Andy Stanley: Unhitched, Empathetic, and Out Of Control | Live Stream with Pastor Joel Webbon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- Join us as Pastor Joel weighs in on Andy Stanley and his recent statements.
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I couldn't say these things in Canada without being arrested and going to jail. Thank God for the 1st Amendment!
Canada is a place of immense persecution.
The new world order controls Canada
Not even in Christian circles can you say many of these things in Canada 😢
@@heathermcbride1057 I know! It almost makes me choke calling them 'Christian' circles. I've been ousted from my local ministerial for my views on this and covid.
I agree. I am sorry to hear you were ousted because of your views. I just left - it’s a long story. Hard to explain here. Let’s just say I was the only one who doesn’t think women can be pastors.
Beckett Cook, our dear brother in Christ, is both a witness and a testimony of Gods heart on this matter. I would recommend his channel for anyone seeking freedom from such a life style, and as a resource to send people to on the matter.
Christopher Yuan and Rosaria Butterfield are also very outspoken about their regeneration and leaving their sin behind.
It must be such a betrayal to have decided to forego a romantic/sexual relationship because you are obedient to Christ's teachings, to have picked up and carried your cross and to then have elders say it was all for nothing? That you could have just indulged your desires anyway?
Or those heterosexual ppl who have simply never found a spouse despite wanting a family and have lived chaste who now see churches blessing gay unions?
It must be such a slap in the face.
@@littleboots9800good point
A little over two and a half years ago, I left a church whose pastor is a big Andy Stanley fan. He made at least two pilgrimages to Northpointe a year. Stanley's books were everywhere. He regularly admitted to seeking the advice of various leaders at Northpointe.
I struggle to not hold Andy Stanley in open contempt and allow my language to follow suit. I commend his debate (if you can call it that) with Jeff Durbin where Andy's incoherent positions make you start to feel sorry for him in the face of Durbin's positions. I also commend James White's recent response to Andy's foolishness as well.
For me, I watched a man I confidently cast a vote to call to be our pastor go from an above average expositor of the Word to a below average paint by numbers thematic motivational speaker because of the influence of Andy Stanley. The problem was the warnings I gave to elders and other pastors of the church fell on deaf ears. I watched the weekly altar call stop using words like sin and repent. I watched capitulation to the world replace sound teaching from God's word. I watched what I dubbed the emotional prosperity gospel take center stage. I spoke out about the utter lack of Biblical truth in his messages only to be met with "oh but he memorizes every sermon and rehearses it endlessly". I warned anyone who would listen. When my family and I left only a couple older people we knew said good bye. Once we settled, we found a church and found several former elders and other prominent leaders in the church all of whom had similar experiences.
If your pastor starts down this path, don't do what I did and wait two years trying to get people to see. Andy Stanley's theology is as insidious as it is incoherent. Pray, make your resignation statement, then leave. Don't waste your time trying to change things unless you feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit and even then seek clarification for what exactly it is He is convicting you to do.
When the worship goes from Thee (the Lord) to me, it's time to kick the dust off your feet.
My mega church pastor was getting smug around some of the the same issues that Stanley is. Now the pastor is potentially going to jail and the church has imploded. Unfortunately, my new church is affiliated with north point and we have watched a few Andy Stanley series. Hopefully we disassociate.
