This is actually brilliant. I'm going to try out a roller bridge on my les paul thanks to your brilliant explanation. There's an old Chinese proverb: It is not the way that makes the man great, but the man that makes the way great. I look forward to your future videos!
wow, great video and nice close up shots! would even be better if there was a close up shot of a normal bridge saddle and a string actually getting out of tune when using the tremolo arm (by marking the string in the middle oer something like that). Keep up these video`s!
Thank you for your well researched and informative videos. You illustrate the problem, address alternative solutions and both explain and provide high resolution pictures of the mechanics solving the problem. Your channel is the most in depth repair source on the internet bar none.
I recently put a tune-o-matic roller bridge on my Gretsch because its stock 'rocker' bridge has no means of adjusting intonation. The roller bridge intonates perfectly, BUT the groove depth in the rollers is the same for all strings, which you can see in this video. This means that it's too easy to knock the low E and A strings off the roller with only the slightest provocation. Bummer.
Seems more downward pressure is needed on unwound strings. Note when bending up the roller was fine due to increased pressure. Slipped bending down resulting in less pressure and lost friction. Lowering the trem (if possible) for increased break angle or raising the bridge a tad could solve.
Pedal Steel Guitars are equipped with Rollers at the nut & they do a fine job when a pedal is depressed & then released (pitch raise & dropped back down to the original pitch on a string). Just as long as the rollers are well lubricated, rotating smoothly & not all gunked-up with Beer, Sweat etc 🤠. PS - also, be sure to keep yer ROLOS clear of the Rollers - they are Not Compatible, especially on a Hot day.
I have a Gretsch on the way. I like the Bigsby look but am fully aware it will go out of tune, unfortunately. The only tremelo I ever had that did not was a floyd rose. Pain to restring but worth it. It just would not look right on a hollowbody though!
Absolutely perfect! I bought a relatively cheap Gretsch a couple of years ago. It was a gorgeous looking and great sounding G6522T in a walnut finish and it had a Bigsby. I was aware of the fact that these things aren’t made for dive bombing, but that was okay, because I just wanted to gently wiggle that Bigsby arm up and down. I was so extremely disappointed, because the guitar would go out of tune even when I was just watching it. I sold it a few years later and I never used it. ☹️ However, I’ve always been in love with similar Gretsch guitars for numerous reasons and now I decided to take it more seriously. I’m going for my dream guitar, the Gretsch Black Falcon G3363T PE DC!!! Now this IS an expensive guitar and I expect it to stay in tune much better. But even much better isn’t enough if it goes out of tune anyway. So I wanted to know what my options are. How do I make a Bigsby work properly? This video already taught me more than I hoped to learn. I’m feeling much more confident now. So thanks a lot!!! 🧡😊
It’s gonna be difficult to make a Gretsch stay in tune, due to the headstock and nut design. The strings on most Gretsch Guitars fan out towards the tuning post more than they do on a Gibson design. Plus the way they cut the nut on a Gretsch really doesn’t help. That’s vintage spec for you.
@@GuitarQuackery : Thanks! I really appreciate your honest answer. I would have liked a more positive one, given the fact that it’s not a cheap instrument. At least I know that I won’t be able to play it without going out of tune. Thanks! 😅👍
@@mariodriessen9740 I'm sure it can be played with a Bigsby and not going too much out of tune, if you stick to vibratos that are not too extreme. I would also entertain the idea of having a custom made String Butler made, to replace the truss rod cover. It would be costly, but I think it would improve things a bit. You would also have to make sure the nut is cut just right, especially if you do end up installing a String Butler type of accessory, which would alter the string break angle at the nut. Hope this makes sense.
You make a very good point. I didn’t think of that. In fact, you just gave me an idea. This is steady customer of mine, so it’s just a matter of time when he will bring the guitar back for a setup. Let’s examine this bridge after one year, and see. I really think you have a good point and I guess it depends how heavy one goes on the lubricant. Thanks for pointing this out.
Does a roller bridge introduce any parasitic losses to high frequencies or sustain? My guess is that it would rob some kinetic energy as the vibrations travel from the string to the roller to its loose-fitting shaft.
