It is more dangerous in Chicago.
The plane would have been stripped, and the crew robbed.
I doubt that those of the greatest generation would find your racial prejudice to be worth fighting for.
@@reallyhappenings5597 SHUT UP TRUTH HURTS DOESNT IT ???
Those B-17 bombing missions over Germany were brutal for every member in that bomber. The structure of the B-17 allowed it to take massive damage & still fly. 11 missions was the life expectancy of a crew member on a B 17. The weirdest story was the B 17 that landed at an allied airfield in Belgium but there was no crew inside it ! 91st Bomber Group the B 17 landed with flak damage after making its bombing run over the German oil fields.
Good Video/Work!!!!!....IT WAS AMAZING HOW TOUGH THESE B-17's AND A FEW OTHER PLANES WERE!!!!!! THAT'S WHAT THEY MEAN BY A WING AND A PRAYER!!!!!
An uncle ran away from home at 17, went to Canada and joined the RAF in December, 1939. Pearl Harbor obviously hadn't happened yet, but he was determined to get into the fight. He always said he was surprised they let him enlist, but they did. He flew a B-17 in Europe and almost went down in the Channel trying to get back to England after getting badly shot up. His father didn't forgive him until 1961.
They were all just boys! Amazing bravery. Nowadays we seem to go to pieces if the weather is a bit inclement.
During the whole war, 51% of aircrew were killed on operations, 12% were killed or wounded in non-operational accidents and 13% became prisoners of war or evaders. Only 24% survived the war unscathed.
In the RAF a tour was initially thirty operational flights, not exceeding 200 actual flying hours, which could last for any period from four months to a year. Pathfinder crews flew forty-five.
Have you read about the Nuremberg Raid by the RAF on 30/31 March 1944?
It was a disaster 96 of 779 bombers were shot down.
A cumulation of bad planning and perfect conditions for night fighters made it a turkey shoot for the Luftwaffe.
Are those figures for the RAF, the USAAF, or both?
@@Outlier999 probably close enough for either ... it was much worse to be on a bomber crew than to be an infantry man. At least the infantry could dig a hole or duck.
amazing how nearly all the damage is on the wings and tail but the parts holding the crew were not hit. very very skilled crew on board to make that happen, rip to the ones that died
My father was Army Air Corps stationed in the South Pacific during WWII and told many harrowing stories of B17’s in battle. The one that comes immediately to mind was of a landing wherein the entire mid-section of the plane had been shot away from the wings to the tail. The only thing keeping the tail section attached were the control cables. The tail-gunner having survived had to traverse the control cables hand-over-hand in mid-air to get into the main body of the air-craft...
Everyone knew what was going to happen when the plane landed: The tail-section would flip up and over impaling the fuselage. All of the remaining crew crammed as far forward into the cockpit as the limited space would allow. Have you ever been inside of a B17? The movies makes the interior look larger that it actually is. The quarters are really quite cramped...
The entire base was on deck to witness the landing as it had been announced over the PA. My father said as the plane lumbered in, it looked as though the tail-section was chasing the fuselage. As predicted when the B17 had landed and slowed so the tail could no longer ‘fly’ it immediately flipped up and forward as soon as it touch the runway. The rudder cut through the top-turret to quote my father ‘like a knife through butter’...
None of the surviving crew were injured in the landing. The only casualties on that mission were the waste gunners. Of those stories my father would often say ‘Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing...’ The B17 was called ‘The-Flying-Fortress’ because of the severe damage it could sustain and still fly. My father told many many stories of B17s with the nose shot off or missing a entire wing or with no tail-section or only having one engine operating while the remaining on fire or shot up full of holes looking like ‘Swiss-cheese’ and still able to return to base and land...
Foot Note: My father said that you didn’t use the rudder to steer B17s in flight because the controls were too ‘heavy’. The pilot would adjust the speed of the engines to get the plane to turn. Depending if wanting to maneuver starboard or port would determine the RPM of each of the four engines. By raising the RPM of the out-board engine and decreasing the RPM of each subsequent engine the plane would ‘pivot’ in whichever direction desired. The higher the RPM of the out-board engine relative to the other engines the sharper the turn...
My father’s generation were truly ‘The Greatest Generation’. They survived The Great Depression as children and saved the world fighting WWII as young adults. And look what a mess of things we’ve made of the world they saved. In parting: I’d a great-grandmother who said that the depression of the 1880’s was much worse than the depression of the 1930’s, but that’s another story...
Amazing history. Salute to those brave men.
