Yes, the Menagerie was what I was talking about in a previous comment, being the storyline that some don't like. Not my favorite but I liked it. The previous Daughter Heir to Andor, Tigraine, ran away. You should be learning more about her in the next book, I think. Also, you're not that far wrong about Moiraine, only she 's from Cairhien, like you said. 😊 You'll find more about that in a future book, as well.
I love Moiraine, obviously big developments for her in this book that I will say I saw coming but still loved. Will have to try to remember the name Tigraine!
Totally agree about the stupid circus side story nonsense; it was really the only knock on this book imo. I loved the battle to save Cairhien (some super good Matt stuff there) and the subsequent Cairhien political situation - though I know you've said before politics and the Game of Houses stuff isn't your thing. Still... as Rand becomes more and more powerful and the de facto leader of various lands and peoples, politics is inevitable, and his need to be a good political leader who can handle that side of things is as important as him being a good military leader or a super powerful channeler. The Salidar/Rebel Aes Sedai chapters were great as well. A ton of good intrigue with Siuan Sanche (love her despite her constant fisherman expressions), the politics of the rebel camp, and certainly the sneaky Moghedien stuff. The way they found her out and got her in the end was fantastic! Finally, I too have a soft spot in my heart for Asmodean. I mean, I get it, he's really out for himself and a reluctant teacher with kind of a nihilistic attitude, but he grows on you! There's a scene, I think it's in this book, where he and Rand are talking about what ifs, like asking why he became a forsaken, would he change it if he could, maybe this is his opportunity to redeem his soul, etc... There's a brief moment where he seems to really consider it, or sort of wishingly view the chance from afar, before dismissing it. It's like a thief on the cross question; despite being evil for so long and pledging your soul to the Dark One, could you repent and be saved right before death? Or as the Whitecloaks would say, "No man can walk so long in the shadow that he cannot return to the light!" I swear Jordan ripped that from the Bible. Oh... one more thing. Balefire is super interesting, but also kind of weird. I don't think I heard you talk much about it so far. I mean, there's the scene with Matt and the darkhound drool, which I think is at the beginning of this book but might have been in The Shadow Rising, and now the big scene with Rahvin and the balefire. Thoughts on the strange time-altering/reality-altering aspect of it?
We talked a bit about Balefire in the latest spoiler show, and honestly thoughts are mixed on it. It's enabled Jordan to have 3 fakeout deaths in this book, and I'm not a huge fan of those. I think the implications and possibilities for it are a bit *too* big. Like what problem now is there that cannot be solved by juicing Rand up and doing Balefire? Also I love politics in books, I just thought Jordan didn't do a good job with them in Great Hunt. He's better at it now, but it still feels a bit like he via Rand has an overall disdain for political people.
@@SamHarrison2099 I agree with the fake out deaths. They happened so quickly that they had no real impact and then they were ‘poof’ just back. I really enjoy the whole Salidar plot line tho so that saved this book for me
Haha the circus plot is controversial. Minor spoilers for this book: * * I did find the Valan Luca flirting with Nynaeve (and, inadvertently or subconsciously, the reverse) humorous. My fav scene in the book, however, was Rand reading Moiraine’s letter after the doorway ter’angreal/Lanfear moment, followed by the Maidens threatening to “wake from the dream” as a response to the dishonor Rand had visited on them. I also loved the Mat/Melindhra relationship and reveal, the Nynaeve vs. Moghedien rematch, and the whole Rand/Aviendha dynamic.
Yes I heartily agree on all points. I hope Valan Luca becomes incredibly important, at Rand's side leading a charge of elephants in the Last Battle. That would justify the amount of screen time he got.
@@SamHarrison2099 Lol. You mean a s’redit charge? RAFO to see Valan Luca’s fate. (In case you’ve never seen this, it means “read and find out,” Robert Jordan’s favorite response to pesky fan questions.)
Spoilers for Fires of Heaven . . . . . . . . A lot of Nyneave's growth and for that matter her shrinking back can be linked directly to her relationship with Egwene. In previous books, she still viewed herself as Egwene's superior and a ton of the conflict was Egwene rebelling against that. This is the first book where Nyneave has been forced to view Egwene as at the least an equal and ultimately her superior. This was a major change for her and part of why I think her characterization changed so much this book.
@@SamHarrison2099 I have a bit of a love hate relationship with Egwene. I did not like her actions this book, especially in regards to Nyneave. Viewed them as extremely selfish even if Nyneave did need to grow a bit. Egwene's reasons were purely CYA :P
Congratulations Sam!
Thank you!!
Congratulations on the baby!
Thank you so much 😀
Yes, the Menagerie was what I was talking about in a previous comment, being the storyline that some don't like. Not my favorite but I liked it.