I would say you are right about that. There are laws of physics about conservation of energy. So, if there are objects that can be made to move (or vibrate) against each other, then for sure part of the energy from the vibrating string is used to move those small objects. Without trying to sound like I pretend to be an expert, I would speculate that whatever the resonance frequencies of those objects are, those would be the frequencies that would be depleted from the spectrum of vibrations, so I would speculate that in theory, yes, they change the tone, which in turn changes sustain. I think it would be quite interesting to build some kind of rig that would produce some conclusive test results. Thanks for your comment. PS - It's fascinating how the energy from the sun is transferred to the plants, then to humans who eat the plants, then to the arm that strikes a guitar string, then the string moves the magnetic fields around the pickups (and the small bridge rollers, LOL), then through the electronic circuits the energy eventually moves the speaker cone, etc... Fascinating stuff.
@@ErebosGR Guess it depends on design and quality of the roller bridge. Recently changed the tune’o’matic on my Gretsch to a Duesenberg trem and an ABM roller bridge, that gave me more sustain, probably because of the bridge having more mass to it. Also just changed a bridge on an LP Aria to a Schaller roller bridge, no noticeable difference in sustain, rings out as well as the original bridge it came with, I guess ABM would add on that guitar too, since they are heigher which means the posts are close to all the way down towards the body to get low string action. The difference between knife edge saddles and rollers shouldn’t have any major effect on sustain, material and how they are mounted might though.
I have a Gretch rat rod and I don't need a roller bridge. I use a Space Control Bridge and I have no issues at all. It's not the Gretsch usually It's the nut or not getting the slack out of the strings around the tuner posts.
You're 100% right about the nut being the #1 cause of tuning issues on a Bigsby-equipped guitar, followed by the slack on the tuners. The guitar in this video belongs to a very good a loyal customer of mine. However, I always end up spending more time on his guitars because he has very high standards. The first thing we did on his guitar is replace the nut. The original Gibson nut was TUSQ and the customer wanted TUSQ XL (despite my recommendation against it). I actually recorded a bunch of videos of the project, but have not yet had the chance to edit. Then, when he was convinced that TUSQ XL did not accomplish what he had hoped, he decided to take my recommendation and we installed a nylon nut. The video was posted a while back th-cam.com/video/8b1Su9HH7us/w-d-xo.html and I hope you have a minute to watch it. I also use a special wrap for the tuning posts, which simulates locking tuners, as it reduces the number of wraps to about 1/2 a wrap on each tuner. I am planning to post a video about that, as well. So, even with the nylon nut, the customer also wanted to have the roller bridge. It gave me the opportunity to make this video. Hope this makes sense. Thanks for chiming in.
@@viperBSG I guess you're right. He in fact does not have a Tele. He mostly buys acoustic guitars, but lately he bought a couple of electrics. Every tome he buys a guitar he says it's the last one he'll buy. Were have I heard that before?
Great video. Will take this into account when I change my Gretsch SynchroSonic bridge to a roller bridge this weekend. What make and model roller bridge was used for this installation?
The customer supplied it, but I'm pretty sure it was this one amzn.to/48WWDR4 (BW, this is an affiliate link, which means I get a small commission at no extra cost to you). You have to make sure you have the correct post spacing, radius across the saddles, string spacing and post diameter. Hope this helps.
Just wondering how string break angle between saddle roller and trem would make a difference in pressure on the roller and in string to roller contact area.
I would speculate, increase break angle would increase pressure, which is like adding more weight on top of the rollers. This is the formula to calculate friction. Ffrict = µ • Fnorm The µ is the friction coefficient. Since we did not change the roughness or smoothness of the surface areas, by adding more pressure or weight, it means that we did not change the friction coefficient, which in turn means the result will be the same. To change the results, we need to change the friction coefficient. We need to smooth-out the contact surface between the roller and the shaft and/or rough-up the surface between the roller and the string. Once we do that, the friction coefficient between the roller and the shaft changes and/or so does the friction coefficient between the roller and the string. With that modification, the result will be different than before.
if you could increase friction on the plain (e/b/g) strings' rollers v-notch where they contact with the strings, wouldn't this improve the roller bridge performance? i'm thinking an application of a very thin rubberized? or a hardened abrasive (sandpaper-like) surface in the roller saddles' v-notch would "grab" the plain strings better when vibrato arm is used and force roller bearing to do its job and slide... and hopefully return those strings back to original pitches
That's a very good idea I have not thought of. I guess that would be a good walk-around, although in a perfect world we would want to decrease friction on the roller shafts. But that would require some precision parts fabrication, I guess approaching the level of a Swiss watch. I like the idea.