My husband and I used to attend Andy Stanley's church. Slowly over time, I noticed heretical teachings taking center stage. I also listened to his leadership podcast and began to see the trend of presenting heresy to the leadership before bringing it into the church. Since my husband & I were small group leaders, we sat as Andy explained how we needed to unhitch ourselves from the OT because it was harmful to those living alternative lifestyles who love God and want to be close to God. Then he presented some books written by heretical gay pastors who affirmed his position. Never once did he actually bring any Scripture into the conversation to support his viewpoint because it was in the OT. Never mind the Scripture in the NT where Paul and others address it. He repeated heretical teachings that believe Paul was teaching against pedophilia, not homosexuality. Despite the warning bells, we stayed for another couple of years. It's like we couldn't believe our beloved pet had turned on us and killed someone. I was the one who was the most vocal against Andy. My husband has taken longer to see his heresy. But he did move our family to a sound biblical church in 2019 because we weren't getting anything out of the Ted Talk Style messages any more. Then 2020 lock downs sealed the deal, so to speak. Almost 4 years later, my husband is finally on the same page. But unfortunately I think we may have to leave our new church because there are so many former Stanley-ites at this church who came due to the pandemic. I am not sure they are there because they saw the heresies being promoted by Stanley. I'm afraid they will end up corrupting this new church. The pastor has not taken a stance against Andy, and many former staff members from Andy's churches have moved there too. I'm unsure of the motivation. Was it the pandemic? Or do they also see the dangerous heresy? Time will tell. Everyone assumes that Charles Stanley should have said something to his son. Perhaps Charles Stanley was also moving away from the faith, but he hadn't talked about it publicly yet. If it's not important enough for you to address something publicly that has become public, then it isn't something of value to you. Silence = approval
@@kipacha1 Talk to your pastor. I had similar concerns at my new church when seeing so many familiar faces. Chances are your pastor knows who is coming in and what dangers are represented.
@@kipacha1let me guess... local church? I'm also someone who saw the spiral down of Andy and npcc in the last decade. The unhitch was weird. Didn't make sense. It was more like Andy was lame. Then he got political and then 2020 came and it was very apparent he was liberal. He loves being interviewed by leftist magazines and msnbc. I quit then. Problem was the kids were plugged in. That continues to actually be a good program, but i haven't attended a service in a long time. The gay stuff was obvious what the unhitch was about. I hope to find another church. The goodwill he had from the church in the early 2000s has been squandered for sure. He's like Solomon, going from wise to running off with idols in his (old) age
Beckett cook is a perfect example of a former homosexual who is now a blood bought, born again, child of God! I was an absolute hater of homosexuals before I got saved and now I have a love for them like anybody else. Thanks for the Andy update, I guess!
Love your new studio.
And Andy Stanley must be called out.
Loudly, and with vigor.
God bless you and your beautiful family.
Before God judges him will he send brothers to confront. Andy in private. ANNANIS AND Saphifra or example of God's judgement. Like judgement on the spot
zI saw this in my life watching him The zHoly spirit showed me his apostate teaching.
Beware Saints of GOD.
I'm AC5 quadriplegic have been since I broke my neck at 16. I'm thankful to God for it's one of the things that started me reading The Bible which opened my eyes about 3 years later. Having said that, that was a terrible analogy Andy Stanley made.
Hope your are having a blessed day.
@@pedrovilchez1688 I am brother, you as well.
Agreed! My thoughts exactly…thanks for sharing 😃
Thank you Pastor Joel,we appreciate for wisdom and love for truth.
"...you lose a sense of continuity..." from the beginning to the end of Scripture. This statement is so true. Ever since I 'unhitched' my thinking from pre-tribulational dispensationalism, the Bible has come together as a beautiful whole, which I was never able to see before Darby's veil, and Scofield's veil was removed. Thank you.
Amen brother.
So true 🙌🏻
Same here
Amen...Well said ..📖🌷
I'm also actually very thankful for this so easily seen divide we've had The last couple years. I grew up in the nineties and early 2000 which by common grace standards was a better time but I think that's when we were our most confused and many people simply didn't see it. The last decade really trimmed the fat away from the church and praise God for that.
Wonderful! devotion to God is devotion to His Word!
This also starts with folks believing Jesus is their Savior but not their Lord. So it's like you can be saved and still do whatever.
Truth, thank you
Set lighting is better this video, was a little dark. Thank you for the work you put into this!!!
Thank you!
The backset is too dark
Joel, thank you so much for diving into this.
We have been seeing this idea gaining momentum lately.
The idea that if someone stands firm on solid theology and orthodox Biblical doctrine, that they are somehow linked together with the Pharisees.
It seems like being called a “Pharisee” immediately has the effect of shutting down the conversation because no one wants to be called a “Pharisee.”
More and more I am seeing this tactic being employed.
Stand up for truth and Biblical purity and automatically get labeled.
Excellent. Well put. Thank you for the clarity from The Word of God.
I have spent much of my Christian life fighting the sin of lust. It is great to know I am not sinning, according to stanley, I have a disability. My fight will go on because lust after a women not my wife is sin, period.