I knew a member of a World War II bomber. I think he was a belt gunner. I am not sure. But, he told me the flights were smooth, but cold and dark, with a constant droning. But, when the planes came close to their targets, lights brighter than anything he had ever seen, but the sun, beamed at the planes, lighting up the entrie interior of the bombers. A few minutes later, they enter the flak field. He said all feeling of being in an aircraft disappeared. It felt like being on the worse road possible on flat tires, with huge holes on the road. The sound was deafening to the point that almost no communication took place inside the bomber without hand signals and small black boards. It sounded like a huge hail storm with explosions mixed in while in a tin roof shack. Communication did not happen very much because all of them had a job to do. Rehearsing and training prepared none of them for the hellish lights, thunderous noise, and the violent jarring of the plane. As holes appeared in the fuselage, more light would filter in. The upward shadows from the wings often had beams of light appearing in the shadow due to new holes appearing. The job all of them had to do was the only thing that kept them sane in those conditions. The pilot could only hold his course. He could not take any actions to avoid any sort of cannon flak fire. Veering from his course could make the pilot lose his way in the lights and explosions. Every once in awhile, the light would get brighter, or a small moment of dark, would happen as the bomber was handed off from one spotlight to the next spotlight. He said it seemed like hours inside those conditions when it was actually only minutes. At the end of the bombing run, all would go dark and the whistling of the air flowing through flak holes, misfiring engines grinding, the smell of fuel and burning oil, and the sound of men crying.
A tribute to the great B-17! 👏🏼😎
My grandfather was a ball gunner on a B-17. His nickname was Shorty. One time his plane was so damaged that it crash landed in the English Channel. He along with most of the crew were fished out of the channel by the English equivalent of the Coast Guard.
He met my grandmother in England. They got married and after the war she came to America on the HMS Queen Mary. They settled in Maine and eventually moved to Los Angeles. He died in his sleep from a heart attack in the early 70’s.
Man that thing is shredded & it kept going. Impressive
My great-grandfather (He was American) at Auch5wItz, he took photos of the old gas tank machines. He also appeared at the Trials where the Nazi soldiers were charged for their crimes. he died in August of 2023 at 103 years old.
Thank you for your Service Mr. Ray!!
The problem with most damaged bombers is they could not keep up in formation. Once they fell behind they were easy targets for German fighters.
Incredible!!! It is amazing it was still flying with this damage...
The Generals wanted more B24's because they could carry more farther faster and higher. The Crews wanted B17's because they brought more of them back home.
Wow, what control. Glad the few were able to at least survive out of the plane.
Looks transparent like a ghost, but still flying. Amazing!!
It always amazed me the amount of abuse a B-17 could take before it was downed. Not all cases but seeing planes come back with virtually no tail or missing wing parts etc was truly amazing. I’m not a pilot but the skill involved in bringing those home is a testament to the flight crews and training. It was well designed aircraft in my estimation.
Now this would make a good movie. It's already got a title.
I flew on the ill fated B-17 909 about 1 year before it crashed. It amazed me how flimsy the plane was but how smooth it flew.
I exist due to death of a soldier on July 19, 1944 in B-17 42-102949 on its way to bomb the Messerschmitt Aircraft factory in Augsburg. Shot down over Gunzberg, only two got out and became POWs and survived the war. James was the ball turret gunner and did not get out. Locals buried him in a nearby cemetery and he was recovered after the war.
God Bless all those Brave Flyers!! R.I.P. 🙏🇺🇸😪
My dad was a radioman on a cruiser in the nort Pacific. One day he got a call from a bomber on it's way back from bombing mainlad Japan asking for a radio marker bearing so it could find it's way to base because their equipment was shot to heck. Dad sent the bearing signal and heard the plane near. Stepped out of radio shack as it passed directly overhead. He said there were so many holes in it it looked like Swiss cheese. They made it home with a little help.😊
The B-17 had a reputation for being able to absorb damage like this. I just wish this one could at least make it back to England.
"What was the worst part of the war dad?"
"One time I took an airplane out, but came back with only the air"
My dad flew B-17s, B-24s & B-25s & a night fighter I don't know the number of. I was born in 1952. Dad had bleeding ulcers & every year would save his vacation to go into the hospital to get them treated. He had nightmares, big nightmares, falling out of bed nightmares most every night until i was 10, when they got to be less. He was the greatest man I ever knew. Dad wouldn't talk much about the war but my aunt (his sister) told me he was listed MIA 5 times. He did tell me about 3 times he was shot down. When I was young, during winter when I got up (cold house), I would wear dad's bomber jacket. It was really warm. Dad I miss you.
I lived near an emergency landing strip near Birch in Essex. I saw an American bomber returning I could see the nose and wings. The fusalarge was invisible it looked like the tail was following behind. It was an amazing sight.