@@GuitarQuackery the "perfect world" is all strings returning to pitch with at least moderate vibrato use. to me, that's decreasing friction on the rollers shafts but increasing friction at the string-to-roller interface. maybe as long as there is low is minimal friction at either location, the string has a better chance to return to original tension anyways and I'm overthinking this shit 😂
This viewer is unable to tell if you are just having us on or if you're genuine! With the Bigsby, there are four points of contact and therefore 4 loci of friction. The barrel the strings are attached to, the top bar that puts tension on the saddles, and of course the bridge and nut. If we want a small amount of friction on the thinnest strings, shouldn't the groove be narrower? Alternatively, perhaps one could slightly increase the friction of the string itself by lightly sanding with a very fine emery cloth?
Let me go over your questions. I'm not having you on, when it comes to the accuracy of the information. The channel is presenting serious information, although there is occasional humor, just to make the presentations different. Friction doesn't quite work in the way that most of us think, intuitively. I vividly remember that being one of the pivotal points in my own education, in high school, as I've learned that fact in my mechanics class (I attended a tech high school). The size of the surface area does not influence friction in any way. The way my high school mechanics teacher explained it to me was through the formula f=μN, where friction "f" is equal to the friction coefficient "μ" times the normal force "N". The size of the surface area does not appear in the formula to calculate friction. Roughing up the surface will change the friction "f" simply because the rougher surface will result in a higher friction coefficient "μ" and the higher the friction coefficient "μ" is, the higher the friction "f" will be. The normal force "N" is always perpendicular to the surface. This also gets people confused if the surface is parallel to the ground, as the trajectory of the normal force "N" will be aligned with the trajectory of the gravity force. But the normal force "N" will clearly be at an angle, as soon as you tilt the surface. Of course, in our case (i.e. the string going over a saddle, under full string tension) gravity will play a minimal role and can be ignored. Also, I believe there is one more point of contact for the string: the tuning post. But those point of contact, which are strictly for the string, are not the only points of friction. I hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery I thought you were having a bit of fun but wasn’t 100%. With respect to increasing the coefficient of friction on the smaller strings, my thought was that it might promote rolling over sliding.
I have tried a roller brige but the bass string i mean the low E when i use the bigsby finaly makes go out in the front the srew of it a few month later. It mean the tension is very string the srews must be well fixed at the end and some are not well fixed. So be very careful to choose a roller brige with always nut a the end of the srew, becouse the cheapest are without nuts and they are not good at all.
I know my ignorance is showing, but shouldn't the tolerance between the roller and the shaft be a tad closer? It feels like those rollers would fight friction better with a tighter tolerance shaft? Ideally could retain lubrication better as well?
I personally think that rendering the surface smooth is key to reducing friction. The formula to calculate friction is Ffrict = µ • Fnorm (friction force = friction coefficient multiplied by normal force). So, the lower the friction coefficient is, the lower the friction will be. And the smoother the surface is, the lower the friction coefficient is.
@@GuitarQuackery but taking that into account, how is the friction coefficient affected if the roller is not skin to skin with its own axle? I understand that the smoothness of the shaft inside the roller is important but if it's not hugging close to that surface is not the friction coefficient reduced by repeated impacts between the roller and its axle? Not under gentle use but under regular use for anyone who uses the Bigsby with any regularity .
@@PartnersInCrimePhoto I believe this is the biggest misconception about how friction works. We all intuitively think that the surface area has something to do with friction, but it actually does not. This is why surface area does not appear anywhere in the formula for calculating friction. I’m sure there must be some physics channels that talk about that and that probably explain it a lot better than I can. But again, there are only two parameters that affect the friction. It is the friction coefficient, and the normal force. Hope this makes sense.
I believe you are referring to the bridge posts. The bridge posts themselves are screwed into threaded bushings, with a lot of slop. So the bridge posts are in fact wiggly. The question is, do they reset back to the same position after the strings are played or bent, or after the use of the vibrato?
@@farber2 The answer is not going to be the same for every guitar and bridge of the same make and model. These guitar parts are so poorly made, variations are quite significant. To have any amount of reliability, these guitar parts would have to be made to a tighter tolerance. Some aftermarket guitar parts are in fact better made. The Mastery bridge for the Fender Jazzmaster comes to mind. But Gibson, Fender, Epiphone and Squire parts have too many loose and wiggly parts, made to loose tolerances.