Dude - the new set - I get it - but how relaxed can you get??? 😀
Of course you're correct - Andy's been off-track for a long time, and this latest stuff is just a natural 'progression' to regression.
Love the new set and thank you so much for covering this. Sad when big names like this lead the church astray in their unbiblical teachings in order to be popular with the world and not offend anyone with the truth.
Solid video Joel 👍🏻
Very well said. Thank you Pastor for bringing this. We must pray that God will show him the error of his ways.
Good video. thanks for sharing this.
This channel is newer for me and found this helpful because I would hear current teachers and pastors being called out but did not get a "detailed explanation" for it being left with wondering why (although a few that I follow call out to warn and do a whole video on the false teaching which is helpful) I personally have not followed Andy Stanley but have enjoyed his Father's daily devotional readings via mail from the past. I am getting a much better understanding as to why he is being called out and rightly so. Thank you.
Nice studio, Joel! Thanks for making content that applies the Word to the world around us.
excellent, I need these basics. helpful and healthy leadership, thanks.
Excellent! Preach It! Amen!
I am still very much a theological layman, but I love this channel.
Thanks!
There have been others who have addressed this issue. Your take on this heresy is appreciated.
Thank you and God Bless.
Stealing "felt like a 'no, duh'". Perfect way to sum up a lot of things. Keep doing the Lord's work.
This has already been covered by a ton of great teachers online but it's always great to hear your take Pastor Joel. The new set up is looking great!
Thanks!
This is helping me a lot learning about Gods Love.
It’s totally a “no duh” to dismiss Andy Stanley however I am shocked (not sure why 🥴) at how many are ignorant and/or defend him…read your Bibles people!
Amen.
I appreciate the analogy of empathy. It seems to be a new buzz word. It never sounded biblical to me, but I couldn’t pin point exactly why. I did stumble on to your conversation. It may have been divine. 😊
Oh snap, I thought this was Matt Walsh 🤣🤣🤣
Joel: “I’m going to be brief”
30 minutes later. 😂
That. Was. Brief.
Can we Calvinists ever answer something briefly?
@@patrickc3419 the answer is no.
Good review
Wow you covered it thoroughly.It’s sin our and simple
Great explanation of Andy’s teaching calmly put up against the incredible word of God. I refer to Christ’s sermon on the mount when confronted with people saying they only have g*y thoughts but don’t act. It’s clear, ruminating on the sin is committing sin as well and must be repented of. Yes, such WERE some of you. I appreciate you’re treating your listeners like they have a brain in their head. Btw, Your new setup there is my dream home library look, nice👍. Blessings in Christ brother.
Very well explained.
Hopefully by the same token Joel will reconsider his stance in Calvinism.
The deconstruction of Andy Stanley
Yep.
Your postmillennialist Puritan strain aside, your evaluation of Andy Stanley is correct.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
Indeed.
“…OG listeners.” ❤
Can you do an episode on new covenant theology addressing what you believe the issues are within that framework
Yeah that needs to happen.
Right on. Just discovered your channel.
Glad you’re hear.
A gay person saying, "I can't change." is the equivalent of an addict saying, "I can't change.".
Furthermore, even if it were true, it doesn't mean that they have to have sex with other men or women.
And when people make that arguement, ask them, "So pedophiles can't change either? So they shouldn't be shamed or expected to change because they can't help who they're attracted to?"
I know many people that have struggled with same sex attraction and now they're married to the opposite sex and have children and even if they weren't, that doesn't mean they have to practice homosexuality. Why doesn't Andy urge them to remain single and celibate as Paul suggested??
💯
This would explain why Lauren Daigle could not come up with a decent answer to a question on the Ellen show about homosexuality.
Andy has revealed that he’s unsaved, and everything that has preceded his current statements is simply the result of his lack of faith trying to make space for him so he can still make money off of people when he becomes his authentic self
... Absolutely unsaved...he is still the "natural man" of 1 Corninthians 2:14. Goes to show that every single person needs to be "Born Again" into God's Kingdom. Being a Pastor's son doesn't give you a free pass. I am sure he's grieved his Father many times. 📖🙏
I think Andy is under Galatians 1:8-9, "anathema." . He's unhitched the OT and he's said that "the Bible says" doesn't work for adults anymore. He has a different Jesus and a different gospel. The beginning of the gospel is "repent." What is Jesus, what is the gospel, if not "according to the scriptures?"