The previous Daughter Heir to Andor, Tigraine, ran away. You should be learning more about her in the next book, I think. Also, you're not that far wrong about Moiraine, only she 's from Cairhien, like you said. 😊 You'll find more about that in a future book, as well.
I love Moiraine, obviously big developments for her in this book that I will say I saw coming but still loved. Will have to try to remember the name Tigraine!
Totally agree about the stupid circus side story nonsense; it was really the only knock on this book imo. I loved the battle to save Cairhien (some super good Matt stuff there) and the subsequent Cairhien political situation - though I know you've said before politics and the Game of Houses stuff isn't your thing. Still... as Rand becomes more and more powerful and the de facto leader of various lands and peoples, politics is inevitable, and his need to be a good political leader who can handle that side of things is as important as him being a good military leader or a super powerful channeler.
The Salidar/Rebel Aes Sedai chapters were great as well. A ton of good intrigue with Siuan Sanche (love her despite her constant fisherman expressions), the politics of the rebel camp, and certainly the sneaky Moghedien stuff. The way they found her out and got her in the end was fantastic!
Finally, I too have a soft spot in my heart for Asmodean. I mean, I get it, he's really out for himself and a reluctant teacher with kind of a nihilistic attitude, but he grows on you! There's a scene, I think it's in this book, where he and Rand are talking about what ifs, like asking why he became a forsaken, would he change it if he could, maybe this is his opportunity to redeem his soul, etc... There's a brief moment where he seems to really consider it, or sort of wishingly view the chance from afar, before dismissing it. It's like a thief on the cross question; despite being evil for so long and pledging your soul to the Dark One, could you repent and be saved right before death? Or as the Whitecloaks would say, "No man can walk so long in the shadow that he cannot return to the light!" I swear Jordan ripped that from the Bible.
Oh... one more thing. Balefire is super interesting, but also kind of weird. I don't think I heard you talk much about it so far. I mean, there's the scene with Matt and the darkhound drool, which I think is at the beginning of this book but might have been in The Shadow Rising, and now the big scene with Rahvin and the balefire. Thoughts on the strange time-altering/reality-altering aspect of it?
We talked a bit about Balefire in the latest spoiler show, and honestly thoughts are mixed on it. It's enabled Jordan to have 3 fakeout deaths in this book, and I'm not a huge fan of those. I think the implications and possibilities for it are a bit *too* big. Like what problem now is there that cannot be solved by juicing Rand up and doing Balefire?
Also I love politics in books, I just thought Jordan didn't do a good job with them in Great Hunt. He's better at it now, but it still feels a bit like he via Rand has an overall disdain for political people.
@@SamHarrison2099 I agree with the fake out deaths. They happened so quickly that they had no real impact and then they were ‘poof’ just back. I really enjoy the whole Salidar plot line tho so that saved this book for me
@@KJWohsBookReviews overall the book was excellent, and despite my misgivings about Balefire, it is very cool!
Haha the circus plot is controversial. Minor spoilers for this book:
*
*
I did find the Valan Luca flirting with Nynaeve (and, inadvertently or subconsciously, the reverse) humorous. My fav scene in the book, however, was Rand reading Moiraine’s letter after the doorway ter’angreal/Lanfear moment, followed by the Maidens threatening to “wake from the dream” as a response to the dishonor Rand had visited on them. I also loved the Mat/Melindhra relationship and reveal, the Nynaeve vs. Moghedien rematch, and the whole Rand/Aviendha dynamic.
Yes I heartily agree on all points. I hope Valan Luca becomes incredibly important, at Rand's side leading a charge of elephants in the Last Battle. That would justify the amount of screen time he got.
@@SamHarrison2099 Lol. You mean a s’redit charge? RAFO to see Valan Luca’s fate. (In case you’ve never seen this, it means “read and find out,” Robert Jordan’s favorite response to pesky fan questions.)
Spoilers for Fires of Heaven
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A lot of Nyneave's growth and for that matter her shrinking back can be linked directly to her relationship with Egwene. In previous books, she still viewed herself as Egwene's superior and a ton of the conflict was Egwene rebelling against that. This is the first book where Nyneave has been forced to view Egwene as at the least an equal and ultimately her superior. This was a major change for her and part of why I think her characterization changed so much this book.
Yeah it all makes sense from that POV, but I just wasn't a huge fan!
@@SamHarrison2099 I have a bit of a love hate relationship with Egwene. I did not like her actions this book, especially in regards to Nyneave. Viewed them as extremely selfish even if Nyneave did need to grow a bit. Egwene's reasons were purely CYA :P
The menagerie is the slog of this series. I found this book to be great but man is that plot point awful
A lot of the side stuff for Jordan feels like it's important, but this really felt like a side quest.