“Oops.” 😂😂😂 (Sorry, but that was funny.) Do you think your Teflon/based lubricant won’t, eventually, migrate to the saddle, (when your applicator “slipped”, more than once), mitigating the solution. Using the same logic, wouldn’t it be just as “beneficial” to sand to roller, to increase friction, on the string? Also, the stud, which holds the roller, acts as the bearing.
If the rollers are just sitting in there and can fall out easily, the bridge is basically useless. Break a string at a gig and goodbye to ever finding the roller
Good point. I never even thought of that. There seems to be just enough friction to hold them in. But I agree, this is a design that’s basically balanced at the edge of a cliff.
Dr Randy Andy is a genius !! By using an approach that incorporates general relativity,even the gravity waves emitted by your guitar stay in tune !!
Right on.
This is actually brilliant. I'm going to try out a roller bridge on my les paul thanks to your brilliant explanation.
There's an old Chinese proverb: It is not the way that makes the man great, but the man that makes the way great.
I look forward to your future videos!
I love the proverb. Thanks for sharing.
The detail you put into this was absolutely great. Taught me concepts I was always too lazy to learn because they seemed too technical.
I’m glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for stopping by.
wow, great video and nice close up shots! would even be better if there was a close up shot of a normal bridge saddle and a string actually getting out of tune when using the tremolo arm (by marking the string in the middle oer something like that). Keep up these video`s!
That's a great idea for another video.
Super video! Learned a ton about friction and its role in tunning! Neat stuff
Those old Chinese philosophers did in fact think of everything... even friction on roller bridges.
Thank you for your well researched and informative videos. You illustrate the problem, address alternative solutions and both explain and provide high resolution pictures of the mechanics solving the problem. Your channel is the most in depth repair source on the internet bar none.
Glad to hear this was helpful to you. Welcome aboard.
And if you have a minute, please post this video on a guitar forum.
I really like your humour and "way of doing things"! Subscribed! :D
Welcome aboard!
some quack!! great help!! thanx!
Quackery is King. Thanks for dropping by.
Very informative approach with the detailed shots of the rollers! 👍🏻
Glad to hear it was helpful to you. Thanks.
Informative, thank you!
Thanks for watching!
I recently put a tune-o-matic roller bridge on my Gretsch because its stock 'rocker' bridge has no means of adjusting intonation. The roller bridge intonates perfectly, BUT the groove depth in the rollers is the same for all strings, which you can see in this video. This means that it's too easy to knock the low E and A strings off the roller with only the slightest provocation. Bummer.
Good point. Some of those guitars just don’t have enough of a break angle across the saddles.
Seems more downward pressure is needed on unwound strings. Note when bending up the roller was fine due to increased pressure. Slipped bending down resulting in less pressure and lost friction. Lowering the trem (if possible) for increased break angle or raising the bridge a tad could solve.
Less friction between the roller and the small shaft would help. The problem is that those are cheap parts, so they are not well made.
Pedal Steel Guitars are equipped with Rollers at the nut & they do a fine job when a pedal is depressed & then released (pitch raise & dropped back down to the original pitch on a string). Just as long as the rollers are well lubricated, rotating smoothly & not all gunked-up with Beer, Sweat etc 🤠.
PS - also, be sure to keep yer ROLOS clear of the Rollers - they are Not Compatible, especially on a Hot day.
Thanks for sharing.
I have a Gretsch on the way. I like the Bigsby look but am fully aware it will go out of tune, unfortunately. The only tremelo I ever had that did not was a floyd rose. Pain to restring but worth it. It just would not look right on a hollowbody though!
Old Chinese proverb:
A Bigsby is typically used for lightweight boxing.
But a Floyd Rose is for heavyweight boxing.
I like the way you think.
And I think I like what you’re saying… LOL.
Just kidding. Thank you very much for visiting. And I hope you enjoy the rest of the videos.
Absolutely perfect!