By the way, a video of Stanley publicly saying these things is now out there on You Tube somewhere. So instead of three witness there are probably thousands now.
If homosexuality is tolerated, then fornication and adultery probably is too. And maybe in his own life. Sad.
It is. Small groups meet to drink.
If people are born sinners, isn't homosexuality the sin nature working itself out? Don't gays need a new heart with new desires like everyone else?
Yes
You nailed it when you said dispensationalism is part of the problem. Many in that system claim that adding repentance to the gospel message is essentially works based salvation. If there’s no repentance required, sure, you can be a “gay Christian” in Andy Stanley’s world. It’s a very hateful thing to do to hold back the truth from these people in light of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
Nothing is gained for one's viewpoint by running down the opposition. Dispensational belief does not omit repentance, not in my personal faith-----admittedly some have presented this with poor integrity. In the flesh we are not all the possessor of truth. Unbelief in the Lord Jesus Christ is the major problem.
Albeit Andy Stanley has "unbelief" issues.
I wonder what Andy would say to someone like Becket Cook? No way Stanley is born again.
I got the bell checked, but am not getting notices of your videos?!?! What thaaa?!
Yes, he is totally out of control. Something seems seriously wrong. He has gotten worse in a very short time.
Great video. Could you do a video teaching me how to argue against the shellfish argument
The standard 'shellfish' rebuttal is to follow Aquinas and split the Mosaic Law of the OT into civil, ceremonial and moral, with only the moral laws remaining applicable today. But it's hard to then argue sola scriptura from that position.
@Joel W. You’re sure there weren’t any flawed men interpreting scripture in the “original (orthodox) church”?
Thank you.
What I learned from this video is that when a homosexual is saved, he or she should no longer identify as being a homosexual even if he or she is still experiencing homosexual feelings. The identification aspect that is significant.
To expound, If one continues to identify as a homosexual, this probably means he or she is embodying homosexuality and not turning away and at least trying to flee from it. But, while the desire is continuing to remain after one repents of his/her homosexuality, then one is a new creature in Messiah and must identify as such (not as a gay christian in which no such thing is possible) prayerfully (with fasting) seeking the pulling down of that perverse stronghold in his/her life whuch can only be by the power of YHVH, in the name, Yeshua.
Is this an accurate understanding of the condition of a person who is feeling homosexual desires as he/she undergoes sanctification by the Holy Spirit?
What's up with the 'weirdage' usage of biblical appellations you are strange firing up this post for certain. Jesus Christ, God, etc. English would be nice. You think you are being more christiany with the 'yuhahuashuahashaoi' And such nonsense. SMH. Just... you are on a wrong path.
@Nicole Cb No problem you are let me be'd for certain I would explain why I have a problem with 'your' (all those with the hebrewing up the Titles of God.) synagogue of Satan phraseology is a problem and will get worse but ahh well....
@@IamGreatsword Thank you, sir; but I didnt realize you were interested in a discussion like that. I am, so please continue. And can you provide insight about why some people jump to the conclusion that I'm on the path of perdition for using YHVH and Yeshua, as I was accused of this by ministers of my church organization even though the head of our organization acknowledged the veracity of these names in a book he wrote which we were assigned to read.
@Nicole Cb Strawman Aside, I never said you are on a path to perdition, wrong yes but not perdition. Using the parlance of the today's Synagogue of Satan is problematic and can lead to compromise. Don't have time now but just a little response for your musing.
Also maybe your ministers might just be right about the ramifications as I've alluded to, not necessarily the words in Hebrew; Is it correct Hebrew though? Again little time, need to work.
Once again, loving the truth you're bringing, Joel. Andy is a beta who leads others into being beta and hell.
I literally have always said that he is the walking talking definition of a beta male (along with Justin Trudeau).
@@patrickc3419 Beta leaders = beta results.
@Patrick C Biden, Obama, The Pope, Rick Warren, Andy Stanley Trudeau too many others to name!
@Patrick C A real man loves God, does what is right and takes no bs.