There must have been some connection all of the metal covering the body was gone. The crew must have sustained terrible hits.
I live just down the road from that airstrip; only one 0.7 mile straight piece of tarmac remains now, it's where the locals have their first experience of driving a car, as there's not a lot to crash into. Birch Airfield was sadly famous for a major fracas involving a GI and a local taxi driver. One of them died. Rivenhall aerodrome by contrast, has many of the billets and nissen huts remaining...even the old cinema still stands.
That must have been the occasion when a B17 took part in a raid on Taranto in Italy. I have seen a photo of this event, the plane being flown all the way back to England with the fuselage almost cut in two. That was caused by damaged Messerschmidt 109 slicing through the B17. The crew rigged up a means to keep it from falling off by using parachute straps to brace the tail. By taking a very long turning detour so as not to stress everything the brilliant pilot managed to fly it back. All the while the tail gunner had to stay where he was, and just hope and pray!
The tail broke off completely when the plane landed, but everyone was safe.
The Triangle A on the tail places it in the the 91st Bomb Group Heavy flying out of Bassingbourn, England.
Nice One as always! Cheers
The courage to fly these planes into combat is incredible. Army Air Corp lost more servicemen then the Marine Corp in WW2.
This is why they call her the "Flying Fortress", they can absorb so many cannon, flak, and machine gun rounds its incredible.
My father was a radioman on a cruiser in the N. Pacific. One day a light bommer pilot called for a location signal because his on board equipment was damaged. My dad sent the signal and the pilot thanked him. Dad heard the plane passing and stepped out of the radio room and looked up just as it went right over the ship. He said you could see light through the whole plane.like it was made of Swiss cheese. Figured that guy was one hell of a pilot to get that thing back to base. Always said he wished he'd wrote the man's name down so he could find out if he made it through the war.
These guys fought and died for our freedom. I will never forget that. May all the veterans who died be remembered.
The B-17 was an awesome bomber in many ways.
I've lived near the 100th bomb group, Thorpe Abbotts all my life.
The control tower is restored and the museum inside is a very moving story indeed, some of the stories of these incredible aircraft and those brave lads make well up.😢
My dad's first cousin was in the 100th. His first mission was in January 1945. He got in 27 missions before the war ended. During one mission he had a midair collision with another B17. All 9 members of the other B17 died after they took a direct hit from flak. The stricken airplane clipped my cousins airplane on the way down. They made it safely back to Thorpe Abbot with a damaged wing.
Amazing, simply amazing.
this is an incredible feat of engineering, rip to the crew who died
Research the B-17 called All American. It was nearly cut in two when struck by am out of control German fighter aircraft. There are pictures taken from another B-17 and you can look right through the All American and see the sky beyond it. After the fighter aircraft's wing sliced through the B-19 like a hot knife through warm butter the tail section was swaying three or more feet from side to side as the aircraft flew. The pilot and co-pilot were sure if they used the rudder to steer the rear section of the aircraft would break loose. So to make course corrections/steer they would throttle up the engines on one side and throttle back the engines on the other side and sort of pivot the aircraft around. After landing at it's base the tail section broke off falling on the tarmac. Boeing designers and engineers looked over the damaged aircraft and said it was impossible for it to have flown and remain together after being hit. But it did. It brought it's crew home before it broke in two.
Those B-17s were true beasts. Nearly 13,000 of them were built. Yes, 13,000.
A great-uncle was a B-17 co-pilot and was down in NW Germany in February 1944 and spent the rest of the war in Stalag Luft I.
The Allies commissioned a study on how to make these planes and other bombers more survivable from taking hits. A few different fields of study from different people, like statisticians, aircraft engineers, weapon designers, etc...
They went out to look at the planes that were damaged that we able to land. Some just had a few holes in them, others had giant chucks missing.
One fellow noted that all of the hits and major damage were in certain areas of the planes. So he stated that all of the other areas not hit my flak or bullets, should be up-armored and made stronger.
The fact that these planes were all hit in the same general area proved to them that the planes can take a great deal of damage in these locations.. but, the planes that get hit in the other areas are not coming back.
It was a pretty neat study and used an almost reverse logic. You fix up what you can't see and leave the other areas alone. I believe after that some planes had to get rid of a a crew member or 2 to make way for the weight of the new armor and supports. Two men and two .50 machine guns weighs a lot.
It's hard to even imagine what these brave young men experienced.
My Dad was in Lancasters.
He didn't talk much about it.
The bravery of these guys…..👏👏👏👍👍👍👍 RESPECT++++