I bought a relatively cheap Gretsch a couple of years ago. It was a gorgeous looking and great sounding G6522T in a walnut finish and it had a Bigsby. I was aware of the fact that these things aren’t made for dive bombing, but that was okay, because I just wanted to gently wiggle that Bigsby arm up and down. I was so extremely disappointed, because the guitar would go out of tune even when I was just watching it. I sold it a few years later and I never used it. ☹️
However, I’ve always been in love with similar Gretsch guitars for numerous reasons and now I decided to take it more seriously. I’m going for my dream guitar, the Gretsch Black Falcon G3363T PE DC!!! Now this IS an expensive guitar and I expect it to stay in tune much better. But even much better isn’t enough if it goes out of tune anyway. So I wanted to know what my options are. How do I make a Bigsby work properly?
This video already taught me more than I hoped to learn. I’m feeling much more confident now. So thanks a lot!!! 🧡😊
It’s gonna be difficult to make a Gretsch stay in tune, due to the headstock and nut design. The strings on most Gretsch Guitars fan out towards the tuning post more than they do on a Gibson design. Plus the way they cut the nut on a Gretsch really doesn’t help.
That’s vintage spec for you.
@@GuitarQuackery : Thanks! I really appreciate your honest answer. I would have liked a more positive one, given the fact that it’s not a cheap instrument. At least I know that I won’t be able to play it without going out of tune. Thanks! 😅👍
@@mariodriessen9740 I'm sure it can be played with a Bigsby and not going too much out of tune, if you stick to vibratos that are not too extreme.
I would also entertain the idea of having a custom made String Butler made, to replace the truss rod cover. It would be costly, but I think it would improve things a bit. You would also have to make sure the nut is cut just right, especially if you do end up installing a String Butler type of accessory, which would alter the string break angle at the nut.
Hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery : It does make sense. Absolutely! I want nothing else than very subtle vibratos anyway. Thanks for your advice. 😊
Thank God a real scientist that understands guitar physics!
Thanks for dropping by. Please tell your friends. It helps the channel grow. So I can make more.
Need to knurl the plain string spot on that roller. It’s common o. You just proved it!!!
I wouldn't knurl the string. It would be better to rough up the string groove on the roller.
You know that's just gonna gum all up and Powder graphite is the way to go
You make a very good point. I didn’t think of that. In fact, you just gave me an idea. This is steady customer of mine, so it’s just a matter of time when he will bring the guitar back for a setup. Let’s examine this bridge after one year, and see. I really think you have a good point and I guess it depends how heavy one goes on the lubricant. Thanks for pointing this out.
Does a roller bridge introduce any parasitic losses to high frequencies or sustain?
My guess is that it would rob some kinetic energy as the vibrations travel from the string to the roller to its loose-fitting shaft.
I would say you are right about that. There are laws of physics about conservation of energy. So, if there are objects that can be made to move (or vibrate) against each other, then for sure part of the energy from the vibrating string is used to move those small objects.
Without trying to sound like I pretend to be an expert, I would speculate that whatever the resonance frequencies of those objects are, those would be the frequencies that would be depleted from the spectrum of vibrations, so I would speculate that in theory, yes, they change the tone, which in turn changes sustain.
I think it would be quite interesting to build some kind of rig that would produce some conclusive test results.
Thanks for your comment.
PS - It's fascinating how the energy from the sun is transferred to the plants, then to humans who eat the plants, then to the arm that strikes a guitar string, then the string moves the magnetic fields around the pickups (and the small bridge rollers, LOL), then through the electronic circuits the energy eventually moves the speaker cone, etc... Fascinating stuff.
@@ErebosGR Guess it depends on design and quality of the roller bridge.
Recently changed the tune’o’matic on my Gretsch to a Duesenberg trem and an ABM roller bridge, that gave me more sustain, probably because of the bridge having more mass to it.
Also just changed a bridge on an LP Aria to a Schaller roller bridge, no noticeable difference in sustain, rings out as well as the original bridge it came with, I guess ABM would add on that guitar too, since they are heigher which means the posts are close to all the way down towards the body to get low string action.
The difference between knife edge saddles and rollers shouldn’t have any major effect on sustain, material and how they are mounted might though.
I have a Gretch rat rod and I don't need a roller bridge. I use a Space Control Bridge and I have no issues at all. It's not the Gretsch usually It's the nut or not getting the slack out of the strings around the tuner posts.
You're 100% right about the nut being the #1 cause of tuning issues on a Bigsby-equipped guitar, followed by the slack on the tuners.