@@jamiejay7633 Yep. And doesn’t look for reasons to keep his church closed indefinitely for a virus with a recovery rate of 99.6%.
He hates God.
Andy Stanley should get a new career as a magician using his sleight of hand skills on playing cards, not Scripture.
So Andy Stanley essentially says being crippled is sin. Does that mean war vets who've lost limbs in war sinned when their limbs were lost?
Pastor Joel, do you know of any reformed churches in the East Houston area?
Dispensationalism is NOT part of the problem!
Why doesn't his dad (Charles Stanley) put him in check?
I feel terrible for his dad. I grew up listening to his dad, not anymore, I hope his dad hasn’t drank the kool aide
It is interesting how people claim that it is their personal views of various doctrines are "the" foundation of biblical truth and if you don't believe what their personal understandings of these contested doctrines are that is the reason for sin in the lives of these people. The Theonomy folks claim that every ill comes from the fact that you don't believe the bible teaches this. To claim that a person who is a Dispensationalist or holds to a pre-mill. view is probably guilty of some of this stuff is ignorant and intellectually dishonest.
AMEN, Pastor Joel! But you don't need to justify why you make a video. Even though most of your regular listeners probably know that Stanley is heretical, your explanation helps us articulate that truth to others.
Any relationship advice for sons and daughters of parents that have that kind of ungodly worldview? Or is it even *possible* to have a healthy relationship with family members that have strayed so far from the truth and have been given over?
Be in continuous prayer for them, treat them respectfully, but firmly do not allow their views to corrupt yours or alter yours.
Woah ...he definitely needs to be removed, immediately. That's definitely not a Born Again believer in God's Kingdom. Soon he will be spouting more and more wicked stuff, just wait. Why would you take a stance against God. Because you're not of God. Very sad. 📖
It's funny when TH-camrs say "I didn't want to say anything about this" and then do it anyway,🙃
The Universe is held together by Law and Order. For a scientist, no greater honor can be bestowed upon him than to have a law named after him (I haven't achieved that yet, but hope springs eternal. :) ) We learn stuff by studying and discovering LAWS.....surprise!
Looking at the thumbnail I thought this was Matt Walsh for a minute.
1 Timothy 4:1 ( If a pastor starts preaching things that contradict scripture, find another church. )
I wanted to hear you out on this but your usual dispensational bashing had to come in.
You paint a caricature of dispensational theology in a straw man way.
Marcionic theology is clearly heretical and Stanley embraced it 3 years ago. Should have been disciplined three years ago.
Why would homosexuality be a 'disability ' and not other sins/abominations?
To "unhitch" from the Old Testament, you must also ignore the New Testament. According to II Timothy 3:16, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God". No, what Andy Stanley has actually done is to unhitch from God Himself; he is following in the footsteps of Satan.
'elders' are NOT above the law - when the Scriptures are taken to the extreme and they are not held accountable to the laws of their nation- something is seriously wrong - I've been living this and trying to have abuse spanning 25 years exposed- the 'elders' have been untouchable because of that Scripture - shameful - you're not above the law
Totally agree regarding regarding the error of Andy Stanley. Do not totally agree regarding empathy. Definition of empathy: noun, The ability to identify with or understand another's situation or feelings: synonym: pity.The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.the intellectual identification of the thoughts, feelings, or state of another person. I do not believe it is unBiblical to empathize with people that are going through troubles as long as it is not a situation due to sin. I would agree that we are not to empathize with people that are in an obvious sinful situation.
Joel I'm sure you have heard this before:
You look like MATT WALSH and sound like DAVE RUBIN. HAHA.
Complacency is equal to the sin of the perp, I think scripture backs this. Unhook from the ungodly and place your loyalty to God , not man.
The Apostle Paul strongly disagrees with you when he says: "4 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; [u]she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; [v]she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;
Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor;
For more numerous are the children of the desolate
Than of the one who has a husband.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”"
We cast out the first covenant because it was replaced with the new covenant.
Studio looks incredible!!!! Excellent explanation action of covenant theology near the beginning.
I don’t think same-sex temptation is a specific sin to be repented of, i’m with Douglas Wilson on this one. I think you may be falling into the trap many others in our circles have, which is to be as conservative as humanly possible with every issue.