The guitar in this video belongs to a very good a loyal customer of mine. However, I always end up spending more time on his guitars because he has very high standards.
The first thing we did on his guitar is replace the nut. The original Gibson nut was TUSQ and the customer wanted TUSQ XL (despite my recommendation against it). I actually recorded a bunch of videos of the project, but have not yet had the chance to edit.
Then, when he was convinced that TUSQ XL did not accomplish what he had hoped, he decided to take my recommendation and we installed a nylon nut. The video was posted a while back th-cam.com/video/8b1Su9HH7us/w-d-xo.html and I hope you have a minute to watch it.
I also use a special wrap for the tuning posts, which simulates locking tuners, as it reduces the number of wraps to about 1/2 a wrap on each tuner. I am planning to post a video about that, as well.
So, even with the nylon nut, the customer also wanted to have the roller bridge. It gave me the opportunity to make this video.
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks for chiming in.
@@GuitarQuackery thank you, It does. I take it your customer isn't fond of Telecasters then?
@@viperBSG I guess you're right. He in fact does not have a Tele.
He mostly buys acoustic guitars, but lately he bought a couple of electrics. Every tome he buys a guitar he says it's the last one he'll buy. Were have I heard that before?
Great video. Will take this into account when I change my Gretsch SynchroSonic bridge to a roller bridge this weekend.
What make and model roller bridge was used for this installation?
The customer supplied it, but I'm pretty sure it was this one amzn.to/48WWDR4 (BW, this is an affiliate link, which means I get a small commission at no extra cost to you).
You have to make sure you have the correct post spacing, radius across the saddles, string spacing and post diameter.
Hope this helps.
Just wondering how string break angle between saddle roller and trem would make a difference in pressure on the roller and in string to roller contact area.
I would speculate, increase break angle would increase pressure, which is like adding more weight on top of the rollers.
This is the formula to calculate friction.
Ffrict = µ • Fnorm
The µ is the friction coefficient. Since we did not change the roughness or smoothness of the surface areas, by adding more pressure or weight, it means that we did not change the friction coefficient, which in turn means the result will be the same.
To change the results, we need to change the friction coefficient. We need to smooth-out the contact surface between the roller and the shaft and/or rough-up the surface between the roller and the string.
Once we do that, the friction coefficient between the roller and the shaft changes and/or so does the friction coefficient between the roller and the string. With that modification, the result will be different than before.
if you could increase friction on the plain (e/b/g) strings' rollers v-notch where they contact with the strings, wouldn't this improve the roller bridge performance? i'm thinking an application of a very thin rubberized? or a hardened abrasive (sandpaper-like) surface in the roller saddles' v-notch would "grab" the plain strings better when vibrato arm is used and force roller bearing to do its job and slide... and hopefully return those strings back to original pitches
That's a very good idea I have not thought of. I guess that would be a good walk-around, although in a perfect world we would want to decrease friction on the roller shafts. But that would require some precision parts fabrication, I guess approaching the level of a Swiss watch. I like the idea.
@@GuitarQuackery the "perfect world" is all strings returning to pitch with at least moderate vibrato use. to me, that's decreasing friction on the rollers shafts but increasing friction at the string-to-roller interface. maybe as long as there is low is minimal friction at either location, the string has a better chance to return to original tension anyways and I'm overthinking this shit 😂
@@spectaculous1977 I think you're right.
This viewer is unable to tell if you are just having us on or if you're genuine! With the Bigsby, there are four points of contact and therefore 4 loci of friction. The barrel the strings are attached to, the top bar that puts tension on the saddles, and of course the bridge and nut. If we want a small amount of friction on the thinnest strings, shouldn't the groove be narrower? Alternatively, perhaps one could slightly increase the friction of the string itself by lightly sanding with a very fine emery cloth?
Let me go over your questions.
I'm not having you on, when it comes to the accuracy of the information. The channel is presenting serious information, although there is occasional humor, just to make the presentations different.
Friction doesn't quite work in the way that most of us think, intuitively. I vividly remember that being one of the pivotal points in my own education, in high school, as I've learned that fact in my mechanics class (I attended a tech high school).
The size of the surface area does not influence friction in any way.
The way my high school mechanics teacher explained it to me was through the formula f=μN, where friction "f" is equal to the friction coefficient "μ" times the normal force "N". The size of the surface area does not appear in the formula to calculate friction.