Are there any other categories of sins that you would also say are already a specific sin during the temptation phase?
I think this problem because the doctrine of trinity are not well understood... The scripture in old testament is the word of God... Jesus are there together with the father and holy spirit when the old testament law are being spoke by the holy men at that time.... Please teach again to this generation the holy trinity.
If you think that dispensationalism is a cause for unhitching from God's law then you know nothing of dispensationalism. I'm reformed but also dispensational. I also believe that God's law still stands. I've never met a dispensationalist that justified homosexuality. You should rethink what you said about dispensationalism.
Andy Stanley forgot his business partner 😬.
Amen. Andy needs to repent.
I do disagree with you on one point, but I haven’t finished the video maybe there will be more, 😊. Jesus had to be tempted inwardly, by the fleshly. He was a man and that’s what humans do. He has to know our full experience. The flesh is what tempts us most of all in this fallen world. Temptation is not a sin. Even if He was tempted, He never sinned. It’s the thoughts or behaviors that follow after that are the sins, depending on the sin. Jesus had the fleshly temptations and it never went farther. He beat them and, because He did, we can use His power and beat them too.
Hmmmm.........on Old Testament law.....I think that was addressed at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) and Paul's many letters on that point. Otherwise, the bacon you had at breakfast is problematic, and you better not touch the BBQ ribs. On Andy Stanley......dead on target.
Let me fix the title of your video.
Andy Stanley: unconverted.
Has to have a very sad dad😥😡
Andy Stanley is not a Christian. That is why he has such a poor view of the Word of God.
Andy may be setting himself up to admit he is gay!
Yup. "Pastor" Stanley has a very low view of God and His word, and a high view of sin.
Sure, attach this heretic to dispensationalist. This makes no sense to say this leads to error. No, the Old Covenant is done. Moral law was before Moses. Yes, were under Love not law. Love is above law. That's why we don't live in sin. We don't steal, lie, harm others, etc.
Yeah I heard that too. Ridiculous.
Sir to disbelieve in your unbalanced view of Theonomy is not the straw that breaks the back theologically of every biblical doctrine that has more than one view.
It is absurd to link lattice around a balcony to the ordinances in the Bible.
Maybe Andy is gay?
Only commenting this because you are calling something a sin and are incorrect about the meaning of empathy and sympathy (respectfully.) Not that is a giant deal, but you are calling something a sin.
Empathy and sympathy are interchangeable words that swap meaning, depending on the field of expertise (it's really just two woke fields that mix it up [sociology; US based psychology]; because they have no appreciation for truth. Furthermore, they don't really swap meanings; the concept of empathy is erased, and you get good sympathy and bad sympathy.)
By the English language, you have it backwards. Sympathy is together feeling, empathy is emotion feeling. Per your example, if you were in the quicksand with them, that would be sympathy; thats TOGETHER. Empathy would be on the outside recognize the fear and situation they were in, and then hopefully assisting them because of understanding those feelings.
Empathy means you can understand what the other person is feeling, but don't necessarily share or agree with the feeling (if accurately using the word you dont NOT share the feeling, but that is a bit nuanced.) Sympathy is that you ALSO FEEL what they are feeling (ie you experience the same feeling). In short, empathy means you understand the feeling, sympathy means you share the feeling.
The issue here is if you sympathize with say a homosexual, it means you also feel the desire for men and the associated sin. If you empathize, it would indicate you understand the nature of their desire, but not necessarily desire it.
Jesus sympathizes with temptations, the mortal coil, or our humanity. Not the act of our various sins. In this way, he can sympathize (as he too experienced it) with our general experience. But this does mean his sympathize with a murderer, unless he too murdered. He could empathize, or understand them. But he could not sympathize with him on his murder. But he could on the temptation to sin.
Just google it. So empathy is a newer word. When the 1st English translation of the bible were arriving, sympathy meant both words. I would probably avoid using the terms.
M-W has a great entry on it, ill repost a quote from there:
"Empathy has become a fad word for sympathy, though it was adopted expressly to mean something different from sympathy: 'intellectual insight into another's emotional state without sharing in it.'