Roughing up the surface will change the friction "f" simply because the rougher surface will result in a higher friction coefficient "μ" and the higher the friction coefficient "μ" is, the higher the friction "f" will be.
The normal force "N" is always perpendicular to the surface. This also gets people confused if the surface is parallel to the ground, as the trajectory of the normal force "N" will be aligned with the trajectory of the gravity force. But the normal force "N" will clearly be at an angle, as soon as you tilt the surface.
Of course, in our case (i.e. the string going over a saddle, under full string tension) gravity will play a minimal role and can be ignored.
Also, I believe there is one more point of contact for the string: the tuning post. But those point of contact, which are strictly for the string, are not the only points of friction.
I hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery I thought you were having a bit of fun but wasn’t 100%. With respect to increasing the coefficient of friction on the smaller strings, my thought was that it might promote rolling over sliding.
I have tried a roller brige but the bass string i mean the low E when i use the bigsby finaly makes go out in the front the srew of it a few month later. It mean the tension is very string the srews must be well fixed at the end and some are not well fixed. So be very careful to choose a roller brige with always nut a the end of the srew, becouse the cheapest are without nuts and they are not good at all.
I think any cheap guitar hardware components will always be inferior.
I know my ignorance is showing, but shouldn't the tolerance between the roller and the shaft be a tad closer? It feels like those rollers would fight friction better with a tighter tolerance shaft? Ideally could retain lubrication better as well?
I personally think that rendering the surface smooth is key to reducing friction. The formula to calculate friction is Ffrict = µ • Fnorm (friction force = friction coefficient multiplied by normal force). So, the lower the friction coefficient is, the lower the friction will be. And the smoother the surface is, the lower the friction coefficient is.
@@GuitarQuackery but taking that into account, how is the friction coefficient affected if the roller is not skin to skin with its own axle? I understand that the smoothness of the shaft inside the roller is important but if it's not hugging close to that surface is not the friction coefficient reduced by repeated impacts between the roller and its axle? Not under gentle use but under regular use for anyone who uses the Bigsby with any regularity .
@@PartnersInCrimePhoto I believe this is the biggest misconception about how friction works. We all intuitively think that the surface area has something to do with friction, but it actually does not. This is why surface area does not appear anywhere in the formula for calculating friction.
I’m sure there must be some physics channels that talk about that and that probably explain it a lot better than I can.
But again, there are only two parameters that affect the friction. It is the friction coefficient, and the normal force.
Hope this makes sense.
Humorous "Old Chinese Saying"... also thick book on lubricating roller bridges.
The book has a few extra pages for some bonus materials.
How about slop in the holes where the bridge mounts to the pins?
I believe you are referring to the bridge posts. The bridge posts themselves are screwed into threaded bushings, with a lot of slop. So the bridge posts are in fact wiggly.
The question is, do they reset back to the same position after the strings are played or bent, or after the use of the vibrato?
@@GuitarQuackery Yeah, does it return?
@@farber2 The answer is not going to be the same for every guitar and bridge of the same make and model. These guitar parts are so poorly made, variations are quite significant. To have any amount of reliability, these guitar parts would have to be made to a tighter tolerance.
Some aftermarket guitar parts are in fact better made. The Mastery bridge for the Fender Jazzmaster comes to mind. But Gibson, Fender, Epiphone and Squire parts have too many loose and wiggly parts, made to loose tolerances.
@@GuitarQuackery I just replaced my Schecter bridge with a Gotoh, and it's great.
@@farber2 Gotoh does make good stuff.
Will the lubricant reduce the amount of tone?
I do not know what the word tone means.
“Oops.” 😂😂😂 (Sorry, but that was funny.)
Do you think your Teflon/based lubricant won’t, eventually, migrate to the saddle, (when your applicator “slipped”, more than once), mitigating the solution.
Using the same logic, wouldn’t it be just as “beneficial” to sand to roller, to increase friction, on the string?
Also, the stud, which holds the roller, acts as the bearing.
Yes, you can rough up the string groove on the roller, to increase friction.
If the rollers are just sitting in there and can fall out easily, the bridge is basically useless. Break a string at a gig and goodbye to ever finding the roller
Good point. I never even thought of that.
There seems to be just enough friction to hold them in. But I agree, this is a design that’s basically balanced at the edge of a cliff.