-John H. Dirckx, The Language of Medicine (2nd Ed.), 1993 "
Edit -
I'll add modern woke use of sympathy is feeling as or sharing experience. The reason this is "BAD" by their standards is you have to actually be in the quicksand with the other to share in that feeling/experience. So if you were a white male and say is sympathize with say the life of a black woman that would be seen as WRONG because HOW COULD YOU? You aren't in the quicksand. But you also agree with them on this because you reference Jesus expanding the nature of humanity, thus the ability to sympathize with it (as he has experienced it). I dont know if i agree but w/e.
The only empathy (or understanding without also experiencing) doesn't exist really under the woke conceptualization. What empathy is, 'putting yourself in another's shoes' (this part IS ACCURATE). We can understand how it would be real bad feeling to be in quicksand. However, it goes a step further and says if you dont agree with the person in the quicksand's view or narrative, you aren't empathizing because if you truly understood how they felt you would come to the same result they did. So lets say something led them to the quicksand. If you could truly understand how they felt, then you too would necessarily agree with them being in the quicksand.
This is all premised off of their experience and story being "valid".
Yes, i understand their perspective is dumb and clearly lacking,. So don't embrace it. All modern dictionaries still get sympathy and empathy correct.
@@CC-ii3ij The modern definition hasn't actually been reversed, what has been swapped is what is the "good" thing to do. Sympathy largely still means the same. It's simply not accepted that you ARE sympathetic, thus seen as negative. Rightly, they assess, how can you as a white man sympathize with the nature of being a black man. You cannot because you ARE NOT. Just like Jesus couldn't sympathize with a homosexual unless he was sexual attracted to men. That's the correct use of this word for over 100 years now. And still is.
There is an assertion that divides this understanding. Can you experience (be in the quicksand) without actually being in the sand yourself? Some would argue, you can FEEL the pain of another without needing to also experience the stimuli causing said pain. This is not Jeff's position. He lays out how Jesus came and experienced etc. If his position was one need not experience such things to know how they make you feel, he could argue that sympathy is possible without being "IN" the same situation. He did not. He could, although; im not saying Jeff is opposed to this, just he argued otherwise in this.
Empathy is still often used correctly even in modern use, but its extended as well. (have cake and eat it to).
'Put yourself in another person's shoes." This is an accurate way of understanding empathy. Its the next step that is false. This is a means of how we can project and or mirror our understanding of how another is feeling. However, the fork taken is the last 30 years was if you then didn't agree with said [insert victim narrative] then you just were not empathetic. Because had you placed yourself in their shoes, you wouldn't disagree with their desires or behavior. But that's just a baseless claim.
In embracing this narrative, Jeff is supporting their claim. I doubt he recognizes this. But i don't care. A quick dictionary search would have shown him he has it backwards. And to be clear he has it backwards because these people narratives are sympathy = u are bad (not for the reasons Jeff understands) and empathy = you agree with us (not for the reasons Jeff understands) but as such he just was like well they are wrong therefore... And maybe it was another pastor that made this mistake, as he is referencing Doug a bit, but still doesn't matter.
If you go look up the definitions, its clear i am accurate. If you go look up the definitions from the woke side that only has two definition of sympathy, one acceptable (which they call empathy) and one not (old sympathy). You'll find neither match Jeff's positions of what sympathy and empathy are. Because Jeff's definition of empathy is old sympathy, and his definition of sympathy is old empathy. But thats not the current usage for EITHER. So the question is why even capitulate to how they perfer one over the other, you don't agree with any of it anyway. Why not just get it right... more so if you are going to call something a SIN.
"Sadly, you dictionary from 1993 is now obsolete."
No, that was a quote from a modern dictionary about how at this time people are misusing empathy. All the major modern dictionaries actually define sympathy and empathy correctly, you could have just goggled that ... As could have Jeff before mislabeling a sin (which again isn't a small thing).
"Sadly, in our depraved culture, Modern words have no meaning, so we must define our terms clearly."
We do need to be careful and this we should get these word correct (at least when we are going to call one a sin). And that was my point. I didn't say Jeff's teaching was wrong, just his what he called Sin was mislabeled (which is germane). And i am correct. And this inaccuracy will lead to confusion, as it has for Jeff.
Andy Stanley didn't unhitch from the Old Testament. Stanley has explained himself several times. You need to listen before speaking
Then why does he keep defending the sin of homosexuality!??
Those were Andy Stanley's own words.
@@dumlittlebunnycontact1274 it does appear that way. Homosexuality is sinful. Even though Jesus did not push away or kick out any sinners, but called them to assemble to hear the preaching and teaching, Jesus called them to repent. Jesus allowed a practicing thief to serve on His ministry team in Judas. Granted, thievery and homosexuality are not the same. I can empathize with Stanley who sees these people mingled more and more throughout the families in the church. Stanley admits he knows the clobber verses which is alluding to people who cover their hate with scripture like Jonah. I agree that Stanley should call homosexuality sin and make the call to repentance. It appears Stanley is not confronting and rebuking enough. Known fornication should disqualify from serving positions.... sounds reasonable on its face, however, how many servers in other churches have fornicate in the last year? Is it most of them? How do you police that? Perhaps you only deal with sin that is public... ??? What about chemically induced homosexuality like Atrizene in the water that makes frogs gay? And the military has a gay bomb.... and estrogen monikers in plastic containers make boys effeminate...chemically. What do you do with gay people that don't appear to have a choice, but want to worship God? Do we make them outcasts? Is there any hope for them? What about the covid vaccine that changes your DNA and genes which manufactures say is "software"? This appears to be transhumanism by stealth...
Tricking people to merge with computers is a coming problem
At what point ate they no longer human? Do you kick them out too? The devil is at work here, and the issues become more complicated and the lines become blurred by biological and chemical warfare. What would Jesus do for a chemically emasculated Male? Or a chemically induced himosexual where it's not their choice anymore? These are tough questions that I used to think were black and white. The devil is literally trying to hack our minds and literally control our desires according to Yuval Noah Harari of the World Economic forum. It's no joke. It's real and they plan to implement on a large scale. I think Stanley should relay the message of God clearly and let the chips fall where they will. I predict every church will face this more and more.... tough times are here
@@sonnyh9774 LMAO! The frogs have not been turned gay. No gay bombs exist. I think you need to take a wee break from Alex Jones and the like...
@@aallen5256 the military approved the project and millions was given to develop it, however, the Pentagon is silent on the matter other than to say they don't have it. So, obviously you believe whatever the govt says and since you believe the govt would never do anything corrupt ... you're probably right... wink wink.
A 30 second google search will produce numerous scientific articles about chemicals emasculation of frogs and turning them into females.... Berkeley, science daily, scientific american, etc...
Maybe you should watch alex Jones more and you'll find yourself better informed. He's been proven right again and again just as in this case with your misinformation
... probably because of your news sources that spew propaganda. Be a Berean and don't trust the fox guarding the hen house.
Not sure why people are surprised…Andy didn’t suddenly ‘go woke’…he’s been sub biblical for ages, if not for his entire ministry…perhaps he and Abraham Piper will start a new ‘church’ together…
Im not sure I see how "desires" are necessarily a sin if temptation is not a sin. Certainly lust is sinful, but extends to heterosexual lust as well. Would that not be the same as a celibate bachelor having "desires" that he denies himself to follow Christ? Is a drug addict that denies their desire to use sinning? We could extrapolate that to the desire to eat too much (gluttony). Our flesh is nothing but sinful desire, that is why our Spirit wars with the flesh.
Certainly, God gives us a new heart, and new desires, and sanctifies us, but if all our desires were pure, we would never sin.
Gal 5:16 "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do"
James 1"13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."
This would seem to indicate desire precedes sin.
@ Aaron Frampton
"Certainly lust is sinful"
It depends what we lust after.
If a man lusts after another man's wife , lust is sinful because the woman belongs to another man , not to him . But if he desires HIS own wife , she is his , so it's not forbidden. His desire is then legitimate and not sinful.
Eve lusted after the forbidden tree , so it was sinful but what if she had lusted after the tree of life ? This tree was not forbidden , so her lust would not have been sinful.
Ahab lusted after Naboth's vineyard and wanted to have it . His lust was sinful because he coveted his neighbour's belongings. But what if he had just lusted after a vineyard that belonged to no one and got it ? Would his lust have been sinful ?
I hate it how the church focuses on "lust" (and obsesses over that ) attached to no particular context . It makes no sense to me.